Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute Collection

John Sousa Interview

Sousa, John

McCoy, Kelley Campos

ENG

Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute

3/9/2022

SCUAD_pbbi_00039

Kelley Campos McCoy: Uh so, what is your full birth name?
John Sousa: I'll say it in Portuguese and then I'll translate it. João
Fontes Sousa, John Fontes Souza, we say in English.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Were you named after anyone?
John Sousa: Not that I know of except the last name Of course, that's
the family name.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, when, and where were you born?
John Sousa: I was born in the Islands, island of São Jorge in 1950 long
time ago.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, can you tell me when did your family
immigrate to the United States?
John Sousa: Well, uh they didn't all come at the same time. I'm from a
large family. There are 10 of us. My father died when I was nine. And
then one of the brothers older than me wanted to come to the US at the
age of 17. He wanted to avoid military service in Africa. Portugal was
in war in Angola, Guinea, and Mozambique. And so, he tried to come,
and the government said, no, you can only come if you're called by a
parent living in the US. My mother is the daughter was the daughter of
an American citizen. My grandfather was a sheep herder in Nevada here
at the turn of the 19 hundreds. Uh He got his citizenship papers in um
Marin County in 19 06 and then returned to Saint George to raise a
family. And so, when my mother heard this, she says, well, I can go
any day. And so, I think in a week she left and came to Modesto and
then called my brother uh Joe. And then he came, I was in the
seminary. That's where I did the high school uh in the islands. And
so, then I left, and I came with my younger brother. Uh today he is
Doctor Frank Sousa at the University of Massachusetts. He's the
director of the Portuguese Department there and the center Portuguese
Center, he was nine years old. I was 17. I brought him over. The two
of us came and I went to milk cows in Modesto. My brothers had an
opening there in the dairy and I was there for a year. I didn't like
it. I wasn't good at it. I needed out. So, I went to Modesto Junior
College to learn English. I enrolled in August 1968. And um and then I
became a teacher, a vice principal, a principal and lately as
superintendent. I retired 10 years ago.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, then to recap um your mother came, first
landed in Modesto and then three of your brothers, two of your
brothers and you came over.
John Sousa: Well, uh if, if you wanna go in that detail, it's a long
story. Uh It would give it, it, it, it would give a movie, a film, you
could create one. My older brother when he turned 17, he came like in
1964 I think, or 63 at the time they let him come. Then when the next

brother was going to come, he couldn't. So, mother had to come. He
came with my older sister and then I came in uh uh June 1967. Then
three or four of the other brothers then came and then the whole
family was here and then we all went different directions. The three
older ones uh had dairies most of their lives and still do. And I went
to study and all the younger ones studied and one is uh a pastor in
Turlock. Father Manuel Souza. Then my other brother George Souza is,
uh, he just retired as a counselor psychologist and the younger one is
still a professor uh in Massachusetts. The younger one was a teacher
in San Jose. She just retired because she has a preschool and it
required time and effort, So, she retired from instruction and does
that full time. My sister worked in a bank and uh that's all of them.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Okay. You say that's all of them? So, I couldn't
keep track. So, how many Children?
John Sousa: There are 10 of us in the family. I'm number 40, I missed
one Sebastian. He's kind of the real estate tycoon in Turlock.
Kelley Campos McCoy: All right. I remember you saying 10? I was just
kind of there were nine right now? All right, good. Okay. I, I am
clear on that. So, was it the dare then? That that, um, that drew the
family then to Modesta?
John Sousa: Yeah, it, it, it was the job of the two older ones because
they were working in Stevenson and then, uh accepted the job in
Modesto. The owners were actually from our village in the, in Saint
George. And uh there were four milker, one left and I uh I arrived at
the time. So, the position stayed open for me, and I worked there for
a year and then left to Modesta Junior College, Fresno State and so
on.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, it sounds like there was an established
Portuguese community. Then when you moved to Modesto, is that, would
that be fair to say that it was pretty easy to get adjusted uh to a
certain point?
John Sousa: Uh The immigration to the central valley uh increased after
the volcano in the island of Fay in 1957. And so, early sixties, there
was a big increase in the immigration because President Kennedy opened
it for anyone who was affected by that volcano in the Azor. So, in the
19 sixties, you see a lot of Zoran coming to the United States. Um
When I arrived, I was a little bit lost. I didn't speak the language.
Uh, we were peasants, we were milking cows. That was something I
wasn't good so; I was out of my environment of my comfort zone. I
didn't speak the language. I needed to learn it quickly. And, um, and
so, but every week a new group would arrive, we started playing soccer
in Stevenson and the group would increase every month there'll be
someone new to play soccer with us. And then two priests passed by on
the way to the Azor coming from Timor, East Timor and Indonesia. And I

