Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute Collection

Joseph Lima Interview

Lima, Joseph

Borges, Diniz

ENG

Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute

3/6/2022

SCUAD_pbbi_00060

Diniz Borges: Good evening, everyone and welcome to another
presentation of the Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute. That's PBBI
from California State University, Fresno and this is part of our
Portuguese Immigrant Week in California series. We are very excited
about this evening's event as we are going to talk to an author about
a book that he published and about the Portuguese American experience
in the California and beyond. So again, once again on behalf of the
Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute and the California Portuguese
American Coalition as well as of course our sponsors FLAD, Luso
American Development Foundation and the government of the Azores, we
want to welcome each and every one of you and we want to welcome the
author. We will be talking about the book that you just saw the slide
and I have actually the copy right here, which is by Joseph Miranda
Lima and the title is called Thanks America an Immigrant's Journey.
And I should say, a Portuguese American immigrant uh from the
beautiful islands of the Azores and from the beautiful island of
Graciosa, if I'm not mistaken. If I'm mistaken, he'll tell me, but I
don't think so.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Uh that's correct.
Diniz Borges: That’s correct, good. Joseph, thank you so much for
taking the time to be with us this evening.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Well, thank you Dennis, thank you for inviting me
to discuss my book. I appreciate that very much, especially in this
special week.
Diniz Borges: Yes, I, I thought this was the perfect week to talk about
your book. We can't do anything in person at Fresno State yet. But
next semester we’ll be able to and hopefully you'll be able to come
down and we'll do an in-person event, but for now this week is a
special week. It's Portuguese Immigrant Week in California. Um it's
been 55 years since the first time that it was declared by then
Governor Ronald Reagan who became one of our presidents and every
single governor, every single governor from both political parties
have declared the second week of, of March as Portuguese Immigrant
Week in California. So, let us dive into the book and uh, I've been
reading it and I've enjoyed it very much and um, and you basically,
uh, the book is, is your story and uh, with, with lots of different
details which are very enlightening and so tell me first and foremost
what, what incited you, what drove you to, to write it?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Excellent question. You know, um I haven't, I had
an interesting life, as I explained that in the book and family
members um and friends asked many times, what are you doing, what are
you doing here or there, what are you doing in Russia? What are you
doing in Iran? Those kind of questions. Even my daughter who was born
much later after I have done most a lot of the traveling and she would

ask me that. What you do here, what you do there? And so, eight years
ago, about eight years ago I decided the way I have a story to tell
and I'm gonna tell them. I'm gonna write about it. I was fortunate
that my wife from is from Connecticut, and we were spending a lot of
time in Connecticut, and I was bored. So, I got started writing the
book and that's how we started it.
Diniz Borges: And so, but nothing against Connecticut. Thank God it was
boring in Connecticut or else you wouldn't have had the book. So, I'm
grateful that that you were a bit bored there. Um and so are most of
your readers. So, you started writing the book and, and how, how long
of a process was this? How long did it take you to write this? Did you
write every day? Every week? How, how is this process? Tell us a
little bit about that?
Joseph Miranda Lima: That is a very good question also. I started I got
on the computer, and I did not have, you know in Connecticut, I did
not have any notes or anything. I didn't have my diaries which I had
somewhere in California. So, I just started writing, I did not think
about how the book was gonna be laid out or anything. I just started
writing from the time that I grew up, was born and grew up in the
Azores to, you know, to the present. So, um I started about oh I think
it was about eight years ago and I finished two years ago. I finished
at the end of 2019. And fortunately, the COVID kind of, you know, fold
up my schedule, but it took me about four or five years to do it. I
like to mention also I had no professional help, and I didn't want
professional help actually. You know I wanted to do it on my own
myself. And that's exactly what I did. You can see when you look at
the book that, you know, there's some things in there that could have
been done slightly better than what they are. But I wanted to write my
way.
Diniz Borges: Right indeed, and I'm glad you did. That's what makes it
personal. And so, um you, you you, you start the book of course, you
know you explain uh and that's wonderful. You explain a little bit
about the Azores. You even have a map of the Azores, because sometimes
you mentioned the Azores to people and not everybody's from Central
California. But you know people, you have a map about the Azores. You
talk a little bit about the Azores. You talk about your native you
native island of Graciosa. Um why did you think it was important to
talk a little bit and to show some maps about the Azores and
everything? What, what drove you to do that?
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know again, my daughter was born actually,
she was born in Chile, but she grew up in California. Um and I had in
mind my friends, you know American people, you know, the, I this is
written for the family, friends, both Portuguese and American friends
so a lot of them, as you mentioned they had no idea where the Azores
were. So, I needed to put that information down, a little information

