Jim Woodward interview
Item
Title
eng
Jim Woodward interview
Creator
eng
Woodward III, O.J.
eng
Tibbet, Colby
Relation
eng
Woodward Family Collection
Coverage
eng
California State University, Fresno
Date
eng
4/9/2015
Format
eng
Microsoft Word 2013 document, 27 pages
Identifier
eng
SCMS_wwfc_00003
extracted text
>> Colby Tibbet: So, first and foremost, can we get your name and your
relation to the campus?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. I'm Jim Woodward. My full name is O. James
Woodward III. And that's just to keep identification straightforward
within the family more than anything.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, we're going to start with your great grandfather,
Oscar James Woodward, just more of like an oral history of your family.
Can you talk about the -- your great grandfather in terms of his early
years before Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. My great grandfather and mother came in the
late 1870s, to Fresno from Clinton, Illinois, via Phoenix, Arizona
actually. And his main interests were in real estate, and in financial
issues and so forth. But, that's when it all started in terms of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you mentioned you want to talk about his
business partner, Jacob Vogel, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: You got me there, because ->> Colby Tibbet: And then so, he was in banking? I’m imagining, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Yes.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: He -- My great grandfather along with a couple of others
started one of the very first banks in Fresno, the First National Bank of
Fresno, and from there, it eventually was merged into Bank of Italy,
which of course later became the Bank of America. And he was actually on
the board of the Bank of America when he passed away in 1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: And so, his reasons and goals for Fresno can you -- can
you touch on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well -- And again, in those days, the very beginning of
Fresno really in many ways, there wasn't much in terms of large numbers,
but he was very interested in the development of the real estate
particularly as well as I say the financing area. And he unfortunately
lost his wife, Anna in the late 1919 I believe it was. And in fact
there's a fountain in her memory that's in the Fresno County Courthouse-park and which my aunt, Atha Woodward O'Connor actually designed in her
memory in 1919. But, I as mentioned, he didn't actually pass away until
1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned a little bit about his influence in the
community, can you elaborate a little bit more about that like how it
started and, you know, just how it grew?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, of course, this is all hearsay from a standpoint
that I was fortunate enough when I returned to Fresno after law school in
the mid '60s there were still a number of individuals here who I've met
who had done business with my great grandfather. So, that was kind of fun
for me. And apparently, he was very involved in the community and, of
course, in financing much of what was going on which also developed other
relationships. So, as I say, he primarily focused on the real estate and
the banking business.
>> Colby Tibbet: Besides Fresno he talks – he mentioned a little bit
about his international travels and the things that he did outside of
Fresno. Can you-- can you touch up on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, all I know, I know he did travel quite a bit and
he probably, I suspect had a little more flexibility because again, his
wife had passed away, you know, quite early, early on. But, he -- as I
say actually passed away just about 3 months after I was born. So, I
didn't have much of a chance to have much dialogue although he apparently
did dictate if you will in those days what my name would be. So, that's
how it ended up with the third.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then so, we're going to jump to your grandfather?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely.
>> Colby Tibbet: Roy J. Woodward->> Camera Operator: Pause it really quick.
>> Colby Tibbet: So we’re moved to your grandfather Roy J. Woodward, can
you talk a little bit about him and in terms his role in Fresno or in
California?
>> Jim Woodward: Oh sure. Absolutely. What I might start with is my great
grandparents had actually four children. One passed away at birth
actually, just very shortly after birth, but there were three others, two
boys and one girl. And that was when my grandfather, who we'll talk a
little more about. My great uncle who we shall also talk about who was
Ralph Woodward who was primarily responsible for Woodward Park. And then
also, a girl by the name of Abbie Woodward Parker who lived most of her
life outside of Fresno in New York and San Francisco for whatever reason,
I'm not exactly certain. But, my grandfather was an avid reader and
really enjoyed books, had quite an extensive collection and a library,
actually in his own home. And he was also a business partner with his
brother, Ralph Woodward in the farm implement business for a number of
years as well. And again, also interested in real estate and development
and that type of thing. My grandfather passed away in 1940, so I recall
him but not in great detail. And that was the reason actually my own
family moved back in 1940 from the bay area to Fresno. But, he was known
and at least of all the accounts that I received is as a very gentle,
interesting, you know, man who was really more interested in areas
outside of business than necessarily strictly focused on business as I
believed my great grandfather, his father was pretty focused on the
business world.
>> Colby Tibbet: Next, talk about a little bit about his interest in art
and literary things, can you talk a little bit about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, the -- As I say, he had an extensive library, and
part of that was a history of California. And that particular collection
was actually later, it was formally given to the grandchildren, there are
five grandchildren of which I was one. And our parents determined that
that would be a good special collection for the Madden Library at the
time. And so, my father who was close to Henry Madden actually made this
gift on our behalf as being the first special collection in the Special
Collection Library at Fresno State.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned your great uncle in terms of the
establishment of Woodward Park? Can you elaborate or reflect a little bit
more on him?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. He was a very interesting gentleman who I did
get to know quite well because he didn't pass away until I believe in the
'60s. And I actually spent quite a bit of time with him. He was an avid
sportsman, fisherman and a hunter and so forth. And he initially thought
it would be a great idea to have a bird sanctuary in Fresno. And which
would probably approximate 50 acres or so -- or so -- approximately. And
some people around him including my own dad convinced him that a more
general open and larger public park would be even more beneficial to the
city. And so, ultimately he left his -- essentially his entire estate for
that purpose. And so rather than just have a bird sanctuary of which a
part of the park still is that approximately 50 acres. But we were able
to add another, initially another 150 acres and then later another 50
acres or more. So, it's over 300 acres now. And there's a lot of history
of course around the development of that. And it took a lot, a lot of
individuals after his death to make that occur. And I think it's
important because particularly the city parks and recreation director
Howard Homan was a catalyst in a very important part of making that
happen and turned out to what -- what has been a very successful
obviously a project for the City of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit more about your
grandfather Roy J. Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Again as I mentioned, he was an avid reader and
apparently a very -- very quiet and -- person who -- who has focused on
family a lot as well as others. Now, he had, he had two children. One, my
father and one, a girl by the named of Atha Woodward O'Connor who I
previously mentioned had designed the memorial, the Anna Woodward
Memorial Fountain that's down in our courthouse park. But, my father
settled in Fresno after going to Berkeley and to Harvard and so forth and
came back and lived his whole life here. My aunt, rather took a little
different turn and settled in the Bay Area. So, she was close of course,
but she lived most of her life in the Bay Area although she did live a
short time here. And she had -- they had three children. And then my dad
actually had four of which I was the second oldest son and the only boy,
so I had three sisters and, but most of the family eventually moved out.
At most, my sisters are all living out of the area, so I'm here -- but we
do have seven grandchildren in the area, so we're still -- still hanging
around.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, between your grandchildren, you're the only one that
primarily stayed in Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: That's actually correct. Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms your uncle. Can you -- in terms of your
great uncle Ralph, can you talk a little bit more about the park and its
development and its history in regards to the city?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Surely. Well, he passed, passed away in the
early '60s I recall and the park started to actually be developed in the
mid '60s about the time I actually came out of law school. And so I was
around for a certain portion of that. And as I mentioned earlier, Howard
Homan played a big role. Another person locally who played a large role
was Lewis S. Eaton. And the Eatons, as many know with the family that
founded the Guarantee Savings and Loan and they happened also be
neighbors of ours for a number of years. And my father and Lew Eaton did
a number of projects, local projects together, not the least of which it
was forming the regional -- Fresno Regional Foundation as well as many
other projects. And I even eventually later worked with Lew Eaton at
Guaranteed for a number of years and in different ways. But Lew was
appointed as a successor trustee. He was not an original trustee, but he
was appointed a year or so after the process began for establishing the
park. And what turned out to be very, very fortuitous and helpful was
that at the time, they were prepared to or preparing to place the park
out on Belmont on -- in east Fresno. And he didn't think that was the
best of ideas. So, they began focusing more on the north where the growth
of course was occurring. And just by chance, he -- at that time he was
President of the U.S. Savings and Loan League and -- which was happened
to be headquartered in New York. And also, the owners of the property
that was acquired was Santa Monica Land Company which is also
headquartered in New York. And so, after a number of visits, he was able
to convince them to -- can sell the land for this purpose. And that was
obviously a very important and key part of the whole establishment of the
park. The park, originally, a lot of -- many people don't recall or
weren't here to see that that was absolutely bare land. I mean, it was -and pretty flat too, but totally bare out there. So, the -- another
fortuitous thing was that the City of Fresno, and I still believe does
have a tree farm. So, almost instantaneously, they were able to establish
a significant presence as a park immediately rather than waiting, as we
know for some of those types of trees to take a very long time to grow.
So, that was another big, big, step among others. About that time -- well
at that time, interest arouse to establish a Japanese garden. So, through
a number of people including my dad and Lew Eaton and others this -- the
Shinzen Garden -- Friendship Garden was established and has been a very,
I think significant addition to the park. It has -- continues to have
challenges of course with -- if not, just the water situation these days,
but also the maintenance frankly and with the -- trying to work with the
City of Fresno and so forth. And that's been quite challenging but a good
thing has happened just recently where they've acquired a bonsai
collection from the Clark Museum down in Hanford. And it's very
significant and they're working right now on another section for -really of great addition to the park. The park as I mentioned was
originally conceived as a bird sanctuary more than anything and -- But
with the idea that with the other space that it would be primarily a
passive park. One for families and other events and gatherings, but not
overrun with too many amusements and too many destinations. So, my only
concern and my only involvement really has been to try to remind everyone
about that occasionally that if you get too many destinations, you
necessarily interfere with the passive use which I think could be very
unfortunate. And particularly with the amount of use it gets at -- on
holidays and so forth the cars are backed up quite ways. And I think that
need to be always -- that is to -- the use needs to be protected for its
initial and its best purpose. And sometimes even though they might have
good motives, these other events -- for example, the amphitheater which I
participated in frankly and went through Rotary to establish but on a
limited scale. And at times, they wanted to make that much more than it
is now. And there again, I think personally it would be a mistake.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that's -- because it's so extremely unique to Fresno
because there's not many places like that and a very passive experience,
correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And with noise or others even at one time
for a short period, they had a light show which was fascinating in the
holidays and it was great. But think about -- so, they had a lot of wires
strung around there and think of not only the kids, but people walking
but also the number of running events that the cross countries which
again I think is it's a great purpose, you know, use. And -- But you kind
of, you kind of have to manage these things sometime so that you get -the end result is what you want and not something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you -- a little question about the reasoning before
the development why they wanted to go towards Belmont, towards that area.
Can you -- do you know the reason why--the logic behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: You know, I was not a party, you know, to it. And I
really don't know specifically. It could well have been a cost factor at
the time. That's certainly possible. Maybe they were concerned and of
course which it is. The river is a barrier going north to some degree,
but we also know we still have a lot of development left out north that - and so there's still plenty of room. And I think, you know, it also
shows -- it's been 50 something years, 60 I guess. But since it all
started and we still have quite a bit of space and, of course, the need
it's ideally located as things turned out because again there's so many
people that just from their homes they tell me. I mean, they take their
bikes, or walk or whatever. And so that's really gratifying. I mean, it's
-- to me it's one of our best examples of doing something right. And some
of it by accident, no doubt, but at least we got -- we did get a good
result.
>> Colby Tibbet: Do you think that foresight of moving it north is one of
the primary reasons for its success? I mean just the location and the
idea of everything moving north?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, if you think
about it too in terms of travel and transportation and people going north
or south, if it were too far east -- I mean particularly going north you
add quite a bit of travel time, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think again,
it just it's a lot of different elements, but it's again it turned out to
be a good choice.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you said -- you mentioned that it was flat
previously. So->> Jim Woodward: Yup. Yup.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- they had to dig, you know->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- there is hills and->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- with the road works. I mean, do you know a little bit
about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I -- what I recall is, is two small children at
that time and I would take them out with these little carts so that, you
know, this -- what the -- what's the derby they used to have, a little->> Colby Tibbet: Boxcar.
>> Jim Woodward: -- boxcar deals. And we made those. And I remember that- again, making these undulations and so forth which was great for that,
for that use. But, they did have to move, move a lot of dirt. And as I
say, it was absolutely barren. There were certainly no trees. That's for
sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: Excellent. Can you talk a little bit about the history
and just a little bit about your father?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. He went by his initials -- he went by OJ before
OJ became infamous and had -- and there are a lot of stories about that.
But he went by OJ and he was the second of course because his grandfather
was still alive but his father actually wasn't OJ. So -- But he went to
Berkeley and then later to Harvard Business School and he came back to
Fresno in 1940 when his father died and stayed there ever since. And was
primarily involved in real estate development, property management as I
called it then, although many people didn't really know the terminology
or understand it much, but he devoted in his -- particularly his mid and
later years probably close to two-thirds of his time, his actual physical
time on projects, on non-profits. And he was very involved and started a
number of different organizations. He was involved with the art museum,
which was then known as the Art Center when they moved from downtown,
from the Vanderberg Home out to where they are now on Clinton known as,
of course, the Fresno Art Museum, which is much different and certainly
has grown. But he focused a lot on cultural arts because he felt that
those were often ignored. People were generally more connected with
social or health issue problems rather than the cultural arts, so he
focused a lot on that. But he also became involved in a number of our
local nonprofits and started a number of them. He was the first president
of the SPCA. He was involved with the zoo in the early, early times. He
was involved in the swimming programs. My sister, Beverly my older sister
and I were started in competitive swimming when we were eight or nine
years old, which was a little unusual in those, days but we were involved
and so he got involved. And so, he started some of the first swimming
programs and competitive swimming programs. He was involved in -- again,
a lot of projects that are unknown. Probably one of his better known
projects was he put the committee together to raise the money and then
select the art for the mall art downtown which is of course under
discussion right now quite a bit as to its importance and so forth. But
that was a very successful project and brought art to our area, which we
hadn't seen before. But he always had a project going, the Fresno
Regional Foundation was his concept. And he brought Lew Eaton involved
immediately and they got that off the ground and that has gone through
considerable growth and to where now it's really serving the purpose that
he always thought that it could. But some of these projects of course
take longer than others and the Regional Foundation has taken a number of
years to build the assets and the base to provide the kind of purpose and
asset to this community that he had in mind certainly.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about what the Fresno Regional
Foundation is, what it does and when it first started?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. The Regional Foundation is known as the community
foundation of which now there are quite a few throughout the country.
Back then, there weren't, there weren't so many. And the history, the -of community foundations is generally it takes a rather large gift or
more to really get it off the ground, to give it substance and assets.
And that took quite a few years to be honest, quite a few years. Many of
us served throughout that. We had to use a voluntary executive director
for many years. And that is certainly not the case now nor in the last
several directors. But it -- what its purposes is, is to attempt not only
to encourage philanthropy at a broad base but to get involved in making
decisions on priorities for the community and where it's needed. And as I
say early on with limited assets, of course, you couldn't do as much, but
now and particularly with collaboration with such foundations such as the
Irvine Foundation, it's been an incredible asset and important to that
growth. But--And then the federal grants and so forth, they're -- The way
that the Regional Foundation works now and they have a board of course
that's community board as well as executive director staff of eight or
nine now and they attempt to do what I mentioned. And that is on a very
broad base encourage philanthropy, but then also participate in trying to
be sure that these funds go into the right place. And that can get pretty
challenging at times. And -- but it -- It's particularly attractive too
for what we call planned giving and that in terms of where people have
significant resources and assets. And upon their death want to leave them
for the benefit of the community. They may not have -- either have
sufficient over and above what they need for their family or they may not
have a large family. And the reason I think it's particularly beneficial
is because sometimes with the individual nonprofits, there isn't the
self-control when things get challenging to protect endowments from
invasion and not really furthering the purpose for which those funds were
given. And that for some of us is very disturbing. And we've had -- we've
seen and had our funds frankly taken from endowments that their
motivation may be correct but the result is not. And whereas when you
have a sense of third party entity with independent judgment, if the
original entity fails, they can look to the next best, then the closest
similar purpose and again, try to fulfill what that original donor had in
mind. And then that's I think just being -- ethical and to the purpose
but with the failure of some of our nonprofits through a very -- for
various reasons, sometimes this doesn't occur. And that's why I say the - And the regional foundation now, I mean it's broadened its
participation and we’re actually involved in four or five counties and
constantly building its assets. And through them also, a lot of people
don't know that it's not just a case of giving funds or assets to the
regional fund. You can put them with them for management and they will
again through donor advise funds as we call them and other ways, even
independent foundations but with their management can be sure again that
those assets are protected and go to the right place.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you with your grand or with your father besides,
you know the things that they worked with, can you talk a little bit
about like -- his like personal interests, or his hobbies or anything
like that?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Sure. He had many interests of course and that -in those days -- really early days for like myself being in this area-well, among other things there weren't the organized sports for kids that
we have today. It was pretty much hunting and fishing and being in the
mountains and that type of activity. And so, that's what we did. And even
when I was a youngster, I mean we -- in our neighborhoods, we had
football teams and all that but nothing organized like today, which is a
whole other issue. But, it's really organized. But his interests were
largely in that and in art as I mentioned in the cultural arts, he was -He actually did quite a bit of sculpturing and other types, wood working.
And we always had a shop at home and he had a lot of interests and he
would spend most of the summers and or good part of the summers and we
had a cabin up at Huntington Lake, which my grandparents built in the
late 1920s. I mean they actually had two cabins. They built it on the
side now where there are mostly cabins. But at that time, there was no
road, so the most -- all that material was brought by boat. And it took
quite a while to build that cabin, but it -- it's quite a cabin by the
time they got it through. But as I did, I mean we spent most of the
summers up there and it was a very active place. And as was all of
Huntington Lake and Lakeshore and even down in Shaver Lake, a lot of
that’s changed and I think to some degree personally that a lot -- that
it's been influenced by the organized sports for the kids during the
summers where they just don't have that flexibility in that time. They
have to focus and they have to go to these camps and it's just a
different -- a different environment. My father, as far as business was
as I say, you know, primarily focused on real estate and developing what
we call neighborhood shopping centers and that type, it's small
subdivisions, small -- but his real -- I think his real love focus was on
other things other than just the business part. He had many other
interests.
>> Colby Tibbet: We still have a couple more family members that I have
here. Particularly, Beatrice Denke Woodward and Nadine. Is there
anything you want to talk a little bit about them or your aunt Atha
Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Let me -- Yeah. Let me just think here what might be the
more ->> Colby Tibbet: Or anything that you want, or we can jump to anything,
other topics that you want to talk about it’s entirely up to you?
>> Jim Woodward: I'm just trying to think what -- what might make sense
in terms of again connecting at, you know, to -- and I don't know whether
we ought to -- I mean, as far as, you know, my own kids and all of that
we can leave ‘til next time because of just again to keep some -- some.
We’ve, we had the foundation on that list. I was trying to think what
else anything we had, and we had quite a bit with Lew.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, you want to talk a little bit more about Lew Eaton
and the things that he has done or?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. I could talk because he felt that -- that his
role, he told me a number of times because we spend a lot of time
together. All kinds of different ways, mountains, playing tennis, golf,
and all this stuff. But he thought that his role in changing the location
of that park was probably one of the most important things he --he ever
did. And then later, which I'll, I can get to next time, when he passed
away, I got a group together and we came up with the idea of the Lewis S.
Eaton trail, which was just perfect for his situation and the family
liked loved it and everything else. So -- But I think we can ->> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit about the Fulton Mall and
the role your family and your father had in regards to it?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. As I mentioned, he was very focused on cultural
arts and he was involved in the very early years of the -- what's now the
Art Museum and other groups. And one of his -- I think most interesting
projects and lasting projects, well hope it's lasting, was when the
Fulton Mall was being formed and the succeeds and the designs and so
forth. He came up with the idea of raising money to bring in some really
major art works. And not just from well-known artists but from local
artists as well. And so, he formed a committee. He came up with a
somewhat of a new way of raising that money by putting a minimum on what
your contribution could be because he knew he didn't have a lot of time
to get it together, but which worked successfully although was
challenging too. So, this small committee made up of some artists as well
as himself and community leaders went out. And I actually went along a
couple of times when they interviewed, particularly local artists in
terms of what they might be interested in in offering and believe me they
weren't offering them as donations but, but they were very interested in
the project. And so, of course, what eventually evolved was everything
from a Renoir of the washing woman to some local pieces like there's a
granite piece by Newt Russell who was local attorney and a very good
family friend, we went in the back country a number of times together
with his boys. And also then other artists, but trying to bring a balance
of appropriate art that would make the whole Fulton Mall, you know, a
special, a special place. And in those years, it was a very special
place. And when I know even myself when I was again, out of law school in
the '60s and early '70s at lunch time, was a lot of business that on the
mall at the lunch break -- But the whole environment of course was quite
different. And the -- As you can imagine, there were many different
opinions when it comes to art, anyone who's been involved with art
particularly in a business sense, you know, in a business office or law
firm, usually get a very -- a lot of discussion about art one way or the
other. And which is good. And I think that brought a lot of interest to
the mall when it was first established. And, of course, more recent years
there's been discussion of possibly completely redesigning, if not
eliminating not only the art but the configuration of the whole mall,
which is a whole story into itself. And there again, as many -- probably
as many opinions as a number of people you talk with, but I think for the
most part, everyone agrees that that was a major improvement and
contribution. It should be protected to the extent possible. And if there
other driving forces that require street configuration and so forth,
that's one thing, but I hope we we’re sensitive to these things. And I'm
sure we're making and try to be sure we're making an improvement and not
just a change.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is about also like maintaining and preserving that
art itself.
>> Jim Woodward: And that that -- and that's a very good point because
like so many different situations, it's the maintenance and continued
protection of these valuable assets that is important and yet is probably
sometimes the most difficult to find the support for. But I must say,
several years ago, there were several efforts and actually made and
completed in terms of protecting -- There was a former councilman and
others who saw the need and I was very impressed because they did do
that. And I don't think the exact location always is that critical, you
know, providing again, it makes sense and it helps guarantee that
protection that we're all concerned about.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then can you talk a little bit more about during
this time, a lot of the other things that your father was invested in in
terms of changing structurally or different things that he wanted to make
improvements upon.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I think I previously mentioned his interest in
the swimming area, competitive swimming and so forth. And then, as part
of that, he was the one -- and I believe pretty much individually who
went to the schools and to the administration and convince them to put
the first swimming pools in our high schools. And I mean that was the
first. And it was accomplished and received. I know many, many
compliments and later too about the one thing, though, that occurred in
that situation was at that time, the kids weren't playing any water polo.
We did -- I hardly knew the sport at that point. And so, as a result, all
the pools in the high schools actually were not built deep enough for
good water polo play. And I know because our sons played. And frankly, it
can be dangerous. And it was in one situation and the recent being --
players get leverage off the bottom of the pool and that creates a
different dynamic. And in one of our son's case, it created quite a few
stitches. So, it's -- again, one of those things that has now though been
pretty well corrected overall and it was great to see and it -- But I do
think it helped without doubt start and certainly supported the interest
in swimming, or competitive swimming and probably water polo because, you
know, many of these -- many kids, of course, didn't have pools at their
homes or didn't have access to that type of activity. So, I think he, you
know, I think my dad felt a lot of satisfaction in that particular
project, but he always seem to have a project under consideration at
least.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk -- Can you name some schools that, you
know, initially were changed local -- here locally.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I know Fresno High. And I mean I read and I know
at that time and again I don't recall the exact timing when Hoover and
Bullard came along, but, of course, back in that time for sure, Roosevelt
and Edison and Fresno High School along with, of course, Memorial but as
far as the Unified School District, there were just three or four. And -and then it -- but I believed in each case even -- well I know for a fact
that Bullard, and I think Hoover as well, for sure also were too shallow
and had to be changed. Of course, a lot of that has now been corrected.
But -- And those days too. The system was much smaller. I mean, you could
deal directly with the superintendent of schools. You didn't have quite
the challenges with as many voices and some things were simplified
without a question.
>> Colby Tibbet: The bureaucracy and just the ->> Jim Woodward: Nope. Nope. Joke. That's just reality today I think.
Right -- right now -- well, it's a pattern. I guess one of a number and I
guess some -- maybe I mean, some of it I did understand but in more
recent years, I've never -- I haven't understood why some of these very
large homes are being built whether it's by the builder or the person
that's paying the bill. I mean, given all of the challenges and even
aside from water and everything else, just utilities and the whole bit
and I don't care how much money you have. It's not where I'm at. I -- I
am interested now because I happen to be a pretty close friend of Leo
Wilson who's built an awful lot of homes. And we have a group that has
lunch most Fridays and so forth. And so, we have a lot of history and
background. But, you know, here's somebody who built the biggest homes
and with, you know, a lot of -- and some pretty expensive, a lot of
molding, a lot of -- and now, I mean he's -- his average home, you know,
is really pretty small. And he not building it that big, but now other
people are -- I don't mean that, but I mean that's been interesting to me
‘cause he got into -- out of the dominion and all of that, all that -he's the first one that did any of that. And I used to take him -- go
down with him to Orange County ‘cause I was down there for five years
with a large builder Kaiser-Aetna. And which we had all kinds of product,
different types of product. And at Warner Center particularly which is
Woodland Hills. I mean, we did everything from Blue Cross headquarters to
tennis clubs to -- just all kinds of things. And so, I mean I’ve seen a
lot of change and so forth. But of course, ground, you know what, a lot
of it comes back to what the price of ground is. And since it was cheap,
that's why you go out. I mean, you don't go up. I mean, it’s simple. I
mean, really that part. That's why in New York and San Francisco, you
know, you could pay so much for that little pad that should make more
sense. So that drives a lot of it. But, I guess I still in this last
cycle and I’m talking like about the last -- say five? Ten, ten years
maybe. But -- And the last down cycle, people still going out and
building these crazy -- And I know some of them --and they’re not large
families. I'm not talking about if you've got ->> Colby Tibbet: Six kids ->> Jim Woodward: Seven kids, five, you know, or something else. I mean I
have a boy with seven children. So, I mean, I know you know, and but they
don't need that in there, you know, but I just think it's kind of
interesting how that's changed.
>> Colby Tibbet: And there's influx too. So, it'll be some years where
that's really in high demand or popular. But then you see this decrease
in more of a minimal, you know, a smaller setting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well there's definitely been a separation between, you
know, and I'm sure you're aware of this, out by the park and all that
development versus Old Fig Garden and Fresno High and all that. I mean,
it's just two worlds. And for a lot of people, that's a good point. Who
come from particularly -- I don't know why I'm thinking of Southern
California because I'm not, but they're used to something more similar to
that. And so, it's obviously more comfortable, you know, including our,
you know, even some of our kids have, you know, that's - -Even though
they kind of like to be somewhere else but it -- that's where it works
best for them economically and other way. So, I don't know. You know,
it's Old Fig is a story into itself, you know? I mean, I could -- I think
we were talking about. I mean, I can go down Wilson and Wishon and
identify most of them, most of the names over the last 50 or 60 years.
>> Colby Tibbet: I lived on Wishon, I lived in a home from the 1930s and
there was ->> Jim Woodward: Between what street?
>> Colby Tibbet: Wishon and Harvard. So, it’s a little bit closer to the
Fresno High area.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And ->> Jim Woodward: Sure. I know it.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's interesting the history that you learn about your
home, but then you go a couple blocks east or west and that history could
just be nonexistent --
>> Jim Woodward: Well, that's another thing. I mean it's very, very
spotty and different thing. In fact, for a short time, I mean, I lived in
Old Fig for quite a while but then I lived down by Hamilton, right there
on Farris. You know, I went to Fresno High for a while. And -- but then,
of course, huge difference when Bullard came along and things started
going north again. I mean, that changed the dynamics but -- But there's
something about, you know, Old Fig, it's just surely kind of amazing I
think.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely its own little microcosm within itself
of Fresno, definitely.
>> Jim Woodward: And it's, you know, plus and minus, you know I mean, but
it's got a lot of history. It’s really what intrigues me like right
across of my grandparents, again, Roy and, you know, even in his home had
a true library. I mean, which I don't think were that common. But right
across from them was Gilbert Jertberg. And Gilbert, he's -- he has been
the highest court judge that we've ever had come from here, he's on the
Ninth Circuit in the federal system, but he was a very good friend of my
grandfather's and he had a lot of connections at Stanford. And in that
house, I mean people like Herbert Hoover, Earl Warren and all these
people. And I almost tried to bite it one time just because of all this
history, you know, but it took a lot of work. And so, Stuart Woolf which
did it. And he did a good job. And -- but I mean there is a lot of
history around and there's history everywhere. I mean -- but, it's kind
of fun to reflect, you know, to -- But in a general sense, I guess one of
the things would surprise me a little -- a little bit is that it's taken
so long, I mean even with the barrier of the river. You know, even if you
stay to this side and go on up to the dam and, you know, how long that's
taken to develop. I mean things have really pushed east, you know, but of
course, Clovis was out there to -- most of all their school system that
made a huge difference and no question, no question. I mean that had a
big influence for -- I think it still does. I don't know to the degree it
does but ->> Colby Tibbet: I remember, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago that
was a huge deal for a lot of parents and it's definitely ->> Jim Woodward: Huge.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely balanced out. It's definitely balanced
out. I think a little bit more in terms of Bullard and Edison and all
these other schools who really ->> Jim Woodward: And I think because they changed the schools, the
programs with Edison Computech and all of that got their act together and
I think you're right and, of course, Buchanan, you know, the
superintendent out there, I mean he -- big influence and it was new, it
was different, it was, you know, very progressive and very competent. You
know, so it was--but that had a lot.
>> Colby Tibbet: So before you saw that Eastern push, you really were
thinking it was all -- it's going to head all the way up to Friant.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, probably feeling,
but you know what's happening right now across the river, you know, in
Madera County. There are some like McCaffrey and Gunner and I mean all
these -- big chunks —>> Colby Tibbet: The Tesoro ->> Jim Woodward: And it's going to take -- of course water continues even
before this thing. I mean water's been a huge issue and should be. I
mean, I think you had to give somebody credit. I mean, they were ahead on
that one. They stayed ahead on that one and didn't let them, because I
know Yule [assumed spelling] and Ben Yule and others, you know, they've
been for 20, 30 years been trying to do a lot more up there. But they've
held them back because of the water issue. And so, you know, I think
that, you know, that makes sense, but it's a, you know, it's an
interesting challenge with all of the local politics and then you of
course you throw in a little corruption here and there and that always
gets everybody going like with that whole deal that -- what they call it
out there. They called it Clovis, I mean, but it really wasn't so much -What was that -- deal that Tatham -- Bill Tatham started. They're the
same, but anyway, they sent several people to jail. I mean, wasn’t a
small deal. I mean it was, you know, not that everybody wasn't doing it,
but they nailed quite a few people and that kind of changed that dynamic
a little.
