Hiroshi Kusakai interview
Item
Title
eng
Hiroshi Kusakai interview
Description
eng
Talks about his parents immigrating to California from Japan, having two sisters in Japan and discusses his family's incarceration in the Fresno Assembly Center and later the Jerome War Relocation Center. He talks about his father's death during the war, his father's participation in Japanese organizations and running a laundry business in Fresno before the war. He discusses his early education at Lincoln Elementary, learning English, attending Fresno High School, Fresno State and having to suspend his education due to the attack on Pearl Harbor and the evacuation. He describes how he was drafted during the war and was sent by the Army to language school and later Japan and Korea. He talks about his experiences in Japan town and reminiscences about it growing up. He discusses attending college post-war, the impact of incarceration and changing careers. Lastly, he talks about his involvement in the JACL and his children and grandchildren.
Creator
eng
Kusakai, Hiroshi
eng
Taniguchi, Izumi
Relation
eng
JACL-CCDC Japanese American Oral History Collection
Coverage
eng
Fresno, California
Date
eng
9/28/1999
Format
eng
Microsoft Word 2003 document, 21 pages
Rights
eng
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
eng
SCMS_jacl_00014
extracted text
NARRATOR:
HIROSHI KUSAKAI
INTERVIEWER:
IZUMI TANIGUCHI
DATE:
September 28, 1999
IT:
My name is Izumi Taniguchi interviewing Hiro Kusakai. Today is September 28th and
Hiro will relate his experience in the central valley of California.
HK:
My name is Hiroshi Kusakai and I go by Hiro. And I like to start with the background of
my parents. My father came to the United States in the early 1900’s from Japan, and
there was a village he was born in was called Taiji in Yokohama-ken and he became I
believe because the family had problems paying bills, and he was here to earn money to
send back to pay back some debts and sometime before WWII, he settled—he first came
to San Francisco. He found work as a domestic, learning how to clean houses and
working his way up. He became a butler where he even had a full tuxedo to wait on the
tables of these millionaire people he was working for in Mill Valley
And I really don’t know when he was married and under what circumstances
except that I have two sisters in Japan who I did not know about until I was in my teen
years. My mother also was from the same village and she came over, I think he went
over, and was married and she came later to join him. They were interned in Fresno
Assembly Center along with my brother and I in Fresno County Fairgrounds. And we
moved from the Fairgrounds in October of ‘42 to Denson, Arkansas, which was called
the Jerome Relocation Center. And I left the center and my brother did also, but my
parents came back. Oh no, my father died in camp which was in Jerome so my mother
was widowed and she came back and settled in Fresno.
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Before the war, my father was a treasurer with the Wakayama-ken jinkai which
was an organization of Central California Wakayama people, and also my parents had us
enrolled in the kindergarten of the Japanese Congregational Church, not because they
were Christians but there was a Mrs.Aki who did a good job of recruiting people who
were on the fence as far as religion was concerned. And my father’s occupation was as
a—he started out working for his brother-in-law, who was my mother’s older brother
down in the Herndon area, working a large ranch and he worked as a second-in-command
to his brother-in-law and they had a labor camp and they farmed peaches, grapes and I
believe it was eighty acres of property owned by Mr. Ben Epstein of Fresno.
Later he moved to Fresno and I think it was in 1922 after my brother was born in
1921, I guess because of the depression and all that, they had the change their occupation.
and in the meantime, my brother-in-law, my father and brother-in-law whose name was
Mr. Sumi passed away, and I think that is why the change in circumstances, he opened up
a laundry on Mono and M Street and it was a hand laundry, and that is what he ended up
until evacuation. And I think he participated in the Japanese community. They had a
Japanese Association and they were very loyal to Japan because they were raised under
the Emperor as a God so every birthday, recognizing the Emperor’s birthday, they would
hold a celebration at the—what was called a theater on Kern and F, on F Street close to
Kern, and they would have a ceremony and he would participate and his job was to open
the curtains to show the Emperor’s picture. And I think as far as contributing to the
community, like all the people in the Fresno city that had businesses, they would always
be having to contribute to different organizations because they were business people.
Every time there was a donation to be had, he would be asked to donate and he did what
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he could in that manner. He was a great baseball fan and he would take his Model-T
Ford to Stockton.
I was born in Fresno right on Mono and F Street, and I have a brother who was
born in Herndon and he is two years older than I am and he passed away, so I am the lone
survivor except for my two sisters who—one is—one passed away and the other one is
still living in the former home of my parents, which is Taiji, Japan.
And I attended Lincoln School like a lot of my friends in the neighborhood. And
most of the Japanese and Hispanic and Chinese that didn’t speak English at home or their
parents didn’t, were put into a vocabulary class for about three months before we were
admitted into kindergarten. It was a league of nations because the community in Fresno
at that time was made up of Japanese, Chinese, German, Russian, Italian and the blacks.
Most of the time after school, we were enrolled in Japanese, some of us went to Japanese
school so our social activities centered around mostly Japanese children. The teachers
were very helpful because they were dealing with a lot of second-generation immigrant
children. And we felt, at that time, it didn’t dawn on us too much the separation of the
races except that we were different colors and we had distinct characteristics like the
Italians and the Germans and of course, the Hispanic and the black. The Chinese and
Japanese, for some reason, we couldn’t tell of which race we were.
The parents most of the time—in those days the PTA was not a big item and they
probably would not attend the PTA meeting because they had a problem with the
language. As far as the school work, the boys were only interested in playing softball and
soccer or becoming safety patrol officer because that was a—you could get out of class
early sometimes. And also they had, when you got into the fifth and sixth grade, they did
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have mimeograph newspaper and one of the better job was to get to mimeograph the
paper because you would get excused from classes to work on the paper. As far as
participating in athletics, most of my friends, we all went out for basketball and we were
too small for football at the level of junior high school, which was the eighth and ninth
grade, but most of us did compete in basketball because they had it broken down into the
varsity and the middle group called A, B and C. And C class was what most of us fit
into. At one time, like my brother’s Class B basketball team was a league of all nations
because it consisted of black person that was six feet tall and there was a Chinese fellow
named Wong, the little Japanese was my brother, and Schmidt, the German Russian, and
let’s see, an Italian, so we had five different races in that one high school basketball team
which is Class B. And most of us were small in stature so we usually ended up in Class
C or B through high school. And we were very successful in the classes, the C Class
area, although there were a few of my friends that were good enough even though they
were not as big in stature, they were able to compete in A Class in basketball and track.