about the Azores and some information about Graciosa and I, I wanted
to get in some detail growing up in the Azores and I hope I did.
Diniz Borges: That you did, you did, and you talk a little bit about
your, you know, a little bit about your life in Graciosa actually um
you described the donkeys, you know, and you describe you know some of
the daily things and you even have a picture of your fourth-grade
diploma which many probably in the Portuguese American community know.
Some do, some don't, but at that time that was the required education.
You did not have to go actually you know the other education costed
money, you know there was money, there was involvement in what would
be, what we would call today high School. So, in Portugal at the time
that you and I were raised up which is about the same time um we were
by the age of 10 or 11, it depends when you started school, you were
done with the schooling for all of your life. And um and so uh this
was this, this was interesting, you talk about your, your schoolmates,
you talk about some of the uh some stories that that that happened to
them and, and you kind of associate those stories then um with things
that happen in today, you know uh you and I and I like that a little
bit of sometimes going forward and going back to associating those
stories with it. But then I was fascinated with the story about coming
to America because you know um, I could relate to it. So, you know I
think all who left Portugal or even if it wasn't those who following
us, it wasn't them, but their parents probably told them stories. Um
and how was that experience? Tell us a little bit I mean I read it but
tell us a little bit about that experience about I believe your dad
came first if I'm not mistaken and?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Uh correct. You know as you mentioned, yes, when I
was 11 years old, I was done with school. So, what do you do when the
Azores and when you're done with school, you go to work at those days.
Today may be different, in those days there's not much to do. We could
not, my dad could not afford to send me to Terceira, I would have had
to go to Terceira to continue my education. He could not afford it.
So, I went to work, first I started helping him and then I got a job
with a in a fish, tuna cannery to be more specific. And the owner of
that tuna uh factory was actually from Terceira, Steven Barcellos. Um
and so I worked there for three years, just about three years and then
before coming to the West. Um my dad realized with seven kids that
there was no life for us in the Azores. And so, he decided to continue
west. He was lucky in some ways, some ways I'd explained that is you
know in the book. Um and he came six months early. And where did he
end up? He ended up in Santa Clara because we had a friend, we had a
friend, a friend of a friend who lived in Santa Clara. So, he stayed
with him for almost six months working in Santa Clara, Santa Clara
Valley picking, you know, fruit. So, in those days and the Silicon
Valley was formed mostly farming anyway so we came here. My mom then
followed up in December 1960 with all the kids, seven of us, the

youngest one was two years old, the oldest one, my brother Manuel was
17 and so she had a, you know, quite a job. Fortunately, I'm just
gonna mention it quick. Fortunately, we had an uncle, I, I had an
uncle, my grandmother's brother, a grand uncle who was on the same
flight and his wife spoke English. So, we were able to, you know, to
get through the US Customs uh somewhat, somewhat easily.
Diniz Borges: Indeed. Um Going back to Terceira and I mean going back
to, to, to, to the islands in this case of course not Terceira, but to
uh to Graciosa, uh you explain something that I think the younger
generations would probably enjoy reading this part, which is, I mean
they'll enjoy the book, but they'll enjoy when you talk about the cows
and the cows have names. I mean when you have 522 cows it's hard to
have 522 names or nowadays, no, and nobody even has 522 cows a dairy
has to have 1500 cows or more or you can't survive. But something that
probably Portuguese Americans of second or third generation don't know
is that in the Azores, especially in the 1950s and ‘60s and even some
parts of the ‘70s, um, most people had just very few cows. Most people
had four or five cows and they all had names. They were kind of a
member of the family, weren't they?
Joseph Miranda Lima: That's right. Exactly. They were members of the
family. You know you walked around the cows; you talk to them, you
petted them and generally, you know, on the book, I explained most
cows are, you know, they they're okay. One cow did not like me very
much. And so that's part of that was part of that experience. But
you're right. There was names for the animals. And because they were
part of the family. Yeah.
Diniz Borges: They not only produced milk, but they also were the ones
that worked the farmland. That's exactly right. The two cows primarily
that my dad had and one of the cows, the older cow was exactly my age,
and those cows were used for milk, which I talked about. They're also,
and for the, for, for the work as an oxen in the fields and
unbelievable all they can be trained, you know, a lot of Portuguese
know that, but a lot of people do not know that they can be trained
fairly well and they again, it was like a member of the family.
Diniz Borges: And so, one of the stories, that was one of the different
events that happened on your way on your journey to America was the
plain food. You didn't care much for the stuff that might have been
prime rib. It might have been something else but explain to us what,
what kind of feeling did you have when you looked at that meat because
it wasn't it wasn't a carne assada or an alcatra or anything like
that.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Yeah, it was quite an experience. And one of those
experiences you don't forget, you know, it was at that those days, you

