Water Archives · James Sorenson interview

Title

eng James Sorenson interview

Description

eng One of the earliest water engineers in the Valley, who was responsible for designing and building the irrigation system in Orange Cove and other east side farm towns.

Creator

eng Sorenson, James

eng Holyoke, Thomas

Relation

eng Water Archive Oral Histories

Coverage

eng James Sorenson residence

Date

eng 12/1/2014

Format

eng Microsoft Word 2013 document, 22 pages

Identifier

eng SCMS_waoh_00021

extracted text

>> Thomas Holyoke: Mr. James Sorenson, where are you from? Where were you
born?
>> James Sorenson: Well, I was born and raised in Fresno, actually on the
ranch which is now well inside the city of Fresno but as a kid, we were
about -- well, almost at Shaw Avenue.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> James Sorenson: On First Street and I went to Wolters Grade School,
and then Clovis High School because the district came right up to the
edge of Fresno, and then this was pretty, pretty slow time in business
and everything else. And so, Fresno State was the obvious place to go to
college and to get started at least because I expected to get to
University of California at Berkeley, ultimately. And it worked out that
way. I had neglected somehow to get second-year Algebra in high school
and it took me an extra year to catch up. Because the schedules were such
that the Fresno State math course that I needed and whether it was
calculus, at the moment, I just don't remember. But at any rate, it was
on the courses that I had to do to make up on. It was on an annual basis
so I, in effect, had to take an extra year. But I worked half-time for
the Fresno Irrigation District. And that probably turned out just right
and I -- of course, I had been in the irrigation and water business all
my life.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Did you study engineering at Fresno State and
Berkeley?
>> James Sorenson: Yes, I started off in engineering, took all the basic
courses and particularly enjoyed some of the courses that Herbert Wheaton
gave. I became very friendly with him and I really -- as time has passed,
appreciated him tremendously for the -- you might say the mentoring along
the line and the courses he had and I think he probably was instrumental
in keeping me on track in getting to Berkeley. So that, I always have
particularly appreciated his efforts. But I worked at Fresno Irrigation
District here three days a week and went to Fresno State three days a
week. In effect, I guess it was two-and-a-half days, I mean, whatever.
But I worked at Fresno Irrigation District originally as a hydrographer
measuring canals. And you're probably aware that there are like 250,000
acres in (some such). So there was a lot of territory to roam and I did a
lot of hydrography measuring the volumes of water in various canals. And
the district is well, at least 30 miles across east and west. And so,
that was good experience and then I worked inside part of the times and I
think of a foggy morning like this one and I noticed the survey crew
working here in Visalia two minutes ago and I thought, "My goodness, the
instrumentation I'm used to didn't work very well on foggy mornings." But
in any rate, it was surveys for property lines. I mean, rights of ways
for canals and pipelines. I did that steadily. Anson Gerner was then the
chief engineer and manager and he was an old Cal grad and so and my
father also as far as that's concerned. So I was pretty well oriented to
Berkeley from the beginning.
>> Thomas Holyoke: About what year or so are we talking about here?

>> James Sorenson: Well, I graduated from high school in 1936 and then I
graduated at Berkeley in well, May of 1941, just ahead of Pearl Harbor.
And I didn't always have the best grades in anything. And as a matter of
fact, in five years of college, counting that half year, I only got one A
but it was the last A. At that time, civil engineering at Berkeley for a
bachelor's degree required a thesis. And I got an A on my thesis. So I
felt that I had redeemed myself a little bit [laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: What was the thesis on?
>> James Sorenson: Now that's interesting in that and I really have no
particular thought about how that came about. But at any rate, I chose
the Madera Irrigation District as one that was representative, you might
say, overall problem in irrigation and water supply for the San Joaquin
Valley. And it was then at the time the Friant Dam was being completed
and a lot of things were sort of in midair, you might say. And somehow, I
got to know Harry Barnes who was then the chief engineer and manager of
Madera Irrigation District and he was a great guy and I enjoyed my
contacts with him and he was very helpful to me in providing a lot of
data and background and the likes of that. So that got me through
college. I had one goal to stumble. At one time, I more or less -- well I
think the letter actually said they regretted to inform me I was no
longer a student at Cal but I could get reinstated if I had petitions
from three licensed engineers and met with the dean of the College of
Engineering and got approval to get back in. So I went through that
routine and I remember meeting with the dean who was Charles Derleths who
was an engineer of some renown particularly on bridge design. I think,
particularly of the old Carquinez Bridge. I think he was the chief
designer. And so I finally got to meet with him to try to bail myself out
of trouble and along the line, I said, "Well, my father had graduated in
civil engineering at Berkeley in 1909." And he turned to his secretary
who was sitting there and said, "Get me his records." So pretty quick,
she appeared with a file and he perused it quickly and said, "He never
got into any kind of trouble like this." But at any rate, I got
reinstated and managed to graduate in May of 1941 so that had turned out.
So following that, and of course, this was draft time and all such
things. And as a student, I had been -- well, it was before Pearl Harbor
anyway so the student business and I don't remember exactly this routine.
But at any rate, I graduated and then I went to work for the Corps of
Engineers in Sacramento doing airfield design and drainage prob-solutions for all the airfields including Hammer Field, Hammer Field
which is now Fresno Air Terminal and [inaudible] air base. And I did some
work at Lemoore and Marysville and some went up to Sacramento Valley and
worked at that which was, you might say, in my field. But I was restive
under the -- whoever my superior was and pretty quick got together with a
friend in the Corps who was doing liaison work on the construction of the
Sharpe Army Depot at Manteca. And I ended up leaving the Corps and going
over to work for HJ Brunnier, a prominent San Francisco engineer who had,
I believe, one of the early architect engineer contracts and of course,
it was a big layout. And immediately, after I had been in San Francisco
to meet with him and tell him I only had six or eight months because I
was, by that time, at the Naval Reserve and so I was there at Manteca.
There were a couple of classmates of mine from Cal who were there also.
We used -- the contractor used a million pounds of cement every day for