>> Colby Tibbet: With your early life, maybe a little bit about your
childhood, where you were, where you lived and then kind of maybe move
transition into college, and early education.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I was actually born in Oakland, California
because my parents were living in the Bay Area at the time. My dad had
just come back from Harvard Business School and was working in San
Francisco. And so that was in the late 1930s. But in 1940, my grandfather
passed away and so we moved back to Fresno. And I was in Fresno schools
up through most of high school and then eventually went to UC Berkeley
for undergraduate and was there until 1958 when I did have to serve in
the military for just six months active duty, but in reserve -- in
reserves for a number of years thereafter. Upon completing that tour, if
you will, with the US army and I was involved in artillery and guided
missile school area and was at Fort Sill. Upon returning however, then I
worked for a short time with PG&E in San Francisco and some small
securities companies and -- But then entered Stanford Business School in
1959 and graduated in 1961. From there, I went back across the Bay, if
you will, to Berkeley for law school. And graduated from there in 1964
and returned to Fresno for a short time with a law firm and practiced
law. But within about a year, I was asked to join the legal staff for the
UC Regents. And that was again, you know, about 1966, which was a very
interesting time on the Berkeley campus as we recall. And also
interesting from the standpoint that Ronald Regan had just been elected
governor and was, of course, on the Board of Regents and there was quite
a difference of approach between the administration at that time at UC
and the Board of Regents. The Board of Regents at that time was composed
of some very well known individuals like Norton Simon and Dorothy
Chandler and Catherine Hearst and all names that most people recognized
at the time. But also pretty, pretty conservative philosophy whereas the
administration in many areas was quite different and of course it was -a lot of turmoil at that time with all that was going on on campus and so
forth. But I enjoyed that and learned a lot, I think about some of the
ramifications of the political scene and enjoyed it a lot. But in -after a couple years, I returned to Fresno and joined the law firm of -at that time. It was Gallagher, Baker, Manock, myself and Wanger. And of
course Ollie Wanger went on to be a federal court judge for many years
and now practices in Fresno. About 1972 or three, I decided I wanted to
diverse a little bit in terms of getting into the -- at least the
potential possibility of being more in management than just from legal
matters. And the -- So I joined the -- A firm by the name of Kaiser Aetna
which was a partnership between Kaiser Aluminum and Aetna Life Insurance.
It was worldwide actually, but headquartered in Oakland. And so I moved
to Newport Beach and within one year I was made the regional manager as
well as also able to do the legal work for that particular area and that
was very rewarding and interesting time. About five years after I joined
Kaiser Aetna, they determined that they were not particularly compatible
partners because Kaiser Aluminum of course was a manufacturing company
basically and tended to count the widgets at the end of the year. And
whereas Aetna understood the real estate area a little bit more and the
primary function of this company was real estate development and as I
say, throughout the world. When it became clear they were not going to
continue to exist, I of course began to think about other opportunities
and I was actually offered to be the first general council for the Irvine
Company in 1977. But unfortunately, the family was having some difficult,
some misunderstandings if you will, and so they could never quite get
that finalized in a shorter term. So I returned to Fresno which obviously
set my whole life again in a different -- a little bit, in a different
direction. And I came back and joined with First Savings and Loan which
was a local small savings and loan who'd been a client of mine and ours -earlier when I was in practice.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is this is in 1977 correct?
>> Jim Woodward: This is in 1977, correct. And so I was able to be both
an in-house corporate council, also have a private practice on the side
and do a certain amount of real estate development for them in terms of
joint ventures at that time. I continued to do that until -- for several
years and then, First Savings and Loan merged with Central Savings, which
was a fairly large S and L at that time headquartered in San Diego. And
so I almost moved down there, but I stayed here and continued in private
practice and so forth until about 1985, mid 80s, Lew Eaton, who was the
President and CEO of Guarantee Savings and Loan asked me to join them.
For several reasons and several capacities, one was to do some
reorganization of the company since it was growing very rapidly. And also
particularly to build a large headquarters for them, and to put a team
together to build this in which we did and we put -- and within nine
months we're ready to break ground, out actually directly across from
Woodward Park. And it was quite a -- it's a 30-acre project which three
buildings initially and then it would become eventually four -- four. And
about eight days before groundbreaking, in fact the wine glasses were
etched and everybody was ready to go. It was discovered that the Chief
Financial Officer for Guarantee Savings had placed us in a very
unfortunate position, financially and so that project had to be abandoned
and at that time, the company went in to a mode of looking again for a
merger, and to be sold because again of the risk involved, the management
and owners, and by that time Guarantee was a public company but it was
family-controlled in terms pretty much here in our area. So, eventually
there was a merger with Glendale Federal, which then later, after a
couple of steps became a part of Citibank actually and still is. So that
was kind of my history in terms of dealing particularly with the real
estate development, but then the financial end of it because I did stay
on with Glendale Federal for three and a half years and was on their
executive committee, in loan committees and so forth. But because -- just
geographically it became a little bit of a challenge and because we did
have operations in Florida and the State of Washington as well as
California and so forth. And so about that time, again needed to
transition and look for a different activity and I returned to private
practice in this area and ->> Colby Tibbet: Can you explain elaborate why you made that decision?
What was the -- your motives or your ideas behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, what was happening essentially was the financial
institutions, which I've been involved with primarily S and L’s during
from -- for quite a few years there. There was a series of mergers and it
was a bunch of transitional period and most of those and all eventually
became headquartered in larger cities. And so it limited the
opportunities in terms of particularly in banking and so forth. And by
that time, most of the S and L’s have become actually banks and in
banking. And it was an easy transition for me as far as private law
practice because again, I had pretty much kept a common theme and what I
was doing although it sounds like a lot of different organizations, and
that common theme was real estate, both in its management and its
development and so forth. So, so it made -- It continued to make sense.
If I wanted to particularly, if I wanted to stay in this area butch, by
that time, I was pretty settled in and so forth.
>> Colby Tibbet: Settled in, can you talk a little bit about when did,
when did -- Between working all these jobs when did you meet your wife?
You know, that’s kind of important, right. I mean ->> Jim Woodward: That's very important. Well actually I met my wife, my
first wife Diane in -- at Berkeley and then we separated many years
later, 20 years later, basically. And had two children, a boy and a girl
and at that time, and then was frankly single for a number of years,
about 16 or 17 years and was remarried in 1989 to Judith Knapp who is a
psychologist as well as a registered nurse and so forth. And together
combined, we have four children and they've all done very well. And it's
been a lot of fun because particularly when we had the, had two boys, one
at Stanford at the same time as one was at Cal, which, of course, I've
been an alumnus of both. So that was great, during big game time and all
the other activities. But I'm very pleased that I made the choice to
return and to become, you know, a part of the community in the way that
my family had, you know, previously.
>> Colby Tibbet: Was that something you always had a goal or, you know,
an ideal for, was that to come back and contribute in that way?
>> Jim Woodward: Well I always thought I would but, you never know
because as I mentioned, the Irvine Company opportunity that that would've
probably taken a very different turn since many of the people I worked
with down there -- in fact my counterpart from Chicago became President
of the Irvine Company, the fellow who bought it Don Bren we worked with a
lot when I was at Kaiser Aetna. So, with all of those connections if you
will, I probably would have led to a different situations but I'm -- I've
always been so pleased that I was able to come back and from the time I
did, I became engaged in a number of local activities and feel it's
really an important part of my life and it's given me a great deal of
satisfaction.
>> Colby Tibbet: So after your private service or your private, doing
private law practice -- excuse me, what was after that, what did, you
know, this was like around 2003 at this time.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Well I went and -- I'm with several -- Actually,
when I transitioned out of Guarantee, McCormick Barstow Law Firm had been
our law firm for many years. And that was an easy transition. And then,
eventually however, I ended up back in my old, original law firm Baker,
Manock and Jenson. As -- of council which is -- can mean almost anything
but in my case, it was where I'm -- still practice, but I'm not doing as
much or I'm not as confined to that as certainly -- the attorneys or
associates would normally be. But that has also permitted me again to be
fairly active in a variety of local non-profits. And along the way too,
which in addition to the non-profits, I've served on the board of
Gottschalks, which was, again a family-owned company, which went public.
And I served on that board for about 15 years before it eventually was
closed under very unfortunately circumstances because it, we were doing
quite well and providing a lot of employment and to so forth and it
served the community I think very well. But GE Capital decided they
wanted to reduce their amount of financing and that's what lead to that - and that's what triggered that -- that action where it was closed. And
what's kind of coincidental is just this last couple of weeks, GE has
announced they're getting completely out of capital financing and so
forth. So sometimes, you don't have control over those things just like
with Guarantee Savings, which I mentioned -- which was forced again to
merge due to certain economic and business considerations. I've always
thought it was interesting that two significant businesses in our
community have very parallel histories. They both were originated and
created in approximately the year 1900 and both celebrated a hundred year
anniversary but both are gone and they were companies, which had definite
philosophies in the terms of how they treated their customers and how
they approach business. And I think served the community well, both
family-owned but both went public eventually. And it's just again
economic circumstances sometimes drives these situations which don't
always serve maybe the best interest of as many people as we'd like, so.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about -- you know, you talked
about Gottschalks, more about the nonprofits or the community benefit
organizations that you've been a part of?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Before I do that, I'll just mention -- the only
other for-profit company, which I did serve, which was publicly listed as
well and turned out to be an energy company, it originally was called the
Ag Zone, it was an ecommerce approach to dealing with agricultural
products. Unfortunately, our timing was just a little off. And it
eventually transitioned after several steps into an energy company
headquartered in Houston. And I did serve eventually as chairman of that
board. But it finally again merged into another company. But it was
primarily focused on what is now fairly well-known, not at that time it
wasn't and that is this horizontal drilling approach to extracting oil
from the ground. And it's been revolutionary in many respects and is
being seen right now. But again, it took several years for that to
transition as we work through it.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that was done here at Central California, so this
very revolutionary and pioneering technology was being applied here. And
then now we see it everywhere.
>> Jim Woodward: Exactly. And of course currently, the whole oil
industry’s been very much in the news and very, again very if not
controversial, very topical, you know, in terms of what is going on and
so forth. But that was again an interesting experience. Regarding the
nonprofits, I always felt I was -- It was sort of an automatic thing for
me to do because my father had been very involved as I’ve mentioned
before in a number of local nonprofits and then created a number of
entities which still exist today. So when I came back in the mid 60's out
of law school, I immediately got involved with actually Storyland and
which before, it became more of a part of Rotary. But also the old Fresno
Art Center, which is now the Fresno Art Museum and I became -- Came on
those boards and actually became president of both of them eventually.
And then even though I left town as I mentioned earlier, I still stayed
somewhat connected and so when I returned, I immediately got involved in
other similar activities and eventually, that included at that time the
Zoological Society, the Historical Society, the -- eventually became
involved with the Visitors and Convention Bureau. And was on that board
and president and then I became involved in Fresno State particularly and
was on their foundation board for over 15 years, I guess. And as well as
St. Agnes Hospitals Foundation Board and the Fresno Regional Foundation
Board as well and was Chairman of that for several times. So, I just have
always -- it's always been a kind of part of my life and I never was able
to devote quite the same percentage of time that my father did
particularly. But I -- But a significant amount of time and I found it
extremely gratifying. Some of the other projects, the Japanese Shinzen
Garden at Woodward Park on their advisory board and have stayed involved.
They -- I think they’re a great contribution, you know, to both the park
and to the whole community. But it's -- it’s very rewarding as you can
imagine.
>> Colby Tibbet: And has been so rewarding -- and even recognized for it
before, correct? I'm reading that you were the philanthropist of the year
of 2009, you were granted with that award?
>> Jim Woodward: That was--That was a very nice honor from the
Association of Professional Fundraisers. And it was nice to be
recognized, of course. I think probably for many of us in the community,
the -- if not the ultimate that the recognition that some of us probably
cherish the most is Leon Peters Award because it -- and I was fortunate
enough to know Leon quite well. And had the great opportunity, the first
time I was ever asked to go out and seek contributions from anyone from - and it was probably at that time -- for the art center, but he was the
ideal person to go to, to have -- to me to have to go to, to ask for
because it was his whole life. And so, he spent a lot of time with me,
gave me a lot of good ideas. And it's one of those things I remember
significantly, you know, greatly.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, currently what are you working on right now?
>> Jim Woodward: At the moment, I'm a -- I'm a Director Emeritus of the
Regional Foundation. So, I stay involved with their nominating committee
and so forth. I stay involved also on emeritus, Governor Emeritus for the
foundation, Fresno State Foundation. So, I try to stay involved in that.
I'm on the Board of Directors now of St. Agnes Hospital which is quite
challenging given what healthcare is today. That -- And I've only been on
for several months now, but I with my background from the foundation,
it's made it somewhat easier, but it's extremely challenging. And I think
is time very well -- very well-spent. I'm on the Board of Trustees of the
Central Sierra Historical Society, which is the group that built the
small museum up in Shaver Lake and is attempting again to keep the
history intact. And very, very active group and are doing some nice
things up there, I think.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms of, this is more of a broad ->> Jim Woodward: Sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- question out of a big picture. And of all -- and all
these things that you've done and in terms of like where you work in
community organizations and part of these achievements, what are some of
the things that you can talk about, maybe that you wish had more time for
or things you could’ve developed more either for yourself as a hobby or
as a community? Is there anything that you think back be like, man, I
could have, you know, I shouldn't have done that or something? Not
necessarily like a regret but just more like an acknowledgement of
something you wish you had more time to do.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, to be honest, I wish I had just more time, period.
There is so much to be done. I mean, right now, our -- so many of our
community benefit groups as they're now called and more often than
nonprofits, but the same, the same thing are in constant need. And the
two are -- the two areas that I've seen particularly prevalent in those
groups, particularly those that I call stand alones that are not tied
either to a university system or to a hospital system or where there's
more structure, the biggest problem and it's just universal, the best I
can tell are pretty much anyway, continuity of leadership is a real
problem when you have a volunteer group. So as you can imagine, there's
nothing to really keep that together and on a regular basis. And when you
lose that continuity, in many cases, you place the organization at risk,
very much so. The other common element that I've seen is the lack of the
ability to establish financial stability particularly for operating
costs, year to year operating costs. It's always been relatively easy.
It's not as easy today because the numbers are so large. But
historically, it's been rather easy to find capital money and build a
structure if you will. The challenge has always been to build the base
and the foundation to be able to run it and to have a constant source of
income and so forth, because in the general -- in the majority cases,
your admission prices, your memberships and those kinds of things will
not sustain a larger operation. So, what we've -- what I've certainly
tried to encourage and others certainly too, is to build endowments. And
they can often come best through planned giving, through wills and
others, or even grants and whatever. But to build endowments which can
help provide sustainability and particularly, I like the idea of the
regional foundation because it separates it from the actual entity and
protects it in as much as too often we've – We’ve found when some of the
groups get into financial stress. They will invade these endowments or at
least borrow against them, which amounts to the same thing, amounts to
the very same thing because at the end of the day, if it fails, that
endowment’s gone. And I face this with the Met failure and others. I was
given the task of liquidating all the art that remained at the
Metropolitan Museum when it closed several years ago. And that took a
couple of years, we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,400 items. I
mean -- and they had to be disposed of and the art for the most part was
disposed through auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christie's and
others. And -- But it's very disappointing because needless to say, it
does -- it does not help in the future raising of funds and showing
responsibility and accountability when that happens. And those original
donors are very likely to become concerned, which they should be. And so,
we need to work on that. And I can honestly say, I think there's a number
of community benefit organizations that have been here for over 50 years,
which are still struggling and are not really financially stable and some
have considerable assets at risk. So, we need to improve on that. And
there's always plenty of challenges out there and to do. I believe that
maybe we’ve, through good motive but maybe not such good circumstance,
we’ve initiated and we've created probably too many entities in some
areas through again good motivation, but not good management and we're
overlapping and probably could do better in coordinating some of these
efforts. Because the motivation is usually good, but sometimes again our
ability to manage in a responsible way isn't quite what it could be. So,
we can always work on that.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, what's next for Jim Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I'm at the point -- I try not to take on more than
I can comfortably handle. Fortunately, I am -- my time is pretty flexible
and I can do it, but right now, I can tell you the St. Agnes Board is
very much a full time. And I say full time, it honestly can be and I'm
just so impressed by the dedication, frankly not only of that, of the
board itself, I mean the key board members they'll spend a large
percentage of their time and fortunately are able to -- I mean day-to-day
on things, let alone the staff which is extremely committed and very,
very, very impressive, I think. But healthcare, of course is a very big
issue today from all aspects, financial and then importance significance
-- of some importance, but now with the government at all levels being
involved and thus the entire system embedded in political environment
suggest that it's going to -- that it's challenging. And it is, it is.
And no one -- I don't believe. I'm convinced that no one has a simple
answer or knows exactly where we are as we have heard from our
politicians and others. I mean it's extremely complex and the cost not
to—the least of which the cost is very difficult to get a handle on and
to control. And I could -- I think anyone could spend the rest working on
that -- on that one. So that's a real priority right now for me. And I -I've always liked to be involved with the cultural arts, which I am and I
know that it can't be left out. Sometimes I think we tend to forget the
benefits from say an area like that not realizing what it does in terms
of affecting human behavior and our standard of living and our whole
lifestyles, but there -- as I say, there are plenty of challenges, that
we know.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, you want to talk a little bit about your teaching?
You know, about where you taught, what you did?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. We can do -- sure. I mean, just because again, I
think -- I mean those are the things I've enjoyed the most, you know, and
they’re all different for different reasons, you know. But ->> Colby Tibbet: Let’s start -- let’s start where you first started
teaching and when.
>> Jim Woodward: Okay. My first teaching, if you will, experience was
when I was in law school. I did some teaching and grading and so forth
over in the business school since I had, again, been to business school
before. I -- it was a nice diversion and it gave me a little variety. I
find I do better if I -- I'm able to have a little diversity in my
activities. So, I really enjoyed I worked with the dean over at that time
at the hospitals and school. And that was my first, I guess, true role as
a teacher, reader, or whatever at that time. But later, when I had some
little more flexibility here in Fresno, my first position was as an
adjunct professor at the business school here at Fresno State and taught
primarily business law and business-related subjects for several years.
And then later, I taught several times out of Fresno Pacific. Probably my
favorite class was organizational behavior, which was both of course a
business and a psych class, but ->> Colby Tibbet: It's relatively unique, I think.
>> Jim Woodward: And it brought -- multiple disciplines. So -- And
apparently interested the students more because we had a very good group,
strong group of students. And also, it gave me the chance to bring in
some individuals in the community such as the mayor and others, and other
successful business people and so forth to share their experiences and so
forth. So, that was certainly one of my favorite classes that I taught.
And then I did teach for a while evening classes at Fresno City College
and primarily in personal finance. And that was very rewarding because
these students really did want to learn, sometimes they were more
motivated than some other students just because, I mean they really
wanted to get as much information as they could on how to manage their
own personal affairs and so forth. So, all of those types of positions
have been very rewarding. And I think any time you can share experience,
I don't now how much knowledge, but experience with -- and help obviously
the students get a head start or -- and hopefully steer them away from
mistakes that can be avoided. And so that's extremely gratifying.
>> Colby Tibbet: I think it's also interesting that not even the range of
places that you taught the institutions, right? The variance between
let’s say, Fresno City or at Stanford, you know what I'm saying? Like
it's -- it kind of reflects just, you know, the -- your occupations and
your jobs and the community benefited organizations you've been a part of
and through your teaching, you know? So I ->> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- think that's really interesting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, you know, I've always said -- felt that it's like
giving a talk or so forth. It's obviously much easier when you've had
some experience or some of the -- and at least believe that you know what
you're talking about as opposed to the alternative. So -- And it's
gratifying just to share -- to share thoughts because when you're
teaching, I mean very often you learn as much -- first of all, you have
to really refresh yourself in terms of knowing what you're talking about.
And that's a great test of -- I think of where you are with handling a
particular material because it's pretty hard. Well, you cannot teach
effectively, obviously, if you haven't. And so it forces you to focus.
And then once you're actually in the classroom and I'm sure people have
heard many professors and teachers say this, but you learn so much, you
know, from the students, obviously more -- some than others but it is. I
mean it's just a great discipline. It's a great learning experience, both
ways, I think with the difference between Fresno State and Fresno
Pacific. But part of that can have to do with, you know, whether lower
division or upper -- you know, and I mean that's just natural that in
some classes, degree required classes and so forth, they're not going to
have as much interest from the students and then, you know, they're not
going to be into it as much as possibly a senior who's really focusing on
what they think they're going to be doing when they get, well you know.
It's just practical aspects but, but it's fun to share and -- And of
course even in continuing education, part for attorneys, we basically are
teaching each other, I mean, all the time. I mean because who gives the
classes and so forth. So, a lot -- know, you know a lot of the classes,
so to me -- I suppose teaching -- you know, when you don't want it to
stop, I mean in terms of at least sharing with whether it's your kids or
friends, or peers, or whatever.
>> Colby Tibbet: The venue doesn't change. You're always doing it, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, yeah ->> Colby Tibbet: I mean the venue changes but you're always doing it --
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a fine line but I don't
know. It's been an interesting ride, you know? I've been really blessed.
So, I mean I -- I've had so many opportunities and I just think, you
know, the more opportunities that you're given, then the more obligation
you have to share and to do things -- I mean you -- come on, you got -- I
mean you got to give -- I mean we are -- when I reflect back and think of
where the opportunities we have, I mean I don't care where the United
States or at least during my generation compared to the rest of the
world, you know? I mean -- I mean percentage wise? I mean, it's just -- I
mean we’re all very fortunate. I don't think there's any doubt about
that.
>> Colby Tibbet: Also to acknowledge -- to give back or to reflect and be
able to ->> Jim Woodward: I mean what if you were born in situations for every
morning, I mean, you wake up, you're looking at survival, not, you know,
whether, what you're going to have for lunch, you know, come on. And
fortunately, we've had it pretty -- pretty well and particularly my gen,
we’ve, as I say, it's been pretty -- pretty easy. I mean, you know, so ->> Colby Tibbet: But then, I was -- like you said, not to just take that
for granted and not do anything with that, right? As to give back or to
do something to contribute?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and the reality is and -- I mean, the reality is
and I mean, people say this but unless you've done it, I'm not sure, say
it with the same amount of heart and so forth is that you get back. You
get back so much more than you give -- I mean, it does, you know, it's
hardly fair, you know, I mean in that sense. I mean it's not -- I don't
think -- I mean, obviously, I think it's nice that people rewarded for
the things that they do but you really do -- I think the starting point,
though, on a lot of this, I know with my kids, I've talked a lot about,
tried to get them all involved in some form of competition or some kind
of sports or something. So, they realize that, you know, there's a direct
correlation, and yeah, there are some glitches, but it's direct
correlation about how much effort you've put in and what you're going to
get back out. I mean, and if they can learn that, if somebody learns that
fairly early, I think what's happening in a lot of instances, and again,
I am no psychologist, I’ll leave that to my wife. But I think -- I mean I
think it's pretty clear that, you know, you exercise a certain amount of
discipline and you’ve -- and you’ve give -- you're going to get a lot
back, you know. And what I like about sports is you -- it's pretty
immediate. You know, I mean, I did a lot of competitive swimming and,
well, every sport. Those days, we could in high school, you can do a lot
of sports, now you can only do one pretty much but I mean even playing
rugby at Cal and even freshman football, believe it or not. But rugby and
all, I mean it -- and I'm just glad. You know, I think that's what that
experience should be, you know, of figuring that out, not collecting
trophies but I just, just figuring that out that there is a correlation.
It may not be perfect.
>> Colby Tibbet: ‘Cause that’s more applicable to the rest of your life
as opposed to, like you said, a trophy, right, you know?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. And about the only other thing I've tried to press
my kids is that, you know, the more you do to build in your foundation
because I look at education as permanent, kind of broad and you've kind
of go this way. But the more you can build in the opportunity for
choices, that probably the better off you're going to be because I
certainly found that if hadn't been able to move a little, you know, and
I guess the reason I say this is because when I -- in the early 70's,
when I was trying to decide what to—kind of where to go next because I
found that the straight practice of law is a little bit limited. It's a
little bit repetitious and so forth. So I talked to quite a few older
attorneys, older that time, you know. I don't know what they were -- but
honestly, I found an awful lot on who weren't happy with what they were
doing and yet they were locked in. I mean they were -- and they had to
stay there because of the economics and, I mean, there worse places I'm
sure to be locked in but having said that, it's awfully nice to have some
flexibility to be able to make a few turns when you ->> Colby Tibbet: I guess it's kind of like the initial goal of higher
education as opposed to what it is a lot now where it's very vocational,
where it's like you're going to be a chemist so that’s all you're going
to focus on as opposed to, let's say, prior, maybe a decade or two where
it's about that variance, right, to be varied, you know, broad citizen to
be able to contribute in a multitude of ways as opposed to just one.
>> Jim Woodward: Well that's true and that is a problem. It's interesting
because my youngest son who is an engineer and -- eventually got a PhD,
actually and as well as masters and stuff and then robotics and so forth.
He just is -- Well, what's interesting to me is way back at Berkeley in
our fraternity, we had an engineer or two, and at that time, I felt so
badly for these people because they couldn't take any classes. They were
-- All they could take, I remember distinctly, I mean it was just -That's terrible. That's not education in full. It's fine but and sure
enough, our son who and you know, he is mid-30s now but as he got out and
started trying to figure it out, he just made the choice just the last
month of instead of getting in the ladder because Google and some of them
had been chasing him and so forth, rather than getting in a corporate
ladder for engineers, he took a job as a CTO over in Las Vegas with a
smart, you know, 50, probably something -- Laser and 3D outfit which
where he can be over -- I think he's over about a dozen people but to get
the management to get that exposure and to build in more flexibility to
see and some of these working with electrical, chemical and civil
engineers, you know. So, it’s -- it is interesting, you know, and you're
right. I mean, you know, and that's not all bad because I mean for some,
that works and it fits, but some, it doesn't is my only point.
>> Colby Tibbet: You know, it could be also a good thing that, you know
higher education or college could provide both of those. So, but I do
feel there’s a danger of more of the ladder seeping in as opposed to what
it used to be, so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, it's an interesting ride particularly when you get
to where I am -- at this point. You know, but I think it's important
never to get too locked in and if you can again, yeah. I mean if you can
have some flexibility and again it just worked better for me. I -- but
I'm sure there's others where there's more security and they'd feel more
secured just -- saying oh, and that’s nothing wrong with that. It's just
that wouldn’t have worked for me so much and I guess my feeling is if you
provide the opportunity both ways but to stay locked in, fine, you really
haven’t really lost much. But if you go the other way and do one or maybe
take a little different direction and can't, it's kind of sad but, you
know, we never -- it's hard to get it right, perfect every time. Somehow,
all of our decisions aren’t -- in fact, I'll never forget the orientation
at Stanford business school first day, they said, "If you can make the
correct decision, business decision, 50% or more of the time you're going
to be really successful." You know, I kind of got mine and then, of
course, then I went to law school and they didn't buy that. I don't think
that -- that didn't, that doesn’t sell for those people, but anyway. So,
it all depends on the audience, I guess, or the group you're working with
and so forth, so -- and I’m trying to think what the course was, but the
great thing at the business school is they, as particularly, as compared
with law school, they actually they force you to write a lot of papers of
all kinds, short, long, all kinds -- but they actually graded them. I
mean, they actually read them. They actually marked them up and they -Frankly, most of the law school professors were way too -- they're no way
they were going to spend that kind of time. They just, and they didn't -so they didn't have many writing courses. But I remember, in one class,
which I forgot which one it was. He, the professor circled all the I's,
you know, and said, you know, be careful when you're writing about I, I,
I, you know, and I don't know. I just always remember that and I
sometimes, I see that with people -- They don't realize what they're
doing and it's not that they're bad people, it was just that they don't,
you know -- So I have -- but when you're talking about yourself, you kind
of have to say I, you know. It's hard not to ->> Colby Tibbet: But I think it’s effective because what I was trying to
do is creating, like, anecdotal anchors, it's like what I like to call
it, or it's like, I would interject and give the basis for you able to
talk about yourself with some type of anchor to bring it back for people
who might, you know, for anyone to who’s paying attention or to anyone
who's going to be watching this or listening to it that they'll know,
"oh, this is why he's talking about it because it kind of leads into it."
>> Jim Woodward: No, and the good -- I mean you've added a lot of good, I
think, a good direction and just by which -- And the only reason I can
compare is because as we talked at lunch that Tammy was aware when they
did the other one with Michael. And I know more and more and then Marcie
just mentioned I guess more and more that they're going this route, you
know, and so the more techniques, you know, to help us when we’re in this
-- because we don't think about it.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, your seat is much harder than I am I’m fully aware
->> Jim Woodward: I know, I know. Well, you know, I've always -- it kind
of backed if you know your material then it, you know, it's pretty easy
to give a talk but if you don't, it's kind of tough or if you're not
telling the truth, it's really tough. But I mean, if -- you know, so that
part doesn't bother me as much. But I just think it's great that it's
going to all this trouble because I mean there's a lot of resources by
the time you put every -- I didn't, you know, even realize until lunch
what kind of what was going on in that regard. So, I think that's great.
>> Colby Tibbet: And also you need comparisons when you talk about
Gottschalks and at also Guarantee how they both started in 1990, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well hundred, yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: 1900, excuse me, so a little big difference.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And how they pushed together, like I knew about the
history of Gottschalks and I knew a little bit about Guarantee but I
didn't know ->> Jim Woodward: Really parallel.
>> Colby Tibbet: How I mean just how parallel they were? So I mean that's
and that’s interesting to so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and it's just I happened to be, you know, in a
little different roles but involved with both and, of course, I knew the
families and all that. But it, the only bad part about it was it was sad
that the end result, just due to circumstances beyond every anybody’s
control. I mean it just -- But in both cases, you know, I it's hard not
to reflect back and say, you know, OK if that hadn’t happened, you know,
where would they be and could they have survived and in my humble
opinion, they definitely could have survived because there is no
difference between what Guarantee had and now Central Value Bank or just
these local banks. I mean there're no difference at all. There is no -Gottschalks, we would have run circles around Kohl’s and some of these
others. And, yeah, we didn't make the shareholders the kind of money we
would've liked and we had a lot of -- because we're competing with Tar -we’re competing with everybody in the world. I mean it was just -- But
that doesn't mean it had to go and that's what's frustrating, you know,
when you see something that didn't need to happen and it can happen so
quickly in business world. I mean, it’s just it’s -- Well, or even the ecommerce thing. We had a good deal going at Ag Zone, we were just about
six months late and so that thing unraveled and gosh, we went through all
different -- the vertices was another part of that and but all different
-- kind of spin-offs. And then it was almost by accident that we got into
this to the energy field. But part of that had to do with some technology
involving the ability to communicate out to wellheads and so forth and
so, anyway that it was technology that provided that connection. And it's
just interesting sometimes how business can go that direction and -- but
dealing with the people down in Houston, Texas is another interesting -It was a real redneck down there. They’re just, I mean, they are -- it's
something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: I went to Texas for the first time in January and I went
San Antonio and he was actually there not too long ago too.
>> Jim Woodward: Really?
>> Camera Operator: I go to Houston all the time. I live in Houston.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh, really?
>> Camera Operator: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: That's a kick, because my oldest son was in San Antonio
quite a while and -- But I just -- I mean, of course, I mean I like a lot
of what they're after but it, it is a kick.
>> Colby Tibbet: It was fine, I was telling my friends I was going to
Texas and they're everybody’s like, "Oh, man, be careful." I absolutely
loved it. I loved everything about Texas. So, it's absolutely -- it's
such a -- and I think it's the same thing with people who aren't from
California perceive California that same thing. Because I went there and
I was expecting just the worst and no, amazing people.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: Not very much different from -- San Antonio reminded me
a lot of Fresno in terms of its people with just the kind of attitude
that they had. So that was kind of cool.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh I didn’t, I mean like any travel after a while, it
gets old.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, I think next is that I don't know the next process
that we would hand it to you --
relation to the campus?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. I'm Jim Woodward. My full name is O. James
Woodward III. And that's just to keep identification straightforward
within the family more than anything.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, we're going to start with your great grandfather,
Oscar James Woodward, just more of like an oral history of your family.