knew them before they were ordained priests and they heard I was in
Modesto, and they were in Turlock just in passing and they wanted to
talk to me. So, we met, and they said, do you think there's enough
interest in forming a, a Portuguese youth group? I said, absolutely.
Uh And okay, well, then, and so, we had our first meeting on October
17th, 19, 1969 a Friday. Uh there were about 37 that showed up and
then it increased later on. We had fifties and sixties and the number
of youth that kept coming uh because it was a very safe environment it
was done in Portuguese. It felt good for me. It felt good. And um and
so, that continued to expand. This was at Sacred Heart Parish in
Turlock. But uh the activities continued increased so much that the
English-speaking parish community kept saying to the pastor, hey,
these foreigners, they have everything. They have, the Portuguese
youth group, they have retreats they have uh meetings for parents. We
have nothing. And so, the solution was to kick us out. And so, we were
kicked out of the parish uh mid-May 1972. And they thought it would be
the end of it, of, of that activity. But we went over to the Assyrian
Catholic Church there on Berkeley Avenue and we told them we've been
kicked out.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Can these two priests say mass here?
John Sousa: Oh, yeah, we're a small congregation. We'd love more people
here. Yeah, sure. So, then we started, they started saying mass there
and the community congregated there. We went looking around for a
property and we found this one today is our Lady of the Assumption in
Turlock on Walnut Avenue. And uh and so, we bought the five acres that
came up for sale. There was uh a pig there. We transformed that to the
adults uh meeting room. There was a, a, a goat barn type thing. We
prepared it for transformed it for the youth group to meet. We brought
in a trailer; the priest went to the diocese and uh asked for
permission to say mass there. And our first mass, I think on a Sunday,
we had a uh 100 and 12, somewhere around there, 100 and 12 people
there, the trailer was already full. And um then that priest saw that
actually we hadn't disappeared and went to the bishop with some priest
friends to see if they could stop us. So, the bishop sent us a letter
saying that uh couldn't have any more. Oh, before they went, before
they did that, we started building a small church. So, if you go to
the parish of Our Lady of the Assumption in Turlock, there are two
churches. There's the small one that seats 100 and 44 and then there
is the bigger one that seats I think about 700 or so. We did 100 and
44 because we were a small community. We, we couldn't afford, I mean,
we were all new in this country. And uh and we committed that we would
pay one-month expenses. Uh Each family took a month. And um and so, we
started building the church the bishops allowed us to start. So, we
started, and the foundations were barely uh visible. This group of
priests went to the bishop of the Diocese of Stockton saying, hey,
stop these guys. And so, the bishop sent us a letter saying, stop
everything. I never gave you formal permission. So, we wrote a letter

to him uh saying that what we're doing fits the teachings of the
church. We quoted extensively from a document that had just come out
written by Pope Paul the sixth called uh that's Latin in English. It
would be on the care of the migrant peoples. And in there it says that
we have the migrants have a right to have a place of their own where
they can celebrate mass in their language, their traditions, hold
meetings and all that kind of stuff. So, we told bishop if you stop
us, you're going against the teachings of the church. So, then he took
this to the National Conference of Catholic Bishops and got their
opinion and I, I understand he was told he couldn't stop us. So, he
came back and told us to go ahead and finish. So, the church was
inaugurated on June 11th, 1973.
Kelley Campos McCoy:

And uh what a story.