months laying down the soil, cement parts and as part of the depot and
for open storage and then I wouldn't know how many warehouses but I would
guess 15 or 20 big timber warehouses. And the hours were very irregular
because I would guess the project was probably on an almost, you might
say, a 24-hour construction basis. But I had -- when I got into the Naval
Reserve, I was given the option of three different schools to go to. One
was Penn State, and another college more or less in the East, and the
Naval Academy and so I chose the Naval Academy or they chose me, I really
can't be sure. But I was happy to have it turn out that way because those
were only four or five month’s duties. But I was commissioned there and
through a rather strange set of circumstances ended up in the Navy Bureau
of Ordnance instead of the Navy Bureau of Ships which normally would have
been the routine that having been commissioned there. And I know how it
came about because I said, "Well, I'd like to be on a relatively small
ship," and there was a mine sweep that had, I believe, like 70 men and
seven officers or some section. And that appealed to me because there
would be some real active duty. So having gotten switched over to the
Bureau of Ordnance, I had several weeks' assignment of going to munitions
factories on the East Coast looking at various types of ordnance and then
was asked if I wanted to go on advanced -- well, I shouldn't say asked,
but I was asked if I would rather go to Africa or Alaska. And in advanced
base work which was predestined. So since I could get 30 days' leave, I
was like took Alaska. I did that and got to come back to Fresno for a
while then I ended up on Amchitka which is very close to the end of the
Aleutians, not too far from Russia, as a matter of fact. And this came
about; I'm sure because the Japanese had landed on Attu and Kiska. And
there was a lot of Navy action in the -- Amchitka. We had the commanding
officer was a lieutenant commander and I [inaudible], oh not more than 10
officers and say 100 men. And the Navy and the Army had 10,000 people
there and I'm not sure of this but I think there was a big concern that
the Japanese were -- it was either a diversionary thing or the Japanese
conceivably might have thought they could come back up to the Aleutians
to Alaska and north end of the continental US. Any rate, there was an
action at Attu and they ran the Japanese out and at Kiska, they made a
landing but there were no Japanese left. They had departed in the fog
because there was lots of fog up there [laughter]. So then, after I was
up there, I think about 11 months, if I remember and then I got assigned
to sit in Seattle for a little while then I got orders to the battleship
Mississippi which was coming into Bremerton. And as a matter of fact, the
day I was to appear, I was at Bremerton, I really don't remember staying
at Bremerton but I must have been there a day or two at least. But I got
a shore boat to go out to the Mississippi and as I crawled aboard, she
got underway to go into dry dock for three months [laughter] at
Bremerton. And that was an interesting thing because they had had a
terrible turret accident. About 40 men had been killed and so they had
all sorts of work to do on this turret and those old -- it was one of the
six old battleships that actually ended up for bombardment, for preinvasion duty and they were old and were rele-- quite slow. They were
laid down in oh, 1915 to 1917 and had like 30 to 40,000 horsepower and I
wouldn't be sure now of the maximum speed but it wouldn't compare with
some of the modern carriers that go maybe 25 to 30 knots or even more.
But at any rate, for three months, we crawled over cables and workmen and
all such and finally took off for the South Pacific and after a stop in

Pearl Harbor and so I went down to the Palau Islands and were in that
operation that put [inaudible] and ->> Thomas Holyoke: The Mississippi was doing bombardment?
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, we would lie offshore two or three days ahead of
the actual invasion schedule and bombard the -- well, various, well
whatever enemy facilities they had determined they wanted to, needed to
be neutralized at the very least ahead of these invasions. And so we
would, we buttoned up and it was hot, of course, and then we were, and I
can't tell you at the minute but we were probably in about, well, three
or four of those pre-invasion operations.
>> Thomas Holyoke: What was your assignment on the Mississippi
[inaudible]?
>> James Sorenson: Okay, by this time, I'm an engineering officer.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh.
>> James Sorenson: And so I ended up with -- I was of course, I was an
ensign at that stage and this was interesting. I, by that time, should
have been a junior grade lieutenant but it hadn't come through for
whatever reason and I ended up as an ensign for an extra, I don't know,
nine or 10 months or so. But I had a very short tenure as a lieutenant
junior grade maybe only two or three months because I got the second
stripe. And so I had the auxiliary division in the engineering and early
on, I was the junior guy but then I ended up as division officer and we
had the evaporators and just as the auxiliary equipment and some
electrical duty and oh, various things among them being the shore boats.
And these, the ship had two or possibly three, anyway two shore boats and
they were about, oh I suppose 20 feet long, something like two, pretty
standard thing and would have a crew of three or nearly. And the only
time, I mean the reason I mention it was an interesting thing. We were
and I can't remember where, more or less, weighing something and so the
Japanese were coming along with kamikazes, the suicide planes. So there
was fog to be laid down around all the ships and so on. Well, something
needed attention on one shore boat and so the Chief Petty Officer
[inaudible] and sent him out on that one. Well pretty quick, another one
needed help and so I went. And here we are, streaming fog out the stern
of this whale boat and we're right on the open. And I remember thinking,
"My goodness. We're an open target but who cares about this whale boat?"
I mean, as far as a target. But [inaudible] down and oh, I was able to
doctor the engine enough so that operated in the -- we got through that
one and did, as I say, several of these pre-invasion things. And then,
we're at Okinawa bombarding up and got credit for destroying Shuri
Castle, banging on it long enough. And as you may know, Okinawa was a
sort of a dragged out thing because the Japanese were entrenched through
caves and tunnels and all such. But we were hit twice by kamikazes. I
don't remember where we were on the first one but we've been bombarding
during the morning and then they opened the ship up midday, I guess, to
have some sort of food for one thing. And the people out on the decks,
you get some air because the ship didn't have a lot of ventilation when
they were buttoned up during general quarters. And my gosh, the kamikaze

came almost direct vertically and there was no -- well, not much warning.
I really don't remember whether they were firing anti-aircraft or not.
But they probably were maybe at short notice. But oh, a bunch of people
were killed and there was a big fire, of course, because of the gasoline
explosion and so on from the plane. And I remember working on it, the
fodder was badly burned and I always doubted the lift but they had them
stacked in the passage ways and all around. It was a real tough situation
and then at Okinawa at one time, we were -- and, you know, I think the
[inaudible] knows, they were beginning to get ready for an invasion of
Japan ultimately. Yeah, and they were starting to move ships and I think
the location of many ships at one time was Ulithi Lagoon. And there were
a pile of ships from all the nations. But at any rate, our executive
officer and the chaplain, and our ship had probably about 3000 people
aboard. So we had our own chaplain and they had been in the executive
officer's cabin and came out into a passage way and the exec said, "Oh, I
forgot my cigarettes," and turned around to go back in and this plane had
been coming across just above the water and you know, whacked us right in
that stern quarter and then rivets came flying through and killed the
chaplain. And I've always thought in my -- by that time, I had a
stateroom and I always thought maybe I got paint chips but I really have
no positive thought about that. But that was the -- we then went into a
floating dry dock because they were afraid that some of the shafting on
the main engines had been misaligned by this explosion of this plane, the
kamikaze plane. Went into a floating dry dock in one of the not-too-faraway, I think it was [inaudible] but anyway, it turned out that the
damage was not serious enough to have anything much more than a checkup.
And then shortly after that, came the atomic bomb and I had an
interesting time then. You know, in the old ships, they had what they
called a smoke [inaudible]. Somebody sat up on the -- way up high in the
smoke stack at the top more or less and I've forgotten exactly how the
accommodation was arranged so that there was somebody there and if the
ship started belching smoke, he was on the wire to the boiler room
saying, "Lord, there's smoking." And that was bad news, of course because
all this smoke was a telltale of where you were and where the ship was
located. Well, so now we're going to have a battle parade into Tokyo
Harbor for the signing of the armistice. And so I pulled rank and I
became the smoke watcher. There I was on the top and it was a big thrill
to me to see and there were ships of all nations, big ships, little
ships, everything else, all flying their big battle flags in a procession
coming in to Tokyo Harbor. The Mississippi was anchored about oh, I
suppose half-a-mile or maybe a mile from the Missouri and our captains
got to go over to the signing and so on. But the next day, we started for
home and stopped at Pearl Harbor and as I said, we probably had 3000 to
3500 people aboard and we picked up about 2000 more and they were in the
passage way. They were heading home. We were a transport [inaudible] and
they had cots in all the passage ways and just loaded up. And we came
through the Panama Canal and went up to Mississippi River to New Orleans
for Navy Day. And we were in company with the Ranger which was a famous
old carrier. And I think she had been the Midway but I don't remember
exactly. But we were the two biggest ships to ever get up as far as New
Orleans. And we were there six weeks, for goodness sakes but it was a
great time because it was the Navy Day, a big celebration, end of the
war. But at any rate, after the six weeks, went around Florida and so on
and up to Norfolk. And the next day, I was on the train headed for

