Alvin Quist interview
Item
Title
eng
Alvin Quist interview
Description
eng
A retired farmer talking about the growing trouble he had in his career securing water for his crops and the impact this had on his growing operation.
Creator
eng
Quist, Alvin
eng
Holyoke, Thomas
Relation
eng
Water Archive Oral Histories
Coverage
eng
California State University, Fresno
Date
eng
4/15/2013
Format
eng
Microsoft Word 2013 document, 10 pages
Identifier
eng
SCMS_waoh_00026
extracted text
[Silence]
>> Thomas Holyoke: We are interviewing Mr. Alvin Quist this morning.
>> Alvin Quist: Good morning! [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, let's start off with just a little personal
history. Are you from Fresno?
>> Alvin Quist: I was born in Fresno in the old Burnett Sanitarium in
1924. At that time, my parents lived in Caruthers, and so I have lived
most of my adult years in the Fresno area and Caruthers area, except for
about three years during World War II. I was a guest of the US Marine
Corps [Laughter], and I also attend Cal Poly; Central High School and Cal
Poly. And, I have a degree from Cal Poly in dairy science.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, you were born into a farming family?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, my father was an immigrant. He came from Denmark in
1908, settled in the Humboldt County, Ferndale area, up along the North
Coast of California, and found his loved one and wife there, and they
were married. And, he started in the dairy business there in 1913. It's
kind of interesting that most of the moves that he made during his
lifetime were as a result of some type of a water problem or situation.
Because, when he first went into the dairy business up in Humboldt
County, he and a partner started, a dairy on a little island called Cock
Robin Island. It's in the mouth of the Eel River. And, two winters in a
row, they had to take a rowboat to get from the house to the barn to milk
the cows. [Laughter] So, along about 1918, came the opportunity to come
to Caruthers, where there was no flooding, and everything was dry; which
he did. Follow that through to 1933, and we had one of the major
droughts, and there wasn't really any Pine Flat to help them out, and
they moved to this property that we are now, in 1933. So, we had a better
water supply. We were in the Fresno Irrigation District. Also, the wells
here, the water wasn't so deep. So, you didn't have to go so far down to
get the water out of the ground. And, one of them, one of the issues,
however, during those times was that most of the pumps were what we call
centrifugal pumps, and they used suction or air from the pump on the top
of the ground to pull the water up out of the water aquifer. And, you
weren't able to put more pipes; lengths of pipes down to get the water.
You had to take the pump and lower it in the ground, so that we had
centrifugal pumps that were down into 10, 20 feet below the ground level
to pump water. Fortunately, shortly after we moved to this property, of
course, we got into the turbine pumps, where the force or the action to
move the water came at the bottom of the well where the water was, and
pushed he water up into your availability; wherever it went into a ditch
or pipeline or where it went through. So, our history was kind of where
we were and what we were doing was kind of forced into a decision based
on water. Now, that's kind of a long dissertation, but that's the subject
we're talking about. So, that kind of gives you a history a little bit of
why we are. We sold our dairy, here three years ago; I mean our cows, so
we have no dairy operating anymore, but at that time, we had been in the
dairy business three generations in our family for 100 years in
California.
>> Thomas Holyoke: When the dairy business was going on; how many cows?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, our latest number of cows that we were milking was
about 400. That was the size of the herd when we sold out.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when your father first established his dairy down
here, it was all well water that you were using.
>> Alvin Quist: At Caruthers, yes, it was. When we moved to this
property, where we're located now, it also had FID, Fresno Irrigation
District water. And, we were fortunate that then that we had our
portioned amount; whatever that amount was, we got during the water year,
which was usually some time, depending upon how much the river was
flowing at the time, because there was no Pine Flat Dam to store water,
but we would be taking water probably as early as March or maybe April,
up into, very seldom did we get water past July before Pine Flat Dam.
And, so we had, we had irrigation district water, which would I guess
consider our main source, which was supplemented by well water, and then
when the irrigation district was no longer available later in the summer,
then we used pumps to pump the water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, before Pine Flat Dam and the reservoir went in,
and this in on the King's River, right?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes sir, yes, sir.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Before Pine Flat Dam, I mean, was the amount of water
you could take and use then dependent, well, on how much water then was
in the river that year?
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Yeah, there was no off stream storage or
storage or anywhere; it just depended on when the irrigation took their
allocation out of the river. And, of course, when the snow melted; that's
when the river ran. And, it depended some years on whether, on what the
weather was like; particularly in the mountains, so when the snow melt
was going to take place, and how much was going to come down through the
King's River. But, Fresno Irrigation District had a fairly-good
allocation of the water, or share of the water from the King's River,
even when it was all natural flow. But, still, the availability was
governed by when that water came down the river.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, at that time, did you still contract with Fresno
Irrigation District for a particular amount of water?
>> Alvin Quist: No, there were no contracts for a particular amount of
water. You apportioned your share of whatever came out of the river,
according to the number of acres that you had paid taxes on to the
irrigation district. Initially, on this property, which was 310 acres or
300 acres, 310 acres, we only had availability and were paying taxes on,
irrigation taxes on half of that. So, we had about 140 some or 150 acres
that had FID water available to it. I can't tell you the year that we did
this, but then some years later, then we were able to, and this is after
Pine Flat now. I doubt we would have been able to have down that before,
but after Pine Flat then, we were able to add another 160 acres to our
share of the water. Of course, we paid taxes on it like everyone else. We
weren't paying by the acre, foot, or any measurement like that at all. We
were paying, we were paying taxes for whatever the tax was for year, for
acre, and I can't tell you exactly what that was at that time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when Pine Flat Dam was put in by the Army Corps of
Engineers and the reservoir built, did that change the way you received
water or contracted for, were there contracts then after that for water?
>> Alvin Quist: There was no more contracts as far as the individual
landowner was concerned. He just received his share of that water. The
only changes were that they were able to store water; for example if we
had a wet spring. There really wasn't any need or any purpose in starting
to deliver water out of water that they knew later in the summer, because
they had the storage behind Pine Flat Dam, where they could keep that
water. And then, then they were able to take that water at the
appropriate time, determined by the board of directors, who at the time
were mostly farmers, and who recognized when the proper time was to
receive or maybe not the proper, but most -- generous or best time to use
that water. And, even some years, water was delivered up until September,
because they had water available from storage.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the building of the storage reservoir behind Pine
Flat Dam made it easier to farm and plan?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, it, it not only made it easier, but it made it more
economical, because it was cheaper to use irrigation district water than
it was to run pumps. So, but then, you could portion your time according
to what the irrigation decided to do, as far getting the water is
concerned.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Do you ever, in the history of your farm operation,
have you ever had any serious problems working with the Fresno Irrigation
District in terms of receiving your, an allocation of water.
>> Alvin Quist: No sir. Our only problems, if we had any, were local.
[Laughter] And, it's not a laughing matter when it happens to you, but
since we had a fairly good-sized block of land here, we'd be running more
than, when you take water, you run it both day and night. [Cuckoo clock]
You just don't come up to the corner and put the boards in the ditch, and
say, I don't want the water tonight. I'll come back and it in the
morning, or go down to the corner and flip the switch on the pump, which
you could do, and not bother anybody. But, getting back to the point that
I started to make, and that was that we were located on what we call the
end of the ditch; although the ditch went on down and jumped into another
canal. We were at the end of the ditch. There were quite a number of
water users up the ditch, up to the canal where the water was being
diverted from. And, on numbers of occasion, there would be those
landowners above us, between us and the ditch would start to divert maybe
a fourth or half of our flow of water that we would be getting during the
night. And, you know, we didn't have a man sitting out by the ditch all
night long just to see how much water was coming through the ditch, and I
can remember a number of times, because we irrigated row crops with
siphon tubes, and we'd have the water set at running, we'd have the right
number of siphon tubes set and running. You'd come in the morning, and
the ditch is broke, you're on the farm ditch is all broken, because the
water had been turned off, the siphon tubes ran out of suction, and then
the guy turned the water back down, came down, filled up the ditch, and
there was no suction in the siphon tubes, so then the ditch broke. And,
so, we had a lot of fun nights, or mornings, like that. But, as far as
generally speaking, it over all, when we ordered our water, we generally
got; or whenever our water turn came. We didn't order water, but when our
water turn came, that's when we got our water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: During dry years, did you have more trouble with your
neighbors over the water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I suppose that's a given, but I'm not sure.
[Laughter] I don't remember each specific case, but all I know is it
happens. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, back to your father for a bit. I understand he
was involved early on with the early King's River Conservation District.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, in 1951, beg, beg my indulgence on that, but I think
that's pretty close, there appeared to be a need, because Pine Flat then
had been authorized, and was going to be built; Pine Flat Dam.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, there needed to be some agency to contract for the
water storage rights behind Pine Flat Dam, and that agency was also going
to do some other things, and that is, do some water conservation efforts
out during that, into that whole over one million acre district that King
River Conservation District was supposed to encompass, and so they
determined that needed to form some kind of a public agency to be able to
negotiate their contract with the federal government. So, they set up a
formation committee, or they set up a board of directors with powers.