One particular person that I know in 1940 or ‘40—he graduated in 1940, he made the
varsity football team and as far as clubs go, I think most of my friends that were smart
made the CSF. I wasn’t in that category but we were awarded the athletic letters to wear
on our sweaters if we wanted to.
I attended Fresno High School and graduated in 1941. Most of my socializing as
far as I was concerned, I was a member of the Japanese Congregational Church and we
had a basketball program and we would play sandlot football sometimes, and our big
rivalry was the Fresno Buddhist Church with the Fresno YBA and we’d have basketball
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and football competition on weekends, but most of my teen years, all I remember is,
playing basketball at the church ground and participating in track and we did have
makeshift sawdust pits and had our own competition.
And the Congregational Church at that time, before the war, sponsored a Boy
Scout troop and we had an outstanding scoutmaster and his name was Mr. Ferraro. And
the big—the big thing about a Friday night meeting was he would bring hot dogs and all
of us would try to eat as much as we could and see who was the biggest eater of hot dogs,
because he enjoyed very much all of us kids that were deprived of the West Side to be
able to eat hot dogs free and all we wanted on Friday because of Mr. Ferraro. And the
Boy Scout troop somehow we begged our parents and we had, I don’t know how we
raised the money, but we did have a drum and bugle corps. And we did march in the
parade and for some reason, after Pearl Harbor, the scoutmaster thought it would be a
good idea that since it is too marshaled, so we had better put away our drum and bugle
for the duration.
And as far as—I didn’t participate in kendo or judo but that was pretty, quite an
activity in this area, and we did have a Mr. Kawai who taught both judo and kendo. And
of course, as far as other things like swimming, the community pool Frank H. Ball did
not get built until just prior to the war and was on the West Side so there was no
discrimination, but there was discrimination as far as swimming at Laymouth Pool which
was on the West Side. They would not admit any Japanese and people of color into the
pool but one exception was Mr. Tom Sidle, we called him “Fish” because he swam so
well. He was on the Fresno High swimming team so he got to practice in their pool,
although in fairness, Hendrick’s pool which was on the—for us it was on the east side of
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town, we were able to go swimming there without any exclusion of any race. And I
didn’t think it was a big deal at the time but now I realize it was a good gesture on their
part to allow us to swim there.
And I was one of the lucky ones to have a job at fifteen because a neighbor of
mine, Mr. Tsujimoto, was a manager at West Fresno Drug Store, which is a well known
store in Fresno at that time, and they had a toy store which they opened up for Christmas
in October through December and he asked me if I would like to work there on a
Saturday and I said sure, and that was my first job and in those days that is big money,
you know, to get a dollar for a day’s work because there was no jobs at that time for
teenagers. One significant things was one Sunday and this toy store was in the basement
of that building located on Kern and F Street which his now the Nikkei Service Center, I
was working in the basement and I went in the morning at eight o’clock and from eight to
twelve and not one customer came into the store. And about eleven o’clock or whenever
we got the news, somebody came down and said, ‘”They bombed Pearl Harbor.” And I
said, “What’s Pearl Harbor and who bombed it?” And so the Japanese bombed Pearl
Harbor and we were just all in shock (inaudible), then later on we said that is why nobody
came to the store to shop. It was quite a shock, and that is when I knew about Pearl
Harbor.
And right before Pearl Harbor, I graduated in Fresno High School in ‘41, I did
attend Fresno State College in the fall of ‘41 and managed to get one full semester in and
then started on the second semester and I was going to major in accounting and we did
have, I think, we did have a Japanese student club at that time. I didn’t get involved in
larger college politics but I did get to know a person who later became our assemblyman
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and senator and judge, Mr. Zenovich, and one of the things we recalled when I talked to
him because I was on the—it was at that time the Fresno State College Library, an area in
front, and he said to me the day before we were—the week before we were to go to the
assembly center ,“You really don’t have to go.” I said, “Okay, George.” Because
George Zenovich was his name and I said, “If I’m not here Monday morning, you know
I’m gone then.” And every time I meet him, which is not too often, we talk about that.
One thing even—I was taking fundamental speech and one young lady there
thought that we were spies, all of us were spies so we should be rounded up and put in
jail and our speech professor was really upset, and you know, she said that she was glad
there were only eight of us in the class, and he knew and I knew who she was talking
about and he was really upset. And the teacher was Mr. McGraw and he used to come to
our youth meetings at our church on Sundays and once a year, we’d have him speak to us
so he knew us pretty well, the Americans more than Japanese.
As far as a timeline, we had to leave in 1942 so most of us were asked if we
wanted to take an incomplete or get a grade that we had. Since my grades were not too
good, I said I’ll take an incomplete. And those who had good grades naturally took their
A’s and B’s. And I was, so I don’t know much about college life until after the war, and
then I went to college and I’m in the sophomore class with youngsters that are four years
younger than I am, and all the veterans are in their twenty-five to thirty years of age and
youngsters coming in are eighteen years old. So it was quite an adjustment to make
going to school and then working and going to school at the same time was a little bit
difficult. All during college the only job we could find was laboring in the fields at that
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time. There was no McDonald’s to work for. So all the job we had was labor work in the
fields. Those that were as unlucky, could not find any job at all.
But upon graduation I was lucky enough to find a job with an accounting firm.
And the funny part of that was that somebody told me about an opening that he didn’t get
because they thought he looked too youthful. He had better grades than I did in
accounting and he said, “Why don’t you go and apply. They are looking for somebody.”
So I did apply and it was a firm that the owner was a customer of my dad’s when he was
doing the laundry. The father and son owned the firm with a few other partners and I
don’t know if that had anything to do with it because I told him that my grades weren’t
top-notch, but I had a lot of experience in working and all I could offer was I would be
there from eight o’clock until five o’clock and put in my hours and as far as accounting
goes, it was not my first love. But maybe he was impressed with my father’s work or
whatever it was. He called me up two weeks later and said I was hired and I was shocked
that he did hire me and that was my first job. It was a CPA firm, one of the largest firms
in town. So you never know in life who you will meet and what circumstances will turn
out to be a good thing. And that was my first job. And throughout my career I just think
about things like that—the small things turn into large things. It has an impact on your
life.
