Fred & Setsu Hirasuna interview
Item
Title
eng
Fred & Setsu Hirasuna interview
Description
eng
Fred Hirasuna talks about how his father and mother immigrated to the United States, moved around a lot before settling in Lodi. He talks about how his father owned a bike shop as well as farmed in Lodi before moving to Fowler in 1922 and buying an automotive repair shop. He talks about graduating from Fowler High School, attending Fresno State briefly before moving to Los Angeles and working in trucking and farming before finishing his degree in 1932, but being unable to find work in his field. He discusses getting work as an accountant and meeting and marrying Setsu before getting into the chick sexing business with his brother-in-law. Fred relates the story of how they were able to avoid going to camp by voluntarily relocating to Minnesota and the journey there. He also relates how his parents asked to be taken to a camp, due to not having any of their peers around, so he arranged to take them to the Jerome War Relocation Center in Arkansas. He talks about coming back to Fresno after the war and starting a packing company. They both talk about Fred's involvement with the Fresno JACL and their membership in other agriculture and business organizations. Lastly, he discusses the changes in agriculture post-war.
Creator
eng
Hirasuna, Fred & Setsu
eng
Taniguchi, Izumi
Relation
eng
JACL-CCDC Japanese American Oral History Collection
Coverage
eng
Fresno, California
Date
eng
1/13/1999
Format
eng
Microsoft Word 2003 document, 24 pages
Rights
eng
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
eng
SCMS_jacl_00026
extracted text
NARRATOR:
FRED AND SETSU HIRASUNA
INTERVIEWER:
IZUMI TANIGUICHI
DATE:
January 19, 1999
IT:
Okay it’s recording now. We can play it back and see if it works.
FH:
My dad went to Hawaii in the 1890’s and served out his labor contract there and then he
went back to Japan and got married to my mother and had their first child there. He came
to the mainland in 1900 and my mother came to the mainland in 1903. They left my
oldest brother whose name is Kaname in Japan. And their history is I think he worked on
the railroad and worked in San Francisco and finally he came to Fowler and that’s near
Fresno and he started a restaurant. From Fowler he went to Lodi and in Lodi he had a
bicycle job and he would farm on the side. That’s my latest recollection. I was born in
Lodi.
IT:
Give me—let me play that back. Okay—
FH:
Now where was I?
IT:
You were in Lodi. You arrived in Lodi.
FH:
Oh yeah.
IT:
At the bicycle shop.
FH:
My dad had a bicycle shop in Lodi but he would farm on the side. No matter what the
business, he had a bicycle shop the whole time I was there. And I was born in 1908 and
we moved to Fowler, to Fowler in 1922 so that was fourteen years in Lodi and all that
time he had a bicycle shop and he would farm on the side. My dad was never too
successful but I mean he was not an outstanding success at making money. And he
moved to—he moved the family to Fowler and he started a garage and in Fowler there
2
HIRASUNA
were already two other Japanese garages in a small town. And he sent my two oldest
brothers, Kaname was born in Japan and came to this country and Takume was born in
this country but he was sent back to Japan for part of his education so he was a Kibei.
And he sent those two to mechanics school and they were supposed to run the garage.
And I guess we stumbled along in that garage and then my oldest brother got into some
kind of a hassle with my father and he left and my second oldest brother Takume also got
into some kind of a hassle with my father and he left and that left the family with a
garage and no mechanics.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
And during that time in the garage I picked up a little mechanical knowledge but I was
never a real mechanic and for a year or so I stumbled around along running the garage.
Finally, we closed the garage and in the meantime I graduated high school in 1926,
Fowler High School and then I went to Fresno State for a year or a year and a half or so.
And then I stopped going because in spite of the low tuitions and all that, our family
didn’t have any money. I went to Los Angeles to work and in Los Angeles, I drove a
truck, I hand-nailed boxes, and loaded cars and all the things all connected with produce.
I finally came back and went back to school and finally graduated in 1932, I was
supposed to graduate in 1930. But in 1932 I had a degree in social sciences and a
Japanese-American with a degree in social sciences, there was no job for him. The
President of the college, his name was Frank Thomas told me one time “You have no
chance of getting a teacher’s job because you are Japanese.” And there I was with a
degree in Social Sciences and no job so I floated around for about a year and finally got
into produce. Setsu, in fact, told me about a man that was looking for a person to work
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HIRASUNA
with him and his name was George Matsuoka and he needed a bookkeeper and I didn’t
know beans about bookkeeping and I hadn’t taken bookkeeping or anything at the time or
a course like that but never the less, I went to Imperial Valley and worked as a
bookkeeper. And the way I picked up bookkeeping, I made some friends with other
people who kept books for other sheds and they told me what to do. So I learned enough
to keep a set of books. But after and this George Matsuoka, he was a crudest man from
way back. One time he had a union fruit company but he went broke.
SH:
You mean Union Brokerage or something?
IT:
Later it became the Union Brokerage.
FH:
Anyway he would in Imperial Valley he would go out and buy a field of lettuce that
wasn’t ready to be harvested again but he would buy it and then he would, the lettuce got
ready he’d send his crew in there to cut it, and pack the lettuce and send it to market. In
those days they used to ice pack lettuce in the sheds, but Matsuoka and a man by the
name of Osuda and some others, they dry-packed it. They would cut the lettuce and pack
it in the field and send it into Los Angeles, Oakland as dry-packed lettuce and when that
season in Imperial Valley was finished, we would go to Delano. And in Delano he
handled the vegetable crop there so we’d go back and forth Delano and Imperial Valley.
And I wasn’t making too much money. In fact when I started, I was making I think a
hundred dollars.
SH:
A hundred dollars a month.
FH:
Yeah. And when I ended up with everything, I wasn’t making much more than that, a
hundred and a quarter and in the meantime Setsu and I got married and we had a baby
and—
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HIRASUNA
IT:
What year was it that you got married?
FH:
Nineteen thirty-six, no, nineteen-thirty five.
SH:
We got married in thirty-five.
FH:
In thirty-five.
SH:
August.
FH:
And well it was just we were getting by—I remember at the last rent we were paying I
think thirty dollars a month for house rent and twenty-five.
SH:
Twenty-five dollars on a car.
FH:
My payment on the car and we had the baby-baby girl so we were eating a lot of soup.
But a, in 1939 Setsu’s brother, Ty, bought a chick-sexing business, International ChickSexing Association from a man by the name of Hatoru, who owned the hatchery and
chicken ranch in Fresno and I think he was pioneer in chick-sexing in this country.
IT:
Was he an Issei?
FH:
Issei and he did that for a couple of years and then he decided he was going to sell the
business and her brother Ty bought the business from him. Then he asked me to come
back and run the business for him. I knew nothing about hatcheries, nothing about
raising chickens, nothing about chick-sexing. But I came back and my first problem was
how to run a chicken ranch and I was going around with a University of California book
in my hand (laughing) trying to figure out how to raise these darn chickens. The Chick
Association we had sexers oh about thirty or forty of them, out in the field we’d find
hatcheries that would hire them at a certain price and we would contract the work and
we’d send the chick-sexers there to do the work and we were taking a percentage of the
chick-sexers earnings that was our income. So we did that—
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HIRASUNA
SH:
Different parts of the country.
FH:
Oh yeah. Like Ty would be running around Minnesota and we had chick-sexers all over.
New York State, Ohio, Iowa, the Dakota’s, Missouri.
IT:
Was that transportation by train then to go to all these places?
FH:
Car.
IT:
Car.
