Ralph Kumano interview
Item
Title
eng
Ralph Kumano interview
Description
eng
Ralph Kumano talks about his family origins in Japan and being born in the Gila River Relocation Center, working in the farm industry growing up, before working for the National Park Service and as a teacher. He discusses teaching in Southern California for 18 years before moving back to Fresno and teaching at Kings Canyon Middle School, Tenaya Middle School and McLane High School before retiring. He dives further into his family history, discussing how his grandfather immigrated from Hiroshima, Japan to Hawaii before moving on to Sanger, California and marrying a "picture bride", how his father and mother met and married and about his brothers and sisters. He talks about the Pearl Harbor attack and Executive Order 9066 and the evacuation, how his family received permission to drive their car to Arizona to the Gila camp, and how life in the camp was. He discusses his father refusing to work for the extremely low wages that were offered in the camps and focusing on hobbies instead. The loyalty questionnaire is discussed, along with No-No Boys and them being sent to Tule Lake Segregation Center with some renouncing their citizenships under strained circumstances and being forced to fight to get them restored. He states how his father was the last Japanese American to leave the Gila River camp and talks about how his grandfather died in 1943 in the camp. He talks about being fortunate to have someone watch their property and being able to come back to it and life after the war, his education and facing discrimination in the 1950's. He talks about his involvement in the Japanese American community, the Civil Liberties Act and redress and reparations.
Creator
eng
Kumano, Ralph
eng
Tinker, Carlene
Relation
eng
Issei to Gosei Oral History Project
Coverage
eng
Fresno, California
Date
eng
4/29/2019
Identifier
eng
SCMS_igoh_00007
extracted text
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Good morning, Mr. Kumano.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Good morning.
>> Carlene Tinker: How you doing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK, I guess.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, welcome to Special Collections Research
Center. This is where we are conducting our interviews for the
Issei to Gosei interview project. And I'm so happy that you've
agreed to be part of that. Today is Thursday, April 11th, 2019
and it's 10:02. OK. So let's begin. But before I actually get
into asking you questions about your family, let me describe why
we call the Issei to Gosei interview project as we did.
Technically we wanted to interview people from each of the
generations of Japanese Americans or Japanese who came to the
United States but that became a very cumbersome name so we
condensed it. But also for the viewers of your interview let me
explain what the generations are of Japanese. The Issei were the
Japanese who came over probably between the late 1885 to about
1915. Those were the early immigrants from Japan. Their children
who were born here are called the Nisei, second generation. The
children of a Nisei are the Sansei. The children of the Sansei
are the Yonsei. And the children of the Yonsei are the Gosei. So
we actually have a lot of Goseis around, so we'll be including
them as well. Which generation are you a part of?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Third generation, Sansei.
>> Carlene Tinker: Sansei. So your grandparents were born in
Japan and your mother and father were born here?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, that is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. First of all let me have you tell us
what your full name is. Your full name, Ralph.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. My name is Ralph Fumihiro Kumano.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And where did you-- where were you born?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I was born in Gila River, Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: And that was a relocation->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: In the-- Right, in the concentration
camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And date of birth?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: March 4th, 1945.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So you just recently had a birthday.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Give me your recent and your current
residence as I know you live in two different places.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I basically I live in Auberry,
California but also I stay in Sanger, California which is our
family homestead.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. Good. And how long have you been a
resident of California?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: A year after I move-- we moved from
Arizona to California I've been here.
>> Carlene Tinker: And so essentially-- So how->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Seventy three years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Seventy three years. So, you have a lot of
experience and knowledge and rightfully so. Also-- I know you
have a very varied background in education. Can you describe
briefly what kinds of occupations you've had and what kind of
education you've had.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I've worked in the farm industry
when I was a kid, picking grapes and harvesting peaches and
working with the orange trees, the citrus pests that were there.
And also going to college I worked during the summers for HuntWesson Foods.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which food?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Hunt-Wesson Foods.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: They make tomato cannery in Davis.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And also with Pet Foods in Sanger. And
then once I-- I eventually started teaching. I got a job with-while I was in graduate school I got a job with the National
Park Service for summers.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And that's how you became a ranger [
Naturalist. In the National Park service].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I was basically the-- as far as I
know the first Japanese American back country ranger, wilderness
ranger we call that-- they call us 90-day wonders since we're up
there for 90 days roughly in Kings Canyon in Sequoia National
Park. And this is in the '70s->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and early '80s.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow. So how long were you a ranger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: For about 12 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Twelve years and-- but you also taught
sometime. Was that before you went to->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: While I was at graduate school I
started doing the Park Service and then when I got my permanent
teaching job that was the other nine months.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then your permanent-- your first job
was in Southern California.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, Southern California, La Cañada
Flintridge, California and all that.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: At Foothill Intermediate School.
>> Carlene Tinker: Pardon me.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Once you get-- Foothill Intermediate
School which eventually became a part of La Cañada High School->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- which was a 7 through 12 school.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then how long did you teach there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I was there 18 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Whoa. And then you eventually came here to
Fresno. I believe you taught for Fresno Unified.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that true? And where did you teach there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I came back in the-- I took a leave
there because my dad had Parkinson's. And so I came back and
helped my mom with my dad. And got a job in Fresno Unified in
the '90s and retired in 2003 but I was at various junior high
schools such as Kings Canyon Middle School and Tenaya Middle
School. And then eventually I got a job at McLane High School.
And that's where I retired after nine years->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- in 2003.
>> Carlene Tinker: And then also you taught at a community
college.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I also I was the adjunct while I
was looking for a job, adjunct teacher or instructor at Reedley
College and at the Fresno City College since 1990 to 2012, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's amazing. Well, you definitely have a
lot to give to kids. I mean, you being a park ranger I think in
itself is really a wonderful thing to share with your students.
When did you officially retire?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I retired in 2003 from Fresno Unified
since that was the basically full time job and then I get the
teaching of biology class at City College.
>> Carlene Tinker: How long did you do that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Until 2012, so->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- another->> Carlene Tinker: So then->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- nine more years.
>> Carlene Tinker: So basically 2012 is when you've-- you
officially retired from teaching.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Well, we'll get into whatever other
activities you are doing later when we talk about your current
activities. Now, I usually start our interviews with talking
about your grandparents because that I think is really where
your story begins. And we want to capture some background
information so we can understand where you're coming from. OK.
So, let's talk about your grandpa. What about your grandpa?
Which on the father side?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. My grandfather came over from
Hiroshima, Japan and at the turn of the century to Hawaii, which
at the time was offering jobs to Japanese immigrants for-- under
sugarcane plantation. And then eventually since Hawaii was a
territory of the United States at that time-- thanks.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, I think a lot of Japanese did that->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: He-- Right. And so he came over to the
states and started working in agriculture since that was his
occupation in Japan.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wait. Let me back up a second. Which island
did he go to first, which Hawaiian island? Didn't you say he
went to the Hawaiian island?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which one?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I believe it was Oahu, the main->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- you know the->> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then from there did he come to the
United-- to the mainland?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. And then he settled in the Sanger
area because that was an agricultural farming area.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK, he->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And that->> Carlene Tinker: He can't-- I wanted to ask about that. Some
of the people who came from the islands, you know, when the
sugarcanes, they actually went to Seattle. I was wondering why
your father-- grandpa came to Sanger. Did he know somebody or is
it just the fact that it was agricultural?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It was-- There were quite a few
people. In fact this area in Fresno County was mainly from-people from Hiroshima. So that's probably where he had some
information about coming here whether he had a friend, I don't
know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. That's very plausible.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now you said Hiroshima is on the Shikoku
Island [Actually on Honshu]. I didn't realize. I thought it was
part of Honshu. It is [on Shikoku, then].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, it's southern Japan island, you
know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I learn something every day. Yeah. OK.
So your grandpa was a farm laborer. What about your grandmother?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My grandmother, he knew the family
back in Japan and so back in those days if they needed a spouse
they would have what they call a picture bride. And so he would
send his picture back to Japan and they would communicate. She
would send her picture and then he-- she-- that my grandmother
eventually came over to the United States when he was here and->> Carlene Tinker: Was she a lot younger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She was one year older actually and-But the picture that he sent was his younger brother so-- well,
there's a miscommunication in age. But anyway-- so they got
married and settled in Sanger in the Sanger area. And that's
when my father was born in 1910.
>> Carlene Tinker: 1910. And then what about your maternal side,
like your grandmother. Do you know anything about that line?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. My grandmother actually was
living in Hawaii at the time, on Hawaii and that line eventually
came over to the United States. I never met my mother's
grandfather or her father actually. But, you know, my
grandmother on her side I knew->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and she lived in Selma which she
was about 12 miles away from Sanger. So we lived in the same
area->> Carlene Tinker: So you had a chance to meet that side as
well? Oh, that's great. So your dad was born in 1910. And what
about your mom, how did she get into the picture? Was she living
in the Sanger area at the time when [inaudible]?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, she was born in-- My dad was
born in Fresno and my mom was born in Biola which is to the west
side of Fresno.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then eventually moved to the Selma
area. But my dad met my mom I guess through friends at the time
they have matched marriages and so.
>> Carlene Tinker: What's the Japanese term for that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think baishakunin. And so they had a
matchmaker that matched them up and eventually got married in
1938.
>> Carlene Tinker: Were they essentially the same age as well?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My mom was born in 1916. So six years
younger.
>> Carlene Tinker: Six years younger. Yeah. So obviously that
worked out pretty well. They had five children, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Do you want to name the children?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. My-- The first child was my
oldest sister, Shirley Yasue. Then came-- and she was born in
1939 [1940]. And my next sister was Irene Yukiye and she was
born in 1940 [1941]. And my brother, older brother was born in
1943, Thomas Masaru. And then I came along in '45. And then my
younger brother Carl Shuji was born in Fresno in 1946.
>> Carlene Tinker: But wasn't your youngest brother conceived in
camp?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was conceived in camp but he
was->> Carlene Tinker: So technically there were three, three who
were->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Born in camp, correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Let's see here. What were their
experiences, your grandparents and your parents? Did they face a
lot of discrimination?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, it was the usual discrimination
I suppose all immigrants faced before the war because they were
different and trying to make a living here. And so you get
racism or discrimination because people don't understand->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Now->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- the other cultures and the people.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were farmers, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: What crops did they grow?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My father was basically a farm
laborer. So he worked with the grapes to the Thompson's raisins>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- in the area.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Yeah, I know that a lot of Japanese who
came were strawberry farmers and that was a critical crop
because that can't-- there were a lot of people who were not
Japanese who were raising strawberries and there was this
economic conflict and probably the basis of a lot of racism and
discrimination. And I'm sure that's true with raisins too. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We had after the war we were
growing strawberries even in Sanger with the Fresno strawberry
exchange. So that was profitable->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- at one time because the Japanese
had the whole market in the central California.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Yeah. And now the local people, the
local immigrants, the Hmongs have really encroached on that
crop->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- and a lot of them are raising strawberries
then they have the stands along the roads. Yeah. So your parents
were married by baishakunin and they had five children. Now,
tell me what was their experience like in 1942 or 1941 when the- when Pearl Harbor was bombed, what did your-- of course you
weren't born yet but you have ideas in about what they were
experiencing. How did-- What do you think they felt? They're not
citizens, right? Your parents? No, your parents were->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, my parents were citizens.
>> Carlene Tinker: Your grandparents, but yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My grandparents were.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. But all of a sudden your grandparents I
think were still alive at that point, weren't they?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So their home country is at war with the
United States. Pearl Harbor gets bombed and then in 1942
February 19th the Executive Order 9066 is declared and war is
declared and all of a sudden we have to move as Japanese to
evacuation camps. OK. So how did they experience? What were
their experiences like during this time?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That I don't know because my parents,
the grandparents never talked about their experience.