During college we had a Japanese student club after the war and we had a pretty
good turn out. And we even had a statewide college conference and I met my wife at
college and I waited until she graduated and we did get married. And we have a boy and
a girl and unfortunately, my son had a, it was an accident and he was killed and so the
survivor I have only my daughter and our family is very small. And the name itself, there
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are not too many Kusakai’s around. In fact, I don’t know of any in the states and even in
Japan, they are very little, there.
As far as the Japanese Town, what it was then and what it is now is quite
different. In the old days the only relationship we had with Japanese Town was going
shopping at the different stores owned by the Japanese—department stores, and of course
Kogetsu-do, was there, and Komoto had the Japanese books and his records, Aki
Company, hardware, and then the Japanese barbershops, and our language school was
located—it was owned by the Japanese Congregational Church and it was located next to
what is now the Union Bank on Kern and F Street. And there were buildings there and
Fresno was known as a wide-open town in the old days, which means houses of
prostitution were winked at and never raided and we sat on the Japanese school steps and
we could look up into the screened porches and the ladies of the night would be sitting
there and we would engage in conversation with them. So we grew up pretty fast as far
as vice was concerned, and the Japanese language school was right below there and our
teachers had a hard time shooing us in and commenting, we shouldn’t be speaking to the
ladies.
Of course learning Japanese language at that time compared to the military
language school in Fort Snelling was quite different. And I learned more in six months at
Fort Snelling than I did the ten or twelve years I went to Japanese school. Because most
of the Japanese who was taught by, we did nothing but memorization so it was quite
interesting to attend a military language school and pick up so much in such a short of
time. And as far as military service, I was in camp but I did manage to go out and work
before I was drafted, and as far as that loyalty question, we debated it. It was between
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my brother and I because my father didn’t take part in—we were already—for some
reason he left—he was very open and he left us make our own decisions very early in life
and he said, that’s the reason he said, “I can’t—I may not be able to afford but I want you
to finish college.” He always said, “Once I do that, I think my job is done. It is up to you
guys to do what you want.” So he was always very open so he didn’t—he was not part of
the discussion, and my brother and I had no problems with it. In fact, he wanted to
volunteer for the Camp Savage but my dad at that time kind of said, “Why don’t you wait
because I only have two sons and when you are thinking about joining the armed forces
you know.” I guess he had the Japanese feeling that once you join, we don’t expect you
to come back. So anything could happen so I talked to my brother and said, “Why don’t
you wait? We are going to get drafted anyway.” And reluctantly, he did not volunteer at
that time. Because he was pretty well-versed in the Japanese language so he thought he
could help.
But as far as Pearl Harbor, it was really a shock, and I’ll never forget Professor
(inaudible) from Fresno State, pulled all the Japanese students that he could find into this
auditorium and he said, “We feel, I feel bad about it.” Speaking for himself, and he said
but you know, it is easy to get rid of this problem like the Russians do, by putting all of
you in the Pasadena Rose Bowl, the hundred thousand of you and just drop a bomb and
wipe you guys out and we wouldn’t have your problem. (laughs) And I thought, “Gee
whiz, he’s got a different perspective than we have.” But that’s—that kind of opens your
eyes, in a big sense we are nothing because a hundred thousand is not a lot of people and
in another sense he said he felt very much that the government was wrong.
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I was lucky enough to—not lucky, but for some reason, when I was drafted in
Chicago, my brother and I were drafted together and we went to Evanston and from there
we thought we would be shipped to Camp Blanding, which was where all of the Nisei
went, but we were split at that time. He left for Blanding and I was left behind for two
days and I ended up in Texas, and that was the start of when they started giving the
Niseis a break and moving them into different branches of the services. A friend of mine
was able to go to the armor and the medics and anti-tank division, and I forget what other
branches they were able to get into. I served—my father died when I was at Fort
Snelling. I went to basic training in Texas, then we were singled out to go to Fort
Snelling for language school. They did send a sergeant down to interview us and I
pretended I didn’t know anything about the Japanese language, but they must have a
history on us because they gave me an X and they gave a few others on a scale of one to
ten, and the ones that really wanted to go, didn’t get to go, and people that were reluctant
to go, like myself, we were being sent up to—that is how the army works, you know.
The men that want to go, can’t go, and the ones that didn’t care, got sent up to language
school.
So from there the war was over by the time I got through school so I spent my
time in Japan and Korea. And in Japan I was able to visit my relative and my one sister
that was there and it was very interesting traveling through Japan. But a—in camp you
were able to have a baseball diamond built and the school and the school P.E. activity,
that is where I got to work in P.E. classes. I got to work and I didn’t like to leave camp
because it was so secure, but when this friend of mine said, “Hey, I got you a job. They
pay room and board, and all I have to do is go up there so we got a place to live and we
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got a place to eat and sleep.” He said, “Why don’t you go with us?” So there were six of
us and we ended up as domestics and janitors and dishwashers at this school, and from
there I went to Chicago and then I got drafted and then I had my military service.
But as far as resettling—
IT:
Do you want to take a break?
HK:
Yeah.
I was in the service and then I came back and to resettle and didn’t have a
permanent home because we were renting before the war. So we had—we were not
landowners. So what we were able to do is, a friend invited us, more or less strongarmed us, into working at this farm, and we lived in a twenty-by-twenty tar paper shack,
resembling the old center so it was like old home week again. But anyway, fortunately,
between working and college, I was able to find a job that I talked about previously.
Now if you want to go back and talk about my younger years before the war when
I went to Japanese school that I described about where the Union Bank is right now.
Growing up, we all lived in the same area within almost a mile square, and my early
grammar school years, Fresno was made up of what I thought was Tulare Street on the
north and Ventura on the south and maybe D, D or C or where Lincoln School was
beyond the west side, and G Street was the border for the east side and we called it, some
would say, Japan Town, but to me personally it was always China Town. And the
Japanese businesses were located within that area that I described. And on F Street you
had restaurants, Kogetsu-do, West Fresno Drug, West Fresno—West Side Garage, and
also we had, going way back, we had dry good stores and of course on Tulare Street, we
had the hotel and a movie theater, two movie theaters before the war and they were both
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owned by Japanese. One was owned, the Ryan Theater was Mr. Nishioka and for a
while, the Bryson Theater was operated by Mr. Niwa, who left for the San Jose area for
strawberries, raising strawberries. And the Buddhist Church anchored one area, with the
Congregational Church south of that. Then the Okinobe Sanitarium and the Japanese
Sanitarium also, which is located between Kern and Tulare Street. Okinobe Sanitarium
was located Mono and E Street. The Chinese grocery stores were dotted, occupied most
of Tulare Street, and also you had the dry good stores, Chinese dry good stores, and the
Bank of America was an anchor, too. That was the only bank in West Fresno at the time.
