Knapp, B. Franklin, 1987 Leon S. Peters Distinguished Service Award recipient
Item
Title
Knapp, B. Franklin, 1987 Leon S. Peters Distinguished Service Award recipient
Description
Talks about being born in Seattle and raised in Fresno, attending Fresno High School, swimming competitively in high school, serving in the Air Force, working for Shell Oil Company, and joining his father's insurance company, Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton. He discusses Fresno's development and future and talks about his friendship with Leon S. Peters and receiving the Leon S. Peters Distinguished Service Award.
Creator
Knapp, B. Franklin
Mehas, Dr. Peter G.
Relation
Leon S. Peters Legacy Collection
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2000
Format
Microsoft word 2003 document, 6 pages
Identifier
SCMS_lspl_00021
extracted text
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, we're here today with Franklin Knapp, clearly a
pillar of the Fresno community and a distinguished recipient of the Leon S
Peters Award. So Frank, for the record, would you state your name, place of
birth and age?
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, well first, I just love your introduction. It sure makes
me feel a lot better. Franklin Knapp, and I was born in 1915 in Seattle,
Washington. So I'm not even a native of California; I've only been here since
1921.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I was absolutely fascinated by your biography. Your
stint in the Air Force -- boy, you've flown about every plane that there is to
fly. And your time at Fresno State. So what we wanna chat about, what we want
for future generations -- for not only the students who grow up in the Fresno
area, but also the business community -- to know, Frank, Franklin Knapp as a
person. Where did you grow up? And I know you came to Fresno in the '30s, and I
know you're quite -- you were quite a swimmer and... head yell leader out at
Fresno State. So tell us a little bit about your growing up.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I came here in 1921, went to... school... here in
Fresno, grammar school. Then junior high school, of course, at Longfellow. Then
Fresno High School.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Warrior.
>>Franklin Knapp: Ah yes, I was a Warrior. Lived over on Fourth Street, and El
Monte, which is fairly close to Roosevelt. Roosevelt wasn't built, so I had to
go to Fresno High and took the streetcar. In those days, we had a streetcar and
I took a streetcar to Fresno High. Then from there, I went to one year junior
college at Ontario, California. Then transferred up to Fresno State and spent
four years there and finally graduated.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: You've had a marvelous background of jobs as I looked at
in your youth. And of course, the firm that you eventually owned and retired
from is notorious for its success throughout the Central Valley. But I noticed
you had a background in swimming as well. How did you get involved in swimming?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I really don't know. I guess because I was small, always
very small -- in fact, when I went into the tenth grade in high school, I only
weighed 78 pounds. And so I couldn't really participate in football, basketball
or any of the other sports. I guess I took up swimming because I could compete
in that. And I enjoyed it very much. I learned to swim when I was four years old
in a canal here, right off of Belmont. Belmont and -- near Belmont and Van Ness,
the canal there. That's -- we used to call that the Fresno beach, and that's
where I learned to swim. And then after doing competitive swimming, then
afterwards why I kept on with the swimming, on officiating and starting the
first swimming meet here in Fresno and talked the Fresno Bee into sponsoring it,
which always helps.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, there have been many a young swimmer who remember
you starting them off and what you contributed. And I guess that's all part of
why you were the recipient of this most incredible, prestigious award -- the
Leon S. Peters Award -- because it not only acknowledges the success that you
had in business, but more importantly, what you gave to the community. It's a
community service award. What do you feel that you got started on giving back to
the community? What motivated you to do that?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't really know. I think we are -- all of us are
motivated in certain ways, but we don't know why. I've always been motivated to
civic work and civic duties and giving back some things. It's one of the reasons
I think I never played golf. Golf's a great game -- I understand it, I watch it
on television -- but I never had time, because my family and the civic work and
my business always took up all my time. Now, I thoroughly enjoyed giving, as you
say, giving back. I don't think it was giving back; it was doing what I wanted
to do, and doing it for Fresno. This is my town. This is my community. It's
going to go some place. It's right at the edge of moving forward now, if our
politicians would stick to their business instead of like, who cares about
talking about the flag? What has that got to do with Fresno? Now they're gonna
spend time in city council talking about that and deciding whether they're gonna
wave the flag or their gonna burn it. And it has nothing to do with Fresno. And
they're just wasting their time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well certainly, there are some people who talk about the
flag, and you did more than talk about it. I was fascinated by your stint in the
Air Force. You actually had your pilot's license before you went into the Air
Force. I noticed that -- before you went down to San Diego.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yes. Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: That was interesting.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I learned to fly in 1939 and then when -- just before
war came on, while I was still single, and I didn't wave the flag. The draft was
coming up! Believe me! They either get in that darn foot army, or -- and since I
could fly an airplane, I'd much rather be up there. So I joined the air corps,
and then while I was in the service, why, war broke out. So don't tell me I
waved the flag. I didn't wanna get into the foot soldiers' stuff [inaudible].
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, that was interesting because you met your wife, but
apparently the Air Force had a regulation that you couldn't be married and go
into the Air Force. And you also had to be a college, college person.
>>Franklin Knapp: That's right. When I went in, why, you couldn't be married.
Now, my wife and I were planning to be married. We've been going together eight
years. And also, you had to have a college education, and you couldn't be over
26 plus a few days. Well, I was right at the edge of the age thing. So we
couldn't get married and I did have a college education, so I got in. Then, soon
as war broke out, of course, they needed people. And all you had to do was to be
warm, basically, to get in.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs] Well, it was interesting. You worked for SKA
before the war, but then you went to work for Shell Oil Company for a brief
period of time.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yes, because when I applied for the air corps, I didn't
know when I was gonna get called up. So I closed down my insurance business and
went to work for Shell Oil, driving a truck, just on a temporary basis until I
was called up, which I was called up in October.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Tell us a little bit about SKA. It's had an incredible
history here in this valley, and certainly your family initiated the start of
the program and now you and your brother, for years have made it what it is.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, SKA -- or Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton actually, it was –
B.F. Shepherd started in business with a partner back in 1886. And then it
became B.F. Shepherd Company, and Cleve Appleton and my father, B.F. Knapp,
started insurance business in 1921 here. In 1924, they merged the two things to
make Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton. And then it went on and my dad passed away in
1953, and of course, Shep, Shepherd passed away in 1947. So gradually, I took
over, and then my brother came on in. He ended up handling the real estate and I
handled the insurance end. And then sold out here five years ago.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: And retired.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yeah, I'm retired, but I'm busy as a dickens.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure. You know, you've seen a lot from the time that
you've come to Fresno. A lot. You've seen this town change in so many, many
different ways. What have been some of your observations -- good and not so good
-- about the town, how it's developed, those things that in the early years that
you'd like us to still have? I know when I look across here and see the old
courthouse that used to be, or the old park, it's gone, and I get a bit of
nostalgia. What kind of changes have you noticed through the years with Fresno?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, most of the changes that I've seen, in my opinion, are
good. We've had some rough spots, and we're going to have more; however, I think
we're right on the edge of taking a leap forward. There's [clears throat] many
things that can be done if our city fathers start paying attention to doing
things rather than just running for office all the time. North of Divisadero,
you know they're talking about this lake downtown. Well, this -- 20 years ago, a
group of us met for a year, once a week for a year, and had a whole proposal of
a lake at the corner of Divisadero and H Street, and developing all of that area
with a tram coming downtown and the rest of it. And then, looking ahead, from
Divisadero to Belmont, if you'll go out there, you'll see nothing but houses
that are 70, 80 and 90 years old. That should all be reconstituted, redeveloped.