And, those powers were to then have a referendum amongst the voters in
this whole one million, one hundred thousand acre area; to authorize them
to go ahead and do these things. And, then, if that was passed; if that
referendum was passed, to follow through on those details, then there was
to be a new board elected within the district, and the old board, which
my father was the chairman of, who got together all the paperwork and all
the issues for the referendum. And, then, I had to go out and sell it, to
get the referendum passed, so there could eventually be a King's River
Conservation District with a board to manage it. And, that's where his
main involvement was, as far as the King's River Conservation District is
concerned, although he was kind of behind the scenes mover and shaker to
get the dam built and controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers, which
was no little mean project at the time. Because, the Bureau of
Reclamation through Central Valley Project were trying to get control of
that King's River water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Why was it important to have the Army Corps of
Engineers do it, rather than the Bureau of Reclamation?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I kind of eluded that just in my previous
statement, that the irrigation districts had already been set up, they'd
been running, and they really didn't see any need to have the Bureau of
Reclamation get involved with it. Because, they were going to be part of
Central Valley Project, and there was a concern that hey, what's
happening now? Where is the Central Valley Project or the Reclamation
water going? It's not going to the farmers, apparently. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, in another words, you're hoping to avoid a lot of
the problems with the water cutbacks that the Bureau of Reclamation has
had to do.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, and when you feel like, see, this I think started
back in 1921 really, when the irrigation districts, not all of them, but
a good number of the upper, what you call the upper river irrigation
districts were formed, and they felt kind of, I guess, this is not a good
word, but I'll use it anyway, [Laughter] a parentage to all that, all the
water that was coming down the King's River. There wasn't any need for
some outside agency to get involved in managing that water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, by setting up your own conservation district, you
were able to keep management local.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Although, as I understand it, eventually,
it was determined that conservation district didn't have the right, or
wasn't able to be the proper agency to contract with the federal
government for the storage space. The individual districts had to do
that, and pay for the conservation rights behind Pine Flat Dam, which
totaled 30% of the cost of the dam. So, then the irrigation districts
contracted with the federal government to pay their share of the dam,
which was 37%, which determined as the conservation benefit of Pine Flat
Dam. And, the percentage that each one of those districts paid was
according to the water, the appropriated water rights they had from the
State of California. Some were given an opportunity to pay their water
rights or whatever you want to call it; storage, storage rights, over a
long-term period. Some paid cash. But still, that allotted space then,
that had been allocated, was theirs. And, they could then, through the
King's River Water Association, tell the King's River Water Association
who had the power then to tell the Army Corps of Engineers, who operated
the dam, when to turn so much water out for this district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the irrigation districts, and then I suppose, the
farmers receiving the water then, paid for a substantial portion of
building Pine Flat Dam.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, that's all been paid now?
>> Alvin Quist: As far as I, yeah, I think the longest contract, for the
longest contracts, and don't hold me to this directly, but were 40 years;
40 year contracts, and see it's been well over that since it was built.
So, everybody, I assume everybody's paid off by now. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Going back to your father and his efforts to create
the conservation district, was it difficult to convince people to vote
for the referendum?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I think the vote was like 53 or 54%
46% against it, so it wasn't a done deal. So, there was a
convincing people and those that were more against it, of
people who lived around the fringe; primarily the city of
were included in the voting.
for it, around
lot of work
course, were
Fresno, who
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the conservation district levy a property tax?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, so some people around Fresno might have been
paying part of the tax, and weren't.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah. Okay. Were you then involved with the
conservation district later on?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I came on the board of the conservation district in
1985, and then I went off, after all, it was about 2002, whatever it was
anyway, and then I was off for a term, and went back on for a term. So,
totally, I solv--served around 20 years on the conservation district
board of directors. I was given the opportunity to serve as a chairman
for a period of time on the board, and was really taken with the
challenges that came with the conservation district board, had to face in
a number of areas of power development and other types of conservation
development, and off stream conservation, and having staff that'd also go
out and council the farmers on farm conservation practices and irrigation
practices. And of course, one of the big projects that the conservation
district had was when they put in the three turbine, three turbine power
plant just below Pine Flat Dam. And of course, that was easy to put in
one respect, in that the gates to have to receive water in the turbines
were already placed in the face of the dam before the dam was built; I
mean, at the time the dam was built. I believe that's true, and so it was
a matter it connected up, and getting a contract from the State of
California Water Resources Control Board, I think, were the contracted
agency for the power. Of course, you know, it only was able to make power
during the season that the irrigation districts and those that received
river water from Pine Flat were taking water into the river. When they
stopped taking water into the river in the late summer, early fall, or at
that time, there wasn't, they couldn't make power anymore.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Right. During your time on the conservation board,
were there any major particular problems or issues that you remember
dealing with?
>> Alvin Quist:
and that was, I
about this, but
be; 52 miles up
One was Roger's Crossing, which was another possible dam,
believe, was a rock or dirt-filled dam. I'm not sure
I think they contemplated that was what it supposed to
the King's River from Pine Flat Dam. And, that would have
been another dam to help regulate, control the flow, and also in high
water years, to have another place to store water, because it was going
to be able to store, I think about, again, about half as much as the Pine
Flat Reservoir was able to store. So, that was a significant amount of
water that it could have handled and stored. And then there was to be
also a power project with that one to help defray costs of construction
of it. But, there was some legislators in California; one that I'll not
name, but who was from the coastal area of California, who got all fussed
up over it, and wanted to put that; which at that time was supposed to be
reserved for these kinds of projects, clear back from when Bernie Sisk
was our congressman from this area. But, anyway, this person was able to,
or tried to get that also into the Wild and Scenic Rivers, but it was
instead placed in a special congressional management area. Don't ask me
what that, [Laughter] what that term means, except Wild and Scenic,
forget it. Special management area, we had to go back to congress and get
it taken out of that area. The needs are enough that you actually have to
have that perpetuity for whatever. You could get back to congress and get
congress to change that area into an area where you could put a dam. And,
that in a sense was kind of a disappointment. There was one, what
happened right after I came on the board, and that was the Dinkey Creek
Project. And, that was a project further up, and that was, that area
wasn't in Wild and Scenic at that time either. And, that project was
within two months of fruition when the purchaser of the power backed out,
which was PG and E. And, tried to get Southern California Edison to then
step in and take their place, but they, after a certain amount of time
decided that they weren't really interested in it either for whatever
reason. You know, they know, we don't know, but they know. [Laughter]
And, so that project without a power purchaser was disbanded, and all the
plans were put up on the shelves, and I don't know if they're still there
in the care of the [inaudible] but they were there for a long time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: That's two big dam projects that did not happen.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. But, then there was another thing, and
that happened just as I finished my second term, and that was a community
power plant that was to be built out by Parlier, just south of Parlier on
an acreage that we had purchased, and they were to use, it was just next
to the Parlier Sewage Treatment Plant. And, they were able to get water
from that to run the cooling towers for this power plant. But, that
project came primarily to a halt, because we were starting to get into
some, not us, but the financial world was starting to get into some
issues that the bonding agent determined that we weren't going to be able
to afford to pay for gas based on what the costs were going to be in
terms of financing it.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, these projects would have been funded by bonds
issued by the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, I understand. Did you end up doing any kind of
political advocacy work in your role at the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Not at, not at the conservation district. No, I did not.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: I did when I was on the first irrigation district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Reclamation refund of 19, in the 1970's.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, well actually, the effort took place in two years,
over a span of two years, 1980 through 1982. There had been a buildup
toward that in the 70's, but that's when the action took place in
congress, and it was the King's River was able to get to be part of an
old Western states reclamation law change to allow larger acreages than
160 acres to receive apportionment of reclamation water. And, within that
framework of legislation, King's River was able to get a part of the
legislation to indicate that the King's River, the Pine Flat Dam, or
whatever you want to call us at that time, was not a part of the
Reclamation Law. Particularly, in terms of managing or pricing or
collecting fees for water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was somebody claiming that it was?
>> Alvin Quist: There was a concern that it could happen, because there
was a bitter struggle back in the 40's, 30's and 40's, before Pine Flat
Dam was built, over who was going to build Pine Flat Dam. And, I don't
think, reclamation service, you know, could very well have, if they still
had their connection to this in some way, could have; congress has a lot
of power. Congress can override the Supreme Court.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Is that right?
>> Alvin Quist: I think. [Laughter] And, the sooner you get your own
house straightened out, the better off you are.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Who, in congress, did you deal with on this?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, this included most all the Western states; not our
particular issue but the reclamation reform. So, that they had senators
and the congressmen, not all of them, but like from Oregon, Washington,
Idaho, Montana, Arizona, whoever else in the West, were concerned about
reclamation and reclamation law. And, there was a larger organization, I
don't know what, well, I do know, but I can't remember what the name of
it was, that managed the whole process, and King's River people weren't
with that group, but we also had our own group working to make sure that
we didn't get left out somewhere along the way. And, it was really a
great thing when we able to get all that done.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was your own congressman helpful?
>> Alvin Quist: Chip Pashayan.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Chip, okay.
>> Alvin Quist: Was our congressman at the time, and the congressman
before him was John Krebs.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh, yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, you know, we are Democrat or we are a Republican. I
guess, that's the way we're, we're a Tea Party member now. In those days,
and today too, I guess, in a way, the Democrats kind of lean towards the
Reclamation Law, and the Republicans lean towards getting it more in the
hands of the local proprietary interests. And, so Krebs was voted out.
Pashayan was voted in. [Laughter] Whether there was any connection or
not, I couldn't tell you. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: While you're sort of wrapping up here, what are your
final thoughts about farmers and water in California today and where
things are going? [Cuckoo clock] [Laughter] [Background conversation]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, can we start that again?
>> Yeah, restart the question.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay. So, what are your sort of final thoughts here
about where things are going with farms, and agriculture, and water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I guess I'm going to have to go back in history,
and I apologize for that, for my perspective. Don't ever forget 1954,
when Pine Flat came into operation. That's when it was dedicated. In
1982, when we got reclamation law out of the King's River.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, those are the big events?
>> Alvin Quist: Those, in my mind, if I'm selecting dates and times that
things happened; those are big events.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: There were so many things that preceded Pine Flat Dam in
terms of going back to 1921, and what happened in between with
appropriating rights of water. Although, when appropriated rights came,
how they were all squared away and taken care of in the 40's and the
50's, and now the authorization for Pine Flat Dam was made during the
war, which was a little strange, I thought, that they would take on
something like that. That was in 1944. Well, but we did what we can when
we can.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Alright, is there anything else you'd like to say?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, thank you for the opportunity. [Laughter] That's a
given, huh? [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, thank you very much.
