Jose do Couto Rodrigues Interview
Item
Title
Jose do Couto Rodrigues Interview
Interviewee, Interviewer
do Couto Rodrigues, Jose
Mello, Daniel
Relation
Portuguese Beyond Borders Institute
Date
8/17/2019
Identifier
SCUAD_pbbi_00027
extracted text
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Speaker 1: Alright, so we are going to record.
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Speaker 2: 17 right!
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So today is August 17. We're here in San Jose at POSSO.
And my name is Daniel Mello and I am interviewing Jose Rodrigues and who
Jose, could you spell your full na
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Speaker 2: spell?
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: It's Jose do Couto Rodrigues.
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Speaker 1: Okay, perfect. And so just so you know, I kind of have a list
of questions here but we don't have to go through all of them at any
point. If you don't want to answer any question you
definitely don't have to if you want to stop the interview at any point,
definitely have that right. Not a problem whatsoever. Okay. We will have
to go through all these this is just to kind of keep
us on track but I guess we could start with some of the basic questions
here. When and where you were born?
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Speaker 2: I was born in on January 2 1944, in a village of Lomba da Maia
which is part of county of Ribeira Grande in San Miguel.
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Speaker 1: So and in Lomba da Maia, what was life like there? When you
were there from 1944 until 19 you said 1963.
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Speaker 2: Very rural, always known to be one of the largest producers of
milk in the island. Right now is the third Series the biggest producer of
all the islands of a village is a hype and second
one is he the Lomba da maia or Puntegals. So because they we have no
fishermen so people dedicated themselves to the land and they also pushed
into the middle of the island so that the property's in
Lomba da maia go all the way to as you look down on furnish the saw
people from Lomba da maia, all shadow tourists are people from Lomba da
maia. So it's a it's a very, very large producer of milk.
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Speaker 1: Interesting.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And if you don't mind me asking your family's economic
situation compared to perhaps other people in Lomba da maia
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Speaker 2: No.
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Speaker 1: Equal about the same
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Speaker 2: No I did. It was a little better. Because my dad soon after he
got married, he immigrated to Bermuda and he lived there for 13 years
from 1930 to 43. He He never came back for 13 years
worked along, developed the partnership with a friend on a quarry. So
they own the quarry and cut the stones for the construction in there,
saved all the money bought land and when he came back to the
Azores back to Lomba da maia. Yeah, this own land that his own, so he
never worked for anybody else always had men working by the house. There
was very large four bedrooms. So we had above average
and that's why I even got me to go to school because it was unusual at
that time for people to go to the school, because was a big expense. You
have to live outside your home. And besides the co
t of of education, which is not I mean, it was a living outside and it
was very ex
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Speaker 1: So when you went to rese which would be about high school,
correct?
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Speaker 2: Well, it's not high school because it they say we seven years.
So the elementary school in Portugal is four years was mandatory as the
four years you on your own, so 10 years old 10-11
depends on your birthday and then if you want to go to the save you go
from there for seven years, then you go to university.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so you said you had to pay for and obviously.
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Speaker 2: Correct.
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Speaker 1: Away for, so I guess compared to do would you be able to
explain like the cost of le sale as far as like, what percentage of your
income, you know of your disposable income would you ha
e to pay to go to the sale?
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Speaker 2: I couldn't have away I could do it another way. When I went to
the sale and men working with a hoe on the field, it was about $12 a day
and then went up to 20 later on. So 12 went 20 and
the tuition for a semester was 500.
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Speaker 1: This semester would be like us.
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Speaker 2: A semester here. Okay. The second actually, it was a half a
year, not a semester, I'm sorry, a year. But the same, the biggest
expense was you live Lomba da maia you went to Punta Delgado,
you had to rent a room. You have to have your own groceries, you have to
pay the rent, for the daycare, the laundry, and you were non productive
for the family. Right? You were two hands that were not
doing anything on the field until you came back and you were recruited to
go help.
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Speaker 1: So the likelihood of a kid going to school still at the time
not very good.
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Speaker 2: Well, that's for this way, for my my family side. I was the
first one from my mother's side. I think there were two when I went to
the siu in 1950 Is 55-54-55 the Lomba da maia 2600 people
and in siue. There were two students in seven years.
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Speaker 1: Oh.
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Speaker 2: That were those oh there was a third one that there was also a
called Industrial commercial school. There are two more. So if you want
to call high school type two or four.
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Speaker 1: right.
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Speaker 2: In the whole village.
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Speaker 1: Wow.
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Speaker 2: It was very small. Lee sale at that time, if I remember the
statistics at seven years of education, and the total population for
seven years was 1100 people and on on the Island with
150,000 people.
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Speaker 1: That's a very small.
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Speaker 2: Very small, no there were there were little pockets. For
example, in Ribeira Grande, was a little private college might have
another 20 or 30 I don't know. But the the sanction, or
government education was very small part of it because there was also
there was no opportunity, because if you went there, and that's why a lot
of people went to the commercial school, because if you
went to the commercial school, you could take accounting, or electrician
or mechanical or something. So we'll give you something if you went to
lee sale after lee sale, the last two years, split into
languages or sciences. It was the preparatory to go to university. So you
would go to, to go to those two sections. But if you didn't go to
university, you had a degree of a lot of books. And the best
you could do probably is working in a bank as a teller because it was
something or something like that, but there was no there was no
opportunity, at least the one from the Industrial school, you
could work in an actual Mounting offers so you can work something out. So
a lot of kids assist probably is the equal amount would go to the
Industrial school because they could work work jobs.
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Speaker 1: So if so there is a university on in San Miguel?
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Speaker 2: Oh no that was not at that time does you only have one at that
time that was Coimbra that was it. And I think Lisbon was already open.
But that was it.
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Speaker 1: So literally in the 1950s-60s the only university in all
Portugal was still Coimbra.
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Speaker 2: Correct.
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Speaker 1: So all the universities say for example in Lisbon in Portugal
came after
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Speaker 1: right, to travel? And then live there?
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Speaker 2: No, as it the stage for the whole year so they couldn't afford
to go back and forth. It was too expensive.
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Speaker 2: I think they did I'm not gonna bet on those two but I think
was Coimbra was on purt might have opened already because yeah, purt
might have open already and and Lisbon because they were
they were pushing pretty hard because there wasn't enough capacity. Yeah,
but but the only university was in the mainland. There was nothing in the
Azores as a matter of fact, even lee Suie, if you
get the last few years, if you don't want to do the six and seven year
but you want to go into elementary school teacher, which was, and you
will live in Fiala that you have to come to Punta de Gar
a, because you did the six to seven and the six and seven year did not
exist in fiala for him. It was only in San Miguel and Syrah. Yeah, there
was all kinds of limitations. Can you imagine the expens
of being.
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Speaker 1: Even from Lomba da maia and the Ponta Garça?
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Speaker 2: Lomba da maia to Ponta Garça on a road trip on the bus was
more than a man's wagers worthy.
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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that's, that's shocking.
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Speaker 2: It is.
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Speaker 1: So it's difficult, very sounds like a very difficult life. So
that leads me to kind of maybe the next question here. So It appears to
me at least, that many people older Portuguese
immigrants, your peers, perhaps I feel like romanticize the Azores. And I
don't hear too many people who lived there and who lived there for a good
amount of time like you for example and have
experienced and memories talk about the negative aspects. So So why do
you think perhaps in your opinion why some immigrants or peers,
romanticize the Azores the Azores more so than talked about the
limitations and the difficulties of the Azores?
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Speaker 2: I think we have one interesting we call a Portuguese sentiment
which is so odd which as a way to colorize everything with very pink,
some eyeglasses The second thing I think, I think
sometimes people do not want to talk about it because it's the diminishes
them. I'll bet you if I went to the valley, or here, and I talked to all
these people, they will all grow up with no
bathrooms, no showers, probably have one pair of shoes.
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Speaker 1: Dirt floors.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, dirt floors, you know, they all did. So how
can we romanticize that is because we lemma was a happy life and that's
all we knew. And I think you would agree with that. If
you're if your knowledge is limited to a certain area, and a solid, you
know, anything that's the world that's as nice as it is. You cannot cover
it some things you don't know.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: And I think people do not read. So they now know television.
And so they didn't know what else was on except the letters from America.
However, with all this romanticism, as if there was an
opportunity to immigrate, they were on that ship, pronto. So, obviously
there was not a big, a big push to push anybody out. And, for example,
the uncle that I came to California to join. And those
days they went from Lomba da maia, him and the others from San Miguel to
Dominican Republic. And after one year, they were being starved to death
to working in, in sugarcane, substituting for the old
slaves. So you can imagine what the conditions were, and many went back
and back, but you but the immigration drive on the Azores, I think it's
the best affirmation that not everything was, was as
good as people romanticize. I mean, I romanticize a lot of, you know, the
days of schools and the happy friends and all that. But I think we part
of the human spirit, we subtract the hard things in
our lives, but we do it over here too. You know, I, I'm sure you went to
school, there were better days than others. But we don't think about
those days we think about the good relationship with the
teachers and, or whatever it is, or the good job and the good reviews and
I think that's why people romanticize them a little bit.
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Speaker 1: Interesting. Right and I always thought that too, is why
immigrate then why immigrate if everything is fine. If everything was
perfect, what was the need for immigration?
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Interesting, good. So speaking of immigration, what was the
conversation like with your family regarding immigration, like, you know,
the motives for example?
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 1: Were there any dissenting voices so for example, and my
family, at least from what I've been told one Grandma didn't want to come
and the and my grandmother did want to come and and one
argument was from my grandfather that, fine if we stay here, once the
kids get old enough, they will leave.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: That's undoubtedly true and then we're going to be stuck here
by ourselves. So we need to, we need to go now as as since we're all
young as a as a family. So what about your family? What
was the conversation like regarding immigration, you know, the motives or
any people?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my father has been an immigrant that came back if
I was that generation that you collect as much money, whatever it is,
come back and do it was my fault. I also had very many
drawbacks, you know, he never went to school. So I taught my dad to write
his name. So surviving Bermuda was difficulties. And Bermuda at that
time, also had limitations or you know, because it was a
contract work, you can bring the family there's all kinds of things. And
then, very young, my oldest brother I had an older brother 15 years older
than me. He was 55. So he was like 18 or 19 he
decided to immigrate to Canada. That was the first one. And that was a
very traumatic time, especially for me because I was the little kid. He
was like my second dad, right?
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Speaker 1: Umhm.
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Speaker 2: When it came to my side, it was my uncle that lived in
California, the radio program in California. Agnelo Clementino went to
visit the family. And he stayed at our house and we
conversation. And he's the one that brought up the point of me coming as
a student. And it made sense back to economics, because for me to go to
Coimbra, which going to share this when I was at
university. I was going to put my dad in very difficult financial
situation, because it was expensive to be in Lomba da maia I can imagine
what going to the mainland and the housing and the dressing
and the food and all those things over there. And of course, that going
over there is not like I had a family member that could guide me you
would be this 18-19 year old. Hallelujah I'm free last. So
my uncle is the one that approached it and said, how about if you go to
United States and finish your schooling there? And it wasn't an easy
conversation. Obviously, my mom being the the hand trying
to get all the chicks around the wings. My dad was not as difficult. He
just gave me some advice of an older immigrant things to be careful and,
and said, you know, you got to you're going to pursue
your own future and doing and 63 September I came to Nigeria, by yourself
by myself and then had the uncle over here. Well, I had two uncles, one I
didn't know at all live in Turlock at a dairy and
then I this uncle in San Rafael, that's the one I met.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so the first place you came to you said was?
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Speaker 2: San Rafael, yes.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so San Rafael and you were 18 or so.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: And when you first immigrated, so when you first come to
California, how did you feel? What were the two? Remember that emotions
and feelings?