And instead of people moving out farther and farther and farther and letting the
core get rotten, move back in there, and then from there, why, the next one
would be from Belmont out. And just keep going this way. But -- and I'm going to
propose this again to the city, but I think that that's too far-looking for our
city council at the present time. Now, some of them are pretty good on the city
council.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, isn't it interesting how everything is cyclery
[inaudible], 'cause at one time when you mentioned taking the trolley car, and
the lake. There was a lake in downtown Fresno at one time. There was a trolley
car. And yet those -- and then we did away with them. And you're absolutely
right: when they city spreads out, we destroy valuable farmland, and we do erode
the core of the city, which is vital to our economy and our standard of living.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, and another thing that sort of -- and this, I guess, is
a basic philosophy of mine. Governmental agencies, and that includes school
districts too, do not have competition. When you don't have competition, who
cares how many people you hire? Who cares how many administrators you have? I'm
very happy to see that schools now are going to have some private schools to
compete with them. This is going to be good for everybody, including you.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure.
>>Franklin Knapp: Most of the other government things have no competition
whatsoever, and "Who cares? Let's just spend more money." In other words, the
way the government looks at things, "The more money we can get, that'll solve
everything. Let's just get more money."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I totally agree with you: the concept of competition
is good for everyone. The consumer benefits from competition, and the more we
can inject into the public sector the philosophy of competition, with charter
schools and other schools, it's good for everyone. I really do believe a rising
tide raises all boats. We have a lot of young people starting off in the Fresno
area, establishing businesses. What advice would you give to them, to a
youngster starting off, wanting to establish a business in the Fresno area? Any
words of wisdom you would pass onto them?
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know whether they're words of wisdom or not. I think
maybe some words of common sense. So many young people have been -- well, in the
past 20 to 25 years, our government has told people, "Don't worry; we are going
to take care of you." And so many young people have been brought up in this and
they believe that: that they don't have to work. In other words, maybe they have
to put in 30 hours, but I'm talking about working. And spending maybe 60 hours,
and building something instead of expecting the government or someone to take
care of you. This is what scares the dickens out of me, is the philosophy of so
many -- not only children, but their parents, because they have been taken care
of. And the government still continues to say, "Don't worry; we are going to
take care of you, so just -- you don't have to work very hard. You're gonna have
retirement, you're gonna have all of it." I don't think it's words of wisdom.
It's just common sense that if you're going to make something of yourself, you
have to spend some time at it. You have to have a little bit of luck, but that
luck will come if you work on it.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: When I look at the previous recipients of the Leon Peters
Award, Lew Eaton, Jim Mayer, Bob Duncan... all good friends of yours. And I
knew, of course, you knew Leon Peters so very, very well. What did it mean to be
named the recipient of this award?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, it was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me in my
life. And it will be the best thing that ever happened to me. Lee Peters, a
tremendous guy. Believe it or not, Lee loved the mountains and loved to fish.
And he fell off his horse every time we were up in the mountains. I take it
back: one time, he didn't, but the next year, he fell off twice.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: He had real short legs, and then he would put a big, thick
cushion underneath his saddle. So he was sitting right up on top. And then he
would go like this to push the thing out, and the horse would just go over like
this. Off he'd go. I tell you. And he just loved to fish. He would spend all day
fishing in a lake at 11,000 feet. Never get a strike, but just stay with it all
the time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, you know the mountains and fishing have been one of
your passions from the very early -- when they were talking about Lake Sequoia.
I was fascinated about that. When there was no road, you hiked up to Lake
Sequoia up in that area there.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah, years ago. And then with Huntington, you got a place
up in Huntington.
>>Franklin Knapp: I had a place in Huntington until three years ago, for 30some-odd years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the mountains.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah. Love the mountains.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the lakes.
>>Franklin Knapp: It's -- see, they're pure. People are starting to spoil them,
but there's still so much that they haven't been to, and they're just nice and
pure and it's a lovely place.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Not trying to rush things, because you have a lot of
living to do, but all of this as we think of our lives and what we want our
family and friends and people to remember us by, when the final chapter is
written in >>Franklin Knapp's life, what do you want people to say about you?
What do you want them to recall about you as a person?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't... I almost said, "I don't care." I do care,
I guess. But in other words, I am reasonably satisfied with my life, that I have
done a little bit of good on this earth. I know that I could've done more, but
at least I have done as much or more than the average person. And what people
think of me after I'm gone, frankly I don't care, 'cause I won't be around.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Unless there's reincarnation. I think I'm beginning to believe
in that, 'cause I've got so many things that I have not done. So I'm believing
in reincarnation. I gotta come back and do them.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, what were the -- finally, what were the
important things to you, what were the things that really mattered to you in
your life? I know you had a marvelous marriage until the untimely death of your
wife in 1986, I believe.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: But you were married 50...
>>Franklin Knapp: No, only married 46 years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: 46 years. 46 years.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes. No, I think -- of course, my family was number one. I’ve
got, we only had one daughter, but I've got two lovely granddaughters. Both of
them graduated from universities. And then I started a new life nine years ago,
got remarried, and as they say, I've just started a completely new life and
I'm... just doggone -- I almost said "damn lucky."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Really. I am damn lucky to have two marriages, or two lives
that are so great.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good. Well, being the educator that I am, you know,
sometimes you don't ask all the right questions on the test. So I'm gonna close
with an open-ended question. Anything that you wanna add that I think is
important to you, that you want future generations to be able to know, either
about your life in Fresno and your background?
>>Franklin Knapp: No, I don't think so.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good.
>>Franklin Knapp: Nope. Just go get 'em.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, it's been a privilege to have the opportunity
to have on historical record here Franklin Knapp. Clearly as we look at a
community, there are the pillars of the community that the community builds
upon. And one of those people has been Franklin Knapp. And so we are eternally
grateful for your contribution to the community. Thank you, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I've got one more thing, I think.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Okay.
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know. We may cut this out.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: No. Go ahead.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah. It's called The Bridge-Builder. And this is something
that I believe in [clears throat]. An old, old man going along the highway came
at the evening cold and gray, to a chasm, vast, deep and wide, through which was
flowing a sullen tide. The old man crossed in his twilight dim. That sullen
stream had no fears for him. But he turned when he reached the other side and
built a bridge to span the tide. "Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near. "You're
wasting strength in building here. Your journey will end with this ending day.