Can you talk about the -- your great grandfather in terms of his early
years before Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. My great grandfather and mother came in the
late 1870s, to Fresno from Clinton, Illinois, via Phoenix, Arizona
actually. And his main interests were in real estate, and in financial
issues and so forth. But, that's when it all started in terms of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you mentioned you want to talk about his
business partner, Jacob Vogel, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: You got me there, because ->> Colby Tibbet: And then so, he was in banking? I’m imagining, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Yes.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: He -- My great grandfather along with a couple of others
started one of the very first banks in Fresno, the First National Bank of
Fresno, and from there, it eventually was merged into Bank of Italy,
which of course later became the Bank of America. And he was actually on
the board of the Bank of America when he passed away in 1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: And so, his reasons and goals for Fresno can you -- can
you touch on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well -- And again, in those days, the very beginning of
Fresno really in many ways, there wasn't much in terms of large numbers,
but he was very interested in the development of the real estate
particularly as well as I say the financing area. And he unfortunately
lost his wife, Anna in the late 1919 I believe it was. And in fact
there's a fountain in her memory that's in the Fresno County Courthouse-park and which my aunt, Atha Woodward O'Connor actually designed in her
memory in 1919. But, I as mentioned, he didn't actually pass away until
1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned a little bit about his influence in the
community, can you elaborate a little bit more about that like how it
started and, you know, just how it grew?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, of course, this is all hearsay from a standpoint
that I was fortunate enough when I returned to Fresno after law school in
the mid '60s there were still a number of individuals here who I've met
who had done business with my great grandfather. So, that was kind of fun
for me. And apparently, he was very involved in the community and, of
course, in financing much of what was going on which also developed other
relationships. So, as I say, he primarily focused on the real estate and
the banking business.
>> Colby Tibbet: Besides Fresno he talks – he mentioned a little bit
about his international travels and the things that he did outside of
Fresno. Can you-- can you touch up on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, all I know, I know he did travel quite a bit and
he probably, I suspect had a little more flexibility because again, his
wife had passed away, you know, quite early, early on. But, he -- as I
say actually passed away just about 3 months after I was born. So, I
didn't have much of a chance to have much dialogue although he apparently
did dictate if you will in those days what my name would be. So, that's
how it ended up with the third.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then so, we're going to jump to your grandfather?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely.
>> Colby Tibbet: Roy J. Woodward->> Camera Operator: Pause it really quick.
>> Colby Tibbet: So we’re moved to your grandfather Roy J. Woodward, can
you talk a little bit about him and in terms his role in Fresno or in
California?
>> Jim Woodward: Oh sure. Absolutely. What I might start with is my great
grandparents had actually four children. One passed away at birth
actually, just very shortly after birth, but there were three others, two
boys and one girl. And that was when my grandfather, who we'll talk a
little more about. My great uncle who we shall also talk about who was
Ralph Woodward who was primarily responsible for Woodward Park. And then
also, a girl by the name of Abbie Woodward Parker who lived most of her
life outside of Fresno in New York and San Francisco for whatever reason,
I'm not exactly certain. But, my grandfather was an avid reader and
really enjoyed books, had quite an extensive collection and a library,
actually in his own home. And he was also a business partner with his
brother, Ralph Woodward in the farm implement business for a number of
years as well. And again, also interested in real estate and development
and that type of thing. My grandfather passed away in 1940, so I recall
him but not in great detail. And that was the reason actually my own
family moved back in 1940 from the bay area to Fresno. But, he was known
and at least of all the accounts that I received is as a very gentle,
interesting, you know, man who was really more interested in areas
outside of business than necessarily strictly focused on business as I
believed my great grandfather, his father was pretty focused on the
business world.
>> Colby Tibbet: Next, talk about a little bit about his interest in art
and literary things, can you talk a little bit about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, the -- As I say, he had an extensive library, and
part of that was a history of California. And that particular collection
was actually later, it was formally given to the grandchildren, there are
five grandchildren of which I was one. And our parents determined that
that would be a good special collection for the Madden Library at the
time. And so, my father who was close to Henry Madden actually made this
gift on our behalf as being the first special collection in the Special
Collection Library at Fresno State.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned your great uncle in terms of the
establishment of Woodward Park? Can you elaborate or reflect a little bit
more on him?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. He was a very interesting gentleman who I did
get to know quite well because he didn't pass away until I believe in the
'60s. And I actually spent quite a bit of time with him. He was an avid
sportsman, fisherman and a hunter and so forth. And he initially thought
it would be a great idea to have a bird sanctuary in Fresno. And which
would probably approximate 50 acres or so -- or so -- approximately. And
some people around him including my own dad convinced him that a more
general open and larger public park would be even more beneficial to the
city. And so, ultimately he left his -- essentially his entire estate for
that purpose. And so rather than just have a bird sanctuary of which a
part of the park still is that approximately 50 acres. But we were able
to add another, initially another 150 acres and then later another 50
acres or more. So, it's over 300 acres now. And there's a lot of history
of course around the development of that. And it took a lot, a lot of
individuals after his death to make that occur. And I think it's
important because particularly the city parks and recreation director
Howard Homan was a catalyst in a very important part of making that
happen and turned out to what -- what has been a very successful
obviously a project for the City of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit more about your
grandfather Roy J. Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Again as I mentioned, he was an avid reader and
apparently a very -- very quiet and -- person who -- who has focused on
family a lot as well as others. Now, he had, he had two children. One, my
father and one, a girl by the named of Atha Woodward O'Connor who I
previously mentioned had designed the memorial, the Anna Woodward
Memorial Fountain that's down in our courthouse park. But, my father
settled in Fresno after going to Berkeley and to Harvard and so forth and
came back and lived his whole life here. My aunt, rather took a little
different turn and settled in the Bay Area. So, she was close of course,
but she lived most of her life in the Bay Area although she did live a
short time here. And she had -- they had three children. And then my dad
actually had four of which I was the second oldest son and the only boy,
so I had three sisters and, but most of the family eventually moved out.
At most, my sisters are all living out of the area, so I'm here -- but we
do have seven grandchildren in the area, so we're still -- still hanging
around.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, between your grandchildren, you're the only one that
primarily stayed in Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: That's actually correct. Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms your uncle. Can you -- in terms of your
great uncle Ralph, can you talk a little bit more about the park and its
development and its history in regards to the city?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Surely. Well, he passed, passed away in the
early '60s I recall and the park started to actually be developed in the
mid '60s about the time I actually came out of law school. And so I was
around for a certain portion of that. And as I mentioned earlier, Howard
Homan played a big role. Another person locally who played a large role
was Lewis S. Eaton. And the Eatons, as many know with the family that
founded the Guarantee Savings and Loan and they happened also be
neighbors of ours for a number of years. And my father and Lew Eaton did
a number of projects, local projects together, not the least of which it
was forming the regional -- Fresno Regional Foundation as well as many
other projects. And I even eventually later worked with Lew Eaton at
Guaranteed for a number of years and in different ways. But Lew was
appointed as a successor trustee. He was not an original trustee, but he
was appointed a year or so after the process began for establishing the
park. And what turned out to be very, very fortuitous and helpful was
that at the time, they were prepared to or preparing to place the park
out on Belmont on -- in east Fresno. And he didn't think that was the
best of ideas. So, they began focusing more on the north where the growth
of course was occurring. And just by chance, he -- at that time he was
President of the U.S. Savings and Loan League and -- which was happened
to be headquartered in New York. And also, the owners of the property
that was acquired was Santa Monica Land Company which is also
headquartered in New York. And so, after a number of visits, he was able
to convince them to -- can sell the land for this purpose. And that was
obviously a very important and key part of the whole establishment of the
park. The park, originally, a lot of -- many people don't recall or
weren't here to see that that was absolutely bare land. I mean, it was -and pretty flat too, but totally bare out there. So, the -- another
fortuitous thing was that the City of Fresno, and I still believe does
have a tree farm. So, almost instantaneously, they were able to establish
a significant presence as a park immediately rather than waiting, as we
know for some of those types of trees to take a very long time to grow.
So, that was another big, big, step among others. About that time -- well
at that time, interest arouse to establish a Japanese garden. So, through
a number of people including my dad and Lew Eaton and others this -- the
Shinzen Garden -- Friendship Garden was established and has been a very,
I think significant addition to the park. It has -- continues to have
challenges of course with -- if not, just the water situation these days,
but also the maintenance frankly and with the -- trying to work with the
City of Fresno and so forth. And that's been quite challenging but a good
thing has happened just recently where they've acquired a bonsai
collection from the Clark Museum down in Hanford. And it's very
significant and they're working right now on another section for -really of great addition to the park. The park as I mentioned was
originally conceived as a bird sanctuary more than anything and -- But
with the idea that with the other space that it would be primarily a
passive park. One for families and other events and gatherings, but not
overrun with too many amusements and too many destinations. So, my only
concern and my only involvement really has been to try to remind everyone
about that occasionally that if you get too many destinations, you
necessarily interfere with the passive use which I think could be very
unfortunate. And particularly with the amount of use it gets at -- on
holidays and so forth the cars are backed up quite ways. And I think that
need to be always -- that is to -- the use needs to be protected for its
initial and its best purpose. And sometimes even though they might have
good motives, these other events -- for example, the amphitheater which I
participated in frankly and went through Rotary to establish but on a
limited scale. And at times, they wanted to make that much more than it
is now. And there again, I think personally it would be a mistake.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that's -- because it's so extremely unique to Fresno
because there's not many places like that and a very passive experience,
correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And with noise or others even at one time
for a short period, they had a light show which was fascinating in the
holidays and it was great. But think about -- so, they had a lot of wires
strung around there and think of not only the kids, but people walking
but also the number of running events that the cross countries which
again I think is it's a great purpose, you know, use. And -- But you kind
of, you kind of have to manage these things sometime so that you get -the end result is what you want and not something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you -- a little question about the reasoning before
the development why they wanted to go towards Belmont, towards that area.
Can you -- do you know the reason why--the logic behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: You know, I was not a party, you know, to it. And I
really don't know specifically. It could well have been a cost factor at
the time. That's certainly possible. Maybe they were concerned and of
course which it is. The river is a barrier going north to some degree,
but we also know we still have a lot of development left out north that - and so there's still plenty of room. And I think, you know, it also
shows -- it's been 50 something years, 60 I guess. But since it all
started and we still have quite a bit of space and, of course, the need
it's ideally located as things turned out because again there's so many
people that just from their homes they tell me. I mean, they take their
bikes, or walk or whatever. And so that's really gratifying. I mean, it's
-- to me it's one of our best examples of doing something right. And some
of it by accident, no doubt, but at least we got -- we did get a good
result.
>> Colby Tibbet: Do you think that foresight of moving it north is one of
the primary reasons for its success? I mean just the location and the
idea of everything moving north?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, if you think
about it too in terms of travel and transportation and people going north
or south, if it were too far east -- I mean particularly going north you
add quite a bit of travel time, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think again,
it just it's a lot of different elements, but it's again it turned out to
be a good choice.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you said -- you mentioned that it was flat
previously. So->> Jim Woodward: Yup. Yup.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- they had to dig, you know->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- there is hills and->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- with the road works. I mean, do you know a little bit
about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I -- what I recall is, is two small children at
that time and I would take them out with these little carts so that, you
know, this -- what the -- what's the derby they used to have, a little->> Colby Tibbet: Boxcar.
>> Jim Woodward: -- boxcar deals. And we made those. And I remember that- again, making these undulations and so forth which was great for that,
for that use. But, they did have to move, move a lot of dirt. And as I
say, it was absolutely barren. There were certainly no trees. That's for
sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: Excellent. Can you talk a little bit about the history
and just a little bit about your father?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. He went by his initials -- he went by OJ before
OJ became infamous and had -- and there are a lot of stories about that.
But he went by OJ and he was the second of course because his grandfather
was still alive but his father actually wasn't OJ. So -- But he went to
Berkeley and then later to Harvard Business School and he came back to
Fresno in 1940 when his father died and stayed there ever since. And was
primarily involved in real estate development, property management as I
called it then, although many people didn't really know the terminology
or understand it much, but he devoted in his -- particularly his mid and
later years probably close to two-thirds of his time, his actual physical
time on projects, on non-profits. And he was very involved and started a
number of different organizations. He was involved with the art museum,
which was then known as the Art Center when they moved from downtown,
from the Vanderberg Home out to where they are now on Clinton known as,
of course, the Fresno Art Museum, which is much different and certainly
has grown. But he focused a lot on cultural arts because he felt that
those were often ignored. People were generally more connected with
social or health issue problems rather than the cultural arts, so he
focused a lot on that. But he also became involved in a number of our
local nonprofits and started a number of them. He was the first president
of the SPCA. He was involved with the zoo in the early, early times. He
was involved in the swimming programs. My sister, Beverly my older sister
and I were started in competitive swimming when we were eight or nine
years old, which was a little unusual in those, days but we were involved
and so he got involved. And so, he started some of the first swimming
programs and competitive swimming programs. He was involved in -- again,
a lot of projects that are unknown. Probably one of his better known
projects was he put the committee together to raise the money and then
select the art for the mall art downtown which is of course under
discussion right now quite a bit as to its importance and so forth. But
that was a very successful project and brought art to our area, which we
hadn't seen before. But he always had a project going, the Fresno
Regional Foundation was his concept. And he brought Lew Eaton involved
immediately and they got that off the ground and that has gone through
considerable growth and to where now it's really serving the purpose that
he always thought that it could. But some of these projects of course
take longer than others and the Regional Foundation has taken a number of
years to build the assets and the base to provide the kind of purpose and
asset to this community that he had in mind certainly.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about what the Fresno Regional
Foundation is, what it does and when it first started?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. The Regional Foundation is known as the community
foundation of which now there are quite a few throughout the country.
Back then, there weren't, there weren't so many. And the history, the -of community foundations is generally it takes a rather large gift or
more to really get it off the ground, to give it substance and assets.
And that took quite a few years to be honest, quite a few years. Many of
us served throughout that. We had to use a voluntary executive director
for many years. And that is certainly not the case now nor in the last
several directors. But it -- what its purposes is, is to attempt not only
to encourage philanthropy at a broad base but to get involved in making
decisions on priorities for the community and where it's needed. And as I
say early on with limited assets, of course, you couldn't do as much, but
now and particularly with collaboration with such foundations such as the
Irvine Foundation, it's been an incredible asset and important to that
growth. But--And then the federal grants and so forth, they're -- The way
that the Regional Foundation works now and they have a board of course
that's community board as well as executive director staff of eight or
nine now and they attempt to do what I mentioned. And that is on a very
broad base encourage philanthropy, but then also participate in trying to
be sure that these funds go into the right place. And that can get pretty
challenging at times. And -- but it -- It's particularly attractive too
for what we call planned giving and that in terms of where people have
significant resources and assets. And upon their death want to leave them
for the benefit of the community. They may not have -- either have
sufficient over and above what they need for their family or they may not
have a large family. And the reason I think it's particularly beneficial
is because sometimes with the individual nonprofits, there isn't the
self-control when things get challenging to protect endowments from
invasion and not really furthering the purpose for which those funds were
given. And that for some of us is very disturbing. And we've had -- we've
seen and had our funds frankly taken from endowments that their
motivation may be correct but the result is not. And whereas when you
have a sense of third party entity with independent judgment, if the
original entity fails, they can look to the next best, then the closest
similar purpose and again, try to fulfill what that original donor had in
mind. And then that's I think just being -- ethical and to the purpose
but with the failure of some of our nonprofits through a very -- for
various reasons, sometimes this doesn't occur. And that's why I say the - And the regional foundation now, I mean it's broadened its
participation and we’re actually involved in four or five counties and
constantly building its assets. And through them also, a lot of people
don't know that it's not just a case of giving funds or assets to the
regional fund. You can put them with them for management and they will
again through donor advise funds as we call them and other ways, even
independent foundations but with their management can be sure again that
those assets are protected and go to the right place.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you with your grand or with your father besides,
you know the things that they worked with, can you talk a little bit
about like -- his like personal interests, or his hobbies or anything
like that?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Sure. He had many interests of course and that -in those days -- really early days for like myself being in this area-well, among other things there weren't the organized sports for kids that
we have today. It was pretty much hunting and fishing and being in the
mountains and that type of activity. And so, that's what we did. And even
when I was a youngster, I mean we -- in our neighborhoods, we had
football teams and all that but nothing organized like today, which is a
whole other issue. But, it's really organized. But his interests were
largely in that and in art as I mentioned in the cultural arts, he was -He actually did quite a bit of sculpturing and other types, wood working.
And we always had a shop at home and he had a lot of interests and he
would spend most of the summers and or good part of the summers and we
had a cabin up at Huntington Lake, which my grandparents built in the
late 1920s. I mean they actually had two cabins. They built it on the
side now where there are mostly cabins. But at that time, there was no
road, so the most -- all that material was brought by boat. And it took
quite a while to build that cabin, but it -- it's quite a cabin by the
time they got it through. But as I did, I mean we spent most of the
summers up there and it was a very active place. And as was all of
Huntington Lake and Lakeshore and even down in Shaver Lake, a lot of
that’s changed and I think to some degree personally that a lot -- that
it's been influenced by the organized sports for the kids during the
summers where they just don't have that flexibility in that time. They
have to focus and they have to go to these camps and it's just a
different -- a different environment. My father, as far as business was
as I say, you know, primarily focused on real estate and developing what
we call neighborhood shopping centers and that type, it's small
subdivisions, small -- but his real -- I think his real love focus was on
other things other than just the business part. He had many other
interests.
>> Colby Tibbet: We still have a couple more family members that I have
here. Particularly, Beatrice Denke Woodward and Nadine. Is there
anything you want to talk a little bit about them or your aunt Atha
Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Let me -- Yeah. Let me just think here what might be the
more ->> Colby Tibbet: Or anything that you want, or we can jump to anything,
other topics that you want to talk about it’s entirely up to you?
>> Jim Woodward: I'm just trying to think what -- what might make sense
in terms of again connecting at, you know, to -- and I don't know whether
we ought to -- I mean, as far as, you know, my own kids and all of that
we can leave ‘til next time because of just again to keep some -- some.
We’ve, we had the foundation on that list. I was trying to think what
else anything we had, and we had quite a bit with Lew.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, you want to talk a little bit more about Lew Eaton
and the things that he has done or?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. I could talk because he felt that -- that his
role, he told me a number of times because we spend a lot of time
together. All kinds of different ways, mountains, playing tennis, golf,
and all this stuff. But he thought that his role in changing the location
of that park was probably one of the most important things he --he ever
did. And then later, which I'll, I can get to next time, when he passed
away, I got a group together and we came up with the idea of the Lewis S.
Eaton trail, which was just perfect for his situation and the family
liked loved it and everything else. So -- But I think we can ->> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit about the Fulton Mall and
the role your family and your father had in regards to it?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. As I mentioned, he was very focused on cultural
arts and he was involved in the very early years of the -- what's now the
Art Museum and other groups. And one of his -- I think most interesting
projects and lasting projects, well hope it's lasting, was when the
Fulton Mall was being formed and the succeeds and the designs and so
forth. He came up with the idea of raising money to bring in some really
major art works. And not just from well-known artists but from local
artists as well. And so, he formed a committee. He came up with a
somewhat of a new way of raising that money by putting a minimum on what
your contribution could be because he knew he didn't have a lot of time
to get it together, but which worked successfully although was
challenging too. So, this small committee made up of some artists as well
as himself and community leaders went out. And I actually went along a
couple of times when they interviewed, particularly local artists in
terms of what they might be interested in in offering and believe me they
weren't offering them as donations but, but they were very interested in
the project. And so, of course, what eventually evolved was everything
from a Renoir of the washing woman to some local pieces like there's a
granite piece by Newt Russell who was local attorney and a very good
family friend, we went in the back country a number of times together
with his boys. And also then other artists, but trying to bring a balance
of appropriate art that would make the whole Fulton Mall, you know, a
special, a special place. And in those years, it was a very special
place. And when I know even myself when I was again, out of law school in
the '60s and early '70s at lunch time, was a lot of business that on the
mall at the lunch break -- But the whole environment of course was quite
different. And the -- As you can imagine, there were many different
opinions when it comes to art, anyone who's been involved with art
particularly in a business sense, you know, in a business office or law
firm, usually get a very -- a lot of discussion about art one way or the
other. And which is good. And I think that brought a lot of interest to
the mall when it was first established. And, of course, more recent years
there's been discussion of possibly completely redesigning, if not
eliminating not only the art but the configuration of the whole mall,
which is a whole story into itself. And there again, as many -- probably
as many opinions as a number of people you talk with, but I think for the
most part, everyone agrees that that was a major improvement and
contribution. It should be protected to the extent possible. And if there
other driving forces that require street configuration and so forth,
that's one thing, but I hope we we’re sensitive to these things. And I'm
sure we're making and try to be sure we're making an improvement and not
just a change.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is about also like maintaining and preserving that
art itself.
>> Jim Woodward: And that that -- and that's a very good point because
like so many different situations, it's the maintenance and continued
protection of these valuable assets that is important and yet is probably
sometimes the most difficult to find the support for. But I must say,
several years ago, there were several efforts and actually made and
completed in terms of protecting -- There was a former councilman and
others who saw the need and I was very impressed because they did do
that. And I don't think the exact location always is that critical, you
know, providing again, it makes sense and it helps guarantee that
protection that we're all concerned about.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then can you talk a little bit more about during
this time, a lot of the other things that your father was invested in in
terms of changing structurally or different things that he wanted to make
improvements upon.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I think I previously mentioned his interest in
the swimming area, competitive swimming and so forth. And then, as part
of that, he was the one -- and I believe pretty much individually who
went to the schools and to the administration and convince them to put
the first swimming pools in our high schools. And I mean that was the
first. And it was accomplished and received. I know many, many
compliments and later too about the one thing, though, that occurred in
that situation was at that time, the kids weren't playing any water polo.
We did -- I hardly knew the sport at that point. And so, as a result, all
the pools in the high schools actually were not built deep enough for
good water polo play. And I know because our sons played. And frankly, it
can be dangerous. And it was in one situation and the recent being --
players get leverage off the bottom of the pool and that creates a
different dynamic. And in one of our son's case, it created quite a few
stitches. So, it's -- again, one of those things that has now though been
pretty well corrected overall and it was great to see and it -- But I do
think it helped without doubt start and certainly supported the interest
in swimming, or competitive swimming and probably water polo because, you
know, many of these -- many kids, of course, didn't have pools at their
homes or didn't have access to that type of activity. So, I think he, you
know, I think my dad felt a lot of satisfaction in that particular
project, but he always seem to have a project under consideration at
least.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk -- Can you name some schools that, you
know, initially were changed local -- here locally.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I know Fresno High. And I mean I read and I know
at that time and again I don't recall the exact timing when Hoover and
Bullard came along, but, of course, back in that time for sure, Roosevelt
and Edison and Fresno High School along with, of course, Memorial but as
far as the Unified School District, there were just three or four. And -and then it -- but I believed in each case even -- well I know for a fact
that Bullard, and I think Hoover as well, for sure also were too shallow
and had to be changed. Of course, a lot of that has now been corrected.
But -- And those days too. The system was much smaller. I mean, you could
deal directly with the superintendent of schools. You didn't have quite
the challenges with as many voices and some things were simplified
without a question.
>> Colby Tibbet: The bureaucracy and just the ->> Jim Woodward: Nope. Nope. Joke. That's just reality today I think.
Right -- right now -- well, it's a pattern. I guess one of a number and I
guess some -- maybe I mean, some of it I did understand but in more
recent years, I've never -- I haven't understood why some of these very
large homes are being built whether it's by the builder or the person
that's paying the bill. I mean, given all of the challenges and even
aside from water and everything else, just utilities and the whole bit
and I don't care how much money you have. It's not where I'm at. I -- I
am interested now because I happen to be a pretty close friend of Leo
Wilson who's built an awful lot of homes. And we have a group that has
lunch most Fridays and so forth. And so, we have a lot of history and
background. But, you know, here's somebody who built the biggest homes
and with, you know, a lot of -- and some pretty expensive, a lot of
molding, a lot of -- and now, I mean he's -- his average home, you know,
is really pretty small. And he not building it that big, but now other
people are -- I don't mean that, but I mean that's been interesting to me
‘cause he got into -- out of the dominion and all of that, all that -he's the first one that did any of that. And I used to take him -- go
down with him to Orange County ‘cause I was down there for five years
with a large builder Kaiser-Aetna. And which we had all kinds of product,
different types of product. And at Warner Center particularly which is
Woodland Hills. I mean, we did everything from Blue Cross headquarters to
tennis clubs to -- just all kinds of things. And so, I mean I’ve seen a
lot of change and so forth. But of course, ground, you know what, a lot
of it comes back to what the price of ground is. And since it was cheap,
that's why you go out. I mean, you don't go up. I mean, it’s simple. I
mean, really that part. That's why in New York and San Francisco, you
know, you could pay so much for that little pad that should make more
sense. So that drives a lot of it. But, I guess I still in this last
cycle and I’m talking like about the last -- say five? Ten, ten years
maybe. But -- And the last down cycle, people still going out and
building these crazy -- And I know some of them --and they’re not large
families. I'm not talking about if you've got ->> Colby Tibbet: Six kids ->> Jim Woodward: Seven kids, five, you know, or something else. I mean I
have a boy with seven children. So, I mean, I know you know, and but they
don't need that in there, you know, but I just think it's kind of
interesting how that's changed.
>> Colby Tibbet: And there's influx too. So, it'll be some years where
that's really in high demand or popular. But then you see this decrease
in more of a minimal, you know, a smaller setting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well there's definitely been a separation between, you
know, and I'm sure you're aware of this, out by the park and all that
development versus Old Fig Garden and Fresno High and all that. I mean,
it's just two worlds. And for a lot of people, that's a good point. Who
come from particularly -- I don't know why I'm thinking of Southern
California because I'm not, but they're used to something more similar to
that. And so, it's obviously more comfortable, you know, including our,
you know, even some of our kids have, you know, that's - -Even though
they kind of like to be somewhere else but it -- that's where it works
best for them economically and other way. So, I don't know. You know,
it's Old Fig is a story into itself, you know? I mean, I could -- I think
we were talking about. I mean, I can go down Wilson and Wishon and
identify most of them, most of the names over the last 50 or 60 years.
>> Colby Tibbet: I lived on Wishon, I lived in a home from the 1930s and
there was ->> Jim Woodward: Between what street?
>> Colby Tibbet: Wishon and Harvard. So, it’s a little bit closer to the
Fresno High area.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And ->> Jim Woodward: Sure. I know it.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's interesting the history that you learn about your
home, but then you go a couple blocks east or west and that history could
just be nonexistent --
>> Jim Woodward: Well, that's another thing. I mean it's very, very
spotty and different thing. In fact, for a short time, I mean, I lived in
Old Fig for quite a while but then I lived down by Hamilton, right there
on Farris. You know, I went to Fresno High for a while. And -- but then,
of course, huge difference when Bullard came along and things started
going north again. I mean, that changed the dynamics but -- But there's
something about, you know, Old Fig, it's just surely kind of amazing I
think.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely its own little microcosm within itself
of Fresno, definitely.
>> Jim Woodward: And it's, you know, plus and minus, you know I mean, but
it's got a lot of history. It’s really what intrigues me like right
across of my grandparents, again, Roy and, you know, even in his home had
a true library. I mean, which I don't think were that common. But right
across from them was Gilbert Jertberg. And Gilbert, he's -- he has been
the highest court judge that we've ever had come from here, he's on the
Ninth Circuit in the federal system, but he was a very good friend of my
grandfather's and he had a lot of connections at Stanford. And in that
house, I mean people like Herbert Hoover, Earl Warren and all these
people. And I almost tried to bite it one time just because of all this
history, you know, but it took a lot of work. And so, Stuart Woolf which
did it. And he did a good job. And -- but I mean there is a lot of
history around and there's history everywhere. I mean -- but, it's kind
of fun to reflect, you know, to -- But in a general sense, I guess one of
the things would surprise me a little -- a little bit is that it's taken
so long, I mean even with the barrier of the river. You know, even if you
stay to this side and go on up to the dam and, you know, how long that's
taken to develop. I mean things have really pushed east, you know, but of
course, Clovis was out there to -- most of all their school system that
made a huge difference and no question, no question. I mean that had a
big influence for -- I think it still does. I don't know to the degree it
does but ->> Colby Tibbet: I remember, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago that
was a huge deal for a lot of parents and it's definitely ->> Jim Woodward: Huge.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely balanced out. It's definitely balanced
out. I think a little bit more in terms of Bullard and Edison and all
these other schools who really ->> Jim Woodward: And I think because they changed the schools, the
programs with Edison Computech and all of that got their act together and
I think you're right and, of course, Buchanan, you know, the
superintendent out there, I mean he -- big influence and it was new, it
was different, it was, you know, very progressive and very competent. You
know, so it was--but that had a lot.
>> Colby Tibbet: So before you saw that Eastern push, you really were
thinking it was all -- it's going to head all the way up to Friant.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, probably feeling,
but you know what's happening right now across the river, you know, in
Madera County. There are some like McCaffrey and Gunner and I mean all
these -- big chunks —>> Colby Tibbet: The Tesoro ->> Jim Woodward: And it's going to take -- of course water continues even
before this thing. I mean water's been a huge issue and should be. I
mean, I think you had to give somebody credit. I mean, they were ahead on
that one. They stayed ahead on that one and didn't let them, because I
know Yule [assumed spelling] and Ben Yule and others, you know, they've
been for 20, 30 years been trying to do a lot more up there. But they've
held them back because of the water issue. And so, you know, I think
that, you know, that makes sense, but it's a, you know, it's an
interesting challenge with all of the local politics and then you of
course you throw in a little corruption here and there and that always
gets everybody going like with that whole deal that -- what they call it
out there. They called it Clovis, I mean, but it really wasn't so much -What was that -- deal that Tatham -- Bill Tatham started. They're the
same, but anyway, they sent several people to jail. I mean, wasn’t a
small deal. I mean it was, you know, not that everybody wasn't doing it,
but they nailed quite a few people and that kind of changed that dynamic
a little.