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Speaker 2: Oh, well, that was that, first of all, you go through this
tremendous disconnect, that you connected to a to society to a group to
people to friends, and suddenly you don't and at that
time, I also decided that because English was my biggest drawback that I
would go one year to high school here. So I went to share high school and
got my high school diploma. And that was a very tough
situation because even though the English I was behind by miles remember
that clearly, emotionally, I was ahead of the students I was with the,
the conditions in which I grew up in Portugal, maybe
just overall or maybe because I was in a city and, you know, since I was
a young kid and and had to go to school and manage myself and all that I
was emotionally a different maturity than than high
school. And then the second part was the economics because you can very
hard to be dependent on somebody else. And so you start all these all
these thing questions you probably did not. I did not
question when I started with back in the Azores. I didn't think about
this details. Maybe I should have. Yeah. And so that created a little, a
little difficulty adjusting to it. The good thing to it
was because of my Portuguese at the time and my uncle had a had a a radio
program daily on a station in San Francisco, go fy. I assumed start
working with him on the radio program. So I started making
a contribution. And then on weekends, I I got some jobs, no dishwasher,
whatever I could. Now, mind you, I was on a student visa. So my working
was limited because those days of student visa, you had
to add a year student visa renewed and when you went to the immigration
you have to bring you you have to bring your your grades and you know, it
was it was a whole reveal a whole thing to go through.
But that was the system that time. So I had to kind of walk that fine
line.
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Speaker 1: And how was it being so separated from your parents?
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Speaker 2: Well, that was difficult, but not as difficult because I was
already living in. I would I would go to Ponta Garça right now. For the
start. I would be there until December. Come on for we
can have for Christmas. Go back to come back for a week and a half for
Easter and then don't come back until June. So I was I was living out of
the house. So that and that was more dramatic when I
started going. I remember getting on that bus at at 10-11 years old, and
going to the city by yourself. And I remember crying meant, you know,
because living my brothers and my parents and and go to a
house, even though that it was my cousin with a family but you know, it
was not family there was not somebody I was I was really close to it. So
that was so by the time I come to United States, I have
so much experience on that being alone, I was I was in better shape.
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Speaker 1: So, the next questions obviously kind of deal with
chronologically speaking kind of in the United States now, but before we
leave Azores, just real quick question. Did you have any idea of
how beautiful geographically beautiful the island was? I was there three
years ago and two years ago, actually, and San Miguel was far and away
absolutely the most beautiful. I haven't seen all the
islands. I've only seen five of them. But it was absolutely just
geographically environmentally beautiful the lakes, the volcanic lakes,
you know, the valleys, the northern area, the cliffs right
there on the east side of the island. Just absolutely beautiful and I
keep telling my mom and dad they need to go visit. So as a kid, I guess
did you have any idea just how absolutely beautiful the
outline was?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you did some for two reasons and especially with with
coming to to Ponta Garça, is that you very early got exposed to the set,
see that? And the feedback that people say, Oh my
God, look at this place, and of course, Lomba da Maia because the way
that we're situated we look when you when fonish you're looking down on
the lake that that was part and then the other side of the
salt Cove all that you see over prism. So I was used to see that. But as
beautiful as it was, the thing I was lacking to was comparison. I mean, I
was telling my niece a couple weeks ago that my high
school let's call it badly so we didn't have a projector. We've studied
art will all slides on a glass folded thing. And so I don't care what a
beautiful it is. But there's a difference on if you look
at the last supper in color, that really makes a big difference. And then
in the late 50s, the American consulate gave us one and I remember going
to the gym and I put the slide he was like having my
gun, look at it in color. You know, I mean So we didn't have a good
comparison to to other places where it was. But we knew some of them.
Marcel, for example, if you because we had the cow fields up
there by a shot of the shoot, and you have the alms, trees grow, and then
you have the hydrangeas on the side and the cobblestone. I mean it's,
it's to die for it you know, so as it you, but then you
didn't know I didn't know how much of the world was like that. So.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: I know that
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Speaker 1: I can compare.
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Speaker 2: Yeah that compares.
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Speaker 1: So you have family members in various parts of the world is as
you were saying. So how did this happen and with the spread out family in
various parts of the world as there ever been any
regrets about immigrating?
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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. The last one is I have an uncle, my father's
younger brother, which immigrated he he immigrated to Argentina My god, I
don't even remember him and he was there for like 40
years, never came back hardly ever wrote, my program mother was to cry
their eyes out because never did and then one day and this man gets off
the school the bus with two suitcases and returns home.
And I think what the regret of the thing is the conversation we are
having early a little bit about family when people immigrate and as a
family unit that goes with that and you develop that
environment of love and support, it's a much more tolerable situation.
When you immigrate to Argentina or to the Dominican Republic or, or to
Bermuda, you're the only soul there your wife is someplace
else or your children. And that becomes isolating and not not a happy
situation. Those that immigrate in a unit. Sometimes they regret, you
know, I look back sometimes and, you know, as I stayed with
gred elf, could have done this or could have done that, you know, for
example, with with the revolution in Portugal, and I was very familiar
with a lot of the people that were part of the movement and
later on depends on the Azores and all that, you know, what role could I
have played, and would so you go through that fantasy of a little bit.
But other than that, no, I don't I don't regret it
because it allowed me to do my studies and without putting my dad and any
financial difficulties.
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Speaker 1: Right. So in I think he kind of already answered this
question. So as soon as you arrived, you you finished you enrolled in
high school.
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Speaker 2: As soon as.
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Speaker 1: and graduated.
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Speaker 2: right.
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Speaker 1: And then you were able to work on the weekends you helped your
uncle out on the radio. So I was reading José that you've lived in a few
cities in the US or mainly Nevada and California for.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: Throughout your life. So what took you to these these cities
these places?
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Speaker 2: It was not immigration. It was it was the due to work. I
worked and I was in San Rafael and then lived in Tiburon for a while. And
then when I joined the because I worked with San Jose
State University for a while. And then when I, which was great work, I
enjoyed it very much. But an aside here, I found that at the university,
there were either either you have a PhD and you really
have a very smart and you have an opinion or otherwise shut up because
you don't have a PhD. And so I said, No, I'm not staying here. So I
joined the Hertz Corporation. And my first assignment was out
in LA. So I moved to Valencia, LA. And my second assignment was in, in
Las Vegas, so I moved to Las Vegas and back came back and bought a house
in San Mateo and then and we bought another house in
Belmont just just a and but that was worth worth dictated.
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Speaker 1: And you had said Belmont, where exactly is is?
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Speaker 2: It's next to San Mateo.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so right here in west bay okay.
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Speaker 2: Nothing to do with the horses.
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Speaker 1: So, and then you kind of already answered this question. So
Portuguese radio, you said you started with your uncle?
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Speaker 2: Now he, he had started allready, he started this Portuguese
radio program, I think like in 55 in San Rafael, there was a radio
station in San Rafael KTIM, which at that time was also owned
y the local newspaper or the IJ Independent Journal. And remember that in
the 50s, when television showed up, when television showed up everywhere
was going to television so radio became like the
nwanted medium. So foreign language was a way for them to fill that time
get some income because everybody wants to advertise was on on on on
television, even though was black and white. So you start
orking on doing this program once a day, as you might think at that time
you choose, among other words change. At that time the program was
Colonia Portuguesa-Portuguese Colony. But the word Colonia
-colony became not the right word to use in the 70s. Right? Right. So
became a community. And he was very good amount only other third, third,
third grade education. But he was very entrepreneurial,
as a decent player, a Portuguese guitar and singer. So if he had no
records, he would just turn the mic and sing and talk and sing and I'm
going to do it. And then at that time, he got involved with
guy from the east coast, and they imported Portuguese movies and showed
in California. They would show it from his part was from Lincoln several
men all the way to Tulare about 11-11 years and you
were to go and rent a theater, we call fore wall you take the response
except for the projection because at that time was complicated with with
old projection. So when I came and join him and wa
starting with a program, then probably like 66 or so we joined with it
with a with a gentleman from the east coast and we start bringing in
Portuguese singer groups. So we were bringing four to fiv
groups a year also to do shows for a week seven shows in California. So
I was going to school full time and and then doing the show three hours a
day and doing.
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Speaker 1: Interesting, so you've been active in all things Portuguese
here in California. Why? Why not just become you're in America now and
like many other perhaps immigrants, Portuguese immigrants
is kind of not necessarily lose contact with your island or your family,
but culturally speaking, lose contact and just focus on say, America and
not focus so much on maintain Portuguese culture. So
why, why have you been as active as you are in California? It ports in
terms of Portuguese culture.
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Speaker 2: I think that was dictated by the fact that I was involved with
the radio program and the radio programs in those days and you're
centered to the whole community. I believe when we were
going out there from memory when we were doing the films and then as soon
as you send the invitations out, I think there were like 66 radio
programs in California. The furthest one south in Tijuana,
Mexico, and the farthest one in the north was in Sacramento. So with that
experience I got drawn into it very heavily and I was president of the
council and all that. So the Portuguese community became a an
obvious connecting avenue for me for the relationships and, and the
promotions and the things that would that I did. My wormet is not in
there. As as time went on, I got involved in other stuff
because example I I was one of the founders of the first soccer team at
culture Moran. I was personally I was president international students
Akash Moran, especially international students at San
Francisco State. So I did other things outside. But there's no question
that was a draw from from the Portuguese community because of my
involvement and no, I, I knew it the Portuguese Community as
close and as detailed as anybody else.
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Speaker 1: So, the next questions kind of a similar question, but as
Portuguese immigration to the US continues to lessen, dry up in a sense.
Is it worth focusing on trying to maintain a distinct
Portuguese American identity here in California? Why?
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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know what identity means. Because if you mean,
the cultural aspect, yes, I think it's an enrichment that needs to to
stay. But there are some but there are some changes that
have to occur too. First of all the the the cultural identity that
existed, it was very much driven by the immigration that existed at that
time where people came and there, they missed the soccer
games and they missed this and they missed that. And they were willing to
do the labor work that takes to get all these things going. So they
didn't mind if they became President of the hall, that
they would come and serve the Supers and clean the next day and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah. The se but they're also rare to see that and
especially his identity is not there was not a lot of
cultural content to it. There were traditional content. Because you
couldn't bring people say, and that's why maybe we didn't do a very good
job in preserving the language. Because most the people
that when they arrived, they came they had there four year of education,
the kids went to school, they had to go to work and all that they weren't
they, you know, they probably couldn't even teach
that to children very much Portuguese. And it just fell by the wayside.
It was not it was not that important for them. But, but the traditions
like the Holy Ghost, and all that is, it's very
important. I think that's a presence that not to not to overemphasize,
because, as I said, right now, one of the difficulties they're having, we
are having with with this things is that the lack of
the volunteer work to manage these the halls associations. I mean, we
have we have organization in San Jose, that they've been without
directors for three, four months because nobody wants to step up.
But on the other hand, not too many people have the time to that to go
there every day, because they opened the door and somebody needs to be
there and to say, because we have we have a dichotomy and
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appreciated it's very interesting and I don't quite never understood.
Even even when promo radio. I mean, I just bought a radio when we would
promote dances like is up the street, and we would charge
$1 for admission. And today, people are very proud that they can they can
now go to dinner at the Portuguese hall for Super for free, right? But
part of that is because the directors work their tails
off their wives and everybody else to clean the place and set it up and
cook rather than say, okay, we're going to pay $5 and we're going to have
a crude that can do this. We have not transitioned
that I think that's part of the of the problem going on right now. So we
need to bring that that thing. The other one is, I have I'm of the belief
that if we look at the push community of the 70s,
there were better, more efficient bridges between the academia, academia
and the community. I mean, if during those days if I walked into the
ideas with Dr. Center or my own DS, people knew them. We
don't have that we will become much more separated. I don't know all the
reasons or why why not. So if we look at what other cultural events we
doing, we all do now. So we could I think the community
needs to migrate a little bit from Okay, we have enough food and we have
enough dancers and all that let's pay for the thing and to something that
the kid the new generation can attach to it. They
they cannot survive as a community just because they have super they
gotta be more to it. But it's it's getting difficult. I I don't know
where to start because in one way and what I've observed is
you have people working very hard at the halls that the associations that
the Tony goes fraternity, whatever the fraternities, but on the other
end, they're not open enough to open the doors to the
new ideas have the younger ones to come in and that say and so you you
kind of you were creating like a parallel.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah and that's, that's very disturbing.
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Speaker 1: But do you feel that this is perhaps a natural occurrence,
inevitable occurrence because as fewer for example, Portuguese people
immigrate and the ones who are here are now second
generation, third, fourth generation fifth generation, naturally, they
become even more and more Americanized and then slowly lose. I mean,
that's just kind of an inevitable consequence, and a
massively uphill battle that we have to massive uphill battle that we're
fighting.