You never again must pass this way. You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide;
why build you a bridge at the evening tide?" The builder lifted his old, gray
head, "Good friend, in path I have come," he said, "there followeth after me
today a youth whose feet must pass this way. This chasm that has been naught to
me to that fair-haired may a pitfall be. He too must cross in the twilight dim.
Good friend, I am building this bridge for him." To me, that's the philosophy I
love.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Let's just end it with that. Thanks, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Okay.
==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====
pillar of the Fresno community and a distinguished recipient of the Leon S
Peters Award. So Frank, for the record, would you state your name, place of
birth and age?
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, well first, I just love your introduction. It sure makes
me feel a lot better. Franklin Knapp, and I was born in 1915 in Seattle,
Washington. So I'm not even a native of California; I've only been here since
1921.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I was absolutely fascinated by your biography. Your
stint in the Air Force -- boy, you've flown about every plane that there is to
fly. And your time at Fresno State. So what we wanna chat about, what we want
for future generations -- for not only the students who grow up in the Fresno
area, but also the business community -- to know, Frank, Franklin Knapp as a
person. Where did you grow up? And I know you came to Fresno in the '30s, and I
know you're quite -- you were quite a swimmer and... head yell leader out at
Fresno State. So tell us a little bit about your growing up.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I came here in 1921, went to... school... here in
Fresno, grammar school. Then junior high school, of course, at Longfellow. Then
Fresno High School.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Warrior.
>>Franklin Knapp: Ah yes, I was a Warrior. Lived over on Fourth Street, and El
Monte, which is fairly close to Roosevelt. Roosevelt wasn't built, so I had to
go to Fresno High and took the streetcar. In those days, we had a streetcar and
I took a streetcar to Fresno High. Then from there, I went to one year junior
college at Ontario, California. Then transferred up to Fresno State and spent
four years there and finally graduated.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: You've had a marvelous background of jobs as I looked at
in your youth. And of course, the firm that you eventually owned and retired
from is notorious for its success throughout the Central Valley. But I noticed
you had a background in swimming as well. How did you get involved in swimming?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I really don't know. I guess because I was small, always
very small -- in fact, when I went into the tenth grade in high school, I only
weighed 78 pounds. And so I couldn't really participate in football, basketball
or any of the other sports. I guess I took up swimming because I could compete
in that. And I enjoyed it very much. I learned to swim when I was four years old
in a canal here, right off of Belmont. Belmont and -- near Belmont and Van Ness,
the canal there. That's -- we used to call that the Fresno beach, and that's
where I learned to swim. And then after doing competitive swimming, then
afterwards why I kept on with the swimming, on officiating and starting the
first swimming meet here in Fresno and talked the Fresno Bee into sponsoring it,
which always helps.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, there have been many a young swimmer who remember
you starting them off and what you contributed. And I guess that's all part of
why you were the recipient of this most incredible, prestigious award -- the
Leon S. Peters Award -- because it not only acknowledges the success that you
had in business, but more importantly, what you gave to the community. It's a
community service award. What do you feel that you got started on giving back to
the community? What motivated you to do that?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't really know. I think we are -- all of us are
motivated in certain ways, but we don't know why. I've always been motivated to
civic work and civic duties and giving back some things. It's one of the reasons
I think I never played golf. Golf's a great game -- I understand it, I watch it
on television -- but I never had time, because my family and the civic work and
my business always took up all my time. Now, I thoroughly enjoyed giving, as you
say, giving back. I don't think it was giving back; it was doing what I wanted
to do, and doing it for Fresno. This is my town. This is my community. It's
going to go some place. It's right at the edge of moving forward now, if our
politicians would stick to their business instead of like, who cares about
talking about the flag? What has that got to do with Fresno? Now they're gonna
spend time in city council talking about that and deciding whether they're gonna
wave the flag or their gonna burn it. And it has nothing to do with Fresno. And
they're just wasting their time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well certainly, there are some people who talk about the
flag, and you did more than talk about it. I was fascinated by your stint in the
Air Force. You actually had your pilot's license before you went into the Air
Force. I noticed that -- before you went down to San Diego.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yes. Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: That was interesting.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I learned to fly in 1939 and then when -- just before
war came on, while I was still single, and I didn't wave the flag. The draft was
coming up! Believe me! They either get in that darn foot army, or -- and since I
could fly an airplane, I'd much rather be up there. So I joined the air corps,
and then while I was in the service, why, war broke out. So don't tell me I
waved the flag. I didn't wanna get into the foot soldiers' stuff [inaudible].
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, that was interesting because you met your wife, but
apparently the Air Force had a regulation that you couldn't be married and go
into the Air Force. And you also had to be a college, college person.
>>Franklin Knapp: That's right. When I went in, why, you couldn't be married.
Now, my wife and I were planning to be married. We've been going together eight
years. And also, you had to have a college education, and you couldn't be over
26 plus a few days. Well, I was right at the edge of the age thing. So we
couldn't get married and I did have a college education, so I got in. Then, soon
as war broke out, of course, they needed people. And all you had to do was to be
warm, basically, to get in.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs] Well, it was interesting. You worked for SKA
before the war, but then you went to work for Shell Oil Company for a brief
period of time.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yes, because when I applied for the air corps, I didn't
know when I was gonna get called up. So I closed down my insurance business and
went to work for Shell Oil, driving a truck, just on a temporary basis until I
was called up, which I was called up in October.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Tell us a little bit about SKA. It's had an incredible
history here in this valley, and certainly your family initiated the start of
the program and now you and your brother, for years have made it what it is.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, SKA -- or Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton actually, it was –
B.F. Shepherd started in business with a partner back in 1886. And then it
became B.F. Shepherd Company, and Cleve Appleton and my father, B.F. Knapp,
started insurance business in 1921 here. In 1924, they merged the two things to
make Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton. And then it went on and my dad passed away in
1953, and of course, Shep, Shepherd passed away in 1947. So gradually, I took
over, and then my brother came on in. He ended up handling the real estate and I
handled the insurance end. And then sold out here five years ago.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: And retired.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yeah, I'm retired, but I'm busy as a dickens.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure. You know, you've seen a lot from the time that
you've come to Fresno. A lot. You've seen this town change in so many, many
different ways. What have been some of your observations -- good and not so good
-- about the town, how it's developed, those things that in the early years that
you'd like us to still have? I know when I look across here and see the old
courthouse that used to be, or the old park, it's gone, and I get a bit of
nostalgia. What kind of changes have you noticed through the years with Fresno?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, most of the changes that I've seen, in my opinion, are
good. We've had some rough spots, and we're going to have more; however, I think
we're right on the edge of taking a leap forward. There's [clears throat] many
things that can be done if our city fathers start paying attention to doing
things rather than just running for office all the time. North of Divisadero,
you know they're talking about this lake downtown. Well, this -- 20 years ago, a
group of us met for a year, once a week for a year, and had a whole proposal of
a lake at the corner of Divisadero and H Street, and developing all of that area
with a tram coming downtown and the rest of it. And then, looking ahead, from
Divisadero to Belmont, if you'll go out there, you'll see nothing but houses
that are 70, 80 and 90 years old. That should all be reconstituted, redeveloped.