>> Colby Tibbet: With your early life, maybe a little bit about your
childhood, where you were, where you lived and then kind of maybe move
transition into college, and early education.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I was actually born in Oakland, California
because my parents were living in the Bay Area at the time. My dad had
just come back from Harvard Business School and was working in San
Francisco. And so that was in the late 1930s. But in 1940, my grandfather
passed away and so we moved back to Fresno. And I was in Fresno schools
up through most of high school and then eventually went to UC Berkeley
for undergraduate and was there until 1958 when I did have to serve in
the military for just six months active duty, but in reserve -- in
reserves for a number of years thereafter. Upon completing that tour, if
you will, with the US army and I was involved in artillery and guided
missile school area and was at Fort Sill. Upon returning however, then I
worked for a short time with PG&E in San Francisco and some small
securities companies and -- But then entered Stanford Business School in
1959 and graduated in 1961. From there, I went back across the Bay, if
you will, to Berkeley for law school. And graduated from there in 1964
and returned to Fresno for a short time with a law firm and practiced
law. But within about a year, I was asked to join the legal staff for the
UC Regents. And that was again, you know, about 1966, which was a very
interesting time on the Berkeley campus as we recall. And also
interesting from the standpoint that Ronald Regan had just been elected
governor and was, of course, on the Board of Regents and there was quite
a difference of approach between the administration at that time at UC
and the Board of Regents. The Board of Regents at that time was composed
of some very well known individuals like Norton Simon and Dorothy
Chandler and Catherine Hearst and all names that most people recognized
at the time. But also pretty, pretty conservative philosophy whereas the
administration in many areas was quite different and of course it was -a lot of turmoil at that time with all that was going on on campus and so
forth. But I enjoyed that and learned a lot, I think about some of the
ramifications of the political scene and enjoyed it a lot. But in -after a couple years, I returned to Fresno and joined the law firm of -at that time. It was Gallagher, Baker, Manock, myself and Wanger. And of
course Ollie Wanger went on to be a federal court judge for many years
and now practices in Fresno. About 1972 or three, I decided I wanted to
diverse a little bit in terms of getting into the -- at least the
potential possibility of being more in management than just from legal
matters. And the -- So I joined the -- A firm by the name of Kaiser Aetna
which was a partnership between Kaiser Aluminum and Aetna Life Insurance.
It was worldwide actually, but headquartered in Oakland. And so I moved
to Newport Beach and within one year I was made the regional manager as
well as also able to do the legal work for that particular area and that
was very rewarding and interesting time. About five years after I joined
Kaiser Aetna, they determined that they were not particularly compatible
partners because Kaiser Aluminum of course was a manufacturing company
basically and tended to count the widgets at the end of the year. And
whereas Aetna understood the real estate area a little bit more and the
primary function of this company was real estate development and as I
say, throughout the world. When it became clear they were not going to
continue to exist, I of course began to think about other opportunities
and I was actually offered to be the first general council for the Irvine
Company in 1977. But unfortunately, the family was having some difficult,
some misunderstandings if you will, and so they could never quite get
that finalized in a shorter term. So I returned to Fresno which obviously
set my whole life again in a different -- a little bit, in a different
direction. And I came back and joined with First Savings and Loan which
was a local small savings and loan who'd been a client of mine and ours -earlier when I was in practice.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is this is in 1977 correct?
>> Jim Woodward: This is in 1977, correct. And so I was able to be both
an in-house corporate council, also have a private practice on the side
and do a certain amount of real estate development for them in terms of
joint ventures at that time. I continued to do that until -- for several
years and then, First Savings and Loan merged with Central Savings, which
was a fairly large S and L at that time headquartered in San Diego. And
so I almost moved down there, but I stayed here and continued in private
practice and so forth until about 1985, mid 80s, Lew Eaton, who was the
President and CEO of Guarantee Savings and Loan asked me to join them.
For several reasons and several capacities, one was to do some
reorganization of the company since it was growing very rapidly. And also
particularly to build a large headquarters for them, and to put a team
together to build this in which we did and we put -- and within nine
months we're ready to break ground, out actually directly across from
Woodward Park. And it was quite a -- it's a 30-acre project which three
buildings initially and then it would become eventually four -- four. And
about eight days before groundbreaking, in fact the wine glasses were
etched and everybody was ready to go. It was discovered that the Chief
Financial Officer for Guarantee Savings had placed us in a very
unfortunate position, financially and so that project had to be abandoned
and at that time, the company went in to a mode of looking again for a
merger, and to be sold because again of the risk involved, the management
and owners, and by that time Guarantee was a public company but it was
family-controlled in terms pretty much here in our area. So, eventually
there was a merger with Glendale Federal, which then later, after a
couple of steps became a part of Citibank actually and still is. So that
was kind of my history in terms of dealing particularly with the real
estate development, but then the financial end of it because I did stay
on with Glendale Federal for three and a half years and was on their
executive committee, in loan committees and so forth. But because -- just
geographically it became a little bit of a challenge and because we did
have operations in Florida and the State of Washington as well as
California and so forth. And so about that time, again needed to
transition and look for a different activity and I returned to private
practice in this area and ->> Colby Tibbet: Can you explain elaborate why you made that decision?
What was the -- your motives or your ideas behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, what was happening essentially was the financial
institutions, which I've been involved with primarily S and L’s during
from -- for quite a few years there. There was a series of mergers and it
was a bunch of transitional period and most of those and all eventually
became headquartered in larger cities. And so it limited the
opportunities in terms of particularly in banking and so forth. And by
that time, most of the S and L’s have become actually banks and in
banking. And it was an easy transition for me as far as private law
practice because again, I had pretty much kept a common theme and what I
was doing although it sounds like a lot of different organizations, and
that common theme was real estate, both in its management and its
development and so forth. So, so it made -- It continued to make sense.
If I wanted to particularly, if I wanted to stay in this area butch, by
that time, I was pretty settled in and so forth.
>> Colby Tibbet: Settled in, can you talk a little bit about when did,
when did -- Between working all these jobs when did you meet your wife?
You know, that’s kind of important, right. I mean ->> Jim Woodward: That's very important. Well actually I met my wife, my
first wife Diane in -- at Berkeley and then we separated many years
later, 20 years later, basically. And had two children, a boy and a girl
and at that time, and then was frankly single for a number of years,
about 16 or 17 years and was remarried in 1989 to Judith Knapp who is a
psychologist as well as a registered nurse and so forth. And together
combined, we have four children and they've all done very well. And it's
been a lot of fun because particularly when we had the, had two boys, one
at Stanford at the same time as one was at Cal, which, of course, I've
been an alumnus of both. So that was great, during big game time and all
the other activities. But I'm very pleased that I made the choice to
return and to become, you know, a part of the community in the way that
my family had, you know, previously.
>> Colby Tibbet: Was that something you always had a goal or, you know,
an ideal for, was that to come back and contribute in that way?
>> Jim Woodward: Well I always thought I would but, you never know
because as I mentioned, the Irvine Company opportunity that that would've
probably taken a very different turn since many of the people I worked
with down there -- in fact my counterpart from Chicago became President
of the Irvine Company, the fellow who bought it Don Bren we worked with a
lot when I was at Kaiser Aetna. So, with all of those connections if you
will, I probably would have led to a different situations but I'm -- I've
always been so pleased that I was able to come back and from the time I
did, I became engaged in a number of local activities and feel it's
really an important part of my life and it's given me a great deal of
satisfaction.
>> Colby Tibbet: So after your private service or your private, doing
private law practice -- excuse me, what was after that, what did, you
know, this was like around 2003 at this time.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Well I went and -- I'm with several -- Actually,
when I transitioned out of Guarantee, McCormick Barstow Law Firm had been
our law firm for many years. And that was an easy transition. And then,
eventually however, I ended up back in my old, original law firm Baker,
Manock and Jenson. As -- of council which is -- can mean almost anything
but in my case, it was where I'm -- still practice, but I'm not doing as
much or I'm not as confined to that as certainly -- the attorneys or
associates would normally be. But that has also permitted me again to be
fairly active in a variety of local non-profits. And along the way too,
which in addition to the non-profits, I've served on the board of
Gottschalks, which was, again a family-owned company, which went public.
And I served on that board for about 15 years before it eventually was
closed under very unfortunately circumstances because it, we were doing
quite well and providing a lot of employment and to so forth and it
served the community I think very well. But GE Capital decided they
wanted to reduce their amount of financing and that's what lead to that - and that's what triggered that -- that action where it was closed. And
what's kind of coincidental is just this last couple of weeks, GE has
announced they're getting completely out of capital financing and so
forth. So sometimes, you don't have control over those things just like
with Guarantee Savings, which I mentioned -- which was forced again to
merge due to certain economic and business considerations. I've always
thought it was interesting that two significant businesses in our
community have very parallel histories. They both were originated and
created in approximately the year 1900 and both celebrated a hundred year
anniversary but both are gone and they were companies, which had definite
philosophies in the terms of how they treated their customers and how
they approach business. And I think served the community well, both
family-owned but both went public eventually. And it's just again
economic circumstances sometimes drives these situations which don't
always serve maybe the best interest of as many people as we'd like, so.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about -- you know, you talked
about Gottschalks, more about the nonprofits or the community benefit
organizations that you've been a part of?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Before I do that, I'll just mention -- the only
other for-profit company, which I did serve, which was publicly listed as
well and turned out to be an energy company, it originally was called the
Ag Zone, it was an ecommerce approach to dealing with agricultural
products. Unfortunately, our timing was just a little off. And it
eventually transitioned after several steps into an energy company
headquartered in Houston. And I did serve eventually as chairman of that
board. But it finally again merged into another company. But it was
primarily focused on what is now fairly well-known, not at that time it
wasn't and that is this horizontal drilling approach to extracting oil
from the ground. And it's been revolutionary in many respects and is
being seen right now. But again, it took several years for that to
transition as we work through it.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that was done here at Central California, so this
very revolutionary and pioneering technology was being applied here. And
then now we see it everywhere.
>> Jim Woodward: Exactly. And of course currently, the whole oil
industry’s been very much in the news and very, again very if not
controversial, very topical, you know, in terms of what is going on and
so forth. But that was again an interesting experience. Regarding the
nonprofits, I always felt I was -- It was sort of an automatic thing for
me to do because my father had been very involved as I’ve mentioned
before in a number of local nonprofits and then created a number of
entities which still exist today. So when I came back in the mid 60's out
of law school, I immediately got involved with actually Storyland and
which before, it became more of a part of Rotary. But also the old Fresno
Art Center, which is now the Fresno Art Museum and I became -- Came on
those boards and actually became president of both of them eventually.
And then even though I left town as I mentioned earlier, I still stayed
somewhat connected and so when I returned, I immediately got involved in
other similar activities and eventually, that included at that time the
Zoological Society, the Historical Society, the -- eventually became
involved with the Visitors and Convention Bureau. And was on that board
and president and then I became involved in Fresno State particularly and
was on their foundation board for over 15 years, I guess. And as well as
St. Agnes Hospitals Foundation Board and the Fresno Regional Foundation
Board as well and was Chairman of that for several times. So, I just have
always -- it's always been a kind of part of my life and I never was able
to devote quite the same percentage of time that my father did
particularly. But I -- But a significant amount of time and I found it
extremely gratifying. Some of the other projects, the Japanese Shinzen
Garden at Woodward Park on their advisory board and have stayed involved.
They -- I think they’re a great contribution, you know, to both the park
and to the whole community. But it's -- it’s very rewarding as you can
imagine.
>> Colby Tibbet: And has been so rewarding -- and even recognized for it
before, correct? I'm reading that you were the philanthropist of the year
of 2009, you were granted with that award?
>> Jim Woodward: That was--That was a very nice honor from the
Association of Professional Fundraisers. And it was nice to be
recognized, of course. I think probably for many of us in the community,
the -- if not the ultimate that the recognition that some of us probably
cherish the most is Leon Peters Award because it -- and I was fortunate
enough to know Leon quite well. And had the great opportunity, the first
time I was ever asked to go out and seek contributions from anyone from - and it was probably at that time -- for the art center, but he was the
ideal person to go to, to have -- to me to have to go to, to ask for
because it was his whole life. And so, he spent a lot of time with me,
gave me a lot of good ideas. And it's one of those things I remember
significantly, you know, greatly.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, currently what are you working on right now?
>> Jim Woodward: At the moment, I'm a -- I'm a Director Emeritus of the
Regional Foundation. So, I stay involved with their nominating committee
and so forth. I stay involved also on emeritus, Governor Emeritus for the
foundation, Fresno State Foundation. So, I try to stay involved in that.
I'm on the Board of Directors now of St. Agnes Hospital which is quite
challenging given what healthcare is today. That -- And I've only been on
for several months now, but I with my background from the foundation,
it's made it somewhat easier, but it's extremely challenging. And I think
is time very well -- very well-spent. I'm on the Board of Trustees of the
Central Sierra Historical Society, which is the group that built the
small museum up in Shaver Lake and is attempting again to keep the
history intact. And very, very active group and are doing some nice
things up there, I think.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms of, this is more of a broad ->> Jim Woodward: Sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- question out of a big picture. And of all -- and all
these things that you've done and in terms of like where you work in
community organizations and part of these achievements, what are some of
the things that you can talk about, maybe that you wish had more time for
or things you could’ve developed more either for yourself as a hobby or
as a community? Is there anything that you think back be like, man, I
could have, you know, I shouldn't have done that or something? Not
necessarily like a regret but just more like an acknowledgement of
something you wish you had more time to do.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, to be honest, I wish I had just more time, period.
There is so much to be done. I mean, right now, our -- so many of our
community benefit groups as they're now called and more often than
nonprofits, but the same, the same thing are in constant need. And the
two are -- the two areas that I've seen particularly prevalent in those
groups, particularly those that I call stand alones that are not tied
either to a university system or to a hospital system or where there's
more structure, the biggest problem and it's just universal, the best I
can tell are pretty much anyway, continuity of leadership is a real
problem when you have a volunteer group. So as you can imagine, there's
nothing to really keep that together and on a regular basis. And when you
lose that continuity, in many cases, you place the organization at risk,
very much so. The other common element that I've seen is the lack of the
ability to establish financial stability particularly for operating
costs, year to year operating costs. It's always been relatively easy.
It's not as easy today because the numbers are so large. But
historically, it's been rather easy to find capital money and build a
structure if you will. The challenge has always been to build the base
and the foundation to be able to run it and to have a constant source of
income and so forth, because in the general -- in the majority cases,
your admission prices, your memberships and those kinds of things will
not sustain a larger operation. So, what we've -- what I've certainly
tried to encourage and others certainly too, is to build endowments. And
they can often come best through planned giving, through wills and
others, or even grants and whatever. But to build endowments which can
help provide sustainability and particularly, I like the idea of the
regional foundation because it separates it from the actual entity and
protects it in as much as too often we've – We’ve found when some of the
groups get into financial stress. They will invade these endowments or at
least borrow against them, which amounts to the same thing, amounts to
the very same thing because at the end of the day, if it fails, that
endowment’s gone. And I face this with the Met failure and others. I was
given the task of liquidating all the art that remained at the
Metropolitan Museum when it closed several years ago. And that took a
couple of years, we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,400 items. I
mean -- and they had to be disposed of and the art for the most part was
disposed through auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christie's and
others. And -- But it's very disappointing because needless to say, it
does -- it does not help in the future raising of funds and showing
responsibility and accountability when that happens. And those original
donors are very likely to become concerned, which they should be. And so,
we need to work on that. And I can honestly say, I think there's a number
of community benefit organizations that have been here for over 50 years,
which are still struggling and are not really financially stable and some
have considerable assets at risk. So, we need to improve on that. And
there's always plenty of challenges out there and to do. I believe that
maybe we’ve, through good motive but maybe not such good circumstance,
we’ve initiated and we've created probably too many entities in some
areas through again good motivation, but not good management and we're
overlapping and probably could do better in coordinating some of these
efforts. Because the motivation is usually good, but sometimes again our
ability to manage in a responsible way isn't quite what it could be. So,
we can always work on that.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, what's next for Jim Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I'm at the point -- I try not to take on more than
I can comfortably handle. Fortunately, I am -- my time is pretty flexible
and I can do it, but right now, I can tell you the St. Agnes Board is
very much a full time. And I say full time, it honestly can be and I'm
just so impressed by the dedication, frankly not only of that, of the
board itself, I mean the key board members they'll spend a large
percentage of their time and fortunately are able to -- I mean day-to-day
on things, let alone the staff which is extremely committed and very,
very, very impressive, I think. But healthcare, of course is a very big
issue today from all aspects, financial and then importance significance
-- of some importance, but now with the government at all levels being
involved and thus the entire system embedded in political environment
suggest that it's going to -- that it's challenging. And it is, it is.
And no one -- I don't believe. I'm convinced that no one has a simple
answer or knows exactly where we are as we have heard from our
politicians and others. I mean it's extremely complex and the cost not
to—the least of which the cost is very difficult to get a handle on and
to control. And I could -- I think anyone could spend the rest working on
that -- on that one. So that's a real priority right now for me. And I -I've always liked to be involved with the cultural arts, which I am and I
know that it can't be left out. Sometimes I think we tend to forget the
benefits from say an area like that not realizing what it does in terms
of affecting human behavior and our standard of living and our whole
lifestyles, but there -- as I say, there are plenty of challenges, that
we know.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, you want to talk a little bit about your teaching?
You know, about where you taught, what you did?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. We can do -- sure. I mean, just because again, I
think -- I mean those are the things I've enjoyed the most, you know, and
they’re all different for different reasons, you know. But ->> Colby Tibbet: Let’s start -- let’s start where you first started
teaching and when.
>> Jim Woodward: Okay. My first teaching, if you will, experience was
when I was in law school. I did some teaching and grading and so forth
over in the business school since I had, again, been to business school
before. I -- it was a nice diversion and it gave me a little variety. I
find I do better if I -- I'm able to have a little diversity in my
activities. So, I really enjoyed I worked with the dean over at that time
at the hospitals and school. And that was my first, I guess, true role as
a teacher, reader, or whatever at that time. But later, when I had some
little more flexibility here in Fresno, my first position was as an
adjunct professor at the business school here at Fresno State and taught
primarily business law and business-related subjects for several years.
And then later, I taught several times out of Fresno Pacific. Probably my
favorite class was organizational behavior, which was both of course a
business and a psych class, but ->> Colby Tibbet: It's relatively unique, I think.
>> Jim Woodward: And it brought -- multiple disciplines. So -- And
apparently interested the students more because we had a very good group,
strong group of students. And also, it gave me the chance to bring in
some individuals in the community such as the mayor and others, and other
successful business people and so forth to share their experiences and so
forth. So, that was certainly one of my favorite classes that I taught.
And then I did teach for a while evening classes at Fresno City College
and primarily in personal finance. And that was very rewarding because
these students really did want to learn, sometimes they were more
motivated than some other students just because, I mean they really
wanted to get as much information as they could on how to manage their
own personal affairs and so forth. So, all of those types of positions
have been very rewarding. And I think any time you can share experience,
I don't now how much knowledge, but experience with -- and help obviously
the students get a head start or -- and hopefully steer them away from
mistakes that can be avoided. And so that's extremely gratifying.
>> Colby Tibbet: I think it's also interesting that not even the range of
places that you taught the institutions, right? The variance between
let’s say, Fresno City or at Stanford, you know what I'm saying? Like
it's -- it kind of reflects just, you know, the -- your occupations and
your jobs and the community benefited organizations you've been a part of
and through your teaching, you know? So I ->> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- think that's really interesting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, you know, I've always said -- felt that it's like
giving a talk or so forth. It's obviously much easier when you've had
some experience or some of the -- and at least believe that you know what
you're talking about as opposed to the alternative. So -- And it's
gratifying just to share -- to share thoughts because when you're
teaching, I mean very often you learn as much -- first of all, you have
to really refresh yourself in terms of knowing what you're talking about.
And that's a great test of -- I think of where you are with handling a
particular material because it's pretty hard. Well, you cannot teach
effectively, obviously, if you haven't. And so it forces you to focus.
And then once you're actually in the classroom and I'm sure people have
heard many professors and teachers say this, but you learn so much, you
know, from the students, obviously more -- some than others but it is. I
mean it's just a great discipline. It's a great learning experience, both
ways, I think with the difference between Fresno State and Fresno
Pacific. But part of that can have to do with, you know, whether lower
division or upper -- you know, and I mean that's just natural that in
some classes, degree required classes and so forth, they're not going to
have as much interest from the students and then, you know, they're not
going to be into it as much as possibly a senior who's really focusing on
what they think they're going to be doing when they get, well you know.
It's just practical aspects but, but it's fun to share and -- And of
course even in continuing education, part for attorneys, we basically are
teaching each other, I mean, all the time. I mean because who gives the
classes and so forth. So, a lot -- know, you know a lot of the classes,
so to me -- I suppose teaching -- you know, when you don't want it to
stop, I mean in terms of at least sharing with whether it's your kids or
friends, or peers, or whatever.
>> Colby Tibbet: The venue doesn't change. You're always doing it, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, yeah ->> Colby Tibbet: I mean the venue changes but you're always doing it --
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a fine line but I don't
know. It's been an interesting ride, you know? I've been really blessed.
So, I mean I -- I've had so many opportunities and I just think, you
know, the more opportunities that you're given, then the more obligation
you have to share and to do things -- I mean you -- come on, you got -- I
mean you got to give -- I mean we are -- when I reflect back and think of
where the opportunities we have, I mean I don't care where the United
States or at least during my generation compared to the rest of the
world, you know? I mean -- I mean percentage wise? I mean, it's just -- I
mean we’re all very fortunate. I don't think there's any doubt about
that.
>> Colby Tibbet: Also to acknowledge -- to give back or to reflect and be
able to ->> Jim Woodward: I mean what if you were born in situations for every
morning, I mean, you wake up, you're looking at survival, not, you know,
whether, what you're going to have for lunch, you know, come on. And
fortunately, we've had it pretty -- pretty well and particularly my gen,
we’ve, as I say, it's been pretty -- pretty easy. I mean, you know, so ->> Colby Tibbet: But then, I was -- like you said, not to just take that
for granted and not do anything with that, right? As to give back or to
do something to contribute?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and the reality is and -- I mean, the reality is
and I mean, people say this but unless you've done it, I'm not sure, say
it with the same amount of heart and so forth is that you get back. You
get back so much more than you give -- I mean, it does, you know, it's
hardly fair, you know, I mean in that sense. I mean it's not -- I don't
think -- I mean, obviously, I think it's nice that people rewarded for
the things that they do but you really do -- I think the starting point,
though, on a lot of this, I know with my kids, I've talked a lot about,
tried to get them all involved in some form of competition or some kind
of sports or something. So, they realize that, you know, there's a direct
correlation, and yeah, there are some glitches, but it's direct
correlation about how much effort you've put in and what you're going to
get back out. I mean, and if they can learn that, if somebody learns that
fairly early, I think what's happening in a lot of instances, and again,
I am no psychologist, I’ll leave that to my wife. But I think -- I mean I
think it's pretty clear that, you know, you exercise a certain amount of
discipline and you’ve -- and you’ve give -- you're going to get a lot
back, you know. And what I like about sports is you -- it's pretty
immediate. You know, I mean, I did a lot of competitive swimming and,
well, every sport. Those days, we could in high school, you can do a lot
of sports, now you can only do one pretty much but I mean even playing
rugby at Cal and even freshman football, believe it or not. But rugby and
all, I mean it -- and I'm just glad. You know, I think that's what that
experience should be, you know, of figuring that out, not collecting
trophies but I just, just figuring that out that there is a correlation.
It may not be perfect.
>> Colby Tibbet: ‘Cause that’s more applicable to the rest of your life
as opposed to, like you said, a trophy, right, you know?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. And about the only other thing I've tried to press
my kids is that, you know, the more you do to build in your foundation
because I look at education as permanent, kind of broad and you've kind
of go this way. But the more you can build in the opportunity for
choices, that probably the better off you're going to be because I
certainly found that if hadn't been able to move a little, you know, and
I guess the reason I say this is because when I -- in the early 70's,
when I was trying to decide what to—kind of where to go next because I
found that the straight practice of law is a little bit limited. It's a
little bit repetitious and so forth. So I talked to quite a few older
attorneys, older that time, you know. I don't know what they were -- but
honestly, I found an awful lot on who weren't happy with what they were
doing and yet they were locked in. I mean they were -- and they had to
stay there because of the economics and, I mean, there worse places I'm
sure to be locked in but having said that, it's awfully nice to have some
flexibility to be able to make a few turns when you ->> Colby Tibbet: I guess it's kind of like the initial goal of higher
education as opposed to what it is a lot now where it's very vocational,
where it's like you're going to be a chemist so that’s all you're going
to focus on as opposed to, let's say, prior, maybe a decade or two where
it's about that variance, right, to be varied, you know, broad citizen to
be able to contribute in a multitude of ways as opposed to just one.
>> Jim Woodward: Well that's true and that is a problem. It's interesting
because my youngest son who is an engineer and -- eventually got a PhD,
actually and as well as masters and stuff and then robotics and so forth.
He just is -- Well, what's interesting to me is way back at Berkeley in
our fraternity, we had an engineer or two, and at that time, I felt so
badly for these people because they couldn't take any classes. They were
-- All they could take, I remember distinctly, I mean it was just -That's terrible. That's not education in full. It's fine but and sure
enough, our son who and you know, he is mid-30s now but as he got out and
started trying to figure it out, he just made the choice just the last
month of instead of getting in the ladder because Google and some of them
had been chasing him and so forth, rather than getting in a corporate
ladder for engineers, he took a job as a CTO over in Las Vegas with a
smart, you know, 50, probably something -- Laser and 3D outfit which
where he can be over -- I think he's over about a dozen people but to get
the management to get that exposure and to build in more flexibility to
see and some of these working with electrical, chemical and civil
engineers, you know. So, it’s -- it is interesting, you know, and you're
right. I mean, you know, and that's not all bad because I mean for some,
that works and it fits, but some, it doesn't is my only point.
>> Colby Tibbet: You know, it could be also a good thing that, you know
higher education or college could provide both of those. So, but I do
feel there’s a danger of more of the ladder seeping in as opposed to what
it used to be, so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, it's an interesting ride particularly when you get
to where I am -- at this point. You know, but I think it's important
never to get too locked in and if you can again, yeah. I mean if you can
have some flexibility and again it just worked better for me. I -- but
I'm sure there's others where there's more security and they'd feel more
secured just -- saying oh, and that’s nothing wrong with that. It's just
that wouldn’t have worked for me so much and I guess my feeling is if you
provide the opportunity both ways but to stay locked in, fine, you really
haven’t really lost much. But if you go the other way and do one or maybe
take a little different direction and can't, it's kind of sad but, you
know, we never -- it's hard to get it right, perfect every time. Somehow,
all of our decisions aren’t -- in fact, I'll never forget the orientation
at Stanford business school first day, they said, "If you can make the
correct decision, business decision, 50% or more of the time you're going
to be really successful." You know, I kind of got mine and then, of
course, then I went to law school and they didn't buy that. I don't think
that -- that didn't, that doesn’t sell for those people, but anyway. So,
it all depends on the audience, I guess, or the group you're working with
and so forth, so -- and I’m trying to think what the course was, but the
great thing at the business school is they, as particularly, as compared
with law school, they actually they force you to write a lot of papers of
all kinds, short, long, all kinds -- but they actually graded them. I
mean, they actually read them. They actually marked them up and they -Frankly, most of the law school professors were way too -- they're no way
they were going to spend that kind of time. They just, and they didn't -so they didn't have many writing courses. But I remember, in one class,
which I forgot which one it was. He, the professor circled all the I's,
you know, and said, you know, be careful when you're writing about I, I,
I, you know, and I don't know. I just always remember that and I
sometimes, I see that with people -- They don't realize what they're
doing and it's not that they're bad people, it was just that they don't,
you know -- So I have -- but when you're talking about yourself, you kind
of have to say I, you know. It's hard not to ->> Colby Tibbet: But I think it’s effective because what I was trying to
do is creating, like, anecdotal anchors, it's like what I like to call
it, or it's like, I would interject and give the basis for you able to
talk about yourself with some type of anchor to bring it back for people
who might, you know, for anyone to who’s paying attention or to anyone
who's going to be watching this or listening to it that they'll know,
"oh, this is why he's talking about it because it kind of leads into it."
>> Jim Woodward: No, and the good -- I mean you've added a lot of good, I
think, a good direction and just by which -- And the only reason I can
compare is because as we talked at lunch that Tammy was aware when they
did the other one with Michael. And I know more and more and then Marcie
just mentioned I guess more and more that they're going this route, you
know, and so the more techniques, you know, to help us when we’re in this
-- because we don't think about it.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, your seat is much harder than I am I’m fully aware
->> Jim Woodward: I know, I know. Well, you know, I've always -- it kind
of backed if you know your material then it, you know, it's pretty easy
to give a talk but if you don't, it's kind of tough or if you're not
telling the truth, it's really tough. But I mean, if -- you know, so that
part doesn't bother me as much. But I just think it's great that it's
going to all this trouble because I mean there's a lot of resources by
the time you put every -- I didn't, you know, even realize until lunch
what kind of what was going on in that regard. So, I think that's great.
>> Colby Tibbet: And also you need comparisons when you talk about
Gottschalks and at also Guarantee how they both started in 1990, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well hundred, yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: 1900, excuse me, so a little big difference.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And how they pushed together, like I knew about the
history of Gottschalks and I knew a little bit about Guarantee but I
didn't know ->> Jim Woodward: Really parallel.
>> Colby Tibbet: How I mean just how parallel they were? So I mean that's
and that’s interesting to so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and it's just I happened to be, you know, in a
little different roles but involved with both and, of course, I knew the
families and all that. But it, the only bad part about it was it was sad
that the end result, just due to circumstances beyond every anybody’s
control. I mean it just -- But in both cases, you know, I it's hard not
to reflect back and say, you know, OK if that hadn’t happened, you know,
where would they be and could they have survived and in my humble
opinion, they definitely could have survived because there is no
difference between what Guarantee had and now Central Value Bank or just
these local banks. I mean there're no difference at all. There is no -Gottschalks, we would have run circles around Kohl’s and some of these
others. And, yeah, we didn't make the shareholders the kind of money we
would've liked and we had a lot of -- because we're competing with Tar -we’re competing with everybody in the world. I mean it was just -- But
that doesn't mean it had to go and that's what's frustrating, you know,
when you see something that didn't need to happen and it can happen so
quickly in business world. I mean, it’s just it’s -- Well, or even the ecommerce thing. We had a good deal going at Ag Zone, we were just about
six months late and so that thing unraveled and gosh, we went through all
different -- the vertices was another part of that and but all different
-- kind of spin-offs. And then it was almost by accident that we got into
this to the energy field. But part of that had to do with some technology
involving the ability to communicate out to wellheads and so forth and
so, anyway that it was technology that provided that connection. And it's
just interesting sometimes how business can go that direction and -- but
dealing with the people down in Houston, Texas is another interesting -It was a real redneck down there. They’re just, I mean, they are -- it's
something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: I went to Texas for the first time in January and I went
San Antonio and he was actually there not too long ago too.
>> Jim Woodward: Really?
>> Camera Operator: I go to Houston all the time. I live in Houston.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh, really?
>> Camera Operator: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: That's a kick, because my oldest son was in San Antonio
quite a while and -- But I just -- I mean, of course, I mean I like a lot
of what they're after but it, it is a kick.
>> Colby Tibbet: It was fine, I was telling my friends I was going to
Texas and they're everybody’s like, "Oh, man, be careful." I absolutely
loved it. I loved everything about Texas. So, it's absolutely -- it's
such a -- and I think it's the same thing with people who aren't from
California perceive California that same thing. Because I went there and
I was expecting just the worst and no, amazing people.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: Not very much different from -- San Antonio reminded me
a lot of Fresno in terms of its people with just the kind of attitude
that they had. So that was kind of cool.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh I didn’t, I mean like any travel after a while, it
gets old.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, I think next is that I don't know the next process
that we would hand it to you --
>> Colby Tibbet: So, first and foremost, can we get your name and your
relation to the campus?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. I'm Jim Woodward. My full name is O. James
Woodward III. And that's just to keep identification straightforward
within the family more than anything.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, we're going to start with your great grandfather,
Oscar James Woodward, just more of like an oral history of your family.