FH:
Yeah, because in chick-sexing you may go to the hatchery at six o’clock in the morning
and be there until midnight sexing the chicks. At first, in the business we were getting
one cent a chick and the chick-sexers were making good money. The competition came
in—remember John Nitta? He was a chick-sexer that started his own school in
Pennsylvania, John Nitta and he called it The American Chick-Sexing Association. Later
he claimed he pioneered chick-sexing but that’s not true. Hatoru pioneered it…
IT:
And that was right here in Fresno.
FH:
Hatoru was in Fresno. But Ty was in Mankato, Minnesota learning that end of the
business. So we were doing that until evacuation time came.
When evacuation came I was in kind of a spot because I had my father, my
mother, my sister to look after you know for evacuation and we had her younger sister so
that year, at first, we decided we’d go to camp. We got our duffle bags and everything
and got all ready to go to camp. But our third child Stewart was born in February of
forty-two. And he was not—he was a little bit sickly I think and there were all these
rumors about these camps no hospitals, no doctors, and no medicines and I got real
worried and I decided I was going to try to go out, not go to camp. For a time there, there
was a volunteering period where you could go without but I think about the end of March
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HIRASUNA
they stopped that voluntary evacuation. So here it was June or so and in order to
evacuate now, I had to get permission from the Western Defense Command. So I got in
touch with the Western Defense Command and I told them that I had a job in Mankato,
Minnesota running chick-sexing out of there and I had these dependents and I wanted a
permit to go back there, voluntary. This is in July now. In July this area was going to go
to camp. Area Two, Area One had already gone to Arkansas.
SH:
Yeah, we were supposed to leave in just a few days.
FH:
Yeah Area Two I think it was headed for Arizona in about ten days I guess before our
deadline came for us to go to camp, I got this permit from the Western Defense
Command to take our family with three little kids, her sister, my sister and my father and
mother, I got a permit for them to go with me to Minnesota. So we went there in two
cars. In the meantime the office stuff—we put into a trailer and pick up and we couldn’t
go up ninety-nine.
IT:
Not with a heavy car.
FH:
Yeah and so they made us—
SH:
Through Yosemite, Tioga Pass.
FH:
That was pretty rough.
SH:
Oh it was awful, I mean just –
FH:
And friends of our Russian-German friends, Mike Boog and his brother, they took the
trailer and the pick up and they went up ninety-nine to Reno. We went over the Tioga to
Carson City and we tried to get a place to stay and the first motel refused us, you know,
Japs from California. So then I decided I went to the best motel in Carson City and they
took us and so we got rooms there and the next day we went to Reno and we met the
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HIRASUNA
Boog two who brought our trailer and pick-up to Reno and we had a couple of guys come
from Minnesota to Reno to take over the pick up. So, and from then on, why we were
stopped by the Nevada Highway Patrol and asked all kinds of questions and wanted to
see our papers and we showed them our papers and so they let us go on. And the first
night we stopped at a place called Winnemucca in Nevada and we knew that there was a
Japanese in Winnemucca with the hotel rooming house because (inaudible) so we went
there and he gave us a room and this is—this is where we are driving into Winnemucca
and a truck load of white guys passed by “Go back to California, you damn Japs.” And I
didn’t know what to expect but his rooms were above a, some kind of saloon or
something.
SH:
And lots of noise.
FH:
Noise
IT:
Must have been a casino down there.
FH:
I don’t know.
SH:
But anyway.
FH:
They were making a lot of noise and I didn’t know what to expect. There I am with
these woman and kids and oh, I expected trouble but fortunately we didn’t have any.
And from there went to Salt Lake City, Des Moines and finally Minnesota. And that’s
how we got to Minnesota so what an experience that was.
IT:
Now in Minnesota did you get involved in any, JACL was in Salt Lake. Did you have
any contact with JACL?
FH:
Yeah, I was an associate member all through the war and in Mankato itself. The women,
they went to church. She was Christian. So they went to Presbyterian Churches I think
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HIRASUNA
but I wouldn’t go because I’m not Christian, I’m not Buddhist, I’m not anything. But I
was asked to go before different groups to explain about evacuation so I was making the
rounds doing that and trying to fill up a favorable atmosphere for our group. Fortunately
or unfortunately, I think we were about the only Japanese family in Mankato. There were
some chick-sexers there. It was the first time a lot of these Mankato people saw Japanese
and they didn’t know what to make of us.
SH:
And one of our neighbor girls later on when we got acquainted with them, she says “We
thought you were real Japs.” So I didn’t know what—
IT:
So you didn’t insist on being American then?
FH:
A couple of the neighbor girls, one of them especially used to be at our house all the time.
She was—
SH:
Twins, twelve.
FH:
Twelve years old.
SH:
All those years.
FH:
She ate Japanese food and took care of our kids. As a matter of fact, we still talk to her.
She is still in Mankato and we talk to her on the phone once or twice or three times a
year.
IT:
You say Japanese food, were you able to get Japanese food?
SH:
Well, you know Japanese food, why usually it’s the “okazu” kind of thing, meat and
vegetables usually.
IT:
But did you ever get “shiyoyu” (soy sauce)?
FH:
Oh yeah.
SH:
We got shiyoyu.
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HIRASUNA
FH:
There was a place in Ohio where Japanese made shiyoyu.
SH:
Yeah we got shiyoyu so.
IT:
And then you mentioned something about taking your parents to Jerome—
FH:
Yeah I took, we took my parents to Mankato, the first morning it was minus twenty-six,
twenty-eight. Storm windows, snow and my dad and my mother, they had no peers to
talk to, you know. The family there but nobody their own age and my father especially
just begged me to get him to camp. And so I said all right I’ll try. There is a Thomas
Howland who belonged to the WRA I guess. War Relocation Authority and I read or
heard that he was going to be in Chicago so I took the train from Mankato to Chicago and
I got an appointment with him and explained what the situation was and I want
permission to take my parents to a camp. And after he heard my story, he was very
sympathetic and said he’d see what he could do. And I think about ten days later he sent
me a permit to take my folks to camp and my sister, I don’t know whether she wanted to
or not, but she consented to go with them, to camp with them. So I took my father and
mother and sister this is in the winter time from Minnesota to Arkansas and put them I
think it was Rohwer camp but I had a brother who was in Rohwer.
IT:
The other Fresno people were in Jerome.
FH:
Yeah, I think so. They were in Jerome. But very truthfully I think my parents had a good
time in camp. My father liked to fish. He could fish all he wanted and he didn’t have to
worry about making money for the next meal. And I think when camp closed, they were
really kind of sorry that it closed.
IT:
When did they leave camp?
FH:
Oh, that was in 1945.
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HIRASUNA
IT:
Where did they go from camp?
FH:
Well, that was after the West Coast was open?
IT:
Uh-huh.
FH:
In 1946, a group of us including Dr. Yatabe, Kikuo Taira, anyway, we got a group and
came to California, so scouting party to see how it was. Well we were on Eleventh Street
her brother owned an acre lot there and during the war he wanted to sell it and I told him
I’ll buy it and I bought that lot for (inaudible) so when I came back in forty-six and saw
the situation, I decided I would build a house for my folks and send them back to
California even though we weren’t there. I had a brother, two brothers here already and
they would kind of look after them. So we built that little house and they lived in that.
IT:
Now did they come directly here from camp?
FH:
No, they came to Chicago first where I had a brother, then from Chicago they came to
Fresno.
SH:
They didn’t stay very long in Chicago.
FH:
No they didn’t.
SH:
It was just a stop.
FH:
Enough for my dad to get his wallet stolen.
IT:
Then shortly after that did you move back?
FH:
We moved back in the winter of forty-seven. By that time they had that little house built
and they were living in it. We lived—when we came back we lived in her folks’ old
home which is still there. And—
IT:
Now did you continue with the chick-sexing business here?