And instead of people moving out farther and farther and farther and letting the
core get rotten, move back in there, and then from there, why, the next one
would be from Belmont out. And just keep going this way. But -- and I'm going to
propose this again to the city, but I think that that's too far-looking for our
city council at the present time. Now, some of them are pretty good on the city
council.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, isn't it interesting how everything is cyclery
[inaudible], 'cause at one time when you mentioned taking the trolley car, and
the lake. There was a lake in downtown Fresno at one time. There was a trolley
car. And yet those -- and then we did away with them. And you're absolutely
right: when they city spreads out, we destroy valuable farmland, and we do erode
the core of the city, which is vital to our economy and our standard of living.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, and another thing that sort of -- and this, I guess, is
a basic philosophy of mine. Governmental agencies, and that includes school
districts too, do not have competition. When you don't have competition, who
cares how many people you hire? Who cares how many administrators you have? I'm
very happy to see that schools now are going to have some private schools to
compete with them. This is going to be good for everybody, including you.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure.
>>Franklin Knapp: Most of the other government things have no competition
whatsoever, and "Who cares? Let's just spend more money." In other words, the
way the government looks at things, "The more money we can get, that'll solve
everything. Let's just get more money."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I totally agree with you: the concept of competition
is good for everyone. The consumer benefits from competition, and the more we
can inject into the public sector the philosophy of competition, with charter
schools and other schools, it's good for everyone. I really do believe a rising
tide raises all boats. We have a lot of young people starting off in the Fresno
area, establishing businesses. What advice would you give to them, to a
youngster starting off, wanting to establish a business in the Fresno area? Any
words of wisdom you would pass onto them?
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know whether they're words of wisdom or not. I think
maybe some words of common sense. So many young people have been -- well, in the
past 20 to 25 years, our government has told people, "Don't worry; we are going
to take care of you." And so many young people have been brought up in this and
they believe that: that they don't have to work. In other words, maybe they have
to put in 30 hours, but I'm talking about working. And spending maybe 60 hours,
and building something instead of expecting the government or someone to take
care of you. This is what scares the dickens out of me, is the philosophy of so
many -- not only children, but their parents, because they have been taken care
of. And the government still continues to say, "Don't worry; we are going to
take care of you, so just -- you don't have to work very hard. You're gonna have
retirement, you're gonna have all of it." I don't think it's words of wisdom.
It's just common sense that if you're going to make something of yourself, you
have to spend some time at it. You have to have a little bit of luck, but that
luck will come if you work on it.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: When I look at the previous recipients of the Leon Peters
Award, Lew Eaton, Jim Mayer, Bob Duncan... all good friends of yours. And I
knew, of course, you knew Leon Peters so very, very well. What did it mean to be
named the recipient of this award?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, it was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me in my
life. And it will be the best thing that ever happened to me. Lee Peters, a
tremendous guy. Believe it or not, Lee loved the mountains and loved to fish.
And he fell off his horse every time we were up in the mountains. I take it
back: one time, he didn't, but the next year, he fell off twice.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: He had real short legs, and then he would put a big, thick
cushion underneath his saddle. So he was sitting right up on top. And then he
would go like this to push the thing out, and the horse would just go over like
this. Off he'd go. I tell you. And he just loved to fish. He would spend all day
fishing in a lake at 11,000 feet. Never get a strike, but just stay with it all
the time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, you know the mountains and fishing have been one of
your passions from the very early -- when they were talking about Lake Sequoia.
I was fascinated about that. When there was no road, you hiked up to Lake
Sequoia up in that area there.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah, years ago. And then with Huntington, you got a place
up in Huntington.
>>Franklin Knapp: I had a place in Huntington until three years ago, for 30some-odd years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the mountains.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah. Love the mountains.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the lakes.
>>Franklin Knapp: It's -- see, they're pure. People are starting to spoil them,
but there's still so much that they haven't been to, and they're just nice and
pure and it's a lovely place.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Not trying to rush things, because you have a lot of
living to do, but all of this as we think of our lives and what we want our
family and friends and people to remember us by, when the final chapter is
written in >>Franklin Knapp's life, what do you want people to say about you?
What do you want them to recall about you as a person?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't... I almost said, "I don't care." I do care,
I guess. But in other words, I am reasonably satisfied with my life, that I have
done a little bit of good on this earth. I know that I could've done more, but
at least I have done as much or more than the average person. And what people
think of me after I'm gone, frankly I don't care, 'cause I won't be around.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Unless there's reincarnation. I think I'm beginning to believe
in that, 'cause I've got so many things that I have not done. So I'm believing
in reincarnation. I gotta come back and do them.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, what were the -- finally, what were the
important things to you, what were the things that really mattered to you in
your life? I know you had a marvelous marriage until the untimely death of your
wife in 1986, I believe.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: But you were married 50...
>>Franklin Knapp: No, only married 46 years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: 46 years. 46 years.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes. No, I think -- of course, my family was number one. I’ve
got, we only had one daughter, but I've got two lovely granddaughters. Both of
them graduated from universities. And then I started a new life nine years ago,
got remarried, and as they say, I've just started a completely new life and
I'm... just doggone -- I almost said "damn lucky."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Really. I am damn lucky to have two marriages, or two lives
that are so great.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good. Well, being the educator that I am, you know,
sometimes you don't ask all the right questions on the test. So I'm gonna close
with an open-ended question. Anything that you wanna add that I think is
important to you, that you want future generations to be able to know, either
about your life in Fresno and your background?
>>Franklin Knapp: No, I don't think so.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good.
>>Franklin Knapp: Nope. Just go get 'em.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, it's been a privilege to have the opportunity
to have on historical record here Franklin Knapp. Clearly as we look at a
community, there are the pillars of the community that the community builds
upon. And one of those people has been Franklin Knapp. And so we are eternally
grateful for your contribution to the community. Thank you, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I've got one more thing, I think.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Okay.
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know. We may cut this out.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: No. Go ahead.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah. It's called The Bridge-Builder. And this is something
that I believe in [clears throat]. An old, old man going along the highway came
at the evening cold and gray, to a chasm, vast, deep and wide, through which was
flowing a sullen tide. The old man crossed in his twilight dim. That sullen
stream had no fears for him. But he turned when he reached the other side and
built a bridge to span the tide. "Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near. "You're
wasting strength in building here. Your journey will end with this ending day.
You never again must pass this way. You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide;
why build you a bridge at the evening tide?" The builder lifted his old, gray
head, "Good friend, in path I have come," he said, "there followeth after me
today a youth whose feet must pass this way. This chasm that has been naught to
me to that fair-haired may a pitfall be. He too must cross in the twilight dim.
