Water Archives · Stan Barnes interview, part 2

Title

eng Stan Barnes interview, part 2

Description

eng Former chief hydrological engineer for the Boswell Corporation. Talked about developing their water systems and farming the Tulare Lake Basin.

Creator

eng Barnes, Stan

eng Gray, Glenn

Relation

eng Water Archive Oral Histories

Coverage

eng Stan Barnes residence

Date

eng 1/7/2009

Format

eng Microsoft Word 2003 document, 10 pages

Identifier

eng SCMS_waoh_00010

extracted text

>> Glenn Gray: At what time did you then leave Boswell?
>> Stan Barnes: I left in 1984.
>> Glenn Gray: 1984. So it was shortly after the act was ->> Stan Barnes: The act was -- was implemented in -- in 1982, I think. Maybe in
November of 1982. I have a copy of it in the other room.
>> Glenn Gray: And in -- I believe you mentioned that 1983 was another big flood
year.
>> Stan Barnes: Yes.
>> Glenn Gray: Any comments about that experience?
>> Stan Barnes: Well, yeah. Mother Nature provided more water than in '69. But
in '83 we had some additional tools that we implemented. And it really -- some
of it is really I think sort of incredible. But in terms of -- of a nice project
to have, in the meantime, in terms of the water supply, the California State
Water Project was implemented. I think that election was maybe November of 1960.
Not completely sure of that. But anyway, there was a state water project and it
was diverted down -- they diverted out of the delta. Separate canal from Friant.
And it goes down to -- to San Luis reservoir. That is a joint facility between
the federal and the state. And then the federal -- federal -- it was agreed that
the federal service area would cover everything up stream from Kettleman city.
So that's the Westlands Water District and a few minor districts. And then the
state projects continued on south until it got to Tupman in the south western
corner of San Joaquin valley. That's about 100 feet higher than Tulare Lake. So
there’s –- you look at it as Kern River water coming downhill. The Kern River
water, before any dams would -- had its flooding situation related to Buena
Vista Lake and those other issues are more complex. But in the meantime you had
-- if you could divert Kern River water at Tupman and let it join the water that
was coming from the delta or replace it, then go onto the south to the southern
part of the valley through Buena Vista pumping plant and through wind gap and
the Edmonson pumping plant over the hill to the southern California area. And so
there was proposed that we -- that that constructed by the Corps of Engineers,
an intertie facility at Tupman where Mother Nature provided the water level of
the flood water, would be compatible with the intake to the Buena Vista pumping
plant. We were just all there right together. And so in the 1970s, can I wait
just a minute? Why don't we just take a few minutes and I'll sip on a little
coffee and look for my date there.
>> Glenn Gray: Sure, no problem.
>> Glenn Gray: Well you were talking about the '83 flood, and just after that
was when you left Boswell, working for Boswell.
>> Stan Barnes: In the spring of '84, I did.
>> Glenn Gray: In the meantime, there's been a book written ->> Stan Barnes: Can I cover the –- can I cover one thing? I wanted to make sure
I was covering the intertie facility, which I was referring to, believe. An
intertie between Kern River and the California aqueduct. And what would happen
is that you could take Kern River water and any Kern River water that you put
into the intertie between the river and the state aqueduct would save about 300