>> Alvin Quist: I hope I have been direct and clear enough so that what I
have said has been able to be understood.
>> Thomas Holyoke: I think it will.
>> Alvin Quist: And events pulled out of the annals of history [Laughter]
and used to good.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, thank you.
>> Alvin Quist: Okay. [Silence]
>> Thomas Holyoke: We are interviewing Mr. Alvin Quist this morning.
>> Alvin Quist: Good morning! [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, let's start off with just a little personal
history. Are you from Fresno?
>> Alvin Quist: I was born in Fresno in the old Burnett Sanitarium in
1924. At that time, my parents lived in Caruthers, and so I have lived
most of my adult years in the Fresno area and Caruthers area, except for
about three years during World War II. I was a guest of the US Marine
Corps [Laughter], and I also attend Cal Poly; Central High School and Cal
Poly. And, I have a degree from Cal Poly in dairy science.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, you were born into a farming family?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, my father was an immigrant. He came from Denmark in
1908, settled in the Humboldt County, Ferndale area, up along the North
Coast of California, and found his loved one and wife there, and they
were married. And, he started in the dairy business there in 1913. It's
kind of interesting that most of the moves that he made during his
lifetime were as a result of some type of a water problem or situation.
Because, when he first went into the dairy business up in Humboldt
County, he and a partner started, a dairy on a little island called Cock
Robin Island. It's in the mouth of the Eel River. And, two winters in a
row, they had to take a rowboat to get from the house to the barn to milk
the cows. [Laughter] So, along about 1918, came the opportunity to come
to Caruthers, where there was no flooding, and everything was dry; which
he did. Follow that through to 1933, and we had one of the major
droughts, and there wasn't really any Pine Flat to help them out, and
they moved to this property that we are now, in 1933. So, we had a better
water supply. We were in the Fresno Irrigation District. Also, the wells
here, the water wasn't so deep. So, you didn't have to go so far down to
get the water out of the ground. And, one of them, one of the issues,
however, during those times was that most of the pumps were what we call
centrifugal pumps, and they used suction or air from the pump on the top
of the ground to pull the water up out of the water aquifer. And, you
weren't able to put more pipes; lengths of pipes down to get the water.
You had to take the pump and lower it in the ground, so that we had
centrifugal pumps that were down into 10, 20 feet below the ground level
to pump water. Fortunately, shortly after we moved to this property, of
course, we got into the turbine pumps, where the force or the action to
move the water came at the bottom of the well where the water was, and
pushed he water up into your availability; wherever it went into a ditch
or pipeline or where it went through. So, our history was kind of where
we were and what we were doing was kind of forced into a decision based
on water. Now, that's kind of a long dissertation, but that's the subject
we're talking about. So, that kind of gives you a history a little bit of
why we are. We sold our dairy, here three years ago; I mean our cows, so
we have no dairy operating anymore, but at that time, we had been in the
dairy business three generations in our family for 100 years in
California.
>> Thomas Holyoke: When the dairy business was going on; how many cows?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, our latest number of cows that we were milking was
about 400. That was the size of the herd when we sold out.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when your father first established his dairy down
here, it was all well water that you were using.
>> Alvin Quist: At Caruthers, yes, it was. When we moved to this
property, where we're located now, it also had FID, Fresno Irrigation
District water. And, we were fortunate that then that we had our
portioned amount; whatever that amount was, we got during the water year,
which was usually some time, depending upon how much the river was
flowing at the time, because there was no Pine Flat Dam to store water,
but we would be taking water probably as early as March or maybe April,
up into, very seldom did we get water past July before Pine Flat Dam.
And, so we had, we had irrigation district water, which would I guess
consider our main source, which was supplemented by well water, and then
when the irrigation district was no longer available later in the summer,
then we used pumps to pump the water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, before Pine Flat Dam and the reservoir went in,
and this in on the King's River, right?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes sir, yes, sir.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Before Pine Flat Dam, I mean, was the amount of water
you could take and use then dependent, well, on how much water then was
in the river that year?
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Yeah, there was no off stream storage or
storage or anywhere; it just depended on when the irrigation took their
allocation out of the river. And, of course, when the snow melted; that's
when the river ran. And, it depended some years on whether, on what the
weather was like; particularly in the mountains, so when the snow melt
was going to take place, and how much was going to come down through the
King's River. But, Fresno Irrigation District had a fairly-good
allocation of the water, or share of the water from the King's River,
even when it was all natural flow. But, still, the availability was
governed by when that water came down the river.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, at that time, did you still contract with Fresno
Irrigation District for a particular amount of water?
>> Alvin Quist: No, there were no contracts for a particular amount of
water. You apportioned your share of whatever came out of the river,
according to the number of acres that you had paid taxes on to the
irrigation district. Initially, on this property, which was 310 acres or
300 acres, 310 acres, we only had availability and were paying taxes on,
irrigation taxes on half of that. So, we had about 140 some or 150 acres
that had FID water available to it. I can't tell you the year that we did
this, but then some years later, then we were able to, and this is after
Pine Flat now. I doubt we would have been able to have down that before,
but after Pine Flat then, we were able to add another 160 acres to our
share of the water. Of course, we paid taxes on it like everyone else. We
weren't paying by the acre, foot, or any measurement like that at all. We
were paying, we were paying taxes for whatever the tax was for year, for
acre, and I can't tell you exactly what that was at that time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when Pine Flat Dam was put in by the Army Corps of
Engineers and the reservoir built, did that change the way you received
water or contracted for, were there contracts then after that for water?
>> Alvin Quist: There was no more contracts as far as the individual
landowner was concerned. He just received his share of that water. The
only changes were that they were able to store water; for example if we
had a wet spring. There really wasn't any need or any purpose in starting
to deliver water out of water that they knew later in the summer, because
they had the storage behind Pine Flat Dam, where they could keep that
water. And then, then they were able to take that water at the
appropriate time, determined by the board of directors, who at the time
were mostly farmers, and who recognized when the proper time was to
receive or maybe not the proper, but most -- generous or best time to use
that water. And, even some years, water was delivered up until September,
because they had water available from storage.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the building of the storage reservoir behind Pine
Flat Dam made it easier to farm and plan?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, it, it not only made it easier, but it made it more
economical, because it was cheaper to use irrigation district water than
it was to run pumps. So, but then, you could portion your time according
to what the irrigation decided to do, as far getting the water is
concerned.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Do you ever, in the history of your farm operation,
have you ever had any serious problems working with the Fresno Irrigation
District in terms of receiving your, an allocation of water.
>> Alvin Quist: No sir. Our only problems, if we had any, were local.
[Laughter] And, it's not a laughing matter when it happens to you, but
since we had a fairly good-sized block of land here, we'd be running more
than, when you take water, you run it both day and night. [Cuckoo clock]
You just don't come up to the corner and put the boards in the ditch, and
say, I don't want the water tonight. I'll come back and it in the
morning, or go down to the corner and flip the switch on the pump, which
you could do, and not bother anybody. But, getting back to the point that
I started to make, and that was that we were located on what we call the
end of the ditch; although the ditch went on down and jumped into another
canal. We were at the end of the ditch. There were quite a number of
water users up the ditch, up to the canal where the water was being
diverted from. And, on numbers of occasion, there would be those
landowners above us, between us and the ditch would start to divert maybe
a fourth or half of our flow of water that we would be getting during the
night. And, you know, we didn't have a man sitting out by the ditch all
night long just to see how much water was coming through the ditch, and I
can remember a number of times, because we irrigated row crops with
siphon tubes, and we'd have the water set at running, we'd have the right
number of siphon tubes set and running. You'd come in the morning, and
the ditch is broke, you're on the farm ditch is all broken, because the
water had been turned off, the siphon tubes ran out of suction, and then
the guy turned the water back down, came down, filled up the ditch, and
there was no suction in the siphon tubes, so then the ditch broke. And,
so, we had a lot of fun nights, or mornings, like that. But, as far as
generally speaking, it over all, when we ordered our water, we generally
got; or whenever our water turn came. We didn't order water, but when our
water turn came, that's when we got our water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: During dry years, did you have more trouble with your
neighbors over the water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I suppose that's a given, but I'm not sure.
[Laughter] I don't remember each specific case, but all I know is it
happens. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, back to your father for a bit. I understand he
was involved early on with the early King's River Conservation District.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, in 1951, beg, beg my indulgence on that, but I think
that's pretty close, there appeared to be a need, because Pine Flat then
had been authorized, and was going to be built; Pine Flat Dam.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, there needed to be some agency to contract for the
water storage rights behind Pine Flat Dam, and that agency was also going
to do some other things, and that is, do some water conservation efforts
out during that, into that whole over one million acre district that King
River Conservation District was supposed to encompass, and so they
determined that needed to form some kind of a public agency to be able to
negotiate their contract with the federal government. So, they set up a
formation committee, or they set up a board of directors with powers.