California and home. And this would have been in '45, I guess, 1945. But
shortly thereafter, I went back to work at Fresno Irrigation District as
the junior engineer or assistant or whatever. And the chief engineer at
that time was Henry Carr who I got to know very well for many years.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Actually, if I could stop you for a moment.
>> James Sorenson: Okay.
>> Thomas Holyoke: When you first were working for Fresno Irrigation
District before the war, I guess in the late 30's, was Fresno Irrigation
District still building a lot of its infrastructure at that time?
>> James Sorenson: No. No, mainly at that time, the city of Fresno was
starting to expand at I would say Clovis and Kerman and so on and also,
as populations were starting to increase and so they were converting open
ditches to pipelines and realigning ditches some places where they had
been originally laid out to follow the contours. Now, maybe somebody
wants to build a subdivision or put a building somewhere. And so they
would realign square upon the property line to something. So there was a
lot of such activities that and as a junior engineer, I would go out and
run the levels on getting water elevations and then back in and design
the pipeline size and the alignments and then work up right of way
agreements and the various owners. So I got to work with the district
attorneys and it was a very broad sort of experience.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Were-- By and large, were most people willing to give
right of way?
>> James Sorenson: Well, oftentimes, they were involved in the
development, let's say. And most often, there would be a very -- you
know, they would only be involved in it because they were interested
somehow rather in the development, whatever it might have been or a
neighbor and whatever. But no great problem about rights of ways and
often people were happy to get the pipelines in instead of the open
ditches. So it was sort of a thing that evolved as I think it probably an
improvement if you're going to enlarge. And the district, it was to the
district's advantage to get a lot of these open ditches into pipelines
and reduce the maintenance and the like of that.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And then, as I think now, the Fresno Irrigation
District is primarily moving Kings River water?
>> James Sorenson: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's right. They do have a Friant
current allocation, a contract. And so they also divert some federal
water or San Joaquin River water which they had not used originally. But
they didn't have a contract. Originally, it was Friant but that came
about as time passed.
>> Thomas Holyoke: I actually have a question about -- you had mentioned
you had done your thesis on Madera Irrigation District. And that would
have been before there was a Friant Dam, I believe.

>> James Sorenson: Well, it was kind of along in there because when I was
in college, both Shasta and Friant and the canals were -- and I can't
tell you exactly about the canals starting but I do remember that the
dam, the Friant Dam was under construction in Shasta because I made a
trip up there to Shasta for instance. But that was all sort of right
about that time in the -- well, in the 40's after the war. And those
projects had been authorized in, I guess, during the war. I don't
remember the date of authorizations but it would have been along in
there.
>> Thomas Holyoke: What was it like seeing these gigantic dams going up?
>> James Sorenson: Well, of course, as an engineering student, I mean, we
were encouraged to look at these things. And well, it was massive
construction just as you indicated. Shasta was not the biggest one and so
on. It's massive and they were getting, you know, pouring these big
blocks of concrete and you get into the cement and actually the
composition of cement was in those years, studying or learning about that
and just construction techniques and the like were of interest and we
were encouraged to look at that sort of thing. And that is, I think, you
might say continues because I remember when some of the Edison facilities
were [inaudible] above Shaver Lake, for instance. I remember going up
there much later. Actually, the long night drive was here in this office
as far as that's concerned. But always trying to sort of keep up with
modern techniques and the like, and it was just general education
[laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: The building of Friant Dam, Shasta Dam, the whole
Central Valley Project, do you remember? Was that a popular project here
in the Fresno area? Were people enthusiastic about it? Nervous about it?
I mean ->> James Sorenson: Well, I would think -- you see, those projects were
authorized as I've said probably during World War II and immediately
after. And thinking of the way projects go to get authorized and then
following that, they get appropriations to actually build. So there are
two big events that have to occur. First the authorization you have to
get through Congress and then the clearance to release the money to do to
build. So there are these congressional actions and for years, there was
a recognition that on the east side of the San Joaquin Valley that there
was a water shortage developing. It was actually in effect, you might
say. Now, the Lindsay-Strathmore Irrigation District was in the early
major lawsuit as far as this sort of thing goes. And every place it was - there were developments that were causing people to reach out one way
or another and the federal project had been laid out in concept for quite
a long time. I used to have a map, clear back it seems to me, it was in
the late 1800's, a map that showed some canals, for instance, from clear
up in the Shasta area all the way down into the central and through the
Central Valley and so on. And of course, it never came about but the
concept was there to divert water from the north and as time passed, it
became something that had to be done or we were just going to stop and
lose a lot of land that was in production particularly on the foothills
where there was not good ground water.

>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the water crisis that led to the Central Valley
Project, was that a matter of over pumping ground water? Was that the
problem?
>> James Sorenson: Well, yes and development along the foothills where
groundwater basically was just not as reliable as further out in the
valley. And as there was an increased demand for land use and crop
development -- crop areas could be developed economically and there was a
demand and you could sell the products, people were expanding into those
areas. And there are several areas on the East Side. I used to have a
little leaflet that -- and I really am not sure at this stage what the
organization was that put it out but it was a little folding leaflet
about the East Side of San Joaquin Valley and historic water need and
decrying the fact there wasn't enough water, and here was the demand and
wells were going deeper and so on. It's been a litany that was as well as
been here since certainly the 30's, the 1930's and before that as some
people began to note this. But that was a real organized thing through
the congress and the likes of that. In the early 30's, it didn't -- just
didn't materialize totally. But the pressure was building, you might say
on the Central Valley Project itself and finally, with enough push and
the likes of that, and it was pretty much statewide. I want to say
statewide, the interest was -- of course, at that time, we weren't, there
was no concept the water was going over to the [inaudible], that it had
to be to Southern California but that came on. But Los Angeles was
already under way thinking about the Owens Valley and the Colorado River
too. And they probably -- yeah, were maybe better organized somehow or
the other. It always seems to me and I figured that even today, you don't
hear much about water rights, you know, in Southern California because
they built projects in the last several years while the northern part of
the state is arguing and continues too and it's not of one voice at all.
Whether its organization, well, it has to be. But the thing that brought
the projects into construction really California had and particularly in
Central California had about five congressmen who were really
instrumental in getting the project built and they worked together. I
think it was like Congressman Sisk and Harlan and not so much -- I
started to mention George Miller's name but that was not. But he came
along fairly well when these other more Central Valley congressmen were
going in one direction. He would finally come around. His son, not quite
so much and I noticed he's just resigned -- he's just leaving the
congress.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Right now, yes.
>> James Sorenson: That is right. And once he'd been there like four
years, I think.
>> Thomas Holyoke: He got there in the early 1970's? George Miller did, I
think?
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, so he got some right before years. But at any
rate, John McFall from up around Stockton, some -- I'd forgotten his
exact location and John Moss from Sacramento and Harlan Hagen from
Hanford and Congressman Sisk and a current county person at the moment,
who -- the name just doesn't come through. But at any rate, those five