foot of lift, of what would otherwise be required to be pumped from the delta
down to Tupman. So that would be a saving to the state project, and therefore
hopefully to the diverters of the water below that point who were getting a
lower bill for their water than they would get if they were -- the delta water.
So there was a level of acceptance, if you get better quality also. You get the
silt out of it. And so getting the silt out of it was a major factor. We had -we developed -- there's an authorization was under a thing known as the Small
Flood Control Act, and it had the -- an act that was applied to Corps of
Engineer projects, would cost, the total cost of which would be less than $2
million. When the bids came in they were for, like, 1.7 million or something
like that. So they qualified very well for that. We had a lot of acceptance from
the Kern River people and from everybody else, including the state water
project. They were glad to save the cost of pumping it from the delta. It was so
effective that in 1983 there was -- during that -- during the flood period,
there was no state project water pumped out of the delta. Initially, down to
Tupman. And there were some intervening pumping for service along the way. But
another -- let's see. I'm going to cover the cost-sharing. Somebody had to pay
the local cost share. The act provided that a certain percentage of the cost had
to be paid by a local sponsor. So we had cost sharing among local people as well
as the federal government, which is -- nobody was quarrelling with that. We were
delighted to have the facility available. But the thought, the dispute was,
okay, now who's going to pay the local costs. They were like maybe like 30% of
the initial cost. Plus the O and M cost, all the O and M cost over the years.
And so we had some disagreements on how those should be allocated locally. And
ultimately, it came down that all of the Tulare Lake interests -- not all of
them, but the Tulare Lake interests paid the local costs. And some of them
include some continuing O and M cost for operation and maintenance. The –- uh
one of the major operation and maintenance costs is the sedimentation basin, to
take the Kern River sediment, which would otherwise flow into the aqueduct,
which would not be very desirable. And so there was a -- the Corps recommended a
Corps design provided for a sedimentation basin that was so big, and we were so
sensitive to that sedimentation issue that we insisted that the size be doubled
to take about twice as long to flow through the sedimentation basin and drift
out into the sedimentation basin instead of the aqueducts. The other thing
that's about -- the 1983 flood story that we're telling, along the California
aqueduct, this entire route all the way below the San Luis dam and mile 18
pumping plant. There are a number of check structures in the canal to regulate
so the canal doesn't get too -- in times of low flow it doesn't get too low and
cause other problems. And so there were periodic check structures, including
from Kettleman City down to Tupman, three or four check stations along there.
And somebody determined that maybe we could pump water backwards up the
California aqueduct and deliver water from -- state water -- to people along the
aqueduct. The key person along that issue was a fellow named John Baker, now
retired. He was an engineer for the Boswell Company. And I don't have the
pictures here in the office, but I have wonderful pictures of 16 different pumps
in the lower stations, pump over these canals and pumping over the check
structures in the canal. And the ultimate -- after they were all in, the pumps
were all in, in a short period of time, there was no state project water coming
from -- into the aqueduct up stream from Kettleman City. That whole southern
area was clear into -- clear into Los Angeles was all served by Kern River flood
water. And in terms of something remarkable, I wasn't personally involved in
anything except the negotiation of the cost sharing among the users and stuff.
But this fellow John Baker that designed and supervised the construction of
these plants, these are pretty big plants. $100,000 per pumping plant times 16
times a few less upstream and so forth. Anyway, I think that covers -- I should
say one more. You asked about the '83 flood. The other things that happened in
'83 with the permission of the water users along the Friant Kern canal, we