So most of the banking was done early on until Wells Fargo moved in and they left also,
later on. As far as my childhood during grammar school, most of our shopping, I lived
on F and Mono so everything we wanted to buy was within four blocks of where you
lived and not too many people had automobiles because they did cost money and it was a
luxury item at that time so you could name the people that had automobiles for
transportation.
In those days some of the bachelors that lived in hotels or in homes that didn’t
have real nice baths liked to take baths at a public bathhouse and there were two of them
and many laborers that worked in the field would use these bathhouses that were run by
Japanese families. And in one particular area there was a barbershop and a bathhouse
and then behind them, there was the Chinese gambling places where some of the
bachelors—we called them “Blanket Boys” that followed the crops would go and try to
make money. We had one particular friend that every time he made money gambling, he
ended up drunk, and one time my mother had to drag him inside the house because he
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just passed out on our steps and she thought it was disgraceful to be seen that way, but he
was a bachelor and all he did was work and gamble because, what else was there to do.
As far as the old Japan Town where Union Bank is located now, they had a pool
hall and it changed three different hands between the early thirties to the end of the war,
the beginning of the war. But we had noodle shops and barbershops and shoe repair
shops and also right on the corner of F and Kern Street, we had Ito Dry Goods and then
down the street closer to G Street, we had Masuda Department Store which was mostly
yardage and clothing. And Dick’s Shoes was an institution at that time. He repaired—at
that time Dick Vacant’s (??) father repaired shoes and then he added shoes for sale later
on, and that place was in the alley close to what is now the old Aki store. That Aki’s
used to house West Fresno Garage and also forerunner to the Tokiwa Restaurant. So
what’s his name but he started a Chinese restaurant there. But way back when, before I
knew much about it, in the twenties, the whole block was owned by the Kamikawa
family and they even had their own bank at one time is what I understand. The Japanese
Association had a space, I believe, above the old Bank of America building which is on
Tulare and F Street and the building still exists today ,and it housed the dentist in that
building, Japanese dentist and the first dentist that I remember—now I forgot his name
and he, along with Fuzzy Inada, took over that practice and were one of the pillars of the
community and also a good JACL pioneer with Dr. Yatabe, who practiced in the building
right above the Aki Hardware Store, I believe, or close to there and what we knew at one
time as the Hotel Asia or Asia Hotel or was it Western Hotel? I forget, we are going
back more than fifty years, so my memory is not what it used to be.
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After leaving camp I got to go to college, and like I said, we had to find a place to
stay so the farmer was good enough to find us work on that ranch, and I went to college
and finally graduated and got married and started my career and I rented a place in
downtown Fresno for fifty dollars a month and it was a one bedroom and in order to wash
your face, you sat on the bathtub because there wasn’t enough room to move around.
As part of resettling, the only help I had was the discharge. I forgot how much I
got, a hundred or two hundred dollars from discharge, but most of that I can’t remember.
The hardship was in trying to figure out how to save enough money to go to college but
because of the military, that made it much easier and I forget what they called it but we
used to got so much a week from the military or it was unemployment insurance, I don’t
know which it was, but somehow managed to scrap enough to get by. I saved some
money. Most of us at that veterans, worked and went to college at the same time so I was
able to save some money, just enough to get by. And I think my story is no different
from anybody else’s that were taught that don’t buy anything until you have enough
money to pay for it. And borrowing money was a no-no and that was impressed upon
my brother and I, and the reason my father said that he had to come home because people
borrowed from the family and they couldn’t pay it back so he said it is a good thing the
family went broke, otherwise I would be in Japan and probably in the Japanese army and
I would be dead by now. So things worked out.
My father’s parents were ship’s chandler and that village of Tanji is a whaling and
fishing village, and the boat owners would borrow from my grandparents and I guess
they didn’t pay their debts so I guess that is why I was able to be born in America, and
I’m happy about that because one misfortune turned out to be my good fortune.
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[new tape]
I’d like to think about what happened after camp was through and what happened
recently, going backwards was, I was lucky enough to—I thought I was always fortunate
in my career because I only had about three different jobs, and the most important part
appears to be when I became fifty-five and changed careers and went to governmental
work. I didn’t think anybody would be hired at that age but fortunately I was hired and I
retired—I was able to retire after working for Fresno County but I went into accounting
because at least that way I had a technical skill. I discussed my career with a Mr. Forrest
Brown who was my advisor at Fresno State College and I wanted to go into teaching.
And I liked history and social sciences but he said, you know at this time it is pretty hard
after you get your credentials to be hired by a school district because of your race. He
was from Ohio. And he didn’t look at it from the California point of view. He said
maybe you should discuss this with one of your other advisors so I decided to finish up in
accounting because that way they measured you on your technical abilities, so I did
finish, you know, like I described how I was able to get a job. I did that for ten years but
it became a chore because tax season was always a long, and one thing, March, people
don’t realize but March 15th was a deadline at one time and when they extended to April
15th, that just made more overtime without overtime pay. Once you get into supervisory
and higher earnings, well the earnings were not that high, you get no overtime. So
sometimes your junior workers had more pay at the end of the year than you did. And
those kinds of redundant and type of work that you did, so people thought I was crazy but
I have my CPA certificate and I worked a few years and then I decided somebody
recruited me to go into selling life insurance.