were a block and a single mind and so things percolated pretty well
during those times. And as far as my only experience, I didn't get
involved -- I was at Fresno Irrigation District right after the war for
about three years. And I obviously didn't get very deeply involved in
anything but Fresno and Kings River. But I was getting -- going, you
might say it was the irrigation business and I know I was aware of the
Friant-Kern Canal and I guess I had been out there a time or two during
the construction but at any rate, not personally involved. But I got
involved at Orange Cove and this is a sort of a well, a personal thing.
One day, I had come home from work and got a phone call from Harvey Chase
at Orange, Orange Cove. And he wanted to know if I would be interested in
talking to the board of directors of that irrigation district about
working at Orange Cove. Now, how do you want to go at this?
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh, whatever way you feel best tells the story.
>> James Sorenson: Okay, well there was, you know, I'll get some personal
stuff and some other more broader stuff. But I was just going to mention
that he called and asked if I'd be interested in talking to them about
being the manager of their irrigation district. And then to have a
manager, an engineer or a bunch of anything at that particular
experience. They had a big battle. They had a lack of unanimity among
their growers as to what to do next. They were an irrigation district and
here was a canal that would run the district and they were desperately in
need of water but they couldn't get percolating on doing something. At
any rate, here was this call and I said, "Well yeah, I'd be interested in
talking to them." And I guess I said, "Well, when do you -- would you
like to talk?" And he said, "How about tonight?" And my wife went to some
of our long-time family friends. We lived in an area where I had more or
less grown up and said, "I think we're moving from Fresno," [laughter]
and we were, of course. But I went then to Orange Cove Irrigation
District and became the Engineer-Manager. It was about a 30,000-acre
district and the Bureau of Reclamation had built the canal through the
distr-- area and it was pretty well finished. I wouldn't know about the
[inaudible] as to whether it was necessarily finished. So I just don't
remember. But at any rate, the water arrived in Orange Cove the day I
arrived in Orange Cove. The water in the canal and it was a rather happy
time.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And this, what year was this?
>> James Sorenson: '49.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> James Sorenson: And probably in July and then they had rigged up a
pump so they could work water out onto the main street of Orange Cove
which was pretty dirty and dusty at that time. And here they were and
originally, the district hadn't been a central -- had a central park, you
might say, it was Orange Cove sort of in the middle. And then they had
annexed some land to the north and to the south and made the basic
30,000, roughly 30,000 acres. But they were not in agreement as to how to
get water to the land. Here's the canal and they had not been able to
decide where to have turnouts from the canal to get the water to the

land, you might say. And the Bureau went ahead -- reclamation went ahead,
and put turnouts in and I think there were 13 of them. But there they
were. The gates were there and all you had to do was open the gate. But
there was nothing beyond the canal. Well, and I always got along well
with the board of directors. They were good solid citizens and not
necessarily all of the exact same mind but at least were certainly
intelligent enough to know that something had to be done. So we started
in and ->> Thomas Holyoke: Actually, if I might interrupt, what were some of
their concerns?
>> James Sorenson: Okay, they had to have distribution systems of some
kind to get from these canal turnouts to the land, deliver them to the
individual ranch, farm, whatever. And there was, at that time and still
exists, federal programs where they could have on a 40-year repayment
contract, had the Bureau of Reclamation install a system for them. And
there and then some tentative estimates and some of these -- I sort of
lost some of the detail but the cost that the bureau came up with were
all in maybe like $300 an acre. And some of them said that was beyond
their ability to pay or whatever it was or not. At any rate, it was a
federal operation and there are always those who didn't want a federal
operation. The federal canal was all right. So I came on and at Fresno
Irrigation District, I had been busy forming what they call improvement
districts which were -- had bonding capacity within the irrigation
district and was governed by the irrigation district board of directors.
And I said, "Well, it seems to me a way to get at it was to lay out an
area that would be served by each of these turnouts from the Friant-Kern
Canal and see what those people wanted to do and when and what sort of a
layout they would do." Well, we started meetings and there were lots of
them. The board, we would gather these people up in these individual
areas one at a time and more or less try to fit what they said they
wanted. And at Fresno, forming improvements districts had worked for
design and layout and in financing and construction and many times, to
improve. They were called improvement districts, many times to install
pipelines instead of canals at Fresno. So I had some experience with
forming these interior districts and the like. And so we proceeded on
those lines but lots of night meetings and meetings on the ground then
with the individuals who some would say they didn't want anything to do
with it or maybe they and maybe they didn't. But anyway, I said, "Well, I
could design a facility within those improvement districts that could
move pretty fast. And otherwise, you're going to congress to get
authorizations and money and so on." And with the dire need that existed
for water, we formed -- well, then went to the individuals and had them
sign, I want this. But the thing they signed said this is what the system
would cost because I laid the system out and done a cost estimate and
after one that I didn't have enough contingency money in, we -- I
[inaudible] about contingency money [laughter] in the proposal, you might
say. And so they knew pretty well what they were getting and a lot of
cases, we used local contractors and the systems were on 10-year payout
and so it was a total difference in concept. But I had never made any
point that it was necessarily the -- it was a different concept than the
Bureau of Reclamation because in many cases, they used rubber-jointed
pipe and their construction cost represented a system that was what I

laid in front of them. I laid more or less local concrete pipe, whatever
they wanted. And some of them were open canals that we built. But maybe
for $10 an acre where the pipeline stuff, most of them were like maybe
$100 an acre. And so ultimately, we got most of the district covered. As
a matter of fact, those systems probably did very well for at least 20
years and as new techniques came along in the concrete pipe business and
they were able to -- well, in many cases, I think an eye-opener. I
haven't been [inaudible]. Well, I haven't been involved in these
improvements of the existing systems but they put in well, plastic pipes
it seems, instead of concrete pipes and so on. And so in fact, I was
talking to a manager who has been fairly recently at Orange Cove and now
was with another district but he was saying, "My gosh, they lasted twice
as long as anybody thought they were going to last. And they were cheap
enough so that -- and I had no regrets. I mean, everybody went in with
our eyes open. And there's no question. It wasn't a thick concrete pipe
with rubber joints and so on and so on. And the pumps that piled up my -bought second-hand pumps. At the time, Fresno irrig-- Fresno Ag was doing
far more farming than hardware which is, if it still exists.
>> Thomas Holyoke: It does.
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, mostly hardware as I remember. But then, I just
haven't been involved with them but they built a slow-speed motor and
pump combination, 900 RPM instead of 1500 or 1750 or some such. And I
bought a whole bunch of these second-hand items. The district had a
pickup. That was a vehicle when I arrived and I would go to Fresno and I
hauled pumps. But they were slow speed, low head and the pipeline were
designed for a maximum of say 20 feet of head above the ground rather
than 50 or some such of spun pipe with rubber joints, for instance. It
was just a different approach and I always got a kick out of those old
slow-speed pumps. They were heavy and bigger but they fit because they
were not high head. Being slow speed, they would do this 20-foot head
business, hydraulic head efficiently. And so, at any rate, we had our
share of well, this was an irrigation pipe that was locally built and
made in most cases and the same as farmers would install in their own
places. So I'd say we probably had a higher standard on this so a little
inspection and the like. But we had our share in the question of leaks
and the like that would develop. And you know, a concrete pipe, I
remember well, oh, several examples of old concrete pipes that you could
almost scratch and the cement had been hydrated out or the strengths just
wasn't there. But we got, we had far better pipe than that. That was the
early days when they hand tamped the pipe at the pipe yard before they
got mechanical tamping, you know, so they got better density to the
concrete mix. But at any rate, it was no question, a different layout but
we got it done in a couple or three years instead of having to have a
couple or three years of talking to the Bureau of Reclamation people and
nursing it in the congress and the like of that.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Was the bureau easy to deal with then?
>> James Sorenson: Not really because they wanted to build the systems
and they were -- I wouldn't say they were really aggressive at that but
they were willing to step right up. And the Orange Cove people just
weren't there as a group. And so, and we even then went and got some