And, those powers were to then have a referendum amongst the voters in
this whole one million, one hundred thousand acre area; to authorize them
to go ahead and do these things. And, then, if that was passed; if that
referendum was passed, to follow through on those details, then there was
to be a new board elected within the district, and the old board, which
my father was the chairman of, who got together all the paperwork and all
the issues for the referendum. And, then, I had to go out and sell it, to
get the referendum passed, so there could eventually be a King's River
Conservation District with a board to manage it. And, that's where his
main involvement was, as far as the King's River Conservation District is
concerned, although he was kind of behind the scenes mover and shaker to
get the dam built and controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers, which
was no little mean project at the time. Because, the Bureau of
Reclamation through Central Valley Project were trying to get control of
that King's River water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Why was it important to have the Army Corps of
Engineers do it, rather than the Bureau of Reclamation?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I kind of eluded that just in my previous
statement, that the irrigation districts had already been set up, they'd
been running, and they really didn't see any need to have the Bureau of
Reclamation get involved with it. Because, they were going to be part of
Central Valley Project, and there was a concern that hey, what's
happening now? Where is the Central Valley Project or the Reclamation
water going? It's not going to the farmers, apparently. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, in another words, you're hoping to avoid a lot of
the problems with the water cutbacks that the Bureau of Reclamation has
had to do.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, and when you feel like, see, this I think started
back in 1921 really, when the irrigation districts, not all of them, but
a good number of the upper, what you call the upper river irrigation
districts were formed, and they felt kind of, I guess, this is not a good
word, but I'll use it anyway, [Laughter] a parentage to all that, all the
water that was coming down the King's River. There wasn't any need for
some outside agency to get involved in managing that water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, by setting up your own conservation district, you
were able to keep management local.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Although, as I understand it, eventually,
it was determined that conservation district didn't have the right, or
wasn't able to be the proper agency to contract with the federal
government for the storage space. The individual districts had to do
that, and pay for the conservation rights behind Pine Flat Dam, which
totaled 30% of the cost of the dam. So, then the irrigation districts
contracted with the federal government to pay their share of the dam,
which was 37%, which determined as the conservation benefit of Pine Flat
Dam. And, the percentage that each one of those districts paid was
according to the water, the appropriated water rights they had from the
State of California. Some were given an opportunity to pay their water
rights or whatever you want to call it; storage, storage rights, over a
long-term period. Some paid cash. But still, that allotted space then,
that had been allocated, was theirs. And, they could then, through the
King's River Water Association, tell the King's River Water Association
who had the power then to tell the Army Corps of Engineers, who operated
the dam, when to turn so much water out for this district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the irrigation districts, and then I suppose, the
farmers receiving the water then, paid for a substantial portion of
building Pine Flat Dam.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, that's all been paid now?
>> Alvin Quist: As far as I, yeah, I think the longest contract, for the
longest contracts, and don't hold me to this directly, but were 40 years;
40 year contracts, and see it's been well over that since it was built.
So, everybody, I assume everybody's paid off by now. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Going back to your father and his efforts to create
the conservation district, was it difficult to convince people to vote
for the referendum?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I think the vote was like 53 or 54%
46% against it, so it wasn't a done deal. So, there was a
convincing people and those that were more against it, of
people who lived around the fringe; primarily the city of
were included in the voting.
for it, around
lot of work
course, were
Fresno, who
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the conservation district levy a property tax?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, so some people around Fresno might have been
paying part of the tax, and weren't.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah. Okay. Were you then involved with the
conservation district later on?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I came on the board of the conservation district in
1985, and then I went off, after all, it was about 2002, whatever it was
anyway, and then I was off for a term, and went back on for a term. So,
totally, I solv--served around 20 years on the conservation district
board of directors. I was given the opportunity to serve as a chairman
for a period of time on the board, and was really taken with the
challenges that came with the conservation district board, had to face in
a number of areas of power development and other types of conservation
development, and off stream conservation, and having staff that'd also go
out and council the farmers on farm conservation practices and irrigation
practices. And of course, one of the big projects that the conservation
district had was when they put in the three turbine, three turbine power
plant just below Pine Flat Dam. And of course, that was easy to put in
one respect, in that the gates to have to receive water in the turbines
were already placed in the face of the dam before the dam was built; I
mean, at the time the dam was built. I believe that's true, and so it was
a matter it connected up, and getting a contract from the State of
California Water Resources Control Board, I think, were the contracted
agency for the power. Of course, you know, it only was able to make power
during the season that the irrigation districts and those that received
river water from Pine Flat were taking water into the river. When they
stopped taking water into the river in the late summer, early fall, or at
that time, there wasn't, they couldn't make power anymore.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Right. During your time on the conservation board,
were there any major particular problems or issues that you remember
dealing with?
>> Alvin Quist:
and that was, I
about this, but
be; 52 miles up
One was Roger's Crossing, which was another possible dam,
believe, was a rock or dirt-filled dam. I'm not sure
I think they contemplated that was what it supposed to
the King's River from Pine Flat Dam. And, that would have
been another dam to help regulate, control the flow, and also in high
water years, to have another place to store water, because it was going
to be able to store, I think about, again, about half as much as the Pine
Flat Reservoir was able to store. So, that was a significant amount of
water that it could have handled and stored. And then there was to be
also a power project with that one to help defray costs of construction
of it. But, there was some legislators in California; one that I'll not
name, but who was from the coastal area of California, who got all fussed
up over it, and wanted to put that; which at that time was supposed to be
reserved for these kinds of projects, clear back from when Bernie Sisk
was our congressman from this area. But, anyway, this person was able to,
or tried to get that also into the Wild and Scenic Rivers, but it was
instead placed in a special congressional management area. Don't ask me
what that, [Laughter] what that term means, except Wild and Scenic,
forget it. Special management area, we had to go back to congress and get
it taken out of that area. The needs are enough that you actually have to
have that perpetuity for whatever. You could get back to congress and get
congress to change that area into an area where you could put a dam. And,
that in a sense was kind of a disappointment. There was one, what
happened right after I came on the board, and that was the Dinkey Creek
Project. And, that was a project further up, and that was, that area
wasn't in Wild and Scenic at that time either. And, that project was
within two months of fruition when the purchaser of the power backed out,
which was PG and E. And, tried to get Southern California Edison to then
step in and take their place, but they, after a certain amount of time
decided that they weren't really interested in it either for whatever
reason. You know, they know, we don't know, but they know. [Laughter]
And, so that project without a power purchaser was disbanded, and all the
plans were put up on the shelves, and I don't know if they're still there
in the care of the [inaudible] but they were there for a long time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: That's two big dam projects that did not happen.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. But, then there was another thing, and
that happened just as I finished my second term, and that was a community
power plant that was to be built out by Parlier, just south of Parlier on
an acreage that we had purchased, and they were to use, it was just next
to the Parlier Sewage Treatment Plant. And, they were able to get water
from that to run the cooling towers for this power plant. But, that
project came primarily to a halt, because we were starting to get into
some, not us, but the financial world was starting to get into some
issues that the bonding agent determined that we weren't going to be able
to afford to pay for gas based on what the costs were going to be in
terms of financing it.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, these projects would have been funded by bonds
issued by the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, I understand. Did you end up doing any kind of
political advocacy work in your role at the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Not at, not at the conservation district. No, I did not.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: I did when I was on the first irrigation district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Reclamation refund of 19, in the 1970's.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, well actually, the effort took place in two years,
over a span of two years, 1980 through 1982. There had been a buildup
toward that in the 70's, but that's when the action took place in
congress, and it was the King's River was able to get to be part of an
old Western states reclamation law change to allow larger acreages than
160 acres to receive apportionment of reclamation water. And, within that
framework of legislation, King's River was able to get a part of the
legislation to indicate that the King's River, the Pine Flat Dam, or
whatever you want to call us at that time, was not a part of the
Reclamation Law. Particularly, in terms of managing or pricing or
collecting fees for water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was somebody claiming that it was?
>> Alvin Quist: There was a concern that it could happen, because there
was a bitter struggle back in the 40's, 30's and 40's, before Pine Flat
Dam was built, over who was going to build Pine Flat Dam. And, I don't
think, reclamation service, you know, could very well have, if they still
had their connection to this in some way, could have; congress has a lot
of power. Congress can override the Supreme Court.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Is that right?
>> Alvin Quist: I think. [Laughter] And, the sooner you get your own
house straightened out, the better off you are.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Who, in congress, did you deal with on this?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, this included most all the Western states; not our
particular issue but the reclamation reform. So, that they had senators
and the congressmen, not all of them, but like from Oregon, Washington,
Idaho, Montana, Arizona, whoever else in the West, were concerned about
reclamation and reclamation law. And, there was a larger organization, I
don't know what, well, I do know, but I can't remember what the name of
it was, that managed the whole process, and King's River people weren't
with that group, but we also had our own group working to make sure that
we didn't get left out somewhere along the way. And, it was really a
great thing when we able to get all that done.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was your own congressman helpful?
>> Alvin Quist: Chip Pashayan.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Chip, okay.
>> Alvin Quist: Was our congressman at the time, and the congressman
before him was John Krebs.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh, yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, you know, we are Democrat or we are a Republican. I
guess, that's the way we're, we're a Tea Party member now. In those days,
and today too, I guess, in a way, the Democrats kind of lean towards the
Reclamation Law, and the Republicans lean towards getting it more in the
hands of the local proprietary interests. And, so Krebs was voted out.
Pashayan was voted in. [Laughter] Whether there was any connection or
not, I couldn't tell you. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: While you're sort of wrapping up here, what are your
final thoughts about farmers and water in California today and where
things are going? [Cuckoo clock] [Laughter] [Background conversation]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, can we start that again?
>> Yeah, restart the question.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay. So, what are your sort of final thoughts here
about where things are going with farms, and agriculture, and water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I guess I'm going to have to go back in history,
and I apologize for that, for my perspective. Don't ever forget 1954,
when Pine Flat came into operation. That's when it was dedicated. In
1982, when we got reclamation law out of the King's River.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, those are the big events?
>> Alvin Quist: Those, in my mind, if I'm selecting dates and times that
things happened; those are big events.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: There were so many things that preceded Pine Flat Dam in
terms of going back to 1921, and what happened in between with
appropriating rights of water. Although, when appropriated rights came,
how they were all squared away and taken care of in the 40's and the
50's, and now the authorization for Pine Flat Dam was made during the
war, which was a little strange, I thought, that they would take on
something like that. That was in 1944. Well, but we did what we can when
we can.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Alright, is there anything else you'd like to say?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, thank you for the opportunity. [Laughter] That's a
given, huh? [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, thank you very much.
>> Alvin Quist: I hope I have been direct and clear enough so that what I
have said has been able to be understood.
>> Thomas Holyoke: I think it will.