know, the airlines were you know, they really, they really took care
of the passengers,
Diniz Borges: Sure, they gave you good food haha.
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know, the waitresses, the attendants at the
doors, you walked in there, everything is nice. We had even the dishes
were actually porcelain dishes. Anyway, so they bring the food out and
I look at this you know, there was a few vegetables on the side, you
know, it was a bun, some bread and then a steak in the center. I
looked at the steak and it was so red it's not the way that I was used
to it, you know it was red and I looked at it and, and you know I
mentioned in there, a lot of people said that US people and the
airlines, they use horsemeat and I thought jeez, my brother was
sitting next to me, and I said this looks like horse meat to me. You
know, it's red you know, so I set it aside. I did not touch the meat.
No, it was, most of the people thought it was a great steak, but not
for Manuel and I, we didn't think it was that good. So, we ate the
bread, the butter and the vegetables and we left the meat out. You
know it's just one of those experiences. That was the first experience
about American food, not a good one.
Diniz Borges: And so, you came to America. Um, you then you originally,
I believe you, uh, memory serves me correctly, you graduated from
Turlock high school, was it?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Yes, yes, I, I first went to, when we came here, I
mentioned in the book, we were very fortunate. Gallo, my dad, by the
time we got here, my dad was already working for Gallo in Livingston
Gallo Vinas, they were, and they gave us a house so free, for free.
So, we had a house in the middle of the fields when we came in when we
came here. And, and so there was in December. Right, it was cold,
foggy frost in the morning. So that in itself was quite an experience
for somebody coming from the Azores. I've never seen frost. I've never
seen, we saw from we could see the top of Pico, there was you know
snow up there. So, when I started in grammar school, Livingston
Grammar School, and I talked about that, also I had very good people
who kept me in school. My mom also said you got to get educated. I
could have gone to work even though I was 14 years old. I could have
gone to work. There was a lot of kids at Gallo especially Mexican
Americans working that were younger than I was. But again, between
those people that helped me and my mom I went to school and then when
I finished eighth grade then I went to Livingston High School for one
year and it was kind of the beginning. Three years later we moved to
Turlock, from Livingston to Turlock. My dad got a job in Turlock. We
moved to Turlock I went to Turlock high school. And yes, I graduated
from Turlock high school.

Diniz Borges: And you are a product as many of us many and still are
of, of one great what I consider one great also um California and
American institution which is the community college that gives
opportunities for people to continue and then to build on. You went to
uh I believe uh Merced, Modesto, Modesto Junior College, MJC, right.
You went to Modesto Junior College. You graduated with your Associate
of Arts. And so, um so right from high school was there always the
idea of going to college was always in your mind and your parents?
Joseph Miranda Lima: It wasn't my parents it was in my mind, but there
were some obstacles along the way, and I talked about it you know
again there's some you know I had a very I had an excellent high
school experience uh you know it's in the book the things that I did,
the things that are associated with. But I had also you know some
people, one of my advisors, my advisor in high school when I mentioned
I wanted to go to college, he said “Why? You know there's all these
Portuguese businesses out here. Dairy.” He you know he knew the dairy.
He said why don't you go out and work in the dairy business, you know
you can be a salesperson, you can be this and I did not go by his
advice. I did not go by; you know his name. Well, I'm not gonna
mention his name but he was a good person. He just thought that
Portuguese from the Azores three years or four years in the country
should go to work, not go to you know to university, to college. And
so, I did not go by his advice and, and then I ended up going to
Modesto Junior College which is not [sic] a great experience
especially with some of the teachers, the teachers of Modesto Junior
college in the Ag, everywhere in all the departments, but especially
the Ag department was probably the best group of teachers in
California. When I went to Cal poly after MJC, they always said you
came from the best junior college in California again in the Ag
program. So, I got a great you know education in junior college, in
high school and junior college.
Diniz Borges: And that's uh that's so interesting that you had that
experience. I thought I was the only one although I know, I know one
other person, a friend of mine who had that experience. When I was in
high school the same thing. When I was in high school I uh you know
the, the, the at that time I believe was the end of the freshman year
now I think it's actually a sophomore year but that time the high
school I was going to it was the end of the freshman year and that I
had met with a counselor and he and it was a gentleman and he asked me
what I you know what I thought you know what I wanted to be and I said
you know I've always wanted to be a teacher when I was in Portugal and
I came over I was 10 and I you know, and he said well you're
Portuguese, aren't you? And I said yes, I am and he said you know you,
you could present yourself way well I think you could be an excellent
hay salesman. I think you really, so I think we had we probably had
the same kind of, it wasn't Turlock but it's interesting how, how

people just you know sometimes not out of meanness not you know but
just you know hey you're Portuguese you people just don't go to
college. You know that was kind of the idea you know.
Joseph Miranda Lima: He was a great person who was a constant you know
again but he gave me that advice which…
Diniz Borges: You didn't take it.
Joseph Miranda Lima: I ignored it. I…
Diniz Borges: And so, from, from, from, from Modesto you went to Cal
Poly. Uh and that's, that’s a big change because first of all your
family's all in Turlock, Cal Poly is what you know 2.5, 3 hours away.
Um It's a big move uh Portuguese families didn't like to see their,
their, their not just their, their daughters but their sons, they
didn't like to see their sons go away to college, you know or go away
basically move, they may never come back, and they like to keep you in
the same kind of wing. So how did the family react to that and tell us
a little bit about your, your Cal poly experience?
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know that's absolutely right you know um when
I finished in JC, Modesto Junior College um you know I applied and was
accepted at Cal Poly. By the way. I just want to mention this uh my
advisor, my counselor at MJC was Dr. Hodges, Stan Hodges. He still
lives in Modesto. He was the president later on of Modesto Community
College until about 5, 5 years ago he was still there. Um and he was
my advisor, he was my counselor. And when I was trying to go to you
know to the four years university, I didn't know what to do. So, I
went to him I said, “What do you think I should do?” He gave me three
choices. He said listen you can go to Chico State, Fresno State or Cal
Poly. And he gave me you know pluses or minuses about those. And, and
I said well maybe Chico State is in the Valley you know and because I
thought they had a pretty good program and then he said but I'm gonna
tell you something if you can go to the best school, go to the best
school. And he thought the best school was Cal Poly, even though he
himself was a graduate of Chico State, then he's got a PhD later on
somewhere else. But he you know, so I ended up you know going to Cal
Poly. You know when I told my parents about that, especially my
mother, they were very emotional. The day that I left you know to go
exactly the day that I left Turlock to go to Cal Poly, it was a very
emotional experience uh between my parents and I and even my, my
siblings because of exactly that. My mom knew that I would probably
never live there again permanently. You know, I came back in the
summers to work, and you know, some holidays, but I never lived again
in Turlock permanently because from Cal Poly, then I ended up going to
Bakersfield.