Can you talk about the -- your great grandfather in terms of his early
years before Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. My great grandfather and mother came in the
late 1870s, to Fresno from Clinton, Illinois, via Phoenix, Arizona
actually. And his main interests were in real estate, and in financial
issues and so forth. But, that's when it all started in terms of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you mentioned you want to talk about his
business partner, Jacob Vogel, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: You got me there, because ->> Colby Tibbet: And then so, he was in banking? I’m imagining, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Yes.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: He -- My great grandfather along with a couple of others
started one of the very first banks in Fresno, the First National Bank of
Fresno, and from there, it eventually was merged into Bank of Italy,
which of course later became the Bank of America. And he was actually on
the board of the Bank of America when he passed away in 1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: And so, his reasons and goals for Fresno can you -- can
you touch on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well -- And again, in those days, the very beginning of
Fresno really in many ways, there wasn't much in terms of large numbers,
but he was very interested in the development of the real estate
particularly as well as I say the financing area. And he unfortunately
lost his wife, Anna in the late 1919 I believe it was. And in fact
there's a fountain in her memory that's in the Fresno County Courthouse-park and which my aunt, Atha Woodward O'Connor actually designed in her
memory in 1919. But, I as mentioned, he didn't actually pass away until
1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned a little bit about his influence in the
community, can you elaborate a little bit more about that like how it
started and, you know, just how it grew?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, of course, this is all hearsay from a standpoint
that I was fortunate enough when I returned to Fresno after law school in
the mid '60s there were still a number of individuals here who I've met
who had done business with my great grandfather. So, that was kind of fun
for me. And apparently, he was very involved in the community and, of
course, in financing much of what was going on which also developed other
relationships. So, as I say, he primarily focused on the real estate and
the banking business.
>> Colby Tibbet: Besides Fresno he talks – he mentioned a little bit
about his international travels and the things that he did outside of
Fresno. Can you-- can you touch up on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, all I know, I know he did travel quite a bit and
he probably, I suspect had a little more flexibility because again, his
wife had passed away, you know, quite early, early on. But, he -- as I
say actually passed away just about 3 months after I was born. So, I
didn't have much of a chance to have much dialogue although he apparently
did dictate if you will in those days what my name would be. So, that's
how it ended up with the third.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then so, we're going to jump to your grandfather?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely.
>> Colby Tibbet: Roy J. Woodward->> Camera Operator: Pause it really quick.
>> Colby Tibbet: So we’re moved to your grandfather Roy J. Woodward, can
you talk a little bit about him and in terms his role in Fresno or in
California?
>> Jim Woodward: Oh sure. Absolutely. What I might start with is my great
grandparents had actually four children. One passed away at birth
actually, just very shortly after birth, but there were three others, two
boys and one girl. And that was when my grandfather, who we'll talk a
little more about. My great uncle who we shall also talk about who was
Ralph Woodward who was primarily responsible for Woodward Park. And then
also, a girl by the name of Abbie Woodward Parker who lived most of her
life outside of Fresno in New York and San Francisco for whatever reason,
I'm not exactly certain. But, my grandfather was an avid reader and
really enjoyed books, had quite an extensive collection and a library,
actually in his own home. And he was also a business partner with his
brother, Ralph Woodward in the farm implement business for a number of
years as well. And again, also interested in real estate and development
and that type of thing. My grandfather passed away in 1940, so I recall
him but not in great detail. And that was the reason actually my own
family moved back in 1940 from the bay area to Fresno. But, he was known
and at least of all the accounts that I received is as a very gentle,
interesting, you know, man who was really more interested in areas
outside of business than necessarily strictly focused on business as I
believed my great grandfather, his father was pretty focused on the
business world.
>> Colby Tibbet: Next, talk about a little bit about his interest in art
and literary things, can you talk a little bit about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, the -- As I say, he had an extensive library, and
part of that was a history of California. And that particular collection
was actually later, it was formally given to the grandchildren, there are
five grandchildren of which I was one. And our parents determined that
that would be a good special collection for the Madden Library at the
time. And so, my father who was close to Henry Madden actually made this
gift on our behalf as being the first special collection in the Special
Collection Library at Fresno State.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned your great uncle in terms of the
establishment of Woodward Park? Can you elaborate or reflect a little bit
more on him?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. He was a very interesting gentleman who I did
get to know quite well because he didn't pass away until I believe in the
'60s. And I actually spent quite a bit of time with him. He was an avid
sportsman, fisherman and a hunter and so forth. And he initially thought
it would be a great idea to have a bird sanctuary in Fresno. And which
would probably approximate 50 acres or so -- or so -- approximately. And
some people around him including my own dad convinced him that a more
general open and larger public park would be even more beneficial to the
city. And so, ultimately he left his -- essentially his entire estate for
that purpose. And so rather than just have a bird sanctuary of which a
part of the park still is that approximately 50 acres. But we were able
to add another, initially another 150 acres and then later another 50
acres or more. So, it's over 300 acres now. And there's a lot of history
of course around the development of that. And it took a lot, a lot of
individuals after his death to make that occur. And I think it's
important because particularly the city parks and recreation director
Howard Homan was a catalyst in a very important part of making that
happen and turned out to what -- what has been a very successful
obviously a project for the City of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit more about your
grandfather Roy J. Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Again as I mentioned, he was an avid reader and
apparently a very -- very quiet and -- person who -- who has focused on
family a lot as well as others. Now, he had, he had two children. One, my
father and one, a girl by the named of Atha Woodward O'Connor who I
previously mentioned had designed the memorial, the Anna Woodward
Memorial Fountain that's down in our courthouse park. But, my father
settled in Fresno after going to Berkeley and to Harvard and so forth and
came back and lived his whole life here. My aunt, rather took a little
different turn and settled in the Bay Area. So, she was close of course,
but she lived most of her life in the Bay Area although she did live a
short time here. And she had -- they had three children. And then my dad
actually had four of which I was the second oldest son and the only boy,
so I had three sisters and, but most of the family eventually moved out.
At most, my sisters are all living out of the area, so I'm here -- but we
do have seven grandchildren in the area, so we're still -- still hanging
around.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, between your grandchildren, you're the only one that
primarily stayed in Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: That's actually correct. Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms your uncle. Can you -- in terms of your
great uncle Ralph, can you talk a little bit more about the park and its
development and its history in regards to the city?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Surely. Well, he passed, passed away in the
early '60s I recall and the park started to actually be developed in the
mid '60s about the time I actually came out of law school. And so I was
around for a certain portion of that. And as I mentioned earlier, Howard
Homan played a big role. Another person locally who played a large role
was Lewis S. Eaton. And the Eatons, as many know with the family that
founded the Guarantee Savings and Loan and they happened also be
neighbors of ours for a number of years. And my father and Lew Eaton did
a number of projects, local projects together, not the least of which it
was forming the regional -- Fresno Regional Foundation as well as many
other projects. And I even eventually later worked with Lew Eaton at
Guaranteed for a number of years and in different ways. But Lew was
appointed as a successor trustee. He was not an original trustee, but he
was appointed a year or so after the process began for establishing the
park. And what turned out to be very, very fortuitous and helpful was
that at the time, they were prepared to or preparing to place the park
out on Belmont on -- in east Fresno. And he didn't think that was the
best of ideas. So, they began focusing more on the north where the growth
of course was occurring. And just by chance, he -- at that time he was
President of the U.S. Savings and Loan League and -- which was happened
to be headquartered in New York. And also, the owners of the property
that was acquired was Santa Monica Land Company which is also
headquartered in New York. And so, after a number of visits, he was able
to convince them to -- can sell the land for this purpose. And that was
obviously a very important and key part of the whole establishment of the
park. The park, originally, a lot of -- many people don't recall or
weren't here to see that that was absolutely bare land. I mean, it was -and pretty flat too, but totally bare out there. So, the -- another
fortuitous thing was that the City of Fresno, and I still believe does
have a tree farm. So, almost instantaneously, they were able to establish
a significant presence as a park immediately rather than waiting, as we
know for some of those types of trees to take a very long time to grow.
So, that was another big, big, step among others. About that time -- well
at that time, interest arouse to establish a Japanese garden. So, through
a number of people including my dad and Lew Eaton and others this -- the
Shinzen Garden -- Friendship Garden was established and has been a very,
I think significant addition to the park. It has -- continues to have
challenges of course with -- if not, just the water situation these days,
but also the maintenance frankly and with the -- trying to work with the
City of Fresno and so forth. And that's been quite challenging but a good
thing has happened just recently where they've acquired a bonsai
collection from the Clark Museum down in Hanford. And it's very
significant and they're working right now on another section for -really of great addition to the park. The park as I mentioned was
originally conceived as a bird sanctuary more than anything and -- But
with the idea that with the other space that it would be primarily a
passive park. One for families and other events and gatherings, but not
overrun with too many amusements and too many destinations. So, my only
concern and my only involvement really has been to try to remind everyone
about that occasionally that if you get too many destinations, you
necessarily interfere with the passive use which I think could be very
unfortunate. And particularly with the amount of use it gets at -- on
holidays and so forth the cars are backed up quite ways. And I think that
need to be always -- that is to -- the use needs to be protected for its
initial and its best purpose. And sometimes even though they might have
good motives, these other events -- for example, the amphitheater which I
participated in frankly and went through Rotary to establish but on a
limited scale. And at times, they wanted to make that much more than it
is now. And there again, I think personally it would be a mistake.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that's -- because it's so extremely unique to Fresno
because there's not many places like that and a very passive experience,
correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And with noise or others even at one time
for a short period, they had a light show which was fascinating in the
holidays and it was great. But think about -- so, they had a lot of wires
strung around there and think of not only the kids, but people walking
but also the number of running events that the cross countries which
again I think is it's a great purpose, you know, use. And -- But you kind
of, you kind of have to manage these things sometime so that you get -the end result is what you want and not something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you -- a little question about the reasoning before
the development why they wanted to go towards Belmont, towards that area.
Can you -- do you know the reason why--the logic behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: You know, I was not a party, you know, to it. And I
really don't know specifically. It could well have been a cost factor at
the time. That's certainly possible. Maybe they were concerned and of
course which it is. The river is a barrier going north to some degree,
but we also know we still have a lot of development left out north that - and so there's still plenty of room. And I think, you know, it also
shows -- it's been 50 something years, 60 I guess. But since it all
started and we still have quite a bit of space and, of course, the need
it's ideally located as things turned out because again there's so many
people that just from their homes they tell me. I mean, they take their
bikes, or walk or whatever. And so that's really gratifying. I mean, it's
-- to me it's one of our best examples of doing something right. And some
of it by accident, no doubt, but at least we got -- we did get a good
result.
>> Colby Tibbet: Do you think that foresight of moving it north is one of
the primary reasons for its success? I mean just the location and the
idea of everything moving north?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, if you think
about it too in terms of travel and transportation and people going north
or south, if it were too far east -- I mean particularly going north you
add quite a bit of travel time, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think again,
it just it's a lot of different elements, but it's again it turned out to
be a good choice.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you said -- you mentioned that it was flat
previously. So->> Jim Woodward: Yup. Yup.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- they had to dig, you know->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- there is hills and->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- with the road works. I mean, do you know a little bit
about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I -- what I recall is, is two small children at
that time and I would take them out with these little carts so that, you
know, this -- what the -- what's the derby they used to have, a little->> Colby Tibbet: Boxcar.
>> Jim Woodward: -- boxcar deals. And we made those. And I remember that- again, making these undulations and so forth which was great for that,
for that use. But, they did have to move, move a lot of dirt. And as I
say, it was absolutely barren. There were certainly no trees. That's for
sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: Excellent. Can you talk a little bit about the history
and just a little bit about your father?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. He went by his initials -- he went by OJ before
OJ became infamous and had -- and there are a lot of stories about that.
But he went by OJ and he was the second of course because his grandfather
was still alive but his father actually wasn't OJ. So -- But he went to
Berkeley and then later to Harvard Business School and he came back to
Fresno in 1940 when his father died and stayed there ever since. And was
primarily involved in real estate development, property management as I
called it then, although many people didn't really know the terminology
or understand it much, but he devoted in his -- particularly his mid and
later years probably close to two-thirds of his time, his actual physical
time on projects, on non-profits. And he was very involved and started a
number of different organizations. He was involved with the art museum,
which was then known as the Art Center when they moved from downtown,
from the Vanderberg Home out to where they are now on Clinton known as,
of course, the Fresno Art Museum, which is much different and certainly
has grown. But he focused a lot on cultural arts because he felt that
those were often ignored. People were generally more connected with
social or health issue problems rather than the cultural arts, so he
focused a lot on that. But he also became involved in a number of our
local nonprofits and started a number of them. He was the first president
of the SPCA. He was involved with the zoo in the early, early times. He
was involved in the swimming programs. My sister, Beverly my older sister
and I were started in competitive swimming when we were eight or nine
years old, which was a little unusual in those, days but we were involved
and so he got involved. And so, he started some of the first swimming
programs and competitive swimming programs. He was involved in -- again,
a lot of projects that are unknown. Probably one of his better known
projects was he put the committee together to raise the money and then
select the art for the mall art downtown which is of course under
discussion right now quite a bit as to its importance and so forth. But
that was a very successful project and brought art to our area, which we
hadn't seen before. But he always had a project going, the Fresno
Regional Foundation was his concept. And he brought Lew Eaton involved
immediately and they got that off the ground and that has gone through
considerable growth and to where now it's really serving the purpose that
he always thought that it could. But some of these projects of course
take longer than others and the Regional Foundation has taken a number of
years to build the assets and the base to provide the kind of purpose and
asset to this community that he had in mind certainly.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about what the Fresno Regional
Foundation is, what it does and when it first started?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. The Regional Foundation is known as the community
foundation of which now there are quite a few throughout the country.
Back then, there weren't, there weren't so many. And the history, the -of community foundations is generally it takes a rather large gift or
more to really get it off the ground, to give it substance and assets.
And that took quite a few years to be honest, quite a few years. Many of
us served throughout that. We had to use a voluntary executive director
for many years. And that is certainly not the case now nor in the last
several directors. But it -- what its purposes is, is to attempt not only
to encourage philanthropy at a broad base but to get involved in making
decisions on priorities for the community and where it's needed. And as I
say early on with limited assets, of course, you couldn't do as much, but
now and particularly with collaboration with such foundations such as the
Irvine Foundation, it's been an incredible asset and important to that
growth. But--And then the federal grants and so forth, they're -- The way
that the Regional Foundation works now and they have a board of course
that's community board as well as executive director staff of eight or
nine now and they attempt to do what I mentioned. And that is on a very
broad base encourage philanthropy, but then also participate in trying to
be sure that these funds go into the right place. And that can get pretty
challenging at times. And -- but it -- It's particularly attractive too
for what we call planned giving and that in terms of where people have
significant resources and assets. And upon their death want to leave them
for the benefit of the community. They may not have -- either have
sufficient over and above what they need for their family or they may not
have a large family. And the reason I think it's particularly beneficial
is because sometimes with the individual nonprofits, there isn't the
self-control when things get challenging to protect endowments from
invasion and not really furthering the purpose for which those funds were
given. And that for some of us is very disturbing. And we've had -- we've
seen and had our funds frankly taken from endowments that their
motivation may be correct but the result is not. And whereas when you
have a sense of third party entity with independent judgment, if the
original entity fails, they can look to the next best, then the closest
similar purpose and again, try to fulfill what that original donor had in
mind. And then that's I think just being -- ethical and to the purpose
but with the failure of some of our nonprofits through a very -- for
various reasons, sometimes this doesn't occur. And that's why I say the - And the regional foundation now, I mean it's broadened its
participation and we’re actually involved in four or five counties and
constantly building its assets. And through them also, a lot of people
don't know that it's not just a case of giving funds or assets to the
regional fund. You can put them with them for management and they will
again through donor advise funds as we call them and other ways, even
independent foundations but with their management can be sure again that
those assets are protected and go to the right place.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you with your grand or with your father besides,
you know the things that they worked with, can you talk a little bit
about like -- his like personal interests, or his hobbies or anything
like that?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Sure. He had many interests of course and that -in those days -- really early days for like myself being in this area-well, among other things there weren't the organized sports for kids that
we have today. It was pretty much hunting and fishing and being in the
mountains and that type of activity. And so, that's what we did. And even
when I was a youngster, I mean we -- in our neighborhoods, we had
football teams and all that but nothing organized like today, which is a
whole other issue. But, it's really organized. But his interests were
largely in that and in art as I mentioned in the cultural arts, he was -He actually did quite a bit of sculpturing and other types, wood working.
And we always had a shop at home and he had a lot of interests and he
would spend most of the summers and or good part of the summers and we
had a cabin up at Huntington Lake, which my grandparents built in the
late 1920s. I mean they actually had two cabins. They built it on the
side now where there are mostly cabins. But at that time, there was no
road, so the most -- all that material was brought by boat. And it took
quite a while to build that cabin, but it -- it's quite a cabin by the
time they got it through. But as I did, I mean we spent most of the
summers up there and it was a very active place. And as was all of
Huntington Lake and Lakeshore and even down in Shaver Lake, a lot of
that’s changed and I think to some degree personally that a lot -- that
it's been influenced by the organized sports for the kids during the
summers where they just don't have that flexibility in that time. They
have to focus and they have to go to these camps and it's just a
different -- a different environment. My father, as far as business was
as I say, you know, primarily focused on real estate and developing what
we call neighborhood shopping centers and that type, it's small
subdivisions, small -- but his real -- I think his real love focus was on
other things other than just the business part. He had many other
interests.
>> Colby Tibbet: We still have a couple more family members that I have
here. Particularly, Beatrice Denke Woodward and Nadine. Is there
anything you want to talk a little bit about them or your aunt Atha
Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Let me -- Yeah. Let me just think here what might be the
more ->> Colby Tibbet: Or anything that you want, or we can jump to anything,
other topics that you want to talk about it’s entirely up to you?
>> Jim Woodward: I'm just trying to think what -- what might make sense
in terms of again connecting at, you know, to -- and I don't know whether
we ought to -- I mean, as far as, you know, my own kids and all of that
we can leave ‘til next time because of just again to keep some -- some.
We’ve, we had the foundation on that list. I was trying to think what
else anything we had, and we had quite a bit with Lew.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, you want to talk a little bit more about Lew Eaton
and the things that he has done or?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. I could talk because he felt that -- that his
role, he told me a number of times because we spend a lot of time
together. All kinds of different ways, mountains, playing tennis, golf,
and all this stuff. But he thought that his role in changing the location
of that park was probably one of the most important things he --he ever
did. And then later, which I'll, I can get to next time, when he passed
away, I got a group together and we came up with the idea of the Lewis S.
Eaton trail, which was just perfect for his situation and the family
liked loved it and everything else. So -- But I think we can ->> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit about the Fulton Mall and
the role your family and your father had in regards to it?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. As I mentioned, he was very focused on cultural
arts and he was involved in the very early years of the -- what's now the
Art Museum and other groups. And one of his -- I think most interesting
projects and lasting projects, well hope it's lasting, was when the
Fulton Mall was being formed and the succeeds and the designs and so
forth. He came up with the idea of raising money to bring in some really
major art works. And not just from well-known artists but from local
artists as well. And so, he formed a committee. He came up with a
somewhat of a new way of raising that money by putting a minimum on what
your contribution could be because he knew he didn't have a lot of time
to get it together, but which worked successfully although was
challenging too. So, this small committee made up of some artists as well
as himself and community leaders went out. And I actually went along a
couple of times when they interviewed, particularly local artists in
terms of what they might be interested in in offering and believe me they
weren't offering them as donations but, but they were very interested in
the project. And so, of course, what eventually evolved was everything
from a Renoir of the washing woman to some local pieces like there's a
granite piece by Newt Russell who was local attorney and a very good
family friend, we went in the back country a number of times together
with his boys. And also then other artists, but trying to bring a balance
of appropriate art that would make the whole Fulton Mall, you know, a
special, a special place. And in those years, it was a very special
place. And when I know even myself when I was again, out of law school in
the '60s and early '70s at lunch time, was a lot of business that on the
mall at the lunch break -- But the whole environment of course was quite
different. And the -- As you can imagine, there were many different
opinions when it comes to art, anyone who's been involved with art
particularly in a business sense, you know, in a business office or law
firm, usually get a very -- a lot of discussion about art one way or the
other. And which is good. And I think that brought a lot of interest to
the mall when it was first established. And, of course, more recent years
there's been discussion of possibly completely redesigning, if not
eliminating not only the art but the configuration of the whole mall,
which is a whole story into itself. And there again, as many -- probably
as many opinions as a number of people you talk with, but I think for the
most part, everyone agrees that that was a major improvement and
contribution. It should be protected to the extent possible. And if there
other driving forces that require street configuration and so forth,
that's one thing, but I hope we we’re sensitive to these things. And I'm
sure we're making and try to be sure we're making an improvement and not
just a change.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is about also like maintaining and preserving that
art itself.
>> Jim Woodward: And that that -- and that's a very good point because
like so many different situations, it's the maintenance and continued
protection of these valuable assets that is important and yet is probably
sometimes the most difficult to find the support for. But I must say,
several years ago, there were several efforts and actually made and
completed in terms of protecting -- There was a former councilman and
others who saw the need and I was very impressed because they did do
that. And I don't think the exact location always is that critical, you
know, providing again, it makes sense and it helps guarantee that
protection that we're all concerned about.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then can you talk a little bit more about during
this time, a lot of the other things that your father was invested in in
terms of changing structurally or different things that he wanted to make
improvements upon.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I think I previously mentioned his interest in
the swimming area, competitive swimming and so forth. And then, as part
of that, he was the one -- and I believe pretty much individually who
went to the schools and to the administration and convince them to put
the first swimming pools in our high schools. And I mean that was the
first. And it was accomplished and received. I know many, many
compliments and later too about the one thing, though, that occurred in
that situation was at that time, the kids weren't playing any water polo.
We did -- I hardly knew the sport at that point. And so, as a result, all
the pools in the high schools actually were not built deep enough for
good water polo play. And I know because our sons played. And frankly, it
can be dangerous. And it was in one situation and the recent being --
players get leverage off the bottom of the pool and that creates a
different dynamic. And in one of our son's case, it created quite a few
stitches. So, it's -- again, one of those things that has now though been
pretty well corrected overall and it was great to see and it -- But I do
think it helped without doubt start and certainly supported the interest
in swimming, or competitive swimming and probably water polo because, you
know, many of these -- many kids, of course, didn't have pools at their
homes or didn't have access to that type of activity. So, I think he, you
know, I think my dad felt a lot of satisfaction in that particular
project, but he always seem to have a project under consideration at
least.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk -- Can you name some schools that, you
know, initially were changed local -- here locally.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I know Fresno High. And I mean I read and I know
at that time and again I don't recall the exact timing when Hoover and
Bullard came along, but, of course, back in that time for sure, Roosevelt
and Edison and Fresno High School along with, of course, Memorial but as
far as the Unified School District, there were just three or four. And -and then it -- but I believed in each case even -- well I know for a fact
that Bullard, and I think Hoover as well, for sure also were too shallow
and had to be changed. Of course, a lot of that has now been corrected.
But -- And those days too. The system was much smaller. I mean, you could
deal directly with the superintendent of schools. You didn't have quite
the challenges with as many voices and some things were simplified
without a question.
>> Colby Tibbet: The bureaucracy and just the ->> Jim Woodward: Nope. Nope. Joke. That's just reality today I think.
Right -- right now -- well, it's a pattern. I guess one of a number and I
guess some -- maybe I mean, some of it I did understand but in more
recent years, I've never -- I haven't understood why some of these very
large homes are being built whether it's by the builder or the person
that's paying the bill. I mean, given all of the challenges and even
aside from water and everything else, just utilities and the whole bit
and I don't care how much money you have. It's not where I'm at. I -- I
am interested now because I happen to be a pretty close friend of Leo
Wilson who's built an awful lot of homes. And we have a group that has
lunch most Fridays and so forth. And so, we have a lot of history and
background. But, you know, here's somebody who built the biggest homes
and with, you know, a lot of -- and some pretty expensive, a lot of
molding, a lot of -- and now, I mean he's -- his average home, you know,
is really pretty small. And he not building it that big, but now other
people are -- I don't mean that, but I mean that's been interesting to me
‘cause he got into -- out of the dominion and all of that, all that -he's the first one that did any of that. And I used to take him -- go
down with him to Orange County ‘cause I was down there for five years
with a large builder Kaiser-Aetna. And which we had all kinds of product,
different types of product. And at Warner Center particularly which is
Woodland Hills. I mean, we did everything from Blue Cross headquarters to
tennis clubs to -- just all kinds of things. And so, I mean I’ve seen a
lot of change and so forth. But of course, ground, you know what, a lot
of it comes back to what the price of ground is. And since it was cheap,
that's why you go out. I mean, you don't go up. I mean, it’s simple. I
mean, really that part. That's why in New York and San Francisco, you
know, you could pay so much for that little pad that should make more
sense. So that drives a lot of it. But, I guess I still in this last
cycle and I’m talking like about the last -- say five? Ten, ten years
maybe. But -- And the last down cycle, people still going out and
building these crazy -- And I know some of them --and they’re not large
families. I'm not talking about if you've got ->> Colby Tibbet: Six kids ->> Jim Woodward: Seven kids, five, you know, or something else. I mean I
have a boy with seven children. So, I mean, I know you know, and but they
don't need that in there, you know, but I just think it's kind of
interesting how that's changed.
>> Colby Tibbet: And there's influx too. So, it'll be some years where
that's really in high demand or popular. But then you see this decrease
in more of a minimal, you know, a smaller setting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well there's definitely been a separation between, you
know, and I'm sure you're aware of this, out by the park and all that
development versus Old Fig Garden and Fresno High and all that. I mean,
it's just two worlds. And for a lot of people, that's a good point. Who
come from particularly -- I don't know why I'm thinking of Southern
California because I'm not, but they're used to something more similar to
that. And so, it's obviously more comfortable, you know, including our,
you know, even some of our kids have, you know, that's - -Even though
they kind of like to be somewhere else but it -- that's where it works
best for them economically and other way. So, I don't know. You know,
it's Old Fig is a story into itself, you know? I mean, I could -- I think
we were talking about. I mean, I can go down Wilson and Wishon and
identify most of them, most of the names over the last 50 or 60 years.
>> Colby Tibbet: I lived on Wishon, I lived in a home from the 1930s and
there was ->> Jim Woodward: Between what street?
>> Colby Tibbet: Wishon and Harvard. So, it’s a little bit closer to the
Fresno High area.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And ->> Jim Woodward: Sure. I know it.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's interesting the history that you learn about your
home, but then you go a couple blocks east or west and that history could
just be nonexistent --
>> Jim Woodward: Well, that's another thing. I mean it's very, very
spotty and different thing. In fact, for a short time, I mean, I lived in
Old Fig for quite a while but then I lived down by Hamilton, right there
on Farris. You know, I went to Fresno High for a while. And -- but then,
of course, huge difference when Bullard came along and things started
going north again. I mean, that changed the dynamics but -- But there's
something about, you know, Old Fig, it's just surely kind of amazing I
think.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely its own little microcosm within itself
of Fresno, definitely.
>> Jim Woodward: And it's, you know, plus and minus, you know I mean, but
it's got a lot of history. It’s really what intrigues me like right
across of my grandparents, again, Roy and, you know, even in his home had
a true library. I mean, which I don't think were that common. But right
across from them was Gilbert Jertberg. And Gilbert, he's -- he has been
the highest court judge that we've ever had come from here, he's on the
Ninth Circuit in the federal system, but he was a very good friend of my
grandfather's and he had a lot of connections at Stanford. And in that
house, I mean people like Herbert Hoover, Earl Warren and all these
people. And I almost tried to bite it one time just because of all this
history, you know, but it took a lot of work. And so, Stuart Woolf which
did it. And he did a good job. And -- but I mean there is a lot of
history around and there's history everywhere. I mean -- but, it's kind
of fun to reflect, you know, to -- But in a general sense, I guess one of
the things would surprise me a little -- a little bit is that it's taken
so long, I mean even with the barrier of the river. You know, even if you
stay to this side and go on up to the dam and, you know, how long that's
taken to develop. I mean things have really pushed east, you know, but of
course, Clovis was out there to -- most of all their school system that
made a huge difference and no question, no question. I mean that had a
big influence for -- I think it still does. I don't know to the degree it
does but ->> Colby Tibbet: I remember, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago that
was a huge deal for a lot of parents and it's definitely ->> Jim Woodward: Huge.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely balanced out. It's definitely balanced
out. I think a little bit more in terms of Bullard and Edison and all
these other schools who really ->> Jim Woodward: And I think because they changed the schools, the
programs with Edison Computech and all of that got their act together and
I think you're right and, of course, Buchanan, you know, the
superintendent out there, I mean he -- big influence and it was new, it
was different, it was, you know, very progressive and very competent. You
know, so it was--but that had a lot.
>> Colby Tibbet: So before you saw that Eastern push, you really were
thinking it was all -- it's going to head all the way up to Friant.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, probably feeling,
but you know what's happening right now across the river, you know, in
Madera County. There are some like McCaffrey and Gunner and I mean all
these -- big chunks —>> Colby Tibbet: The Tesoro ->> Jim Woodward: And it's going to take -- of course water continues even
before this thing. I mean water's been a huge issue and should be. I
mean, I think you had to give somebody credit. I mean, they were ahead on
that one. They stayed ahead on that one and didn't let them, because I
know Yule [assumed spelling] and Ben Yule and others, you know, they've
been for 20, 30 years been trying to do a lot more up there. But they've
held them back because of the water issue. And so, you know, I think
that, you know, that makes sense, but it's a, you know, it's an
interesting challenge with all of the local politics and then you of
course you throw in a little corruption here and there and that always
gets everybody going like with that whole deal that -- what they call it
out there. They called it Clovis, I mean, but it really wasn't so much -What was that -- deal that Tatham -- Bill Tatham started. They're the
same, but anyway, they sent several people to jail. I mean, wasn’t a
small deal. I mean it was, you know, not that everybody wasn't doing it,
but they nailed quite a few people and that kind of changed that dynamic
a little.
>> Colby Tibbet: With your early life, maybe a little bit about your
childhood, where you were, where you lived and then kind of maybe move
transition into college, and early education.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I was actually born in Oakland, California
because my parents were living in the Bay Area at the time. My dad had
just come back from Harvard Business School and was working in San
Francisco. And so that was in the late 1930s. But in 1940, my grandfather
passed away and so we moved back to Fresno. And I was in Fresno schools
up through most of high school and then eventually went to UC Berkeley
for undergraduate and was there until 1958 when I did have to serve in
the military for just six months active duty, but in reserve -- in
reserves for a number of years thereafter. Upon completing that tour, if
you will, with the US army and I was involved in artillery and guided
missile school area and was at Fort Sill. Upon returning however, then I
worked for a short time with PG&E in San Francisco and some small
securities companies and -- But then entered Stanford Business School in
1959 and graduated in 1961. From there, I went back across the Bay, if
you will, to Berkeley for law school. And graduated from there in 1964
and returned to Fresno for a short time with a law firm and practiced
law. But within about a year, I was asked to join the legal staff for the
UC Regents. And that was again, you know, about 1966, which was a very
interesting time on the Berkeley campus as we recall. And also
interesting from the standpoint that Ronald Regan had just been elected
governor and was, of course, on the Board of Regents and there was quite
a difference of approach between the administration at that time at UC
and the Board of Regents. The Board of Regents at that time was composed
of some very well known individuals like Norton Simon and Dorothy
Chandler and Catherine Hearst and all names that most people recognized
at the time. But also pretty, pretty conservative philosophy whereas the
administration in many areas was quite different and of course it was -a lot of turmoil at that time with all that was going on on campus and so
forth. But I enjoyed that and learned a lot, I think about some of the
ramifications of the political scene and enjoyed it a lot. But in -after a couple years, I returned to Fresno and joined the law firm of -at that time. It was Gallagher, Baker, Manock, myself and Wanger. And of
course Ollie Wanger went on to be a federal court judge for many years
and now practices in Fresno. About 1972 or three, I decided I wanted to
diverse a little bit in terms of getting into the -- at least the
potential possibility of being more in management than just from legal
matters. And the -- So I joined the -- A firm by the name of Kaiser Aetna
which was a partnership between Kaiser Aluminum and Aetna Life Insurance.