diverted it into -- pumped into the Frank Kern Canal from the Kaweah River, from
the Tule River. We pumped water, which served users in the lower portion of the
Frank Kern Canal, all with the approval of the Bureau of Reclamation. And there
was a charge for using the canal and whoever else. But these are major expenses
that the Tulare Lake floodees paid to avoid having those flood waters come in.
So the difference -- the main difference between '69 and '83, there was more
water in '83, but by the time you got these effective efforts in diverting
waters from entering Tulare lake, you had a flooded area. And it was the only
flooded area was [Inaudible] quite similar. Anyway, that's -- I wanted to cover
those aspects too.
>> Glenn Gray: Yeah. Well, since this period marks the culmination of your time
working for Boswell, can you describe, then, the situation there as it was when
you left, compared to when you had first arrived. What -- how would you sort of
in a nut shell, just sort of encapsulate what it was like.
>> Stan Barnes: It was a bit of a different ball game. The changes were the
State Water Project. The water supply thing. And some difficulties with that
which still go on. The -- there were no agreements between the United States and
water users on any of these four rivers. And there were no permanent agreements
among the individual users along the river. Like the Kaweah. There is now an
agreement among all the users. And the same on the Tule and the Kern. I’d say
Glenn, during that time I didn't personally do anything, but I was a player in a
lot of different things, many of which we talked about so far.
>> Glenn Gray: Yeah. Well, more recently there's been a book written about J. G.
Boswell by Mark Arax and Rick Wartzman. “The King of California.” And you're
actually a featured player in the book. So I was -- I wanted to ask you what
your -- what your impression was of your assessment of your depiction in this
book? In addition to that, what is your assessment of the book, more generally?
>> Stan Barnes: Yeah, I'll cover the specific one first, because it's more fun.
I'm referred to in the book as one of the most peculiar -- or the most peculiar
employee of the J. G. Boswell Company. And I had to go back to my dictionary,
and when I found the third definition of peculiar I found one that I thought fit
me, but, and I think that's right. I, you know, I was -- I was comfortable not
being in a mold somebody else created for me. And I spent the latter half of my
employment time trying to figure out how to stay doing what Jim Boswell wanted
to do, without being too close to him. And I found just watching a lot of very
good men come and go from the office down there is unfortunate, I think. On the
other hand, there's no one that can do what Jim Boswell did. And maybe with -even with the times during which he did it. I don't know of anybody else. He
could -- he could make decisions, including these decisions where we're talking
about flooding land in Tulare lake from the Kings River. He could take -- make a
decision, back us up in decisions we make in a meeting with the Corps. And we'd
say –- we would prefer you not divert this for two weeks. And I'd -- Jim Boswell
would always honor those types of things. He did a lot of wonderful things. He - he did a lot of personal things for me that -- when my parents died in -- he,
without making a big deal out of it, he had it known to me that the two aircraft
were to be made available to bring my family down here for the death of my
daughter, actually. That's what that was about. But anyway, I honor and respect
the guy, and I [inaudible] like him. But I just don't think I have the
personality to -- to play the executive game with anybody, with the Bechtel
Corporation or Hetch Hetchy water supply, or the J. G. Boswell Company. Anyway,
you asked something else?

>> Glenn Gray: Yeah. Your assessment of the book generally, in addition to your
own depiction?
>> I think -- I gave it about
parts, at least half of them,
of those internal workings of
I lived down there. So it's a

a 95. 95% accurate. And most of the inaccurate
are by Jim himself, I think. He put a spin on some
the community of Corcoran that's a little hard -little hard for me to -- anyway.

>> Glenn Gray: Yeah.
>> Stan Barnes: But I -- I put a positive spin on it, and I think it – Mark Arax
was actually here twice. And the first time he was here he said -- he said to
me, he said I want you to tell me how it was you got the Corps of Engineers to
do what you wanted them to do, with the valves on –- Pine Flat Dam sort of
thing. And I said, well, Mark, I'd say, you want to write it that way you might
have a lot of fun doing it. That's not the way it happened. I said we -- we did
have input, but I said the Corps religiously operated -- I said, I'll show you.
I'll leave you a copy of these books. I gave him two or three books out of my
library there, including the operation manual and some other things. And -- and
I said, you know, just if you want to talk about anything else, you know, the
facts of the matter, I'd be happy to discuss them with you. So he -- by
arrangement he came back, brought all my books back, which happens -- does not
happen frequently. But anyway, that was -- I didn't personally meet with Mr.
Wortzman, but I did meet with Mark twice, and we had a good relationship. His
earlier book, have you seen it?
>> Glenn Gray: Yeah.
>> Stan Barnes: He autographed that for me. I'll show it to you later. It's a
kind -- it's a kind -- it's a kind thought.

>> Glenn Gray: Why don't you talk a little bit, then, about your experiences
post Boswell, what you did, what you were involved in.
>> Stan Barnes: Well, let's make it outside of Boswell, rather than post. Well,
because a lot of it occurred while I was an employee. That's why I want to cover
that. While Ronald Reagan was governor, there were two administrative bodies
that are involved in the waters that we have here. One of them just involves
waters of the central valley, and it's called the State Reclamation Board. And
they have a flood control responsibility on the streams in the San Joaquin and
the Sacramento valley. Oh, in whatever year, I'll have to go double-check my bio
here. Excuse me. In 1971 there was a death of one of the members of the State
Reclamation Board. And my employers and others suggested I might be appointed.
Governor Reagan appointed me to there. I served there for five years until we
had a change of administration. Jerry Brown came in. So I had what was termed a
Brown Out. Anyway, but I thoroughly enjoyed that. It gave me a chance to get
additional perspectives on life outside of Tulare Lake. Sort of refreshing. And
I made some wonderful personal acquaintances, one of which was Wally McCormick
who was a big buddy of mine for many years on horse matters. And so that was a
fun thing to do. And anyway, when I went off, that was the end of that. Then the
other -- the other -- the other thing I was involved in later was California
Water Commission. And I was appointed by Governor Deukmejian, one of three,
initially. And those nine appointments are made sequentially. Three the first
year and two each in the next three years. And I was pleased to serve on that
with -- with six Jerry Brown appointees. And I guess what struck me the most
about that experience was from the very beginning we were considered members of