Diniz Borges: Okay. And so, tell us a little bit about and without, of
course we're not gonna go over the entire book because the, the idea
is for people to purchase it and buy the book. Um but you indeed after
school, um, you indeed had a career um that took you to many, many
different parts of the world. And uh and with lots of different rich
experiences that, which you detail, you chronicle it very well. You
know, with the uh, with some of the things that you did all the way,
you know from Saudi Arabia to other parts of the of the world, some,
some parts very exotic. You know most people don't go to Saudi Arabia
or most people don't go to certain countries that you've, that you've
gone. Um, what, first of all, what took you to those countries and
what was that experience like
Joseph Miranda Lima: Superior Farming Company you know, from Cal Poly I
went to Superior Farming Company in Bakersfield. Superior Farming
Company was owned by Superior Oil Company. It was a company out of
Texas, but with a lot of oil business in California, in Taft,
California, you know west of Bakersfield.
Diniz Borges: Sure.
Joseph Miranda Lima: And so, they bought these properties, the owners,
the two owners you know, Howard Keck and Bill Keck really wanted to go
back to their roots, which was agriculture in Texas. So, they bought
this huge company in Bakersfield, you know, they put it together that
ended up having 40,000 acres of land. This is all irrigated land.
We're not talking about pastures or, or you know, this is all
irrigated land, you know, north, mostly north of Bakersfield but with
some south of Bakersfield, Coachella Valley and even Fresno. We had
about 1000 acres in Fresno. Anyway, they also were pioneers, pioneers
in drip irrigation, especially in drip irrigation. And so, I came in
at Cal Poly in the ag engineering was in soils and machinery. I could
have gone either way. So I went to soils, I worked for Superior
Farming Company. Well, I found my niche there. I mean, I really
enjoyed, loved to work for Superior and they also realized that, you
know, that I had some potential. So, two years later or three years
later, yeah, three years later, um before that I had an experience, I
think I talked in the book you know, I had some Iranians that came to
Bakersfield for three months to learn about agriculture and irrigation
and I was in charge of them, you know, for three months. And that was
an experience here again, they have to read the book, they're quite an
experience and uh and so then when they got went back and we designed
3, 4 systems actually for Iran, you know they gave us all the
information, we put the designs together and then when they came to
build the systems they, you know the Iranian Ministry of Agriculture,
the people said wait a minute, we can't do this by ourselves, we need
some help. So Superior Farming Company, my supervisor came to me and
said listen you want to go Iran? You know and here I am, I mean I had
only been in the United States for a few years, and I thought gee, so

I took the opportunity, so I went to Iran for one year and uh and then
from there I went to a lot of other places around the world. Correct.
Diniz Borges: And all of course because of your field of agriculture.
Joseph Miranda Lima: That's correct field of agriculture, but also,
I'll tell you it had to be with my background. You know, Henry Chavez
who was the Vice President of Superior Farming Company um Mexican
background, but he said if there's anybody in this company that can do
it's you. So, he said because of you know and I have an accent, I
still have an accent and so you know he said you can adapt very well
to you know to these other societies, cultures, that's why we're gonna
send you there and so I started from there.
Diniz Borges: Indeed and of course from there he went to different
parts of the world and that is probably and I'm still I haven't
finished the book. I'm still, I think that, um I think that's, that's
one of the fascinating parts about it is that you detail uh you know
different passages of different things that happened to you that make
it interesting in different parts of the world. Uh and some of them,
you know, most of it interesting obviously, but, but how, how I mean
it must not have been an easy task to uh like you said, you know you
had been here in this country not that long, it's not like you were
born and raised here. Um and then, the, you know, a few years after
being working for the company in Bakersfield to go to Iran. I mean
how, how was that experience of being in a total different because
it's although you were used to coming from a different country but
it's a total different experience in coming from, I'm sure?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Absolutely, you know it was well it was kind of a
shock to the system. But again, I adapted well. I tell my wife now
that no way in the world could have gone to Iran if she was with me,
she could not have lived there. I lived there very simple um with the
basic things that I talked about in the book again. It's the only time
that I actually smoked was when I was in Iran because I was
thoroughly, thoroughly bored when I was not doing something and
traveling throughout the country. I traveled throughout Iran for all
these projects that we had in different places and so it was a heck of
an experience. One thing that I did, you know, some people who made
traveling and almost got me in trouble, I talked about in the book, I
always carried a camera with me, and I had a really nice 35-millimeter
camera, I took pictures everywhere I went and so I kind of, you know,
fell in with the country. Um, I knew that some things that you're not
supposed to do, I was you know, caution I had, I like to mention also
Superior Farming Company had no other than the oil business and
nothing overseas, this was the first time. So, I had no training
before going to Iran, absolutely none. I picked up a book, you know to
learn a little about Iran on the way and uh, and so that's, I'd like
to mention also the experience of going there and again people have to