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FH:
HIRASUNA
No, when I left in forty-seven I told my brother-in-law that I’ve got three little kids and I
can’t do it on the kind of wages I’m getting, I think it was a hundred and fifty a month or
something so I told him I was going to quit and go back to California and see if I can start
something. So that’s why I came back to California and fooled around a while trying to
find something to do. And I landed back in produce so that’s how we started 1948—Min
Nomada and a fellow by the name of Morris Accola who died recently.
IT:
Just this weekend.
FH:
Yeah. We founded a partnership and started Sunnyside Packing.
IT:
And where were you located, your first packing house?
FH:
In Fresno.
IT:
Where in Fresno?
FH:
Oh Ventura and the railroad tracks there. There was a sort of a big warehouse there and
we started there and after that we moved to—
SH:
To G Street?
FH:
No, we moved to, I guess so, and on G Street we built—see we really didn’t pack—well
we packed tomatoes. But other things, the growers packed and brought it into us and we
sold it for them.
IT:
What kinds of produce did you start out in?
FH:
I guess it was tomatoes and all the spring vegetables and finally we got into fruits.
IT:
Where was the market?
FH:
Markets were in Oakland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
SH:
And we were the strawberry exchange for a while we were—
12
FH:
HIRASUNA
(inaudible) yeah the Strawberry exchange started in 1948 or forty-nine. After we came
back, we were looking for people to come to us to sell for them and at that time there was
a group of strawberry growers. Strawberry growing was very prominent before the war.
It was a big association, and then after the war, why they started with strawberries again
and there was a fellow by the name of Eddie. Well, anyway, he had a group of
strawberry growers that he sold for but then we got them all together and they gave us the
whole deal to sell for them, the strawberry exchange. Strawberries was one of our big
commodities by that time. It really—we sold the strawberry exchange until they closed
their doors. The reason they closed their doors was because strawberry growers became
fewer and fewer and volume became less and less and there was no longer enough
volume to keep a separate strawberry exchange so we more or less took that over.
IT:
Now when you—the market was San Francisco, Los Angeles and so on, did you sell to
stores or did you go through another—
FH:
Through distributors.
IT:
Through distributors?
FH:
(inaudible) oh we sold to Safeway to Safeway, Lucky Stores so it was a combination.
IT:
Back then Safeway and A &P?
FH:
A & P was in the Midwest and Safeway was in—
IT:
There was an A & P in Los Angeles so—
FH:
Yeah we might of, but I can’t remember. We sold to people in Canada and for a period,
we shipped strawberries to Europe. So—
IT:
To Europe—how did it go by?
FH:
It couldn’t have been by plane. It must have been by ship.
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HIRASUNA
SH:
It couldn’t last that long.
IT:
In the forties and fifties?
FH:
I can’t remember. I remember we shipped strawberries to Hawaii and they went in boats.
There would be a van or trailer we’d load and pre-cool in the van and then transfer the
van to the ship.
IT:
When did you start pre-cooling?
FH:
It must have been in the forties or early fifties because you had to have the facility to—
well when we built our packing house on G Street, we had a small pre-cooling plant there
but the volume was so large that we went to Midland, called Midland Cold Storage which
was on Ventura near the Santa Fe track, the Santa Fe track and they had a pretty big deal
and we’d pre-cool there, we’d rent there. We did that until we built our place in Selma.
In the meantime, Minamara, Morris Accola dropped out, Minamara dropped out and I
was left with some long time employees and I gave these employees a share in the
business so that they would stay with me and keep the business going.
IT:
Now I understand you got into JACL in 1929.
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
And then you are gone from Fresno in the thirties for a while and you came back out.
Who were some of the people that were active in JACL in the thirties?
FH:
In the thirties? Oh, let’s see, Dr. Yatabe of course, Fred Yoshikawa, Bobby Tanaga, who
are some of the others?
SH:
Hiro Yamamisa very early.
IT:
That would be in the thirties?
FH:
The thirties.
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HIRASUNA
SH:
Well the very first President was a woman, Lillian Tomida, wasn’t she?
FH:
She was the President even before twenty-nine.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
The Fresno JACL was founded in twenty-three and I didn’t get in until twenty-nine so
between twenty-three and twenty-nine, the chapter had a regular President and officers
and everything and that’s why we always claimed we were the oldest because the other
chapters around San Jose they all died so they quit and—yeah so there is a period—in
one sense, there is a period they can’t account for because they weren’t there.
IT:
And then after coming back from camp and so on when was the JACL again reactivated?
FH:
Oh it was reactivated I think in forty-seven and the person most responsible for that was
Johnson Kebo, yeah. He was very active and that is when we had that big gathering of
veterans. It was a big deal but Johnson Kebo, I think, should be given the greatest credit
for restarting JACL.
IT:
Now who else was active in the forties, late forties and early fifties?
SH:
Tom Nakamura?
FH:
Oh yeah. Tom Nakamura.
IT:
What about George Abe?
SH:
George Abe.
IT:
When did Ben Nakamura come in?
SH:
A little bit later.
FH:
A little bit later yeah.
IT:
There is a list somewhere, a list of the Presidents. (inaudible) Among those would you
say Johnson Kebo and Nakamura?
15
FH:
HIRASUNA
Yeah. The greatest credit should be given to Johnson Kebo, of course his weakness was
that he was an alcoholic.
IT:
Oh, is that true?
FH:
But, nevertheless, he was a great deal. I remember one time we went to Los Angeles for
some kind of conference of something and I got a ride from him coming back and he had
a pint bottle of whiskey and it took it just like you or I would drink soda water. It didn’t
seem to affect his driving though. I got home safely.
IT:
Now on Sunnyside Packing I’ve come across a lot of people who you employed, I mean
kids.
SH:
Yeah it seems that way, like Ken Yokota.
IT:
Ken Yokota, Bob Ishikawa.
SH:
Oh yeah?
FH:
They were looking for summer work and we had the work so they came to work for us.
IT:
Did you have a particular plan or program to give them jobs or anything like that?
FH:
No, they just came and applied for work and I gave them work.
IT:
Oh. But they all didn’t you feel that it was a good job for them since they couldn’t get
anything else?
FH:
Yeah. Those were very hectic times sometimes because our business was up and down.
One year we would do all right and the next year it would be really rough, breaking and
now after we moved to Selma, my son Stewart took over, and you ought to see that place
now. It’s huge. Yeah it’s huge.
IT:
Now back when in the fifties for example how many growers were, did you do supply
for?
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HIRASUNA
SH:
I thought we had some older books there is the history here.
IT:
Is there any estimate about how many acres of farming was involved from the growers?
FH:
It might be in the office some place. I can’t recall. Just the strawberry growers alone I
think one time we had, must be over I don’t know—anyway this is a bad time to
interview because my memory is not that good.
IT:
If we waited longer—
FH:
Sometimes I wonder, of course, in this business a lot of it is business sense but a lot of it
is luck, too.
IT:
Okay, so besides JACL you had affiliations with the business, was any other kind of
organizations that you belonged to, Chamber of Commerce?
FH:
No, I guess we were members of Chambers of Commerce but never did much.
IT:
Were there any other organizations?
FH:
Oh yeah.
IT:
Farm Bureau, Grange, or—
FH:
Yeah, there is Western Grower’s Association and also the industry connected
associations. We all belonged to them.
IT:
Were you active at all in those organizations?
FH:
I was active in strawberries. They have what they called a Strawberry Advisory Board.
IT:
Uh-huh.
FH:
And I was in it for a long, long time. And there was some very prominent people in that.
There was a Tad Tomita, there was a (inaudible)
IT:
I knew Tad.
17
FH:
HIRASUNA
Yeah, he was the chairman of the Strawberry Advisory Board for a year or two. You
know with—
IT:
Tad was the Business Manager for my father’s association before the war.