>> Carlene Tinker: Very typical, very typical.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so they kept that part quiet and
I've been more aware, I probably would have asked them questions
but at that time they were-- they kept silent on those issues
and, you know, a lot of the things when I was growing up we
never knew what happened until->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- much later.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. Well, OK. So then all of a
sudden we are told that we have only a short time to pack up our
things and move. We were told that in probably March. OK. And
then California is divided, the whole West Coast is divided into
two military zones. Military was zone one and two, is that
correct?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So, obviously they had to do something
with us because that was the declaration that we had to be moved
from the West Coast because we were seen as the potential
enemies. OK. So your parents were living in military zone 2, is
that right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: How did that designation occur? Was Highway
99 sort of the dividing boundary or is that just coincidental?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think it was 99 and also East West
was either highway 180 or Belmont Avenue. One of those streets
going east and west because people to the north of Sanger went
into a different camp in the one south of 180 or Belmont.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, in the mean time while these
camps were being built-- and there were 10 of them as I recall.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Two of them in California. All right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: But the others were east->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- of California. I happen to have been in
Amache which is in Colorado. OK. Well, the barracks and so forth
were not built at that time. So what happened to the people who
were waiting? We had to get out of our houses and stuff, where
do those people go?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Once the western civil-- what is
it called, the Civil Defense Association put the posters on the
telephone poles about the evacuation, people had six to two
weeks-- six days to two weeks to pack up and get rid of property
and get ready to move. They either had to sell their property or
find friends to take it over. But anyway mainly people in-- war
zone 1 because that was critical. They were closer to the coast.
And so, they had to go to assembly centers and then eventually
to the permanent camps. Whereas we were in war zone 2 and so all
we have to do is check in to the office of the WCCA which is
part of the War Relocation Authority and got our family number
and ID tags. And then they told us we got to-- have to go to the
camp on our own. So we were able to take a vehicle which is->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- my dad's pickup and-- or truck and
go all the way to->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but you didn't->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- you didn't do that until probably August
or September, would that be right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Because the-- It took a while for the
barracks to be built up and of course a lot of people arrived at
these camps when the building was not complete.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right. And some of them helped build
them too along with the Native Indians. Both of the camps in
Arizona were on Indian reservation, the only two camps. And so,
some of the Indians probably were hired to help.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. You were in Gila and the other one was
Poston.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Was in Poston right along the coast of
the border between California and Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And you were in-- which part of Gila?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We were in the Canal Camp which Gila
Camp was divided into the Butte Camp and the Canal Camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the Canal Camp was the one that
was further east closer to I-10.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. Now getting back to your family ID,
what was the number again?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Our family, our ID->> Carlene Tinker: Do you have a->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think I had it. It was-- I think
it's 40896.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, right. And I learned recently after
doing some reading that the father of who was-- whatever the
number was, he would have a letter A after his name-- a number.
And then the mother would be B and then their first child would
be C, D, et cetera. And then that's how we got recognized. That
was our->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- identity.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so they had nametags that you put
on each person as well as your belongings.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Do you want to look for your tag and
see if you have that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I have.
>> Carlene Tinker: I see you have a lot of pictures. We'll look
at those [in] a little bit.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So, here's an example of the name tag.
This was a poster that was done for the exhibit, the 9066 a
couple years ago but this was our family here at the time. But
they had the name of the family and then ID number. This one
says, 040896. And so that was the name tag. I doubt if they had
this barcode but each of the tags were->> Carlene Tinker: You want to point out who those people are in
the pictures?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, I have a better picture of the
group here. OK.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is a much larger picture of the
same small picture that you saw. This is my dad, Thomas Katsuo.
This is my mom Chiyeko. This is my older sister Shirley Yasue.
This is my-- the younger of the two sisters Irene Yukiye. This
is my older brother Thomas Masaru. This is me. And this is my
younger brother ->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- Carl Shuji.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. That's great. That's great. And all of
your siblings are surviving, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No. Except for my older brother passed
away in 2012 from complications with diabetes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. How unfortunate, but very nice picture.
Thank you for sharing that. OK. So your family was getting back
to the fact that you were in war zone 2 did not have to go to
assembly center. And of course in Fresno we had two assembly
centers, one in Pinedale and one in the Fairgrounds. OK. The one
in Pinedale had people coming I think from Seattle. Is that
correct?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, Washington and also people from I
think some from Oregon and some from Sacramento.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. OK. And then the ones from-- at Fresno
were local->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Local area, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And then of course what you just
described about the dividing lines depending on where you lived
you decide-- they decided where you went to camp. OK. In my case
I was in southern California and even though we had relatives
nearby, I, for example, was in Boyle Heights. My cousin was his- they were strawberry farmers in Westminster. We got sent to
two different places. Yeah. And I was in Santa Anita. And even
people within Santa Anita got split up. So they really wanted to
mix us up and not have a chance to conspire I guess.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. I think that there was some type
of plan that had to be planned. But a lot of the people, they-before the evacuation actually started from the Los Angeles area
because they knew that area was going to be evacuated first,
they came to the valley here and stayed with the relatives. And
somehow they got sent to the same camp that they were with the
relatives here rather than getting split up.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so that happened but there was all
kinds of movement and->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- splitting up.
>> Carlene Tinker: And what you read is so different from what
actually happened.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: I know one family, there was a very short
window between the time that the posters were posted to tell us
to get ready to get out that you could actually leave on your
own volition. OK. And if you had somebody in the Midwest or some
place who had a job or who could be your sponsor you could go.
So some people left that way. But getting back to your family
which I think is really cool. Your family-- your dad had a truck
and who did they load up on the truck when he was ready to
leave?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We-- he had my two grandparents
and then he had his wife, my mom, and then my two younger
sisters, so six.
>> Carlene Tinker: Six people.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Six people on the truck plus the
belongings.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. What kind of truck? Do you have any
idea?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I believe it was a Ford truck but I'm
not so--
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And so, sort of like the dust bowl in
reverse.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: So->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The whole thing I was thinking of is
since that was a distance away I knew at the time later on that
there were a lot of service stations that wouldn't sell gas to
especially the Japanese. And so I don't know if my dad was able
to anticipate that and brought his own gas but I never was able
to talk to him about->> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- how he would make the whole trip.
>> Carlene Tinker: How long a trip would it be driving from
Fresno to Arizona?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, usually by modern car it's about
10 hours taking the freeways but today that was-- that's today
but back in those days probably took at least two days.
>> Carlene Tinker: At least two days, yeah. And then of course
they weren't served and I'm sure in a lot of places.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So when they got there things were not
really very comfortable, OK. Your dad was a welder at that time,
is that right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And your-- What was your mom doing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She is just a housewife.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And she was just caring for kids?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right. And right-- And at that time,
right, she just had the-- her two younger [young] daughters and
then-- in '43 my brother came into the world, so. And '42 those- she might-- he might have been conceived somewhere in that
area, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So basically they were in camp for
three years, '42 to '45?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: So what were the conditions like? Do you have
any idea what they did for a living?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, when we got there all I know was
most of those camps were built very similar because of the
blueprints. They were about a hundred feet long divided up into
four apartments basically and about 24, 25 feet wide. And so
each family of six basically got one of those what they call an
apartment, 25 by 20. And so in the room there was no partitions.
There was just one light and a stove. And so-- And then bunk
beds of course so the people had to do with that small space to
have their whole family. But if they were a couple then they got
moved in with another family. And so without partitions there
was no privacy, so they used ropes and blankets to make the
partitions to have->> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- a little compartment inside the
room->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- which is just an open room.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. Sounds like all of them were
basically built the same.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They were tarpaper, wood. The
construction was very quick. So there were gaps in the wood and
so wind would come through and the floor, there was not a
carpet. So we had-- my mom would say there was gaps about a
quarter inch on the floor and you'd have scorpions or spiders
coming through. But eventually as the time passed they were-people were able to go into Phoenix and purchase some items to
help rebuild the inside of the->> Carlene Tinker: On, can make it a->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- room, putting a carpet and putting
in curtains and things like that to make it livable.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, I know life was pretty boring
for people. So your dad was a welder as I've said, but he didn't
do that for a living in camp. Why didn't he not do that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, he was basically, yeah, he was
a-- I would say when he was working as a job before where he
went to camp he was a farmer at one time and then he quit that
because of the crop loss and decided to go on a different
direction. So he was good at fixing tractors and mechanical
things. So he bought a shop and he became a welder making farm
equipment and vineyard wagons and clothesline poles and things
like that. And so that's what his occupation was at the time. He
also was a land leveler. He had a Caterpillar tractor and he
would go out. This was in the '30-- late '30s and early '40s. He
would pull out grape vineyards and level the land. And at that
time I was looking at some of his books and it said that he
worked 18 hours at $1 an hour->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- doing that type of job. But at the
time the area in the Sanger area was not exactly flat, so having
a Caterpillar and leveling the land was pretty good business.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So you are always working. And so
that's what he did.
>> Carlene Tinker: So he was very skilled->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And he was skilled and somehow he
learned about welding. Whether he went to school or I know he
didn't go to college, he graduated in-- from Edison Technical
School in 1929 with a high school diploma. But he might have got
some type of training because he became an excellent welder.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And->> Carlene Tinker: So when->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So when he went in camp one of the
things that they asked him is, "Do you want to be a welder?" And
at that time welders would get quite a bit an hour. And if you
were in the camp the highest salary you can get if you were a
professional was less than what the private that was guarding
the camp would get, which is-- at first it was $18 then it went
up to $21 but still that was $18 a month, not an hour. And then
if you were a skilled person you got 18. And then the-- If you
were unskilled you got as low as $8 a month. And so some of
these people if they didn't have much to do and they wanted some
pocket change, then they would work for that price. But my dad
wouldn't do the welding because he said, "I should get paid a
lot more."
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so he was kind of put on a black
ball list because he didn't offer to work, because they had to
call in someone from Phoenix to do the welding.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my goodness. So what did he do instead? It
must have been really boring?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Oh, yeah. So they did hobbies, you
know. He was-- At that time, he was 32 and so he was still
pretty good athlete so he bought-- brought some baseball
[equipment] and some of the older people had old timer's games
that they played baseball. And during the idle times they did
hobbies like make things from wood that they found either
throwaway wood that the camp was throwing away or go out if they
were able to get outside, pick up some of the desert plants, the
mesquite and the ironwood and the palo verde and things like
that where they could use the wood to craft different items.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, I noticed that you brought a couple of
things that he crafted.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. That-- Well, some of the things
that they crafted were these canes and you could see the
different types that they made. So they had equipment to use and
I don't know how crude the equipment was where they had actual
tables or things or just regular handsaws but this one here was
made out of ironwood because you could see the different color.
Ironwood is a very strong wood but that->> Carlene Tinker: I noticed how they fused the handle to the
[cane].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's from the->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Where they could put it together but
they would make all kinds of plaques and statues and things out
of ironwood because it was a very heavy wood.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, now would also-- didn't they build
little birds and they make little->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, my dad also made birds-- I don't
have examples because they are being shown in a museum but we
have a book where we had some of the artifacts that was
photographed. And so, some of the bird pins that you see in this
book here.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My dad was able to collect them after
the camp and you could see the steps that they went through, the
artwork of painting them and cutting them out and sanding them
and then putting->> Carlene Tinker: And they became pins?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. And then they would trade with
people at different camps too. So not just the Gila Camp but the
other camps also knew about bird pins and they were making them
as a hobby.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, I actually-- my mom had one. I don't
know what happened to it, but yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But there was-- yeah. All kinds of
different things that they would make out of wood or the women
would sew different things plus they were making what they call
handbags->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah, totes and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- with-- totes with the extra
ironwood handles and things like that. But, you know, they had
to be creative and then make these things so that they can use
this furniture or they could trade someone else for some other
item.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. I know some beautiful pieces of chest
of drawers and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Those that were skilled, man,
they-- yeah, these carpenters, they could make all sorts of
tables and->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and chests and chairs, all kinds of
different types of chairs.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Yeah. There is a woman named Delphine
Hirasuna has written a book called "The Art of Gaman" showing
some of these priceless things. They are just amazing. And to
figure out to understand that people were doing this with very
rudimentary tools and so->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. It's just amazing. By the way, I just
said that word gaman. What does that mean?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Gaman actually is a-- means
perseverance through these times that you go through without
showing any blame or anything. They just tried to do these
things or make these things and keep the respect of what they
were trying to show by making these things in the camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. And then there's another idea
that probably allowed these people to combat boredom and the
fact that they were incarcerated that was-- what was that
expression, shikata ga nai, would you want to explain that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Shikata ga nai means what's the
use or also it means it can't be helped. You're in this
situation and you just put up with it the best you can.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, yeah. It is what it is.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. And so you don't fight it.
You just have to go along with it.
>> Carlene Tinker: That must have really carried these people
through.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, especially the older Isseis
and the Niseis. The-- some of the younger kids, of course, they
would-- they like to rebel on certain things because they-they're a little bit better educated and they knew that, you
know, we should be in this situation.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We were in camp with [out] our civil
liberties and without a trial of which is against the
constitution.