Good friend, I am building this bridge for him." To me, that's the philosophy I
love.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Let's just end it with that. Thanks, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Okay.
==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, we're here today with Franklin Knapp, clearly a
pillar of the Fresno community and a distinguished recipient of the Leon S
Peters Award. So Frank, for the record, would you state your name, place of
birth and age?
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, well first, I just love your introduction. It sure makes
me feel a lot better. Franklin Knapp, and I was born in 1915 in Seattle,
Washington. So I'm not even a native of California; I've only been here since
1921.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I was absolutely fascinated by your biography. Your
stint in the Air Force -- boy, you've flown about every plane that there is to
fly. And your time at Fresno State. So what we wanna chat about, what we want
for future generations -- for not only the students who grow up in the Fresno
area, but also the business community -- to know, Frank, Franklin Knapp as a
person. Where did you grow up? And I know you came to Fresno in the '30s, and I
know you're quite -- you were quite a swimmer and... head yell leader out at
Fresno State. So tell us a little bit about your growing up.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I came here in 1921, went to... school... here in
Fresno, grammar school. Then junior high school, of course, at Longfellow. Then
Fresno High School.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Warrior.
>>Franklin Knapp: Ah yes, I was a Warrior. Lived over on Fourth Street, and El
Monte, which is fairly close to Roosevelt. Roosevelt wasn't built, so I had to
go to Fresno High and took the streetcar. In those days, we had a streetcar and
I took a streetcar to Fresno High. Then from there, I went to one year junior
college at Ontario, California. Then transferred up to Fresno State and spent
four years there and finally graduated.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: You've had a marvelous background of jobs as I looked at
in your youth. And of course, the firm that you eventually owned and retired
from is notorious for its success throughout the Central Valley. But I noticed
you had a background in swimming as well. How did you get involved in swimming?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I really don't know. I guess because I was small, always
very small -- in fact, when I went into the tenth grade in high school, I only
weighed 78 pounds. And so I couldn't really participate in football, basketball
or any of the other sports. I guess I took up swimming because I could compete
in that. And I enjoyed it very much. I learned to swim when I was four years old
in a canal here, right off of Belmont. Belmont and -- near Belmont and Van Ness,
the canal there. That's -- we used to call that the Fresno beach, and that's
where I learned to swim. And then after doing competitive swimming, then
afterwards why I kept on with the swimming, on officiating and starting the
first swimming meet here in Fresno and talked the Fresno Bee into sponsoring it,
which always helps.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, there have been many a young swimmer who remember
you starting them off and what you contributed. And I guess that's all part of
why you were the recipient of this most incredible, prestigious award -- the
Leon S. Peters Award -- because it not only acknowledges the success that you
had in business, but more importantly, what you gave to the community. It's a
community service award. What do you feel that you got started on giving back to
the community? What motivated you to do that?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't really know. I think we are -- all of us are
motivated in certain ways, but we don't know why. I've always been motivated to
civic work and civic duties and giving back some things. It's one of the reasons
I think I never played golf. Golf's a great game -- I understand it, I watch it
on television -- but I never had time, because my family and the civic work and
my business always took up all my time. Now, I thoroughly enjoyed giving, as you
say, giving back. I don't think it was giving back; it was doing what I wanted
to do, and doing it for Fresno. This is my town. This is my community. It's
going to go some place. It's right at the edge of moving forward now, if our
politicians would stick to their business instead of like, who cares about
talking about the flag? What has that got to do with Fresno? Now they're gonna
spend time in city council talking about that and deciding whether they're gonna
wave the flag or their gonna burn it. And it has nothing to do with Fresno. And
they're just wasting their time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well certainly, there are some people who talk about the
flag, and you did more than talk about it. I was fascinated by your stint in the
Air Force. You actually had your pilot's license before you went into the Air
Force. I noticed that -- before you went down to San Diego.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yes. Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: That was interesting.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I learned to fly in 1939 and then when -- just before
war came on, while I was still single, and I didn't wave the flag. The draft was
coming up! Believe me! They either get in that darn foot army, or -- and since I
could fly an airplane, I'd much rather be up there. So I joined the air corps,
and then while I was in the service, why, war broke out. So don't tell me I
waved the flag. I didn't wanna get into the foot soldiers' stuff [inaudible].
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, that was interesting because you met your wife, but
apparently the Air Force had a regulation that you couldn't be married and go
into the Air Force. And you also had to be a college, college person.
>>Franklin Knapp: That's right. When I went in, why, you couldn't be married.
Now, my wife and I were planning to be married. We've been going together eight
years. And also, you had to have a college education, and you couldn't be over
26 plus a few days. Well, I was right at the edge of the age thing. So we
couldn't get married and I did have a college education, so I got in. Then, soon
as war broke out, of course, they needed people. And all you had to do was to be
warm, basically, to get in.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs] Well, it was interesting. You worked for SKA
before the war, but then you went to work for Shell Oil Company for a brief
period of time.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yes, because when I applied for the air corps, I didn't
know when I was gonna get called up. So I closed down my insurance business and
went to work for Shell Oil, driving a truck, just on a temporary basis until I
was called up, which I was called up in October.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Tell us a little bit about SKA. It's had an incredible
history here in this valley, and certainly your family initiated the start of
the program and now you and your brother, for years have made it what it is.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, SKA -- or Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton actually, it was –
B.F. Shepherd started in business with a partner back in 1886. And then it
became B.F. Shepherd Company, and Cleve Appleton and my father, B.F. Knapp,
started insurance business in 1921 here. In 1924, they merged the two things to
make Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton. And then it went on and my dad passed away in
1953, and of course, Shep, Shepherd passed away in 1947. So gradually, I took
over, and then my brother came on in. He ended up handling the real estate and I
handled the insurance end. And then sold out here five years ago.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: And retired.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yeah, I'm retired, but I'm busy as a dickens.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure. You know, you've seen a lot from the time that
you've come to Fresno. A lot. You've seen this town change in so many, many
different ways. What have been some of your observations -- good and not so good
-- about the town, how it's developed, those things that in the early years that
you'd like us to still have? I know when I look across here and see the old
courthouse that used to be, or the old park, it's gone, and I get a bit of
nostalgia. What kind of changes have you noticed through the years with Fresno?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, most of the changes that I've seen, in my opinion, are
good. We've had some rough spots, and we're going to have more; however, I think
we're right on the edge of taking a leap forward. There's [clears throat] many
things that can be done if our city fathers start paying attention to doing
things rather than just running for office all the time. North of Divisadero,
you know they're talking about this lake downtown. Well, this -- 20 years ago, a
group of us met for a year, once a week for a year, and had a whole proposal of
a lake at the corner of Divisadero and H Street, and developing all of that area
with a tram coming downtown and the rest of it. And then, looking ahead, from
Divisadero to Belmont, if you'll go out there, you'll see nothing but houses
that are 70, 80 and 90 years old. That should all be reconstituted, redeveloped.