FH:
And he was connected with the Japanese strawberry growers.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
Now they call it Nature Ripe, (clock ringing in the background) yes, strawberries became
a very important part of our business because we had a fellow by the name of Buzz Noda
who worked for us in Fresno. We sent him into Watsonville and we were able to
organize a co-op over there. And then we had a group of growers around Oxnard that we
shipped strawberries for and we even shipped strawberries out of Mexico.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
Yeah. A couple of season and at one time I think we were about our group was about the
third largest shippers of strawberries in California. And now today I think there is only
one strawberry, Japanese strawberry grower, Bob Okamura. In my day Hmongs have
taken over strawberries.
IT:
Yeah, I guess so.
FH:
Our largest acreage in the past was about less than three hundred acres and now there is
over six hundred acres.
IT:
Did you have any ties with Nisei Farmers League when they organized?
FH:
Oh yeah. Yeah, I was in there, I think I can claim that I was just as active as Harry Kubo,
the organizer.
IT:
Was there any movement to organize before Chavez or was it after Chavez started
organizing the unions?
18
HIRASUNA
FH:
Chavez?
IT:
After Chavez, did you have any problems in organizing the league?
SH:
Do you (inaudible)
FH:
A big fight with Chavez?
IT:
No among the farmers? Did they all come together pretty fast?
FH:
I think you know it’s like a lot of things. When you have a common enemy you find a lot
of people—just like evacuation time before evacuation nobody wanted to join JACL. But
when evacuation started, they started to come in because they figured JACL could do
something and the same way with the Cesar Chavez union situation. Japanese farmers
thought they were being picked on because I guess Chavez figured we were the easiest
targets and so the Nisei got together and formed this organization.
IT:
Do you have any thoughts on what impact the organization of farm workers had on
agriculture here in central valley? Did it—
FH:
I think there is good and bad about it. It was good in that the farm workers got
recognition, but you know during that time, all farm workers didn’t want to join Chavez
because those close ties with the growers they worked for and the growers treated them
well. And Chavez at one time why he had to threaten. You need to have a farm or a field
non-union and you had workers in the field and Chavez men would come in and try to
persuade those workers to strike and they’d even go to their homes at night and threaten
them if they didn’t strike. And so I don’t know. I don’t think the Mexican growers were
as in bad condition that Chavez would like to say that they were. I walked picket lines
and I talked to Mexican picketers and I said what do you do? Oh I have some kids they
are going to college and he was very satisfied there but they were on the picket line. You
19
HIRASUNA
know one time it was called White River Farms and it was down south towards Visalia
and Chavez struck that farm and the workers were not to leave the farm and Nisei
growers and I went, too, and went to that farm and picked grapes and the opposition was
the union.
IT:
Now on the—before the union came in, there were more probably illegals working on the
farms right?
FH:
I wonder.
IT:
Did the unionization change the supply of labor like this past year, they are talking about
they didn’t have enough pickers for grapes. Is the labor supply more stable or more
variable?
FH:
I can’t recall.
IT:
Because before you had the Bracero program.
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
And different things but then when the unions came in, they eliminated most of those
kinds of programs and kind of jobs for the locals.
FH:
I think it’s true too that at the peak of the harvest, there weren’t enough local workers to
take care of the harvest and you offered jobs to people and they don’t want them. They
don’t want to work on the farms. They would rather draw welfare. Like today, why most
of the farm workers are doing pretty well. A combination of piece work and everything?
They make so much more money than people think.
IT:
Over time I’ve been in the packing shed business and on the farm and there is much more
automation.
20
FH:
HIRASUNA
Oh, yes. Like cotton for instance you don’t find any hand picking of cotton, they use all
farm machines. And even wine grapes why they pick them more and more by machine
rather than by hand.
IT:
Now do you think the machines came in because of the labor shortage? Or did they—
FH:
I think they were just trying to reduce the cost of picking.
IT:
Or is it because of the rising wages that bring about?
FH:
I think the machines would have come in anyway.
IT:
Would come in anyway?
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
The curiosity of the scientists.
FH:
They are always looking for means to do the work cheaper and if it’s by machine, they
will do it by machine.
IT:
Now in your time here, there used to be a lot of—well there were Japanese laborers right?
FH:
Uh-huh.
IT:
Talking about (inaudible) and all that. And then you had Filipino laborers?
FH:
Uh-huh.
IT:
The Mexicans were always here. How do you interpret, you know, the change in
conditions by different groups coming in?
FH:
Well—
IT:
Were there a lot of Filipino’s here at one time?
SH:
When we were—let’s see. When we were going to like high school that age, there were a
lot of young Filipinos that used to come into town. We were afraid of them. Well, I
21
HIRASUNA
mean I shouldn’t say that. But there were a lot of young Filipinos in town and you don’t
see that anymore.
IT:
Especially after the Philippines got their independence. I mean now, they can’t come
here as freely.
FH:
When we were in produce and like the lettuce, dry-pack lettuce, our crews were all
Filipino. Yeah. And we got along very well with them and they made good money.
IT:
But was there competition between the Mexicans and the Filipinos or—
FH:
Not in that particular branch of the business. See we all—around here oh, I don’t think
we ever had Filipino grape pickers.
IT:
Then, what did the Depression year when the Texans and Oklahomas, the Okie’s and so
on came in? What affect did that have? Did Japanese growers hire them or—?
FH:
Well I don’t think so around here. I don’t remember. I think they were stronger in areas
like Bakersfield.
IT:
I remember—
FH:
How about you in your area?
IT:
We had a lot of them come to pick fruit, but then I used to hear about the pea pickers, pea
pickers and in the Earlimart and Delano area.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
And winter peas.
IT:
And so they apparently quite a few of them were into pea picking during the season
already.
FH:
When we were in Delano we shipped winter peas but I didn’t have much to do with peas.
SH:
Well I just wonder now who picked them? I remember peas.
22
HIRASUNA
FH:
Yeah winter peas used to be a big business around here.
IT:
There isn’t anymore now?
FH:
Things have changed so much. I don’t think I’m a very good person for you to interview
because my memory is not good anymore.
IT:
I try to piece things together and thoughts in my head.
SH:
That was a long time ago.
IT:
When—when did the switch over from the Issei working as farm labor, the worker, and
they diminished. Did that come out before WWII or a result of evacuation? Let me say
that they saved their money and became farmers and so on. But in the early thirties there
were quite a few that were migrating.
FH:
So called blanket boys?
IT:
Yeah, and you know they used to be a hotel that accommodated them.
SH:
There used to be camps.
IT:
Labor camps, I remember Paul Kawasaki?
SH:
Yeah.
IT:
His father was a contract—labor contractor in Delano.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
Most of the young Nisei used to go into those camps.
IT:
I think I need to interview Eddie Nagatani, he probably has some thoughts of the labor
contractors.
FH:
Which one is Eddie?
IT:
He’s the older one.
SH:
Uh, the oldest was—
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HIRASUNA
FH:
Jim.
SH:
No, George.
FH:
Oh George.
SH:
But somebody died?
IT:
Must have been George.
FH:
George died, I think.
IT:
Jim, Eddie and Ben is who I had.
FH:
And the Nagatanis used to be big farmers. Around Terra Bella, successful farmers. See
in Delano there were farmer’s associations in Delano and the Delano Grower’s Exchange
was composed of Japanese farmers from labor camps. That’s a good camera.
SH:
I’m sure it must be.
IT:
Well it’s amazing how they are so compact now and all kinds of (inaudible).
FH:
You can go direct from that into a larger tape.
IT:
Yeah I can put this tape into the adapter and play it in the VCR.
FH:
Yeah. That’s better than mine.