>> Carlene Tinker: Absolutely.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the younger kids realized how come
no one is rebellion against this?
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But the older people, they just went
with the flow.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because they didn't want to toss waves
and they figure that in the end that everything will come out,
you know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Come out the way it should but you
never know. And that's why some of the younger kids were always
combating. You know, they would have arguments with their
parents or things like that in camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, one of the things that happened during
the time probably about 1943, '44, there was a very questionable
survey that was administered.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Oh yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: You want to talk about that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: There was a-- we call the loyalty oath
that was passed by our government. And the reason was they
wanted to get some more soldiers and so they saw an opportunity
that all these 10 different camps had almost 60-- 6000 Japanese
Americans in it. And so some of them were of age and so the
loyalty oath actually was given to people that were 17 years and
older. And so if they were going draft up the Japanese Americans
then, of course, they wanted to make sure that they were loyal.
And it wasn't given to any other group of Americans but the
Japanese Americans had to answer the two questions, which are
very-- both very controversial. Question number 27, are you
willing to serve in the armed forces of the United Stated on
combat duty whenever ordered? So this is, are you willing to
fight for the country? And my dad, of course, said “no” because
he had his wife and kids and grandparents in camp. And so he
wasn't willing to risk dying for the country if that happened
and then he didn't know what the situation would be for the
family, you know, who's going to take care of them. And so he
answered “no” on that one. The second one basically was to-against-- It was basically against a lot of the Isseis which
were not even American citizens. So they couldn't even be
naturalized. And had they answered this one then they would be
people without a country. So they were put in a quandary and the
question said, will you swear unqualified allegiance to the
United States of America and faithfully defend the United States
from any or all attack by foreign or domestic forces? And here's
the kicker, forswear from any form of allegiance or obedience to
the Japanese emperor to any other foreign government power or
organization. And so, that one was confusing. And so here, like
my dad, he didn't have any idea of the emperor personally. He
wasn't a Japanese national so he answered, of course, on that
one, “yes”. He would forswear that. But if you were an Issei and
you were a Japanese national and you couldn't have the American
or US citizenship, then you're going to forswear against the
emperor and therefore, you're a person without a country. So--
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. So your dad and mom, I assumed, she
answered the same way->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were “no,” “yes.” And “no” on 27 and he
has->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. But if somebody answered “no” on both of
them, what happened to them?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They're “no”-- They were called
the “no-no boys.” And then some of the camps such as Heart
Mountain, there was a big constituent of the “no-no boys.” And
they actually had meetings and even riots in those camps. But
most of the camps if you were a “no-no” then you got sent to
Tule Lake, which was a segregation camp. And so they already had
about 15,000 but all these people that were “no-nos” started
going there and became the largest of the 10 camps. And so they
had to move people from that camp to other camps->> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- because basically, in the long-run,
what they were going to do with all these “no-no” persons were
going to be exchanged. They're going to either send them back to
Japan exchanged for prisoners of war, and that some of them I
think did go back early in the days but the most of them stayed
at Tule before-- because of the-- they couldn't the arrangements
of shipping them across the ocean.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And then now I understand there were
some people who voluntarily left expatriated who did go to Japan
and some people actually renounced their citizenship.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Citizenship, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And I think in the long run, those
people who decided not to go to Japan and not to, you know,
after they have done it, they fought for their citizenship to be
restored and it took about 20 years.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: And I think there was a lawyer by the name of
Collins who was responsible for reinstating their citizenship.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And some of them, because they are
called the renunciants since they lost their citizenship, I
think one person paid $25,000 to get a citizenship back.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So it was something that should have
been restored easily without having to go through these
channels.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my god, wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because the people were put in this
situation where, you know, you-- it's a dilemma. What do you-What choice do you take? Just like these loyalty questions.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, I understand too that the loyalty
question survey that had these questions in it were mistakenly
given to groups of people. Wasn't it just supposed to be going
to the young men or am I wrong on that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I don't know but all I know is that
everyone over 17 and older.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- took it and then the-- and then a
lot of the Isseis, if they didn't understand the question and
they left it blank or they put a question mark, that was the
same as saying that it was a “no” and so that's what they did.
They didn't even go back and requestion them.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And then Tule Lake becoming the
segregation center and having all these people who were
supposedly pro-Japan. I mean there was hostility and fights. And
I guess there was a stockade.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, yeah. Tule Lake also had a
stockade which is much like a Guantanamo of recent times and
where they-- people would get beaten in the stockades.
>> Carlen Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And there wasn't a very good hospital
there so there had-- they had all kinds of problems with the
people getting hurt and not->> Carlene Tinker: There's a current movie. Let's see, what is
that called, Allegiant? No, not Allegiance. There's another
movie about Tule Lake, young man whose grandfather I think was
there-- produces. And the name of the movie escapes me at the
moment.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. I can't think of it either.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but-- And also this pro-Japan group
that was in Tule Lake, the Hoshi Dan.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were very militaristic and they used to
march around.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah. Which I think in itself is
interesting that before-- If you were not that committed to go
into Japan and having this going on around you and you got sent
there because you said “no,” “no,” oh, I mean what I volatile
situation it was. Yeah. Well, fortunately->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That was one of the camps that the-the commandant I would say or whoever was in charge of the camp,
they actually brought in tanks to quell the riots and->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: One of the few of the camps were, you
know, the military had to intercede to get peace.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right. I do remember this.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow, wow. So anyway, getting back to your
parents, they stayed there until 1945. How did they get back to
Sanger? Did they drive the truck again or->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. After the-- what was winding
down then people were being led out of the camp. And eventually,
the camp was going to be-- were going to be closed. But people
started leaving the camps going to-- Most of the jobs they could
go to the East Coast but the West Coast was still kind off
limits until the camps were closed in '46. But some people were
able to go there and explore to see if they would be able to get
back to where their homes were, if they were be able to have
them saved.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yes. I recall they were given a pittance of
severance, what-- $25 for the bus ticket and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And a
a free ticket anywhere. So that
Camp, the only ones left were a
brought over but-- And then the
free-- yeah, and a bus ticket or
was that. And my dad at the Gila
few of the Hawaiians that they
Indians. But they closed the
Gila Camp first [Sept. 28, 1945] and then they moved to the
Butte Camp was the last one of the two camps that closed [Nov.
10, 1945, last to leave were 155 Hawaiian Japanese brought from
Oahu]. So my dad was the last Japanese American out of the Gila
[Canal] Camp and he never signed out so he never got his $25 for
each of the people. So the government still must owed some money
there.
>> Carlene Tinker: But he still had his truck there? And the
same truck.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was able to drive the truck
back to Sanger. But->> Carlene Tinker: But now he had two more-- two more children.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. He had two more children but one
less [more] because my grandfather [died in camp] -- I will show
you the picture. This is a early picture of my grandfather but
he was born in the 1880s and then he died in 1943 from
intestinal disorder. And then my grandmother did survive the
camp and lived to 1953, so she was able to come back out of the
camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: She came back with->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. How tall was your grandpa?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That I don't know.
>> Carlene Tinker: He looks pretty sharp.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But I imagine my dad was 5'5", 5'6"
so, you know, he was probably short too.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, how tall are you?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I'm 5'7" and a half, 5'8", but I'm the
tallest in my family but my mom was 4'10", so->> Carlene Tinker: Whoa, you didn't have a chance.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I didn't have a chance because I
didn't have all-- I have a lot of short genes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Were you going to show us another picture of
your->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. I just wanted to show a picture
of-- oh, my parents in their early days.
>> Carlene Tinker: Beautiful.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And there's my dad and there's my mom
but this is in the early 1940s.
>> Carlene Tinker: Beautiful.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Before they had all the kids and
then the latest picture-- let me just show you. Well, this was a
picture that was in 1959 of the family. So when we're a little
bit more->> Carlene Tinker: Very handsome.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- away from the end of the camps and>> Carlene Tinker: What year did you say this->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is '49.
>> Carlene Tinker: '49.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So this is about 15 years after. And
so->> Carlene Tinker: Not '49 but->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is '59.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, '59, I'm sorry. I heard '49.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, 1959.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We were-- I was in high school
and my sisters graduated so->> Carlene Tinker: Which one is you?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I'm-- I can't even find it, oh,
this one right here.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, the tall-- and, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So your parents came back to Sanger, what
did they do? Did they find everything gone?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. My-- We were kind of lucky because
the local constable, we didn't have a police department in
Sanger back in '42. And so the constable, Charlie Dever [assumed
spelling] stayed at our house and watched the house and the
shop. And so our property was pretty much saved except for other
things that happened. But we were able to get back our property.
When we came back from Gila we had three other families that
also came with us because they didn't have a place to stay. And
they wanted to come back to the West Coast. And so our shop was
a metal shop with cement floor. And during the wintertime it
could get very cold in there because of poor insulation but
that's where the family stayed inside the shop and on the-they-- I guess they probably put wood or some type of insulation
on the floor so you could sleep on the floor and live there. But
one of the things that we use was to-- would not be used today
because of the danger was smudge pots with oil or kerosene.
>> Carlene Tinker: You had those inside?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And we had inside but thank goodness
that the shop wasn't airtight.
>> Carlene Tinker: I'm going to say carbon monoxide.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so-- Yes. The danger of carbon
monoxide, you hear about these people, the family that goes to
sleep but never wakes up. So, luckily that never happened
because it was so airy and a lot of the place this gas was
probably able to get diluted or escape which was a good thing.
>> Carlene Tinker: So what did your dad do when he came back?
Was he-- did he resume his metal work?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was a-- The whole thing is he
loaned a tractor to a friend of his and the tractor after three
years, the friend was supposed to take care of it but he used it
and ruined it. And so my dad was so mad that the tractor and the
truck that he loaned the person to take care of. He just took
his acetylene torch and just cut it up into sections. And so
when we were a kid we saw this whole pile of tractor parts and
truck parts and we never did ask him why it was there but later
found out that that's what it was, the tractor that he had
loaned. And he was so upset that he just cut it up.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But he was able to still weld and do
his business and--
>> Carlene Tinker: So then he became-- not I was going to say he
did things for auto but now->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, he fixed cars. He->> Carlene Tinker: He did do that too?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We had a gas pump so he was able
to sell gasoline and->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and service cars and then mostly,
he was making farm equipment like vineyard wagons and things.
>> Carlene Tinker: But he never went back to the farming part
[inaudible]?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, no.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK, OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then he eventually, he got into
auto wrecking and became fairly successful doing that so->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- buying cars.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. OK. Let me see here. OK. Let's talk
about you growing up. Now, you're back in California, your
parents are pretty settled. They didn't have to start from
scratch.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. That's why we were lucky. So
I was able to start off my elementary-- kindergarten and
elementary years at Lincoln School which is a couple of blocks
away. And that's where->> Carlene Tinker: Is it still there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It's still there. That's one of the
classic small town schools but-- went there and then eventually
went through the whole Sanger Unified System, graduated from
Sanger High School in 1963.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then moved on to University of
California at Davis.
>> Carlene Tinker: You went there directly after high school?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then graduated there in '67 as a
entomologist, that was my major, which I changed several times
but that really fit the-- my growing up years working on farms
and then agriculture.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now, when you were in high school or
elementary school, did you face any racism or discrimination?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We had racism but it wasn't to the
extent where other families faced. We never had our house shot
at.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which somebody did on->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: There are people in the rural areas
that people would go by and shoot up their house. I don't think
anyone was killed but things were damaged. They would take a
baseball bat and knock down their mailbox, things like that,
yell out names, you know, in the middle of the night. We faced
some discrimination walking the wrong town and having people
drive by and yelling out names like Japs and things like that
back in the '50s.