the California Water Commission, not Republicans. And we were treated with, you
know, our thoughts were just as welcome as any of the other six. One of the most
memorable was Dan Dooley I got to know, and he was a very effective person, very
effective. Anyway, then -- I served on -- for eight years under Deukmejian and
eight more years under Pete Wilson. And then I had a Gray out. [ Laughter]
>> Glenn Gray: Well, speaking of politicians, I know that you worked with Tony
Cuelho on some of the -- these things that we've been mentioning. Do you want to
comment about anything in particular, working with him on these projects?
>> Stan Barnes: Well, I think I'd like to scope it a little bit. Let me swallow
my coffee though. Yeah. We -- the commission has a lot of responsibilities, and
I think one of the most fun to be involved with is the federal appropriation
process, which turns out to be federal and state as well. And you can imagine by
these projects and programs involve fisheries and other environmental issues,
and they involve water issues, maybe in one area of the state that don't impact
in other areas of the state, that are still very important where they do. And I
think a lot of these issues, I'll give an example, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service built a fish hatchery on Battle Creek, a tributary of the Sacramento in
the Red Bluff area. And it deteriorated over the years, and they knew that it
needed repair and replacement of certain things, water quality and others. And
they weren't able to get it appropriated. And so one of the other members of the
commission who had been on there before a long time, Claire Hill, he said this
fellow from the Fish and Wildlife would like to discuss with us this Battle
Creek, what to do about getting it up and going again. And so we met that
evening with this guy for about an hour, and he was -- anyway, when we left we
had suggested that he give us two things. One of them an overall plan for what
it needed, and number two, a scheduling of the most important things first. And
broken down into some incriminates we thought we could handle. And immediately
we established a nice working relationship with the Fish and Wildlife service
guy. Just happened just like that. And it further happened because as we would
go about our work on the federal appropriations committee we would have these
different issues, one of which, each time, would be Coleman natural fish
hatchery. And they would say we have this issue paper. It would be all on one
page. And it would have the total cost and then the cost that year, and the cost
of the items completed, and the items yet to be done. And the suggested program
for this year. And the estimated cost of that program for this one year. Usually
in the 4 to $5 million range. The total cost was 22 million, I think. And
anyway, we would then circulate these issue papers to people in California, the
Cal Fish and Game, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, California Department of
Water Resources, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation. Everybody who was involved, who
might have a comment, and to their surprise we would incorporate most of them.
And that was sort of fun to watch. That approach is so much different than the
way we go about our political business in California today, you know? Whether
we're talking about -- when you're talking about an all or nothing deal. You go
from -- you have a problem on the San Joaquin River, you're going to solve it
with your little Mr. Nunes over here, he's going to build a dam on Temperance
Flat and all is well, you know. And -- life is more complicated. Or these issues
are more complex. And when we fail to address them as total issues we're going
to fail to get them done. So I -- I'd say -- well, it started with Coleman, but
it was so true with many issues over many years. This -- Dooley was doing this
when we first got there; there was still Jerry Brown appointees. And anyway, I
think the -- it was so dramatic when you -- and so rewarding, when you walk into
somebody's office and you're not an enemy. You know? You're there with a -you're there as a -- a fellow who had been working on trying to get something
done here. We became friends with people at Bodega Bay. You know, I had never
been there before. All I knew about it was PG and E had the [inaudible] to