>> Alvin Quist: And events pulled out of the annals of history [Laughter]
and used to good.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, thank you.
>> Alvin Quist: Okay. [Silence]
[Silence]
>> Thomas Holyoke: We are interviewing Mr. Alvin Quist this morning.
>> Alvin Quist: Good morning! [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, let's start off with just a little personal
history. Are you from Fresno?
>> Alvin Quist: I was born in Fresno in the old Burnett Sanitarium in
1924. At that time, my parents lived in Caruthers, and so I have lived
most of my adult years in the Fresno area and Caruthers area, except for
about three years during World War II. I was a guest of the US Marine
Corps [Laughter], and I also attend Cal Poly; Central High School and Cal
Poly. And, I have a degree from Cal Poly in dairy science.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, you were born into a farming family?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, my father was an immigrant. He came from Denmark in
1908, settled in the Humboldt County, Ferndale area, up along the North
Coast of California, and found his loved one and wife there, and they
were married. And, he started in the dairy business there in 1913. It's
kind of interesting that most of the moves that he made during his
lifetime were as a result of some type of a water problem or situation.
Because, when he first went into the dairy business up in Humboldt
County, he and a partner started, a dairy on a little island called Cock
Robin Island. It's in the mouth of the Eel River. And, two winters in a
row, they had to take a rowboat to get from the house to the barn to milk
the cows. [Laughter] So, along about 1918, came the opportunity to come
to Caruthers, where there was no flooding, and everything was dry; which
he did. Follow that through to 1933, and we had one of the major
droughts, and there wasn't really any Pine Flat to help them out, and
they moved to this property that we are now, in 1933. So, we had a better
water supply. We were in the Fresno Irrigation District. Also, the wells
here, the water wasn't so deep. So, you didn't have to go so far down to
get the water out of the ground. And, one of them, one of the issues,
however, during those times was that most of the pumps were what we call
centrifugal pumps, and they used suction or air from the pump on the top
of the ground to pull the water up out of the water aquifer. And, you
weren't able to put more pipes; lengths of pipes down to get the water.
You had to take the pump and lower it in the ground, so that we had
centrifugal pumps that were down into 10, 20 feet below the ground level
to pump water. Fortunately, shortly after we moved to this property, of
course, we got into the turbine pumps, where the force or the action to
move the water came at the bottom of the well where the water was, and
pushed he water up into your availability; wherever it went into a ditch
or pipeline or where it went through. So, our history was kind of where
we were and what we were doing was kind of forced into a decision based
on water. Now, that's kind of a long dissertation, but that's the subject
we're talking about. So, that kind of gives you a history a little bit of
why we are. We sold our dairy, here three years ago; I mean our cows, so
we have no dairy operating anymore, but at that time, we had been in the
dairy business three generations in our family for 100 years in
California.
>> Thomas Holyoke: When the dairy business was going on; how many cows?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, our latest number of cows that we were milking was
about 400. That was the size of the herd when we sold out.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when your father first established his dairy down
here, it was all well water that you were using.
>> Alvin Quist: At Caruthers, yes, it was. When we moved to this
property, where we're located now, it also had FID, Fresno Irrigation
District water. And, we were fortunate that then that we had our
portioned amount; whatever that amount was, we got during the water year,
which was usually some time, depending upon how much the river was
flowing at the time, because there was no Pine Flat Dam to store water,
but we would be taking water probably as early as March or maybe April,
up into, very seldom did we get water past July before Pine Flat Dam.
And, so we had, we had irrigation district water, which would I guess
consider our main source, which was supplemented by well water, and then
when the irrigation district was no longer available later in the summer,
then we used pumps to pump the water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, before Pine Flat Dam and the reservoir went in,
and this in on the King's River, right?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes sir, yes, sir.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Before Pine Flat Dam, I mean, was the amount of water
you could take and use then dependent, well, on how much water then was
in the river that year?
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Yeah, there was no off stream storage or
storage or anywhere; it just depended on when the irrigation took their
allocation out of the river. And, of course, when the snow melted; that's
when the river ran. And, it depended some years on whether, on what the
weather was like; particularly in the mountains, so when the snow melt
was going to take place, and how much was going to come down through the
King's River. But, Fresno Irrigation District had a fairly-good
allocation of the water, or share of the water from the King's River,
even when it was all natural flow. But, still, the availability was
governed by when that water came down the river.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, at that time, did you still contract with Fresno
Irrigation District for a particular amount of water?
>> Alvin Quist: No, there were no contracts for a particular amount of
water. You apportioned your share of whatever came out of the river,
according to the number of acres that you had paid taxes on to the
irrigation district. Initially, on this property, which was 310 acres or
300 acres, 310 acres, we only had availability and were paying taxes on,
irrigation taxes on half of that. So, we had about 140 some or 150 acres
that had FID water available to it. I can't tell you the year that we did
this, but then some years later, then we were able to, and this is after
Pine Flat now. I doubt we would have been able to have down that before,
but after Pine Flat then, we were able to add another 160 acres to our
share of the water. Of course, we paid taxes on it like everyone else. We
weren't paying by the acre, foot, or any measurement like that at all. We
were paying, we were paying taxes for whatever the tax was for year, for
acre, and I can't tell you exactly what that was at that time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when Pine Flat Dam was put in by the Army Corps of
Engineers and the reservoir built, did that change the way you received
water or contracted for, were there contracts then after that for water?
>> Alvin Quist: There was no more contracts as far as the individual
landowner was concerned. He just received his share of that water. The
only changes were that they were able to store water; for example if we
had a wet spring. There really wasn't any need or any purpose in starting
to deliver water out of water that they knew later in the summer, because
they had the storage behind Pine Flat Dam, where they could keep that
water. And then, then they were able to take that water at the
appropriate time, determined by the board of directors, who at the time
were mostly farmers, and who recognized when the proper time was to
receive or maybe not the proper, but most -- generous or best time to use
that water. And, even some years, water was delivered up until September,
because they had water available from storage.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the building of the storage reservoir behind Pine
Flat Dam made it easier to farm and plan?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, it, it not only made it easier, but it made it more
economical, because it was cheaper to use irrigation district water than
it was to run pumps. So, but then, you could portion your time according
to what the irrigation decided to do, as far getting the water is
concerned.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Do you ever, in the history of your farm operation,
have you ever had any serious problems working with the Fresno Irrigation
District in terms of receiving your, an allocation of water.
>> Alvin Quist: No sir. Our only problems, if we had any, were local.
[Laughter] And, it's not a laughing matter when it happens to you, but
since we had a fairly good-sized block of land here, we'd be running more
than, when you take water, you run it both day and night. [Cuckoo clock]
You just don't come up to the corner and put the boards in the ditch, and
say, I don't want the water tonight. I'll come back and it in the
morning, or go down to the corner and flip the switch on the pump, which
you could do, and not bother anybody. But, getting back to the point that
I started to make, and that was that we were located on what we call the
end of the ditch; although the ditch went on down and jumped into another
canal. We were at the end of the ditch. There were quite a number of
water users up the ditch, up to the canal where the water was being
diverted from. And, on numbers of occasion, there would be those
landowners above us, between us and the ditch would start to divert maybe
a fourth or half of our flow of water that we would be getting during the
night. And, you know, we didn't have a man sitting out by the ditch all
night long just to see how much water was coming through the ditch, and I
can remember a number of times, because we irrigated row crops with
siphon tubes, and we'd have the water set at running, we'd have the right
number of siphon tubes set and running. You'd come in the morning, and
the ditch is broke, you're on the farm ditch is all broken, because the
water had been turned off, the siphon tubes ran out of suction, and then
the guy turned the water back down, came down, filled up the ditch, and
there was no suction in the siphon tubes, so then the ditch broke. And,
so, we had a lot of fun nights, or mornings, like that. But, as far as
generally speaking, it over all, when we ordered our water, we generally
got; or whenever our water turn came. We didn't order water, but when our
water turn came, that's when we got our water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: During dry years, did you have more trouble with your
neighbors over the water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I suppose that's a given, but I'm not sure.
[Laughter] I don't remember each specific case, but all I know is it
happens. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, back to your father for a bit. I understand he
was involved early on with the early King's River Conservation District.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, in 1951, beg, beg my indulgence on that, but I think
that's pretty close, there appeared to be a need, because Pine Flat then
had been authorized, and was going to be built; Pine Flat Dam.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, there needed to be some agency to contract for the
water storage rights behind Pine Flat Dam, and that agency was also going
to do some other things, and that is, do some water conservation efforts
out during that, into that whole over one million acre district that King
River Conservation District was supposed to encompass, and so they
determined that needed to form some kind of a public agency to be able to
negotiate their contract with the federal government. So, they set up a
formation committee, or they set up a board of directors with powers.