>> Carlene Tinker: How about when you were in school though?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But then in school there wasn't much
because a lot of the-- my peers were also immigrants too. A lot
of Hispanic kids and so we didn't have the big distinction
between races such as black and white.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Although the Asians->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- are a little bit different than the
other races but still we got along with most of them pretty
well.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And your teachers were, you know, nice
to you? They->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. I
didn't feel slighted at all that, you know->> Carlene Tinker: And you were in activities where-- what you
wanted to do.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: You weren't kept out of things. Yeah. OK. So
when you went to Davis, was that the same? In other words, did
you feel any racism there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No. Davis was OK. The only time we
felt the racism as a family that I recall was when we went in
the early '50s to Los Angeles. My dad went to pick up some parts
and we're coming back on Highway 99 in San Fernando and we
stopped at a restaurant and they wouldn't serve us so we walked
out.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But things like that happen but that
was one incident that still-- stays in my mind.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because we see people going in there
and eating. We're sitting down at the chair but no one came up
to us and so we just walked out.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, that was good that you don't have
a lot of memories like that.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. But for the most part it's been
pretty good but->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So then you went to Davis, you got a
degree in entomology.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Entomology, yes, study of insects and
so->> Carlene Tinker: Little insects. And then you-- Did you->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: At that time, the Vietnam War was
going on because in '68 that was one of the heaviest times of
the battle [Did not go because of 2S student deferment from
1963-1967. Reclassified after graduation, went to Selective
Service Office in Fresno, flunked physical due to “flat feet”
and classified as 4F]. And I-- Because I had a [inaudible] and I
finished college, I was thinking of either getting the job as an
entomologist or going to graduate school. So I applied at
graduate school and I got in at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. But
the entomologist job was a part time job down-- there down at
Imperial Beach so I declined that. And once you decline it,
you're back on the bottom of the registry for the state. So I
went to grad school where I picked up my teaching credential and
my masters. And then I eventually from there started teaching in
Southern California in '71.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And between being a park ranger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And right. As also being a park
ranger.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right. Now, let's see here. You're
very involved in the Japanese American community. I'm curious
about what has motivated you to be so involved.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, to tell you the truth, because
my family didn't talk about the internment years and things like
that, we were kind of kept out of the loop. And even at our high
school we didn't learn much about World War II and the
internment because we just got up to the end of the civil war
actually in US history. So we were kind of either naive and/or
uneducated on that aspect. But we heard stories about the camp
when my dad would have friends over at the garage and they would
talk about the old days and so that's where we would get bits
and pieces of information. But in the mean time, when we-- was-when we were living in that-- at that time things were going
along pretty good as far as comfort with us. And so I was just
going to college and I wasn't involved in any of the Japanese
American organizations because I had other organizations. And I
know that they were doing things with the redress and trying to
get the Civil Liberties Act passed in 1988. But for some reason,
I was-- My mind was on teaching and coaching and doing other
things at the school. And so once I eventually came to the
Fresno area then I got involved in the local Japanese American
Citizens League in the Sanger chapter. And then I got involved
in other groups dealing with the Japanese community. But it was
a little late but it's better late than never. And so that's why
I'm involved in the Shinzen Garden and Sanger Historical Society
and trying to use a lot of volunteer time for these nonprofit
groups.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, you're doing a wonderful job and I'm
sure everybody appreciates that. You mentioned the redress.
Let's talk about that a little bit. How did that affect your
family? Did they receive money, reparations money?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, of course, anyone->> Carlene Tinker: But first of all, what was the redress? What- Tell us a little bit about the Civil Liberties Act.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: First of all, the redress was trying
to-- I remember back in the '50s, my-- I saw some old letters
where my dad was trying to get compensated for some of the
property lost. And he was trying to go to court and trying to
establish, you know, the value of these things and whether he
would get any compensation. And at that time, they were going to
only give 10 cents and a dollar.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so one of the things-- I know a
lot of those lawsuits and things didn't go through. Some people
made some money but as a group, the Japanese organization
wanted-- it basically wasn't to restore the amount of loss
because the loss today would be or at that time when the redress
was offered was would have been in the billions but-- So it was
basically a symbolic fine so that the government did something
illegally against the constitution. And so they were given a
fine so they don't-- they won't do it again. And just as some
type of slap on the hand because if you just let things go
without any type of compensation or retribution then, you know,
things can be forgotten too easily.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And as Thomas Jefferson said, the
biggest threat to our American freedom is to ignore the
constitution, and that's what our government did. And so you got
to keep them accountable. And so that's what the redress was
that being formed by the JACL. And they had to go through many
years of trying to get the money available for this. And by the
time the redress actually looked like it was going to be
favorable and a lot of the congressmen start voting for it,
almost half of the people on the camp, 60,000 of the 120,000
passed away. So they didn't get any redress my-- like my two
grandparents on my father side, they didn't get anything. And
then my younger brother, of course, he was born-- conceived in
camp but born outside of camp so he wasn't offered anything. But
the-- My father, mother, and the four kids got the $20,000 check
for being in the camp. And we also got along with that an
apology-- -- from the presidents. There were different apologies
but one of them was, of course-- the last one was by President
Bill Clinton. And here's the White House memo that said, we
apologize for having you put into the camps. And so that was it.
But there was one from Ronald Reagan all the way to->> Carlene Tinker: Wasn't Bush?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Bush, yeah. Also was involved in one
of the letters. But they send out the money in segments. And so
the last one I think came in the late '90s. And then-- I mean
mid '90s and then I think the Peruvians also were trying to get
some money for their time. And I don't know what the Hawaiians
were able to get any redress because they just found some camps
there and, well, they were also involved in getting->> Carlene Tinker: Well, that's an interesting thing about the
Peruvians, FDR and the government of Peru wanted to get rid of
the Japanese there. So they were sent here to Crystal City as I
recall.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And I just read recently I think they
got $5000.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. Yeah, they did get some I think.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And then that's also true, how about
the Canadian Japanese?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. There were some Canadian.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were put in camps as well.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: And I believe they got $5000 I think. And
that's an interesting thing too about the Canadian Japanese. I
met someone recently who was a teacher in Canada and part of
their curriculum is to teach about the internment camps for
Japanese-- Canadian-Japanese which I thought was wonderful. I
don't know if all of them teach that but it's part of their
history as well.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, yeah because a lot of people
didn't realize they had camps, so same with the Hawaiian
Islands.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: People didn't know and then now
they're finding out that there are over 20 camps there in
various islands.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. I know that the Peruvians, they had no
country to go back to.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, because see, when they were-they actually immigrated well like-- my grandparents came to the
United States. They migrated to-- immigrated to South America
and wanted to establish a new life there. And so, a lot of them
own businesses and stores in Peru. And not just Peru there's
also Central America and Mexico had Japanese. But our government
made deals with each of the leaders of those countries because
they were saying the West-- whole West Coast was in danger of
Japanese invasion so we got to get these Japanese moved. And so
the Peruvians-- The FBI went over there and just pulled them out
and they left their family there. A lot of them were married to
Peruvian citizens and-- but the men were taken to Crystal City,
Texas and they-- When they got there they never gave them back
their citizenship papers so they were people without a country
once the war ended. Where did they go? They didn't have a
passport to go back to Peru so it-- They were-- it was a crazy
situation there.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, it seems like even worse than us.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, poor people. Well, let's-- you're-- I
know you said your parents don't-- didn't talk about camp as
well as my parents didn't either. Have you ever visited Gila?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I did in the early 2000s and went
to both the Canal Camp and the Butte Camp. Not much left except
the Canal Camp had probably out of the 10 camps the most
fishponds.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, really?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The people-- people were-- Because
there was a canal going by and so there's some water available
and they were able to use the desert rocks. And I don't know if
where they got the cement. They might have been able to buy it
or get it from the camp administrator but each of the barracks
basically had a little fishpond.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's interesting. Yeah, because in our camp
we were in the high desert and I think they had the internees
build only one koi pond. And all the rest of the places, we have
gardens but no fishpond.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They had-- But a lot of the
camps like Manzanar had victory gardens as well as a major pond.
They had-- I think Manzanar had two major koi ponds, so->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Yeah. I do remember seeing those.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But they didn't have individual ones->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, I
didn't know that.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- right outside the barracks, so-But the Canal Camp, we had a lot of them. So you could see the
foundations that's left of the blocks and then the fishponds are
still there.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now does Gila-- Do they have or have-- the
internees have reunions?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Not to the extent that the other camps
because they're on Indian reservation.
>> Carlene Tinker: See, Poston I think does.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: I think->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Poston because it's right there on a
major road there, goes right through the Poston Camp from Parker
to Ehrenberg along the Colorado River [Across from Blythe, CA on
I-10. On the road north to Parker, AZ, one would enter the
Colorado River Indian Reservation where the Poston
Concentration Camp was located]. So they do have annual reunions
there. But Gila, since it's further secluded to south of Phoenix
there-- I know they have a Phoenix JACL but every once in a
while you-- they could have tours with the Indians being guides
to the area. But they haven't had major reunions since I think
the late '90s and early 2000s. That's when my mom went there for
the last time.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And when did your mom pass?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She passed in 2005.
>> Carlene Tinker: 2005. And your dad?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: 1990.
>> Carlene Tinker: 1990. Oh, that was-- yeah. We got our check
in 1992 for the redress. Yeah, so we-- but he got it. Was he
alive at the time?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. So he was able to get it. And
since my younger brother never got-- my mother gave my dad's to
my younger brother so he was able to get something.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's nice. OK. Now, we have lots of things
that you might want to show some pictures that maybe that might
be interesting to our viewers. You have anything in mind?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The only one main thing was one of the
key things of the Japanese being evacuated from the West Coast
is because in California the Japanese had probably 90% of the
truck farms. And so they were-- all the vegetables and that--
and things like that, fruit trees also were by Japanese. And
even in the Delta area we had a Japanese that had like 5000
acres who was called the potato king of California. And so there
were some big farmers at the time but the Japanese were so
productive in the raising of the crop per acreage that a lot of
the other farm groups were-- wanted the Japanese out. That's
always been the taste because they were competing for the goods.
And so there was all these groups such as the Native Son-- Sons
of the Golden West, and the American Grange, and the American
Legion. All these groups wanted the Japanese off the West Coast.
And even when they were put in the camp they didn't want them to
return. And so here's an apology, a little late but this is by
the California State Grange. And the president had apologized
for what they did and->> Carlene Tinker: But what year-- When was that letter?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And this letter was in 2014, which is
pretty late but this says, examining our past we recognize that
the Grange was a leader in organizing opposition to Japanese
immigration beginning in 1907. Along with the American Legion,
the State Federation of Labor and the Native Sons of the Golden
West, the grange was active in the Asiatic Exclusion League. And
so this Grange passed the resolution in 1907 was stated that
aliens living in the United States should be barred from buying
and owning land. So this had to do with the alien land laws
also. And so there was all kinds of things that happened that
the people didn't know. And one of our main people that was a
member of the Native Sons of the Golden West was our ex-attorney
general and governor and eventually Supreme Court Justice Earl
Warren. And so, you could see where some of the racism occurred
back then. And I think in his memoirs he regretted it.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, and yeah. I think Warren actually
apologized later, didn't he?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He apologized way after he was->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but still better late than never.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Never, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Now, is there anything else that we
have not covered that maybe you would like to share with our
audience?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think we-- I can't see anything
else.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, the main thing today was to
understand where you came from, who you represent, and to share
some of your stories about your past, your parents, and
yourself. One of the questions I like to ask everybody is what
do you think your legacy will be? How do you want to be
remembered?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, basically helping out the
Japanese American Community, not just the Japanese American but
just helping out people. That's why I was into teaching is I
wanted to help the kids. And then also another part of my legacy
is because I love nature. I'm a biology teacher and an
ecologist. Working in the national park was a dream of mine that
came true, hiking up there in the high sierra for almost 12
years all summer long. It's one of those dream jobs like being a
John Muir who I learned about later, but yeah, it's cool to be
associated with nature, getting back to the beautiful things
that Mother Nature put where sometimes human society has all
these problems. When you get up into the park it's-- you go with
the flow because everything is so beautiful and so peaceful.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, Ralph, I think your goals have
been achieved. I think that people will remember you for what
you've done, not only for your family but also for the Japanese
American community as you continue your association with the
Sanger JACL, Historical Society [Sanger Historical Society] and
other active-- well, Shinzen Gardens [Shinzen Japanese Garden]
also, yeah. And I don't know how you keep it up.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I'm slowing down but one of my
big prizes that I-- if I'm still able to fish that's the thing I
like to do the most. And so->> Carlene Tinker: Well, where do you work-- What kind of
fishing do you do?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I'm basically a bass fisherman and a
trout fisherman but->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, in lakes?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the trout fishing is in the high
streams and lakes. And so, the reason I retired when I was 58
years old is because when my dad retired when he was back in
1975, he had Parkinson's and one of his goals was-- when he
retired he wanted to go fishing and he couldn't do that. And so
I said I'm not going to end up being denied for a few years at
least something I wanted to do. And so I'm all square now. I've
been retired for-- since 2003, so that's 16 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: And have you gotten any fishing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I've been fishing and doing
everything I have so my bucket list is pretty well filled and
so->> Carlene Tinker: Good for you, good for you.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I can go into the sunset anytime with
this->> Carlene Tinker: With your fishing pole in hand.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: With my fishing pole and smile on my
face, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, thank you very much, Ralph. I certainly
have appreciated your participation and I'm sure others will.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I appreciate. I hope people can
learn from the story because if you don't remember what happened
in the past, then you're doomed to return it or repeat it. And
so that's what the Spanish American writer George Santayana said
that. And it's true that you got to learn about from the past so
things can change in the future.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, I hope that our current
politicians take that in->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: It worries me.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It always does. Well, thank you. I
appreciate it.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Thank you.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Good morning.