John Sousa: Oh yeah, it's a very interesting story and we all feel bad
that it hasn't been written. We, we carried this story and once we
start dying because we're all in our seventies this story might
disappear. And to me, it's one of the most beautiful stories of
immigration. Then from that small group, some left the cows and went
like like Borges, you know, he was uh working on the Portuguese radio
programs in Portuguese. It's a insecure job, not well paying at all.
He was a young guy. I remember him. We talked many times. He went to
study and now you know what he became uh in my case, um I went to
study, became a superintendent. Another one of uh of the 12 founders
went to study, became a superintendent in he retired several years
ago, uh two others became professors at Fresno State. Um And, and so
on from a small group concentrated but very determined. Um a lot of
stuff has happened. The story of that parish is something that should
be written before everybody disappears from the scene.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Absolutely. I agree with you on that. Yeah. Well,
let me, let's go back a little bit because you came to this country
when you were 17 years old. Correct. Did you miss your island? Must
have been difficult.
John Sousa: It was very difficult. Especially because I didn't speak
the language here. I had a, I didn't have a footing, you're floating,
and you're trying to adjust and see if there is a place where you can
land. Uh and so, I thought because I don't have a father that provides
that safety net uh for me to try this or try that. I felt I was in a
situation of sink or swim. So, I went to college, and I registered um
and it started and I didn't speak English and I thought if I don't
make it here, I have to go back to the because I had high school and
in those days the study, the level that I had could lend you a good
job. And so, I remember thinking, I'm gonna give it my all. And uh in
November, I remember on Thanksgiving break and after we came back, the
students in the foreign Students club were telling, hey, you're
speaking English I see you don't even notice you're just picking up

from everywhere you can and all of a sudden, I was fluent and people
say, hey, where did that come from? See I'd go home and listen to
Walter Cronkite give the CBS evening news. That's the way it is. Uh,
and I would tell myself, man, if he spoke a little slower because
while I'm figuring out a word, he keeps going and actually he didn't
speak that fast. Uh, but that's the kind of life I was doing, you
know, that I was going through the stage of my life. Uh, at that time,
in the meantime the we kept growing and the group and then the church
uh we founded a, a soccer team and, and things uh were increasing.
Then this beautiful girl came from Brazil. Uh she had come from the to
Brazil. Her parents had um uh a problem uh where the water just washed
everything away. They had and then they came to the US and here comes
this girl speaking with Portuguese with a Brazilian accent. I was the
president of the youth group, and I started talking to her. We
married, that's my wife -Kelley Campos McCoy: Is this Modesto Junior College?
to.

And I'm trying

John Sousa: Yes. Yes. Yeah. When we actually got married, um, I was
already, uh at Fres, I, I was at Stanislas State finishing up my BA
and then I came to Fresno State for my master's. I finished my
master's here in 1973 August 1973 walked the line in June or May May
or June 1974. And she was my girlfriend at the time we couldn't marry
because I couldn't afford to get married. So, she was staying with her
parents, and I was at my mom's and coming to Fresno State and then
once we got jobs we got married in Turlock on July 5th, 1975. That's
46.5 years ago.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Congratulations.
John Sousa: Thank you.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, it sounds like uh your, your family
assimilated. Well, as, as you were kind of talking about the
accomplishments that your siblings also had. But was it important to
your mom and to even the Children to maintain a strong sense of
Portuguese identity?
John Sousa: It sounds like it was that's who we were. You know, a plant
can only grow on what it is. You know, a fig tree cannot grow as an
orange tree. Uh and so, we were Portuguese and when you, by the time
you're 17, you're gonna be Portuguese for the rest of your life if
that's who you are at 17. And I, you know, over the years I told my
wife when I retire, I want to go and spend three months at our house
in Azores, and she said, “doing what?” I said nothing. I told her
people don't imagine the toll that it takes took on me using myself as
an example that it took on me to compete against native speakers and
beat them for those jobs that I held to be a teacher I many, many
people interviewed for that position when I became Vice Principal,