And, those powers were to then have a referendum amongst the voters in
this whole one million, one hundred thousand acre area; to authorize them
to go ahead and do these things. And, then, if that was passed; if that
referendum was passed, to follow through on those details, then there was
to be a new board elected within the district, and the old board, which
my father was the chairman of, who got together all the paperwork and all
the issues for the referendum. And, then, I had to go out and sell it, to
get the referendum passed, so there could eventually be a King's River
Conservation District with a board to manage it. And, that's where his
main involvement was, as far as the King's River Conservation District is
concerned, although he was kind of behind the scenes mover and shaker to
get the dam built and controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers, which
was no little mean project at the time. Because, the Bureau of
Reclamation through Central Valley Project were trying to get control of
that King's River water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Why was it important to have the Army Corps of
Engineers do it, rather than the Bureau of Reclamation?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I kind of eluded that just in my previous
statement, that the irrigation districts had already been set up, they'd
been running, and they really didn't see any need to have the Bureau of
Reclamation get involved with it. Because, they were going to be part of
Central Valley Project, and there was a concern that hey, what's
happening now? Where is the Central Valley Project or the Reclamation
water going? It's not going to the farmers, apparently. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, in another words, you're hoping to avoid a lot of
the problems with the water cutbacks that the Bureau of Reclamation has
had to do.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, and when you feel like, see, this I think started
back in 1921 really, when the irrigation districts, not all of them, but
a good number of the upper, what you call the upper river irrigation
districts were formed, and they felt kind of, I guess, this is not a good
word, but I'll use it anyway, [Laughter] a parentage to all that, all the
water that was coming down the King's River. There wasn't any need for
some outside agency to get involved in managing that water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, by setting up your own conservation district, you
were able to keep management local.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Although, as I understand it, eventually,
it was determined that conservation district didn't have the right, or
wasn't able to be the proper agency to contract with the federal
government for the storage space. The individual districts had to do
that, and pay for the conservation rights behind Pine Flat Dam, which
totaled 30% of the cost of the dam. So, then the irrigation districts
contracted with the federal government to pay their share of the dam,
which was 37%, which determined as the conservation benefit of Pine Flat
Dam. And, the percentage that each one of those districts paid was
according to the water, the appropriated water rights they had from the
State of California. Some were given an opportunity to pay their water
rights or whatever you want to call it; storage, storage rights, over a
long-term period. Some paid cash. But still, that allotted space then,
that had been allocated, was theirs. And, they could then, through the
King's River Water Association, tell the King's River Water Association
who had the power then to tell the Army Corps of Engineers, who operated
the dam, when to turn so much water out for this district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the irrigation districts, and then I suppose, the
farmers receiving the water then, paid for a substantial portion of
building Pine Flat Dam.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, that's all been paid now?
>> Alvin Quist: As far as I, yeah, I think the longest contract, for the
longest contracts, and don't hold me to this directly, but were 40 years;
40 year contracts, and see it's been well over that since it was built.
So, everybody, I assume everybody's paid off by now. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Going back to your father and his efforts to create
the conservation district, was it difficult to convince people to vote
for the referendum?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I think the vote was like 53 or 54%
46% against it, so it wasn't a done deal. So, there was a
convincing people and those that were more against it, of
people who lived around the fringe; primarily the city of
were included in the voting.
for it, around
lot of work
course, were
Fresno, who
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the conservation district levy a property tax?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, so some people around Fresno might have been
paying part of the tax, and weren't.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah. Okay. Were you then involved with the
conservation district later on?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I came on the board of the conservation district in
1985, and then I went off, after all, it was about 2002, whatever it was
anyway, and then I was off for a term, and went back on for a term. So,
totally, I solv--served around 20 years on the conservation district
board of directors. I was given the opportunity to serve as a chairman
for a period of time on the board, and was really taken with the
challenges that came with the conservation district board, had to face in
a number of areas of power development and other types of conservation
development, and off stream conservation, and having staff that'd also go
out and council the farmers on farm conservation practices and irrigation
practices. And of course, one of the big projects that the conservation
district had was when they put in the three turbine, three turbine power
plant just below Pine Flat Dam. And of course, that was easy to put in
one respect, in that the gates to have to receive water in the turbines
were already placed in the face of the dam before the dam was built; I
mean, at the time the dam was built. I believe that's true, and so it was
a matter it connected up, and getting a contract from the State of
California Water Resources Control Board, I think, were the contracted
agency for the power. Of course, you know, it only was able to make power
during the season that the irrigation districts and those that received
river water from Pine Flat were taking water into the river. When they
stopped taking water into the river in the late summer, early fall, or at
that time, there wasn't, they couldn't make power anymore.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Right. During your time on the conservation board,
were there any major particular problems or issues that you remember
dealing with?
>> Alvin Quist:
and that was, I
about this, but
be; 52 miles up
One was Roger's Crossing, which was another possible dam,
believe, was a rock or dirt-filled dam. I'm not sure
I think they contemplated that was what it supposed to
the King's River from Pine Flat Dam. And, that would have
been another dam to help regulate, control the flow, and also in high
water years, to have another place to store water, because it was going
to be able to store, I think about, again, about half as much as the Pine
Flat Reservoir was able to store. So, that was a significant amount of
water that it could have handled and stored. And then there was to be
also a power project with that one to help defray costs of construction
of it. But, there was some legislators in California; one that I'll not
name, but who was from the coastal area of California, who got all fussed
up over it, and wanted to put that; which at that time was supposed to be
reserved for these kinds of projects, clear back from when Bernie Sisk
was our congressman from this area. But, anyway, this person was able to,
or tried to get that also into the Wild and Scenic Rivers, but it was
instead placed in a special congressional management area. Don't ask me
what that, [Laughter] what that term means, except Wild and Scenic,
forget it. Special management area, we had to go back to congress and get
it taken out of that area. The needs are enough that you actually have to
have that perpetuity for whatever. You could get back to congress and get
congress to change that area into an area where you could put a dam. And,
that in a sense was kind of a disappointment. There was one, what
happened right after I came on the board, and that was the Dinkey Creek
Project. And, that was a project further up, and that was, that area
wasn't in Wild and Scenic at that time either. And, that project was
within two months of fruition when the purchaser of the power backed out,
which was PG and E. And, tried to get Southern California Edison to then
step in and take their place, but they, after a certain amount of time
decided that they weren't really interested in it either for whatever
reason. You know, they know, we don't know, but they know. [Laughter]
And, so that project without a power purchaser was disbanded, and all the
plans were put up on the shelves, and I don't know if they're still there
in the care of the [inaudible] but they were there for a long time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: That's two big dam projects that did not happen.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. But, then there was another thing, and
that happened just as I finished my second term, and that was a community
power plant that was to be built out by Parlier, just south of Parlier on
an acreage that we had purchased, and they were to use, it was just next
to the Parlier Sewage Treatment Plant. And, they were able to get water
from that to run the cooling towers for this power plant. But, that
project came primarily to a halt, because we were starting to get into
some, not us, but the financial world was starting to get into some
issues that the bonding agent determined that we weren't going to be able
to afford to pay for gas based on what the costs were going to be in
terms of financing it.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, these projects would have been funded by bonds
issued by the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, I understand. Did you end up doing any kind of
political advocacy work in your role at the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Not at, not at the conservation district. No, I did not.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: I did when I was on the first irrigation district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Reclamation refund of 19, in the 1970's.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, well actually, the effort took place in two years,
over a span of two years, 1980 through 1982. There had been a buildup
toward that in the 70's, but that's when the action took place in
congress, and it was the King's River was able to get to be part of an
old Western states reclamation law change to allow larger acreages than
160 acres to receive apportionment of reclamation water. And, within that
framework of legislation, King's River was able to get a part of the
legislation to indicate that the King's River, the Pine Flat Dam, or
whatever you want to call us at that time, was not a part of the
Reclamation Law. Particularly, in terms of managing or pricing or
collecting fees for water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was somebody claiming that it was?
>> Alvin Quist: There was a concern that it could happen, because there
was a bitter struggle back in the 40's, 30's and 40's, before Pine Flat
Dam was built, over who was going to build Pine Flat Dam. And, I don't
think, reclamation service, you know, could very well have, if they still
had their connection to this in some way, could have; congress has a lot
of power. Congress can override the Supreme Court.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Is that right?
>> Alvin Quist: I think. [Laughter] And, the sooner you get your own
house straightened out, the better off you are.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Who, in congress, did you deal with on this?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, this included most all the Western states; not our
particular issue but the reclamation reform. So, that they had senators
and the congressmen, not all of them, but like from Oregon, Washington,
Idaho, Montana, Arizona, whoever else in the West, were concerned about
reclamation and reclamation law. And, there was a larger organization, I
don't know what, well, I do know, but I can't remember what the name of
it was, that managed the whole process, and King's River people weren't
with that group, but we also had our own group working to make sure that
we didn't get left out somewhere along the way. And, it was really a
great thing when we able to get all that done.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was your own congressman helpful?
>> Alvin Quist: Chip Pashayan.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Chip, okay.
>> Alvin Quist: Was our congressman at the time, and the congressman
before him was John Krebs.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh, yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, you know, we are Democrat or we are a Republican. I
guess, that's the way we're, we're a Tea Party member now. In those days,
and today too, I guess, in a way, the Democrats kind of lean towards the
Reclamation Law, and the Republicans lean towards getting it more in the
hands of the local proprietary interests. And, so Krebs was voted out.
Pashayan was voted in. [Laughter] Whether there was any connection or
not, I couldn't tell you. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: While you're sort of wrapping up here, what are your
final thoughts about farmers and water in California today and where
things are going? [Cuckoo clock] [Laughter] [Background conversation]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, can we start that again?
>> Yeah, restart the question.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay. So, what are your sort of final thoughts here
about where things are going with farms, and agriculture, and water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I guess I'm going to have to go back in history,
and I apologize for that, for my perspective. Don't ever forget 1954,
when Pine Flat came into operation. That's when it was dedicated. In
1982, when we got reclamation law out of the King's River.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, those are the big events?
>> Alvin Quist: Those, in my mind, if I'm selecting dates and times that
things happened; those are big events.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: There were so many things that preceded Pine Flat Dam in
terms of going back to 1921, and what happened in between with
appropriating rights of water. Although, when appropriated rights came,
how they were all squared away and taken care of in the 40's and the
50's, and now the authorization for Pine Flat Dam was made during the
war, which was a little strange, I thought, that they would take on
something like that. That was in 1944. Well, but we did what we can when
we can.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Alright, is there anything else you'd like to say?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, thank you for the opportunity. [Laughter] That's a
given, huh? [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, thank you very much.
>> Alvin Quist: I hope I have been direct and clear enough so that what I
have said has been able to be understood.
>> Thomas Holyoke: I think it will.
>> Alvin Quist: And events pulled out of the annals of history [Laughter]
and used to good.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, thank you.
>> Alvin Quist: Okay. [Silence]
>> Thomas Holyoke: We are interviewing Mr. Alvin Quist this morning.