legislation and what did we call those, distribution districts that could
have a federal contract. And we never used it. And so at least, we got
the water running. And it's still running and the systems were operated.
There's no question. They're better now but it was just as you stated, I
mean, it apparently worked. I mean, it was different but they didn't have
quite the amount of money because -- involved. And it was low interest.
We sold the bonds even locally. I remember one time putting together one
of these proposals and okay, we formed this district and said, "Okay, we
need to raise $100,000." And so we advertised that we were going to sell
these irrigation district warrants, we called them. But they were like a
bond. And we didn't get a bid. Not a one but we got a letter from a
broker in New Yor-- San Francisco who said, "I'm interested, not the way
you've got it set up but if you'll get the approval of the district,
secure this permission," and that was the main thing. Well, the board of
directors said, "Well yeah, let's talk to him," and I was in San
Francisco the next day talking to Stone and Youngberg. Dan Stone became a
good friend and it was a big house. It still is. No Stone or Youngbergs
left, of course but anyway, they took warrants and we sold some locally
to well, I knew of one farmer who bought warrants that amounted to the
indebtedness on his place. He was paying interest and so on. But the
system was constructed and served him and he got water. And so I always
felt -- I was there to deliver water and deliver water I was going to do
[laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: When you contracted for water with the Bureau, did
Orange Cove farmers have to deal with the land limitations? I think it
was 160 acres?
>> James Sorenson: Okay, all right, so that was beginning to show up as
an issue. And I got very deeply involved in that. I finally was the
chairman of the legislative committee and we got some relief and there's
been even more but I made many trips to Washington. One of those things,
[Inaudible] was an irrigation prof at Berkeley, a famous guy who had done
lots of water right work and all that sort of thing, particularly you
might say legislatively a lot of his stuff and water rights get into
government activities and so on. And one time, he said, "You've become a
political engineer." [Laughter] And I've enjoyed the political stuff as
time passed. Even yet, I enjoyed watching it and got very close to it. I
spent lots of time making many trips to Washington like on the
legislation of one sort or another, usually tied to Friant. I was
president of the National Water Resources Association a term or two. I
don't remember now. It was quite a long while back but I traveled to
western states and that was an organization that had 17 western states
involved in reclamation. And that had a lot of interesting angles to it.
Public power was involved because some states are strong on public power
and some aren't and California was not real strong on public power
although, Sacramento Municipal Utility District was and with that, I sort
of gotten involved with them occasionally on that issue, because we
always said that in the concept of the Central Valley Project, power was
to pay for some of the irrigation. Well, Sacramento Municipal Utility
District was big and legislatively very strong and they got their power
real cheap and I was saying, "Well, this is supposed to be paying for
agriculture, this cheap power," and so I -- and John Moss was not -- he
was, I remember going here a long time. I'm very [inaudible] with that

position in front of this committee hearing and he worked it. So if I
filed the paper, I was lucky if I didn't [inaudible]. I don't think I got
to testify for any number of reasons and you can file your paper and I'm
sure it went in the waste basket. That's a certain amount of legislative
experience I acquired the hard way [laughter]. But oh, you see, Tommy
Kuchel was California senator at that time of considerable standing and I
got to be very close with him and his assistant who did water stuff was a
lawyer in Fresno who I had known very well over the years and he was in
Washington. And I saw lots of him and Kuchel was very constructive as far
as we were concerned on [inaudible]. And I wouldn't -- it wasn't a
Republican and Democrat issue. I think we overcame most of that and I was
able to help do that because my work was with these people, got Harlan
Hagan and they were most of them Democrats and I'm not a Democrat at all
[laughter]. But you know, I went back and I never had any money to deal
with, you know, it wasn't a matter of getting contributions. I was able
to deal with these people and oh, I traveled with them a good many times
on various, you know, and they were making trips. And if they were in our
area, I would be with them for two or three days and several times, I
remember and in other states, I got to know well, I've got sort of a
picture gallery in the house in Santa Cruz of congressmen who were very
personal pictures and so on, you know. And I was part of it. I loved it.
I really did. And I lived here in Visalia and I had a suitcase packed all
the time. I knew often -- I wouldn't say often but a good many times, I'd
call my wife and say, "I've got to go. I'm leaving tonight, the red eye
[inaudible]." Oh, I've served on a bunch of federal advisory committees
over the years. I'm amazed when I -- well, like there, I was just
thinking about that the other day about some things I've almost forgotten
about and suddenly, well! Oh yeah! [Laughter]. But I was telling my sonin-law last night, we were watching some basketball and I said, "Gee, I
was [inaudible] advisory trip of some kind in Alabama one time down at
Auburn as I remembered and the university chancellor or president or
whatever he was knew we were around. I think some one of us had a contact
with him and so he sent word if we wanted. Did we want to go to this bigtime basketball game that night? And of course, I did. I think somebody
else went with him and we had great seats." But that was sort of a little
side [inaudible] event.
[Laughter]
But it sort of went with you know, getting to know these people and I
don't know if it paid off is the way you put it. But obviously if we kept
ourselves on a constructive basis with these people and oh, I remember
one time, as Congressman Sisk, he said, "Well, he was going to California
that afternoon and I guess I was headed probably the same time." And by
gosh, his secretary said, "Well, let me get a seat. I'll get you the next
adjoining seat." And by gosh, she did. I have no idea what the subject
was or whatever but I was able to do that and Congressman Sisk, of
course, was a real down-to-earth solid guy. But now, acreage limitations.
You see the Corps of Engineers, in the four projects here and you're
probably familiar. The Kaweah, the Tule, the Kern and what am I missing?
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, the Kings?