suggest a nuclear power plant out on the peninsula there, you know? And that was
so ridiculous, we just kind of laughed our way to the next meeting. But it was - anyway, that strip of land was -- or a strip of land -- became the Bodega
Marine Lab. And they do a lot of good things there. And they need a little money
to do it. And some of it is federal, some of it is state. I think it's an arm of
UC Davis, administratively within the state. You don't even think about it that
way. But you know, here we are, all of a sudden asking people for their comments
on this thing. And I have friendships within the California Academy of Sciences
in San Francisco all based on that. That's where I met them. And it's fun. Fun
way to be involved. It's nicer to be accepted than to be rejected when you walk
into these people's offices, you know? But anyway, those things -- one nice
feature, we had -- one of the fellows we dealt with, he was a top administrative
person. Dave Willamee [assumed spelling]. He was with me on the Senate
Appropriations Committee staff. And we had seen him. And you know, this is one
of the Stan Barnes deal. This is a committee of the commission. And it included
people like Claire Hill and Audrey Tennison and other people like that. Sort of
-- you go in, you tell your story, and then you listen and they give you some
perspectives you would respect for what they were. But when Gray Davis came in
as governor he decided that all those kinds of decisions can be made from the
governor's office and not from the Water Commission's office. So he studiously
did not appoint anybody to the commission. And ultimately, these four year terms
all terminated. And so the manager, chief engineer of the commission, Ray
Barshow kind of went sheepishly into David Willamee’s office and he says, here
we are. There's no commission. And what are we going to do. And Willamee says,
he listed these two or three projects that were in the mill. And he said just,
Ray, just be assured those will be funded to completion over the next whatever
years it takes. And he says we've been thoroughly briefed by Stan and Audrey and
Claire and others, and you, and we appreciate what you're doing and thanks for
coming in. I thought that was a pretty big compliment to our little team.
Anyway, it was fun doing it. That's the main message I'd give. It's fun being a
player.
>> Glenn Gray: Yeah.
>> Stan Barnes: One of our key contacts, let me go back there, when Tony Cuelho
was whip, we'd go visit with him. And he'd -- he'd always schedule us and honor
the schedule. And he'd come out and he'd give a little synopsis. And they were - I don't mean usually, I mean always. He would always be on target for the key
issues, always on target. And he would summarize them better than our issue
paper, you know. It was -- he was a lot of fun to work with. And he was very
effective.
>> Glenn Gray: You'd mentioned as well, Emilio Gomez [assumed spelling] with the
Corps of Engineers. Was there anything else you wanted to say about working with
him, your experiences? I'm just trying to ask you about some of the major
players that you worked with over there ->> Stan Barnes: Yeah, I think I'm happy to talk about him a little bit. He was a
-- he was a remarkable man, really. When he was on the staff of the Corps he
wouldn't let me buy him a coke, or, you know, nothing -- we sometimes would just
go buy lunch. No, not with Emilio. He'd either have no lunch or he’d pay for it
himself. But he was -- he was -- I knew him from my Bechtel days. I didn't deal
with him, exactly. But I was -- I'd go to him and others for briefings, what was
going on, what something. And I'd always get a perspective view of it, what can
be done and what can't be done. And everything was always factual and brief and
realistic. And I remember when we came down to the funding of the Kern River
California Aqueduct inter-tie there was an internal dispute among Tulare Lake