And instead of people moving out farther and farther and farther and letting the
core get rotten, move back in there, and then from there, why, the next one
would be from Belmont out. And just keep going this way. But -- and I'm going to
propose this again to the city, but I think that that's too far-looking for our
city council at the present time. Now, some of them are pretty good on the city
council.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, isn't it interesting how everything is cyclery
[inaudible], 'cause at one time when you mentioned taking the trolley car, and
the lake. There was a lake in downtown Fresno at one time. There was a trolley
car. And yet those -- and then we did away with them. And you're absolutely
right: when they city spreads out, we destroy valuable farmland, and we do erode
the core of the city, which is vital to our economy and our standard of living.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, and another thing that sort of -- and this, I guess, is
a basic philosophy of mine. Governmental agencies, and that includes school
districts too, do not have competition. When you don't have competition, who
cares how many people you hire? Who cares how many administrators you have? I'm
very happy to see that schools now are going to have some private schools to
compete with them. This is going to be good for everybody, including you.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure.
>>Franklin Knapp: Most of the other government things have no competition
whatsoever, and "Who cares? Let's just spend more money." In other words, the
way the government looks at things, "The more money we can get, that'll solve
everything. Let's just get more money."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I totally agree with you: the concept of competition
is good for everyone. The consumer benefits from competition, and the more we
can inject into the public sector the philosophy of competition, with charter
schools and other schools, it's good for everyone. I really do believe a rising
tide raises all boats. We have a lot of young people starting off in the Fresno
area, establishing businesses. What advice would you give to them, to a
youngster starting off, wanting to establish a business in the Fresno area? Any
words of wisdom you would pass onto them?
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know whether they're words of wisdom or not. I think
maybe some words of common sense. So many young people have been -- well, in the
past 20 to 25 years, our government has told people, "Don't worry; we are going
to take care of you." And so many young people have been brought up in this and
they believe that: that they don't have to work. In other words, maybe they have
to put in 30 hours, but I'm talking about working. And spending maybe 60 hours,
and building something instead of expecting the government or someone to take
care of you. This is what scares the dickens out of me, is the philosophy of so
many -- not only children, but their parents, because they have been taken care
of. And the government still continues to say, "Don't worry; we are going to
take care of you, so just -- you don't have to work very hard. You're gonna have
retirement, you're gonna have all of it." I don't think it's words of wisdom.
It's just common sense that if you're going to make something of yourself, you
have to spend some time at it. You have to have a little bit of luck, but that
luck will come if you work on it.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: When I look at the previous recipients of the Leon Peters
Award, Lew Eaton, Jim Mayer, Bob Duncan... all good friends of yours. And I
knew, of course, you knew Leon Peters so very, very well. What did it mean to be
named the recipient of this award?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, it was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me in my
life. And it will be the best thing that ever happened to me. Lee Peters, a
tremendous guy. Believe it or not, Lee loved the mountains and loved to fish.
And he fell off his horse every time we were up in the mountains. I take it
back: one time, he didn't, but the next year, he fell off twice.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: He had real short legs, and then he would put a big, thick
cushion underneath his saddle. So he was sitting right up on top. And then he
would go like this to push the thing out, and the horse would just go over like
this. Off he'd go. I tell you. And he just loved to fish. He would spend all day
fishing in a lake at 11,000 feet. Never get a strike, but just stay with it all
the time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, you know the mountains and fishing have been one of
your passions from the very early -- when they were talking about Lake Sequoia.
I was fascinated about that. When there was no road, you hiked up to Lake
Sequoia up in that area there.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah, years ago. And then with Huntington, you got a place
up in Huntington.
>>Franklin Knapp: I had a place in Huntington until three years ago, for 30some-odd years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the mountains.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah. Love the mountains.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the lakes.
>>Franklin Knapp: It's -- see, they're pure. People are starting to spoil them,
but there's still so much that they haven't been to, and they're just nice and
pure and it's a lovely place.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Not trying to rush things, because you have a lot of
living to do, but all of this as we think of our lives and what we want our
family and friends and people to remember us by, when the final chapter is
written in >>Franklin Knapp's life, what do you want people to say about you?
What do you want them to recall about you as a person?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't... I almost said, "I don't care." I do care,
I guess. But in other words, I am reasonably satisfied with my life, that I have
done a little bit of good on this earth. I know that I could've done more, but
at least I have done as much or more than the average person. And what people
think of me after I'm gone, frankly I don't care, 'cause I won't be around.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Unless there's reincarnation. I think I'm beginning to believe
in that, 'cause I've got so many things that I have not done. So I'm believing
in reincarnation. I gotta come back and do them.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, what were the -- finally, what were the
important things to you, what were the things that really mattered to you in
your life? I know you had a marvelous marriage until the untimely death of your
wife in 1986, I believe.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: But you were married 50...
>>Franklin Knapp: No, only married 46 years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: 46 years. 46 years.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes. No, I think -- of course, my family was number one. I’ve
got, we only had one daughter, but I've got two lovely granddaughters. Both of
them graduated from universities. And then I started a new life nine years ago,
got remarried, and as they say, I've just started a completely new life and
I'm... just doggone -- I almost said "damn lucky."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Really. I am damn lucky to have two marriages, or two lives
that are so great.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good. Well, being the educator that I am, you know,
sometimes you don't ask all the right questions on the test. So I'm gonna close
with an open-ended question. Anything that you wanna add that I think is
important to you, that you want future generations to be able to know, either
about your life in Fresno and your background?
>>Franklin Knapp: No, I don't think so.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good.
>>Franklin Knapp: Nope. Just go get 'em.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, it's been a privilege to have the opportunity
to have on historical record here Franklin Knapp. Clearly as we look at a
community, there are the pillars of the community that the community builds
upon. And one of those people has been Franklin Knapp. And so we are eternally
grateful for your contribution to the community. Thank you, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I've got one more thing, I think.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Okay.
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know. We may cut this out.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: No. Go ahead.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah. It's called The Bridge-Builder. And this is something
that I believe in [clears throat]. An old, old man going along the highway came
at the evening cold and gray, to a chasm, vast, deep and wide, through which was
flowing a sullen tide. The old man crossed in his twilight dim. That sullen
stream had no fears for him. But he turned when he reached the other side and
built a bridge to span the tide. "Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near. "You're
wasting strength in building here. Your journey will end with this ending day.
You never again must pass this way. You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide;
why build you a bridge at the evening tide?" The builder lifted his old, gray
head, "Good friend, in path I have come," he said, "there followeth after me
today a youth whose feet must pass this way. This chasm that has been naught to
me to that fair-haired may a pitfall be. He too must cross in the twilight dim.
Good friend, I am building this bridge for him." To me, that's the philosophy I
love.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Let's just end it with that. Thanks, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Okay.
==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====
pillar of the Fresno community and a distinguished recipient of the Leon S
Peters Award. So Frank, for the record, would you state your name, place of
birth and age?