many native speakers, they were probably all native speakers
interviewed for that job for Vice Principal for Principal for
Superintendent. And so, I always had that knowledge, that awareness
that to get that job, I have to be a little better than everybody else
because they'll detect the accent a little bit. They will know that I
didn't go to high school in this country or elementary. And so, that's
a void in your career. But I could also make up for -- Yeah, but I did
it in another country and I was very successful in college. Uh I
always had a and, and graduated from Fresno State with and all of that
stuff. So, you have to uh give it extra also. I had to be very aware
of the surroundings. What do they want to know what and compensate
almost over-compensate so, that I could do well in the interviews and,
and I succeeded as you can tell.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, you went to you got your master's degree at
Fresno State. Did you know that you wanted to be an educator?
John Sousa: Yes. Yeah. Oh, I mean, it's in my family, my mom, ever
since I was, we were kids, she would always say we're poor but through
education you can become somebody. So, that was instilled in us very
quickly. I enrolled, I enrolled the, in kindergarten a year before I
was supposed to. But the teacher was our next-door neighbor. She
allowed because I already could read and not read fluently. But I knew
a lot of stuff. I knew the history of Portugal. And, uh, and so, I was
very inquisitive uh and, and so, education was the only way for me. I
thought of going to be a banker. I thought of trying this, trying
that. And I would always fall back. I went to the University of Santa
Barbara, uh as a student in 1966 and 19 and 1967. Wait. Uh, no, uh,
1976 and 1977 I was already married and, uh, took uh courses in
Portuguese in two summers. I went back as a, an instructor at the
University of Santa Barbara for the intensive Portuguese summer
sessions of 1981 1982. And I was offered a scholarship with everything
paid for to get my PhD there. And so, my wife and I we analyzed it.
Those were difficult years for education uh, uh I'd have to go across
country hunting for a job at the university in those days. And so, I
decided we decided, uh, no, let's stay here and raise our family with
the family because in a sense, it would have been another traumatic
move for me having lost my father at the age of nine. Never having
grieved that because in those days, you just don't talk about those
things. So, the grieving of the loss of my father took me my life
long. I only really, really grieved in my late forties and fifties
when I, when my siblings would get together and we started talking
about things in the past. We each realized that the other one also
hadn't finished grieving. And then we started talking openly about
these things. And finally, because my father left home with lung
cancer and went to the island of Terceira, we never saw him again. He
died and was buried there because they're buried the next day, the
same day or the next. So, no closure. We just got a telegram that he
had passed away there. We didn’t go to the funeral we never saw him

again. And so, you know, I
think I carry too big of a
across country looking for
And I never regretted that
ever made. And that was an

remember in those days saying, you know, I
load to go fight this other one of going
a job raising kids away from the family.
decision. It was the best decision that I
important decision.

Kelley Campos McCoy: To stay with your family?
John Sousa: Uh huh and raise the family here. And then we were a very
religious family. My wife, my dad before he died, we pray the rosary
every evening. He led it. My wife, uh my dad died, my mother started
leading the rosary so, we all we never missed mass. We took many
courses in religion. So, we would learn and study our faith. And so,
today, looking back, I see the hand of God in many of the things that
happened to me and to my family you know, uh my faith has increased
and it's not because of what I studied, but because of what I lived, I
don't need proof of the existence of God. I have lived, I'm a living
proof of the existence of God. That's the way I see it myself. And so,
when I'm a deacon and when I'm preaching, I don't need to convince
people from what I've read.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Yeah, that helps to enhance the message, but it
didn't create the message. So, was it a natural um deacon John, was it
a natural progression for you? Then after you were a teacher, then a
vice principal, a principal, a superintendent? Was it, was it
inevitable? You think that you would go on and become a deacon? Or at
what point did you become a?
John Sousa: Well, my wife and I moved to Hanford uh in 1982. So, it's
gonna be 40 years this August that we moved to Hanford uh to become a
teacher. And um I, I started getting involved in the church and the
Portuguese community I taught uh catechism in Portuguese. I taught uh
Bible studies in Portuguese. And uh and then uh uh Father Dan from
this diocese, he, he was in Hanford at Saint Bridges for many years.
One day he and I were going together to a meeting of teams of Our Lady
in Hilmar and as we were driving by the Sanger area, I remember that
day vividly he was driving. I was in the passenger seat. He says, hey,
John, have you ever thought of being a deacon? I said, father, I have
thought about that, and I would be honored available, and I would love
to do it. But I don't feel the calling and it's something that I feel
that if you are not called, you shouldn't get in there. He goes.
Really? That's how you feel, I said, yeah. Oh, I'd be honored to be a
deacon. Well, the next day our deacon there uh was coming out. I said,
hey, deacon, uh what does it take to be a deacon, He says all the
orientation classes next week and it's in our parish. They're coming
from all over. It's here I'll sign you up for that orientation. I
said, yeah, I wanna learn more. Well, the rest is history. I was
ordained January 15th, 2011. And uh nine months later I was the
director of the permanent and have been doing this for 10 years.