>> James Sorenson: Kings, sure, the four. All of a sudden, I get a little
erratic, you know, as time passes. I don't immediately [laughter] -well, there's another one. What is it? But no, that's right. But the
Corps and the bureau but it was mostly the bureau tried to get acreage
limitation on the Corps projects and you probably had some background on
that. And it was a big issue in the Kings, well, on all the four because
particularly the Kings and the Kern maybe more so than the Kaweah and the
Tule because they were more -- well, not to big operators basically. And
it became a big issue. Well, I was -- Governor Reagan appointed three of
us to a committee at one time and gosh, we traveled to Washington and we
did our study and so on. And at that time, it was to try to get away from
it and of course, ultimately, they did for on the Corps projects. But at
the same time, an Imperial Irrigation District was in Southern
California. It was deeply involved in the reclamation part of it, the
irrigation part. So they're separating flood control so you have the
Corps budget which are multi but at the same time, more oriented to flood
control. But the Imperial people were deathly afraid of it too. And so,
we got some moderation and there has been some more. And at one time,
Congressman Gearhart from Fresno and I really, it must have been the
30's, had some legislation going that would have taken care of -- this
was a position and there would be people who probably were different from
this position. But had a bill going with support from the east side, the
Friant-Kern people and Madera people, to literally pretty well get out of
acreage limitations. Well, Westlands suddenly came into it and swamped
it. Because they were so big and they had a lot of money. I mean, they
can toggle everybody in the San Joaquin Valley about lobbying, I think
you might say [laughter] at the federal level because they've got
[inaudible]. That's the way you get in business and do whatever you have
to do. But they swamped the bill. They killed it by just supporting it
because so many people just didn't like Standard Oil or SP or whatever it
was and so on that held big massive blocks of land that would have fit.
What ultimately would have happened, who knows? It had been wiped out.
But they wouldn't have broken up the way they have, not necessarily the
acreage limitation was the whole thing that causes these big holdings to
break up. But at any rate, that [inaudible] was way into the 30's that
they were starting on acreage limitations. Now Orange Cove didn't have
too much of a land limitations problem but they had fairly good ground
water where the bigger holdings were. So they had the power of
assessment. So in one way or another, you could get revenue out of those
areas that they were pumping so that it wasn't the typical thought of a
free ride. And I think it is the [inaudible] family of Orange Cove had to
oh, none of this thousands of acres but I mean, and I hesitate to say 200
or 300 but certainly not more than above 400. And I'm pretty sure of my
range here. And so, we were able to get along with it. But politically,
we still had to go to these meetings of about limiting the acreage
limitations. And of course, [inaudible] and gosh, I lose it -- I lose
track of these names. They used to be so familiar [laughter]. In my mind,
people who were at it all the time, you know, raising hell about big
landowners and all that sort of thing. And there is no question that
there is a middle ground there somewhere. But Imperial got themselves out
and we got some moderation and entered [inaudible] some more. And I'm not
familiar with the later years. I mean, I just got away from it. But I
chaired Western State Land Limitation Legislative Committee mainly
because of Bernie Sisk and Harlan Hagan and John Rhodes from Arizona who

was an active guy in this sort of thing. Well, it finally worked out but
and there were some -- I laughed. I can remember times when members of
the said committee is I've got to find some money because my congressman
says, "I need some money."
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh [Laughter}!
>> James Sorenson: I never ever got into that. And never ever -- oh, I
suppose I encouraged people once in a while but individually, never as a
part of any outfit I was involved with to do that. But you know, I mean,
that's just one of their things ways of life, that well, you send 10
bucks or you send 10,000 -- I mean the principle is the same. You're
hoping that your representative will think of your problem. At any rate,
I mean, it is -- that's a big subject.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah, it is.
>> James Sorenson: And it has all kinds of effects as far as that's
concerned. But Orange Cove, well, I mentioned public power. Now,
[Inaudible] District had some public power from the bureau and I don't
know the details of it at all. But Wright was in our group. They were the
only ones that was involved in a public power issue. And I got involved
in this National Water Resources Association originally called the
National Reclamation Association but they decided that reclamation was
not a very good word as recycling was coming along and all that sort of
thing. So we became the National Water Resources Association and I really
don't know what's happened to that. I guess they're still at it but after
a while, I know you've sent me kind of minutes or you know, trying to get
money or lose money out of me [laughter]. You know, they said, "Oh yeah,
we really need a lot of information from you fellows who have got this
experience." Never do you ever hear another word. But distribution
systems became -- I did, in fact, I went to a lunch yesterday involving
an old timer. He's 93. I said, "You know, you're two years behind me.
Come on, you're not such an old guy." But he'd been the president of an
irrigation district board for 50 years at least. And he finally got
turned out and just burned the middle end [inaudible]. You know how that
sort of thing goes. I've been there. I was 16 years as member of the
board of directors of an association and was pretty active and of course,
through the latter years, not as active. And all of a sudden, they say,
"Well, we've got to make a change. You've been at this long enough. But
we'll lean on you." But of course, you never ever hear another word
again. But I don't know. I laid out a system for them and then we had a
public [inaudible] where you could get federal financing for, oh
distribution systems under a somewhat different thing. You still had to
go through the Bureau of Reclamation to get your system approved and the
like. And I laid out the system for them, had an election and then it
didn't pass [laughter]. But the manager apparently was not as close to
where the people wanted to be as he thought because he said, "Yeah, yeah,
yeah." He said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we need a system and lay it out
this way." And we worked out a system but the people wouldn't buy it. And
it just wasn't close enough to them somehow and I was bad enough in the
one step away. I mean, I was less involved with the individuals than the
fellow, you know. But now -- then over the years, after the Orange Cove,
well I [inaudible] to Orange Cove. For some of the Orange Cove situation

involved some open land that a cattle guy had, 200 or 300 acres and he
was [Inaudible]. He didn't like the feds and whether he had resisted
getting added into the irrigation district or not, I really don't know. I
don't remember. But he didn't like any part of it so he probably opposed
it. But they included him. Finally, he sold off and it's a beautiful
orange grove now. I mean, this is the way life is. Sometimes, it's a
forced -- force isn't the word. It's a thing that becomes obvious to a
landowner that his neighbor or something develops a crop and maybe he -and he was, this guy was an old hand cowman. That was his business. And
he just didn't want any of this irrigation stuff. Well, [inaudible] where
is he? He's long gone, of course, and his family and everything else
because he sold out and got a lot of money for his land. And I guess
maybe died not too unhappy, put it that way. I mean, that's just the way
life is. But and here's a -- and I happened on to look the other day.
There's a clipping out of the Orange Cove -- gosh, what was it called?
Exponent, I think.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah it is. I think it says Reedley exponent here?
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, yeah. You see and that paper still exists, I
think. Yeah. But at any rate, the Los Angeles Times, oh well, I haven't
talked about -- I haven't mentioned water rates.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh yeah.
>> James Sorenson: You see now, the contract -- the Friant contract has a
criteria say that the first 800,000 acre feed of water annually from the
San Joaquin system from the Friant Dam and the likes of that, is all
class one. And above that is class two and it would be like oh, another
1.4 million acres even or some such, class two water. Anything above in
the so the plus one water and the water rate was $3 and a half-an-acre
foot. Well, this was a sort of -- not a high price but on the upper range
of what water costs were at that time. So that was another issue at
Orange Cove. Oh my God! We can't afford that! Well, I remember taking the
board members to some meetings and when they're there, oh my God, this
three-and-a-half is too much, too much, too much. And on the way home one
time, one of them was a director. He said, "I just don't want to make
these guys mad." But he said, "The string for the tomatoes I raised cost
more than the water. So don't talk to me about water costs." And so I
mean, and of course now, it's what? I really don't even know what Orange
Cove water is now but it's probably $10 to $30 an acre foot.
>> Thomas Holyoke: And when Orange Cove signed contracts with the Bureau,
were those 40-year contracts?
>> James Sorenson: Yes.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay.
>> James Sorenson: Yes and of course, the 40 years is up. And we got
Congressman Angel who became a senator and he was from Red Bluff or
Redding, I can't remember which. But it was up in the upper valley. He
had some legislation that we all thought, he thought too, would keep us
on an even keel but guys like George Miller caused some of the water to