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And when I was a youngster in grammar school and junior high school and high
school, think about different professions and it seems like they had big cars and drove
around and wore suits and so it seemed like a good profession as a kid. But it always
stuck in the back of my mind. So I did go into insurance and did that for about seventeen
years and then I got my CIU which is not quite—it’s a designation but not a license. But
it was recognized in the profession but then I got a position with the County of Fresno
and interesting enough, what happened was that child support enforcement, which meant
collecting child support from absent fathers and divorced parents, was transferred into the
District Attorney’s Office where they had more teeth, and that happened in 1976 and they
were looking for an accountant to head the collection unit. And it was a new position and
I was able to get that position and interestingly enough, I don’t know what happened. It
is a difficult situation collecting money and they had just signed a bill now that taking it
away and setting up a state bureaucracy to do this collection so I’m a little bit familiar of
what goes on in child support collection. That was my career in Fresno County for about
five years, then after that, there was a death in the Auditor’s Controller’s Office, then
they appointed a new controller and he asked me if I was interested in becoming his
assistance and there was an opening and it would be competitive and he said for me to
try. And fortunately, I was picked to be his assistant and that was one of the most
important things that happened to me, because this is just the end of my career, and I was
thinking of opening up my own practice of financial consulting and doing tax work but
more important than that, the mutual fund business and security business was phasing in
where life insurance and security sales and financial counseling was changing and it was
beginning to become a one-stop shop, and I either had to go into that or be self-employed
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KUSAKAI
or take this job with Fresno County. It was important that we all know the government
has a nice retirement plan and it is very difficult in private industry to accumulate enough
to have a nice retirement plan.
And then also the experience of setting up—I knew nothing about computers.
My son is well-versed in that. So I told the employer when he did the interviews that I
always got a free consultant, my son, if I cannot handle any of your computer moves. So
that is what—that was the later part of my career.
And then the wartime experience that really helped was knowing there was a
bigger world out there. When you live in a small community, and at one time Fresno was
the extent of your geography, and then going into the relocation center and seeing how
immense this country is. When you live as a Japanese-American in a Japanese-American
community, your horizons are limited. People didn’t own cars unless you were wealthy.
Very few people went to San Francisco or Los Angeles unless it was on business. And
just, it just expanded your horizon going into service and going into Japan and so it’s
quite an impact on your life. And now the different people you meet in the service and
also after service, traveling around the country. So the wartime experience is
something—the service you may not like but you didn’t mind doing it but you wouldn’t
want to repeat it.
Then settling after the war, coming back to Fresno, many of the old Fresno
people—my friends all did come back. So some of the childhood friends that I had, we
ended up playing golf or meet at different social functions, and going back to church, we
had new church members because we do have people moving in from other areas. And
so it was a—interesting to see the makeup. One of the organizations I was active in was
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KUSAKAI
the JACL. And it seemed that it was networking among ourselves. You became an
officer and then you picked on your friends to follow in your footsteps. Or you asked
them to help at the different organizational things that went on, like picnics. You would
pick on them and it was expanding the organization but now with the intermarriages and
the different needs that arises, it is getting very difficult to be a racial organization
because one of these days, how are you going to define who a Japanese is because some
of them may only have one-eighth Japanese blood in them.
My activity was limited during my self-employment here because it was much
easier to adjust your time budget and serve. And most of my—I didn’t join service clubs
because I felt that it was self-serving in a way and most of the people I did see were using
it more for business purposes than they did for the betterment of the community. That
was my idea about it. But I did join the CPA Society and the Life Underwriters and
because that was a write-off, and then the church took up some of that time because my
kids were growing up in the community. And we were dispersed at that time because
when I bought my house and this is a Cal-Vet and they asked me, you know, you are
going into an area where there aren’t too many Japanese or Chinese because they had a
restriction which was not constitutional. It would be declared unconstitutional at that
time but they did ask me at that time, well, there aren’t too many people of your race
there. But I said, hey, the neighbor is a Mexican next door I went to college with, yeah,
you are right there. So if you are going to be comfortable, we are going to approve the
loan. I thought then and that was in 1980s and 1990s and some of those things would be
a problem. If it is, they would have a problem with the lawsuits.
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KUSAKAI
Anyway, my activity as far as organizations, were with the church and the JACL.
Because of JACL, changing my job, my emphasis changed, and I was not too active after
I served the year but I was proud to be able to be recognized to receive the Sapphire Pin
Award. Other than that and the fact that I was (inaudible) for that. I didn’t do too much
in the redress and reparations. I did feel like I did contribute.
As far as the future, it is very difficult for our children and grandchildren.
Unfortunately, I don’t—it doesn’t appear that I will have a grandchild unless I adopt one.
They—she must be like many of the others, they don’t think of themselves as Japanese as
we did. They are of—they have a problem with identity and all they want to do is have a
good time, hobbies, own a home, and go on vacations. But I’m glad that among the
Sanseis and Niseis, we have so many outstanding young people. They are in large
Fortune 500 companies and we have people in research and every time I just shake my
head and wonder, they tell me about all the scholarship applicants and the grades that
they have and I always wonder what happened to my children. I guess the parents
weren’t smart enough to have ours have grades. But I am very proud to see that every
time men of our, men and women of Japanese ancestry doing to well in all fields, not just
in business but in arts and other areas where a lot of Nisei didn’t think they had a chance
to expose their ability in the fields of arts and theater but then that is coming so I am very
happy to see that. As far as, well—that’s about all I have to say.
IT:
Well, this about concludes the interview. Do you have anything else you want to add to
it?
21
HK:
KUSAKAI
No, there is so much. When you get this old, you forget so much but there is not much I
want to add to this because my story is no different, I’m sure, than many of my fellow
friends that were born in the year that I was.
IT:
Well, thank you for sharing your story. It will be available for researchers and historians.
END OF INTERVIEW
HIROSHI KUSAKAI
INTERVIEWER:
IZUMI TANIGUCHI
DATE:
September 28, 1999
IT:
My name is Izumi Taniguchi interviewing Hiro Kusakai. Today is September 28th and
Hiro will relate his experience in the central valley of California.
HK:
My name is Hiroshi Kusakai and I go by Hiro. And I like to start with the background of
my parents. My father came to the United States in the early 1900’s from Japan, and
there was a village he was born in was called Taiji in Yokohama-ken and he became I
believe because the family had problems paying bills, and he was here to earn money to
send back to pay back some debts and sometime before WWII, he settled—he first came
to San Francisco. He found work as a domestic, learning how to clean houses and
working his way up. He became a butler where he even had a full tuxedo to wait on the
tables of these millionaire people he was working for in Mill Valley
And I really don’t know when he was married and under what circumstances
except that I have two sisters in Japan who I did not know about until I was in my teen
years. My mother also was from the same village and she came over, I think he went
over, and was married and she came later to join him. They were interned in Fresno
Assembly Center along with my brother and I in Fresno County Fairgrounds. And we
moved from the Fairgrounds in October of ‘42 to Denson, Arkansas, which was called
the Jerome Relocation Center. And I left the center and my brother did also, but my
parents came back. Oh no, my father died in camp which was in Jerome so my mother
was widowed and she came back and settled in Fresno.