read the book, because I took that as an opportunity uh, to stop in
Portugal. So, on the way to Iran, I stopped in Lisbon. What was
happening in 1976 in Portugal after the revolution it was a mess, and
it was nothing what I expected to see but I was there for about a
week.
Diniz Borges: Was that your first time?
Joseph Miranda Lima: That was the first time.
Diniz Borges: In Lisbon?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Exactly. First time after. Yeah, it was the first
time in Lisbon, right. And that was the first time going back to
Portugal after going to come into the United States. So, I had quite
an experience, experience there, I talked about it. I went to Italy, I
had quite an experience in Italy for three days and then, but I wanted
that opportunity at least to see Europe, see Portugal and Europe
before going to Iran.
Diniz Borges: Now you, you, you lived in many of these places, many
places you visited, you know short term you know others a little bit
longer term, you spent quite a bit of time in Italy.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Yes, well Iran again was the first time and that
was the beginning um after that it's Superior Farming Company again
was not only involved in irrigation, but they were also pioneers in
new varieties of grapes and stone fruit. And interesting enough it's
not there now, but our nursery, Superior Farming Company nursery was
on Church Street in Fresno or Church Avenue I think, Church Avenue in
Fresno and they developed a lot of varieties patented and then
trademarked varieties of grapes and stone fruit. The big grape was at
that time the best white, you know green grape, you know other than
Thompson, but it was the best grape called Superior Seedless it's
still in the market today. Most of the grapes you see in the markets
today are Superior Seedless, they don't call them you know anymore.
But anyway, so with all these varieties there was somebody nearly,
they wanted our varieties, they want to propagate the varieties they
wanted to sell them in nearly to the farmers in Italy and not only in
Italy but North Africa, Middle East and mostly North Africa, Middle
East and Europe. And so, they sent me over there to work with this
Italian company to do to do that. And because of that I traveled lived
in Italy for about three years. By this time, I was married. So, my
wife and I went there and uh and I traveled quite a bit throughout
North Africa, the Middle East. Um you know while you know while my
wife most of the time some of the times, she traveled but sometimes
she stayed in Italy, but she created also uh some friends, American
friends that lived there and some Italian friends. So, we had a great
experience in Italy and then after that, since you mentioned up early
then we came back to the US, actually, the Italian experience. Well,

I'm just going to mention very briefly the owners of Superior Farming
Company changed, they changed from Superior Oil as I mentioned early
to Mobil Oil. Mobil bought the company then Mobil did nothing, want,
wanted nothing to do with the farming company. So, they sold it, they
sold to a bunch of investors that are in New York. Well, these
investors that are in New York did not like what they saw in Italy
mostly our partners in Italy, so there was a feud between the two and
uh we came back and, and of course that experience, well after I came
back then I, we went to Chile. I went to Chile for two years and
that's when our daughter was born in Chile. Santiago, Chile.
Diniz Borges: Yeah, indeed, I thought that was quite interesting, so
she was born in Chile, but she and you explained that in the book but
she, because both of you were American, she is not a Chilean, she was
not a Chilean citizen automatically, correct?
Joseph Miranda Lima: That’s correct. You know it's interesting because
our people don't think about that. Chilean law to begin with, we were
not residents, we were actually residents of Italy, I could have
gotten my passport in Italy. I didn't, but we were residents in Italy.
We were not residents in in Chile. We were actually, I was actually a
tourist in Chile. Because of that, we had to leave Chile every three
months, but she was born in Santiago, Chile and the Chile even though
you're born in Chile doesn't mean you became an automatic Chilean
citizen. And what it meant was that she could apply to become a
Chilean citizen once she turned 18 which she did when she turned 20
and she is now she, she is American, Portuguese and Chilean.
Diniz Borges: Right and, and the, the Portuguese was a was an endeavor
from what I remember from the reading, and it only happened because of
something that that happened in the 1960s and ‘70s with a lot of us
myself included which is name changes. Explain that a little bit to us
because I think that that's fascinating and sometimes people don't
understand people say and they asked me all the time why did you
change your name? Even my kids asked me that. It was it wasn't kind of
a choice, it was just done for me but, but it was a different world
back then. But um I know that she wanted to become, and she is now uh
from my reading a Portuguese citizen. But it was, it wasn't as easy as
becoming a Chilean citizen.
Joseph Miranda Lima: That's right, that's right, that's you know, and
it was kind of a shock to me that it was a little difficult. Well to
go back to that, we became, I became a naturalized American citizen in
1964 and at that time and I don't know about today but at that time
they didn't really care about anything. But you want to become an
American citizen, okay give me you know show me your name what name
you want to have on as a natural American citizen. Actually, my mom
chose the name. Why not become Joseph because she knew a Portuguese
American named Joseph, so I said fine become Joseph. So, my name