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, well first, I just love your introduction. It sure makes
me feel a lot better. Franklin Knapp, and I was born in 1915 in Seattle,
Washington. So I'm not even a native of California; I've only been here since
1921.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I was absolutely fascinated by your biography. Your
stint in the Air Force -- boy, you've flown about every plane that there is to
fly. And your time at Fresno State. So what we wanna chat about, what we want
for future generations -- for not only the students who grow up in the Fresno
area, but also the business community -- to know, Frank, Franklin Knapp as a
person. Where did you grow up? And I know you came to Fresno in the '30s, and I
know you're quite -- you were quite a swimmer and... head yell leader out at
Fresno State. So tell us a little bit about your growing up.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I came here in 1921, went to... school... here in
Fresno, grammar school. Then junior high school, of course, at Longfellow. Then
Fresno High School.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Warrior.
>>Franklin Knapp: Ah yes, I was a Warrior. Lived over on Fourth Street, and El
Monte, which is fairly close to Roosevelt. Roosevelt wasn't built, so I had to
go to Fresno High and took the streetcar. In those days, we had a streetcar and
I took a streetcar to Fresno High. Then from there, I went to one year junior
college at Ontario, California. Then transferred up to Fresno State and spent
four years there and finally graduated.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: You've had a marvelous background of jobs as I looked at
in your youth. And of course, the firm that you eventually owned and retired
from is notorious for its success throughout the Central Valley. But I noticed
you had a background in swimming as well. How did you get involved in swimming?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I really don't know. I guess because I was small, always
very small -- in fact, when I went into the tenth grade in high school, I only
weighed 78 pounds. And so I couldn't really participate in football, basketball
or any of the other sports. I guess I took up swimming because I could compete
in that. And I enjoyed it very much. I learned to swim when I was four years old
in a canal here, right off of Belmont. Belmont and -- near Belmont and Van Ness,
the canal there. That's -- we used to call that the Fresno beach, and that's
where I learned to swim. And then after doing competitive swimming, then
afterwards why I kept on with the swimming, on officiating and starting the
first swimming meet here in Fresno and talked the Fresno Bee into sponsoring it,
which always helps.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, there have been many a young swimmer who remember
you starting them off and what you contributed. And I guess that's all part of
why you were the recipient of this most incredible, prestigious award -- the
Leon S. Peters Award -- because it not only acknowledges the success that you
had in business, but more importantly, what you gave to the community. It's a
community service award. What do you feel that you got started on giving back to
the community? What motivated you to do that?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't really know. I think we are -- all of us are
motivated in certain ways, but we don't know why. I've always been motivated to
civic work and civic duties and giving back some things. It's one of the reasons
I think I never played golf. Golf's a great game -- I understand it, I watch it
on television -- but I never had time, because my family and the civic work and
my business always took up all my time. Now, I thoroughly enjoyed giving, as you
say, giving back. I don't think it was giving back; it was doing what I wanted
to do, and doing it for Fresno. This is my town. This is my community. It's
going to go some place. It's right at the edge of moving forward now, if our
politicians would stick to their business instead of like, who cares about
talking about the flag? What has that got to do with Fresno? Now they're gonna
spend time in city council talking about that and deciding whether they're gonna
wave the flag or their gonna burn it. And it has nothing to do with Fresno. And
they're just wasting their time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well certainly, there are some people who talk about the
flag, and you did more than talk about it. I was fascinated by your stint in the
Air Force. You actually had your pilot's license before you went into the Air
Force. I noticed that -- before you went down to San Diego.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yes. Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: That was interesting.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I learned to fly in 1939 and then when -- just before
war came on, while I was still single, and I didn't wave the flag. The draft was
coming up! Believe me! They either get in that darn foot army, or -- and since I
could fly an airplane, I'd much rather be up there. So I joined the air corps,
and then while I was in the service, why, war broke out. So don't tell me I
waved the flag. I didn't wanna get into the foot soldiers' stuff [inaudible].
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, that was interesting because you met your wife, but
apparently the Air Force had a regulation that you couldn't be married and go
into the Air Force. And you also had to be a college, college person.
>>Franklin Knapp: That's right. When I went in, why, you couldn't be married.
Now, my wife and I were planning to be married. We've been going together eight
years. And also, you had to have a college education, and you couldn't be over
26 plus a few days. Well, I was right at the edge of the age thing. So we
couldn't get married and I did have a college education, so I got in. Then, soon
as war broke out, of course, they needed people. And all you had to do was to be
warm, basically, to get in.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs] Well, it was interesting. You worked for SKA
before the war, but then you went to work for Shell Oil Company for a brief
period of time.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yes, because when I applied for the air corps, I didn't
know when I was gonna get called up. So I closed down my insurance business and
went to work for Shell Oil, driving a truck, just on a temporary basis until I
was called up, which I was called up in October.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Tell us a little bit about SKA. It's had an incredible
history here in this valley, and certainly your family initiated the start of
the program and now you and your brother, for years have made it what it is.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, SKA -- or Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton actually, it was –
B.F. Shepherd started in business with a partner back in 1886. And then it
became B.F. Shepherd Company, and Cleve Appleton and my father, B.F. Knapp,
started insurance business in 1921 here. In 1924, they merged the two things to
make Shepherd, Knapp, Appleton. And then it went on and my dad passed away in
1953, and of course, Shep, Shepherd passed away in 1947. So gradually, I took
over, and then my brother came on in. He ended up handling the real estate and I
handled the insurance end. And then sold out here five years ago.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: And retired.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, yeah, I'm retired, but I'm busy as a dickens.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure. You know, you've seen a lot from the time that
you've come to Fresno. A lot. You've seen this town change in so many, many
different ways. What have been some of your observations -- good and not so good
-- about the town, how it's developed, those things that in the early years that
you'd like us to still have? I know when I look across here and see the old
courthouse that used to be, or the old park, it's gone, and I get a bit of
nostalgia. What kind of changes have you noticed through the years with Fresno?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, most of the changes that I've seen, in my opinion, are
good. We've had some rough spots, and we're going to have more; however, I think
we're right on the edge of taking a leap forward. There's [clears throat] many
things that can be done if our city fathers start paying attention to doing
things rather than just running for office all the time. North of Divisadero,
you know they're talking about this lake downtown. Well, this -- 20 years ago, a
group of us met for a year, once a week for a year, and had a whole proposal of
a lake at the corner of Divisadero and H Street, and developing all of that area
with a tram coming downtown and the rest of it. And then, looking ahead, from
Divisadero to Belmont, if you'll go out there, you'll see nothing but houses
that are 70, 80 and 90 years old. That should all be reconstituted, redeveloped.