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Speaker 2: Right
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Speaker 1: Perhaps
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Speaker 1: You know, and maybe just played up playing doubles advocation.
Perhaps it's not our energy is spent, perhaps maybe doing other things as
opposed to preserving some of these cultural
aspects?
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Speaker 2: It is.
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 1: So
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Speaker 2: No, you gave the right. I mean, I'm still flabbergasted that
we spend so much energy on the Oakland A's of Portuguese night and we
cannot get enough people to, to serve in a board of oligo
sign.
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Speaker 1: So I'm sorry. You said we get a lot of people for Oakland A's
right Portuguese heritage tonight San Jose Earthquakes, right. But we
can't get the same amount for a festa speed suns.
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Speaker 2: Correct. And I don't see the connection. The Oakland A's or
the the earthquakes with the Portuguese, just because you're a cash call
that says you know, you know, that there's a but I think
it's the level of commitment. It's a fun thing to do. Right? You go see
the game you got there and you know, and you wave your cash or whatever
it is and and the people, when when when I look from the
outside to the festa, it's a very tough grinding, we force everywhere
you're to, and it should be able to lighten it up. They're going to be
they're going to be a we're going to be easy to do it. So
that because I think that it would not and I think we got to be careful
about this, you brought it up, you're right on, I think would be would be
an error, if if the young third or fourth generation
did not connect to the Americans, because that's what they have to live,
survive, thrive, grow their families and make the contributions, right.
It's just if there were things in the back there and
the cultural aspect that would enrich them, that they could participate.
And again, it doesn't mean just food It could be a symposiums it could be
whatever it is. That would that would connect a
little more and but right now it's it's very difficult.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: It's very difficult it's everywhere it's not I'm sure that
valley is you have a lot of that. I mean we sitting across from an
organization which is very different because of the Benfica I
understand that there were like three or four months they couldn't
couldn't have enough people to form to form a board.
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Speaker 1: couple years ago right?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So that that the see but but if you talk to your
grandfather or to your father, your grandfather, soccer was not something
in his in his background. Now, soccer did not exist. I mean,
people go back into Look, if you look at, for example, a big team and
here's what faials fort. They still spell faial the English. We with a
why Because that's what the British brought the thing,
right? So we so football, soccer was not a sport. That was the we didn't
play in Lomba da maia. For two reasons, number one was not known. The
ball was expensive, but the other one nobody's gonna give
you that much land for you to go play. Okay, that much land could feed
the family.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Right now we had much more it was Volleyball because people
will get to the backyard, put a net and play volleyball in a very small
space, volleyball with it. And only later on when I was
in school and was probably 12 or 14. We start playing football soccer in
Lomba da maia, we will take the field where they they put the trash for
the wheat and they cannot cultivate right we would go
clean it up. And then maybe we should want to hump and pile them. And we
play soccer there and older people will come and watch us play because it
was It was finally started something. But it was your
when your grandfather would not. That wouldn't suck. It didn't mean
anything to him.
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Speaker 1: Right. And that's true, it's a it's it's, it seems like with
at least the the older immigrants compared to the newer immigrants in
football it's
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Speaker 2: No. And that's why we then we got I mean, who ever heard
pulling Casa De Sica? It's very hard to survive because you have to
attached to the team, right. But thePortuguese athletic
club or other in the valley there's a few of them because there was
new immigrant needs. They needed the soccer thing. This was part of
tradition. That things changed.
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Speaker 1: So you said Comp da paya?
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Speaker 2: Comp da palha.
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Speaker 1: Oh Okay, palha.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, straw.
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Speaker 1: Yeah okay, all right Interesting. So this is kind of a
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of
be
the
the
Speaker 2: By the way interesting, that Lomba da maia that's not to the
interview. Now, friend of mine. Which you live in United states and was
my first grade teacher United States, he went back, I
was just broken dude when he was there. And he gave a field and made a
football field for Lomba da maia, they had a team and now they have a
field and no team that that shows that the people go to
watch the game someplace else. So they having the same disease.
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Speaker 1: So, like I've said before, you've been committed to preserving
Portuguese heritage here in the US. So why do you feel you've been more
committed to this belief than say other Portuguese
immigrant appears? So I guess what makes you different than say, you
know, some of my family members who you know great, hardworking people,
just like all the others, but as far as their commitment to
the preservation of Portuguese American culture, you've definitely stand
out and other peers too, but compared to many others, So what is it about
you, for example, that's, you know, has a major that
makes you different?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think there were a couple of things. One is personal
interest. I mean, I remember being 10-11 years old and we used to have
two cheese factories in in in a village. And one of them
close down. And they're those old accounting books, with columns, and he
gave it to me. And so I would go to the subsequent tables to see and I
would sit there and write it down. Or I will talk to
older people and find out the street because like, this lady down the
street, telling me about her family in recalling, when the French
disembarked in the Azores and marched up Lomba da maia and
people were hiding because they didn't know where it was. So I will I
have an interest in things that I must say the fact that I was involved
with a radio in a program and made me even closer to it.
And of course, coming with with from having that issue and pointed out, I
have a larger cultural baggage than most people do with education when it
was not there. So I felt an obligation to share as
much as I could and like even today when I do certain things, like if I
do, you know, power of attorney, because I could do both languages, what
the hell I can do this very quickly. And so, when you
were in that position, you almost get pushed to because why not? I not to
do it. It's no, no skin off my teeth, you know, type of thing. And so the
the last one is that even though I wasn't a laborer,
and in a valley or here, but I appreciate it very much the work because I
saw with my oldest uncle, which had the dairy in Turlock, the work ethic,
that commitment that drive, knowing of the
limitations but not let them put on. So that was a way that they were
able to conquer this limitations at great personal sacrifice, right. I
remember this friend of mine telling about my uncle,
because him my dad and to visco they were the four strongest men in the
village and they were known, okay. He said, Your uncle in Turlock back in
the 40s or 30s, they use to plow with the horses
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right? Because the water would come a certain time it was not like today
you have on demand and he said he would get the first team in and as long
as it was he would change team but he was working a
day or a night or two. They never stopped. He would just change the
horses. When you see people like that, I mean my uncle's hands. It were
the biggest things I've ever seen than anybody because you
can see so I had an appreciation very much for for them because I came
from that background. I Lomba da maia, I've in my family. Yeah, as I
said, we all basic former people. So when I came over here
to do things that would highlight capture, like the purchase as
publications, that's why I was interested in a book of the Holy Ghost and
and because that history to me is very important is something
that your children can read sometime later and still mean something that
that will disappear, unfortunately, unfortunately, but but, but that
history will stays, and will give them I think, some way
to understand your grandfather, because then things will be so different
that they will be able to see that the conditions that these people
survived. And so, these things around my life made me
really want to participate and, and do what I could to, to help. You
know, and then I'll give this to under there's a bunch of other things
that may no I did for for other things. You know, when I was
president of YDS Council, I was chairman of the board of the Portuguese
Athletic Club and, you know, things that I participated because it was
was the thing to do. Well, I was the vice president of
the Portuguese Athletic Club when Athletic Club when we start doing the
the conferences, and we used to have a very structured series of lectures
during the year by the top from George Senea to Mion
dier to work on subjects that we will dramatically address and because we
thought there was a way to bring that forth and let people know that
there were some cultural history and content that was
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important to pass on. So that attracted me.
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Speaker 1: So, got more questions real quick. So, in the past 60 years,
how has the Portuguese community here in California changed your opinion?
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Speaker 2: The best 60 years of 6
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Speaker 1: 50 or 60 years?
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Speaker 2: Oh boy. changed I think that first of all, one thing that I
could use you pointed out, there's no new immigration. Okay, that's
obvious. And, but then with with the new generation being
born here, you see the diffusion, where we don't have the concentration.
For example, this area we are here right now. If you were here in the 50s
and 60s on the 60s and the 70s, if you went from here
down upon the five wounds and all that area there was all Portuguese
housing everybody on the streets, you turn right or left, there will be
all Portuguese couples. Now they've moved. First of all,
they moved to the white road because it was a new houses and now they
move to the mountains and so that the Portuguese community in the next 50
years has become spread out and probably without a lack
of an area where there is such a concentration. You know, I noticed say
that Modesto is, as you know, it, hopefully they'll be able to maintain
it. But let's see what happens where the time goes on
the size of the cities. So the committee is the second generation as
gotten integrated into the American system, the jobs, the the marriages,
and then people start moving to other places. The second
part is the loss of that population and radio programs which was much
maintained it. I don't think it's just one view. I don't think that
people today have given the radio programs what they do. Yeah,
it's true that you have a newspaper and you have a record and keep it
this way. But remember the radio programs that time at, according to the
arbitrary numbers 200,000 listeners. I remember just an
example, when there was the, the earthquake in Saint George 69 I believe
we were on the air in the we haven't completed the first half hour. We
already had over $60,000 raised. That's a lot of money
in today's dollars. This is the days that, you know, people would notice
George Miller would have thousands of people so that as the few speakers
that generation has disappeared, the new one become
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involved with something else in their lives. And so that I don't know if
I am looking forward Not the strength, but the visibility. I think it's
diminished.
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Speaker 1: Okay and how, in the past six years how have the Azores
changed? I know you haven't been living there but I know.
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Speaker 2: Big time big time I think that I mean, the change from from
the dictatorship was huge. And I think that the after they went through
that internal battle with with the independence and all
that the autonomy even though there's a lot to be desired, as created
among them an identity much stronger. That maybe would existed what what
has not changed for me and the Azore is people are still
battle the lack of job opportunities. I'm not sure if the government can
do or not do something about it. And and you see now the drifting of, of
the population towards the cities. I mean, Punta
Delgada now as what 69,000 people el beda grant as more population and
then faial that tells you little town. I mean sunshore's on to 9000
people so that eco the lack of economic opportunity,
something that worries me about it. But it has changed. The other hand,
on the positive side, the opportunity to reach to schools is tremendous
economics there's a lot better than than there were. The
there's a knock look that people have positive that I think they weren't
able to get to do something that they couldn't do the old days. I mean,
remember that? When I grew up in the Azores was you
couldn't go to the mainland without having a passport.
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Speaker 1: Really?
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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You couldn't get in a ship that says I'm going to go
to Lisbon. So, I couldn't go from Rome. I couldn't go from something else
to say that says I'm going to move.
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Speaker 1: So even to go from island Island?
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Speaker 2: Yes, yet. Yeah, you can you have to have documentation.
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Speaker 1: Well, the same document that would you would need to go from
Portugal to United States would be the same document you would need to go
from?
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Speaker 2: The passport. But it was not able to. Yeah, it was a I don't
think it was a full passport. I think it was like a card or something
that the government gave or the local institution, but
because you take Terseda with the opening of the base, if they don't do
it that there are people, hundreds more people showing up, because they
thought they were going to get jobs at the base. So that
became kind of protectorate. Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Interesting. So, how do you like how do you feel about the
Portuguese community, the future of the Portuguese community here in
California?
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Speaker 2: I feel I feel fine. I just, we have to realize it's going to
be different. We have to realize that it might involve less food meaning
the Holy Ghost might might might have to rethink this,
this what they're doing. It might involve more of a communication that
that do the thing that I am not able to wrap my head around, is that
where that content is going to come from? Because, Yeah,
true. I can send things very quickly by whatever phone, whatever
instrument, but I still have to have an audience that's willing to listen
to it or read it in some way to do the, and I'm not sure
because right now, the Potuguese community, it's really even though if we
call the Portuguese Community in California, it's really the Portuguese
community of every city. There it is not, you know, if
we think about, we don't have a board that represents the Potuguese
Community of California. We don't.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: We have the Portuguese community of San Jose and Chowchilla
and Oakland and all that and they interact because they get invited to
participate in natural festas, but it's not like we have
this umbrella that exists. I fear that unless the younger generation,
third generation, whatever you want to call them, finds a way to organize
themselves to reach out to that to the other people in
there we might be in a few years, a lot poor in some of the things we
have now, because they don't like they will start being sold or I mean,
I'm from the generation that the Portuguese Hall in San
Rafael was sold, because it was done to six members and this is 19
because I used to work there, going to school I could clean that hall for
a month for $60.