changed from Jose Miranda Lima to Joseph Miranda Lima. No problem, all
the way through. Always known as Joe. Most of the time in school I was
known as Joe. But my official name is Joseph Miranda Lima. And uh and
so when she applied you know she applied for the actually she applied
at the same time for both. She got her Chilean within a month or two
months the most. She got her Chilean citizenship fairly easy. When
they became, when they got to the Portuguese became a problem, big
problem and the biggest problem was there was a couple actually was a
birth certificate. I like to mention that the birth certificate is one
of them, because she was born in Chile. She had the Chilean birth
certificate, and she had the American birth, birth certificate by the
State Department U.S. State Department. We made sure she we went to
State Depart for the Consulate office in Santiago to get make sure
that she got a birth certificate in English. So, we took that to the
Portuguese Consulate in San Francisco. They looked at it and said
sorry we cannot accept that we need something from Santiago, Chile. We
need to have the Portuguese Embassy in Santiago Chile stamp your birth
certificate, her birth certificate and we thought well heck, so she
happened that, it so happened that she wanted to go. Well, spotted the
thing there. She took a trip to South America for one year. She
backpacked throughout South America for one year with her then later
to be husband. And so, she stopped in Santiago, and we took that as a
huge opportunity to go to Santiago and show her Santiago where she was
born. In a little, you know about the Santiago. So, we went to the
Portuguese Consulate or yeah, Counsulate in Santiago. There was a
lady, I forgot the name. She was excellent. She said, “I don’t know
why they're asking for this stuff.” But she went ahead and stamped the
birth certificate. We came to the west. Everything seemed like it was
great until they look at the names you know my Portuguese name’s Jose
Miranda Lima and my naturalized American Joseph Miranda Lima. I said
wait a minute, this is not good, we cannot accept this. And they said,
well you're gonna have to tell us how you went from Jose Miranda Lima
to Joseph Miranda Lima, and I was, I didn't have any answers. So, when
I went to Graciosa, to the Azores, I went to the Funchais Vila, I
think it was there. I told him my problem and they said listen; we
cannot do anything about that. But you go to your village to the
mayor. I forgot what you know the village and I when he said that I
said great because the mayor was actually the son of my cousin. So, I
went there, he said, oh yeah, we can do that. We write you a letter
saying that Jose Miranda Lima and Joseph Miranda Lima is the same
person, and he did that, he stamped it, came to the U.S., gave it to
Tamara, to our daughter. She took it there and finally they did, but
even that was difficult because they sent it to Lisbon and took about
three or four months before they finally authorized it. It was a it
was an experience.
Diniz Borges: Yes, indeed. The Portuguese bureaucracy at its best.

Joseph Miranda Lima: It was at that time anyway.
Diniz Borges: It still is, my friend, I can tell you that. Um and so um
we're not gonna take too much of your time. I said, says, you know,
somewhere around 45 minutes or so and I know that, but at the end when
you when you finished writing the book, how pleased were you with it?
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know, it's a good question. I was, I actually
came to, you know, all of a sudden, I said okay, I think I'm finished
writing it and I did have something at the end, at the end of the
book, I wanted to say something about my family, because all of my
grandfathers and my great grandfathers came to California.
Diniz Borges: Yeah, you have that wonderful explanation at the end.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Right. [simultaneous talking] and they all went
back to Graciosa or the Azores, and but I, I wanted to give a little
explanation about that because especially my mother's grandfather, I
mean my mother's father, my maternal grandfather, he worked in Santa
Cruz California where today is University of California, Santa Cruz.
The same grounds and so I talked about his experience some of his
experience there and, and that, you know information. So yes. Um so
yeah, thank you. Yes, I, something that I wanted to do with the end.
So, all of a sudden then I finished pretty much at the end at that
time and then I just added that portion at the end of the book.
Diniz Borges: Right and then of course you uh one of the things that
that that you talk, you know, you talk about a lot about, about your
travel experience, but you, you, also dive into some very personal
issues, you know, with health and everything else and how important
was it to, to, to, to, to, to talk about and how hard was it to talk
about those personal experiences?
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know, something in my mind as I wrote the
book, I was not really writing for me I was writing for somebody down
the, you know the pipeline you know, whether it be my daughter, uh she
doesn't have any kids but maybe some future grandkids or whatever. So,
I wanted some information about, you know, my wife and I you know,
yeah, I did talk about my health um at that time and still some of the
same issues. I still have some of those issues today. I talked about
of course my moving from Bakersfield to Modesto. I worked for Modesto
Irrigation District. It was, you know it's a great, I worked for two
organizations, the Superior Farming Company and the Modesto Irrigation
District and then I retired from Modesto Irrigation District. I talked
about that. Um, and so I'm not gonna do go into the detail again, as
you said, if people are interesting more, you know, to read to know
more about it is uh pick up the book. Are you gone?
Diniz Borges: No, I'm here. I just showed, I'm just showing just
showing the things that folks can get, folks can get it directly on