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KUSAKAI
Before the war, my father was a treasurer with the Wakayama-ken jinkai which
was an organization of Central California Wakayama people, and also my parents had us
enrolled in the kindergarten of the Japanese Congregational Church, not because they
were Christians but there was a Mrs.Aki who did a good job of recruiting people who
were on the fence as far as religion was concerned. And my father’s occupation was as
a—he started out working for his brother-in-law, who was my mother’s older brother
down in the Herndon area, working a large ranch and he worked as a second-in-command
to his brother-in-law and they had a labor camp and they farmed peaches, grapes and I
believe it was eighty acres of property owned by Mr. Ben Epstein of Fresno.
Later he moved to Fresno and I think it was in 1922 after my brother was born in
1921, I guess because of the depression and all that, they had the change their occupation.
and in the meantime, my brother-in-law, my father and brother-in-law whose name was
Mr. Sumi passed away, and I think that is why the change in circumstances, he opened up
a laundry on Mono and M Street and it was a hand laundry, and that is what he ended up
until evacuation. And I think he participated in the Japanese community. They had a
Japanese Association and they were very loyal to Japan because they were raised under
the Emperor as a God so every birthday, recognizing the Emperor’s birthday, they would
hold a celebration at the—what was called a theater on Kern and F, on F Street close to
Kern, and they would have a ceremony and he would participate and his job was to open
the curtains to show the Emperor’s picture. And I think as far as contributing to the
community, like all the people in the Fresno city that had businesses, they would always
be having to contribute to different organizations because they were business people.
Every time there was a donation to be had, he would be asked to donate and he did what
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KUSAKAI
he could in that manner. He was a great baseball fan and he would take his Model-T
Ford to Stockton.
I was born in Fresno right on Mono and F Street, and I have a brother who was
born in Herndon and he is two years older than I am and he passed away, so I am the lone
survivor except for my two sisters who—one is—one passed away and the other one is
still living in the former home of my parents, which is Taiji, Japan.
And I attended Lincoln School like a lot of my friends in the neighborhood. And
most of the Japanese and Hispanic and Chinese that didn’t speak English at home or their
parents didn’t, were put into a vocabulary class for about three months before we were
admitted into kindergarten. It was a league of nations because the community in Fresno
at that time was made up of Japanese, Chinese, German, Russian, Italian and the blacks.
Most of the time after school, we were enrolled in Japanese, some of us went to Japanese
school so our social activities centered around mostly Japanese children. The teachers
were very helpful because they were dealing with a lot of second-generation immigrant
children. And we felt, at that time, it didn’t dawn on us too much the separation of the
races except that we were different colors and we had distinct characteristics like the
Italians and the Germans and of course, the Hispanic and the black. The Chinese and
Japanese, for some reason, we couldn’t tell of which race we were.
The parents most of the time—in those days the PTA was not a big item and they
probably would not attend the PTA meeting because they had a problem with the
language. As far as the school work, the boys were only interested in playing softball and
soccer or becoming safety patrol officer because that was a—you could get out of class
early sometimes. And also they had, when you got into the fifth and sixth grade, they did
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KUSAKAI
have mimeograph newspaper and one of the better job was to get to mimeograph the
paper because you would get excused from classes to work on the paper. As far as
participating in athletics, most of my friends, we all went out for basketball and we were
too small for football at the level of junior high school, which was the eighth and ninth
grade, but most of us did compete in basketball because they had it broken down into the
varsity and the middle group called A, B and C. And C class was what most of us fit
into. At one time, like my brother’s Class B basketball team was a league of all nations
because it consisted of black person that was six feet tall and there was a Chinese fellow
named Wong, the little Japanese was my brother, and Schmidt, the German Russian, and
let’s see, an Italian, so we had five different races in that one high school basketball team
which is Class B. And most of us were small in stature so we usually ended up in Class
C or B through high school. And we were very successful in the classes, the C Class
area, although there were a few of my friends that were good enough even though they
were not as big in stature, they were able to compete in A Class in basketball and track.
One particular person that I know in 1940 or ‘40—he graduated in 1940, he made the
varsity football team and as far as clubs go, I think most of my friends that were smart
made the CSF. I wasn’t in that category but we were awarded the athletic letters to wear
on our sweaters if we wanted to.
I attended Fresno High School and graduated in 1941. Most of my socializing as
far as I was concerned, I was a member of the Japanese Congregational Church and we
had a basketball program and we would play sandlot football sometimes, and our big
rivalry was the Fresno Buddhist Church with the Fresno YBA and we’d have basketball
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KUSAKAI
and football competition on weekends, but most of my teen years, all I remember is,
playing basketball at the church ground and participating in track and we did have
makeshift sawdust pits and had our own competition.
And the Congregational Church at that time, before the war, sponsored a Boy
Scout troop and we had an outstanding scoutmaster and his name was Mr. Ferraro. And
the big—the big thing about a Friday night meeting was he would bring hot dogs and all
of us would try to eat as much as we could and see who was the biggest eater of hot dogs,
because he enjoyed very much all of us kids that were deprived of the West Side to be
able to eat hot dogs free and all we wanted on Friday because of Mr. Ferraro. And the
Boy Scout troop somehow we begged our parents and we had, I don’t know how we
raised the money, but we did have a drum and bugle corps. And we did march in the
parade and for some reason, after Pearl Harbor, the scoutmaster thought it would be a
good idea that since it is too marshaled, so we had better put away our drum and bugle
for the duration.
And as far as—I didn’t participate in kendo or judo but that was pretty, quite an
activity in this area, and we did have a Mr. Kawai who taught both judo and kendo. And
of course, as far as other things like swimming, the community pool Frank H. Ball did
not get built until just prior to the war and was on the West Side so there was no
discrimination, but there was discrimination as far as swimming at Laymouth Pool which
was on the West Side. They would not admit any Japanese and people of color into the
pool but one exception was Mr. Tom Sidle, we called him “Fish” because he swam so
well. He was on the Fresno High swimming team so he got to practice in their pool,
although in fairness, Hendrick’s pool which was on the—for us it was on the east side of
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KUSAKAI
town, we were able to go swimming there without any exclusion of any race. And I
didn’t think it was a big deal at the time but now I realize it was a good gesture on their
part to allow us to swim there.