1
00:00:01,590 --> 00:00:02,700
Speaker 2: Looking at every day
2
00:00:03,030 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah
3
00:00:04,890 --> 00:02:01,500
Speaker 2: and and I think it was like 68 or so that we're down to six
members. Nobody that and then there was no interest. So I think that's,
that's what I fear that which is really missing. It has
become a blob and integrating the whole thing and which is harder to
understand than the other because on the other hand, you hear at least we
hear from outside, that there's so many things going on
in a Chinese community in the 70s going on in a Mexican communities, I
mean, going other communities. You hear about it, I don't know if they're
doing more or not, I just don't know. But that you hear
a lot about other things. And because we have a tremendous
infrastructure. We have a tremendous infrastructure, but we have not done
we have not done as well, as we should. Example: The Portuguese
program at San Jose State started, God I was still at the portion
Athletic club. They organized bingo games to support the program. Because
the people the person the first teacher was a nun from the
Portuguese school itself, I won't. And here we are just many years later,
and we still have a program is struggling that's not part of the budget.
That's not you know, people don't don't question if
they're going to teach French one on one for sure to do. So I think that
we have we have something that I don't know quite one understand, but I
don't know exactly what to do about it. Right now. I'm
concerned.
4
00:02:02,590 --> 00:02:11,110
Speaker 1: On the flip side, speaking of college at Fresno State, we're
hoping by the end of the year to have a a minor.
5
00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:12,370
Speaker 2: oh, then
6
00:02:12,000 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 1: About Portuguese, which is about what they have here at San
Jose State minor, but Fresno State we never had a minor. Not even that we
just had a couple of classes Portuguese one, Portuguese
two and that was it taught by one person. And hopefully we so we have
three people there now, you know Dennis one. They just hired somebody, a
lady from Portugal who got her PhD on the East Coast,
United States and the university there in Portuguese studies. And I
forget to the lady who was there before who was there who's who's been
there for the past 10-15 years. So hopefully, we could get a
Portuguese minor at least most of us can minor in Portuguese which is
something we've never had before at Fresno State so so it's good
7
00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:14,460
Speaker 2: no, it's great but the thing now we're going to migrate is
that we're gonna migrate but flat is paying for it to where it's part of
the budget
8
00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: right
9
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Speaker 2: otherwise because you know when flood comes from right i mean
no flood exists because of Terseda of the bus, they don't explain it very
well but flood is not exactly a gift from Lisbon.
Flood exists because from the sound that that as part of the of the deal
that the turn the bass into NATO and all that there's a fellow of the
American government that gives us a ton of, of cultural
minimalistic number money. And that's, that's the flattener.
10
00:04:02,460 --> 00:04:02,850
Speaker 1: Yeah
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Speaker 2: yeah, it's not just, you know, the goodness of my heart,
whatever it is, there was a reason. And I'm glad investing in some
things, but sometimes you got to be where that's what, that's why
the Portuguese community is needed to say, Okay, now this becomes part of
the budget of San Jose of Stanford, Fresno State. There'll be a minor and
they'll be funded every year and all that so it gets
a life of its own. There. And we add another example. We have a very good
Heather's a very good group of Portuguese politicians in Congress and a
net but I don't think we have been very effective in
using them. We have not been very effective. We know it's nice. We got a
number we've got a resolution Portuguese National Day. You know, or
you're somebody made a birthday, but that's not what makes
the program no moment. So like, right now I because I know they're doing
again, the in San Jose that the founder zone is already, you know,
organizing the digitally the image trying to raise money
again for the program. So they don't have enough money to keep the
program alive. So I think we have that's the that's what I think that I'm
worried about the pushes humanity is that okay, so some of
the young generation does not want to belong. They may take the
Chowchilla for example and say with a hall, but then then why are we
spending so much time with the Oakland A's when I'm looking at
Fresno State that we should not be working on how to get that program as
part of the budget,
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Speaker 1: Right, one is fun and the other, not according to me, but one
is fun.
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00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah
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00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:14,180
Speaker 1: and the other is academic, and perhaps not as exciting. I
completely disagree with that. But I think that perhaps might be maybe
the attitude of self perhaps I'm not.
15
00:06:14,960 --> 00:07:52,670
Speaker 2: I don't have any reason to doubt that right? Because it seemed
like fun to me. But a minor in Portuguese at Fresno State is something
that has a legs of its own that creates that and, and,
and even if I don't take a minute, if your, your your child, my God, soon
you'll be in school anyway. You know, that goes. If they go over there
and you want to take one or two classes, because you
know, you don't speak with Portuguese where they want to hold one. This
you know, you can send them there and you know, you're going to get
something. It's something that stays with them. And there's
lots of the possibilities and you've you've taught this and yourself. I
know the feeling you're in is still today Portuguese is the biggest
language in South America. You know, I mean, we get so
blinded because Mexico is so close. So there's there's, there's an
economic power to it too. But right now we have a minor we have a program
at UCLA. And that time was a doctor, my own dear. Hey,
somebody that did a lot is not doing too well, by the way. He is almost
blind now. And then we had Dr. Center at Santa Barbara. Yeah. Which I
don't think there's much Portuguese left there now. And a
Portuguese that's left as far as employment is because they got a grant
from Florida or they got a grant from cowboys and all that. But that's
like you're going to random taking dinner, but that
doesn't know.
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00:07:52,670 --> 00:07:52,970
Speaker 1: Sustainable.
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00:07:52,990 --> 00:08:37,420
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like the old Chinese teaching men how to fish
and it gives you a glimpse at right. I hope that's the thing. We can,
that's the thing I, sorry the frustration, my voice that I
see that all these people that we have that are so good with the social
media and all that I don't understand anything about it. That that's what
I think the focus should be how do I make this
politician on that started getting the Fresno State now that we got the
money to start running to put the foundation on it and build this out in
some way. And, you know, I mean, the example you have
in a valley with, with with the High School of el mar and a couple others
it's it's just not standing.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Doesn't exist up here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah
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Speaker 2: Do you know in San Jose, we've never done anything like that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a diversion program.
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Speaker 2: Yeah
24
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Speaker 1: Elementary school.
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Speaker 2: And then then, now we have high school right to the five ones.
But I don't think there's a Portuguese element to it.
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Speaker 1: No?
27
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Speaker 2: No. So I think that's, that's that's some that's a mistake.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Do I think we're out of time for the interview? Is there
anything else you'd like to say or?
29
00:09:17,050 --> 00:11:48,190
Speaker 2: No I'm excited that not I'm honored than flabbergasted that
I'm being interviewed because I know that you will be finding people a
lot more to say that but I read your your thing I'm I'm
very excited as it is that the possibility that these things will be
recorded and that they are and be online and could be research later on.
Because you probably too young for you, but I look now
back testing they even existed but I have an uncle for you. But he was
married to my aunt he was in California at the turn. of the 19th century,
and he was a shoe Porter in Nevada. I think sometimes
what a great phone would have been to interview that men and ask him what
they did, or they did, because they would go into some of those wagon
type, basket type. And we have, you know, what a way to
to learn, you know, and there are a lot of people in the community that
that you will come across that these stories I think will be valuable
years from now for people to understand the the work that
went into surviving in this environment because you've been back in as
well as you know, as good as it is. Now, there's still a big difference
between the United States in technologies and all this.
So you can imagine somebody coming from something else to say to and
arrived over here. And the only thing they ever had was a hole and a
machete. And now he's looking at cows with electricity. And
you know, I mean, I lived here I lived longer than my we had no
electricity. My house had running water because we were located in the
right place and all that. But Muslim Muslim village are no
running water. There are no sewage lines. So I can imagine people
arriving here. And these people were able to and as you know them, now
Valley, to Stephen start dairies. But then, this is the stories
I hope that gets conveyed and the recordings we'll be doing. We were
doing the book on the Portuguese and agricultural and our graves. We
interviewed one gentleman, When interviewed, that had been a
30
00:11:48,190 --> 00:12:30,340
manager of a bank upgrading in a valley. And he tells the story that this
guy from the Azores wanted to borrow money to start his dairy. So So his
friends that go with you, and we have to, you know,
explain the plan, what are you going to do and all that? And so, one
speaks obviously no English almost. And so when is explained to the bank
manager? That Okay, we don't have the the business plan,
but we would like to the guy said, Wait a minute, wait a minute. I've
been a bank manager just before the depression. There's never been a
Portuguese default.
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00:12:30,940 --> 00:12:31,270
Speaker 1: Right.
32
00:12:31,330 --> 00:13:07,810
Speaker 2: What would you think I would be concerned about it, that tells
more that tells more than any statues, they're going to build around that
99 because that is the character that build it.
That's why it's so much fun working with some of the Portuguese
community. These is because you meet these people. Guess the American
expression is the salt of the earth. They are, can imagine being
in a bank and be totally comfortable because it's Portuguese. Is that
loan have you gonna pay?
33
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:09,010
Speaker 1: Right, yeah.
34
00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:11,290
Speaker 2: I mean, what else can you say?
35
00:13:11,410 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 1: Right.
36
00:13:12,680 --> 00:14:05,300
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's, I think that's why these stories become
important. Because when you when your children your windshield and look
into it, they will see is not going to they're not gonna
modify them. Don't take me wrong. It's just a sense of pride and also to
understand your grandfather and maybe understand you because you are the
bridge generation. So you are unique in that you can
see both sides. I'm sure that you have friends now that you don't it's
like I still mess with that old fashioned stuff. I've done my god I'm so
sorry about blah, blah, blah, because I have it in the
family over here, you know, and it's true to some old fashion but there
are some qualities that's not throw the baby out with a water.
37
00:14:05,630 --> 00:14:05,990
Speaker 1: Right.
38
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 2: That's the point.
39
00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:07,610
Speaker 1: Right.
40
00:14:07,960 --> 00:15:34,030
Speaker 2: And hopefully, that's, that's my hope for for this type of
project is that it gets generated and into an especially nowadays people
can access everything. Maybe we'll get transcribed and
people can pick up whatever they want. Because you're gonna find
tremendous example I'm telling you doing some of these books,
interviewing some of the people I mean, I remember when we were doing the
one of the book was already kosher. We came upon a gentleman, I think,
from Los Banos. That time he had he had subscribed like 72 powers when he
called them. When you immigrate, you have to bigger
until guarantors head on 72 people. That's putting your business at risk.
So yeah, this is people who didn't know. Just a friend because you asked
them a I look at my, my website, the family, the
father and a mother came there were nine children. The highest grade was
fourth education. The oldest one was 18. I think it was 18 or 17. You
went to, to a dairy. What else is new, right? you've ever
been to one race?
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00:15:34,390 --> 00:15:34,870
Speaker 1: Yes
42
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:36,010
Speaker 2: We did the lighthouse.
43
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 1: Yes
44
00:15:36,430 --> 00:15:37,420
Speaker 2: That dairy right there.
45
00:15:38,110 --> 00:15:38,590
Speaker 1: Okay.
46
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:40,390
Speaker 2: That's what that's what he was milking.
47
00:15:40,510 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a few dairies around them. That's very
interesting and strange to see.
48
00:15:45,470 --> 00:17:25,820
Speaker 2: because that that land was owned by people from New York, and
they live in San Francisco and spend more than they could afford. So they
divided all that and is solid and plot the first one
It's a wrench as the noon wrench from some shores from for most life and
then see wrenches also from the brother. And it was very controversial
because that was the first time they saw that the
Portuguese they didn't want to sell to Portuguese, it was only two Irish.
So it was a very touching go but but detail is is is my father in law
there raises family and then between his children and
grandchildren only they all very well themselves. Now we have five
masters already and seven ba and Sampson score that's something that's a
monument that's that's, that's the things we forgot to look
at the community and said what comes out it. That's the thing that the,
the second fourth generation needs to look at and say, man, this it means
something. Because that occurred because the work
ethic of that man, the copper, and the commitment and the support that
they have for their children, even when they had very low, you know. I'm
sure I get excited.
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Speaker 1: No, no, that's great.
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00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:29,060
Speaker 2: So that's it.
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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
52
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:31,550
Speaker 2: You're very welcome.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 2: I'll give this to you. This is a resume and then this is a
bio. I don't know what I did this for has a bunch of things that I did or
none of them do. It's more complete than the one I
answer your questions.
55
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:47,270
Speaker 1: Perfect.
00:00:01,410 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: Alright, so we are going to record.
2
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:16,890
Speaker 2: 17 right!
3
00:00:16,870 --> 00:00:32,860
Speaker 1: Yeah. So today is August 17. We're here in San Jose at POSSO.