Amazon. It's called Thanks America: An Immigrant's Journey. Um, and
you have it there, those of you who don't do paper, paper issue. They
also have a Kindle many, many people read now electronically. And so,
it has a Kindle edition as well. Uh, just to give people an idea if
they'd like to, to to acquire. Sometimes people say well you talk
about books, but you never tell us how to get the book. So, here's one
aspect that we can get it and hopefully um in the near future when we
are back to in person events at Fresno state, we can have Joseph down
and we can have him uh, present and with some books for people to buy
and for you to autograph.
Joseph Miranda Lima: And just like a couple of things about that. Yes,
thank you very much. I, you know, I, I published through Amazon and
also, it's $9.38 if you buy it through Amazon. Uh, and I can buy as an
author for much cheaper. I will donate the book to anybody who wants
it. If they write to me or they ask me, I will give them a book for
free. I make no money. I think I make 20 cents a book or 25 cents a
book.
Diniz Borges: You're not, you're not making much $9 I can tell you
that.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Like it's not the reason I wrote the book. You
know, not to make money. So again, I just want to mention that to you.
Diniz Borges: Well, that's great. If folks are interested in, if they
get ahold of me, I can get all of you and, and you can give them the
book. That's, that's very generous. Um, how, we're commemorating as we
started the beginning Portuguese Immigrant Week in California. How
much of your life Joseph was shaped by who you are as an immigrant
from the Azores. How did that play a role in becoming the person that
you became?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Well, as I mentioned earlier you know that my
beginning, you know, traveling and all that stuff. My background had a
lot to do with my, if you want to call it success. Um, and so, um, and
even, you know, even today I am one thing that I've never been too
much involved as my brother has with the Portuguese community as much
as he has. I have you know; I belong to some clubs. I belong on PP,
PFSA and other with org, with SES and PEC before, right?
Diniz Borges: Mmhmm, right.
Joseph Miranda Lima: And but I never really became closely involved
with those organizations. But I always followed that, I always
thought, I always listen. I'll tell you one thing interesting when I
was in Iran, I got a short-wave radio. It was the only communication
with the outside world. Why? I listened to the Port, I forgot what was
the Portuguese broadcast and BBC. It was, you know, because I want to
keep up with what's going on in the world. So, if I always, my

Portuguese background it became very important in my life and what I
pursued in life.
Diniz Borges: I'm going to read just one little quote here, if you'll
allow me and those listening as well. And um, it says when I go back
to Graciosa in recent years, I try to recreate those memorable
moments. But it is not possible. Uh the awesome singing canaries have
been extinct in the wild. There is noise from cars and other motor
vehicles which did not exist years ago. So, the environment for those
peaceful moments does not exist anymore. How is it going back to an
island that's different? What if, how are your feelings about that?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Oh, that's, that's amazing, extremely emotional
because when I go back there, not only that, but also go see the
pieces of land that my dad had, he had about I think it's 12, I
mentioned about 12 pieces of land but all very small pieces of land
all over the island. But I have a lot of memories about those places,
and I go back there to look at them. One of them has a little cave
where he used to go there to have lunch and then as a young kid oh, I
think I'm missing the book. My dad always trying to carry a little
wine with him, right? And everybody drank wine, even the kids drink
wine, so I have a drink a little wine with him and then I fall asleep
uh and so that was you know, very important. But if it was, I would
tell people out there that came from the Azores and had a similar
experience. I'm not sure if I can do it, it would be great to write a
book, you know, a full book about that experience that I had. I when I
was writing that I thought gee I can turn this into a book you know,
just that experience growing up in the Azores and the life in the
Azores at that time and compare it to what life is today, it is
changed, nothing even close to it, what it was back in the ‘60s and
you know, late ‘50s and ‘60s.
Diniz Borges: Do you feel still though after all these years, you feel
that you go back, they still welcome you?
Joseph Miranda Lima: Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, I still have, we
have a house there, mentioned in there. We, we, we, we remodeled our
house, we go back there, the bad thing is we don't use it enough. Uh
and we use it all the time. I've been going to the Azores almost every
year, except in 2009, I'm sorry 2008 because my wife had leukemia. She
was in the hospital for quite a while. And then during COVID, you
know, 2021 20 no 21, 22. Last year I went back to the Azores with my
brother, we went back there. And so other than that for 25 years, I
would go back to the Azores every year and usually always go to
Graciosa, but also see some of the other islands.
Diniz Borges: So right. And so, to end that you say in the book, you
talk about that your life kind of is uh an epitome of the, of the
American dream. What is that, what to you um has been important about

achieving this that makes it really your American dream of, of, of
your life in the United States?
Joseph Miranda Lima: You know, again you know, go back to when we, you
know that I mentioned leaving the Azores and coming to the United
States. There was this very visions, you know, you heard things about
it. I did not know anything by the way. I had no English. The few
words that I learned was mostly, I think my grandfather told me how to
say, “Thank you.” Most of the other things were, I learned after
coming here so I did not know English. But I had these visions of the
country, you know, what am I gonna be, what you and um and so uh these
dreams yeah, if I want to say, you know, and I pretty much
accomplished those dreams as I went along, you know. There's one also
one experience, I explained that when I was in Graciosa in after
church, you know, leaving church and you, probably a lot of people my
age that grew up in there know what happened? There was always
something going on after church.
Diniz Borges: Uh huh.
Joseph Miranda Lima: And one of them was this magician was waiting for
the people to come out of church. We all got around them and he would
play tricks, you know, he put coins on your ears, and he pulled coins
out of you hair, out of your sleeves, right? And he also tell things
stories about. So, he turned to me, and this is you know, this is was
in my head, for he turned to me for some reason which I cannot, I
don't know why and he said, oh you, you know you're gonna be, you're
gonna be tall, I'm not tall, tall, but I'm fairly tall, especially for
the Azores. And he said you're gonna be you're gonna travel a lot and
you're gonna be rich, you know something I am not rich, but we live
very well, and I did travel the world and I am fairly tall, and I keep
thinking about what the guy told me, I write in the book about it and
I said gee what a dream. Uh you know to, to have that and then kind of
accomplishing, accomplish what this guy told you.
Diniz Borges: One last thing and I promise it is the last one. When we
um as you said in the end there of the book, you go back and do kind
of a genealogy trip to the family, you know, to your forefathers.
Those who are here in America, you talk about Manuel Reya [assumed
spelling] Lima from the 1870s, Christian [assumed spelling] Lima from
around 1890. You talked about your family from uh and, and, and their
connections, as you said, many of them had come here and worked here
and then went back to Graciosa when you, when your parents came here,
did they ever talk about, we're going to do what grandpa did or what
great grandpa did. We're gonna go there for a few years and come back
was ever, was that even ever a thought about it or not?
Joseph Miranda Lima: I think my mom had that in mind. I think my mom
did, mom did that. My dad, I'm not sure but she did. But as you know,