And I was one of the lucky ones to have a job at fifteen because a neighbor of
mine, Mr. Tsujimoto, was a manager at West Fresno Drug Store, which is a well known
store in Fresno at that time, and they had a toy store which they opened up for Christmas
in October through December and he asked me if I would like to work there on a
Saturday and I said sure, and that was my first job and in those days that is big money,
you know, to get a dollar for a day’s work because there was no jobs at that time for
teenagers. One significant things was one Sunday and this toy store was in the basement
of that building located on Kern and F Street which his now the Nikkei Service Center, I
was working in the basement and I went in the morning at eight o’clock and from eight to
twelve and not one customer came into the store. And about eleven o’clock or whenever
we got the news, somebody came down and said, ‘”They bombed Pearl Harbor.” And I
said, “What’s Pearl Harbor and who bombed it?” And so the Japanese bombed Pearl
Harbor and we were just all in shock (inaudible), then later on we said that is why nobody
came to the store to shop. It was quite a shock, and that is when I knew about Pearl
Harbor.
And right before Pearl Harbor, I graduated in Fresno High School in ‘41, I did
attend Fresno State College in the fall of ‘41 and managed to get one full semester in and
then started on the second semester and I was going to major in accounting and we did
have, I think, we did have a Japanese student club at that time. I didn’t get involved in
larger college politics but I did get to know a person who later became our assemblyman
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KUSAKAI
and senator and judge, Mr. Zenovich, and one of the things we recalled when I talked to
him because I was on the—it was at that time the Fresno State College Library, an area in
front, and he said to me the day before we were—the week before we were to go to the
assembly center ,“You really don’t have to go.” I said, “Okay, George.” Because
George Zenovich was his name and I said, “If I’m not here Monday morning, you know
I’m gone then.” And every time I meet him, which is not too often, we talk about that.
One thing even—I was taking fundamental speech and one young lady there
thought that we were spies, all of us were spies so we should be rounded up and put in
jail and our speech professor was really upset, and you know, she said that she was glad
there were only eight of us in the class, and he knew and I knew who she was talking
about and he was really upset. And the teacher was Mr. McGraw and he used to come to
our youth meetings at our church on Sundays and once a year, we’d have him speak to us
so he knew us pretty well, the Americans more than Japanese.
As far as a timeline, we had to leave in 1942 so most of us were asked if we
wanted to take an incomplete or get a grade that we had. Since my grades were not too
good, I said I’ll take an incomplete. And those who had good grades naturally took their
A’s and B’s. And I was, so I don’t know much about college life until after the war, and
then I went to college and I’m in the sophomore class with youngsters that are four years
younger than I am, and all the veterans are in their twenty-five to thirty years of age and
youngsters coming in are eighteen years old. So it was quite an adjustment to make
going to school and then working and going to school at the same time was a little bit
difficult. All during college the only job we could find was laboring in the fields at that
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KUSAKAI
time. There was no McDonald’s to work for. So all the job we had was labor work in the
fields. Those that were as unlucky, could not find any job at all.
But upon graduation I was lucky enough to find a job with an accounting firm.
And the funny part of that was that somebody told me about an opening that he didn’t get
because they thought he looked too youthful. He had better grades than I did in
accounting and he said, “Why don’t you go and apply. They are looking for somebody.”
So I did apply and it was a firm that the owner was a customer of my dad’s when he was
doing the laundry. The father and son owned the firm with a few other partners and I
don’t know if that had anything to do with it because I told him that my grades weren’t
top-notch, but I had a lot of experience in working and all I could offer was I would be
there from eight o’clock until five o’clock and put in my hours and as far as accounting
goes, it was not my first love. But maybe he was impressed with my father’s work or
whatever it was. He called me up two weeks later and said I was hired and I was shocked
that he did hire me and that was my first job. It was a CPA firm, one of the largest firms
in town. So you never know in life who you will meet and what circumstances will turn
out to be a good thing. And that was my first job. And throughout my career I just think
about things like that—the small things turn into large things. It has an impact on your
life.
During college we had a Japanese student club after the war and we had a pretty
good turn out. And we even had a statewide college conference and I met my wife at
college and I waited until she graduated and we did get married. And we have a boy and
a girl and unfortunately, my son had a, it was an accident and he was killed and so the
survivor I have only my daughter and our family is very small. And the name itself, there
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KUSAKAI
are not too many Kusakai’s around. In fact, I don’t know of any in the states and even in
Japan, they are very little, there.
As far as the Japanese Town, what it was then and what it is now is quite
different. In the old days the only relationship we had with Japanese Town was going
shopping at the different stores owned by the Japanese—department stores, and of course
Kogetsu-do, was there, and Komoto had the Japanese books and his records, Aki
Company, hardware, and then the Japanese barbershops, and our language school was
located—it was owned by the Japanese Congregational Church and it was located next to
what is now the Union Bank on Kern and F Street. And there were buildings there and
Fresno was known as a wide-open town in the old days, which means houses of
prostitution were winked at and never raided and we sat on the Japanese school steps and
we could look up into the screened porches and the ladies of the night would be sitting
there and we would engage in conversation with them. So we grew up pretty fast as far
as vice was concerned, and the Japanese language school was right below there and our
teachers had a hard time shooing us in and commenting, we shouldn’t be speaking to the
ladies.
Of course learning Japanese language at that time compared to the military
language school in Fort Snelling was quite different. And I learned more in six months at
Fort Snelling than I did the ten or twelve years I went to Japanese school. Because most
of the Japanese who was taught by, we did nothing but memorization so it was quite
interesting to attend a military language school and pick up so much in such a short of
time. And as far as military service, I was in camp but I did manage to go out and work
before I was drafted, and as far as that loyalty question, we debated it. It was between
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KUSAKAI
my brother and I because my father didn’t take part in—we were already—for some
reason he left—he was very open and he left us make our own decisions very early in life
and he said, that’s the reason he said, “I can’t—I may not be able to afford but I want you
to finish college.” He always said, “Once I do that, I think my job is done. It is up to you
guys to do what you want.” So he was always very open so he didn’t—he was not part of
the discussion, and my brother and I had no problems with it. In fact, he wanted to
volunteer for the Camp Savage but my dad at that time kind of said, “Why don’t you wait
because I only have two sons and when you are thinking about joining the armed forces
you know.” I guess he had the Japanese feeling that once you join, we don’t expect you
to come back. So anything could happen so I talked to my brother and said, “Why don’t
you wait? We are going to get drafted anyway.” And reluctantly, he did not volunteer at
that time. Because he was pretty well-versed in the Japanese language so he thought he
could help.