IT:
I can bring—I have a VCR in the car and I have a 9-inch one and I can plug it into this
and play it directly off of this. But I bought this so I can copy this tape onto the VCR
tape.
SH:
Amazing.
FH:
And then I can store the VCR tape and use these little tapes over. Yeah, I can go from
the camera to the TV and from the TV into the VCR. That is a little more complicated.
IT:
When were you on the grand jury?
SH:
That was quite a few years back.
24
FH:
HIRASUNA
I can’t remember that. That is quite a few years back. The year I was on there why
(Inaudible) was on there and one other guy.
SH:
Three of you?
FH:
And Cuomo was he?
SH:
(inaudible)
IT:
Okay, I’ll turn this off now.
FRED AND SETSU HIRASUNA
INTERVIEWER:
IZUMI TANIGUICHI
DATE:
January 19, 1999
IT:
Okay it’s recording now. We can play it back and see if it works.
FH:
My dad went to Hawaii in the 1890’s and served out his labor contract there and then he
went back to Japan and got married to my mother and had their first child there. He came
to the mainland in 1900 and my mother came to the mainland in 1903. They left my
oldest brother whose name is Kaname in Japan. And their history is I think he worked on
the railroad and worked in San Francisco and finally he came to Fowler and that’s near
Fresno and he started a restaurant. From Fowler he went to Lodi and in Lodi he had a
bicycle job and he would farm on the side. That’s my latest recollection. I was born in
Lodi.
IT:
Give me—let me play that back. Okay—
FH:
Now where was I?
IT:
You were in Lodi. You arrived in Lodi.
FH:
Oh yeah.
IT:
At the bicycle shop.
FH:
My dad had a bicycle shop in Lodi but he would farm on the side. No matter what the
business, he had a bicycle shop the whole time I was there. And I was born in 1908 and
we moved to Fowler, to Fowler in 1922 so that was fourteen years in Lodi and all that
time he had a bicycle shop and he would farm on the side. My dad was never too
successful but I mean he was not an outstanding success at making money. And he
moved to—he moved the family to Fowler and he started a garage and in Fowler there
2
HIRASUNA
were already two other Japanese garages in a small town. And he sent my two oldest
brothers, Kaname was born in Japan and came to this country and Takume was born in
this country but he was sent back to Japan for part of his education so he was a Kibei.
And he sent those two to mechanics school and they were supposed to run the garage.
And I guess we stumbled along in that garage and then my oldest brother got into some
kind of a hassle with my father and he left and my second oldest brother Takume also got
into some kind of a hassle with my father and he left and that left the family with a
garage and no mechanics.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
And during that time in the garage I picked up a little mechanical knowledge but I was
never a real mechanic and for a year or so I stumbled around along running the garage.
Finally, we closed the garage and in the meantime I graduated high school in 1926,
Fowler High School and then I went to Fresno State for a year or a year and a half or so.
And then I stopped going because in spite of the low tuitions and all that, our family
didn’t have any money. I went to Los Angeles to work and in Los Angeles, I drove a
truck, I hand-nailed boxes, and loaded cars and all the things all connected with produce.
I finally came back and went back to school and finally graduated in 1932, I was
supposed to graduate in 1930. But in 1932 I had a degree in social sciences and a
Japanese-American with a degree in social sciences, there was no job for him. The
President of the college, his name was Frank Thomas told me one time “You have no
chance of getting a teacher’s job because you are Japanese.” And there I was with a
degree in Social Sciences and no job so I floated around for about a year and finally got
into produce. Setsu, in fact, told me about a man that was looking for a person to work
3
HIRASUNA
with him and his name was George Matsuoka and he needed a bookkeeper and I didn’t
know beans about bookkeeping and I hadn’t taken bookkeeping or anything at the time or
a course like that but never the less, I went to Imperial Valley and worked as a
bookkeeper. And the way I picked up bookkeeping, I made some friends with other
people who kept books for other sheds and they told me what to do. So I learned enough
to keep a set of books. But after and this George Matsuoka, he was a crudest man from
way back. One time he had a union fruit company but he went broke.
SH:
You mean Union Brokerage or something?
IT:
Later it became the Union Brokerage.
FH:
Anyway he would in Imperial Valley he would go out and buy a field of lettuce that
wasn’t ready to be harvested again but he would buy it and then he would, the lettuce got
ready he’d send his crew in there to cut it, and pack the lettuce and send it to market. In
those days they used to ice pack lettuce in the sheds, but Matsuoka and a man by the
name of Osuda and some others, they dry-packed it. They would cut the lettuce and pack
it in the field and send it into Los Angeles, Oakland as dry-packed lettuce and when that
season in Imperial Valley was finished, we would go to Delano. And in Delano he
handled the vegetable crop there so we’d go back and forth Delano and Imperial Valley.
And I wasn’t making too much money. In fact when I started, I was making I think a
hundred dollars.
SH:
A hundred dollars a month.
FH:
Yeah. And when I ended up with everything, I wasn’t making much more than that, a
hundred and a quarter and in the meantime Setsu and I got married and we had a baby
and—
4
HIRASUNA
IT:
What year was it that you got married?
FH:
Nineteen thirty-six, no, nineteen-thirty five.
SH:
We got married in thirty-five.
FH:
In thirty-five.
SH:
August.
FH:
And well it was just we were getting by—I remember at the last rent we were paying I
think thirty dollars a month for house rent and twenty-five.
SH:
Twenty-five dollars on a car.
FH:
My payment on the car and we had the baby-baby girl so we were eating a lot of soup.
But a, in 1939 Setsu’s brother, Ty, bought a chick-sexing business, International ChickSexing Association from a man by the name of Hatoru, who owned the hatchery and
chicken ranch in Fresno and I think he was pioneer in chick-sexing in this country.
IT:
Was he an Issei?
FH:
Issei and he did that for a couple of years and then he decided he was going to sell the
business and her brother Ty bought the business from him. Then he asked me to come
back and run the business for him. I knew nothing about hatcheries, nothing about
raising chickens, nothing about chick-sexing. But I came back and my first problem was
how to run a chicken ranch and I was going around with a University of California book
in my hand (laughing) trying to figure out how to raise these darn chickens. The Chick
Association we had sexers oh about thirty or forty of them, out in the field we’d find
hatcheries that would hire them at a certain price and we would contract the work and
we’d send the chick-sexers there to do the work and we were taking a percentage of the
chick-sexers earnings that was our income. So we did that—
5
HIRASUNA
SH:
Different parts of the country.
FH:
Oh yeah. Like Ty would be running around Minnesota and we had chick-sexers all over.
New York State, Ohio, Iowa, the Dakota’s, Missouri.
IT:
Was that transportation by train then to go to all these places?
FH:
Car.
IT:
Car.
FH:
Yeah, because in chick-sexing you may go to the hatchery at six o’clock in the morning
and be there until midnight sexing the chicks. At first, in the business we were getting
one cent a chick and the chick-sexers were making good money. The competition came
in—remember John Nitta? He was a chick-sexer that started his own school in
Pennsylvania, John Nitta and he called it The American Chick-Sexing Association. Later
he claimed he pioneered chick-sexing but that’s not true. Hatoru pioneered it…
IT:
And that was right here in Fresno.
FH:
Hatoru was in Fresno. But Ty was in Mankato, Minnesota learning that end of the
business. So we were doing that until evacuation time came.