be diverted or whatever for environmental purposes. And then the water
probably separated out some more and I frankly don't know the system at
the moment. I'm just not -- I've been away from it so long that those 40year contracts so they held. But the places, the problem was that they
still controlled the gates. So even if you said, "Well, my contract is
good." They might say, "Well, we just don't have any water today." I
mean, that was the power of the throne, I guess. But basically, the 40year contracts more or less held up. But then, of course, for the
renewals, it got totally wide open.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> James Sorenson: But at the time, three-and-a-half is a dollar-and-ahalf that applies to above the 800,000 were well, in the middle range of
whatever actually it was costing for other supplies. So there was a lot
of that bellowing along with acreage limitation which wasn't a terrible
problem at Orange Cove. But it was there technically no question to that.
Well, this article followed the delivery of water and an article in the
Los Angeles Times -- and I don't have it. I had it, I guess -- but the
Los Angeles Times was -- didn't like acreage limitation and obviously,
the water cost was too high and blah, blah, blah. Well, the really
exponent, which is a little article about somebody who was there when
they turned -- had a celebration for the water's arrival, said they
didn't see quite all the unhappiness in the people [laughter] who would
be getting the water. So this article and I just ran across it the other
day and I thought, "Well, that's sort of an interesting little sideline,"
and -- but the LA Times of course, at that time, was very conservative
and times change, my goodness.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yes.
>> James Sorenson: You know, one of the LA Times descendants of the
family has a big orange layout at Orange Cove. Booth's, and Booth's
Packing and I [inaudible] -- my wife and I were able to do a lot of
traveling. We were never fancy travelers. Just the two of us would travel
and many times without reservations. We sure as hell weren't hippies but
we were halfway between hippies [laughter]. But we did a lot of world
traveling and I always go in the grocery stores and look at the
vegetables and fruit and see where the stuff comes from. And about five
years ago, I was on a trip in the North Atlantic and I went into a store
in the Faroe Islands which are 600 miles out from Norway in the North
Atlantic and here I found Sun Maid Raisins [laughter] and so on. But at
any rate, there -- here's Booth's and Booth has passed away now but his - I guess a daughter. In fact, Keller, just a quick shot -- I set up this
office business all by myself. I was in the Bank of America Building, I
sublet from a lawyer, and I had an office about this big. Well, time
passed and I got some contracts to do some work and Keller, Dennis
Keller, came along one day just -- and I was in a critical stage. I was
behind on our deadline. Anyway, that was the beginning. So, he and I then
had a partnership and ->> Thomas Holyoke: And this -- your firm designs irrigation systems?

>> James Sorenson: Yeah and does water rights. I did a lot of water right
work, federal, state, you know, for years. Oh gosh -- it would be in
Sacramento, the [inaudible] four days a week.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Giving this -- the State Water Board?
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, yeah, and these hearings would just go on for
months and [laughter] ->> Thomas Holyoke: Do you -- do you have to deal with a lot of pre-1914
water rights?
>> James Sorenson: Oh well, the whole -- the whole gamut and, you know,
the water they get to the delta comes from major and minor streams of all
sorts. I mean Sacramento itself, in the Feather, and all the various
streams and then jillions of creeks and the like and riparian rights and
all this sort of thing. Well, you're in it just constantly. Well, could
take the -- we'll say for taking or having to allow at least for some of
those pre-1914 appropriative rights or riparian rights or whatever. Well,
right here, all these local streams, we had the same thing over the
years. But for a long time, there was a battle between the states and the
feds and when the state project was developed and in a sense, they were
not totally in opposition. But there was a competition for some of this
water as it -- it's now turned out, maybe wasn't even there [laughter].
Over [inaudible], I'd take Colorado River, now. They spent years,
tremendous lawsuits and all such -- I got into a little of the edge of
that. I got invited to the White House when they signed the Colorado
River Compact. I remember -- just I'll throw this in -- LBJ was president
and so I got invited to whatever room it was and here's this crowd and
the old-hand senator from Arizona who was able to do almost anything he
wanted ->> Thomas Holyoke: What's his name?
>> James Sorenson: What's his name?
>> Thomas Holyoke: I just ->> James Sorenson: Well, [inaudible] rights, I mean at any rate, but as
you left, you got a pen and shook the hand of LBJ and there was a
cameraman. And somehow -- and I was next to a woman from the House
Interior Committee, who I'd gotten to know quite well, and she and I
never were able to get our pictures.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh.
>> James Sorenson: And she had access, you know, I mean as a staffer,
could go to some of the people in the White House or whatever and say,
"Well, where are the --?" But I never got my picture with LBJ [laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: Oh. Did you get a pen?
>> James Sorenson: Oh yeah, I --

>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, sounds good.
>> James Sorenson: -- still got it somewhere. It's a Papermate pen, as I
remember, had "Lyndon B. Johnson," [laughter] picture or something like
that and they were passing them out by the hundreds [laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: Well, at least you got a pen.
>> James Sorenson: Well, that's right and -- but -- oh no, the Colorado
was such a terrible thing over the years. In fact, one of the -- I got to
know an assistant secretary of the interior very well, Ken Holcomb, a guy
from the Dakotas, I don't remember which one. And so, he called me one
time and said, "How about if I put you on this committee with --" it was
a guy from the bureau somewhere in the State of Washington. Anyway, the
three of us were delegated to go down on the Mexicali River and I don't
know -- I guess we were to look and see if we thought they were maybe
mistreated, because they were, no question of that. And we went down
there and gee, we got up early one morning, I remember, and went out.
There was a sign, "Yankee Go Home," [laughter]. There never was no big
demonstration thing, but we were wandering around and I'll just throw
this into that. There was no question everywhere that David had been by
whoever the U.S. reps were, said, "Okay, you can have X thousand acre
feet of water but nobody ever talked about quality and I always said,
"Sure. Yeah. We'll make a deal, and I'll guarantee it should have 1000
calories of food every morning. Fine." And you sign it and the next
morning, here comes the garbage truck [laughter] and it was salt water.
And then that's slowly been straightened but gosh, I mean there is some
of the side stuff I got involved in as time passed [laughter]. But Orange
Cove was a good case study in democracy, I guess, in trying to establish
something where you got a bunch of opinions and if they had -- if we
hadn't been able to put something together, they probably would have been
practically shooting at each other -- so mad. But as it turned out and
sure, they've had to do a lot of work and made change. Some of the height
design was by special occasions and the like but I set out to do what I
did and did for a while, at least. A lot of it's still -- I understand.
Talking to this guy yesterday, he said, "Oh yeah, a lot of it is still
just the way you left it [laughter]." Boy -- but now that was Friant-Kern
and then we got into Orange Cove. Then after things got going and water - some people wanted to get added into Orange Cove Irrigation District.
Some more guys on the south end and the basic district said, "Okay, yeah
-- but if there's a water shortage, you're going to lose out first."
Well, of course, last year it didn't make any difference, nobody got
anything anyway. And -- but as time passed, the City of Orange Cove,
which is not part of the irrigation district, it's a block and I wouldn't
know whether they've added or, you know, etcetera. But as the city grew,
I managed to get -- I negotiated a contract with the bureau for the city.
I mean I did some work for the city and one of their problems with what's
going to happen is there's no water delivery. And I said, "Well, in the
winter normally, there's no water delivered in." And I guess basically,
November and December but sometimes they've hidden behind that for while
they're doing maintenance work in the canal. You know, there's a certain
amount of annual maintenance on the Friant-Kern Canal and they've had
trouble with some of the slippage. When the canal was built, in order to
get it in operation, they didn't line some sections in order to speed up