And my name is Daniel Mello and I am interviewing Jose Rodrigues and who
Jose, could you spell your full na
4
00:00:33,050 --> 00:00:34,010
Speaker 2: spell?
5
00:00:36,297 --> 00:00:36,567
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6
00:00:36,399 --> 00:00:38,259
Speaker 2: It's Jose do Couto Rodrigues.
7
00:00:38,890 --> 00:01:11,050
Speaker 1: Okay, perfect. And so just so you know, I kind of have a list
of questions here but we don't have to go through all of them at any
point. If you don't want to answer any question you
definitely don't have to if you want to stop the interview at any point,
definitely have that right. Not a problem whatsoever. Okay. We will have
to go through all these this is just to kind of keep
us on track but I guess we could start with some of the basic questions
here. When and where you were born?
8
00:01:11,930 --> 00:01:24,410
Speaker 2: I was born in on January 2 1944, in a village of Lomba da Maia
which is part of county of Ribeira Grande in San Miguel.
9
00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:37,470
Speaker 1: So and in Lomba da Maia, what was life like there? When you
were there from 1944 until 19 you said 1963.
10
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Speaker 2: Very rural, always known to be one of the largest producers of
milk in the island. Right now is the third Series the biggest producer of
all the islands of a village is a hype and second
one is he the Lomba da maia or Puntegals. So because they we have no
fishermen so people dedicated themselves to the land and they also pushed
into the middle of the island so that the property's in
Lomba da maia go all the way to as you look down on furnish the saw
people from Lomba da maia, all shadow tourists are people from Lomba da
maia. So it's a it's a very, very large producer of milk.
11
00:02:25,150 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: Interesting.
12
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:25,660
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13
00:02:28,090 --> 00:02:36,190
Speaker 1: And if you don't mind me asking your family's economic
situation compared to perhaps other people in Lomba da maia
14
00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:36,970
Speaker 2: No.
15
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Speaker 1: Equal about the same
16
00:02:39,000 --> 00:03:54,540
Speaker 2: No I did. It was a little better. Because my dad soon after he
got married, he immigrated to Bermuda and he lived there for 13 years
from 1930 to 43. He He never came back for 13 years
worked along, developed the partnership with a friend on a quarry. So
they own the quarry and cut the stones for the construction in there,
saved all the money bought land and when he came back to the
Azores back to Lomba da maia. Yeah, this own land that his own, so he
never worked for anybody else always had men working by the house. There
was very large four bedrooms. So we had above average
and that's why I even got me to go to school because it was unusual at
that time for people to go to the school, because was a big expense. You
have to live outside your home. And besides the co
t of of education, which is not I mean, it was a living outside and it
was very ex
17
00:03:55,860 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 1: So when you went to rese which would be about high school,
correct?
18
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:17,100
Speaker 2: Well, it's not high school because it they say we seven years.
So the elementary school in Portugal is four years was mandatory as the
four years you on your own, so 10 years old 10-11
depends on your birthday and then if you want to go to the save you go
from there for seven years, then you go to university.
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00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,290
Speaker 1: Okay, so you said you had to pay for and obviously.
20
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Speaker 2: Correct.
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Speaker 1: Away for, so I guess compared to do would you be able to
explain like the cost of le sale as far as like, what percentage of your
income, you know of your disposable income would you ha
e to pay to go to the sale?
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00:04:44,900 --> 00:05:02,990
Speaker 2: I couldn't have away I could do it another way. When I went to
the sale and men working with a hoe on the field, it was about $12 a day
and then went up to 20 later on. So 12 went 20 and
the tuition for a semester was 500.
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00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:06,230
Speaker 1: This semester would be like us.
24
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:40,100
Speaker 2: A semester here. Okay. The second actually, it was a half a
year, not a semester, I'm sorry, a year. But the same, the biggest
expense was you live Lomba da maia you went to Punta Delgado,
you had to rent a room. You have to have your own groceries, you have to
pay the rent, for the daycare, the laundry, and you were non productive
for the family. Right? You were two hands that were not
doing anything on the field until you came back and you were recruited to
go help.
25
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Speaker 1: So the likelihood of a kid going to school still at the time
not very good.
26
00:05:45,330 --> 00:06:14,550
Speaker 2: Well, that's for this way, for my my family side. I was the
first one from my mother's side. I think there were two when I went to
the siu in 1950 Is 55-54-55 the Lomba da maia 2600 people
and in siue. There were two students in seven years.
27
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Speaker 1: Oh.
28
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Speaker 2: That were those oh there was a third one that there was also a
called Industrial commercial school. There are two more. So if you want
to call high school type two or four.
29
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Speaker 1: right.
30
00:06:33,030 --> 00:06:33,600
Speaker 2: In the whole village.
31
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Speaker 1: Wow.
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00:06:34,930 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 2: It was very small. Lee sale at that time, if I remember the
statistics at seven years of education, and the total population for
seven years was 1100 people and on on the Island with
150,000 people.
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00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: That's a very small.
34
00:06:55,000 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 2: Very small, no there were there were little pockets. For
example, in Ribeira Grande, was a little private college might have
another 20 or 30 I don't know. But the the sanction, or
government education was very small part of it because there was also
there was no opportunity, because if you went there, and that's why a lot
of people went to the commercial school, because if you
went to the commercial school, you could take accounting, or electrician
or mechanical or something. So we'll give you something if you went to
lee sale after lee sale, the last two years, split into
languages or sciences. It was the preparatory to go to university. So you
would go to, to go to those two sections. But if you didn't go to
university, you had a degree of a lot of books. And the best
you could do probably is working in a bank as a teller because it was
something or something like that, but there was no there was no
opportunity, at least the one from the Industrial school, you
could work in an actual Mounting offers so you can work something out. So
a lot of kids assist probably is the equal amount would go to the
Industrial school because they could work work jobs.
35
00:08:12,130 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 1: So if so there is a university on in San Miguel?
36
00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 2: Oh no that was not at that time does you only have one at that
time that was Coimbra that was it. And I think Lisbon was already open.
But that was it.
37
00:08:24,730 --> 00:08:30,580
Speaker 1: So literally in the 1950s-60s the only university in all
Portugal was still Coimbra.
38
00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:31,270
Speaker 2: Correct.
39
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: So all the universities say for example in Lisbon in Portugal
came after
40
00:08:38,000 --> 00:09:34,850
Speaker 1: right, to travel? And then live there?
41
00:08:38,000 --> 00:09:39,410
Speaker 2: No, as it the stage for the whole year so they couldn't afford
to go back and forth. It was too expensive.
42
00:08:38,070 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 2: I think they did I'm not gonna bet on those two but I think
was Coimbra was on purt might have opened already because yeah, purt
might have open already and and Lisbon because they were
they were pushing pretty hard because there wasn't enough capacity. Yeah,
but but the only university was in the mainland. There was nothing in the
Azores as a matter of fact, even lee Suie, if you
get the last few years, if you don't want to do the six and seven year
but you want to go into elementary school teacher, which was, and you
will live in Fiala that you have to come to Punta de Gar
a, because you did the six to seven and the six and seven year did not
exist in fiala for him. It was only in San Miguel and Syrah. Yeah, there
was all kinds of limitations. Can you imagine the expens
of being.
43
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,270
Speaker 1: Even from Lomba da maia and the Ponta Garça?
44
00:09:42,570 --> 00:09:46,290
Speaker 2: Lomba da maia to Ponta Garça on a road trip on the bus was
more than a man's wagers worthy.
45
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that's, that's shocking.
46
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,060
Speaker 2: It is.
47
00:09:51,630 --> 00:10:39,540
Speaker 1: So it's difficult, very sounds like a very difficult life. So
that leads me to kind of maybe the next question here. So It appears to
me at least, that many people older Portuguese
immigrants, your peers, perhaps I feel like romanticize the Azores. And I
don't hear too many people who lived there and who lived there for a good
amount of time like you for example and have
experienced and memories talk about the negative aspects. So So why do
you think perhaps in your opinion why some immigrants or peers,
romanticize the Azores the Azores more so than talked about the
limitations and the difficulties of the Azores?
48
00:10:39,000 --> 00:11:22,890
Speaker 2: I think we have one interesting we call a Portuguese sentiment
which is so odd which as a way to colorize everything with very pink,
some eyeglasses The second thing I think, I think
sometimes people do not want to talk about it because it's the diminishes
them. I'll bet you if I went to the valley, or here, and I talked to all
these people, they will all grow up with no
bathrooms, no showers, probably have one pair of shoes.
49
00:11:22,980 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: Dirt floors.
50
00:11:23,540 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, dirt floors, you know, they all did. So how
can we romanticize that is because we lemma was a happy life and that's
all we knew. And I think you would agree with that. If
you're if your knowledge is limited to a certain area, and a solid, you
know, anything that's the world that's as nice as it is. You cannot cover
it some things you don't know.
51
00:11:50,270 --> 00:11:50,570
Speaker 1: Right.
52
00:11:50,930 --> 00:13:21,050
Speaker 2: And I think people do not read. So they now know television.
And so they didn't know what else was on except the letters from America.
However, with all this romanticism, as if there was an
opportunity to immigrate, they were on that ship, pronto. So, obviously
there was not a big, a big push to push anybody out. And, for example,
the uncle that I came to California to join. And those
days they went from Lomba da maia, him and the others from San Miguel to
Dominican Republic. And after one year, they were being starved to death
to working in, in sugarcane, substituting for the old
slaves. So you can imagine what the conditions were, and many went back
and back, but you but the immigration drive on the Azores, I think it's
the best affirmation that not everything was, was as
good as people romanticize. I mean, I romanticize a lot of, you know, the
days of schools and the happy friends and all that. But I think we part
of the human spirit, we subtract the hard things in
our lives, but we do it over here too. You know, I, I'm sure you went to
school, there were better days than others. But we don't think about
those days we think about the good relationship with the
teachers and, or whatever it is, or the good job and the good reviews and
I think that's why people romanticize them a little bit.
53
00:13:21,510 --> 00:13:35,070
Speaker 1: Interesting. Right and I always thought that too, is why
immigrate then why immigrate if everything is fine. If everything was
perfect, what was the need for immigration?
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Interesting, good. So speaking of immigration, what was the
conversation like with your family regarding immigration, like, you know,
the motives for example?
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 1: Were there any dissenting voices so for example, and my
family, at least from what I've been told one Grandma didn't want to come
and the and my grandmother did want to come and and one
argument was from my grandfather that, fine if we stay here, once the
kids get old enough, they will leave.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: That's undoubtedly true and then we're going to be stuck here
by ourselves. So we need to, we need to go now as as since we're all
young as a as a family. So what about your family? What
was the conversation like regarding immigration, you know, the motives or
any people?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, my father has been an immigrant that came back if
I was that generation that you collect as much money, whatever it is,
come back and do it was my fault. I also had very many
drawbacks, you know, he never went to school. So I taught my dad to write
his name. So surviving Bermuda was difficulties. And Bermuda at that
time, also had limitations or you know, because it was a
contract work, you can bring the family there's all kinds of things. And
then, very young, my oldest brother I had an older brother 15 years older
than me. He was 55. So he was like 18 or 19 he
decided to immigrate to Canada. That was the first one. And that was a
very traumatic time, especially for me because I was the little kid. He
was like my second dad, right?
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Speaker 1: Umhm.
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Speaker 2: When it came to my side, it was my uncle that lived in
California, the radio program in California. Agnelo Clementino went to
visit the family. And he stayed at our house and we
conversation. And he's the one that brought up the point of me coming as
a student. And it made sense back to economics, because for me to go to
Coimbra, which going to share this when I was at
university. I was going to put my dad in very difficult financial
situation, because it was expensive to be in Lomba da maia I can imagine
what going to the mainland and the housing and the dressing
and the food and all those things over there. And of course, that going
over there is not like I had a family member that could guide me you
would be this 18-19 year old. Hallelujah I'm free last. So
my uncle is the one that approached it and said, how about if you go to
United States and finish your schooling there? And it wasn't an easy
conversation. Obviously, my mom being the the hand trying
to get all the chicks around the wings. My dad was not as difficult. He
just gave me some advice of an older immigrant things to be careful and,
and said, you know, you got to you're going to pursue
your own future and doing and 63 September I came to Nigeria, by yourself
by myself and then had the uncle over here. Well, I had two uncles, one I
didn't know at all live in Turlock at a dairy and
then I this uncle in San Rafael, that's the one I met.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so the first place you came to you said was?