>> Carlene Tinker: How you doing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK, I guess.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, welcome to Special Collections Research
Center. This is where we are conducting our interviews for the
Issei to Gosei interview project. And I'm so happy that you've
agreed to be part of that. Today is Thursday, April 11th, 2019
and it's 10:02. OK. So let's begin. But before I actually get
into asking you questions about your family, let me describe why
we call the Issei to Gosei interview project as we did.
Technically we wanted to interview people from each of the
generations of Japanese Americans or Japanese who came to the
United States but that became a very cumbersome name so we
condensed it. But also for the viewers of your interview let me
explain what the generations are of Japanese. The Issei were the
Japanese who came over probably between the late 1885 to about
1915. Those were the early immigrants from Japan. Their children
who were born here are called the Nisei, second generation. The
children of a Nisei are the Sansei. The children of the Sansei
are the Yonsei. And the children of the Yonsei are the Gosei. So
we actually have a lot of Goseis around, so we'll be including
them as well. Which generation are you a part of?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Third generation, Sansei.
>> Carlene Tinker: Sansei. So your grandparents were born in
Japan and your mother and father were born here?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, that is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. First of all let me have you tell us
what your full name is. Your full name, Ralph.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. My name is Ralph Fumihiro Kumano.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And where did you-- where were you born?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I was born in Gila River, Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: And that was a relocation->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: In the-- Right, in the concentration
camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And date of birth?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: March 4th, 1945.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So you just recently had a birthday.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Give me your recent and your current
residence as I know you live in two different places.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I basically I live in Auberry,
California but also I stay in Sanger, California which is our
family homestead.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. Good. And how long have you been a
resident of California?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: A year after I move-- we moved from
Arizona to California I've been here.
>> Carlene Tinker: And so essentially-- So how->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Seventy three years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Seventy three years. So, you have a lot of
experience and knowledge and rightfully so. Also-- I know you
have a very varied background in education. Can you describe
briefly what kinds of occupations you've had and what kind of
education you've had.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I've worked in the farm industry
when I was a kid, picking grapes and harvesting peaches and
working with the orange trees, the citrus pests that were there.
And also going to college I worked during the summers for HuntWesson Foods.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which food?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Hunt-Wesson Foods.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: They make tomato cannery in Davis.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And also with Pet Foods in Sanger. And
then once I-- I eventually started teaching. I got a job with-while I was in graduate school I got a job with the National
Park Service for summers.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And that's how you became a ranger [
Naturalist. In the National Park service].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I was basically the-- as far as I
know the first Japanese American back country ranger, wilderness
ranger we call that-- they call us 90-day wonders since we're up
there for 90 days roughly in Kings Canyon in Sequoia National
Park. And this is in the '70s->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and early '80s.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow. So how long were you a ranger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: For about 12 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Twelve years and-- but you also taught
sometime. Was that before you went to->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: While I was at graduate school I
started doing the Park Service and then when I got my permanent
teaching job that was the other nine months.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then your permanent-- your first job
was in Southern California.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, Southern California, La Cañada
Flintridge, California and all that.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: At Foothill Intermediate School.
>> Carlene Tinker: Pardon me.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Once you get-- Foothill Intermediate
School which eventually became a part of La Cañada High School->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- which was a 7 through 12 school.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then how long did you teach there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I was there 18 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Whoa. And then you eventually came here to
Fresno. I believe you taught for Fresno Unified.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that true? And where did you teach there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I came back in the-- I took a leave
there because my dad had Parkinson's. And so I came back and
helped my mom with my dad. And got a job in Fresno Unified in
the '90s and retired in 2003 but I was at various junior high
schools such as Kings Canyon Middle School and Tenaya Middle
School. And then eventually I got a job at McLane High School.
And that's where I retired after nine years->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- in 2003.
>> Carlene Tinker: And then also you taught at a community
college.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I also I was the adjunct while I
was looking for a job, adjunct teacher or instructor at Reedley
College and at the Fresno City College since 1990 to 2012, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's amazing. Well, you definitely have a
lot to give to kids. I mean, you being a park ranger I think in
itself is really a wonderful thing to share with your students.
When did you officially retire?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I retired in 2003 from Fresno Unified
since that was the basically full time job and then I get the
teaching of biology class at City College.
>> Carlene Tinker: How long did you do that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Until 2012, so->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- another->> Carlene Tinker: So then->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- nine more years.
>> Carlene Tinker: So basically 2012 is when you've-- you
officially retired from teaching.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Well, we'll get into whatever other
activities you are doing later when we talk about your current
activities. Now, I usually start our interviews with talking
about your grandparents because that I think is really where
your story begins. And we want to capture some background
information so we can understand where you're coming from. OK.
So, let's talk about your grandpa. What about your grandpa?
Which on the father side?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. My grandfather came over from
Hiroshima, Japan and at the turn of the century to Hawaii, which
at the time was offering jobs to Japanese immigrants for-- under
sugarcane plantation. And then eventually since Hawaii was a
territory of the United States at that time-- thanks.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, I think a lot of Japanese did that->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: He-- Right. And so he came over to the
states and started working in agriculture since that was his
occupation in Japan.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wait. Let me back up a second. Which island
did he go to first, which Hawaiian island? Didn't you say he
went to the Hawaiian island?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which one?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I believe it was Oahu, the main->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- you know the->> Carlene Tinker: OK. And then from there did he come to the
United-- to the mainland?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. And then he settled in the Sanger
area because that was an agricultural farming area.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK, he->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And that->> Carlene Tinker: He can't-- I wanted to ask about that. Some
of the people who came from the islands, you know, when the
sugarcanes, they actually went to Seattle. I was wondering why
your father-- grandpa came to Sanger. Did he know somebody or is
it just the fact that it was agricultural?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It was-- There were quite a few
people. In fact this area in Fresno County was mainly from-people from Hiroshima. So that's probably where he had some
information about coming here whether he had a friend, I don't
know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. That's very plausible.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now you said Hiroshima is on the Shikoku
Island [Actually on Honshu]. I didn't realize. I thought it was
part of Honshu. It is [on Shikoku, then].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, it's southern Japan island, you
know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I learn something every day. Yeah. OK.
So your grandpa was a farm laborer. What about your grandmother?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My grandmother, he knew the family
back in Japan and so back in those days if they needed a spouse
they would have what they call a picture bride. And so he would
send his picture back to Japan and they would communicate. She
would send her picture and then he-- she-- that my grandmother
eventually came over to the United States when he was here and->> Carlene Tinker: Was she a lot younger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She was one year older actually and-But the picture that he sent was his younger brother so-- well,
there's a miscommunication in age. But anyway-- so they got
married and settled in Sanger in the Sanger area. And that's
when my father was born in 1910.
>> Carlene Tinker: 1910. And then what about your maternal side,
like your grandmother. Do you know anything about that line?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. My grandmother actually was
living in Hawaii at the time, on Hawaii and that line eventually
came over to the United States. I never met my mother's
grandfather or her father actually. But, you know, my
grandmother on her side I knew->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and she lived in Selma which she
was about 12 miles away from Sanger. So we lived in the same
area->> Carlene Tinker: So you had a chance to meet that side as
well? Oh, that's great. So your dad was born in 1910. And what
about your mom, how did she get into the picture? Was she living
in the Sanger area at the time when [inaudible]?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, she was born in-- My dad was
born in Fresno and my mom was born in Biola which is to the west
side of Fresno.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then eventually moved to the Selma
area. But my dad met my mom I guess through friends at the time
they have matched marriages and so.
>> Carlene Tinker: What's the Japanese term for that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think baishakunin. And so they had a
matchmaker that matched them up and eventually got married in
1938.
>> Carlene Tinker: Were they essentially the same age as well?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My mom was born in 1916. So six years
younger.
>> Carlene Tinker: Six years younger. Yeah. So obviously that
worked out pretty well. They had five children, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Do you want to name the children?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. My-- The first child was my
oldest sister, Shirley Yasue. Then came-- and she was born in
1939 [1940]. And my next sister was Irene Yukiye and she was
born in 1940 [1941]. And my brother, older brother was born in
1943, Thomas Masaru. And then I came along in '45. And then my
younger brother Carl Shuji was born in Fresno in 1946.
>> Carlene Tinker: But wasn't your youngest brother conceived in
camp?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was conceived in camp but he
was->> Carlene Tinker: So technically there were three, three who
were->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Born in camp, correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Let's see here. What were their
experiences, your grandparents and your parents? Did they face a
lot of discrimination?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, it was the usual discrimination
I suppose all immigrants faced before the war because they were
different and trying to make a living here. And so you get
racism or discrimination because people don't understand->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Now->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- the other cultures and the people.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were farmers, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: What crops did they grow?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My father was basically a farm
laborer. So he worked with the grapes to the Thompson's raisins>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- in the area.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Yeah, I know that a lot of Japanese who
came were strawberry farmers and that was a critical crop
because that can't-- there were a lot of people who were not
Japanese who were raising strawberries and there was this
economic conflict and probably the basis of a lot of racism and
discrimination. And I'm sure that's true with raisins too. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We had after the war we were
growing strawberries even in Sanger with the Fresno strawberry
exchange. So that was profitable->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- at one time because the Japanese
had the whole market in the central California.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Yeah. And now the local people, the
local immigrants, the Hmongs have really encroached on that
crop->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- and a lot of them are raising strawberries
then they have the stands along the roads. Yeah. So your parents
were married by baishakunin and they had five children. Now,
tell me what was their experience like in 1942 or 1941 when the- when Pearl Harbor was bombed, what did your-- of course you
weren't born yet but you have ideas in about what they were
experiencing. How did-- What do you think they felt? They're not
citizens, right? Your parents? No, your parents were->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, my parents were citizens.
>> Carlene Tinker: Your grandparents, but yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My grandparents were.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. But all of a sudden your grandparents I
think were still alive at that point, weren't they?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So their home country is at war with the
United States. Pearl Harbor gets bombed and then in 1942
February 19th the Executive Order 9066 is declared and war is
declared and all of a sudden we have to move as Japanese to
evacuation camps. OK. So how did they experience? What were
their experiences like during this time?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That I don't know because my parents,
the grandparents never talked about their experience.
>> Carlene Tinker: Very typical, very typical.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so they kept that part quiet and
I've been more aware, I probably would have asked them questions
but at that time they were-- they kept silent on those issues
and, you know, a lot of the things when I was growing up we
never knew what happened until->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- much later.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. Well, OK. So then all of a
sudden we are told that we have only a short time to pack up our
things and move. We were told that in probably March. OK. And
then California is divided, the whole West Coast is divided into
two military zones. Military was zone one and two, is that
correct?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So, obviously they had to do something
with us because that was the declaration that we had to be moved
from the West Coast because we were seen as the potential
enemies. OK. So your parents were living in military zone 2, is
that right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That is correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: How did that designation occur? Was Highway
99 sort of the dividing boundary or is that just coincidental?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think it was 99 and also East West
was either highway 180 or Belmont Avenue. One of those streets
going east and west because people to the north of Sanger went
into a different camp in the one south of 180 or Belmont.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, in the mean time while these
camps were being built-- and there were 10 of them as I recall.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Two of them in California. All right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: But the others were east->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- of California. I happen to have been in
Amache which is in Colorado. OK. Well, the barracks and so forth
were not built at that time. So what happened to the people who
were waiting? We had to get out of our houses and stuff, where
do those people go?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Once the western civil-- what is
it called, the Civil Defense Association put the posters on the
telephone poles about the evacuation, people had six to two
weeks-- six days to two weeks to pack up and get rid of property
and get ready to move. They either had to sell their property or
find friends to take it over. But anyway mainly people in-- war
zone 1 because that was critical. They were closer to the coast.