When evacuation came I was in kind of a spot because I had my father, my
mother, my sister to look after you know for evacuation and we had her younger sister so
that year, at first, we decided we’d go to camp. We got our duffle bags and everything
and got all ready to go to camp. But our third child Stewart was born in February of
forty-two. And he was not—he was a little bit sickly I think and there were all these
rumors about these camps no hospitals, no doctors, and no medicines and I got real
worried and I decided I was going to try to go out, not go to camp. For a time there, there
was a volunteering period where you could go without but I think about the end of March
6
HIRASUNA
they stopped that voluntary evacuation. So here it was June or so and in order to
evacuate now, I had to get permission from the Western Defense Command. So I got in
touch with the Western Defense Command and I told them that I had a job in Mankato,
Minnesota running chick-sexing out of there and I had these dependents and I wanted a
permit to go back there, voluntary. This is in July now. In July this area was going to go
to camp. Area Two, Area One had already gone to Arkansas.
SH:
Yeah, we were supposed to leave in just a few days.
FH:
Yeah Area Two I think it was headed for Arizona in about ten days I guess before our
deadline came for us to go to camp, I got this permit from the Western Defense
Command to take our family with three little kids, her sister, my sister and my father and
mother, I got a permit for them to go with me to Minnesota. So we went there in two
cars. In the meantime the office stuff—we put into a trailer and pick up and we couldn’t
go up ninety-nine.
IT:
Not with a heavy car.
FH:
Yeah and so they made us—
SH:
Through Yosemite, Tioga Pass.
FH:
That was pretty rough.
SH:
Oh it was awful, I mean just –
FH:
And friends of our Russian-German friends, Mike Boog and his brother, they took the
trailer and the pick up and they went up ninety-nine to Reno. We went over the Tioga to
Carson City and we tried to get a place to stay and the first motel refused us, you know,
Japs from California. So then I decided I went to the best motel in Carson City and they
took us and so we got rooms there and the next day we went to Reno and we met the
7
HIRASUNA
Boog two who brought our trailer and pick-up to Reno and we had a couple of guys come
from Minnesota to Reno to take over the pick up. So, and from then on, why we were
stopped by the Nevada Highway Patrol and asked all kinds of questions and wanted to
see our papers and we showed them our papers and so they let us go on. And the first
night we stopped at a place called Winnemucca in Nevada and we knew that there was a
Japanese in Winnemucca with the hotel rooming house because (inaudible) so we went
there and he gave us a room and this is—this is where we are driving into Winnemucca
and a truck load of white guys passed by “Go back to California, you damn Japs.” And I
didn’t know what to expect but his rooms were above a, some kind of saloon or
something.
SH:
And lots of noise.
FH:
Noise
IT:
Must have been a casino down there.
FH:
I don’t know.
SH:
But anyway.
FH:
They were making a lot of noise and I didn’t know what to expect. There I am with
these woman and kids and oh, I expected trouble but fortunately we didn’t have any.
And from there went to Salt Lake City, Des Moines and finally Minnesota. And that’s
how we got to Minnesota so what an experience that was.
IT:
Now in Minnesota did you get involved in any, JACL was in Salt Lake. Did you have
any contact with JACL?
FH:
Yeah, I was an associate member all through the war and in Mankato itself. The women,
they went to church. She was Christian. So they went to Presbyterian Churches I think
8
HIRASUNA
but I wouldn’t go because I’m not Christian, I’m not Buddhist, I’m not anything. But I
was asked to go before different groups to explain about evacuation so I was making the
rounds doing that and trying to fill up a favorable atmosphere for our group. Fortunately
or unfortunately, I think we were about the only Japanese family in Mankato. There were
some chick-sexers there. It was the first time a lot of these Mankato people saw Japanese
and they didn’t know what to make of us.
SH:
And one of our neighbor girls later on when we got acquainted with them, she says “We
thought you were real Japs.” So I didn’t know what—
IT:
So you didn’t insist on being American then?
FH:
A couple of the neighbor girls, one of them especially used to be at our house all the time.
She was—
SH:
Twins, twelve.
FH:
Twelve years old.
SH:
All those years.
FH:
She ate Japanese food and took care of our kids. As a matter of fact, we still talk to her.
She is still in Mankato and we talk to her on the phone once or twice or three times a
year.
IT:
You say Japanese food, were you able to get Japanese food?
SH:
Well, you know Japanese food, why usually it’s the “okazu” kind of thing, meat and
vegetables usually.
IT:
But did you ever get “shiyoyu” (soy sauce)?
FH:
Oh yeah.
SH:
We got shiyoyu.
9
HIRASUNA
FH:
There was a place in Ohio where Japanese made shiyoyu.
SH:
Yeah we got shiyoyu so.
IT:
And then you mentioned something about taking your parents to Jerome—
FH:
Yeah I took, we took my parents to Mankato, the first morning it was minus twenty-six,
twenty-eight. Storm windows, snow and my dad and my mother, they had no peers to
talk to, you know. The family there but nobody their own age and my father especially
just begged me to get him to camp. And so I said all right I’ll try. There is a Thomas
Howland who belonged to the WRA I guess. War Relocation Authority and I read or
heard that he was going to be in Chicago so I took the train from Mankato to Chicago and
I got an appointment with him and explained what the situation was and I want
permission to take my parents to a camp. And after he heard my story, he was very
sympathetic and said he’d see what he could do. And I think about ten days later he sent
me a permit to take my folks to camp and my sister, I don’t know whether she wanted to
or not, but she consented to go with them, to camp with them. So I took my father and
mother and sister this is in the winter time from Minnesota to Arkansas and put them I
think it was Rohwer camp but I had a brother who was in Rohwer.
IT:
The other Fresno people were in Jerome.
FH:
Yeah, I think so. They were in Jerome. But very truthfully I think my parents had a good
time in camp. My father liked to fish. He could fish all he wanted and he didn’t have to
worry about making money for the next meal. And I think when camp closed, they were
really kind of sorry that it closed.
IT:
When did they leave camp?
FH:
Oh, that was in 1945.
10
HIRASUNA
IT:
Where did they go from camp?
FH:
Well, that was after the West Coast was open?
IT:
Uh-huh.
FH:
In 1946, a group of us including Dr. Yatabe, Kikuo Taira, anyway, we got a group and
came to California, so scouting party to see how it was. Well we were on Eleventh Street
her brother owned an acre lot there and during the war he wanted to sell it and I told him
I’ll buy it and I bought that lot for (inaudible) so when I came back in forty-six and saw
the situation, I decided I would build a house for my folks and send them back to
California even though we weren’t there. I had a brother, two brothers here already and
they would kind of look after them. So we built that little house and they lived in that.
IT:
Now did they come directly here from camp?
FH:
No, they came to Chicago first where I had a brother, then from Chicago they came to
Fresno.
SH:
They didn’t stay very long in Chicago.
FH:
No they didn’t.
SH:
It was just a stop.
FH:
Enough for my dad to get his wallet stolen.
IT:
Then shortly after that did you move back?
FH:
We moved back in the winter of forty-seven. By that time they had that little house built
and they were living in it. We lived—when we came back we lived in her folks’ old
home which is still there. And—
IT:
Now did you continue with the chick-sexing business here?
11
FH:
HIRASUNA
No, when I left in forty-seven I told my brother-in-law that I’ve got three little kids and I
can’t do it on the kind of wages I’m getting, I think it was a hundred and fifty a month or
something so I told him I was going to quit and go back to California and see if I can start
something. So that’s why I came back to California and fooled around a while trying to
find something to do. And I landed back in produce so that’s how we started 1948—Min
Nomada and a fellow by the name of Morris Accola who died recently.
IT:
Just this weekend.
FH:
Yeah. We founded a partnership and started Sunnyside Packing.
IT:
And where were you located, your first packing house?
FH:
In Fresno.
IT:
Where in Fresno?
FH:
Oh Ventura and the railroad tracks there. There was a sort of a big warehouse there and
we started there and after that we moved to—
SH:
To G Street?