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Speaker 2: San Rafael, yes.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so San Rafael and you were 18 or so.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker 1: And when you first immigrated, so when you first come to
California, how did you feel? What were the two? Remember that emotions
and feelings?
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Speaker 2: Oh, well, that was that, first of all, you go through this
tremendous disconnect, that you connected to a to society to a group to
people to friends, and suddenly you don't and at that
time, I also decided that because English was my biggest drawback that I
would go one year to high school here. So I went to share high school and
got my high school diploma. And that was a very tough
situation because even though the English I was behind by miles remember
that clearly, emotionally, I was ahead of the students I was with the,
the conditions in which I grew up in Portugal, maybe
just overall or maybe because I was in a city and, you know, since I was
a young kid and and had to go to school and manage myself and all that I
was emotionally a different maturity than than high
school. And then the second part was the economics because you can very
hard to be dependent on somebody else. And so you start all these all
these thing questions you probably did not. I did not
question when I started with back in the Azores. I didn't think about
this details. Maybe I should have. Yeah. And so that created a little, a
little difficulty adjusting to it. The good thing to it
was because of my Portuguese at the time and my uncle had a had a a radio
program daily on a station in San Francisco, go fy. I assumed start
working with him on the radio program. So I started making
a contribution. And then on weekends, I I got some jobs, no dishwasher,
whatever I could. Now, mind you, I was on a student visa. So my working
was limited because those days of student visa, you had
to add a year student visa renewed and when you went to the immigration
you have to bring you you have to bring your your grades and you know, it
was it was a whole reveal a whole thing to go through.
But that was the system that time. So I had to kind of walk that fine
line.
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Speaker 1: And how was it being so separated from your parents?
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Speaker 2: Well, that was difficult, but not as difficult because I was
already living in. I would I would go to Ponta Garça right now. For the
start. I would be there until December. Come on for we
can have for Christmas. Go back to come back for a week and a half for
Easter and then don't come back until June. So I was I was living out of
the house. So that and that was more dramatic when I
started going. I remember getting on that bus at at 10-11 years old, and
going to the city by yourself. And I remember crying meant, you know,
because living my brothers and my parents and and go to a
house, even though that it was my cousin with a family but you know, it
was not family there was not somebody I was I was really close to it. So
that was so by the time I come to United States, I have
so much experience on that being alone, I was I was in better shape.
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Speaker 1: So, the next questions obviously kind of deal with
chronologically speaking kind of in the United States now, but before we
leave Azores, just real quick question. Did you have any idea of
how beautiful geographically beautiful the island was? I was there three
years ago and two years ago, actually, and San Miguel was far and away
absolutely the most beautiful. I haven't seen all the
islands. I've only seen five of them. But it was absolutely just
geographically environmentally beautiful the lakes, the volcanic lakes,
you know, the valleys, the northern area, the cliffs right
there on the east side of the island. Just absolutely beautiful and I
keep telling my mom and dad they need to go visit. So as a kid, I guess
did you have any idea just how absolutely beautiful the
outline was?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you did some for two reasons and especially with with
coming to to Ponta Garça, is that you very early got exposed to the set,
see that? And the feedback that people say, Oh my
God, look at this place, and of course, Lomba da Maia because the way
that we're situated we look when you when fonish you're looking down on
the lake that that was part and then the other side of the
salt Cove all that you see over prism. So I was used to see that. But as
beautiful as it was, the thing I was lacking to was comparison. I mean, I
was telling my niece a couple weeks ago that my high
school let's call it badly so we didn't have a projector. We've studied
art will all slides on a glass folded thing. And so I don't care what a
beautiful it is. But there's a difference on if you look
at the last supper in color, that really makes a big difference. And then
in the late 50s, the American consulate gave us one and I remember going
to the gym and I put the slide he was like having my
gun, look at it in color. You know, I mean So we didn't have a good
comparison to to other places where it was. But we knew some of them.
Marcel, for example, if you because we had the cow fields up
there by a shot of the shoot, and you have the alms, trees grow, and then
you have the hydrangeas on the side and the cobblestone. I mean it's,
it's to die for it you know, so as it you, but then you
didn't know I didn't know how much of the world was like that. So.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: I know that
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Speaker 1: I can compare.
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Speaker 2: Yeah that compares.
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Speaker 1: So you have family members in various parts of the world is as
you were saying. So how did this happen and with the spread out family in
various parts of the world as there ever been any
regrets about immigrating?
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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. The last one is I have an uncle, my father's
younger brother, which immigrated he he immigrated to Argentina My god, I
don't even remember him and he was there for like 40
years, never came back hardly ever wrote, my program mother was to cry
their eyes out because never did and then one day and this man gets off
the school the bus with two suitcases and returns home.
And I think what the regret of the thing is the conversation we are
having early a little bit about family when people immigrate and as a
family unit that goes with that and you develop that
environment of love and support, it's a much more tolerable situation.
When you immigrate to Argentina or to the Dominican Republic or, or to
Bermuda, you're the only soul there your wife is someplace
else or your children. And that becomes isolating and not not a happy
situation. Those that immigrate in a unit. Sometimes they regret, you
know, I look back sometimes and, you know, as I stayed with
gred elf, could have done this or could have done that, you know, for
example, with with the revolution in Portugal, and I was very familiar
with a lot of the people that were part of the movement and
later on depends on the Azores and all that, you know, what role could I
have played, and would so you go through that fantasy of a little bit.
But other than that, no, I don't I don't regret it
because it allowed me to do my studies and without putting my dad and any
financial difficulties.
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Speaker 1: Right. So in I think he kind of already answered this
question. So as soon as you arrived, you you finished you enrolled in
high school.
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Speaker 2: As soon as.
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Speaker 1: and graduated.
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Speaker 2: right.
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Speaker 1: And then you were able to work on the weekends you helped your
uncle out on the radio. So I was reading José that you've lived in a few
cities in the US or mainly Nevada and California for.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: Throughout your life. So what took you to these these cities
these places?
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Speaker 2: It was not immigration. It was it was the due to work. I
worked and I was in San Rafael and then lived in Tiburon for a while. And
then when I joined the because I worked with San Jose
State University for a while. And then when I, which was great work, I
enjoyed it very much. But an aside here, I found that at the university,
there were either either you have a PhD and you really
have a very smart and you have an opinion or otherwise shut up because
you don't have a PhD. And so I said, No, I'm not staying here. So I
joined the Hertz Corporation. And my first assignment was out
in LA. So I moved to Valencia, LA. And my second assignment was in, in
Las Vegas, so I moved to Las Vegas and back came back and bought a house
in San Mateo and then and we bought another house in
Belmont just just a and but that was worth worth dictated.
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Speaker 1: And you had said Belmont, where exactly is is?
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Speaker 2: It's next to San Mateo.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so right here in west bay okay.
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Speaker 2: Nothing to do with the horses.
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Speaker 1: So, and then you kind of already answered this question. So
Portuguese radio, you said you started with your uncle?
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Speaker 2: Now he, he had started allready, he started this Portuguese
radio program, I think like in 55 in San Rafael, there was a radio
station in San Rafael KTIM, which at that time was also owned
y the local newspaper or the IJ Independent Journal. And remember that in
the 50s, when television showed up, when television showed up everywhere
was going to television so radio became like the
nwanted medium. So foreign language was a way for them to fill that time
get some income because everybody wants to advertise was on on on on
television, even though was black and white. So you start
orking on doing this program once a day, as you might think at that time
you choose, among other words change. At that time the program was
Colonia Portuguesa-Portuguese Colony. But the word Colonia
-colony became not the right word to use in the 70s. Right? Right. So
became a community. And he was very good amount only other third, third,
third grade education. But he was very entrepreneurial,
as a decent player, a Portuguese guitar and singer. So if he had no
records, he would just turn the mic and sing and talk and sing and I'm
going to do it. And then at that time, he got involved with
guy from the east coast, and they imported Portuguese movies and showed
in California. They would show it from his part was from Lincoln several
men all the way to Tulare about 11-11 years and you
were to go and rent a theater, we call fore wall you take the response
except for the projection because at that time was complicated with with
old projection. So when I came and join him and wa
starting with a program, then probably like 66 or so we joined with it
with a with a gentleman from the east coast and we start bringing in
Portuguese singer groups. So we were bringing four to fiv
groups a year also to do shows for a week seven shows in California. So
I was going to school full time and and then doing the show three hours a
day and doing.
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Speaker 1: Interesting, so you've been active in all things Portuguese
here in California. Why? Why not just become you're in America now and
like many other perhaps immigrants, Portuguese immigrants
is kind of not necessarily lose contact with your island or your family,
but culturally speaking, lose contact and just focus on say, America and
not focus so much on maintain Portuguese culture. So
why, why have you been as active as you are in California? It ports in
terms of Portuguese culture.
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Speaker 2: I think that was dictated by the fact that I was involved with
the radio program and the radio programs in those days and you're
centered to the whole community. I believe when we were
going out there from memory when we were doing the films and then as soon
as you send the invitations out, I think there were like 66 radio
programs in California. The furthest one south in Tijuana,
Mexico, and the farthest one in the north was in Sacramento. So with that
experience I got drawn into it very heavily and I was president of the
council and all that. So the Portuguese community became a an
obvious connecting avenue for me for the relationships and, and the
promotions and the things that would that I did. My wormet is not in
there. As as time went on, I got involved in other stuff
because example I I was one of the founders of the first soccer team at
culture Moran. I was personally I was president international students
Akash Moran, especially international students at San
Francisco State. So I did other things outside. But there's no question
that was a draw from from the Portuguese community because of my
involvement and no, I, I knew it the Portuguese Community as
close and as detailed as anybody else.
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Speaker 1: So, the next questions kind of a similar question, but as
Portuguese immigration to the US continues to lessen, dry up in a sense.
Is it worth focusing on trying to maintain a distinct
Portuguese American identity here in California? Why?
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Speaker 2: I don't I don't know what identity means. Because if you mean,
the cultural aspect, yes, I think it's an enrichment that needs to to
stay. But there are some but there are some changes that
have to occur too. First of all the the the cultural identity that
existed, it was very much driven by the immigration that existed at that
time where people came and there, they missed the soccer
games and they missed this and they missed that. And they were willing to
do the labor work that takes to get all these things going. So they
didn't mind if they became President of the hall, that
they would come and serve the Supers and clean the next day and blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah. The se but they're also rare to see that and
especially his identity is not there was not a lot of
cultural content to it. There were traditional content. Because you
couldn't bring people say, and that's why maybe we didn't do a very good
job in preserving the language. Because most the people
that when they arrived, they came they had there four year of education,
the kids went to school, they had to go to work and all that they weren't
they, you know, they probably couldn't even teach
that to children very much Portuguese. And it just fell by the wayside.
It was not it was not that important for them. But, but the traditions
like the Holy Ghost, and all that is, it's very
important. I think that's a presence that not to not to overemphasize,
because, as I said, right now, one of the difficulties they're having, we
are having with with this things is that the lack of
the volunteer work to manage these the halls associations. I mean, we
have we have organization in San Jose, that they've been without
directors for three, four months because nobody wants to step up.
But on the other hand, not too many people have the time to that to go
there every day, because they opened the door and somebody needs to be
there and to say, because we have we have a dichotomy and
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appreciated it's very interesting and I don't quite never understood.
Even even when promo radio. I mean, I just bought a radio when we would
promote dances like is up the street, and we would charge
$1 for admission. And today, people are very proud that they can they can
now go to dinner at the Portuguese hall for Super for free, right? But
part of that is because the directors work their tails
off their wives and everybody else to clean the place and set it up and
cook rather than say, okay, we're going to pay $5 and we're going to have
a crude that can do this. We have not transitioned
that I think that's part of the of the problem going on right now. So we
need to bring that that thing. The other one is, I have I'm of the belief
that if we look at the push community of the 70s,
there were better, more efficient bridges between the academia, academia
and the community. I mean, if during those days if I walked into the
ideas with Dr. Center or my own DS, people knew them. We
don't have that we will become much more separated. I don't know all the
reasons or why why not. So if we look at what other cultural events we
doing, we all do now. So we could I think the community
needs to migrate a little bit from Okay, we have enough food and we have
enough dancers and all that let's pay for the thing and to something that
the kid the new generation can attach to it. They
they cannot survive as a community just because they have super they
gotta be more to it. But it's it's getting difficult. I I don't know
where to start because in one way and what I've observed is
you have people working very hard at the halls that the associations that
the Tony goes fraternity, whatever the fraternities, but on the other
end, they're not open enough to open the doors to the
new ideas have the younger ones to come in and that say and so you you
kind of you were creating like a parallel.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah and that's, that's very disturbing.