land owners as to -- it was over the issue of whether Buena Vista Lake should be
flooded first before any water came to Tulare lake. And Boswell farmed Tulare
Lake, and didn't farm -- they weren't the only ones that farmed it. Anyway, I'm
stumbling around for words. But anyway, I remember, we had a meeting of the
Tulare Lake Basin Water Storage District. And there was a dispute between the
Boswell interest and the Salyer interest as to whether or not this Buena Vista
Lake flooding thing should be involved, and if not, why the J. G. Boswell
Company shouldn't pay for all of the local costs on the inter-tie. And we talked
about some compromise formulas and so forth. And Emilio came to that meeting,
and he said as a consulting engineer, he retired from the Corps. He just said,
gentlemen, do not allow yourselves to make a very big mistake. And he'd put his
glasses up on his head and talked below them. But he said, this opportunity is
here, now. It will not occur again in the politics of America. It will not occur
again. And we -- I would say he -- he won the day. He didn't specifically give
the ultimatum formula; he said do not allow yourself to make a very big mistake.
And he was -- you know, really carried the day I thought. But he and I dealt
with one another. He was -- he stayed with that inter-tie thing to the -- until
it was done.
>> Glenn Gray: I want to ask you about James K. Abercrombie.
>> Stan Barnes: Jim Abercrombie.
>> Glenn Gray: The attorney.
>> Stan Barnes: Yeah.
>> Glenn Gray: What was your experience like with him?
>> Stan Barnes: He was on the J. G. Boswell Company board of directors for a
time. He did work for Boswell and others and he was highly respected. I'd say
his -- his take was that first of all, he was exceedingly bright and forceful
personality. He -- some attorneys are strong on the law, some are adequate on
the facts, some are good on the facts, some of them are good on interplay,
interplay among personalities. Jim Abercrombie was every one of these things.
He was -- and he was fun to deal with. We had a key meeting among attorneys on
the Kings River, which Jim was a member of it. And Tom Crow [Assumed spelling]
was. And there was a -- there was a lawyer from Lemoore Canal named Walter
Gleeson who would have been a member of this group, maybe half a dozen of them,
five or six who met in Fresno on a given day in late '63. And engineers were
excluded. We had a fellow with a certain personality that did not endear himself
to certain attorneys. And who made a -- who caused a statement to be made by at
least one attorney that this guy was included they would meet elsewhere at a
different time. It was -- but they, to not make it such a personal anti-engineer
statement they agreed that a limited number of engineers could attend or could
sit in another office in the same building and be called upon if needed. And if
needed by strong-minded attorneys means don't count on being called. But anyway,
we said -- I went, this other fellow and I did, and we took other work with us
and we -- we busied ourselves doing nothing for the time when the attorneys were
busy in this meeting. And it went on and on and on and on. And it was finally
over, and Mr. Abercrombie came -- came to me, he says I need a drink. So we
arranged to call Louis Robinson who was a director, he was the president of the
board of directors of the Tulare Lake and Water Storage District and a
remarkable man in his, in his way. About my dad's age. And always talked
quietly, except when he was mad. And then he'd get quieter. And he was -- he was
a wonderful guy. Wonderful. But anyway, Abercrombie was giving us a report on
the meeting. And there were a number of contentious issues. But one of them was

particularly contentious. And they hadn't reached agreement on it. And what
happened was that Walter Gleason from Lemoore who was another Irishman, as Tom
Crow was, he didn't like the way they -- they hadn't agreed to something he
wanted, or he was running for God, I think. But anyway, he didn't win that
election, or many others I guess when it came to voting. But anyway, the meeting
took place. And they solved everything except this one issue. And it was one
that we felt pretty strongly about, but you know, can't win everything sort of
thing. And so Jim says, well, I want to tell you fellows a little story. He said
this lady was in a hurry to get into town and she hired this man with a buggy
and told him she was in a hurry. So he was going along and so forth, and she
says, “driver, can't you make him go any faster.” He said, “lady, I'm whipping
him every place there is except his balls, and I'm saving those for the last
hill.” And so then he proceeded to tell us the rest of the story. Walter Gleason
and Tom Crow had an intense dislike for each other. And Jim proceeded to tell
that -- he says, well, I've been arguing on this issue and so forth, Tom, and I
really haven't been fair to Walter Gleason. He's not able to come today and he
asked if we would carry his views on the different matters. And he says actually
on this key issue here, he's on your side. At which point Tom Crow did a 180 and
jumped on the band wagon with everybody else, and the issue was all settled and
the job was done. So I think kindly of Jim Abercrombie for many things,
including that wonderful story.
>> Glenn Gray: Anything else that you want to say about Louis Robinson?
>> Stan Barnes: Louie Robinson. He -- he never argued trivia. He always had -always had time. If you had anything that you wanted to discuss with him, I was
a generation younger, he was about my dad's age, he would always have time and
thoughts to discuss it with you. Whether it be, can we play a golf game after,
you know, tomorrow or something. But Louis had perspective on the issues, and
time to be involved in anything that wasn't just trivial. And a wonderful
gentleman. And his wife was part of the community too.
>> Glenn Gray: Okay. Well do you have -- now that you can reflect back on this
time, is there anything that you would single out as being the most important
development or breakthrough that you've experienced in your time, good or bad.
What was the -- what was the real defining moment over the course of your
career.
>> Stan Barnes: Well, I think -- first of all, conditions dictated what we did
and where we did it. For the most part I wouldn't try to change any of those. In
a personal sense I'd say coming to the realization that my -- in my -- I don't
know, I suppose late 20s or early 30s that I could have a lot of fun doing
engineering work in the water field without being the director of so and so, or
the head of so and so. And that my make up and personality I think lend
themselves to being a pretty good team player. And if you look at it the way
I've looked at it, it's sort of fun being a player. And you can see what you
did, and you can tell how you're received when you get there. I've had calls
when I was talking to Gordon Nelson here recently. He was head of the west side
farmers thing I think it’s called and he said, oh, I told him about the little
talk we're having this morning. And he said, oh, if I can get a copy of that -I said, well, I think there will be an e-mail address for you. Oh he said, be
sure I have it. So those are -- I mean, it's not a big deal. But that's a
complement from a person of -- whose -- whose appreciation I'm glad to have.
>> Glenn Gray: Yeah.