when you get a bunch of kids and you grow up in another country in
California and especially once they started getting married, going
back became very difficult. She always dreamed of going back when we,
we, we fixed the house, when they were still alive. And the idea was
that it would go back there and live in the house where my mother did
not. My dad still went back there a few times after we, we remodeled
the house and but you're right. No, but they never said that, you
know, we're going to follow their first steps, or you know, no, I
think, you know if they had those thoughts it did not materialize.
Diniz Borges: It might have been in the back of their head, but it
wasn't something that was a goal…
Joseph Miranda Lima: Especially my mother.
Diniz Borges: You know? Yeah, yeah. It was, it was not a goal. I mean,
I know that my own father, that was his goal because similar to you my
grandfather had been an immigrant's on my mom's side, not on his side,
but he had been here 19 years actually in Tulare County in the same
city I live in, not too far from where I live today, but, and, and my
dad when he came to America was his, his, his, his dream was to be
here. You know, maybe my grandfather was here, as I said, for 19 for
18 years. My dad thought maybe, maybe we'll be there 12 years, a dozen
years and we’ll come back, you know, and you know, he had his house
and of course his land. Um, and that didn't happen. I married fairly
soon. And then we had grandkids and actually he told me one, one time,
he said you know, thanks for spoiling my dream. I'm not going back
now. I'm not gonna leave my grandkids. So, but anyway, I think there
is probably sometimes that in the back of your mind, but it seemed
like that earlier generation of your grandparents and great
grandparents and great uncles etcetera, they had that tradition a
little bit more of coming over here, working a few years and going
back.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Exactly, you know, um I'd like to mention one
thing quickly here, those people who are listening, you know, you'll
see in there in my book that I said, I had a story to tell, you know,
but I tell a lot of people who asked me about you know, and I said,
listen, you have a story to tell. You know, just think about it and
write about it, you know, write it down, put it on paper. So those
people that are listening that you know, whatever the experience may
be think about writing your, you know, your memoir or whatever. Uh and
so that's something that I highly encourage people to do.
Diniz Borges: Indeed. Indeed, even if it’s just passing on from family,
if they want to publish it, it’s very important.
Joseph Miranda Lima: That's exactly right.

Diniz Borges: Well Joseph, thank you so much, Joseph Miranda Lima, the
book is right here as you can see.
Joseph Miranda Lima: You can call me Joe, also.
Diniz Borges: I will call you, Joe also. Alright, okay. And uh so Joe
thank you so much. The book is, is here and as we showed it, uh it's
called as I said, Thanks America an Immigrant's Journey. Um and
Joseph, so you gave the, you gave the title Thanks America um in the
aspect because I take it and from reading it, um you feel and, and uh
and you know, I'm not gonna judge it one way or another I'm gonna have
you do it. I could take a crack at it, but you feel that uh some of
these things could only be accomplished in this great country.
Joseph Miranda Lima: Exactly. I talk I mentioned that in there. Yes.
As a matter of fact, at the beginning I have a quote from uh the
Supreme Court Justice Ruth…
Diniz Borges: Ruth Bader Ginsberg, yes indeed.
Joseph Miranda Lima: And you're right. I feel that what I accomplished
could only be an accomplished in this country. As I mentioned also, my
dad could have gone to Brazil. He almost went well two places. He
almost went to Luanda. I mean to Angola and then Brazil. I'm I don't
want to say but I'm kind of glad he didn't because coming to the U.S.
I was able to accomplish those dreams that I have. You’re right. And
so that's why I say, you know, thanks America for what you gave me.
Diniz Borges: And thank you Joseph for spending time with us for
spending this basically hour with us uh telling your story again the
book, Thanks America, an Immigrant's Journey. I highly recommend it
and as Joseph said, as Joe said um take time to also write down your
stories best of luck and we'll be in touch and again, thank you so
much for spending this hour with us and happy, happy immigrants week
to you. Happy Portuguese Immigrants Week to you as well.
Joseph Miranda Lima: I really appreciate it and especially during this
special week. It’s great.
Diniz Borges: And it is, and it's a special book. Thank you so much,
appreciate it.
Diniz Borges: Thank you, Diniz.