And so, they had to go to assembly centers and then eventually
to the permanent camps. Whereas we were in war zone 2 and so all
we have to do is check in to the office of the WCCA which is
part of the War Relocation Authority and got our family number
and ID tags. And then they told us we got to-- have to go to the
camp on our own. So we were able to take a vehicle which is->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- my dad's pickup and-- or truck and
go all the way to->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but you didn't->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- you didn't do that until probably August
or September, would that be right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Because the-- It took a while for the
barracks to be built up and of course a lot of people arrived at
these camps when the building was not complete.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right. And some of them helped build
them too along with the Native Indians. Both of the camps in
Arizona were on Indian reservation, the only two camps. And so,
some of the Indians probably were hired to help.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. You were in Gila and the other one was
Poston.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Was in Poston right along the coast of
the border between California and Arizona.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And you were in-- which part of Gila?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We were in the Canal Camp which Gila
Camp was divided into the Butte Camp and the Canal Camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the Canal Camp was the one that
was further east closer to I-10.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. OK. Now getting back to your family ID,
what was the number again?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Our family, our ID->> Carlene Tinker: Do you have a->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think I had it. It was-- I think
it's 40896.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, right. And I learned recently after
doing some reading that the father of who was-- whatever the
number was, he would have a letter A after his name-- a number.
And then the mother would be B and then their first child would
be C, D, et cetera. And then that's how we got recognized. That
was our->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: -- identity.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so they had nametags that you put
on each person as well as your belongings.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Do you want to look for your tag and
see if you have that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I have.
>> Carlene Tinker: I see you have a lot of pictures. We'll look
at those [in] a little bit.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So, here's an example of the name tag.
This was a poster that was done for the exhibit, the 9066 a
couple years ago but this was our family here at the time. But
they had the name of the family and then ID number. This one
says, 040896. And so that was the name tag. I doubt if they had
this barcode but each of the tags were->> Carlene Tinker: You want to point out who those people are in
the pictures?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, I have a better picture of the
group here. OK.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is a much larger picture of the
same small picture that you saw. This is my dad, Thomas Katsuo.
This is my mom Chiyeko. This is my older sister Shirley Yasue.
This is my-- the younger of the two sisters Irene Yukiye. This
is my older brother Thomas Masaru. This is me. And this is my
younger brother ->> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- Carl Shuji.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. That's great. That's great. And all of
your siblings are surviving, right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No. Except for my older brother passed
away in 2012 from complications with diabetes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. How unfortunate, but very nice picture.
Thank you for sharing that. OK. So your family was getting back
to the fact that you were in war zone 2 did not have to go to
assembly center. And of course in Fresno we had two assembly
centers, one in Pinedale and one in the Fairgrounds. OK. The one
in Pinedale had people coming I think from Seattle. Is that
correct?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, Washington and also people from I
think some from Oregon and some from Sacramento.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. OK. And then the ones from-- at Fresno
were local->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Local area, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And then of course what you just
described about the dividing lines depending on where you lived
you decide-- they decided where you went to camp. OK. In my case
I was in southern California and even though we had relatives
nearby, I, for example, was in Boyle Heights. My cousin was his- they were strawberry farmers in Westminster. We got sent to
two different places. Yeah. And I was in Santa Anita. And even
people within Santa Anita got split up. So they really wanted to
mix us up and not have a chance to conspire I guess.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. I think that there was some type
of plan that had to be planned. But a lot of the people, they-before the evacuation actually started from the Los Angeles area
because they knew that area was going to be evacuated first,
they came to the valley here and stayed with the relatives. And
somehow they got sent to the same camp that they were with the
relatives here rather than getting split up.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so that happened but there was all
kinds of movement and->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- splitting up.
>> Carlene Tinker: And what you read is so different from what
actually happened.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: I know one family, there was a very short
window between the time that the posters were posted to tell us
to get ready to get out that you could actually leave on your
own volition. OK. And if you had somebody in the Midwest or some
place who had a job or who could be your sponsor you could go.
So some people left that way. But getting back to your family
which I think is really cool. Your family-- your dad had a truck
and who did they load up on the truck when he was ready to
leave?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We-- he had my two grandparents
and then he had his wife, my mom, and then my two younger
sisters, so six.
>> Carlene Tinker: Six people.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Six people on the truck plus the
belongings.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. What kind of truck? Do you have any
idea?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I believe it was a Ford truck but I'm
not so--
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And so, sort of like the dust bowl in
reverse.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: So->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The whole thing I was thinking of is
since that was a distance away I knew at the time later on that
there were a lot of service stations that wouldn't sell gas to
especially the Japanese. And so I don't know if my dad was able
to anticipate that and brought his own gas but I never was able
to talk to him about->> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- how he would make the whole trip.
>> Carlene Tinker: How long a trip would it be driving from
Fresno to Arizona?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, usually by modern car it's about
10 hours taking the freeways but today that was-- that's today
but back in those days probably took at least two days.
>> Carlene Tinker: At least two days, yeah. And then of course
they weren't served and I'm sure in a lot of places.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So when they got there things were not
really very comfortable, OK. Your dad was a welder at that time,
is that right?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And your-- What was your mom doing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She is just a housewife.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And she was just caring for kids?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Right. And right-- And at that time,
right, she just had the-- her two younger [young] daughters and
then-- in '43 my brother came into the world, so. And '42 those- she might-- he might have been conceived somewhere in that
area, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So basically they were in camp for
three years, '42 to '45?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: So what were the conditions like? Do you have
any idea what they did for a living?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, when we got there all I know was
most of those camps were built very similar because of the
blueprints. They were about a hundred feet long divided up into
four apartments basically and about 24, 25 feet wide. And so
each family of six basically got one of those what they call an
apartment, 25 by 20. And so in the room there was no partitions.
There was just one light and a stove. And so-- And then bunk
beds of course so the people had to do with that small space to
have their whole family. But if they were a couple then they got
moved in with another family. And so without partitions there
was no privacy, so they used ropes and blankets to make the
partitions to have->> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- a little compartment inside the
room->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- which is just an open room.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. Sounds like all of them were
basically built the same.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They were tarpaper, wood. The
construction was very quick. So there were gaps in the wood and
so wind would come through and the floor, there was not a
carpet. So we had-- my mom would say there was gaps about a
quarter inch on the floor and you'd have scorpions or spiders
coming through. But eventually as the time passed they were-people were able to go into Phoenix and purchase some items to
help rebuild the inside of the->> Carlene Tinker: On, can make it a->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- room, putting a carpet and putting
in curtains and things like that to make it livable.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, I know life was pretty boring
for people. So your dad was a welder as I've said, but he didn't
do that for a living in camp. Why didn't he not do that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, he was basically, yeah, he was
a-- I would say when he was working as a job before where he
went to camp he was a farmer at one time and then he quit that
because of the crop loss and decided to go on a different
direction. So he was good at fixing tractors and mechanical
things. So he bought a shop and he became a welder making farm
equipment and vineyard wagons and clothesline poles and things
like that. And so that's what his occupation was at the time. He
also was a land leveler. He had a Caterpillar tractor and he
would go out. This was in the '30-- late '30s and early '40s. He
would pull out grape vineyards and level the land. And at that
time I was looking at some of his books and it said that he
worked 18 hours at $1 an hour->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- doing that type of job. But at the
time the area in the Sanger area was not exactly flat, so having
a Caterpillar and leveling the land was pretty good business.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So you are always working. And so
that's what he did.
>> Carlene Tinker: So he was very skilled->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And he was skilled and somehow he
learned about welding. Whether he went to school or I know he
didn't go to college, he graduated in-- from Edison Technical
School in 1929 with a high school diploma. But he might have got
some type of training because he became an excellent welder.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And->> Carlene Tinker: So when->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So when he went in camp one of the
things that they asked him is, "Do you want to be a welder?" And
at that time welders would get quite a bit an hour. And if you
were in the camp the highest salary you can get if you were a
professional was less than what the private that was guarding
the camp would get, which is-- at first it was $18 then it went
up to $21 but still that was $18 a month, not an hour. And then
if you were a skilled person you got 18. And then the-- If you
were unskilled you got as low as $8 a month. And so some of
these people if they didn't have much to do and they wanted some
pocket change, then they would work for that price. But my dad
wouldn't do the welding because he said, "I should get paid a
lot more."
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so he was kind of put on a black
ball list because he didn't offer to work, because they had to
call in someone from Phoenix to do the welding.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my goodness. So what did he do instead? It
must have been really boring?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Oh, yeah. So they did hobbies, you
know. He was-- At that time, he was 32 and so he was still
pretty good athlete so he bought-- brought some baseball
[equipment] and some of the older people had old timer's games
that they played baseball. And during the idle times they did
hobbies like make things from wood that they found either
throwaway wood that the camp was throwing away or go out if they
were able to get outside, pick up some of the desert plants, the
mesquite and the ironwood and the palo verde and things like
that where they could use the wood to craft different items.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, I noticed that you brought a couple of
things that he crafted.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. That-- Well, some of the things
that they crafted were these canes and you could see the
different types that they made. So they had equipment to use and
I don't know how crude the equipment was where they had actual
tables or things or just regular handsaws but this one here was
made out of ironwood because you could see the different color.
Ironwood is a very strong wood but that->> Carlene Tinker: I noticed how they fused the handle to the
[cane].
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's from the->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Where they could put it together but
they would make all kinds of plaques and statues and things out
of ironwood because it was a very heavy wood.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, now would also-- didn't they build
little birds and they make little->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, my dad also made birds-- I don't
have examples because they are being shown in a museum but we
have a book where we had some of the artifacts that was
photographed. And so, some of the bird pins that you see in this
book here.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: My dad was able to collect them after
the camp and you could see the steps that they went through, the
artwork of painting them and cutting them out and sanding them
and then putting->> Carlene Tinker: And they became pins?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. And then they would trade with
people at different camps too. So not just the Gila Camp but the
other camps also knew about bird pins and they were making them
as a hobby.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, I actually-- my mom had one. I don't
know what happened to it, but yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But there was-- yeah. All kinds of
different things that they would make out of wood or the women
would sew different things plus they were making what they call
handbags->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah, totes and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- with-- totes with the extra
ironwood handles and things like that. But, you know, they had
to be creative and then make these things so that they can use
this furniture or they could trade someone else for some other
item.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. I know some beautiful pieces of chest
of drawers and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Those that were skilled, man,
they-- yeah, these carpenters, they could make all sorts of
tables and->> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and chests and chairs, all kinds of
different types of chairs.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Yeah. There is a woman named Delphine
Hirasuna has written a book called "The Art of Gaman" showing
some of these priceless things. They are just amazing. And to
figure out to understand that people were doing this with very
rudimentary tools and so->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. It's just amazing. By the way, I just
said that word gaman. What does that mean?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Gaman actually is a-- means
perseverance through these times that you go through without
showing any blame or anything. They just tried to do these
things or make these things and keep the respect of what they
were trying to show by making these things in the camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Right. And then there's another idea
that probably allowed these people to combat boredom and the
fact that they were incarcerated that was-- what was that
expression, shikata ga nai, would you want to explain that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Shikata ga nai means what's the
use or also it means it can't be helped. You're in this
situation and you just put up with it the best you can.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, yeah. It is what it is.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. And so you don't fight it.
You just have to go along with it.
>> Carlene Tinker: That must have really carried these people
through.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, especially the older Isseis
and the Niseis. The-- some of the younger kids, of course, they
would-- they like to rebel on certain things because they-they're a little bit better educated and they knew that, you
know, we should be in this situation.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We were in camp with [out] our civil
liberties and without a trial of which is against the
constitution.
>> Carlene Tinker: Absolutely.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the younger kids realized how come
no one is rebellion against this?
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But the older people, they just went
with the flow.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because they didn't want to toss waves
and they figure that in the end that everything will come out,
you know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Come out the way it should but you
never know. And that's why some of the younger kids were always
combating. You know, they would have arguments with their
parents or things like that in camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, one of the things that happened during
the time probably about 1943, '44, there was a very questionable
survey that was administered.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Oh yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: You want to talk about that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: There was a-- we call the loyalty oath
that was passed by our government. And the reason was they
wanted to get some more soldiers and so they saw an opportunity
that all these 10 different camps had almost 60-- 6000 Japanese
Americans in it. And so some of them were of age and so the
loyalty oath actually was given to people that were 17 years and
older. And so if they were going draft up the Japanese Americans
then, of course, they wanted to make sure that they were loyal.