Kelley Campos McCoy: So, can you explain to those of us who are not
Roman Catholic, what the role of the deacon is in the church?
John Sousa: Yeah. Well, the best word to uh to describe a deacon is a
servant. We're servants, uh comes from the in Greek. And so, we're
servants. The the church created it as a, a permanent order because
deacons in the past before Vatican two, they were transitional deacons
on the way to priesthood. Uh Vatican two in early 19 sixties created
the position of deacon in which we're ordained, but we're not ordained
to offer the Eucharist. The mass were ordained for service were uh
ordained for the diocese and for the bishop, we are his arms and feet
throughout the diocese. Whatever the needs are, he sends us there like
he sent me here when I was still a baby deacon to be the director. And
um and so, it's service service. The three ministries of the deacon
are the uh ministry of the word. So, we're supposed to announce the
word of God everywhere and every time we can, so, we preach, we teach,
then we have uh m uh ministry of liturgy. So, we serve at the altar,
we can do expositions of the blessed sacrament. Um We can do baptisms,
funerals, weddings, all of those things I do have done many of them.
And uh and then uh and then the third category is ministry of charity
and justice. So, we have many deacons here that go to to prison, to
minister to incarcerated people. And we have the largest incarcerated
population of any diocese in the world is the Diocese of Fresno. It's
the Diocese of Fresno because we're eight counties. We go to San
Bernardino, to Nevada and, and to LA, you know, our borders go far
away. It's a humongous uh diocese. And so, I'm hoping that all the
chaplain positions that open up in the future in prisons will be
filled by deacons because it is very appropriate for us to minister to
incarcerated people. I've done that and it is very rewarding, and they
really appreciate us going there.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, how many deacons are associated with the
diocese?
John Sousa: 82 right now.
Kelley Campos McCoy: And as the director then are, are you responsible
for all of them or what specifically?
John Sousa: Yes, I am. And I'm also responsible to form the future
deacons. So, anyone who wants to be a deacon, a Catholic deacon in
these eight counties that compose our diocese basically goes through
me. They go to their pastor first usually or the pastor will call me
and say I recommend so. And so, they give me their phone number and I
start right now. We have 34 couples journeying to the diocenate in the
diocese of Fresno. We have 17 guys to be ordained October 1st of this
year, God willing. And we have 17 journey that they just entered. So,
it's still a long road ahead and usually not 100% of them make it. But
right now, today as we speak, there are 34 couples because they
journey as a couple, even though only the guy gets ordained, they have

to grow together as a couple uh in prayer, in holiness or things fall
apart. And so, I think overall, we have been very successful as far as
that goes.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, we've been talking about the Roman Catholic
Church and as Candice can attest to you know, in many of our
interviews, uh, the folks that we've spoken with have said that they
can't imagine being Portuguese without being Catholic and vice versa.
Can you speak a little bit about the role that the Catholic church
plays in the Portuguese and Azorean communities?
John Sousa: Yeah, most of most of the Portuguese that you have spoken
to um probably uh have their roots either came or have their roots in
the Azores Island. Islands. Uh, there are nine of them and uh the
Azores were discovered in the mid-1400s. And then the populations that
came to fill the land were Catholic. And then over the centuries
through the isolation, it became kind of a solid group of Catholic
people, peoples in the various islands. And so, everything that
evolved, the customs, the traditions were connected to the church. If
you look at the Holy Ghost celebrations, the festas they come from the
celebration of Pentecost Sunday where the queen of Portugal queen,
Queen Isabelle, uh they say Isabella, they say Elizabeth in Portuguese
we say Isabelle, uh she as the queen on Pentecost Sunday would welcome
the poor and, and crown one of the most poor of the poor and that she
would feed them. And have them try uh her crown. And uh and so, you
see that in the festas, they have a big procession, they have the
queen and, and, and the, the court and all of that and then when they
get to the church at the end of mass, the queen is crowned. That's
where the tradition comes from. And then all many, most of the
traditions of the Azorians have connections to the church. You know I
have been asked as a deacon to go to bullfights and bless the crowd
and the bulls before fights before the bull fights. What connection
does that have to the church? Well, it's a dangerous task to get in
with a bull that is not playing with you. The bull is serious when he
chases you, it's for real. So, it's a very dangerous activity. And so,
they want a blessing before they venture uh in the ring with a bull
and so forth. So, I think that most, if not all the traditions of the
Azorians over the centuries were cemented around the church and so,
when these people go to foreign countries and they want to revive
whatever they know, what do they know? Traditions that are connected
to the church and they've been able very successful to implement them
in California, in Massachusetts, in other countries, it's very
distinctive. Uh but they revive those traditions everywhere.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, let me ask you a question if I may. Um do you
think that as time has gone on and people have immigrated to the
United States, especially when you talk about 2nd, 3rd generation
Americans. Do you think those traditions deacon John are still tied to