It was worldwide actually, but headquartered in Oakland. And so I moved
to Newport Beach and within one year I was made the regional manager as
well as also able to do the legal work for that particular area and that
was very rewarding and interesting time. About five years after I joined
Kaiser Aetna, they determined that they were not particularly compatible
partners because Kaiser Aluminum of course was a manufacturing company
basically and tended to count the widgets at the end of the year. And
whereas Aetna understood the real estate area a little bit more and the
primary function of this company was real estate development and as I
say, throughout the world. When it became clear they were not going to
continue to exist, I of course began to think about other opportunities
and I was actually offered to be the first general council for the Irvine
Company in 1977. But unfortunately, the family was having some difficult,
some misunderstandings if you will, and so they could never quite get
that finalized in a shorter term. So I returned to Fresno which obviously
set my whole life again in a different -- a little bit, in a different
direction. And I came back and joined with First Savings and Loan which
was a local small savings and loan who'd been a client of mine and ours -earlier when I was in practice.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is this is in 1977 correct?
>> Jim Woodward: This is in 1977, correct. And so I was able to be both
an in-house corporate council, also have a private practice on the side
and do a certain amount of real estate development for them in terms of
joint ventures at that time. I continued to do that until -- for several
years and then, First Savings and Loan merged with Central Savings, which
was a fairly large S and L at that time headquartered in San Diego. And
so I almost moved down there, but I stayed here and continued in private
practice and so forth until about 1985, mid 80s, Lew Eaton, who was the
President and CEO of Guarantee Savings and Loan asked me to join them.
For several reasons and several capacities, one was to do some
reorganization of the company since it was growing very rapidly. And also
particularly to build a large headquarters for them, and to put a team
together to build this in which we did and we put -- and within nine
months we're ready to break ground, out actually directly across from
Woodward Park. And it was quite a -- it's a 30-acre project which three
buildings initially and then it would become eventually four -- four. And
about eight days before groundbreaking, in fact the wine glasses were
etched and everybody was ready to go. It was discovered that the Chief
Financial Officer for Guarantee Savings had placed us in a very
unfortunate position, financially and so that project had to be abandoned
and at that time, the company went in to a mode of looking again for a
merger, and to be sold because again of the risk involved, the management
and owners, and by that time Guarantee was a public company but it was
family-controlled in terms pretty much here in our area. So, eventually
there was a merger with Glendale Federal, which then later, after a
couple of steps became a part of Citibank actually and still is. So that
was kind of my history in terms of dealing particularly with the real
estate development, but then the financial end of it because I did stay
on with Glendale Federal for three and a half years and was on their
executive committee, in loan committees and so forth. But because -- just
geographically it became a little bit of a challenge and because we did
have operations in Florida and the State of Washington as well as
California and so forth. And so about that time, again needed to
transition and look for a different activity and I returned to private
practice in this area and ->> Colby Tibbet: Can you explain elaborate why you made that decision?
What was the -- your motives or your ideas behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, what was happening essentially was the financial
institutions, which I've been involved with primarily S and L’s during
from -- for quite a few years there. There was a series of mergers and it
was a bunch of transitional period and most of those and all eventually
became headquartered in larger cities. And so it limited the
opportunities in terms of particularly in banking and so forth. And by
that time, most of the S and L’s have become actually banks and in
banking. And it was an easy transition for me as far as private law
practice because again, I had pretty much kept a common theme and what I
was doing although it sounds like a lot of different organizations, and
that common theme was real estate, both in its management and its
development and so forth. So, so it made -- It continued to make sense.
If I wanted to particularly, if I wanted to stay in this area butch, by
that time, I was pretty settled in and so forth.
>> Colby Tibbet: Settled in, can you talk a little bit about when did,
when did -- Between working all these jobs when did you meet your wife?
You know, that’s kind of important, right. I mean ->> Jim Woodward: That's very important. Well actually I met my wife, my
first wife Diane in -- at Berkeley and then we separated many years
later, 20 years later, basically. And had two children, a boy and a girl
and at that time, and then was frankly single for a number of years,
about 16 or 17 years and was remarried in 1989 to Judith Knapp who is a
psychologist as well as a registered nurse and so forth. And together
combined, we have four children and they've all done very well. And it's
been a lot of fun because particularly when we had the, had two boys, one
at Stanford at the same time as one was at Cal, which, of course, I've
been an alumnus of both. So that was great, during big game time and all
the other activities. But I'm very pleased that I made the choice to
return and to become, you know, a part of the community in the way that
my family had, you know, previously.
>> Colby Tibbet: Was that something you always had a goal or, you know,
an ideal for, was that to come back and contribute in that way?
>> Jim Woodward: Well I always thought I would but, you never know
because as I mentioned, the Irvine Company opportunity that that would've
probably taken a very different turn since many of the people I worked
with down there -- in fact my counterpart from Chicago became President
of the Irvine Company, the fellow who bought it Don Bren we worked with a
lot when I was at Kaiser Aetna. So, with all of those connections if you
will, I probably would have led to a different situations but I'm -- I've
always been so pleased that I was able to come back and from the time I
did, I became engaged in a number of local activities and feel it's
really an important part of my life and it's given me a great deal of
satisfaction.
>> Colby Tibbet: So after your private service or your private, doing
private law practice -- excuse me, what was after that, what did, you
know, this was like around 2003 at this time.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Well I went and -- I'm with several -- Actually,
when I transitioned out of Guarantee, McCormick Barstow Law Firm had been
our law firm for many years. And that was an easy transition. And then,
eventually however, I ended up back in my old, original law firm Baker,
Manock and Jenson. As -- of council which is -- can mean almost anything
but in my case, it was where I'm -- still practice, but I'm not doing as
much or I'm not as confined to that as certainly -- the attorneys or
associates would normally be. But that has also permitted me again to be
fairly active in a variety of local non-profits. And along the way too,
which in addition to the non-profits, I've served on the board of
Gottschalks, which was, again a family-owned company, which went public.
And I served on that board for about 15 years before it eventually was
closed under very unfortunately circumstances because it, we were doing
quite well and providing a lot of employment and to so forth and it
served the community I think very well. But GE Capital decided they
wanted to reduce their amount of financing and that's what lead to that - and that's what triggered that -- that action where it was closed. And
what's kind of coincidental is just this last couple of weeks, GE has
announced they're getting completely out of capital financing and so
forth. So sometimes, you don't have control over those things just like
with Guarantee Savings, which I mentioned -- which was forced again to
merge due to certain economic and business considerations. I've always
thought it was interesting that two significant businesses in our
community have very parallel histories. They both were originated and
created in approximately the year 1900 and both celebrated a hundred year
anniversary but both are gone and they were companies, which had definite
philosophies in the terms of how they treated their customers and how
they approach business. And I think served the community well, both
family-owned but both went public eventually. And it's just again
economic circumstances sometimes drives these situations which don't
always serve maybe the best interest of as many people as we'd like, so.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about -- you know, you talked
about Gottschalks, more about the nonprofits or the community benefit
organizations that you've been a part of?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Before I do that, I'll just mention -- the only
other for-profit company, which I did serve, which was publicly listed as
well and turned out to be an energy company, it originally was called the
Ag Zone, it was an ecommerce approach to dealing with agricultural
products. Unfortunately, our timing was just a little off. And it
eventually transitioned after several steps into an energy company
headquartered in Houston. And I did serve eventually as chairman of that
board. But it finally again merged into another company. But it was
primarily focused on what is now fairly well-known, not at that time it
wasn't and that is this horizontal drilling approach to extracting oil
from the ground. And it's been revolutionary in many respects and is
being seen right now. But again, it took several years for that to
transition as we work through it.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that was done here at Central California, so this
very revolutionary and pioneering technology was being applied here. And
then now we see it everywhere.
>> Jim Woodward: Exactly. And of course currently, the whole oil
industry’s been very much in the news and very, again very if not
controversial, very topical, you know, in terms of what is going on and
so forth. But that was again an interesting experience. Regarding the
nonprofits, I always felt I was -- It was sort of an automatic thing for
me to do because my father had been very involved as I’ve mentioned
before in a number of local nonprofits and then created a number of
entities which still exist today. So when I came back in the mid 60's out
of law school, I immediately got involved with actually Storyland and
which before, it became more of a part of Rotary. But also the old Fresno
Art Center, which is now the Fresno Art Museum and I became -- Came on
those boards and actually became president of both of them eventually.
And then even though I left town as I mentioned earlier, I still stayed
somewhat connected and so when I returned, I immediately got involved in
other similar activities and eventually, that included at that time the
Zoological Society, the Historical Society, the -- eventually became
involved with the Visitors and Convention Bureau. And was on that board
and president and then I became involved in Fresno State particularly and
was on their foundation board for over 15 years, I guess. And as well as
St. Agnes Hospitals Foundation Board and the Fresno Regional Foundation
Board as well and was Chairman of that for several times. So, I just have
always -- it's always been a kind of part of my life and I never was able
to devote quite the same percentage of time that my father did
particularly. But I -- But a significant amount of time and I found it
extremely gratifying. Some of the other projects, the Japanese Shinzen
Garden at Woodward Park on their advisory board and have stayed involved.
They -- I think they’re a great contribution, you know, to both the park
and to the whole community. But it's -- it’s very rewarding as you can
imagine.
>> Colby Tibbet: And has been so rewarding -- and even recognized for it
before, correct? I'm reading that you were the philanthropist of the year
of 2009, you were granted with that award?
>> Jim Woodward: That was--That was a very nice honor from the
Association of Professional Fundraisers. And it was nice to be
recognized, of course. I think probably for many of us in the community,
the -- if not the ultimate that the recognition that some of us probably
cherish the most is Leon Peters Award because it -- and I was fortunate
enough to know Leon quite well. And had the great opportunity, the first
time I was ever asked to go out and seek contributions from anyone from - and it was probably at that time -- for the art center, but he was the
ideal person to go to, to have -- to me to have to go to, to ask for
because it was his whole life. And so, he spent a lot of time with me,
gave me a lot of good ideas. And it's one of those things I remember
significantly, you know, greatly.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, currently what are you working on right now?
>> Jim Woodward: At the moment, I'm a -- I'm a Director Emeritus of the
Regional Foundation. So, I stay involved with their nominating committee
and so forth. I stay involved also on emeritus, Governor Emeritus for the
foundation, Fresno State Foundation. So, I try to stay involved in that.
I'm on the Board of Directors now of St. Agnes Hospital which is quite
challenging given what healthcare is today. That -- And I've only been on
for several months now, but I with my background from the foundation,
it's made it somewhat easier, but it's extremely challenging. And I think
is time very well -- very well-spent. I'm on the Board of Trustees of the
Central Sierra Historical Society, which is the group that built the
small museum up in Shaver Lake and is attempting again to keep the
history intact. And very, very active group and are doing some nice
things up there, I think.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms of, this is more of a broad ->> Jim Woodward: Sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- question out of a big picture. And of all -- and all
these things that you've done and in terms of like where you work in
community organizations and part of these achievements, what are some of
the things that you can talk about, maybe that you wish had more time for
or things you could’ve developed more either for yourself as a hobby or
as a community? Is there anything that you think back be like, man, I
could have, you know, I shouldn't have done that or something? Not
necessarily like a regret but just more like an acknowledgement of
something you wish you had more time to do.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, to be honest, I wish I had just more time, period.
There is so much to be done. I mean, right now, our -- so many of our
community benefit groups as they're now called and more often than
nonprofits, but the same, the same thing are in constant need. And the
two are -- the two areas that I've seen particularly prevalent in those
groups, particularly those that I call stand alones that are not tied
either to a university system or to a hospital system or where there's
more structure, the biggest problem and it's just universal, the best I
can tell are pretty much anyway, continuity of leadership is a real
problem when you have a volunteer group. So as you can imagine, there's
nothing to really keep that together and on a regular basis. And when you
lose that continuity, in many cases, you place the organization at risk,
very much so. The other common element that I've seen is the lack of the
ability to establish financial stability particularly for operating
costs, year to year operating costs. It's always been relatively easy.
It's not as easy today because the numbers are so large. But
historically, it's been rather easy to find capital money and build a
structure if you will. The challenge has always been to build the base
and the foundation to be able to run it and to have a constant source of
income and so forth, because in the general -- in the majority cases,
your admission prices, your memberships and those kinds of things will
not sustain a larger operation. So, what we've -- what I've certainly
tried to encourage and others certainly too, is to build endowments. And
they can often come best through planned giving, through wills and
others, or even grants and whatever. But to build endowments which can
help provide sustainability and particularly, I like the idea of the
regional foundation because it separates it from the actual entity and
protects it in as much as too often we've – We’ve found when some of the
groups get into financial stress. They will invade these endowments or at
least borrow against them, which amounts to the same thing, amounts to
the very same thing because at the end of the day, if it fails, that
endowment’s gone. And I face this with the Met failure and others. I was
given the task of liquidating all the art that remained at the
Metropolitan Museum when it closed several years ago. And that took a
couple of years, we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,400 items. I
mean -- and they had to be disposed of and the art for the most part was
disposed through auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christie's and
others. And -- But it's very disappointing because needless to say, it
does -- it does not help in the future raising of funds and showing
responsibility and accountability when that happens. And those original
donors are very likely to become concerned, which they should be. And so,
we need to work on that. And I can honestly say, I think there's a number
of community benefit organizations that have been here for over 50 years,
which are still struggling and are not really financially stable and some
have considerable assets at risk. So, we need to improve on that. And
there's always plenty of challenges out there and to do. I believe that
maybe we’ve, through good motive but maybe not such good circumstance,
we’ve initiated and we've created probably too many entities in some
areas through again good motivation, but not good management and we're
overlapping and probably could do better in coordinating some of these
efforts. Because the motivation is usually good, but sometimes again our
ability to manage in a responsible way isn't quite what it could be. So,
we can always work on that.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, what's next for Jim Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I'm at the point -- I try not to take on more than
I can comfortably handle. Fortunately, I am -- my time is pretty flexible
and I can do it, but right now, I can tell you the St. Agnes Board is
very much a full time. And I say full time, it honestly can be and I'm
just so impressed by the dedication, frankly not only of that, of the
board itself, I mean the key board members they'll spend a large
percentage of their time and fortunately are able to -- I mean day-to-day
on things, let alone the staff which is extremely committed and very,
very, very impressive, I think. But healthcare, of course is a very big
issue today from all aspects, financial and then importance significance
-- of some importance, but now with the government at all levels being
involved and thus the entire system embedded in political environment
suggest that it's going to -- that it's challenging. And it is, it is.
And no one -- I don't believe. I'm convinced that no one has a simple
answer or knows exactly where we are as we have heard from our
politicians and others. I mean it's extremely complex and the cost not
to—the least of which the cost is very difficult to get a handle on and
to control. And I could -- I think anyone could spend the rest working on
that -- on that one. So that's a real priority right now for me. And I -I've always liked to be involved with the cultural arts, which I am and I
know that it can't be left out. Sometimes I think we tend to forget the
benefits from say an area like that not realizing what it does in terms
of affecting human behavior and our standard of living and our whole
lifestyles, but there -- as I say, there are plenty of challenges, that
we know.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, you want to talk a little bit about your teaching?
You know, about where you taught, what you did?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. We can do -- sure. I mean, just because again, I
think -- I mean those are the things I've enjoyed the most, you know, and
they’re all different for different reasons, you know. But ->> Colby Tibbet: Let’s start -- let’s start where you first started
teaching and when.
>> Jim Woodward: Okay. My first teaching, if you will, experience was
when I was in law school. I did some teaching and grading and so forth
over in the business school since I had, again, been to business school
before. I -- it was a nice diversion and it gave me a little variety. I
find I do better if I -- I'm able to have a little diversity in my
activities. So, I really enjoyed I worked with the dean over at that time
at the hospitals and school. And that was my first, I guess, true role as
a teacher, reader, or whatever at that time. But later, when I had some
little more flexibility here in Fresno, my first position was as an
adjunct professor at the business school here at Fresno State and taught
primarily business law and business-related subjects for several years.
And then later, I taught several times out of Fresno Pacific. Probably my
favorite class was organizational behavior, which was both of course a
business and a psych class, but ->> Colby Tibbet: It's relatively unique, I think.
>> Jim Woodward: And it brought -- multiple disciplines. So -- And
apparently interested the students more because we had a very good group,
strong group of students. And also, it gave me the chance to bring in
some individuals in the community such as the mayor and others, and other
successful business people and so forth to share their experiences and so
forth. So, that was certainly one of my favorite classes that I taught.
And then I did teach for a while evening classes at Fresno City College
and primarily in personal finance. And that was very rewarding because
these students really did want to learn, sometimes they were more
motivated than some other students just because, I mean they really
wanted to get as much information as they could on how to manage their
own personal affairs and so forth. So, all of those types of positions
have been very rewarding. And I think any time you can share experience,
I don't now how much knowledge, but experience with -- and help obviously
the students get a head start or -- and hopefully steer them away from
mistakes that can be avoided. And so that's extremely gratifying.
>> Colby Tibbet: I think it's also interesting that not even the range of
places that you taught the institutions, right? The variance between
let’s say, Fresno City or at Stanford, you know what I'm saying? Like
it's -- it kind of reflects just, you know, the -- your occupations and
your jobs and the community benefited organizations you've been a part of
and through your teaching, you know? So I ->> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- think that's really interesting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, you know, I've always said -- felt that it's like
giving a talk or so forth. It's obviously much easier when you've had
some experience or some of the -- and at least believe that you know what
you're talking about as opposed to the alternative. So -- And it's
gratifying just to share -- to share thoughts because when you're
teaching, I mean very often you learn as much -- first of all, you have
to really refresh yourself in terms of knowing what you're talking about.
And that's a great test of -- I think of where you are with handling a
particular material because it's pretty hard. Well, you cannot teach
effectively, obviously, if you haven't. And so it forces you to focus.
And then once you're actually in the classroom and I'm sure people have
heard many professors and teachers say this, but you learn so much, you
know, from the students, obviously more -- some than others but it is. I
mean it's just a great discipline. It's a great learning experience, both
ways, I think with the difference between Fresno State and Fresno
Pacific. But part of that can have to do with, you know, whether lower
division or upper -- you know, and I mean that's just natural that in
some classes, degree required classes and so forth, they're not going to
have as much interest from the students and then, you know, they're not
going to be into it as much as possibly a senior who's really focusing on
what they think they're going to be doing when they get, well you know.
It's just practical aspects but, but it's fun to share and -- And of
course even in continuing education, part for attorneys, we basically are
teaching each other, I mean, all the time. I mean because who gives the
classes and so forth. So, a lot -- know, you know a lot of the classes,
so to me -- I suppose teaching -- you know, when you don't want it to
stop, I mean in terms of at least sharing with whether it's your kids or
friends, or peers, or whatever.
>> Colby Tibbet: The venue doesn't change. You're always doing it, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, yeah ->> Colby Tibbet: I mean the venue changes but you're always doing it --
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a fine line but I don't
know. It's been an interesting ride, you know? I've been really blessed.
So, I mean I -- I've had so many opportunities and I just think, you
know, the more opportunities that you're given, then the more obligation
you have to share and to do things -- I mean you -- come on, you got -- I
mean you got to give -- I mean we are -- when I reflect back and think of
where the opportunities we have, I mean I don't care where the United
States or at least during my generation compared to the rest of the
world, you know? I mean -- I mean percentage wise? I mean, it's just -- I
mean we’re all very fortunate. I don't think there's any doubt about
that.
>> Colby Tibbet: Also to acknowledge -- to give back or to reflect and be
able to ->> Jim Woodward: I mean what if you were born in situations for every
morning, I mean, you wake up, you're looking at survival, not, you know,
whether, what you're going to have for lunch, you know, come on. And
fortunately, we've had it pretty -- pretty well and particularly my gen,
we’ve, as I say, it's been pretty -- pretty easy. I mean, you know, so ->> Colby Tibbet: But then, I was -- like you said, not to just take that
for granted and not do anything with that, right? As to give back or to
do something to contribute?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and the reality is and -- I mean, the reality is
and I mean, people say this but unless you've done it, I'm not sure, say
it with the same amount of heart and so forth is that you get back. You
get back so much more than you give -- I mean, it does, you know, it's
hardly fair, you know, I mean in that sense. I mean it's not -- I don't
think -- I mean, obviously, I think it's nice that people rewarded for
the things that they do but you really do -- I think the starting point,
though, on a lot of this, I know with my kids, I've talked a lot about,
tried to get them all involved in some form of competition or some kind
of sports or something. So, they realize that, you know, there's a direct
correlation, and yeah, there are some glitches, but it's direct
correlation about how much effort you've put in and what you're going to
get back out. I mean, and if they can learn that, if somebody learns that
fairly early, I think what's happening in a lot of instances, and again,
I am no psychologist, I’ll leave that to my wife. But I think -- I mean I
think it's pretty clear that, you know, you exercise a certain amount of
discipline and you’ve -- and you’ve give -- you're going to get a lot
back, you know. And what I like about sports is you -- it's pretty
immediate. You know, I mean, I did a lot of competitive swimming and,
well, every sport. Those days, we could in high school, you can do a lot
of sports, now you can only do one pretty much but I mean even playing
rugby at Cal and even freshman football, believe it or not. But rugby and
all, I mean it -- and I'm just glad. You know, I think that's what that
experience should be, you know, of figuring that out, not collecting
trophies but I just, just figuring that out that there is a correlation.
It may not be perfect.
>> Colby Tibbet: ‘Cause that’s more applicable to the rest of your life
as opposed to, like you said, a trophy, right, you know?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. And about the only other thing I've tried to press
my kids is that, you know, the more you do to build in your foundation
because I look at education as permanent, kind of broad and you've kind
of go this way. But the more you can build in the opportunity for
choices, that probably the better off you're going to be because I
certainly found that if hadn't been able to move a little, you know, and
I guess the reason I say this is because when I -- in the early 70's,
when I was trying to decide what to—kind of where to go next because I
found that the straight practice of law is a little bit limited. It's a
little bit repetitious and so forth. So I talked to quite a few older
attorneys, older that time, you know. I don't know what they were -- but
honestly, I found an awful lot on who weren't happy with what they were
doing and yet they were locked in. I mean they were -- and they had to
stay there because of the economics and, I mean, there worse places I'm
sure to be locked in but having said that, it's awfully nice to have some
flexibility to be able to make a few turns when you ->> Colby Tibbet: I guess it's kind of like the initial goal of higher
education as opposed to what it is a lot now where it's very vocational,
where it's like you're going to be a chemist so that’s all you're going
to focus on as opposed to, let's say, prior, maybe a decade or two where
it's about that variance, right, to be varied, you know, broad citizen to
be able to contribute in a multitude of ways as opposed to just one.
>> Jim Woodward: Well that's true and that is a problem. It's interesting
because my youngest son who is an engineer and -- eventually got a PhD,
actually and as well as masters and stuff and then robotics and so forth.
He just is -- Well, what's interesting to me is way back at Berkeley in
our fraternity, we had an engineer or two, and at that time, I felt so
badly for these people because they couldn't take any classes. They were
-- All they could take, I remember distinctly, I mean it was just -That's terrible. That's not education in full. It's fine but and sure
enough, our son who and you know, he is mid-30s now but as he got out and
started trying to figure it out, he just made the choice just the last
month of instead of getting in the ladder because Google and some of them
had been chasing him and so forth, rather than getting in a corporate
ladder for engineers, he took a job as a CTO over in Las Vegas with a
smart, you know, 50, probably something -- Laser and 3D outfit which
where he can be over -- I think he's over about a dozen people but to get
the management to get that exposure and to build in more flexibility to
see and some of these working with electrical, chemical and civil
engineers, you know. So, it’s -- it is interesting, you know, and you're
right. I mean, you know, and that's not all bad because I mean for some,
that works and it fits, but some, it doesn't is my only point.
>> Colby Tibbet: You know, it could be also a good thing that, you know
higher education or college could provide both of those. So, but I do
feel there’s a danger of more of the ladder seeping in as opposed to what
it used to be, so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, it's an interesting ride particularly when you get
to where I am -- at this point. You know, but I think it's important
never to get too locked in and if you can again, yeah. I mean if you can
have some flexibility and again it just worked better for me. I -- but
I'm sure there's others where there's more security and they'd feel more
secured just -- saying oh, and that’s nothing wrong with that. It's just
that wouldn’t have worked for me so much and I guess my feeling is if you
provide the opportunity both ways but to stay locked in, fine, you really
haven’t really lost much. But if you go the other way and do one or maybe
take a little different direction and can't, it's kind of sad but, you
know, we never -- it's hard to get it right, perfect every time. Somehow,
all of our decisions aren’t -- in fact, I'll never forget the orientation
at Stanford business school first day, they said, "If you can make the
correct decision, business decision, 50% or more of the time you're going
to be really successful." You know, I kind of got mine and then, of
course, then I went to law school and they didn't buy that. I don't think
that -- that didn't, that doesn’t sell for those people, but anyway. So,
it all depends on the audience, I guess, or the group you're working with
and so forth, so -- and I’m trying to think what the course was, but the
great thing at the business school is they, as particularly, as compared
with law school, they actually they force you to write a lot of papers of
all kinds, short, long, all kinds -- but they actually graded them. I
mean, they actually read them. They actually marked them up and they -Frankly, most of the law school professors were way too -- they're no way
they were going to spend that kind of time. They just, and they didn't -so they didn't have many writing courses. But I remember, in one class,
which I forgot which one it was. He, the professor circled all the I's,
you know, and said, you know, be careful when you're writing about I, I,
I, you know, and I don't know. I just always remember that and I
sometimes, I see that with people -- They don't realize what they're
doing and it's not that they're bad people, it was just that they don't,
you know -- So I have -- but when you're talking about yourself, you kind
of have to say I, you know. It's hard not to ->> Colby Tibbet: But I think it’s effective because what I was trying to
do is creating, like, anecdotal anchors, it's like what I like to call
it, or it's like, I would interject and give the basis for you able to
talk about yourself with some type of anchor to bring it back for people
who might, you know, for anyone to who’s paying attention or to anyone
who's going to be watching this or listening to it that they'll know,
"oh, this is why he's talking about it because it kind of leads into it."
>> Jim Woodward: No, and the good -- I mean you've added a lot of good, I
think, a good direction and just by which -- And the only reason I can
compare is because as we talked at lunch that Tammy was aware when they
did the other one with Michael. And I know more and more and then Marcie
just mentioned I guess more and more that they're going this route, you
know, and so the more techniques, you know, to help us when we’re in this
-- because we don't think about it.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, your seat is much harder than I am I’m fully aware
->> Jim Woodward: I know, I know. Well, you know, I've always -- it kind
of backed if you know your material then it, you know, it's pretty easy
to give a talk but if you don't, it's kind of tough or if you're not
telling the truth, it's really tough. But I mean, if -- you know, so that
part doesn't bother me as much. But I just think it's great that it's
going to all this trouble because I mean there's a lot of resources by
the time you put every -- I didn't, you know, even realize until lunch
what kind of what was going on in that regard. So, I think that's great.
>> Colby Tibbet: And also you need comparisons when you talk about
Gottschalks and at also Guarantee how they both started in 1990, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well hundred, yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: 1900, excuse me, so a little big difference.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And how they pushed together, like I knew about the
history of Gottschalks and I knew a little bit about Guarantee but I
didn't know ->> Jim Woodward: Really parallel.
>> Colby Tibbet: How I mean just how parallel they were? So I mean that's
and that’s interesting to so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and it's just I happened to be, you know, in a
little different roles but involved with both and, of course, I knew the
families and all that. But it, the only bad part about it was it was sad
that the end result, just due to circumstances beyond every anybody’s
control. I mean it just -- But in both cases, you know, I it's hard not
to reflect back and say, you know, OK if that hadn’t happened, you know,
where would they be and could they have survived and in my humble
opinion, they definitely could have survived because there is no
difference between what Guarantee had and now Central Value Bank or just
these local banks. I mean there're no difference at all. There is no -Gottschalks, we would have run circles around Kohl’s and some of these
others. And, yeah, we didn't make the shareholders the kind of money we
would've liked and we had a lot of -- because we're competing with Tar -we’re competing with everybody in the world. I mean it was just -- But
that doesn't mean it had to go and that's what's frustrating, you know,
when you see something that didn't need to happen and it can happen so
quickly in business world. I mean, it’s just it’s -- Well, or even the ecommerce thing. We had a good deal going at Ag Zone, we were just about
six months late and so that thing unraveled and gosh, we went through all
different -- the vertices was another part of that and but all different
-- kind of spin-offs. And then it was almost by accident that we got into
this to the energy field. But part of that had to do with some technology
involving the ability to communicate out to wellheads and so forth and
so, anyway that it was technology that provided that connection. And it's
just interesting sometimes how business can go that direction and -- but
dealing with the people down in Houston, Texas is another interesting -It was a real redneck down there. They’re just, I mean, they are -- it's
something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: I went to Texas for the first time in January and I went
San Antonio and he was actually there not too long ago too.
>> Jim Woodward: Really?
>> Camera Operator: I go to Houston all the time. I live in Houston.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh, really?
>> Camera Operator: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: That's a kick, because my oldest son was in San Antonio
quite a while and -- But I just -- I mean, of course, I mean I like a lot
of what they're after but it, it is a kick.
>> Colby Tibbet: It was fine, I was telling my friends I was going to
Texas and they're everybody’s like, "Oh, man, be careful." I absolutely
loved it. I loved everything about Texas. So, it's absolutely -- it's
such a -- and I think it's the same thing with people who aren't from
California perceive California that same thing. Because I went there and
I was expecting just the worst and no, amazing people.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: Not very much different from -- San Antonio reminded me
a lot of Fresno in terms of its people with just the kind of attitude
that they had. So that was kind of cool.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh I didn’t, I mean like any travel after a while, it
gets old.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, I think next is that I don't know the next process
that we would hand it to you --
relation to the campus?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. I'm Jim Woodward. My full name is O. James
Woodward III. And that's just to keep identification straightforward
within the family more than anything.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, we're going to start with your great grandfather,
Oscar James Woodward, just more of like an oral history of your family.