And instead of people moving out farther and farther and farther and letting the
core get rotten, move back in there, and then from there, why, the next one
would be from Belmont out. And just keep going this way. But -- and I'm going to
propose this again to the city, but I think that that's too far-looking for our
city council at the present time. Now, some of them are pretty good on the city
council.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, isn't it interesting how everything is cyclery
[inaudible], 'cause at one time when you mentioned taking the trolley car, and
the lake. There was a lake in downtown Fresno at one time. There was a trolley
car. And yet those -- and then we did away with them. And you're absolutely
right: when they city spreads out, we destroy valuable farmland, and we do erode
the core of the city, which is vital to our economy and our standard of living.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah, and another thing that sort of -- and this, I guess, is
a basic philosophy of mine. Governmental agencies, and that includes school
districts too, do not have competition. When you don't have competition, who
cares how many people you hire? Who cares how many administrators you have? I'm
very happy to see that schools now are going to have some private schools to
compete with them. This is going to be good for everybody, including you.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Sure.
>>Franklin Knapp: Most of the other government things have no competition
whatsoever, and "Who cares? Let's just spend more money." In other words, the
way the government looks at things, "The more money we can get, that'll solve
everything. Let's just get more money."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, I totally agree with you: the concept of competition
is good for everyone. The consumer benefits from competition, and the more we
can inject into the public sector the philosophy of competition, with charter
schools and other schools, it's good for everyone. I really do believe a rising
tide raises all boats. We have a lot of young people starting off in the Fresno
area, establishing businesses. What advice would you give to them, to a
youngster starting off, wanting to establish a business in the Fresno area? Any
words of wisdom you would pass onto them?
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know whether they're words of wisdom or not. I think
maybe some words of common sense. So many young people have been -- well, in the
past 20 to 25 years, our government has told people, "Don't worry; we are going
to take care of you." And so many young people have been brought up in this and
they believe that: that they don't have to work. In other words, maybe they have
to put in 30 hours, but I'm talking about working. And spending maybe 60 hours,
and building something instead of expecting the government or someone to take
care of you. This is what scares the dickens out of me, is the philosophy of so
many -- not only children, but their parents, because they have been taken care
of. And the government still continues to say, "Don't worry; we are going to
take care of you, so just -- you don't have to work very hard. You're gonna have
retirement, you're gonna have all of it." I don't think it's words of wisdom.
It's just common sense that if you're going to make something of yourself, you
have to spend some time at it. You have to have a little bit of luck, but that
luck will come if you work on it.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: When I look at the previous recipients of the Leon Peters
Award, Lew Eaton, Jim Mayer, Bob Duncan... all good friends of yours. And I
knew, of course, you knew Leon Peters so very, very well. What did it mean to be
named the recipient of this award?
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, it was the nicest thing that's ever happened to me in my
life. And it will be the best thing that ever happened to me. Lee Peters, a
tremendous guy. Believe it or not, Lee loved the mountains and loved to fish.
And he fell off his horse every time we were up in the mountains. I take it
back: one time, he didn't, but the next year, he fell off twice.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: He had real short legs, and then he would put a big, thick
cushion underneath his saddle. So he was sitting right up on top. And then he
would go like this to push the thing out, and the horse would just go over like
this. Off he'd go. I tell you. And he just loved to fish. He would spend all day
fishing in a lake at 11,000 feet. Never get a strike, but just stay with it all
the time.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Well, you know the mountains and fishing have been one of
your passions from the very early -- when they were talking about Lake Sequoia.
I was fascinated about that. When there was no road, you hiked up to Lake
Sequoia up in that area there.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah, years ago. And then with Huntington, you got a place
up in Huntington.
>>Franklin Knapp: I had a place in Huntington until three years ago, for 30some-odd years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the mountains.
>>Franklin Knapp: Oh yeah. Love the mountains.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Love the lakes.
>>Franklin Knapp: It's -- see, they're pure. People are starting to spoil them,
but there's still so much that they haven't been to, and they're just nice and
pure and it's a lovely place.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Not trying to rush things, because you have a lot of
living to do, but all of this as we think of our lives and what we want our
family and friends and people to remember us by, when the final chapter is
written in >>Franklin Knapp's life, what do you want people to say about you?
What do you want them to recall about you as a person?
>>Franklin Knapp: You know, I don't... I almost said, "I don't care." I do care,
I guess. But in other words, I am reasonably satisfied with my life, that I have
done a little bit of good on this earth. I know that I could've done more, but
at least I have done as much or more than the average person. And what people
think of me after I'm gone, frankly I don't care, 'cause I won't be around.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Unless there's reincarnation. I think I'm beginning to believe
in that, 'cause I've got so many things that I have not done. So I'm believing
in reincarnation. I gotta come back and do them.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, what were the -- finally, what were the
important things to you, what were the things that really mattered to you in
your life? I know you had a marvelous marriage until the untimely death of your
wife in 1986, I believe.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: But you were married 50...
>>Franklin Knapp: No, only married 46 years.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: 46 years. 46 years.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yes. No, I think -- of course, my family was number one. I’ve
got, we only had one daughter, but I've got two lovely granddaughters. Both of
them graduated from universities. And then I started a new life nine years ago,
got remarried, and as they say, I've just started a completely new life and
I'm... just doggone -- I almost said "damn lucky."
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: [Laughs]
>>Franklin Knapp: Really. I am damn lucky to have two marriages, or two lives
that are so great.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good. Well, being the educator that I am, you know,
sometimes you don't ask all the right questions on the test. So I'm gonna close
with an open-ended question. Anything that you wanna add that I think is
important to you, that you want future generations to be able to know, either
about your life in Fresno and your background?
>>Franklin Knapp: No, I don't think so.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Good.
>>Franklin Knapp: Nope. Just go get 'em.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Yeah. Well, it's been a privilege to have the opportunity
to have on historical record here Franklin Knapp. Clearly as we look at a
community, there are the pillars of the community that the community builds
upon. And one of those people has been Franklin Knapp. And so we are eternally
grateful for your contribution to the community. Thank you, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Well, I've got one more thing, I think.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Okay.
>>Franklin Knapp: I don't know. We may cut this out.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: No. Go ahead.
>>Franklin Knapp: Yeah. It's called The Bridge-Builder. And this is something
that I believe in [clears throat]. An old, old man going along the highway came
at the evening cold and gray, to a chasm, vast, deep and wide, through which was
flowing a sullen tide. The old man crossed in his twilight dim. That sullen
stream had no fears for him. But he turned when he reached the other side and
built a bridge to span the tide. "Old man," said a fellow pilgrim near. "You're
wasting strength in building here. Your journey will end with this ending day.
You never again must pass this way. You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide;
why build you a bridge at the evening tide?" The builder lifted his old, gray
head, "Good friend, in path I have come," he said, "there followeth after me
today a youth whose feet must pass this way. This chasm that has been naught to
me to that fair-haired may a pitfall be. He too must cross in the twilight dim.
Good friend, I am building this bridge for him." To me, that's the philosophy I
love.
>>Dr. Peter G. Mehas: Let's just end it with that. Thanks, Frank.
>>Franklin Knapp: Okay.
==== Transcribed by Automatic Sync Technologies ====