>> Alvin Quist: Good morning! [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, let's start off with just a little personal
history. Are you from Fresno?
>> Alvin Quist: I was born in Fresno in the old Burnett Sanitarium in
1924. At that time, my parents lived in Caruthers, and so I have lived
most of my adult years in the Fresno area and Caruthers area, except for
about three years during World War II. I was a guest of the US Marine
Corps [Laughter], and I also attend Cal Poly; Central High School and Cal
Poly. And, I have a degree from Cal Poly in dairy science.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, you were born into a farming family?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, my father was an immigrant. He came from Denmark in
1908, settled in the Humboldt County, Ferndale area, up along the North
Coast of California, and found his loved one and wife there, and they
were married. And, he started in the dairy business there in 1913. It's
kind of interesting that most of the moves that he made during his
lifetime were as a result of some type of a water problem or situation.
Because, when he first went into the dairy business up in Humboldt
County, he and a partner started, a dairy on a little island called Cock
Robin Island. It's in the mouth of the Eel River. And, two winters in a
row, they had to take a rowboat to get from the house to the barn to milk
the cows. [Laughter] So, along about 1918, came the opportunity to come
to Caruthers, where there was no flooding, and everything was dry; which
he did. Follow that through to 1933, and we had one of the major
droughts, and there wasn't really any Pine Flat to help them out, and
they moved to this property that we are now, in 1933. So, we had a better
water supply. We were in the Fresno Irrigation District. Also, the wells
here, the water wasn't so deep. So, you didn't have to go so far down to
get the water out of the ground. And, one of them, one of the issues,
however, during those times was that most of the pumps were what we call
centrifugal pumps, and they used suction or air from the pump on the top
of the ground to pull the water up out of the water aquifer. And, you
weren't able to put more pipes; lengths of pipes down to get the water.
You had to take the pump and lower it in the ground, so that we had
centrifugal pumps that were down into 10, 20 feet below the ground level
to pump water. Fortunately, shortly after we moved to this property, of
course, we got into the turbine pumps, where the force or the action to
move the water came at the bottom of the well where the water was, and
pushed he water up into your availability; wherever it went into a ditch
or pipeline or where it went through. So, our history was kind of where
we were and what we were doing was kind of forced into a decision based
on water. Now, that's kind of a long dissertation, but that's the subject
we're talking about. So, that kind of gives you a history a little bit of
why we are. We sold our dairy, here three years ago; I mean our cows, so
we have no dairy operating anymore, but at that time, we had been in the
dairy business three generations in our family for 100 years in
California.
>> Thomas Holyoke: When the dairy business was going on; how many cows?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, our latest number of cows that we were milking was
about 400. That was the size of the herd when we sold out.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when your father first established his dairy down
here, it was all well water that you were using.
>> Alvin Quist: At Caruthers, yes, it was. When we moved to this
property, where we're located now, it also had FID, Fresno Irrigation
District water. And, we were fortunate that then that we had our
portioned amount; whatever that amount was, we got during the water year,
which was usually some time, depending upon how much the river was
flowing at the time, because there was no Pine Flat Dam to store water,
but we would be taking water probably as early as March or maybe April,
up into, very seldom did we get water past July before Pine Flat Dam.
And, so we had, we had irrigation district water, which would I guess
consider our main source, which was supplemented by well water, and then
when the irrigation district was no longer available later in the summer,
then we used pumps to pump the water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, before Pine Flat Dam and the reservoir went in,
and this in on the King's River, right?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes sir, yes, sir.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Before Pine Flat Dam, I mean, was the amount of water
you could take and use then dependent, well, on how much water then was
in the river that year?
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Yeah, there was no off stream storage or
storage or anywhere; it just depended on when the irrigation took their
allocation out of the river. And, of course, when the snow melted; that's
when the river ran. And, it depended some years on whether, on what the
weather was like; particularly in the mountains, so when the snow melt
was going to take place, and how much was going to come down through the
King's River. But, Fresno Irrigation District had a fairly-good
allocation of the water, or share of the water from the King's River,
even when it was all natural flow. But, still, the availability was
governed by when that water came down the river.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, at that time, did you still contract with Fresno
Irrigation District for a particular amount of water?
>> Alvin Quist: No, there were no contracts for a particular amount of
water. You apportioned your share of whatever came out of the river,
according to the number of acres that you had paid taxes on to the
irrigation district. Initially, on this property, which was 310 acres or
300 acres, 310 acres, we only had availability and were paying taxes on,
irrigation taxes on half of that. So, we had about 140 some or 150 acres
that had FID water available to it. I can't tell you the year that we did
this, but then some years later, then we were able to, and this is after
Pine Flat now. I doubt we would have been able to have down that before,
but after Pine Flat then, we were able to add another 160 acres to our
share of the water. Of course, we paid taxes on it like everyone else. We
weren't paying by the acre, foot, or any measurement like that at all. We
were paying, we were paying taxes for whatever the tax was for year, for
acre, and I can't tell you exactly what that was at that time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, when Pine Flat Dam was put in by the Army Corps of
Engineers and the reservoir built, did that change the way you received
water or contracted for, were there contracts then after that for water?
>> Alvin Quist: There was no more contracts as far as the individual
landowner was concerned. He just received his share of that water. The
only changes were that they were able to store water; for example if we
had a wet spring. There really wasn't any need or any purpose in starting
to deliver water out of water that they knew later in the summer, because
they had the storage behind Pine Flat Dam, where they could keep that
water. And then, then they were able to take that water at the
appropriate time, determined by the board of directors, who at the time
were mostly farmers, and who recognized when the proper time was to
receive or maybe not the proper, but most -- generous or best time to use
that water. And, even some years, water was delivered up until September,
because they had water available from storage.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the building of the storage reservoir behind Pine
Flat Dam made it easier to farm and plan?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, it, it not only made it easier, but it made it more
economical, because it was cheaper to use irrigation district water than
it was to run pumps. So, but then, you could portion your time according
to what the irrigation decided to do, as far getting the water is
concerned.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Do you ever, in the history of your farm operation,
have you ever had any serious problems working with the Fresno Irrigation
District in terms of receiving your, an allocation of water.
>> Alvin Quist: No sir. Our only problems, if we had any, were local.
[Laughter] And, it's not a laughing matter when it happens to you, but
since we had a fairly good-sized block of land here, we'd be running more
than, when you take water, you run it both day and night. [Cuckoo clock]
You just don't come up to the corner and put the boards in the ditch, and
say, I don't want the water tonight. I'll come back and it in the
morning, or go down to the corner and flip the switch on the pump, which
you could do, and not bother anybody. But, getting back to the point that
I started to make, and that was that we were located on what we call the
end of the ditch; although the ditch went on down and jumped into another
canal. We were at the end of the ditch. There were quite a number of
water users up the ditch, up to the canal where the water was being
diverted from. And, on numbers of occasion, there would be those
landowners above us, between us and the ditch would start to divert maybe
a fourth or half of our flow of water that we would be getting during the
night. And, you know, we didn't have a man sitting out by the ditch all
night long just to see how much water was coming through the ditch, and I
can remember a number of times, because we irrigated row crops with
siphon tubes, and we'd have the water set at running, we'd have the right
number of siphon tubes set and running. You'd come in the morning, and
the ditch is broke, you're on the farm ditch is all broken, because the
water had been turned off, the siphon tubes ran out of suction, and then
the guy turned the water back down, came down, filled up the ditch, and
there was no suction in the siphon tubes, so then the ditch broke. And,
so, we had a lot of fun nights, or mornings, like that. But, as far as
generally speaking, it over all, when we ordered our water, we generally
got; or whenever our water turn came. We didn't order water, but when our
water turn came, that's when we got our water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: During dry years, did you have more trouble with your
neighbors over the water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I suppose that's a given, but I'm not sure.
[Laughter] I don't remember each specific case, but all I know is it
happens. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, back to your father for a bit. I understand he
was involved early on with the early King's River Conservation District.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes, in 1951, beg, beg my indulgence on that, but I think
that's pretty close, there appeared to be a need, because Pine Flat then
had been authorized, and was going to be built; Pine Flat Dam.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, there needed to be some agency to contract for the
water storage rights behind Pine Flat Dam, and that agency was also going
to do some other things, and that is, do some water conservation efforts
out during that, into that whole over one million acre district that King
River Conservation District was supposed to encompass, and so they
determined that needed to form some kind of a public agency to be able to
negotiate their contract with the federal government. So, they set up a
formation committee, or they set up a board of directors with powers.