Can you talk about the -- your great grandfather in terms of his early
years before Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. My great grandfather and mother came in the
late 1870s, to Fresno from Clinton, Illinois, via Phoenix, Arizona
actually. And his main interests were in real estate, and in financial
issues and so forth. But, that's when it all started in terms of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you mentioned you want to talk about his
business partner, Jacob Vogel, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: You got me there, because ->> Colby Tibbet: And then so, he was in banking? I’m imagining, correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Yes.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: He -- My great grandfather along with a couple of others
started one of the very first banks in Fresno, the First National Bank of
Fresno, and from there, it eventually was merged into Bank of Italy,
which of course later became the Bank of America. And he was actually on
the board of the Bank of America when he passed away in 1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: And so, his reasons and goals for Fresno can you -- can
you touch on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well -- And again, in those days, the very beginning of
Fresno really in many ways, there wasn't much in terms of large numbers,
but he was very interested in the development of the real estate
particularly as well as I say the financing area. And he unfortunately
lost his wife, Anna in the late 1919 I believe it was. And in fact
there's a fountain in her memory that's in the Fresno County Courthouse-park and which my aunt, Atha Woodward O'Connor actually designed in her
memory in 1919. But, I as mentioned, he didn't actually pass away until
1935.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned a little bit about his influence in the
community, can you elaborate a little bit more about that like how it
started and, you know, just how it grew?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, of course, this is all hearsay from a standpoint
that I was fortunate enough when I returned to Fresno after law school in
the mid '60s there were still a number of individuals here who I've met
who had done business with my great grandfather. So, that was kind of fun
for me. And apparently, he was very involved in the community and, of
course, in financing much of what was going on which also developed other
relationships. So, as I say, he primarily focused on the real estate and
the banking business.
>> Colby Tibbet: Besides Fresno he talks – he mentioned a little bit
about his international travels and the things that he did outside of
Fresno. Can you-- can you touch up on that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, all I know, I know he did travel quite a bit and
he probably, I suspect had a little more flexibility because again, his
wife had passed away, you know, quite early, early on. But, he -- as I
say actually passed away just about 3 months after I was born. So, I
didn't have much of a chance to have much dialogue although he apparently
did dictate if you will in those days what my name would be. So, that's
how it ended up with the third.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then so, we're going to jump to your grandfather?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely.
>> Colby Tibbet: Roy J. Woodward->> Camera Operator: Pause it really quick.
>> Colby Tibbet: So we’re moved to your grandfather Roy J. Woodward, can
you talk a little bit about him and in terms his role in Fresno or in
California?
>> Jim Woodward: Oh sure. Absolutely. What I might start with is my great
grandparents had actually four children. One passed away at birth
actually, just very shortly after birth, but there were three others, two
boys and one girl. And that was when my grandfather, who we'll talk a
little more about. My great uncle who we shall also talk about who was
Ralph Woodward who was primarily responsible for Woodward Park. And then
also, a girl by the name of Abbie Woodward Parker who lived most of her
life outside of Fresno in New York and San Francisco for whatever reason,
I'm not exactly certain. But, my grandfather was an avid reader and
really enjoyed books, had quite an extensive collection and a library,
actually in his own home. And he was also a business partner with his
brother, Ralph Woodward in the farm implement business for a number of
years as well. And again, also interested in real estate and development
and that type of thing. My grandfather passed away in 1940, so I recall
him but not in great detail. And that was the reason actually my own
family moved back in 1940 from the bay area to Fresno. But, he was known
and at least of all the accounts that I received is as a very gentle,
interesting, you know, man who was really more interested in areas
outside of business than necessarily strictly focused on business as I
believed my great grandfather, his father was pretty focused on the
business world.
>> Colby Tibbet: Next, talk about a little bit about his interest in art
and literary things, can you talk a little bit about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, the -- As I say, he had an extensive library, and
part of that was a history of California. And that particular collection
was actually later, it was formally given to the grandchildren, there are
five grandchildren of which I was one. And our parents determined that
that would be a good special collection for the Madden Library at the
time. And so, my father who was close to Henry Madden actually made this
gift on our behalf as being the first special collection in the Special
Collection Library at Fresno State.
>> Colby Tibbet: So you mentioned your great uncle in terms of the
establishment of Woodward Park? Can you elaborate or reflect a little bit
more on him?
>> Jim Woodward: Certainly. He was a very interesting gentleman who I did
get to know quite well because he didn't pass away until I believe in the
'60s. And I actually spent quite a bit of time with him. He was an avid
sportsman, fisherman and a hunter and so forth. And he initially thought
it would be a great idea to have a bird sanctuary in Fresno. And which
would probably approximate 50 acres or so -- or so -- approximately. And
some people around him including my own dad convinced him that a more
general open and larger public park would be even more beneficial to the
city. And so, ultimately he left his -- essentially his entire estate for
that purpose. And so rather than just have a bird sanctuary of which a
part of the park still is that approximately 50 acres. But we were able
to add another, initially another 150 acres and then later another 50
acres or more. So, it's over 300 acres now. And there's a lot of history
of course around the development of that. And it took a lot, a lot of
individuals after his death to make that occur. And I think it's
important because particularly the city parks and recreation director
Howard Homan was a catalyst in a very important part of making that
happen and turned out to what -- what has been a very successful
obviously a project for the City of Fresno.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit more about your
grandfather Roy J. Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Again as I mentioned, he was an avid reader and
apparently a very -- very quiet and -- person who -- who has focused on
family a lot as well as others. Now, he had, he had two children. One, my
father and one, a girl by the named of Atha Woodward O'Connor who I
previously mentioned had designed the memorial, the Anna Woodward
Memorial Fountain that's down in our courthouse park. But, my father
settled in Fresno after going to Berkeley and to Harvard and so forth and
came back and lived his whole life here. My aunt, rather took a little
different turn and settled in the Bay Area. So, she was close of course,
but she lived most of her life in the Bay Area although she did live a
short time here. And she had -- they had three children. And then my dad
actually had four of which I was the second oldest son and the only boy,
so I had three sisters and, but most of the family eventually moved out.
At most, my sisters are all living out of the area, so I'm here -- but we
do have seven grandchildren in the area, so we're still -- still hanging
around.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, between your grandchildren, you're the only one that
primarily stayed in Fresno?
>> Jim Woodward: That's actually correct. Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms your uncle. Can you -- in terms of your
great uncle Ralph, can you talk a little bit more about the park and its
development and its history in regards to the city?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. Surely. Well, he passed, passed away in the
early '60s I recall and the park started to actually be developed in the
mid '60s about the time I actually came out of law school. And so I was
around for a certain portion of that. And as I mentioned earlier, Howard
Homan played a big role. Another person locally who played a large role
was Lewis S. Eaton. And the Eatons, as many know with the family that
founded the Guarantee Savings and Loan and they happened also be
neighbors of ours for a number of years. And my father and Lew Eaton did
a number of projects, local projects together, not the least of which it
was forming the regional -- Fresno Regional Foundation as well as many
other projects. And I even eventually later worked with Lew Eaton at
Guaranteed for a number of years and in different ways. But Lew was
appointed as a successor trustee. He was not an original trustee, but he
was appointed a year or so after the process began for establishing the
park. And what turned out to be very, very fortuitous and helpful was
that at the time, they were prepared to or preparing to place the park
out on Belmont on -- in east Fresno. And he didn't think that was the
best of ideas. So, they began focusing more on the north where the growth
of course was occurring. And just by chance, he -- at that time he was
President of the U.S. Savings and Loan League and -- which was happened
to be headquartered in New York. And also, the owners of the property
that was acquired was Santa Monica Land Company which is also
headquartered in New York. And so, after a number of visits, he was able
to convince them to -- can sell the land for this purpose. And that was
obviously a very important and key part of the whole establishment of the
park. The park, originally, a lot of -- many people don't recall or
weren't here to see that that was absolutely bare land. I mean, it was -and pretty flat too, but totally bare out there. So, the -- another
fortuitous thing was that the City of Fresno, and I still believe does
have a tree farm. So, almost instantaneously, they were able to establish
a significant presence as a park immediately rather than waiting, as we
know for some of those types of trees to take a very long time to grow.
So, that was another big, big, step among others. About that time -- well
at that time, interest arouse to establish a Japanese garden. So, through
a number of people including my dad and Lew Eaton and others this -- the
Shinzen Garden -- Friendship Garden was established and has been a very,
I think significant addition to the park. It has -- continues to have
challenges of course with -- if not, just the water situation these days,
but also the maintenance frankly and with the -- trying to work with the
City of Fresno and so forth. And that's been quite challenging but a good
thing has happened just recently where they've acquired a bonsai
collection from the Clark Museum down in Hanford. And it's very
significant and they're working right now on another section for -really of great addition to the park. The park as I mentioned was
originally conceived as a bird sanctuary more than anything and -- But
with the idea that with the other space that it would be primarily a
passive park. One for families and other events and gatherings, but not
overrun with too many amusements and too many destinations. So, my only
concern and my only involvement really has been to try to remind everyone
about that occasionally that if you get too many destinations, you
necessarily interfere with the passive use which I think could be very
unfortunate. And particularly with the amount of use it gets at -- on
holidays and so forth the cars are backed up quite ways. And I think that
need to be always -- that is to -- the use needs to be protected for its
initial and its best purpose. And sometimes even though they might have
good motives, these other events -- for example, the amphitheater which I
participated in frankly and went through Rotary to establish but on a
limited scale. And at times, they wanted to make that much more than it
is now. And there again, I think personally it would be a mistake.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that's -- because it's so extremely unique to Fresno
because there's not many places like that and a very passive experience,
correct?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And with noise or others even at one time
for a short period, they had a light show which was fascinating in the
holidays and it was great. But think about -- so, they had a lot of wires
strung around there and think of not only the kids, but people walking
but also the number of running events that the cross countries which
again I think is it's a great purpose, you know, use. And -- But you kind
of, you kind of have to manage these things sometime so that you get -the end result is what you want and not something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you -- a little question about the reasoning before
the development why they wanted to go towards Belmont, towards that area.
Can you -- do you know the reason why--the logic behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: You know, I was not a party, you know, to it. And I
really don't know specifically. It could well have been a cost factor at
the time. That's certainly possible. Maybe they were concerned and of
course which it is. The river is a barrier going north to some degree,
but we also know we still have a lot of development left out north that - and so there's still plenty of room. And I think, you know, it also
shows -- it's been 50 something years, 60 I guess. But since it all
started and we still have quite a bit of space and, of course, the need
it's ideally located as things turned out because again there's so many
people that just from their homes they tell me. I mean, they take their
bikes, or walk or whatever. And so that's really gratifying. I mean, it's
-- to me it's one of our best examples of doing something right. And some
of it by accident, no doubt, but at least we got -- we did get a good
result.
>> Colby Tibbet: Do you think that foresight of moving it north is one of
the primary reasons for its success? I mean just the location and the
idea of everything moving north?
>> Jim Woodward: Absolutely. And I think that, you know, if you think
about it too in terms of travel and transportation and people going north
or south, if it were too far east -- I mean particularly going north you
add quite a bit of travel time, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think again,
it just it's a lot of different elements, but it's again it turned out to
be a good choice.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then you said -- you mentioned that it was flat
previously. So->> Jim Woodward: Yup. Yup.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- they had to dig, you know->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- there is hills and->> Jim Woodward: Absolutely.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- with the road works. I mean, do you know a little bit
about that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I -- what I recall is, is two small children at
that time and I would take them out with these little carts so that, you
know, this -- what the -- what's the derby they used to have, a little->> Colby Tibbet: Boxcar.
>> Jim Woodward: -- boxcar deals. And we made those. And I remember that- again, making these undulations and so forth which was great for that,
for that use. But, they did have to move, move a lot of dirt. And as I
say, it was absolutely barren. There were certainly no trees. That's for
sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: Excellent. Can you talk a little bit about the history
and just a little bit about your father?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. He went by his initials -- he went by OJ before
OJ became infamous and had -- and there are a lot of stories about that.
But he went by OJ and he was the second of course because his grandfather
was still alive but his father actually wasn't OJ. So -- But he went to
Berkeley and then later to Harvard Business School and he came back to
Fresno in 1940 when his father died and stayed there ever since. And was
primarily involved in real estate development, property management as I
called it then, although many people didn't really know the terminology
or understand it much, but he devoted in his -- particularly his mid and
later years probably close to two-thirds of his time, his actual physical
time on projects, on non-profits. And he was very involved and started a
number of different organizations. He was involved with the art museum,
which was then known as the Art Center when they moved from downtown,
from the Vanderberg Home out to where they are now on Clinton known as,
of course, the Fresno Art Museum, which is much different and certainly
has grown. But he focused a lot on cultural arts because he felt that
those were often ignored. People were generally more connected with
social or health issue problems rather than the cultural arts, so he
focused a lot on that. But he also became involved in a number of our
local nonprofits and started a number of them. He was the first president
of the SPCA. He was involved with the zoo in the early, early times. He
was involved in the swimming programs. My sister, Beverly my older sister
and I were started in competitive swimming when we were eight or nine
years old, which was a little unusual in those, days but we were involved
and so he got involved. And so, he started some of the first swimming
programs and competitive swimming programs. He was involved in -- again,
a lot of projects that are unknown. Probably one of his better known
projects was he put the committee together to raise the money and then
select the art for the mall art downtown which is of course under
discussion right now quite a bit as to its importance and so forth. But
that was a very successful project and brought art to our area, which we
hadn't seen before. But he always had a project going, the Fresno
Regional Foundation was his concept. And he brought Lew Eaton involved
immediately and they got that off the ground and that has gone through
considerable growth and to where now it's really serving the purpose that
he always thought that it could. But some of these projects of course
take longer than others and the Regional Foundation has taken a number of
years to build the assets and the base to provide the kind of purpose and
asset to this community that he had in mind certainly.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about what the Fresno Regional
Foundation is, what it does and when it first started?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. The Regional Foundation is known as the community
foundation of which now there are quite a few throughout the country.
Back then, there weren't, there weren't so many. And the history, the -of community foundations is generally it takes a rather large gift or
more to really get it off the ground, to give it substance and assets.
And that took quite a few years to be honest, quite a few years. Many of
us served throughout that. We had to use a voluntary executive director
for many years. And that is certainly not the case now nor in the last
several directors. But it -- what its purposes is, is to attempt not only
to encourage philanthropy at a broad base but to get involved in making
decisions on priorities for the community and where it's needed. And as I
say early on with limited assets, of course, you couldn't do as much, but
now and particularly with collaboration with such foundations such as the
Irvine Foundation, it's been an incredible asset and important to that
growth. But--And then the federal grants and so forth, they're -- The way
that the Regional Foundation works now and they have a board of course
that's community board as well as executive director staff of eight or
nine now and they attempt to do what I mentioned. And that is on a very
broad base encourage philanthropy, but then also participate in trying to
be sure that these funds go into the right place. And that can get pretty
challenging at times. And -- but it -- It's particularly attractive too
for what we call planned giving and that in terms of where people have
significant resources and assets. And upon their death want to leave them
for the benefit of the community. They may not have -- either have
sufficient over and above what they need for their family or they may not
have a large family. And the reason I think it's particularly beneficial
is because sometimes with the individual nonprofits, there isn't the
self-control when things get challenging to protect endowments from
invasion and not really furthering the purpose for which those funds were
given. And that for some of us is very disturbing. And we've had -- we've
seen and had our funds frankly taken from endowments that their
motivation may be correct but the result is not. And whereas when you
have a sense of third party entity with independent judgment, if the
original entity fails, they can look to the next best, then the closest
similar purpose and again, try to fulfill what that original donor had in
mind. And then that's I think just being -- ethical and to the purpose
but with the failure of some of our nonprofits through a very -- for
various reasons, sometimes this doesn't occur. And that's why I say the - And the regional foundation now, I mean it's broadened its
participation and we’re actually involved in four or five counties and
constantly building its assets. And through them also, a lot of people
don't know that it's not just a case of giving funds or assets to the
regional fund. You can put them with them for management and they will
again through donor advise funds as we call them and other ways, even
independent foundations but with their management can be sure again that
those assets are protected and go to the right place.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, can you with your grand or with your father besides,
you know the things that they worked with, can you talk a little bit
about like -- his like personal interests, or his hobbies or anything
like that?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Sure. He had many interests of course and that -in those days -- really early days for like myself being in this area-well, among other things there weren't the organized sports for kids that
we have today. It was pretty much hunting and fishing and being in the
mountains and that type of activity. And so, that's what we did. And even
when I was a youngster, I mean we -- in our neighborhoods, we had
football teams and all that but nothing organized like today, which is a
whole other issue. But, it's really organized. But his interests were
largely in that and in art as I mentioned in the cultural arts, he was -He actually did quite a bit of sculpturing and other types, wood working.
And we always had a shop at home and he had a lot of interests and he
would spend most of the summers and or good part of the summers and we
had a cabin up at Huntington Lake, which my grandparents built in the
late 1920s. I mean they actually had two cabins. They built it on the
side now where there are mostly cabins. But at that time, there was no
road, so the most -- all that material was brought by boat. And it took
quite a while to build that cabin, but it -- it's quite a cabin by the
time they got it through. But as I did, I mean we spent most of the
summers up there and it was a very active place. And as was all of
Huntington Lake and Lakeshore and even down in Shaver Lake, a lot of
that’s changed and I think to some degree personally that a lot -- that
it's been influenced by the organized sports for the kids during the
summers where they just don't have that flexibility in that time. They
have to focus and they have to go to these camps and it's just a
different -- a different environment. My father, as far as business was
as I say, you know, primarily focused on real estate and developing what
we call neighborhood shopping centers and that type, it's small
subdivisions, small -- but his real -- I think his real love focus was on
other things other than just the business part. He had many other
interests.
>> Colby Tibbet: We still have a couple more family members that I have
here. Particularly, Beatrice Denke Woodward and Nadine. Is there
anything you want to talk a little bit about them or your aunt Atha
Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Let me -- Yeah. Let me just think here what might be the
more ->> Colby Tibbet: Or anything that you want, or we can jump to anything,
other topics that you want to talk about it’s entirely up to you?
>> Jim Woodward: I'm just trying to think what -- what might make sense
in terms of again connecting at, you know, to -- and I don't know whether
we ought to -- I mean, as far as, you know, my own kids and all of that
we can leave ‘til next time because of just again to keep some -- some.
We’ve, we had the foundation on that list. I was trying to think what
else anything we had, and we had quite a bit with Lew.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, you want to talk a little bit more about Lew Eaton
and the things that he has done or?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. I could talk because he felt that -- that his
role, he told me a number of times because we spend a lot of time
together. All kinds of different ways, mountains, playing tennis, golf,
and all this stuff. But he thought that his role in changing the location
of that park was probably one of the most important things he --he ever
did. And then later, which I'll, I can get to next time, when he passed
away, I got a group together and we came up with the idea of the Lewis S.
Eaton trail, which was just perfect for his situation and the family
liked loved it and everything else. So -- But I think we can ->> Colby Tibbet: So, can you talk a little bit about the Fulton Mall and
the role your family and your father had in regards to it?
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. As I mentioned, he was very focused on cultural
arts and he was involved in the very early years of the -- what's now the
Art Museum and other groups. And one of his -- I think most interesting
projects and lasting projects, well hope it's lasting, was when the
Fulton Mall was being formed and the succeeds and the designs and so
forth. He came up with the idea of raising money to bring in some really
major art works. And not just from well-known artists but from local
artists as well. And so, he formed a committee. He came up with a
somewhat of a new way of raising that money by putting a minimum on what
your contribution could be because he knew he didn't have a lot of time
to get it together, but which worked successfully although was
challenging too. So, this small committee made up of some artists as well
as himself and community leaders went out. And I actually went along a
couple of times when they interviewed, particularly local artists in
terms of what they might be interested in in offering and believe me they
weren't offering them as donations but, but they were very interested in
the project. And so, of course, what eventually evolved was everything
from a Renoir of the washing woman to some local pieces like there's a
granite piece by Newt Russell who was local attorney and a very good
family friend, we went in the back country a number of times together
with his boys. And also then other artists, but trying to bring a balance
of appropriate art that would make the whole Fulton Mall, you know, a
special, a special place. And in those years, it was a very special
place. And when I know even myself when I was again, out of law school in
the '60s and early '70s at lunch time, was a lot of business that on the
mall at the lunch break -- But the whole environment of course was quite
different. And the -- As you can imagine, there were many different
opinions when it comes to art, anyone who's been involved with art
particularly in a business sense, you know, in a business office or law
firm, usually get a very -- a lot of discussion about art one way or the
other. And which is good. And I think that brought a lot of interest to
the mall when it was first established. And, of course, more recent years
there's been discussion of possibly completely redesigning, if not
eliminating not only the art but the configuration of the whole mall,
which is a whole story into itself. And there again, as many -- probably
as many opinions as a number of people you talk with, but I think for the
most part, everyone agrees that that was a major improvement and
contribution. It should be protected to the extent possible. And if there
other driving forces that require street configuration and so forth,
that's one thing, but I hope we we’re sensitive to these things. And I'm
sure we're making and try to be sure we're making an improvement and not
just a change.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is about also like maintaining and preserving that
art itself.
>> Jim Woodward: And that that -- and that's a very good point because
like so many different situations, it's the maintenance and continued
protection of these valuable assets that is important and yet is probably
sometimes the most difficult to find the support for. But I must say,
several years ago, there were several efforts and actually made and
completed in terms of protecting -- There was a former councilman and
others who saw the need and I was very impressed because they did do
that. And I don't think the exact location always is that critical, you
know, providing again, it makes sense and it helps guarantee that
protection that we're all concerned about.
>> Colby Tibbet: And then can you talk a little bit more about during
this time, a lot of the other things that your father was invested in in
terms of changing structurally or different things that he wanted to make
improvements upon.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I think I previously mentioned his interest in
the swimming area, competitive swimming and so forth. And then, as part
of that, he was the one -- and I believe pretty much individually who
went to the schools and to the administration and convince them to put
the first swimming pools in our high schools. And I mean that was the
first. And it was accomplished and received. I know many, many
compliments and later too about the one thing, though, that occurred in
that situation was at that time, the kids weren't playing any water polo.
We did -- I hardly knew the sport at that point. And so, as a result, all
the pools in the high schools actually were not built deep enough for
good water polo play. And I know because our sons played. And frankly, it
can be dangerous. And it was in one situation and the recent being --
players get leverage off the bottom of the pool and that creates a
different dynamic. And in one of our son's case, it created quite a few
stitches. So, it's -- again, one of those things that has now though been
pretty well corrected overall and it was great to see and it -- But I do
think it helped without doubt start and certainly supported the interest
in swimming, or competitive swimming and probably water polo because, you
know, many of these -- many kids, of course, didn't have pools at their
homes or didn't have access to that type of activity. So, I think he, you
know, I think my dad felt a lot of satisfaction in that particular
project, but he always seem to have a project under consideration at
least.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk -- Can you name some schools that, you
know, initially were changed local -- here locally.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I know Fresno High. And I mean I read and I know
at that time and again I don't recall the exact timing when Hoover and
Bullard came along, but, of course, back in that time for sure, Roosevelt
and Edison and Fresno High School along with, of course, Memorial but as
far as the Unified School District, there were just three or four. And -and then it -- but I believed in each case even -- well I know for a fact
that Bullard, and I think Hoover as well, for sure also were too shallow
and had to be changed. Of course, a lot of that has now been corrected.
But -- And those days too. The system was much smaller. I mean, you could
deal directly with the superintendent of schools. You didn't have quite
the challenges with as many voices and some things were simplified
without a question.
>> Colby Tibbet: The bureaucracy and just the ->> Jim Woodward: Nope. Nope. Joke. That's just reality today I think.
Right -- right now -- well, it's a pattern. I guess one of a number and I
guess some -- maybe I mean, some of it I did understand but in more
recent years, I've never -- I haven't understood why some of these very
large homes are being built whether it's by the builder or the person
that's paying the bill. I mean, given all of the challenges and even
aside from water and everything else, just utilities and the whole bit
and I don't care how much money you have. It's not where I'm at. I -- I
am interested now because I happen to be a pretty close friend of Leo
Wilson who's built an awful lot of homes. And we have a group that has
lunch most Fridays and so forth. And so, we have a lot of history and
background. But, you know, here's somebody who built the biggest homes
and with, you know, a lot of -- and some pretty expensive, a lot of
molding, a lot of -- and now, I mean he's -- his average home, you know,
is really pretty small. And he not building it that big, but now other
people are -- I don't mean that, but I mean that's been interesting to me
‘cause he got into -- out of the dominion and all of that, all that -he's the first one that did any of that. And I used to take him -- go
down with him to Orange County ‘cause I was down there for five years
with a large builder Kaiser-Aetna. And which we had all kinds of product,
different types of product. And at Warner Center particularly which is
Woodland Hills. I mean, we did everything from Blue Cross headquarters to
tennis clubs to -- just all kinds of things. And so, I mean I’ve seen a
lot of change and so forth. But of course, ground, you know what, a lot
of it comes back to what the price of ground is. And since it was cheap,
that's why you go out. I mean, you don't go up. I mean, it’s simple. I
mean, really that part. That's why in New York and San Francisco, you
know, you could pay so much for that little pad that should make more
sense. So that drives a lot of it. But, I guess I still in this last
cycle and I’m talking like about the last -- say five? Ten, ten years
maybe. But -- And the last down cycle, people still going out and
building these crazy -- And I know some of them --and they’re not large
families. I'm not talking about if you've got ->> Colby Tibbet: Six kids ->> Jim Woodward: Seven kids, five, you know, or something else. I mean I
have a boy with seven children. So, I mean, I know you know, and but they
don't need that in there, you know, but I just think it's kind of
interesting how that's changed.
>> Colby Tibbet: And there's influx too. So, it'll be some years where
that's really in high demand or popular. But then you see this decrease
in more of a minimal, you know, a smaller setting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well there's definitely been a separation between, you
know, and I'm sure you're aware of this, out by the park and all that
development versus Old Fig Garden and Fresno High and all that. I mean,
it's just two worlds. And for a lot of people, that's a good point. Who
come from particularly -- I don't know why I'm thinking of Southern
California because I'm not, but they're used to something more similar to
that. And so, it's obviously more comfortable, you know, including our,
you know, even some of our kids have, you know, that's - -Even though
they kind of like to be somewhere else but it -- that's where it works
best for them economically and other way. So, I don't know. You know,
it's Old Fig is a story into itself, you know? I mean, I could -- I think
we were talking about. I mean, I can go down Wilson and Wishon and
identify most of them, most of the names over the last 50 or 60 years.
>> Colby Tibbet: I lived on Wishon, I lived in a home from the 1930s and
there was ->> Jim Woodward: Between what street?
>> Colby Tibbet: Wishon and Harvard. So, it’s a little bit closer to the
Fresno High area.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And ->> Jim Woodward: Sure. I know it.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's interesting the history that you learn about your
home, but then you go a couple blocks east or west and that history could
just be nonexistent --
>> Jim Woodward: Well, that's another thing. I mean it's very, very
spotty and different thing. In fact, for a short time, I mean, I lived in
Old Fig for quite a while but then I lived down by Hamilton, right there
on Farris. You know, I went to Fresno High for a while. And -- but then,
of course, huge difference when Bullard came along and things started
going north again. I mean, that changed the dynamics but -- But there's
something about, you know, Old Fig, it's just surely kind of amazing I
think.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely its own little microcosm within itself
of Fresno, definitely.
>> Jim Woodward: And it's, you know, plus and minus, you know I mean, but
it's got a lot of history. It’s really what intrigues me like right
across of my grandparents, again, Roy and, you know, even in his home had
a true library. I mean, which I don't think were that common. But right
across from them was Gilbert Jertberg. And Gilbert, he's -- he has been
the highest court judge that we've ever had come from here, he's on the
Ninth Circuit in the federal system, but he was a very good friend of my
grandfather's and he had a lot of connections at Stanford. And in that
house, I mean people like Herbert Hoover, Earl Warren and all these
people. And I almost tried to bite it one time just because of all this
history, you know, but it took a lot of work. And so, Stuart Woolf which
did it. And he did a good job. And -- but I mean there is a lot of
history around and there's history everywhere. I mean -- but, it's kind
of fun to reflect, you know, to -- But in a general sense, I guess one of
the things would surprise me a little -- a little bit is that it's taken
so long, I mean even with the barrier of the river. You know, even if you
stay to this side and go on up to the dam and, you know, how long that's
taken to develop. I mean things have really pushed east, you know, but of
course, Clovis was out there to -- most of all their school system that
made a huge difference and no question, no question. I mean that had a
big influence for -- I think it still does. I don't know to the degree it
does but ->> Colby Tibbet: I remember, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago that
was a huge deal for a lot of parents and it's definitely ->> Jim Woodward: Huge.
>> Colby Tibbet: It's definitely balanced out. It's definitely balanced
out. I think a little bit more in terms of Bullard and Edison and all
these other schools who really ->> Jim Woodward: And I think because they changed the schools, the
programs with Edison Computech and all of that got their act together and
I think you're right and, of course, Buchanan, you know, the
superintendent out there, I mean he -- big influence and it was new, it
was different, it was, you know, very progressive and very competent. You
know, so it was--but that had a lot.
>> Colby Tibbet: So before you saw that Eastern push, you really were
thinking it was all -- it's going to head all the way up to Friant.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, probably feeling,
but you know what's happening right now across the river, you know, in
Madera County. There are some like McCaffrey and Gunner and I mean all
these -- big chunks —>> Colby Tibbet: The Tesoro ->> Jim Woodward: And it's going to take -- of course water continues even
before this thing. I mean water's been a huge issue and should be. I
mean, I think you had to give somebody credit. I mean, they were ahead on
that one. They stayed ahead on that one and didn't let them, because I
know Yule [assumed spelling] and Ben Yule and others, you know, they've
been for 20, 30 years been trying to do a lot more up there. But they've
held them back because of the water issue. And so, you know, I think
that, you know, that makes sense, but it's a, you know, it's an
interesting challenge with all of the local politics and then you of
course you throw in a little corruption here and there and that always
gets everybody going like with that whole deal that -- what they call it
out there. They called it Clovis, I mean, but it really wasn't so much -What was that -- deal that Tatham -- Bill Tatham started. They're the
same, but anyway, they sent several people to jail. I mean, wasn’t a
small deal. I mean it was, you know, not that everybody wasn't doing it,
but they nailed quite a few people and that kind of changed that dynamic
a little.
>> Colby Tibbet: With your early life, maybe a little bit about your
childhood, where you were, where you lived and then kind of maybe move
transition into college, and early education.
>> Jim Woodward: Surely. I was actually born in Oakland, California
because my parents were living in the Bay Area at the time. My dad had
just come back from Harvard Business School and was working in San
Francisco. And so that was in the late 1930s. But in 1940, my grandfather
passed away and so we moved back to Fresno. And I was in Fresno schools
up through most of high school and then eventually went to UC Berkeley
for undergraduate and was there until 1958 when I did have to serve in
the military for just six months active duty, but in reserve -- in
reserves for a number of years thereafter. Upon completing that tour, if
you will, with the US army and I was involved in artillery and guided
missile school area and was at Fort Sill. Upon returning however, then I
worked for a short time with PG&E in San Francisco and some small
securities companies and -- But then entered Stanford Business School in
1959 and graduated in 1961. From there, I went back across the Bay, if
you will, to Berkeley for law school. And graduated from there in 1964
and returned to Fresno for a short time with a law firm and practiced
law. But within about a year, I was asked to join the legal staff for the
UC Regents. And that was again, you know, about 1966, which was a very
interesting time on the Berkeley campus as we recall. And also
interesting from the standpoint that Ronald Regan had just been elected
governor and was, of course, on the Board of Regents and there was quite
a difference of approach between the administration at that time at UC
and the Board of Regents. The Board of Regents at that time was composed
of some very well known individuals like Norton Simon and Dorothy
Chandler and Catherine Hearst and all names that most people recognized
at the time. But also pretty, pretty conservative philosophy whereas the
administration in many areas was quite different and of course it was -a lot of turmoil at that time with all that was going on on campus and so
forth. But I enjoyed that and learned a lot, I think about some of the
ramifications of the political scene and enjoyed it a lot. But in -after a couple years, I returned to Fresno and joined the law firm of -at that time. It was Gallagher, Baker, Manock, myself and Wanger. And of
course Ollie Wanger went on to be a federal court judge for many years
and now practices in Fresno. About 1972 or three, I decided I wanted to
diverse a little bit in terms of getting into the -- at least the
potential possibility of being more in management than just from legal
matters. And the -- So I joined the -- A firm by the name of Kaiser Aetna
which was a partnership between Kaiser Aluminum and Aetna Life Insurance.