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Speaker 1: But do you feel that this is perhaps a natural occurrence,
inevitable occurrence because as fewer for example, Portuguese people
immigrate and the ones who are here are now second
generation, third, fourth generation fifth generation, naturally, they
become even more and more Americanized and then slowly lose. I mean,
that's just kind of an inevitable consequence, and a
massively uphill battle that we have to massive uphill battle that we're
fighting.
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Speaker 2: Right
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Speaker 1: Perhaps
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Speaker 1: You know, and maybe just played up playing doubles advocation.
Perhaps it's not our energy is spent, perhaps maybe doing other things as
opposed to preserving some of these cultural
aspects?
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Speaker 2: It is.
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 1: So
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Speaker 2: No, you gave the right. I mean, I'm still flabbergasted that
we spend so much energy on the Oakland A's of Portuguese night and we
cannot get enough people to, to serve in a board of oligo
sign.
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Speaker 1: So I'm sorry. You said we get a lot of people for Oakland A's
right Portuguese heritage tonight San Jose Earthquakes, right. But we
can't get the same amount for a festa speed suns.
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Speaker 2: Correct. And I don't see the connection. The Oakland A's or
the the earthquakes with the Portuguese, just because you're a cash call
that says you know, you know, that there's a but I think
it's the level of commitment. It's a fun thing to do. Right? You go see
the game you got there and you know, and you wave your cash or whatever
it is and and the people, when when when I look from the
outside to the festa, it's a very tough grinding, we force everywhere
you're to, and it should be able to lighten it up. They're going to be
they're going to be a we're going to be easy to do it. So
that because I think that it would not and I think we got to be careful
about this, you brought it up, you're right on, I think would be would be
an error, if if the young third or fourth generation
did not connect to the Americans, because that's what they have to live,
survive, thrive, grow their families and make the contributions, right.
It's just if there were things in the back there and
the cultural aspect that would enrich them, that they could participate.
And again, it doesn't mean just food It could be a symposiums it could be
whatever it is. That would that would connect a
little more and but right now it's it's very difficult.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: It's very difficult it's everywhere it's not I'm sure that
valley is you have a lot of that. I mean we sitting across from an
organization which is very different because of the Benfica I
understand that there were like three or four months they couldn't
couldn't have enough people to form to form a board.
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Speaker 1: couple years ago right?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So that that the see but but if you talk to your
grandfather or to your father, your grandfather, soccer was not something
in his in his background. Now, soccer did not exist. I mean,
people go back into Look, if you look at, for example, a big team and
here's what faials fort. They still spell faial the English. We with a
why Because that's what the British brought the thing,
right? So we so football, soccer was not a sport. That was the we didn't
play in Lomba da maia. For two reasons, number one was not known. The
ball was expensive, but the other one nobody's gonna give
you that much land for you to go play. Okay, that much land could feed
the family.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Right now we had much more it was Volleyball because people
will get to the backyard, put a net and play volleyball in a very small
space, volleyball with it. And only later on when I was
in school and was probably 12 or 14. We start playing football soccer in
Lomba da maia, we will take the field where they they put the trash for
the wheat and they cannot cultivate right we would go
clean it up. And then maybe we should want to hump and pile them. And we
play soccer there and older people will come and watch us play because it
was It was finally started something. But it was your
when your grandfather would not. That wouldn't suck. It didn't mean
anything to him.
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Speaker 1: Right. And that's true, it's a it's it's, it seems like with
at least the the older immigrants compared to the newer immigrants in
football it's
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Speaker 2: No. And that's why we then we got I mean, who ever heard
pulling Casa De Sica? It's very hard to survive because you have to
attached to the team, right. But thePortuguese athletic
club or other in the valley there's a few of them because there was
new immigrant needs. They needed the soccer thing. This was part of
tradition. That things changed.
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Speaker 1: So you said Comp da paya?
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Speaker 2: Comp da palha.
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Speaker 1: Oh Okay, palha.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, straw.
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Speaker 1: Yeah okay, all right Interesting. So this is kind of a
123
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of
be
the
the
Speaker 2: By the way interesting, that Lomba da maia that's not to the
interview. Now, friend of mine. Which you live in United states and was
my first grade teacher United States, he went back, I
was just broken dude when he was there. And he gave a field and made a
football field for Lomba da maia, they had a team and now they have a
field and no team that that shows that the people go to
watch the game someplace else. So they having the same disease.
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Speaker 1: So, like I've said before, you've been committed to preserving
Portuguese heritage here in the US. So why do you feel you've been more
committed to this belief than say other Portuguese
immigrant appears? So I guess what makes you different than say, you
know, some of my family members who you know great, hardworking people,
just like all the others, but as far as their commitment to
the preservation of Portuguese American culture, you've definitely stand
out and other peers too, but compared to many others, So what is it about
you, for example, that's, you know, has a major that
makes you different?
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Speaker 2: Well, I think there were a couple of things. One is personal
interest. I mean, I remember being 10-11 years old and we used to have
two cheese factories in in in a village. And one of them
close down. And they're those old accounting books, with columns, and he
gave it to me. And so I would go to the subsequent tables to see and I
would sit there and write it down. Or I will talk to
older people and find out the street because like, this lady down the
street, telling me about her family in recalling, when the French
disembarked in the Azores and marched up Lomba da maia and
people were hiding because they didn't know where it was. So I will I
have an interest in things that I must say the fact that I was involved
with a radio in a program and made me even closer to it.
And of course, coming with with from having that issue and pointed out, I
have a larger cultural baggage than most people do with education when it
was not there. So I felt an obligation to share as
much as I could and like even today when I do certain things, like if I
do, you know, power of attorney, because I could do both languages, what
the hell I can do this very quickly. And so, when you
were in that position, you almost get pushed to because why not? I not to
do it. It's no, no skin off my teeth, you know, type of thing. And so the
the last one is that even though I wasn't a laborer,
and in a valley or here, but I appreciate it very much the work because I
saw with my oldest uncle, which had the dairy in Turlock, the work ethic,
that commitment that drive, knowing of the
limitations but not let them put on. So that was a way that they were
able to conquer this limitations at great personal sacrifice, right. I
remember this friend of mine telling about my uncle,
because him my dad and to visco they were the four strongest men in the
village and they were known, okay. He said, Your uncle in Turlock back in
the 40s or 30s, they use to plow with the horses
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right? Because the water would come a certain time it was not like today
you have on demand and he said he would get the first team in and as long
as it was he would change team but he was working a
day or a night or two. They never stopped. He would just change the
horses. When you see people like that, I mean my uncle's hands. It were
the biggest things I've ever seen than anybody because you
can see so I had an appreciation very much for for them because I came
from that background. I Lomba da maia, I've in my family. Yeah, as I
said, we all basic former people. So when I came over here
to do things that would highlight capture, like the purchase as
publications, that's why I was interested in a book of the Holy Ghost and
and because that history to me is very important is something
that your children can read sometime later and still mean something that
that will disappear, unfortunately, unfortunately, but but, but that
history will stays, and will give them I think, some way
to understand your grandfather, because then things will be so different
that they will be able to see that the conditions that these people
survived. And so, these things around my life made me
really want to participate and, and do what I could to, to help. You
know, and then I'll give this to under there's a bunch of other things
that may no I did for for other things. You know, when I was
president of YDS Council, I was chairman of the board of the Portuguese
Athletic Club and, you know, things that I participated because it was
was the thing to do. Well, I was the vice president of
the Portuguese Athletic Club when Athletic Club when we start doing the
the conferences, and we used to have a very structured series of lectures
during the year by the top from George Senea to Mion
dier to work on subjects that we will dramatically address and because we
thought there was a way to bring that forth and let people know that
there were some cultural history and content that was
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important to pass on. So that attracted me.
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Speaker 1: So, got more questions real quick. So, in the past 60 years,
how has the Portuguese community here in California changed your opinion?
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Speaker 2: The best 60 years of 6
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Speaker 1: 50 or 60 years?
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Speaker 2: Oh boy. changed I think that first of all, one thing that I
could use you pointed out, there's no new immigration. Okay, that's
obvious. And, but then with with the new generation being
born here, you see the diffusion, where we don't have the concentration.
For example, this area we are here right now. If you were here in the 50s
and 60s on the 60s and the 70s, if you went from here
down upon the five wounds and all that area there was all Portuguese
housing everybody on the streets, you turn right or left, there will be
all Portuguese couples. Now they've moved. First of all,
they moved to the white road because it was a new houses and now they
move to the mountains and so that the Portuguese community in the next 50
years has become spread out and probably without a lack
of an area where there is such a concentration. You know, I noticed say
that Modesto is, as you know, it, hopefully they'll be able to maintain
it. But let's see what happens where the time goes on
the size of the cities. So the committee is the second generation as
gotten integrated into the American system, the jobs, the the marriages,
and then people start moving to other places. The second
part is the loss of that population and radio programs which was much
maintained it. I don't think it's just one view. I don't think that
people today have given the radio programs what they do. Yeah,
it's true that you have a newspaper and you have a record and keep it
this way. But remember the radio programs that time at, according to the
arbitrary numbers 200,000 listeners. I remember just an
example, when there was the, the earthquake in Saint George 69 I believe
we were on the air in the we haven't completed the first half hour. We
already had over $60,000 raised. That's a lot of money
in today's dollars. This is the days that, you know, people would notice
George Miller would have thousands of people so that as the few speakers
that generation has disappeared, the new one become
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involved with something else in their lives. And so that I don't know if
I am looking forward Not the strength, but the visibility. I think it's
diminished.
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Speaker 1: Okay and how, in the past six years how have the Azores
changed? I know you haven't been living there but I know.
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Speaker 2: Big time big time I think that I mean, the change from from
the dictatorship was huge. And I think that the after they went through
that internal battle with with the independence and all
that the autonomy even though there's a lot to be desired, as created
among them an identity much stronger. That maybe would existed what what
has not changed for me and the Azore is people are still
battle the lack of job opportunities. I'm not sure if the government can
do or not do something about it. And and you see now the drifting of, of
the population towards the cities. I mean, Punta
Delgada now as what 69,000 people el beda grant as more population and
then faial that tells you little town. I mean sunshore's on to 9000
people so that eco the lack of economic opportunity,
something that worries me about it. But it has changed. The other hand,
on the positive side, the opportunity to reach to schools is tremendous
economics there's a lot better than than there were. The
there's a knock look that people have positive that I think they weren't
able to get to do something that they couldn't do the old days. I mean,
remember that? When I grew up in the Azores was you
couldn't go to the mainland without having a passport.
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Speaker 1: Really?
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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You couldn't get in a ship that says I'm going to go
to Lisbon. So, I couldn't go from Rome. I couldn't go from something else
to say that says I'm going to move.
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Speaker 1: So even to go from island Island?
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Speaker 2: Yes, yet. Yeah, you can you have to have documentation.
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Speaker 1: Well, the same document that would you would need to go from
Portugal to United States would be the same document you would need to go
from?
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Speaker 2: The passport. But it was not able to. Yeah, it was a I don't
think it was a full passport. I think it was like a card or something
that the government gave or the local institution, but
because you take Terseda with the opening of the base, if they don't do
it that there are people, hundreds more people showing up, because they
thought they were going to get jobs at the base. So that
became kind of protectorate. Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Interesting. So, how do you like how do you feel about the
Portuguese community, the future of the Portuguese community here in
California?