FH:
No, we moved to, I guess so, and on G Street we built—see we really didn’t pack—well
we packed tomatoes. But other things, the growers packed and brought it into us and we
sold it for them.
IT:
What kinds of produce did you start out in?
FH:
I guess it was tomatoes and all the spring vegetables and finally we got into fruits.
IT:
Where was the market?
FH:
Markets were in Oakland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
SH:
And we were the strawberry exchange for a while we were—
12
FH:
HIRASUNA
(inaudible) yeah the Strawberry exchange started in 1948 or forty-nine. After we came
back, we were looking for people to come to us to sell for them and at that time there was
a group of strawberry growers. Strawberry growing was very prominent before the war.
It was a big association, and then after the war, why they started with strawberries again
and there was a fellow by the name of Eddie. Well, anyway, he had a group of
strawberry growers that he sold for but then we got them all together and they gave us the
whole deal to sell for them, the strawberry exchange. Strawberries was one of our big
commodities by that time. It really—we sold the strawberry exchange until they closed
their doors. The reason they closed their doors was because strawberry growers became
fewer and fewer and volume became less and less and there was no longer enough
volume to keep a separate strawberry exchange so we more or less took that over.
IT:
Now when you—the market was San Francisco, Los Angeles and so on, did you sell to
stores or did you go through another—
FH:
Through distributors.
IT:
Through distributors?
FH:
(inaudible) oh we sold to Safeway to Safeway, Lucky Stores so it was a combination.
IT:
Back then Safeway and A &P?
FH:
A & P was in the Midwest and Safeway was in—
IT:
There was an A & P in Los Angeles so—
FH:
Yeah we might of, but I can’t remember. We sold to people in Canada and for a period,
we shipped strawberries to Europe. So—
IT:
To Europe—how did it go by?
FH:
It couldn’t have been by plane. It must have been by ship.
13
HIRASUNA
SH:
It couldn’t last that long.
IT:
In the forties and fifties?
FH:
I can’t remember. I remember we shipped strawberries to Hawaii and they went in boats.
There would be a van or trailer we’d load and pre-cool in the van and then transfer the
van to the ship.
IT:
When did you start pre-cooling?
FH:
It must have been in the forties or early fifties because you had to have the facility to—
well when we built our packing house on G Street, we had a small pre-cooling plant there
but the volume was so large that we went to Midland, called Midland Cold Storage which
was on Ventura near the Santa Fe track, the Santa Fe track and they had a pretty big deal
and we’d pre-cool there, we’d rent there. We did that until we built our place in Selma.
In the meantime, Minamara, Morris Accola dropped out, Minamara dropped out and I
was left with some long time employees and I gave these employees a share in the
business so that they would stay with me and keep the business going.
IT:
Now I understand you got into JACL in 1929.
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
And then you are gone from Fresno in the thirties for a while and you came back out.
Who were some of the people that were active in JACL in the thirties?
FH:
In the thirties? Oh, let’s see, Dr. Yatabe of course, Fred Yoshikawa, Bobby Tanaga, who
are some of the others?
SH:
Hiro Yamamisa very early.
IT:
That would be in the thirties?
FH:
The thirties.
14
HIRASUNA
SH:
Well the very first President was a woman, Lillian Tomida, wasn’t she?
FH:
She was the President even before twenty-nine.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
The Fresno JACL was founded in twenty-three and I didn’t get in until twenty-nine so
between twenty-three and twenty-nine, the chapter had a regular President and officers
and everything and that’s why we always claimed we were the oldest because the other
chapters around San Jose they all died so they quit and—yeah so there is a period—in
one sense, there is a period they can’t account for because they weren’t there.
IT:
And then after coming back from camp and so on when was the JACL again reactivated?
FH:
Oh it was reactivated I think in forty-seven and the person most responsible for that was
Johnson Kebo, yeah. He was very active and that is when we had that big gathering of
veterans. It was a big deal but Johnson Kebo, I think, should be given the greatest credit
for restarting JACL.
IT:
Now who else was active in the forties, late forties and early fifties?
SH:
Tom Nakamura?
FH:
Oh yeah. Tom Nakamura.
IT:
What about George Abe?
SH:
George Abe.
IT:
When did Ben Nakamura come in?
SH:
A little bit later.
FH:
A little bit later yeah.
IT:
There is a list somewhere, a list of the Presidents. (inaudible) Among those would you
say Johnson Kebo and Nakamura?
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FH:
HIRASUNA
Yeah. The greatest credit should be given to Johnson Kebo, of course his weakness was
that he was an alcoholic.
IT:
Oh, is that true?
FH:
But, nevertheless, he was a great deal. I remember one time we went to Los Angeles for
some kind of conference of something and I got a ride from him coming back and he had
a pint bottle of whiskey and it took it just like you or I would drink soda water. It didn’t
seem to affect his driving though. I got home safely.
IT:
Now on Sunnyside Packing I’ve come across a lot of people who you employed, I mean
kids.
SH:
Yeah it seems that way, like Ken Yokota.
IT:
Ken Yokota, Bob Ishikawa.
SH:
Oh yeah?
FH:
They were looking for summer work and we had the work so they came to work for us.
IT:
Did you have a particular plan or program to give them jobs or anything like that?
FH:
No, they just came and applied for work and I gave them work.
IT:
Oh. But they all didn’t you feel that it was a good job for them since they couldn’t get
anything else?
FH:
Yeah. Those were very hectic times sometimes because our business was up and down.
One year we would do all right and the next year it would be really rough, breaking and
now after we moved to Selma, my son Stewart took over, and you ought to see that place
now. It’s huge. Yeah it’s huge.
IT:
Now back when in the fifties for example how many growers were, did you do supply
for?
16
HIRASUNA
SH:
I thought we had some older books there is the history here.
IT:
Is there any estimate about how many acres of farming was involved from the growers?
FH:
It might be in the office some place. I can’t recall. Just the strawberry growers alone I
think one time we had, must be over I don’t know—anyway this is a bad time to
interview because my memory is not that good.
IT:
If we waited longer—
FH:
Sometimes I wonder, of course, in this business a lot of it is business sense but a lot of it
is luck, too.
IT:
Okay, so besides JACL you had affiliations with the business, was any other kind of
organizations that you belonged to, Chamber of Commerce?
FH:
No, I guess we were members of Chambers of Commerce but never did much.
IT:
Were there any other organizations?
FH:
Oh yeah.
IT:
Farm Bureau, Grange, or—
FH:
Yeah, there is Western Grower’s Association and also the industry connected
associations. We all belonged to them.
IT:
Were you active at all in those organizations?
FH:
I was active in strawberries. They have what they called a Strawberry Advisory Board.
IT:
Uh-huh.
FH:
And I was in it for a long, long time. And there was some very prominent people in that.
There was a Tad Tomita, there was a (inaudible)
IT:
I knew Tad.
17
FH:
HIRASUNA
Yeah, he was the chairman of the Strawberry Advisory Board for a year or two. You
know with—
IT:
Tad was the Business Manager for my father’s association before the war.
FH:
And he was connected with the Japanese strawberry growers.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
Now they call it Nature Ripe, (clock ringing in the background) yes, strawberries became
a very important part of our business because we had a fellow by the name of Buzz Noda
who worked for us in Fresno. We sent him into Watsonville and we were able to
organize a co-op over there. And then we had a group of growers around Oxnard that we
shipped strawberries for and we even shipped strawberries out of Mexico.
IT:
Oh.
FH:
Yeah. A couple of season and at one time I think we were about our group was about the
third largest shippers of strawberries in California. And now today I think there is only
one strawberry, Japanese strawberry grower, Bob Okamura. In my day Hmongs have
taken over strawberries.
IT:
Yeah, I guess so.