And it wasn't given to any other group of Americans but the
Japanese Americans had to answer the two questions, which are
very-- both very controversial. Question number 27, are you
willing to serve in the armed forces of the United Stated on
combat duty whenever ordered? So this is, are you willing to
fight for the country? And my dad, of course, said “no” because
he had his wife and kids and grandparents in camp. And so he
wasn't willing to risk dying for the country if that happened
and then he didn't know what the situation would be for the
family, you know, who's going to take care of them. And so he
answered “no” on that one. The second one basically was to-against-- It was basically against a lot of the Isseis which
were not even American citizens. So they couldn't even be
naturalized. And had they answered this one then they would be
people without a country. So they were put in a quandary and the
question said, will you swear unqualified allegiance to the
United States of America and faithfully defend the United States
from any or all attack by foreign or domestic forces? And here's
the kicker, forswear from any form of allegiance or obedience to
the Japanese emperor to any other foreign government power or
organization. And so, that one was confusing. And so here, like
my dad, he didn't have any idea of the emperor personally. He
wasn't a Japanese national so he answered, of course, on that
one, “yes”. He would forswear that. But if you were an Issei and
you were a Japanese national and you couldn't have the American
or US citizenship, then you're going to forswear against the
emperor and therefore, you're a person without a country. So--
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. So your dad and mom, I assumed, she
answered the same way->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were “no,” “yes.” And “no” on 27 and he
has->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. But if somebody answered “no” on both of
them, what happened to them?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They're “no”-- They were called
the “no-no boys.” And then some of the camps such as Heart
Mountain, there was a big constituent of the “no-no boys.” And
they actually had meetings and even riots in those camps. But
most of the camps if you were a “no-no” then you got sent to
Tule Lake, which was a segregation camp. And so they already had
about 15,000 but all these people that were “no-nos” started
going there and became the largest of the 10 camps. And so they
had to move people from that camp to other camps->> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- because basically, in the long-run,
what they were going to do with all these “no-no” persons were
going to be exchanged. They're going to either send them back to
Japan exchanged for prisoners of war, and that some of them I
think did go back early in the days but the most of them stayed
at Tule before-- because of the-- they couldn't the arrangements
of shipping them across the ocean.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And then now I understand there were
some people who voluntarily left expatriated who did go to Japan
and some people actually renounced their citizenship.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Citizenship, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And I think in the long run, those
people who decided not to go to Japan and not to, you know,
after they have done it, they fought for their citizenship to be
restored and it took about 20 years.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: And I think there was a lawyer by the name of
Collins who was responsible for reinstating their citizenship.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And some of them, because they are
called the renunciants since they lost their citizenship, I
think one person paid $25,000 to get a citizenship back.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So it was something that should have
been restored easily without having to go through these
channels.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my god, wow.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because the people were put in this
situation where, you know, you-- it's a dilemma. What do you-What choice do you take? Just like these loyalty questions.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, I understand too that the loyalty
question survey that had these questions in it were mistakenly
given to groups of people. Wasn't it just supposed to be going
to the young men or am I wrong on that?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I don't know but all I know is that
everyone over 17 and older.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- took it and then the-- and then a
lot of the Isseis, if they didn't understand the question and
they left it blank or they put a question mark, that was the
same as saying that it was a “no” and so that's what they did.
They didn't even go back and requestion them.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And then Tule Lake becoming the
segregation center and having all these people who were
supposedly pro-Japan. I mean there was hostility and fights. And
I guess there was a stockade.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, yeah. Tule Lake also had a
stockade which is much like a Guantanamo of recent times and
where they-- people would get beaten in the stockades.
>> Carlen Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And there wasn't a very good hospital
there so there had-- they had all kinds of problems with the
people getting hurt and not->> Carlene Tinker: There's a current movie. Let's see, what is
that called, Allegiant? No, not Allegiance. There's another
movie about Tule Lake, young man whose grandfather I think was
there-- produces. And the name of the movie escapes me at the
moment.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. I can't think of it either.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but-- And also this pro-Japan group
that was in Tule Lake, the Hoshi Dan.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were very militaristic and they used to
march around.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah. Which I think in itself is
interesting that before-- If you were not that committed to go
into Japan and having this going on around you and you got sent
there because you said “no,” “no,” oh, I mean what I volatile
situation it was. Yeah. Well, fortunately->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That was one of the camps that the-the commandant I would say or whoever was in charge of the camp,
they actually brought in tanks to quell the riots and->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: One of the few of the camps were, you
know, the military had to intercede to get peace.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right. I do remember this.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow, wow. So anyway, getting back to your
parents, they stayed there until 1945. How did they get back to
Sanger? Did they drive the truck again or->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. After the-- what was winding
down then people were being led out of the camp. And eventually,
the camp was going to be-- were going to be closed. But people
started leaving the camps going to-- Most of the jobs they could
go to the East Coast but the West Coast was still kind off
limits until the camps were closed in '46. But some people were
able to go there and explore to see if they would be able to get
back to where their homes were, if they were be able to have
them saved.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yes. I recall they were given a pittance of
severance, what-- $25 for the bus ticket and->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And a
a free ticket anywhere. So that
Camp, the only ones left were a
brought over but-- And then the
free-- yeah, and a bus ticket or
was that. And my dad at the Gila
few of the Hawaiians that they
Indians. But they closed the
Gila Camp first [Sept. 28, 1945] and then they moved to the
Butte Camp was the last one of the two camps that closed [Nov.
10, 1945, last to leave were 155 Hawaiian Japanese brought from
Oahu]. So my dad was the last Japanese American out of the Gila
[Canal] Camp and he never signed out so he never got his $25 for
each of the people. So the government still must owed some money
there.
>> Carlene Tinker: But he still had his truck there? And the
same truck.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was able to drive the truck
back to Sanger. But->> Carlene Tinker: But now he had two more-- two more children.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. He had two more children but one
less [more] because my grandfather [died in camp] -- I will show
you the picture. This is a early picture of my grandfather but
he was born in the 1880s and then he died in 1943 from
intestinal disorder. And then my grandmother did survive the
camp and lived to 1953, so she was able to come back out of the
camp.
>> Carlene Tinker: She came back with->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. How tall was your grandpa?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: That I don't know.
>> Carlene Tinker: He looks pretty sharp.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But I imagine my dad was 5'5", 5'6"
so, you know, he was probably short too.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, how tall are you?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I'm 5'7" and a half, 5'8", but I'm the
tallest in my family but my mom was 4'10", so->> Carlene Tinker: Whoa, you didn't have a chance.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I didn't have a chance because I
didn't have all-- I have a lot of short genes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Were you going to show us another picture of
your->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. I just wanted to show a picture
of-- oh, my parents in their early days.
>> Carlene Tinker: Beautiful.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And there's my dad and there's my mom
but this is in the early 1940s.
>> Carlene Tinker: Beautiful.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. Before they had all the kids and
then the latest picture-- let me just show you. Well, this was a
picture that was in 1959 of the family. So when we're a little
bit more->> Carlene Tinker: Very handsome.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- away from the end of the camps and>> Carlene Tinker: What year did you say this->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is '49.
>> Carlene Tinker: '49.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: So this is about 15 years after. And
so->> Carlene Tinker: Not '49 but->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: This is '59.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, '59, I'm sorry. I heard '49.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, 1959.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We were-- I was in high school
and my sisters graduated so->> Carlene Tinker: Which one is you?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I'm-- I can't even find it, oh,
this one right here.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, the tall-- and, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. So your parents came back to Sanger, what
did they do? Did they find everything gone?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. My-- We were kind of lucky because
the local constable, we didn't have a police department in
Sanger back in '42. And so the constable, Charlie Dever [assumed
spelling] stayed at our house and watched the house and the
shop. And so our property was pretty much saved except for other
things that happened. But we were able to get back our property.
When we came back from Gila we had three other families that
also came with us because they didn't have a place to stay. And
they wanted to come back to the West Coast. And so our shop was
a metal shop with cement floor. And during the wintertime it
could get very cold in there because of poor insulation but
that's where the family stayed inside the shop and on the-they-- I guess they probably put wood or some type of insulation
on the floor so you could sleep on the floor and live there. But
one of the things that we use was to-- would not be used today
because of the danger was smudge pots with oil or kerosene.
>> Carlene Tinker: You had those inside?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And we had inside but thank goodness
that the shop wasn't airtight.
>> Carlene Tinker: I'm going to say carbon monoxide.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so-- Yes. The danger of carbon
monoxide, you hear about these people, the family that goes to
sleep but never wakes up. So, luckily that never happened
because it was so airy and a lot of the place this gas was
probably able to get diluted or escape which was a good thing.
>> Carlene Tinker: So what did your dad do when he came back?
Was he-- did he resume his metal work?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He was a-- The whole thing is he
loaned a tractor to a friend of his and the tractor after three
years, the friend was supposed to take care of it but he used it
and ruined it. And so my dad was so mad that the tractor and the
truck that he loaned the person to take care of. He just took
his acetylene torch and just cut it up into sections. And so
when we were a kid we saw this whole pile of tractor parts and
truck parts and we never did ask him why it was there but later
found out that that's what it was, the tractor that he had
loaned. And he was so upset that he just cut it up.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But he was able to still weld and do
his business and--
>> Carlene Tinker: So then he became-- not I was going to say he
did things for auto but now->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, he fixed cars. He->> Carlene Tinker: He did do that too?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. We had a gas pump so he was able
to sell gasoline and->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- and service cars and then mostly,
he was making farm equipment like vineyard wagons and things.
>> Carlene Tinker: But he never went back to the farming part
[inaudible]?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No, no.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK, OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then he eventually, he got into
auto wrecking and became fairly successful doing that so->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- buying cars.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. OK. Let me see here. OK. Let's talk
about you growing up. Now, you're back in California, your
parents are pretty settled. They didn't have to start from
scratch.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. That's why we were lucky. So
I was able to start off my elementary-- kindergarten and
elementary years at Lincoln School which is a couple of blocks
away. And that's where->> Carlene Tinker: Is it still there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It's still there. That's one of the
classic small town schools but-- went there and then eventually
went through the whole Sanger Unified System, graduated from
Sanger High School in 1963.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then moved on to University of
California at Davis.
>> Carlene Tinker: You went there directly after high school?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And then graduated there in '67 as a
entomologist, that was my major, which I changed several times
but that really fit the-- my growing up years working on farms
and then agriculture.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now, when you were in high school or
elementary school, did you face any racism or discrimination?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: We had racism but it wasn't to the
extent where other families faced. We never had our house shot
at.
>> Carlene Tinker: Which somebody did on->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: There are people in the rural areas
that people would go by and shoot up their house. I don't think
anyone was killed but things were damaged. They would take a
baseball bat and knock down their mailbox, things like that,
yell out names, you know, in the middle of the night. We faced
some discrimination walking the wrong town and having people
drive by and yelling out names like Japs and things like that
back in the '50s.
>> Carlene Tinker: How about when you were in school though?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But then in school there wasn't much
because a lot of the-- my peers were also immigrants too. A lot
of Hispanic kids and so we didn't have the big distinction
between races such as black and white.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Although the Asians->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- are a little bit different than the
other races but still we got along with most of them pretty
well.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And your teachers were, you know, nice
to you? They->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. I
didn't feel slighted at all that, you know->> Carlene Tinker: And you were in activities where-- what you
wanted to do.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: You weren't kept out of things. Yeah. OK. So
when you went to Davis, was that the same? In other words, did
you feel any racism there?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: No. Davis was OK. The only time we
felt the racism as a family that I recall was when we went in
the early '50s to Los Angeles. My dad went to pick up some parts
and we're coming back on Highway 99 in San Fernando and we
stopped at a restaurant and they wouldn't serve us so we walked
out.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But things like that happen but that
was one incident that still-- stays in my mind.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Because we see people going in there
and eating. We're sitting down at the chair but no one came up
to us and so we just walked out.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, that was good that you don't have
a lot of memories like that.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. But for the most part it's been
pretty good but->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So then you went to Davis, you got a
degree in entomology.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Entomology, yes, study of insects and
so->> Carlene Tinker: Little insects. And then you-- Did you->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: At that time, the Vietnam War was
going on because in '68 that was one of the heaviest times of
the battle [Did not go because of 2S student deferment from
1963-1967. Reclassified after graduation, went to Selective
Service Office in Fresno, flunked physical due to “flat feet”
and classified as 4F]. And I-- Because I had a [inaudible] and I
finished college, I was thinking of either getting the job as an
entomologist or going to graduate school. So I applied at
graduate school and I got in at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. But
the entomologist job was a part time job down-- there down at
Imperial Beach so I declined that. And once you decline it,
you're back on the bottom of the registry for the state. So I
went to grad school where I picked up my teaching credential and
my masters. And then I eventually from there started teaching in
Southern California in '71.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. And between being a park ranger?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And right. As also being a park
ranger.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right. Now, let's see here. You're
very involved in the Japanese American community. I'm curious
about what has motivated you to be so involved.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, to tell you the truth, because
my family didn't talk about the internment years and things like
that, we were kind of kept out of the loop. And even at our high
school we didn't learn much about World War II and the
internment because we just got up to the end of the civil war
actually in US history. So we were kind of either naive and/or
uneducated on that aspect. But we heard stories about the camp
when my dad would have friends over at the garage and they would
talk about the old days and so that's where we would get bits
and pieces of information. But in the mean time, when we-- was-when we were living in that-- at that time things were going
along pretty good as far as comfort with us. And so I was just
going to college and I wasn't involved in any of the Japanese
American organizations because I had other organizations. And I
know that they were doing things with the redress and trying to
get the Civil Liberties Act passed in 1988. But for some reason,
I was-- My mind was on teaching and coaching and doing other
things at the school. And so once I eventually came to the
Fresno area then I got involved in the local Japanese American
Citizens League in the Sanger chapter. And then I got involved
in other groups dealing with the Japanese community. But it was
a little late but it's better late than never. And so that's why
I'm involved in the Shinzen Garden and Sanger Historical Society
and trying to use a lot of volunteer time for these nonprofit
groups.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, you're doing a wonderful job and I'm
sure everybody appreciates that. You mentioned the redress.