religious meaning, or do you think it's maybe lost some of that over
time?
John Sousa: Now, the tradition goes on. Sometimes the meat, the, the
religiosity that created that tradition may not be there because I see
people coming in uh in the parade, which in the Azores we call
procession. Uh, they come in the parade to the festa, and they come to
church and then they stay outside, outside the door. Uh and they don't
go in. So, you can tell that sometimes in the second generation and
third generation, they're not practicing their faith, but they still
want to maintain the cultural aspect of their uh of, of their
traditions.
Kelley Campos McCoy: And as a deacon, how do you feel about that?
John Sousa: You know, I'm a deacon to help Jesus save souls. I'm not a
deacon to criticize and to judge others. Uh yeah, there are some
things that I probably would tweak, that I probably would change, but
that's not my mission. And so, when they ask me to go bless the
cattle, like they do sometimes uh on the day before the festa I go and
I enjoy a meal with them and I'm there with, that's my people. I'm one
of them. I love it. I love to be with them when my brother Father
Manuel Sousa in Turlock, they have the big festa in August. He always
invites me to be at the altar with him and to even bless the cattle or
be in the procession and everything. Those are my people. Uh and the
older I get, the more I love them, you know I feel comfortable. That's
who I am. And now that I, I have retired and that I have the freedom
not to compete with anybody for anything. I enjoy these things. Always
more. My wife and I we’re going to the Azores this summer God willing,
we're taking our grandkids for the first time. And so, yeah, now it
doesn't bother me as a person. As a deacon, I wish that sometimes they
had kept a more vibrant faith, not just the external appearances of
the faith that created what they're celebrating.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, you mentioned your family, I'd like to talk
about them. Now you mentioned your wife, I know you're a father and a
grandfather. How important was it to you and your wife to raise your
children with a strong sense of Portuguese identity or Azorean
identity?
John Sousa: Again, that's who we are. We raised them the way we were
and and the way we felt that that's us. When my older son went to
school, he didn't speak English, he was five years old, went to
kindergarten at Roosevelt School. I was the vice principal. And so,
the policy in the State of California is if someone comes in and, in
the registration, shows a second language, you have to test the child
in both languages, English and the second language so, that we see how
we address the child's needs. So, my son uh tested proficient in
Portuguese and proficient in English. Wow. I'm thinking well, watching
cartoons uh playing with the neighbors, you know, all these other