the completion. And I really can't tell you whether there's still some
earth sections or not but they would sometimes slip in or concrete lining
would slip in once in a while, or crack, or break, or something. So,
there's maintenance always and the gates have to be painted and cleaned
and a certain amount of maintenance in the canal section itself because
there's sand and so on. They have to do that. Well, what are they going
to do for water then in Orange Cove if the wells aren't very good, which
they weren't? Well, there was an undercrossing for Park Avenue, the main
street of Orange Cove, and I worked out a thing that they'd be able to
get some water. And they apparently -- and I don't know this real-specifically or definitely -- used -- could fall back on that water that
was in that undercrossing [laughter] after the canals [inaudible]. But it
was the same way there. See, Orange Cove and Lindsay -- there seems to me
that one, the City of Fresno -- I think there are four domestic
contracts. I must admit, there might be some mention is there's one more,
maybe -- but not as a city. There're a couple of areas out in the Lindsay
area that -- Tonyville, I think is one of them and there's an area that - I've seen a lot of wells failed just very recently. And -- but they get
some [inaudible] water and domestic water. And I don't remember about the
rates, but the water costs more, considerably more, and it was an
irrigation project originally. And -- but they filled out that way and -but now, back to water rights a little bit, there were two or three
attorneys and a couple or three engineers of us who were in on these
hearings in Sacramento at -- with the state board and as I say, there was
-- well, it was two opposing sides. But on the other hand, it was more
haggling to get some kind of schedules established and standard. And of
course, then came the smell and I'd be interested in your reaction. Have
you been into the Westlands business too?
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yes, we have -- we've interviewed some people at
Westlands and I'm aware of their issues with the delta smells and the ->> James Sorenson: The Trinity River ->> Thomas Holyoke: Yeah.
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, and they're not in a very strong position on a
lot of ->> Thomas Holyoke: Well, they're sort of lowest on the water priority
list.
>> James Sorenson: That's right [laughter], that's right. And now, on
Friant-Kern, you know the Madera people and maybe I've just not been
close to Friant's since I got out of this sort of thing. They filed some
[inaudible] origin action -- I really don't know whether it necessarily
has ever been resolved. It might even be pending somehow or other yet
because they got so many other squabbles going on, it seems like, and
Keller [inaudible] sometime like -- he's pretty much up-to-date and goes
to the Friant sessions and I can't tell you about who he might
necessarily represent. But he's well-informed and is right on top of it.
In fact, did you meet him at all -- when you came in?
>> Thomas Holyoke: Yes, I did briefly.

>> James Sorenson: Yeah. Well, he and I -- I wouldn't say approached
things differently but I've been far more involved in the legislative end
of it along with the engineering. But he's closer to some of this
internal politics currently. You know, the Friant people's split was
doing this which was not a good idea. I mean no matter where you sit, it
was a bad situation.
>> Thomas Holyoke: The river restoration business?
>> James Sorenson: Yeah, yeah. And this pending stuff and all like that,
you know, and I didn't get really close to it. The news came along after
I was pretty much out of it. Then -- no, when I got off into the dairy
business a little bit, finally mingling with a Dutch family, a big
family, and they had a permit to build a reservoir right angle to a creek
up here [inaudible] 30 miles. And they built it parallel, and so the
county went after them and he was in great trouble. And I was able to put
some stuff together to show it didn't make any difference. I bailed him
out of that thing and then from then on, just did as I -- that particular
-- the father is -- passed away but they now own five dairies. I think he
set out to get -- he had six or eight kids -- and I think he set out to
have a dairy for each one. But I'm not sure necessarily it was that way
but oh, one thing after another. Our water quality -- and now, it's far
beyond anything I got involved in it. Now, it's big time but in the -- so
I -- they're good friends. They're hard workers and it's another world.
But they're good friends and usually when I come, I at least talk to them
or go out and have a cup of coffee with them.
>> Thomas Holyoke: We're going to be running out of memory on the camera
here.
>> James Sorenson: Okay.
>> Thomas Holyoke: So, anything else?
>> James Sorenson: I don't know [laughter]. I -- the legislative stuff
from a national angle is well as a local, I mean I think the stuff I did
for the award, let's say the Western States organizations was consistent
with Orange Cove. See, after a little while at Orange Cove, I was having
-- had the three-year literal experience as an engineer at Fresno, I was
licensed by that time along with the hydrography I did for a year, three
days a week. I had a pretty good base and so, a fellow -- a landowner at
Orange Cove was the farm advisor in San Joaquin County docket. So, he got
me going and I did a lot of work in San Joaquin County. They had water
problems but nothing like the shortages that record groundwater stuff
around here and getting them to do something was pretty tough. But I laid
out and got come construction underway up there and there, of course, had
gotten away from it. I finally just said, "Enough is enough," and dropped
every -- they were about the last ones I dropped. But it was another
situation up there where I dealt with each [inaudible] municipal utility
district on the Mokelumne River and -- but the same thrashing about an
area of origin and of course, San Francisco and Oakland, I mean they
don't set the area of origin business at all. They got their water and
the hell with anybody in the middle and dealing with them was a literal

liberal education too, I'll tell you. Not with San Francisco much but
with each way, Oakland's own concept. But I took a good deal of my time
for 10 or 15, or maybe 20 years. I don't know, it all fades [inaudible].
But--no, it was [inaudible] as my experience and I have a good taste in
my mouth because I enjoyed it and, you know, you often think, "Wouldn't I
-- what else would I like to have been doing?" I worked with lawyers an
awful lot and I was in court a lot and I've always enjoyed the law and I
think maybe I would like to have been -- I don't mean I necessarily -that I would have liked to have been a lawyer. But I mean, it strikes me
to it might be -- but some of these [inaudible] lawyers, I mean I've got
-- I'd want to [inaudible]. I guess we're all the same and that’s it. No,
I'm passed this -- I should -- I -- and, you know, it's my wife and I
[inaudible] a small house in Fresno when we were first married and then
when we got to Orange Cove, we built a house in Orange Cove. Then we
moved into an old house here, very old, big old house. We had five kids
and so then when they -- all but one of them went to CAL and she wanted
[inaudible] nurses, a BS in Nursing at the University of San Francisco
had one. So, pretty quick they're all gone. So, we moved again but we had
lots of property -- well, Monterey Bay and we built a -- we built two
houses, one in Santa Cruz and one on Pacific Road. It's always been -always in debt I guess, but finally got it so we weren't totally in debt,
put it that way. But -- so I live in Santa Cruz and live in a retirement
place but I've still got a couple of PIs manage three or four pieces of
property over there. I have three daughters nearby. I call them my
"Committee" [laughter], they run me or I -- I don't do things without
them pretty much as far as the properties are concerned [laughter].
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay, thank you very much.
>> James Sorenson: All right, and if you think of any questions or
whatever, holler and I'll be glad to holler back.
>> Thomas Holyoke: Okay. [Silence]

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Water Archives Set