Let's talk about that a little bit. How did that affect your
family? Did they receive money, reparations money?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, of course, anyone->> Carlene Tinker: But first of all, what was the redress? What- Tell us a little bit about the Civil Liberties Act.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: First of all, the redress was trying
to-- I remember back in the '50s, my-- I saw some old letters
where my dad was trying to get compensated for some of the
property lost. And he was trying to go to court and trying to
establish, you know, the value of these things and whether he
would get any compensation. And at that time, they were going to
only give 10 cents and a dollar.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And so one of the things-- I know a
lot of those lawsuits and things didn't go through. Some people
made some money but as a group, the Japanese organization
wanted-- it basically wasn't to restore the amount of loss
because the loss today would be or at that time when the redress
was offered was would have been in the billions but-- So it was
basically a symbolic fine so that the government did something
illegally against the constitution. And so they were given a
fine so they don't-- they won't do it again. And just as some
type of slap on the hand because if you just let things go
without any type of compensation or retribution then, you know,
things can be forgotten too easily.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And as Thomas Jefferson said, the
biggest threat to our American freedom is to ignore the
constitution, and that's what our government did. And so you got
to keep them accountable. And so that's what the redress was
that being formed by the JACL. And they had to go through many
years of trying to get the money available for this. And by the
time the redress actually looked like it was going to be
favorable and a lot of the congressmen start voting for it,
almost half of the people on the camp, 60,000 of the 120,000
passed away. So they didn't get any redress my-- like my two
grandparents on my father side, they didn't get anything. And
then my younger brother, of course, he was born-- conceived in
camp but born outside of camp so he wasn't offered anything. But
the-- My father, mother, and the four kids got the $20,000 check
for being in the camp. And we also got along with that an
apology-- -- from the presidents. There were different apologies
but one of them was, of course-- the last one was by President
Bill Clinton. And here's the White House memo that said, we
apologize for having you put into the camps. And so that was it.
But there was one from Ronald Reagan all the way to->> Carlene Tinker: Wasn't Bush?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Bush, yeah. Also was involved in one
of the letters. But they send out the money in segments. And so
the last one I think came in the late '90s. And then-- I mean
mid '90s and then I think the Peruvians also were trying to get
some money for their time. And I don't know what the Hawaiians
were able to get any redress because they just found some camps
there and, well, they were also involved in getting->> Carlene Tinker: Well, that's an interesting thing about the
Peruvians, FDR and the government of Peru wanted to get rid of
the Japanese there. So they were sent here to Crystal City as I
recall.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And I just read recently I think they
got $5000.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: OK. Yeah, they did get some I think.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And then that's also true, how about
the Canadian Japanese?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. There were some Canadian.
>> Carlene Tinker: They were put in camps as well.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: And I believe they got $5000 I think. And
that's an interesting thing too about the Canadian Japanese. I
met someone recently who was a teacher in Canada and part of
their curriculum is to teach about the internment camps for
Japanese-- Canadian-Japanese which I thought was wonderful. I
don't know if all of them teach that but it's part of their
history as well.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, yeah because a lot of people
didn't realize they had camps, so same with the Hawaiian
Islands.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right, right.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: People didn't know and then now
they're finding out that there are over 20 camps there in
various islands.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. I know that the Peruvians, they had no
country to go back to.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly, because see, when they were-they actually immigrated well like-- my grandparents came to the
United States. They migrated to-- immigrated to South America
and wanted to establish a new life there. And so, a lot of them
own businesses and stores in Peru. And not just Peru there's
also Central America and Mexico had Japanese. But our government
made deals with each of the leaders of those countries because
they were saying the West-- whole West Coast was in danger of
Japanese invasion so we got to get these Japanese moved. And so
the Peruvians-- The FBI went over there and just pulled them out
and they left their family there. A lot of them were married to
Peruvian citizens and-- but the men were taken to Crystal City,
Texas and they-- When they got there they never gave them back
their citizenship papers so they were people without a country
once the war ended. Where did they go? They didn't have a
passport to go back to Peru so it-- They were-- it was a crazy
situation there.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, it seems like even worse than us.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, poor people. Well, let's-- you're-- I
know you said your parents don't-- didn't talk about camp as
well as my parents didn't either. Have you ever visited Gila?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes, I did in the early 2000s and went
to both the Canal Camp and the Butte Camp. Not much left except
the Canal Camp had probably out of the 10 camps the most
fishponds.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, really?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The people-- people were-- Because
there was a canal going by and so there's some water available
and they were able to use the desert rocks. And I don't know if
where they got the cement. They might have been able to buy it
or get it from the camp administrator but each of the barracks
basically had a little fishpond.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's interesting. Yeah, because in our camp
we were in the high desert and I think they had the internees
build only one koi pond. And all the rest of the places, we have
gardens but no fishpond.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. They had-- But a lot of the
camps like Manzanar had victory gardens as well as a major pond.
They had-- I think Manzanar had two major koi ponds, so->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Yeah. I do remember seeing those.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: But they didn't have individual ones->> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, I
didn't know that.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: -- right outside the barracks, so-But the Canal Camp, we had a lot of them. So you could see the
foundations that's left of the blocks and then the fishponds are
still there.
>> Carlene Tinker: Now does Gila-- Do they have or have-- the
internees have reunions?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Not to the extent that the other camps
because they're on Indian reservation.
>> Carlene Tinker: See, Poston I think does.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: I think->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Poston because it's right there on a
major road there, goes right through the Poston Camp from Parker
to Ehrenberg along the Colorado River [Across from Blythe, CA on
I-10. On the road north to Parker, AZ, one would enter the
Colorado River Indian Reservation where the Poston
Concentration Camp was located]. So they do have annual reunions
there. But Gila, since it's further secluded to south of Phoenix
there-- I know they have a Phoenix JACL but every once in a
while you-- they could have tours with the Indians being guides
to the area. But they haven't had major reunions since I think
the late '90s and early 2000s. That's when my mom went there for
the last time.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. And when did your mom pass?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: She passed in 2005.
>> Carlene Tinker: 2005. And your dad?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: 1990.
>> Carlene Tinker: 1990. Oh, that was-- yeah. We got our check
in 1992 for the redress. Yeah, so we-- but he got it. Was he
alive at the time?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yeah. So he was able to get it. And
since my younger brother never got-- my mother gave my dad's to
my younger brother so he was able to get something.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's nice. OK. Now, we have lots of things
that you might want to show some pictures that maybe that might
be interesting to our viewers. You have anything in mind?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: The only one main thing was one of the
key things of the Japanese being evacuated from the West Coast
is because in California the Japanese had probably 90% of the
truck farms. And so they were-- all the vegetables and that--
and things like that, fruit trees also were by Japanese. And
even in the Delta area we had a Japanese that had like 5000
acres who was called the potato king of California. And so there
were some big farmers at the time but the Japanese were so
productive in the raising of the crop per acreage that a lot of
the other farm groups were-- wanted the Japanese out. That's
always been the taste because they were competing for the goods.
And so there was all these groups such as the Native Son-- Sons
of the Golden West, and the American Grange, and the American
Legion. All these groups wanted the Japanese off the West Coast.
And even when they were put in the camp they didn't want them to
return. And so here's an apology, a little late but this is by
the California State Grange. And the president had apologized
for what they did and->> Carlene Tinker: But what year-- When was that letter?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And this letter was in 2014, which is
pretty late but this says, examining our past we recognize that
the Grange was a leader in organizing opposition to Japanese
immigration beginning in 1907. Along with the American Legion,
the State Federation of Labor and the Native Sons of the Golden
West, the grange was active in the Asiatic Exclusion League. And
so this Grange passed the resolution in 1907 was stated that
aliens living in the United States should be barred from buying
and owning land. So this had to do with the alien land laws
also. And so there was all kinds of things that happened that
the people didn't know. And one of our main people that was a
member of the Native Sons of the Golden West was our ex-attorney
general and governor and eventually Supreme Court Justice Earl
Warren. And so, you could see where some of the racism occurred
back then. And I think in his memoirs he regretted it.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, and yeah. I think Warren actually
apologized later, didn't he?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Yes. He apologized way after he was->> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, but still better late than never.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Never, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Now, is there anything else that we
have not covered that maybe you would like to share with our
audience?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I think we-- I can't see anything
else.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, the main thing today was to
understand where you came from, who you represent, and to share
some of your stories about your past, your parents, and
yourself. One of the questions I like to ask everybody is what
do you think your legacy will be? How do you want to be
remembered?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, basically helping out the
Japanese American Community, not just the Japanese American but
just helping out people. That's why I was into teaching is I
wanted to help the kids. And then also another part of my legacy
is because I love nature. I'm a biology teacher and an
ecologist. Working in the national park was a dream of mine that
came true, hiking up there in the high sierra for almost 12
years all summer long. It's one of those dream jobs like being a
John Muir who I learned about later, but yeah, it's cool to be
associated with nature, getting back to the beautiful things
that Mother Nature put where sometimes human society has all
these problems. When you get up into the park it's-- you go with
the flow because everything is so beautiful and so peaceful.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Well, Ralph, I think your goals have
been achieved. I think that people will remember you for what
you've done, not only for your family but also for the Japanese
American community as you continue your association with the
Sanger JACL, Historical Society [Sanger Historical Society] and
other active-- well, Shinzen Gardens [Shinzen Japanese Garden]
also, yeah. And I don't know how you keep it up.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I'm slowing down but one of my
big prizes that I-- if I'm still able to fish that's the thing I
like to do the most. And so->> Carlene Tinker: Well, where do you work-- What kind of
fishing do you do?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I'm basically a bass fisherman and a
trout fisherman but->> Carlene Tinker: Oh, in lakes?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And the trout fishing is in the high
streams and lakes. And so, the reason I retired when I was 58
years old is because when my dad retired when he was back in
1975, he had Parkinson's and one of his goals was-- when he
retired he wanted to go fishing and he couldn't do that. And so
I said I'm not going to end up being denied for a few years at
least something I wanted to do. And so I'm all square now. I've
been retired for-- since 2003, so that's 16 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: And have you gotten any fishing?
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: And I've been fishing and doing
everything I have so my bucket list is pretty well filled and
so->> Carlene Tinker: Good for you, good for you.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: I can go into the sunset anytime with
this->> Carlene Tinker: With your fishing pole in hand.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: With my fishing pole and smile on my
face, exactly.
>> Carlene Tinker: Well, thank you very much, Ralph. I certainly
have appreciated your participation and I'm sure others will.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Well, I appreciate. I hope people can
learn from the story because if you don't remember what happened
in the past, then you're doomed to return it or repeat it. And
so that's what the Spanish American writer George Santayana said
that. And it's true that you got to learn about from the past so
things can change in the future.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. Well, I hope that our current
politicians take that in->> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: Exactly. Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: It worries me.
>> Ralph Fumihiro Kumano: It always does. Well, thank you. I
appreciate it.
>> Carlene Tinker: OK. Thank you.