things by osmosis, he had gathered enough of the English language to
be deemed fluent when he started kindergarten. The reason we always
spoke and to this day, we still speak Portuguese to our kids. And then
sometimes we go back and forth in English. But if it's just our kids
and not the grandkids we sometimes speak to them uh in Portuguese. But
my wife and I were convinced that if they didn't gain fluency in
Portuguese before school, they would never gain it. They learn words
and they unders, they would understand here and there. But it wouldn't
sink in.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Tell me about the importance of language. Tell me
why why Portuguese, why maintain that language?
John Sousa: You know.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Go ahead.
John Sousa: Words. Speaking is an expression of your identity. You
know, when we listen to a speaker, we start passing judgment or this
person is this way or that way because you can't hide your identity,
the person that you are inside once you speak. And uh and so, for us,
this connection what has been and will always be, uh very important, I
can function as well in English today as I can in Portuguese,
actually, I found out last night or this morning that this interview
was going to be conducted in English because I thought if it's Diniz,
he's probably going to conduct this in Portuguese and I just found out
a few hours ago and here we are in English and I'm not struggling with
expressing my thoughts. If they were in Portuguese, if this was in
Portuguese, I would be feeling just as comfortable. I feel that you
gain by knowing more than by knowing less, you know, one time a
principal made fun of my accent. He was joking we were friends and
occasionally you will detect an accent in me, and he detected an
accent, and he repeated the word making fun of me. I said, hey, be
quiet because for every word you can say, I can say three, I have a
masters in Spanish. I'm fluent in Portuguese that’s my native language
and English. So, I can function in all three cultures and languages.
He can function in one. Yeah, he does it very well, but that's one and
times three is always better uh in these things. So, yeah, now I feel
it's uh a value. If you can learn and function in a second language,
it doesn't mean you're gonna function there. I have a master's in
Spanish since 1974. How have I used it? Not much and now I preach in
Spanish every so often. Uh but so, I haven't used the Spanish
extensively but it's a knowledge I have. And when I went to Spain and
when I went to Mexico, I didn't speak in English or in another
language. I spoke in their language. And after mass they come up and
talk to me and I speak to them like one of their own. So, it's very
valuable to know a second language.

Kelley Campos McCoy: So, did all three of your children then you say
that you speak with them or in, in, in Portuguese. So, what other
customs have they maintained?
John Sousa: You know, uh It's an English tradition, but it's also a
Portuguese tradition. Christmas, for example, they value us gathering
together because of COVID. I told my and we were hosting uh the family
Christmas this year. So, I told my wife, well, we can have half of the
family in the sunroom because it can accommodate 18 people. And so, we
could probably have six people there and then the rest will be in the
garage. So, my younger son lives in LA, and I called him, and I said,
hey, Albert, I'm thinking he goes, “No, no, we're all gonna be in the
garage together at one time. What's Christmas about family? We're
gonna be together.” And so, I communicated to everybody. We'll be
there. So, you know, if you need to wear a mask, make your own
decisions and we accommodated, made sure and nobody came down with
COVID. But what I could see was the importance of this family
gathering. You know, my family the side of my family, we still gather
for Christmas and usually it's about 70 people on Christmas Day and my
wife's side of the family is on Christmas Eve, which this, this was
the one I'm talking about. So, you know that's one aspect of that and
then, you know, getting together, doing barbecue and family. You know,
for us family is very important. When you grow in an island you don't
benefit from the safety nets that we have today, you know, insurance,
welfare, all these, it's family when you're hurting, when you can't
make it when you can't do it. When you don't know what to do you go to
family. So, it's very important to have not just the nucleus family,
but the extended family. And that's very prevalent in the Portuguese
community. You'll see them getting together in the Portuguese halls
playing cards, celebrating the killing of the pig and a big meal and
all of these things. Uh family is tremendously important, and it is
the same in my house.
Kelley Campos McCoy: It certainly sounds like something that you've
passed on to your, to your children. I mean, you're taking your
grandchildren to the uh Azores.
John Sousa: Azores.
Kelley Campos McCoy: With your daughter in law, who is Jewish.
John Sousa: Jewish and can't wait to go to the Azores.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Yeah so, so just a few more questions. But so,
tell me about the Azores, what is it about the Azores that, that calls
you back on a regular basis?
John Sousa: That's a very interesting question. And my wife sometimes
asks me that, what's there calling you? And uh there is a pulling that
reaches the depths of your soul. Uh if you have been born in an island
because when you're born and raised in an island, you are, you have