>> Stan Barnes: And I mean, I'm now 83, next month I'll be 83. And in some areas
the people that I meet, I haven't known when I was younger and more active
physically and perhaps mentally. Certainly in terms of energy level. We weren't
afraid to work. We -- we -- if you're going to be a player, you better want to
play. And you know, when I was in high school we -- we did better if we
practiced than if we just went out and ran, you know? And those are values that
you take through life if you do them right. And you can have some fun along the
way.
>> Glenn Gray: What is your assessment of the future course of water issues here
in the Central Valley as you see it going forward?
>> Stan Barnes: Too much single to mention, thinking -- or mental processes that
substitute for thinking. And if you -- if we as a group can't put together
better programs, programs that include all of the key issues and all of the key
players, we're going to go a long time before we solve anything, by these key
problems that we have, I think.
>> Glenn Gray: And what do you think is the most important thing for future
generations to know about what you've experienced and the struggles you've gone
through with water here in the valley?
>> Stan Barnes: You don't have to be the smartest guy in the town. But if you
want to be a player, if you want to be effective for the water people to become
more effective, you must become -- include the thoughts, the considered thoughts
of others, other worthwhile people. Not every kook on the block, but thoughtful
other players. And then with respect to your own values keep them, and don't
expect any quick fixes. Persistence and continuity. Continuity and persistence,
I guess. Those would be the key things. And -- and you know, what they minimize
that takes someone like Congressman Nunes, you know he's got the answers for
everything, but it's a one-shot thing. You know, he -- to me. I'm not anti
Nunes. But I'm anti his approaches on some things. And anyway, the -- you can
have a lot of fun doing it the ways that worked for me.
>> Glenn Gray: We've gone through the questions that I've prepared. I'm
wondering is there anything that we haven't covered that you think is important
to mention? One other question I have for you is what response do you have, if
any, to an environmentalist's view on the various water projects and so forth
that go on, that have taken place and are taking place here in the area?
>> Stan Barnes: That's a -- an interesting question as phrased. I think -- I
think that just as we believed in including environmental issues, not just fish
issues, but all environmental issues in our water programs and projects, I think
that too many of the environmentalists choose to ignore the very real needs of
human beings and of industry and agriculture. And, if we don't believe in
irrigated agriculture, period, I think that's a huge mistake. And I'd say that
the recent political successes of the group on the San Joaquin River have found
a favorable judge, puts zero value on some very nice people that have their only
source of supply is from the Frank Kern Canal. They don't have any ground water
supply. And to ignore that is to -- I think is unfair and unreasonable. And I'm
not they won't continue to win in some arenas, but they won't win in the arena
of the good man upstairs, I don't believe.
>> Glenn Gray: Any last comments or thoughts?
>> Stan Barnes: Thank you for coming.

>> Glenn Gray: Okay. Thank you.
>> Stan Barnes: I've thoroughly enjoyed this morning, and I hope it hasn't been
too big a pain for those of you that had to listen.
>> Glenn Gray: Not at all. No, it's been very interesting. And we thank you very
much for taking the time.

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Water Archives Set