It was worldwide actually, but headquartered in Oakland. And so I moved
to Newport Beach and within one year I was made the regional manager as
well as also able to do the legal work for that particular area and that
was very rewarding and interesting time. About five years after I joined
Kaiser Aetna, they determined that they were not particularly compatible
partners because Kaiser Aluminum of course was a manufacturing company
basically and tended to count the widgets at the end of the year. And
whereas Aetna understood the real estate area a little bit more and the
primary function of this company was real estate development and as I
say, throughout the world. When it became clear they were not going to
continue to exist, I of course began to think about other opportunities
and I was actually offered to be the first general council for the Irvine
Company in 1977. But unfortunately, the family was having some difficult,
some misunderstandings if you will, and so they could never quite get
that finalized in a shorter term. So I returned to Fresno which obviously
set my whole life again in a different -- a little bit, in a different
direction. And I came back and joined with First Savings and Loan which
was a local small savings and loan who'd been a client of mine and ours -earlier when I was in practice.
>> Colby Tibbet: This is this is in 1977 correct?
>> Jim Woodward: This is in 1977, correct. And so I was able to be both
an in-house corporate council, also have a private practice on the side
and do a certain amount of real estate development for them in terms of
joint ventures at that time. I continued to do that until -- for several
years and then, First Savings and Loan merged with Central Savings, which
was a fairly large S and L at that time headquartered in San Diego. And
so I almost moved down there, but I stayed here and continued in private
practice and so forth until about 1985, mid 80s, Lew Eaton, who was the
President and CEO of Guarantee Savings and Loan asked me to join them.
For several reasons and several capacities, one was to do some
reorganization of the company since it was growing very rapidly. And also
particularly to build a large headquarters for them, and to put a team
together to build this in which we did and we put -- and within nine
months we're ready to break ground, out actually directly across from
Woodward Park. And it was quite a -- it's a 30-acre project which three
buildings initially and then it would become eventually four -- four. And
about eight days before groundbreaking, in fact the wine glasses were
etched and everybody was ready to go. It was discovered that the Chief
Financial Officer for Guarantee Savings had placed us in a very
unfortunate position, financially and so that project had to be abandoned
and at that time, the company went in to a mode of looking again for a
merger, and to be sold because again of the risk involved, the management
and owners, and by that time Guarantee was a public company but it was
family-controlled in terms pretty much here in our area. So, eventually
there was a merger with Glendale Federal, which then later, after a
couple of steps became a part of Citibank actually and still is. So that
was kind of my history in terms of dealing particularly with the real
estate development, but then the financial end of it because I did stay
on with Glendale Federal for three and a half years and was on their
executive committee, in loan committees and so forth. But because -- just
geographically it became a little bit of a challenge and because we did
have operations in Florida and the State of Washington as well as
California and so forth. And so about that time, again needed to
transition and look for a different activity and I returned to private
practice in this area and ->> Colby Tibbet: Can you explain elaborate why you made that decision?
What was the -- your motives or your ideas behind that?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, what was happening essentially was the financial
institutions, which I've been involved with primarily S and L’s during
from -- for quite a few years there. There was a series of mergers and it
was a bunch of transitional period and most of those and all eventually
became headquartered in larger cities. And so it limited the
opportunities in terms of particularly in banking and so forth. And by
that time, most of the S and L’s have become actually banks and in
banking. And it was an easy transition for me as far as private law
practice because again, I had pretty much kept a common theme and what I
was doing although it sounds like a lot of different organizations, and
that common theme was real estate, both in its management and its
development and so forth. So, so it made -- It continued to make sense.
If I wanted to particularly, if I wanted to stay in this area butch, by
that time, I was pretty settled in and so forth.
>> Colby Tibbet: Settled in, can you talk a little bit about when did,
when did -- Between working all these jobs when did you meet your wife?
You know, that’s kind of important, right. I mean ->> Jim Woodward: That's very important. Well actually I met my wife, my
first wife Diane in -- at Berkeley and then we separated many years
later, 20 years later, basically. And had two children, a boy and a girl
and at that time, and then was frankly single for a number of years,
about 16 or 17 years and was remarried in 1989 to Judith Knapp who is a
psychologist as well as a registered nurse and so forth. And together
combined, we have four children and they've all done very well. And it's
been a lot of fun because particularly when we had the, had two boys, one
at Stanford at the same time as one was at Cal, which, of course, I've
been an alumnus of both. So that was great, during big game time and all
the other activities. But I'm very pleased that I made the choice to
return and to become, you know, a part of the community in the way that
my family had, you know, previously.
>> Colby Tibbet: Was that something you always had a goal or, you know,
an ideal for, was that to come back and contribute in that way?
>> Jim Woodward: Well I always thought I would but, you never know
because as I mentioned, the Irvine Company opportunity that that would've
probably taken a very different turn since many of the people I worked
with down there -- in fact my counterpart from Chicago became President
of the Irvine Company, the fellow who bought it Don Bren we worked with a
lot when I was at Kaiser Aetna. So, with all of those connections if you
will, I probably would have led to a different situations but I'm -- I've
always been so pleased that I was able to come back and from the time I
did, I became engaged in a number of local activities and feel it's
really an important part of my life and it's given me a great deal of
satisfaction.
>> Colby Tibbet: So after your private service or your private, doing
private law practice -- excuse me, what was after that, what did, you
know, this was like around 2003 at this time.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Well I went and -- I'm with several -- Actually,
when I transitioned out of Guarantee, McCormick Barstow Law Firm had been
our law firm for many years. And that was an easy transition. And then,
eventually however, I ended up back in my old, original law firm Baker,
Manock and Jenson. As -- of council which is -- can mean almost anything
but in my case, it was where I'm -- still practice, but I'm not doing as
much or I'm not as confined to that as certainly -- the attorneys or
associates would normally be. But that has also permitted me again to be
fairly active in a variety of local non-profits. And along the way too,
which in addition to the non-profits, I've served on the board of
Gottschalks, which was, again a family-owned company, which went public.
And I served on that board for about 15 years before it eventually was
closed under very unfortunately circumstances because it, we were doing
quite well and providing a lot of employment and to so forth and it
served the community I think very well. But GE Capital decided they
wanted to reduce their amount of financing and that's what lead to that - and that's what triggered that -- that action where it was closed. And
what's kind of coincidental is just this last couple of weeks, GE has
announced they're getting completely out of capital financing and so
forth. So sometimes, you don't have control over those things just like
with Guarantee Savings, which I mentioned -- which was forced again to
merge due to certain economic and business considerations. I've always
thought it was interesting that two significant businesses in our
community have very parallel histories. They both were originated and
created in approximately the year 1900 and both celebrated a hundred year
anniversary but both are gone and they were companies, which had definite
philosophies in the terms of how they treated their customers and how
they approach business. And I think served the community well, both
family-owned but both went public eventually. And it's just again
economic circumstances sometimes drives these situations which don't
always serve maybe the best interest of as many people as we'd like, so.
>> Colby Tibbet: Can you talk a little bit about -- you know, you talked
about Gottschalks, more about the nonprofits or the community benefit
organizations that you've been a part of?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. Before I do that, I'll just mention -- the only
other for-profit company, which I did serve, which was publicly listed as
well and turned out to be an energy company, it originally was called the
Ag Zone, it was an ecommerce approach to dealing with agricultural
products. Unfortunately, our timing was just a little off. And it
eventually transitioned after several steps into an energy company
headquartered in Houston. And I did serve eventually as chairman of that
board. But it finally again merged into another company. But it was
primarily focused on what is now fairly well-known, not at that time it
wasn't and that is this horizontal drilling approach to extracting oil
from the ground. And it's been revolutionary in many respects and is
being seen right now. But again, it took several years for that to
transition as we work through it.
>> Colby Tibbet: And that was done here at Central California, so this
very revolutionary and pioneering technology was being applied here. And
then now we see it everywhere.
>> Jim Woodward: Exactly. And of course currently, the whole oil
industry’s been very much in the news and very, again very if not
controversial, very topical, you know, in terms of what is going on and
so forth. But that was again an interesting experience. Regarding the
nonprofits, I always felt I was -- It was sort of an automatic thing for
me to do because my father had been very involved as I’ve mentioned
before in a number of local nonprofits and then created a number of
entities which still exist today. So when I came back in the mid 60's out
of law school, I immediately got involved with actually Storyland and
which before, it became more of a part of Rotary. But also the old Fresno
Art Center, which is now the Fresno Art Museum and I became -- Came on
those boards and actually became president of both of them eventually.
And then even though I left town as I mentioned earlier, I still stayed
somewhat connected and so when I returned, I immediately got involved in
other similar activities and eventually, that included at that time the
Zoological Society, the Historical Society, the -- eventually became
involved with the Visitors and Convention Bureau. And was on that board
and president and then I became involved in Fresno State particularly and
was on their foundation board for over 15 years, I guess. And as well as
St. Agnes Hospitals Foundation Board and the Fresno Regional Foundation
Board as well and was Chairman of that for several times. So, I just have
always -- it's always been a kind of part of my life and I never was able
to devote quite the same percentage of time that my father did
particularly. But I -- But a significant amount of time and I found it
extremely gratifying. Some of the other projects, the Japanese Shinzen
Garden at Woodward Park on their advisory board and have stayed involved.
They -- I think they’re a great contribution, you know, to both the park
and to the whole community. But it's -- it’s very rewarding as you can
imagine.
>> Colby Tibbet: And has been so rewarding -- and even recognized for it
before, correct? I'm reading that you were the philanthropist of the year
of 2009, you were granted with that award?
>> Jim Woodward: That was--That was a very nice honor from the
Association of Professional Fundraisers. And it was nice to be
recognized, of course. I think probably for many of us in the community,
the -- if not the ultimate that the recognition that some of us probably
cherish the most is Leon Peters Award because it -- and I was fortunate
enough to know Leon quite well. And had the great opportunity, the first
time I was ever asked to go out and seek contributions from anyone from - and it was probably at that time -- for the art center, but he was the
ideal person to go to, to have -- to me to have to go to, to ask for
because it was his whole life. And so, he spent a lot of time with me,
gave me a lot of good ideas. And it's one of those things I remember
significantly, you know, greatly.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, currently what are you working on right now?
>> Jim Woodward: At the moment, I'm a -- I'm a Director Emeritus of the
Regional Foundation. So, I stay involved with their nominating committee
and so forth. I stay involved also on emeritus, Governor Emeritus for the
foundation, Fresno State Foundation. So, I try to stay involved in that.
I'm on the Board of Directors now of St. Agnes Hospital which is quite
challenging given what healthcare is today. That -- And I've only been on
for several months now, but I with my background from the foundation,
it's made it somewhat easier, but it's extremely challenging. And I think
is time very well -- very well-spent. I'm on the Board of Trustees of the
Central Sierra Historical Society, which is the group that built the
small museum up in Shaver Lake and is attempting again to keep the
history intact. And very, very active group and are doing some nice
things up there, I think.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, in terms of, this is more of a broad ->> Jim Woodward: Sure.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- question out of a big picture. And of all -- and all
these things that you've done and in terms of like where you work in
community organizations and part of these achievements, what are some of
the things that you can talk about, maybe that you wish had more time for
or things you could’ve developed more either for yourself as a hobby or
as a community? Is there anything that you think back be like, man, I
could have, you know, I shouldn't have done that or something? Not
necessarily like a regret but just more like an acknowledgement of
something you wish you had more time to do.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, to be honest, I wish I had just more time, period.
There is so much to be done. I mean, right now, our -- so many of our
community benefit groups as they're now called and more often than
nonprofits, but the same, the same thing are in constant need. And the
two are -- the two areas that I've seen particularly prevalent in those
groups, particularly those that I call stand alones that are not tied
either to a university system or to a hospital system or where there's
more structure, the biggest problem and it's just universal, the best I
can tell are pretty much anyway, continuity of leadership is a real
problem when you have a volunteer group. So as you can imagine, there's
nothing to really keep that together and on a regular basis. And when you
lose that continuity, in many cases, you place the organization at risk,
very much so. The other common element that I've seen is the lack of the
ability to establish financial stability particularly for operating
costs, year to year operating costs. It's always been relatively easy.
It's not as easy today because the numbers are so large. But
historically, it's been rather easy to find capital money and build a
structure if you will. The challenge has always been to build the base
and the foundation to be able to run it and to have a constant source of
income and so forth, because in the general -- in the majority cases,
your admission prices, your memberships and those kinds of things will
not sustain a larger operation. So, what we've -- what I've certainly
tried to encourage and others certainly too, is to build endowments. And
they can often come best through planned giving, through wills and
others, or even grants and whatever. But to build endowments which can
help provide sustainability and particularly, I like the idea of the
regional foundation because it separates it from the actual entity and
protects it in as much as too often we've – We’ve found when some of the
groups get into financial stress. They will invade these endowments or at
least borrow against them, which amounts to the same thing, amounts to
the very same thing because at the end of the day, if it fails, that
endowment’s gone. And I face this with the Met failure and others. I was
given the task of liquidating all the art that remained at the
Metropolitan Museum when it closed several years ago. And that took a
couple of years, we had somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,400 items. I
mean -- and they had to be disposed of and the art for the most part was
disposed through auction houses such as Sotheby's and Christie's and
others. And -- But it's very disappointing because needless to say, it
does -- it does not help in the future raising of funds and showing
responsibility and accountability when that happens. And those original
donors are very likely to become concerned, which they should be. And so,
we need to work on that. And I can honestly say, I think there's a number
of community benefit organizations that have been here for over 50 years,
which are still struggling and are not really financially stable and some
have considerable assets at risk. So, we need to improve on that. And
there's always plenty of challenges out there and to do. I believe that
maybe we’ve, through good motive but maybe not such good circumstance,
we’ve initiated and we've created probably too many entities in some
areas through again good motivation, but not good management and we're
overlapping and probably could do better in coordinating some of these
efforts. Because the motivation is usually good, but sometimes again our
ability to manage in a responsible way isn't quite what it could be. So,
we can always work on that.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, what's next for Jim Woodward?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, I'm at the point -- I try not to take on more than
I can comfortably handle. Fortunately, I am -- my time is pretty flexible
and I can do it, but right now, I can tell you the St. Agnes Board is
very much a full time. And I say full time, it honestly can be and I'm
just so impressed by the dedication, frankly not only of that, of the
board itself, I mean the key board members they'll spend a large
percentage of their time and fortunately are able to -- I mean day-to-day
on things, let alone the staff which is extremely committed and very,
very, very impressive, I think. But healthcare, of course is a very big
issue today from all aspects, financial and then importance significance
-- of some importance, but now with the government at all levels being
involved and thus the entire system embedded in political environment
suggest that it's going to -- that it's challenging. And it is, it is.
And no one -- I don't believe. I'm convinced that no one has a simple
answer or knows exactly where we are as we have heard from our
politicians and others. I mean it's extremely complex and the cost not
to—the least of which the cost is very difficult to get a handle on and
to control. And I could -- I think anyone could spend the rest working on
that -- on that one. So that's a real priority right now for me. And I -I've always liked to be involved with the cultural arts, which I am and I
know that it can't be left out. Sometimes I think we tend to forget the
benefits from say an area like that not realizing what it does in terms
of affecting human behavior and our standard of living and our whole
lifestyles, but there -- as I say, there are plenty of challenges, that
we know.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, you want to talk a little bit about your teaching?
You know, about where you taught, what you did?
>> Jim Woodward: Sure. We can do -- sure. I mean, just because again, I
think -- I mean those are the things I've enjoyed the most, you know, and
they’re all different for different reasons, you know. But ->> Colby Tibbet: Let’s start -- let’s start where you first started
teaching and when.
>> Jim Woodward: Okay. My first teaching, if you will, experience was
when I was in law school. I did some teaching and grading and so forth
over in the business school since I had, again, been to business school
before. I -- it was a nice diversion and it gave me a little variety. I
find I do better if I -- I'm able to have a little diversity in my
activities. So, I really enjoyed I worked with the dean over at that time
at the hospitals and school. And that was my first, I guess, true role as
a teacher, reader, or whatever at that time. But later, when I had some
little more flexibility here in Fresno, my first position was as an
adjunct professor at the business school here at Fresno State and taught
primarily business law and business-related subjects for several years.
And then later, I taught several times out of Fresno Pacific. Probably my
favorite class was organizational behavior, which was both of course a
business and a psych class, but ->> Colby Tibbet: It's relatively unique, I think.
>> Jim Woodward: And it brought -- multiple disciplines. So -- And
apparently interested the students more because we had a very good group,
strong group of students. And also, it gave me the chance to bring in
some individuals in the community such as the mayor and others, and other
successful business people and so forth to share their experiences and so
forth. So, that was certainly one of my favorite classes that I taught.
And then I did teach for a while evening classes at Fresno City College
and primarily in personal finance. And that was very rewarding because
these students really did want to learn, sometimes they were more
motivated than some other students just because, I mean they really
wanted to get as much information as they could on how to manage their
own personal affairs and so forth. So, all of those types of positions
have been very rewarding. And I think any time you can share experience,
I don't now how much knowledge, but experience with -- and help obviously
the students get a head start or -- and hopefully steer them away from
mistakes that can be avoided. And so that's extremely gratifying.
>> Colby Tibbet: I think it's also interesting that not even the range of
places that you taught the institutions, right? The variance between
let’s say, Fresno City or at Stanford, you know what I'm saying? Like
it's -- it kind of reflects just, you know, the -- your occupations and
your jobs and the community benefited organizations you've been a part of
and through your teaching, you know? So I ->> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: -- think that's really interesting.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, you know, I've always said -- felt that it's like
giving a talk or so forth. It's obviously much easier when you've had
some experience or some of the -- and at least believe that you know what
you're talking about as opposed to the alternative. So -- And it's
gratifying just to share -- to share thoughts because when you're
teaching, I mean very often you learn as much -- first of all, you have
to really refresh yourself in terms of knowing what you're talking about.
And that's a great test of -- I think of where you are with handling a
particular material because it's pretty hard. Well, you cannot teach
effectively, obviously, if you haven't. And so it forces you to focus.
And then once you're actually in the classroom and I'm sure people have
heard many professors and teachers say this, but you learn so much, you
know, from the students, obviously more -- some than others but it is. I
mean it's just a great discipline. It's a great learning experience, both
ways, I think with the difference between Fresno State and Fresno
Pacific. But part of that can have to do with, you know, whether lower
division or upper -- you know, and I mean that's just natural that in
some classes, degree required classes and so forth, they're not going to
have as much interest from the students and then, you know, they're not
going to be into it as much as possibly a senior who's really focusing on
what they think they're going to be doing when they get, well you know.
It's just practical aspects but, but it's fun to share and -- And of
course even in continuing education, part for attorneys, we basically are
teaching each other, I mean, all the time. I mean because who gives the
classes and so forth. So, a lot -- know, you know a lot of the classes,
so to me -- I suppose teaching -- you know, when you don't want it to
stop, I mean in terms of at least sharing with whether it's your kids or
friends, or peers, or whatever.
>> Colby Tibbet: The venue doesn't change. You're always doing it, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, yeah ->> Colby Tibbet: I mean the venue changes but you're always doing it --
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a fine line but I don't
know. It's been an interesting ride, you know? I've been really blessed.
So, I mean I -- I've had so many opportunities and I just think, you
know, the more opportunities that you're given, then the more obligation
you have to share and to do things -- I mean you -- come on, you got -- I
mean you got to give -- I mean we are -- when I reflect back and think of
where the opportunities we have, I mean I don't care where the United
States or at least during my generation compared to the rest of the
world, you know? I mean -- I mean percentage wise? I mean, it's just -- I
mean we’re all very fortunate. I don't think there's any doubt about
that.
>> Colby Tibbet: Also to acknowledge -- to give back or to reflect and be
able to ->> Jim Woodward: I mean what if you were born in situations for every
morning, I mean, you wake up, you're looking at survival, not, you know,
whether, what you're going to have for lunch, you know, come on. And
fortunately, we've had it pretty -- pretty well and particularly my gen,
we’ve, as I say, it's been pretty -- pretty easy. I mean, you know, so ->> Colby Tibbet: But then, I was -- like you said, not to just take that
for granted and not do anything with that, right? As to give back or to
do something to contribute?
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and the reality is and -- I mean, the reality is
and I mean, people say this but unless you've done it, I'm not sure, say
it with the same amount of heart and so forth is that you get back. You
get back so much more than you give -- I mean, it does, you know, it's
hardly fair, you know, I mean in that sense. I mean it's not -- I don't
think -- I mean, obviously, I think it's nice that people rewarded for
the things that they do but you really do -- I think the starting point,
though, on a lot of this, I know with my kids, I've talked a lot about,
tried to get them all involved in some form of competition or some kind
of sports or something. So, they realize that, you know, there's a direct
correlation, and yeah, there are some glitches, but it's direct
correlation about how much effort you've put in and what you're going to
get back out. I mean, and if they can learn that, if somebody learns that
fairly early, I think what's happening in a lot of instances, and again,
I am no psychologist, I’ll leave that to my wife. But I think -- I mean I
think it's pretty clear that, you know, you exercise a certain amount of
discipline and you’ve -- and you’ve give -- you're going to get a lot
back, you know. And what I like about sports is you -- it's pretty
immediate. You know, I mean, I did a lot of competitive swimming and,
well, every sport. Those days, we could in high school, you can do a lot
of sports, now you can only do one pretty much but I mean even playing
rugby at Cal and even freshman football, believe it or not. But rugby and
all, I mean it -- and I'm just glad. You know, I think that's what that
experience should be, you know, of figuring that out, not collecting
trophies but I just, just figuring that out that there is a correlation.
It may not be perfect.
>> Colby Tibbet: ‘Cause that’s more applicable to the rest of your life
as opposed to, like you said, a trophy, right, you know?
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah. And about the only other thing I've tried to press
my kids is that, you know, the more you do to build in your foundation
because I look at education as permanent, kind of broad and you've kind
of go this way. But the more you can build in the opportunity for
choices, that probably the better off you're going to be because I
certainly found that if hadn't been able to move a little, you know, and
I guess the reason I say this is because when I -- in the early 70's,
when I was trying to decide what to—kind of where to go next because I
found that the straight practice of law is a little bit limited. It's a
little bit repetitious and so forth. So I talked to quite a few older
attorneys, older that time, you know. I don't know what they were -- but
honestly, I found an awful lot on who weren't happy with what they were
doing and yet they were locked in. I mean they were -- and they had to
stay there because of the economics and, I mean, there worse places I'm
sure to be locked in but having said that, it's awfully nice to have some
flexibility to be able to make a few turns when you ->> Colby Tibbet: I guess it's kind of like the initial goal of higher
education as opposed to what it is a lot now where it's very vocational,
where it's like you're going to be a chemist so that’s all you're going
to focus on as opposed to, let's say, prior, maybe a decade or two where
it's about that variance, right, to be varied, you know, broad citizen to
be able to contribute in a multitude of ways as opposed to just one.
>> Jim Woodward: Well that's true and that is a problem. It's interesting
because my youngest son who is an engineer and -- eventually got a PhD,
actually and as well as masters and stuff and then robotics and so forth.
He just is -- Well, what's interesting to me is way back at Berkeley in
our fraternity, we had an engineer or two, and at that time, I felt so
badly for these people because they couldn't take any classes. They were
-- All they could take, I remember distinctly, I mean it was just -That's terrible. That's not education in full. It's fine but and sure
enough, our son who and you know, he is mid-30s now but as he got out and
started trying to figure it out, he just made the choice just the last
month of instead of getting in the ladder because Google and some of them
had been chasing him and so forth, rather than getting in a corporate
ladder for engineers, he took a job as a CTO over in Las Vegas with a
smart, you know, 50, probably something -- Laser and 3D outfit which
where he can be over -- I think he's over about a dozen people but to get
the management to get that exposure and to build in more flexibility to
see and some of these working with electrical, chemical and civil
engineers, you know. So, it’s -- it is interesting, you know, and you're
right. I mean, you know, and that's not all bad because I mean for some,
that works and it fits, but some, it doesn't is my only point.
>> Colby Tibbet: You know, it could be also a good thing that, you know
higher education or college could provide both of those. So, but I do
feel there’s a danger of more of the ladder seeping in as opposed to what
it used to be, so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, it's an interesting ride particularly when you get
to where I am -- at this point. You know, but I think it's important
never to get too locked in and if you can again, yeah. I mean if you can
have some flexibility and again it just worked better for me. I -- but
I'm sure there's others where there's more security and they'd feel more
secured just -- saying oh, and that’s nothing wrong with that. It's just
that wouldn’t have worked for me so much and I guess my feeling is if you
provide the opportunity both ways but to stay locked in, fine, you really
haven’t really lost much. But if you go the other way and do one or maybe
take a little different direction and can't, it's kind of sad but, you
know, we never -- it's hard to get it right, perfect every time. Somehow,
all of our decisions aren’t -- in fact, I'll never forget the orientation
at Stanford business school first day, they said, "If you can make the
correct decision, business decision, 50% or more of the time you're going
to be really successful." You know, I kind of got mine and then, of
course, then I went to law school and they didn't buy that. I don't think
that -- that didn't, that doesn’t sell for those people, but anyway. So,
it all depends on the audience, I guess, or the group you're working with
and so forth, so -- and I’m trying to think what the course was, but the
great thing at the business school is they, as particularly, as compared
with law school, they actually they force you to write a lot of papers of
all kinds, short, long, all kinds -- but they actually graded them. I
mean, they actually read them. They actually marked them up and they -Frankly, most of the law school professors were way too -- they're no way
they were going to spend that kind of time. They just, and they didn't -so they didn't have many writing courses. But I remember, in one class,
which I forgot which one it was. He, the professor circled all the I's,
you know, and said, you know, be careful when you're writing about I, I,
I, you know, and I don't know. I just always remember that and I
sometimes, I see that with people -- They don't realize what they're
doing and it's not that they're bad people, it was just that they don't,
you know -- So I have -- but when you're talking about yourself, you kind
of have to say I, you know. It's hard not to ->> Colby Tibbet: But I think it’s effective because what I was trying to
do is creating, like, anecdotal anchors, it's like what I like to call
it, or it's like, I would interject and give the basis for you able to
talk about yourself with some type of anchor to bring it back for people
who might, you know, for anyone to who’s paying attention or to anyone
who's going to be watching this or listening to it that they'll know,
"oh, this is why he's talking about it because it kind of leads into it."
>> Jim Woodward: No, and the good -- I mean you've added a lot of good, I
think, a good direction and just by which -- And the only reason I can
compare is because as we talked at lunch that Tammy was aware when they
did the other one with Michael. And I know more and more and then Marcie
just mentioned I guess more and more that they're going this route, you
know, and so the more techniques, you know, to help us when we’re in this
-- because we don't think about it.
>> Colby Tibbet: Yeah, your seat is much harder than I am I’m fully aware
->> Jim Woodward: I know, I know. Well, you know, I've always -- it kind
of backed if you know your material then it, you know, it's pretty easy
to give a talk but if you don't, it's kind of tough or if you're not
telling the truth, it's really tough. But I mean, if -- you know, so that
part doesn't bother me as much. But I just think it's great that it's
going to all this trouble because I mean there's a lot of resources by
the time you put every -- I didn't, you know, even realize until lunch
what kind of what was going on in that regard. So, I think that's great.
>> Colby Tibbet: And also you need comparisons when you talk about
Gottschalks and at also Guarantee how they both started in 1990, right?
>> Jim Woodward: Well hundred, yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: 1900, excuse me, so a little big difference.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: And how they pushed together, like I knew about the
history of Gottschalks and I knew a little bit about Guarantee but I
didn't know ->> Jim Woodward: Really parallel.
>> Colby Tibbet: How I mean just how parallel they were? So I mean that's
and that’s interesting to so.
>> Jim Woodward: Well, and it's just I happened to be, you know, in a
little different roles but involved with both and, of course, I knew the
families and all that. But it, the only bad part about it was it was sad
that the end result, just due to circumstances beyond every anybody’s
control. I mean it just -- But in both cases, you know, I it's hard not
to reflect back and say, you know, OK if that hadn’t happened, you know,
where would they be and could they have survived and in my humble
opinion, they definitely could have survived because there is no
difference between what Guarantee had and now Central Value Bank or just
these local banks. I mean there're no difference at all. There is no -Gottschalks, we would have run circles around Kohl’s and some of these
others. And, yeah, we didn't make the shareholders the kind of money we
would've liked and we had a lot of -- because we're competing with Tar -we’re competing with everybody in the world. I mean it was just -- But
that doesn't mean it had to go and that's what's frustrating, you know,
when you see something that didn't need to happen and it can happen so
quickly in business world. I mean, it’s just it’s -- Well, or even the ecommerce thing. We had a good deal going at Ag Zone, we were just about
six months late and so that thing unraveled and gosh, we went through all
different -- the vertices was another part of that and but all different
-- kind of spin-offs. And then it was almost by accident that we got into
this to the energy field. But part of that had to do with some technology
involving the ability to communicate out to wellheads and so forth and
so, anyway that it was technology that provided that connection. And it's
just interesting sometimes how business can go that direction and -- but
dealing with the people down in Houston, Texas is another interesting -It was a real redneck down there. They’re just, I mean, they are -- it's
something else.
>> Colby Tibbet: I went to Texas for the first time in January and I went
San Antonio and he was actually there not too long ago too.
>> Jim Woodward: Really?
>> Camera Operator: I go to Houston all the time. I live in Houston.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh, really?
>> Camera Operator: Yeah.
>> Jim Woodward: That's a kick, because my oldest son was in San Antonio
quite a while and -- But I just -- I mean, of course, I mean I like a lot
of what they're after but it, it is a kick.
>> Colby Tibbet: It was fine, I was telling my friends I was going to
Texas and they're everybody’s like, "Oh, man, be careful." I absolutely
loved it. I loved everything about Texas. So, it's absolutely -- it's
such a -- and I think it's the same thing with people who aren't from
California perceive California that same thing. Because I went there and
I was expecting just the worst and no, amazing people.
>> Jim Woodward: Yeah.
>> Colby Tibbet: Not very much different from -- San Antonio reminded me
a lot of Fresno in terms of its people with just the kind of attitude
that they had. So that was kind of cool.
>> Jim Woodward: Oh I didn’t, I mean like any travel after a while, it
gets old.
>> Colby Tibbet: So, I think next is that I don't know the next process
that we would hand it to you --