limitations everywhere and the big limitation is the ocean. And uh as
a kid, if you get sick, I mean, you're gonna die in your village. You
know that there'll be minimum services that will be rendered to you if
you have a cold or something but something very serious, there were
very few services and, and so, the island molds you and I've seen in
California that this affects the men more than the women. I don't know
if it's because we're more outgoing and therefore experience more the
limitations outside. Uh but I've seen many men that want to return
back to the Azores once they retire and some do and have, there are
many Portuguese retired people there that made their living in
California. I for one, I'm 72 I wouldn't mind living the rest of my
years in my little village uh or at least a year or two or three. I'd
love to be there. It took such a toll on me to live and be part of the
rat race and to make it that I'm not exhausted, but I love to go back
to my roots and enjoy it. Carefree. My island has less than than
10,000 people as a population, no freeways, no cities, and you go any
place at night or a day. Uh it's a carefree place to live. And so, I
almost wanted to finish living my youth by going back there. I guess
I'm becoming a little philosophical about this, but it, I'm trying to
answer your question.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, what do you hope that your grandchildren and
your daughter in law take from the experience?
John Sousa: That they grow as a human being that they open their eyes.
That there is more than Glendale where they live. The world is not
just Glendale. Uh, the world is not just Hanford because they come to
Hanford too and they know my fam, our family and, and so forth, but
for them to experience. And also, I want to tell my grandkids when I
take them by the hand in my village. That's the picture there. I'm
gonna go to the woods there and I'm gonna tell them you're part of
this too. You came from here. This is the, the, the part that my
grandfather uh opened up to cultivate the land and this is ours. This
is yours too. You're part of this land. I did, did that with my
younger son in 2014. And I think that kind of touched them realizing,
yeah, I was born in Hanford, but I'm more than that. I actually have
roots right here, you know 6, 6000 miles away or 5000 miles away.
And it enriches you when you become cognizant of not just who you are
but where you came from. Because if you know that, then you understand
yourself better. You know, it's like my grandson uh two years ago for
Thanksgiving, he sent me a, uh a card, a Thanksgiving card and he was
wishing me a happy Thanksgiving. And he says he's half Jewish and half
Catholic. And I, I found that beautiful. I, I saved that piece. You
know, he, at that time, two years ago, he's nine now saw himself as
half, half Jewish and half Catholic. He still didn't understand that
he's half Portuguese. Uh but these experiences and walking the places
and see where I learned to swim and, and the first places where I
played soccer and when I did this or, or that and not just me, but his

ancestors on his father's side uh I think will be very enriching for
them.
Kelley Campos McCoy: So, one final question, you're 72 years old as
you, as you look back on your life. What are you most proud of?
John Sousa: Well, that's a loaded question. Um and it would take a long
time to answer. I'll try to be concise. But the life I lead today as
a, as a, a Catholic deacon and as a retired person also, I look back
and my heart is full of gratitude. You know, for what God has given me
and for how God guided me, there were times when I could have gone the
wrong way and you go, you have two roads to follow. They don't give to
the same place. They're gonna put you in, in a different place. And
the road that I followed uh placed me in a very nice place. I am very
happy with my life. I'm very happy for who I am and um I just love
things as they are at this time.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Was there anything that I did not ask that you
want to touch on?
John Sousa: No, for now, I think that's probably sufficient. I don't
know if the listeners can keep up this long…
Kelley Campos McCoy: I thought you told some fantastic…
John Sousa: with so many twists and turns.
Kelley Campos McCoy: I thought you told some fantastic stories.
Seriously. This was wonderful.
John Sousa: Well, because there is a part that touches Diniz Borges,
maybe he would be upset if I didn't touch upon it. I can say that I
have a hand um about Father Raul Marta coming to Tulare that gave rise
to the Portuguese Center that Diniz was a part for ages for a long
time and uh and created a lot of what has happened. Many of the things
that have happened in, in there and that happened in uh 1985 when
Monsignor [inaudible] who was in Tulare talked to me and he wanted to
bring a Portuguese priest over here. We talked, that happened. I went
to San Francisco to pick him up, Father Raul Marta. On um on March
7th, 1985, we had a solemn entry, entrance into Saint Aloysius on
March 8th, 1985, with Father Raul Marta. And then from there came the
creation of that center that they've had all of these years and many,
many other things that Diniz then could finish the rest of the story.
Kelley Campos McCoy: Thank you so much.
John Sousa: Yeah, you're welcome, my pleasure.