FH:
Our largest acreage in the past was about less than three hundred acres and now there is
over six hundred acres.
IT:
Did you have any ties with Nisei Farmers League when they organized?
FH:
Oh yeah. Yeah, I was in there, I think I can claim that I was just as active as Harry Kubo,
the organizer.
IT:
Was there any movement to organize before Chavez or was it after Chavez started
organizing the unions?
18
HIRASUNA
FH:
Chavez?
IT:
After Chavez, did you have any problems in organizing the league?
SH:
Do you (inaudible)
FH:
A big fight with Chavez?
IT:
No among the farmers? Did they all come together pretty fast?
FH:
I think you know it’s like a lot of things. When you have a common enemy you find a lot
of people—just like evacuation time before evacuation nobody wanted to join JACL. But
when evacuation started, they started to come in because they figured JACL could do
something and the same way with the Cesar Chavez union situation. Japanese farmers
thought they were being picked on because I guess Chavez figured we were the easiest
targets and so the Nisei got together and formed this organization.
IT:
Do you have any thoughts on what impact the organization of farm workers had on
agriculture here in central valley? Did it—
FH:
I think there is good and bad about it. It was good in that the farm workers got
recognition, but you know during that time, all farm workers didn’t want to join Chavez
because those close ties with the growers they worked for and the growers treated them
well. And Chavez at one time why he had to threaten. You need to have a farm or a field
non-union and you had workers in the field and Chavez men would come in and try to
persuade those workers to strike and they’d even go to their homes at night and threaten
them if they didn’t strike. And so I don’t know. I don’t think the Mexican growers were
as in bad condition that Chavez would like to say that they were. I walked picket lines
and I talked to Mexican picketers and I said what do you do? Oh I have some kids they
are going to college and he was very satisfied there but they were on the picket line. You
19
HIRASUNA
know one time it was called White River Farms and it was down south towards Visalia
and Chavez struck that farm and the workers were not to leave the farm and Nisei
growers and I went, too, and went to that farm and picked grapes and the opposition was
the union.
IT:
Now on the—before the union came in, there were more probably illegals working on the
farms right?
FH:
I wonder.
IT:
Did the unionization change the supply of labor like this past year, they are talking about
they didn’t have enough pickers for grapes. Is the labor supply more stable or more
variable?
FH:
I can’t recall.
IT:
Because before you had the Bracero program.
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
And different things but then when the unions came in, they eliminated most of those
kinds of programs and kind of jobs for the locals.
FH:
I think it’s true too that at the peak of the harvest, there weren’t enough local workers to
take care of the harvest and you offered jobs to people and they don’t want them. They
don’t want to work on the farms. They would rather draw welfare. Like today, why most
of the farm workers are doing pretty well. A combination of piece work and everything?
They make so much more money than people think.
IT:
Over time I’ve been in the packing shed business and on the farm and there is much more
automation.
20
FH:
HIRASUNA
Oh, yes. Like cotton for instance you don’t find any hand picking of cotton, they use all
farm machines. And even wine grapes why they pick them more and more by machine
rather than by hand.
IT:
Now do you think the machines came in because of the labor shortage? Or did they—
FH:
I think they were just trying to reduce the cost of picking.
IT:
Or is it because of the rising wages that bring about?
FH:
I think the machines would have come in anyway.
IT:
Would come in anyway?
FH:
Yeah.
IT:
The curiosity of the scientists.
FH:
They are always looking for means to do the work cheaper and if it’s by machine, they
will do it by machine.
IT:
Now in your time here, there used to be a lot of—well there were Japanese laborers right?
FH:
Uh-huh.
IT:
Talking about (inaudible) and all that. And then you had Filipino laborers?
FH:
Uh-huh.
IT:
The Mexicans were always here. How do you interpret, you know, the change in
conditions by different groups coming in?
FH:
Well—
IT:
Were there a lot of Filipino’s here at one time?
SH:
When we were—let’s see. When we were going to like high school that age, there were a
lot of young Filipinos that used to come into town. We were afraid of them. Well, I
21
HIRASUNA
mean I shouldn’t say that. But there were a lot of young Filipinos in town and you don’t
see that anymore.
IT:
Especially after the Philippines got their independence. I mean now, they can’t come
here as freely.
FH:
When we were in produce and like the lettuce, dry-pack lettuce, our crews were all
Filipino. Yeah. And we got along very well with them and they made good money.
IT:
But was there competition between the Mexicans and the Filipinos or—
FH:
Not in that particular branch of the business. See we all—around here oh, I don’t think
we ever had Filipino grape pickers.
IT:
Then, what did the Depression year when the Texans and Oklahomas, the Okie’s and so
on came in? What affect did that have? Did Japanese growers hire them or—?
FH:
Well I don’t think so around here. I don’t remember. I think they were stronger in areas
like Bakersfield.
IT:
I remember—
FH:
How about you in your area?
IT:
We had a lot of them come to pick fruit, but then I used to hear about the pea pickers, pea
pickers and in the Earlimart and Delano area.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
And winter peas.
IT:
And so they apparently quite a few of them were into pea picking during the season
already.
FH:
When we were in Delano we shipped winter peas but I didn’t have much to do with peas.
SH:
Well I just wonder now who picked them? I remember peas.
22
HIRASUNA
FH:
Yeah winter peas used to be a big business around here.
IT:
There isn’t anymore now?
FH:
Things have changed so much. I don’t think I’m a very good person for you to interview
because my memory is not good anymore.
IT:
I try to piece things together and thoughts in my head.
SH:
That was a long time ago.
IT:
When—when did the switch over from the Issei working as farm labor, the worker, and
they diminished. Did that come out before WWII or a result of evacuation? Let me say
that they saved their money and became farmers and so on. But in the early thirties there
were quite a few that were migrating.
FH:
So called blanket boys?
IT:
Yeah, and you know they used to be a hotel that accommodated them.
SH:
There used to be camps.
IT:
Labor camps, I remember Paul Kawasaki?
SH:
Yeah.
IT:
His father was a contract—labor contractor in Delano.
SH:
Yeah.
FH:
Most of the young Nisei used to go into those camps.
IT:
I think I need to interview Eddie Nagatani, he probably has some thoughts of the labor
contractors.
FH:
Which one is Eddie?
IT:
He’s the older one.
SH:
Uh, the oldest was—
23
HIRASUNA
FH:
Jim.
SH:
No, George.
FH:
Oh George.
SH:
But somebody died?
IT:
Must have been George.
FH:
George died, I think.
IT:
Jim, Eddie and Ben is who I had.
FH:
And the Nagatanis used to be big farmers. Around Terra Bella, successful farmers. See
in Delano there were farmer’s associations in Delano and the Delano Grower’s Exchange
was composed of Japanese farmers from labor camps. That’s a good camera.
SH:
I’m sure it must be.
IT:
Well it’s amazing how they are so compact now and all kinds of (inaudible).
FH:
You can go direct from that into a larger tape.
IT:
Yeah I can put this tape into the adapter and play it in the VCR.
FH:
Yeah. That’s better than mine.
IT:
I can bring—I have a VCR in the car and I have a 9-inch one and I can plug it into this
and play it directly off of this. But I bought this so I can copy this tape onto the VCR
tape.
SH:
Amazing.
FH:
And then I can store the VCR tape and use these little tapes over. Yeah, I can go from
the camera to the TV and from the TV into the VCR. That is a little more complicated.
IT:
When were you on the grand jury?
SH:
That was quite a few years back.
24
FH:
HIRASUNA
I can’t remember that. That is quite a few years back. The year I was on there why
(Inaudible) was on there and one other guy.
SH:
Three of you?
FH:
And Cuomo was he?
SH:
(inaudible)
IT:
Okay, I’ll turn this off now.