And, those powers were to then have a referendum amongst the voters in
this whole one million, one hundred thousand acre area; to authorize them
to go ahead and do these things. And, then, if that was passed; if that
referendum was passed, to follow through on those details, then there was
to be a new board elected within the district, and the old board, which
my father was the chairman of, who got together all the paperwork and all
the issues for the referendum. And, then, I had to go out and sell it, to
get the referendum passed, so there could eventually be a King's River
Conservation District with a board to manage it. And, that's where his
main involvement was, as far as the King's River Conservation District is
concerned, although he was kind of behind the scenes mover and shaker to
get the dam built and controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers, which
was no little mean project at the time. Because, the Bureau of
Reclamation through Central Valley Project were trying to get control of
that King's River water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Why was it important to have the Army Corps of
Engineers do it, rather than the Bureau of Reclamation?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I kind of eluded that just in my previous
statement, that the irrigation districts had already been set up, they'd
been running, and they really didn't see any need to have the Bureau of
Reclamation get involved with it. Because, they were going to be part of
Central Valley Project, and there was a concern that hey, what's
happening now? Where is the Central Valley Project or the Reclamation
water going? It's not going to the farmers, apparently. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, in another words, you're hoping to avoid a lot of
the problems with the water cutbacks that the Bureau of Reclamation has
had to do.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, and when you feel like, see, this I think started
back in 1921 really, when the irrigation districts, not all of them, but
a good number of the upper, what you call the upper river irrigation
districts were formed, and they felt kind of, I guess, this is not a good
word, but I'll use it anyway, [Laughter] a parentage to all that, all the
water that was coming down the King's River. There wasn't any need for
some outside agency to get involved in managing that water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, by setting up your own conservation district, you
were able to keep management local.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. Although, as I understand it, eventually,
it was determined that conservation district didn't have the right, or
wasn't able to be the proper agency to contract with the federal
government for the storage space. The individual districts had to do
that, and pay for the conservation rights behind Pine Flat Dam, which
totaled 30% of the cost of the dam. So, then the irrigation districts
contracted with the federal government to pay their share of the dam,
which was 37%, which determined as the conservation benefit of Pine Flat
Dam. And, the percentage that each one of those districts paid was
according to the water, the appropriated water rights they had from the
State of California. Some were given an opportunity to pay their water
rights or whatever you want to call it; storage, storage rights, over a
long-term period. Some paid cash. But still, that allotted space then,
that had been allocated, was theirs. And, they could then, through the
King's River Water Association, tell the King's River Water Association
who had the power then to tell the Army Corps of Engineers, who operated
the dam, when to turn so much water out for this district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, the irrigation districts, and then I suppose, the
farmers receiving the water then, paid for a substantial portion of
building Pine Flat Dam.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And, that's all been paid now?
>> Alvin Quist: As far as I, yeah, I think the longest contract, for the
longest contracts, and don't hold me to this directly, but were 40 years;
40 year contracts, and see it's been well over that since it was built.
So, everybody, I assume everybody's paid off by now. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Going back to your father and his efforts to create
the conservation district, was it difficult to convince people to vote
for the referendum?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I think the vote was like 53 or 54%
46% against it, so it wasn't a done deal. So, there was a
convincing people and those that were more against it, of
people who lived around the fringe; primarily the city of
were included in the voting.
for it, around
lot of work
course, were
Fresno, who
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the conservation district levy a property tax?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, so some people around Fresno might have been
paying part of the tax, and weren't.
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah. Okay. Were you then involved with the
conservation district later on?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I came on the board of the conservation district in
1985, and then I went off, after all, it was about 2002, whatever it was
anyway, and then I was off for a term, and went back on for a term. So,
totally, I solv--served around 20 years on the conservation district
board of directors. I was given the opportunity to serve as a chairman
for a period of time on the board, and was really taken with the
challenges that came with the conservation district board, had to face in
a number of areas of power development and other types of conservation
development, and off stream conservation, and having staff that'd also go
out and council the farmers on farm conservation practices and irrigation
practices. And of course, one of the big projects that the conservation
district had was when they put in the three turbine, three turbine power
plant just below Pine Flat Dam. And of course, that was easy to put in
one respect, in that the gates to have to receive water in the turbines
were already placed in the face of the dam before the dam was built; I
mean, at the time the dam was built. I believe that's true, and so it was
a matter it connected up, and getting a contract from the State of
California Water Resources Control Board, I think, were the contracted
agency for the power. Of course, you know, it only was able to make power
during the season that the irrigation districts and those that received
river water from Pine Flat were taking water into the river. When they
stopped taking water into the river in the late summer, early fall, or at
that time, there wasn't, they couldn't make power anymore.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Right. During your time on the conservation board,
were there any major particular problems or issues that you remember
dealing with?
>> Alvin Quist:
and that was, I
about this, but
be; 52 miles up
One was Roger's Crossing, which was another possible dam,
believe, was a rock or dirt-filled dam. I'm not sure
I think they contemplated that was what it supposed to
the King's River from Pine Flat Dam. And, that would have
been another dam to help regulate, control the flow, and also in high
water years, to have another place to store water, because it was going
to be able to store, I think about, again, about half as much as the Pine
Flat Reservoir was able to store. So, that was a significant amount of
water that it could have handled and stored. And then there was to be
also a power project with that one to help defray costs of construction
of it. But, there was some legislators in California; one that I'll not
name, but who was from the coastal area of California, who got all fussed
up over it, and wanted to put that; which at that time was supposed to be
reserved for these kinds of projects, clear back from when Bernie Sisk
was our congressman from this area. But, anyway, this person was able to,
or tried to get that also into the Wild and Scenic Rivers, but it was
instead placed in a special congressional management area. Don't ask me
what that, [Laughter] what that term means, except Wild and Scenic,
forget it. Special management area, we had to go back to congress and get
it taken out of that area. The needs are enough that you actually have to
have that perpetuity for whatever. You could get back to congress and get
congress to change that area into an area where you could put a dam. And,
that in a sense was kind of a disappointment. There was one, what
happened right after I came on the board, and that was the Dinkey Creek
Project. And, that was a project further up, and that was, that area
wasn't in Wild and Scenic at that time either. And, that project was
within two months of fruition when the purchaser of the power backed out,
which was PG and E. And, tried to get Southern California Edison to then
step in and take their place, but they, after a certain amount of time
decided that they weren't really interested in it either for whatever
reason. You know, they know, we don't know, but they know. [Laughter]
And, so that project without a power purchaser was disbanded, and all the
plans were put up on the shelves, and I don't know if they're still there
in the care of the [inaudible] but they were there for a long time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: That's two big dam projects that did not happen.
>> Alvin Quist: That's correct. But, then there was another thing, and
that happened just as I finished my second term, and that was a community
power plant that was to be built out by Parlier, just south of Parlier on
an acreage that we had purchased, and they were to use, it was just next
to the Parlier Sewage Treatment Plant. And, they were able to get water
from that to run the cooling towers for this power plant. But, that
project came primarily to a halt, because we were starting to get into
some, not us, but the financial world was starting to get into some
issues that the bonding agent determined that we weren't going to be able
to afford to pay for gas based on what the costs were going to be in
terms of financing it.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, these projects would have been funded by bonds
issued by the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, I understand. Did you end up doing any kind of
political advocacy work in your role at the conservation district?
>> Alvin Quist: Not at, not at the conservation district. No, I did not.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: I did when I was on the first irrigation district.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Reclamation refund of 19, in the 1970's.
>> Alvin Quist: Yeah, well actually, the effort took place in two years,
over a span of two years, 1980 through 1982. There had been a buildup
toward that in the 70's, but that's when the action took place in
congress, and it was the King's River was able to get to be part of an
old Western states reclamation law change to allow larger acreages than
160 acres to receive apportionment of reclamation water. And, within that
framework of legislation, King's River was able to get a part of the
legislation to indicate that the King's River, the Pine Flat Dam, or
whatever you want to call us at that time, was not a part of the
Reclamation Law. Particularly, in terms of managing or pricing or
collecting fees for water.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was somebody claiming that it was?
>> Alvin Quist: There was a concern that it could happen, because there
was a bitter struggle back in the 40's, 30's and 40's, before Pine Flat
Dam was built, over who was going to build Pine Flat Dam. And, I don't
think, reclamation service, you know, could very well have, if they still
had their connection to this in some way, could have; congress has a lot
of power. Congress can override the Supreme Court.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Is that right?
>> Alvin Quist: I think. [Laughter] And, the sooner you get your own
house straightened out, the better off you are.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Who, in congress, did you deal with on this?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, this included most all the Western states; not our
particular issue but the reclamation reform. So, that they had senators
and the congressmen, not all of them, but like from Oregon, Washington,
Idaho, Montana, Arizona, whoever else in the West, were concerned about
reclamation and reclamation law. And, there was a larger organization, I
don't know what, well, I do know, but I can't remember what the name of
it was, that managed the whole process, and King's River people weren't
with that group, but we also had our own group working to make sure that
we didn't get left out somewhere along the way. And, it was really a
great thing when we able to get all that done.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was your own congressman helpful?
>> Alvin Quist: Chip Pashayan.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Chip, okay.
>> Alvin Quist: Was our congressman at the time, and the congressman
before him was John Krebs.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh, yeah.
>> Alvin Quist: And, you know, we are Democrat or we are a Republican. I
guess, that's the way we're, we're a Tea Party member now. In those days,
and today too, I guess, in a way, the Democrats kind of lean towards the
Reclamation Law, and the Republicans lean towards getting it more in the
hands of the local proprietary interests. And, so Krebs was voted out.
Pashayan was voted in. [Laughter] Whether there was any connection or
not, I couldn't tell you. [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: While you're sort of wrapping up here, what are your
final thoughts about farmers and water in California today and where
things are going? [Cuckoo clock] [Laughter] [Background conversation]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, can we start that again?
>> Yeah, restart the question.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay. So, what are your sort of final thoughts here
about where things are going with farms, and agriculture, and water?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, I guess I'm going to have to go back in history,
and I apologize for that, for my perspective. Don't ever forget 1954,
when Pine Flat came into operation. That's when it was dedicated. In
1982, when we got reclamation law out of the King's River.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, those are the big events?
>> Alvin Quist: Those, in my mind, if I'm selecting dates and times that
things happened; those are big events.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> Alvin Quist: There were so many things that preceded Pine Flat Dam in
terms of going back to 1921, and what happened in between with
appropriating rights of water. Although, when appropriated rights came,
how they were all squared away and taken care of in the 40's and the
50's, and now the authorization for Pine Flat Dam was made during the
war, which was a little strange, I thought, that they would take on
something like that. That was in 1944. Well, but we did what we can when
we can.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Alright, is there anything else you'd like to say?
>> Alvin Quist: Well, thank you for the opportunity. [Laughter] That's a
given, huh? [Laughter]
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, thank you very much.
>> Alvin Quist: I hope I have been direct and clear enough so that what I
have said has been able to be understood.
>> Thomas Holyoke: I think it will.
>> Alvin Quist: And events pulled out of the annals of history [Laughter]
and used to good.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, thank you.
>> Alvin Quist: Okay. [Silence]