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Speaker 2: I feel I feel fine. I just, we have to realize it's going to
be different. We have to realize that it might involve less food meaning
the Holy Ghost might might might have to rethink this,
this what they're doing. It might involve more of a communication that
that do the thing that I am not able to wrap my head around, is that
where that content is going to come from? Because, Yeah,
true. I can send things very quickly by whatever phone, whatever
instrument, but I still have to have an audience that's willing to listen
to it or read it in some way to do the, and I'm not sure
because right now, the Potuguese community, it's really even though if we
call the Portuguese Community in California, it's really the Portuguese
community of every city. There it is not, you know, if
we think about, we don't have a board that represents the Potuguese
Community of California. We don't.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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01:00:50,990 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 2: We have the Portuguese community of San Jose and Chowchilla
and Oakland and all that and they interact because they get invited to
participate in natural festas, but it's not like we have
this umbrella that exists. I fear that unless the younger generation,
third generation, whatever you want to call them, finds a way to organize
themselves to reach out to that to the other people in
there we might be in a few years, a lot poor in some of the things we
have now, because they don't like they will start being sold or I mean,
I'm from the generation that the Portuguese Hall in San
Rafael was sold, because it was done to six members and this is 19
because I used to work there, going to school I could clean that hall for
a month for $60.
1
00:00:01,590 --> 00:00:02,700
Speaker 2: Looking at every day
2
00:00:03,030 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah
3
00:00:04,890 --> 00:02:01,500
Speaker 2: and and I think it was like 68 or so that we're down to six
members. Nobody that and then there was no interest. So I think that's,
that's what I fear that which is really missing. It has
become a blob and integrating the whole thing and which is harder to
understand than the other because on the other hand, you hear at least we
hear from outside, that there's so many things going on
in a Chinese community in the 70s going on in a Mexican communities, I
mean, going other communities. You hear about it, I don't know if they're
doing more or not, I just don't know. But that you hear
a lot about other things. And because we have a tremendous
infrastructure. We have a tremendous infrastructure, but we have not done
we have not done as well, as we should. Example: The Portuguese
program at San Jose State started, God I was still at the portion
Athletic club. They organized bingo games to support the program. Because
the people the person the first teacher was a nun from the
Portuguese school itself, I won't. And here we are just many years later,
and we still have a program is struggling that's not part of the budget.
That's not you know, people don't don't question if
they're going to teach French one on one for sure to do. So I think that
we have we have something that I don't know quite one understand, but I
don't know exactly what to do about it. Right now. I'm
concerned.
4
00:02:02,590 --> 00:02:11,110
Speaker 1: On the flip side, speaking of college at Fresno State, we're
hoping by the end of the year to have a a minor.
5
00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:12,370
Speaker 2: oh, then
6
00:02:12,000 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 1: About Portuguese, which is about what they have here at San
Jose State minor, but Fresno State we never had a minor. Not even that we
just had a couple of classes Portuguese one, Portuguese
two and that was it taught by one person. And hopefully we so we have
three people there now, you know Dennis one. They just hired somebody, a
lady from Portugal who got her PhD on the East Coast,
United States and the university there in Portuguese studies. And I
forget to the lady who was there before who was there who's who's been
there for the past 10-15 years. So hopefully, we could get a
Portuguese minor at least most of us can minor in Portuguese which is
something we've never had before at Fresno State so so it's good
7
00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:14,460
Speaker 2: no, it's great but the thing now we're going to migrate is
that we're gonna migrate but flat is paying for it to where it's part of
the budget
8
00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: right
9
00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:59,370
Speaker 2: otherwise because you know when flood comes from right i mean
no flood exists because of Terseda of the bus, they don't explain it very
well but flood is not exactly a gift from Lisbon.
Flood exists because from the sound that that as part of the of the deal
that the turn the bass into NATO and all that there's a fellow of the
American government that gives us a ton of, of cultural
minimalistic number money. And that's, that's the flattener.
10
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Speaker 1: Yeah
11
00:04:03,710 --> 00:05:53,420
Speaker 2: yeah, it's not just, you know, the goodness of my heart,
whatever it is, there was a reason. And I'm glad investing in some
things, but sometimes you got to be where that's what, that's why
the Portuguese community is needed to say, Okay, now this becomes part of
the budget of San Jose of Stanford, Fresno State. There'll be a minor and
they'll be funded every year and all that so it gets
a life of its own. There. And we add another example. We have a very good
Heather's a very good group of Portuguese politicians in Congress and a
net but I don't think we have been very effective in
using them. We have not been very effective. We know it's nice. We got a
number we've got a resolution Portuguese National Day. You know, or
you're somebody made a birthday, but that's not what makes
the program no moment. So like, right now I because I know they're doing
again, the in San Jose that the founder zone is already, you know,
organizing the digitally the image trying to raise money
again for the program. So they don't have enough money to keep the
program alive. So I think we have that's the that's what I think that I'm
worried about the pushes humanity is that okay, so some of
the young generation does not want to belong. They may take the
Chowchilla for example and say with a hall, but then then why are we
spending so much time with the Oakland A's when I'm looking at
Fresno State that we should not be working on how to get that program as
part of the budget,
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Speaker 1: Right, one is fun and the other, not according to me, but one
is fun.
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Speaker 2: Yeah
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00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:14,180
Speaker 1: and the other is academic, and perhaps not as exciting. I
completely disagree with that. But I think that perhaps might be maybe
the attitude of self perhaps I'm not.
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00:06:14,960 --> 00:07:52,670
Speaker 2: I don't have any reason to doubt that right? Because it seemed
like fun to me. But a minor in Portuguese at Fresno State is something
that has a legs of its own that creates that and, and,
and even if I don't take a minute, if your, your your child, my God, soon
you'll be in school anyway. You know, that goes. If they go over there
and you want to take one or two classes, because you
know, you don't speak with Portuguese where they want to hold one. This
you know, you can send them there and you know, you're going to get
something. It's something that stays with them. And there's
lots of the possibilities and you've you've taught this and yourself. I
know the feeling you're in is still today Portuguese is the biggest
language in South America. You know, I mean, we get so
blinded because Mexico is so close. So there's there's, there's an
economic power to it too. But right now we have a minor we have a program
at UCLA. And that time was a doctor, my own dear. Hey,
somebody that did a lot is not doing too well, by the way. He is almost
blind now. And then we had Dr. Center at Santa Barbara. Yeah. Which I
don't think there's much Portuguese left there now. And a
Portuguese that's left as far as employment is because they got a grant
from Florida or they got a grant from cowboys and all that. But that's
like you're going to random taking dinner, but that
doesn't know.
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00:07:52,670 --> 00:07:52,970
Speaker 1: Sustainable.
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00:07:52,990 --> 00:08:37,420
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like the old Chinese teaching men how to fish
and it gives you a glimpse at right. I hope that's the thing. We can,
that's the thing I, sorry the frustration, my voice that I
see that all these people that we have that are so good with the social
media and all that I don't understand anything about it. That that's what
I think the focus should be how do I make this
politician on that started getting the Fresno State now that we got the
money to start running to put the foundation on it and build this out in
some way. And, you know, I mean, the example you have
in a valley with, with with the High School of el mar and a couple others
it's it's just not standing.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Doesn't exist up here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah
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Speaker 2: Do you know in San Jose, we've never done anything like that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a diversion program.
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Speaker 2: Yeah
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00:08:45,260 --> 00:08:45,980
Speaker 1: Elementary school.
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Speaker 2: And then then, now we have high school right to the five ones.
But I don't think there's a Portuguese element to it.
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Speaker 1: No?
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Speaker 2: No. So I think that's, that's that's some that's a mistake.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Do I think we're out of time for the interview? Is there
anything else you'd like to say or?
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Speaker 2: No I'm excited that not I'm honored than flabbergasted that
I'm being interviewed because I know that you will be finding people a
lot more to say that but I read your your thing I'm I'm
very excited as it is that the possibility that these things will be
recorded and that they are and be online and could be research later on.
Because you probably too young for you, but I look now
back testing they even existed but I have an uncle for you. But he was
married to my aunt he was in California at the turn. of the 19th century,
and he was a shoe Porter in Nevada. I think sometimes
what a great phone would have been to interview that men and ask him what
they did, or they did, because they would go into some of those wagon
type, basket type. And we have, you know, what a way to
to learn, you know, and there are a lot of people in the community that
that you will come across that these stories I think will be valuable
years from now for people to understand the the work that
went into surviving in this environment because you've been back in as
well as you know, as good as it is. Now, there's still a big difference
between the United States in technologies and all this.
So you can imagine somebody coming from something else to say to and
arrived over here. And the only thing they ever had was a hole and a
machete. And now he's looking at cows with electricity. And
you know, I mean, I lived here I lived longer than my we had no
electricity. My house had running water because we were located in the
right place and all that. But Muslim Muslim village are no
running water. There are no sewage lines. So I can imagine people
arriving here. And these people were able to and as you know them, now
Valley, to Stephen start dairies. But then, this is the stories
I hope that gets conveyed and the recordings we'll be doing. We were
doing the book on the Portuguese and agricultural and our graves. We
interviewed one gentleman, When interviewed, that had been a
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manager of a bank upgrading in a valley. And he tells the story that this
guy from the Azores wanted to borrow money to start his dairy. So So his
friends that go with you, and we have to, you know,
explain the plan, what are you going to do and all that? And so, one
speaks obviously no English almost. And so when is explained to the bank
manager? That Okay, we don't have the the business plan,
but we would like to the guy said, Wait a minute, wait a minute. I've
been a bank manager just before the depression. There's never been a
Portuguese default.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: What would you think I would be concerned about it, that tells
more that tells more than any statues, they're going to build around that
99 because that is the character that build it.
That's why it's so much fun working with some of the Portuguese
community. These is because you meet these people. Guess the American
expression is the salt of the earth. They are, can imagine being
in a bank and be totally comfortable because it's Portuguese. Is that
loan have you gonna pay?
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Speaker 1: Right, yeah.
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Speaker 2: I mean, what else can you say?
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's, I think that's why these stories become
important. Because when you when your children your windshield and look
into it, they will see is not going to they're not gonna
modify them. Don't take me wrong. It's just a sense of pride and also to
understand your grandfather and maybe understand you because you are the
bridge generation. So you are unique in that you can
see both sides. I'm sure that you have friends now that you don't it's
like I still mess with that old fashioned stuff. I've done my god I'm so
sorry about blah, blah, blah, because I have it in the
family over here, you know, and it's true to some old fashion but there
are some qualities that's not throw the baby out with a water.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: That's the point.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: And hopefully, that's, that's my hope for for this type of
project is that it gets generated and into an especially nowadays people
can access everything. Maybe we'll get transcribed and
people can pick up whatever they want. Because you're gonna find
tremendous example I'm telling you doing some of these books,
interviewing some of the people I mean, I remember when we were doing the
one of the book was already kosher. We came upon a gentleman, I think,
from Los Banos. That time he had he had subscribed like 72 powers when he
called them. When you immigrate, you have to bigger
until guarantors head on 72 people. That's putting your business at risk.
So yeah, this is people who didn't know. Just a friend because you asked
them a I look at my, my website, the family, the
father and a mother came there were nine children. The highest grade was
fourth education. The oldest one was 18. I think it was 18 or 17. You
went to, to a dairy. What else is new, right? you've ever
been to one race?
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Speaker 1: Yes
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Speaker 2: We did the lighthouse.
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Speaker 1: Yes
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Speaker 2: That dairy right there.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
46
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Speaker 2: That's what that's what he was milking.
47
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a few dairies around them. That's very
interesting and strange to see.
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Speaker 2: because that that land was owned by people from New York, and
they live in San Francisco and spend more than they could afford. So they
divided all that and is solid and plot the first one
It's a wrench as the noon wrench from some shores from for most life and
then see wrenches also from the brother. And it was very controversial
because that was the first time they saw that the
Portuguese they didn't want to sell to Portuguese, it was only two Irish.
So it was a very touching go but but detail is is is my father in law
there raises family and then between his children and
grandchildren only they all very well themselves. Now we have five
masters already and seven ba and Sampson score that's something that's a
monument that's that's, that's the things we forgot to look
at the community and said what comes out it. That's the thing that the,
the second fourth generation needs to look at and say, man, this it means
something. Because that occurred because the work
ethic of that man, the copper, and the commitment and the support that
they have for their children, even when they had very low, you know. I'm
sure I get excited.
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Speaker 1: No, no, that's great.
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Speaker 2: So that's it.
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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
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Speaker 2: You're very welcome.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: I'll give this to you. This is a resume and then this is a
bio. I don't know what I did this for has a bunch of things that I did or
none of them do. It's more complete than the one I
answer your questions.
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Speaker 1: Perfect.