But as far as Pearl Harbor, it was really a shock, and I’ll never forget Professor
(inaudible) from Fresno State, pulled all the Japanese students that he could find into this
auditorium and he said, “We feel, I feel bad about it.” Speaking for himself, and he said
but you know, it is easy to get rid of this problem like the Russians do, by putting all of
you in the Pasadena Rose Bowl, the hundred thousand of you and just drop a bomb and
wipe you guys out and we wouldn’t have your problem. (laughs) And I thought, “Gee
whiz, he’s got a different perspective than we have.” But that’s—that kind of opens your
eyes, in a big sense we are nothing because a hundred thousand is not a lot of people and
in another sense he said he felt very much that the government was wrong.
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KUSAKAI
I was lucky enough to—not lucky, but for some reason, when I was drafted in
Chicago, my brother and I were drafted together and we went to Evanston and from there
we thought we would be shipped to Camp Blanding, which was where all of the Nisei
went, but we were split at that time. He left for Blanding and I was left behind for two
days and I ended up in Texas, and that was the start of when they started giving the
Niseis a break and moving them into different branches of the services. A friend of mine
was able to go to the armor and the medics and anti-tank division, and I forget what other
branches they were able to get into. I served—my father died when I was at Fort
Snelling. I went to basic training in Texas, then we were singled out to go to Fort
Snelling for language school. They did send a sergeant down to interview us and I
pretended I didn’t know anything about the Japanese language, but they must have a
history on us because they gave me an X and they gave a few others on a scale of one to
ten, and the ones that really wanted to go, didn’t get to go, and people that were reluctant
to go, like myself, we were being sent up to—that is how the army works, you know.
The men that want to go, can’t go, and the ones that didn’t care, got sent up to language
school.
So from there the war was over by the time I got through school so I spent my
time in Japan and Korea. And in Japan I was able to visit my relative and my one sister
that was there and it was very interesting traveling through Japan. But a—in camp you
were able to have a baseball diamond built and the school and the school P.E. activity,
that is where I got to work in P.E. classes. I got to work and I didn’t like to leave camp
because it was so secure, but when this friend of mine said, “Hey, I got you a job. They
pay room and board, and all I have to do is go up there so we got a place to live and we
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KUSAKAI
got a place to eat and sleep.” He said, “Why don’t you go with us?” So there were six of
us and we ended up as domestics and janitors and dishwashers at this school, and from
there I went to Chicago and then I got drafted and then I had my military service.
But as far as resettling—
IT:
Do you want to take a break?
HK:
Yeah.
I was in the service and then I came back and to resettle and didn’t have a
permanent home because we were renting before the war. So we had—we were not
landowners. So what we were able to do is, a friend invited us, more or less strongarmed us, into working at this farm, and we lived in a twenty-by-twenty tar paper shack,
resembling the old center so it was like old home week again. But anyway, fortunately,
between working and college, I was able to find a job that I talked about previously.
Now if you want to go back and talk about my younger years before the war when
I went to Japanese school that I described about where the Union Bank is right now.
Growing up, we all lived in the same area within almost a mile square, and my early
grammar school years, Fresno was made up of what I thought was Tulare Street on the
north and Ventura on the south and maybe D, D or C or where Lincoln School was
beyond the west side, and G Street was the border for the east side and we called it, some
would say, Japan Town, but to me personally it was always China Town. And the
Japanese businesses were located within that area that I described. And on F Street you
had restaurants, Kogetsu-do, West Fresno Drug, West Fresno—West Side Garage, and
also we had, going way back, we had dry good stores and of course on Tulare Street, we
had the hotel and a movie theater, two movie theaters before the war and they were both
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KUSAKAI
owned by Japanese. One was owned, the Ryan Theater was Mr. Nishioka and for a
while, the Bryson Theater was operated by Mr. Niwa, who left for the San Jose area for
strawberries, raising strawberries. And the Buddhist Church anchored one area, with the
Congregational Church south of that. Then the Okinobe Sanitarium and the Japanese
Sanitarium also, which is located between Kern and Tulare Street. Okinobe Sanitarium
was located Mono and E Street. The Chinese grocery stores were dotted, occupied most
of Tulare Street, and also you had the dry good stores, Chinese dry good stores, and the
Bank of America was an anchor, too. That was the only bank in West Fresno at the time.
So most of the banking was done early on until Wells Fargo moved in and they left also,
later on. As far as my childhood during grammar school, most of our shopping, I lived
on F and Mono so everything we wanted to buy was within four blocks of where you
lived and not too many people had automobiles because they did cost money and it was a
luxury item at that time so you could name the people that had automobiles for
transportation.
In those days some of the bachelors that lived in hotels or in homes that didn’t
have real nice baths liked to take baths at a public bathhouse and there were two of them
and many laborers that worked in the field would use these bathhouses that were run by
Japanese families. And in one particular area there was a barbershop and a bathhouse
and then behind them, there was the Chinese gambling places where some of the
bachelors—we called them “Blanket Boys” that followed the crops would go and try to
make money. We had one particular friend that every time he made money gambling, he
ended up drunk, and one time my mother had to drag him inside the house because he
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KUSAKAI
just passed out on our steps and she thought it was disgraceful to be seen that way, but he
was a bachelor and all he did was work and gamble because, what else was there to do.
As far as the old Japan Town where Union Bank is located now, they had a pool
hall and it changed three different hands between the early thirties to the end of the war,
the beginning of the war. But we had noodle shops and barbershops and shoe repair
shops and also right on the corner of F and Kern Street, we had Ito Dry Goods and then
down the street closer to G Street, we had Masuda Department Store which was mostly
yardage and clothing. And Dick’s Shoes was an institution at that time. He repaired—at
that time Dick Vacant’s (??) father repaired shoes and then he added shoes for sale later
on, and that place was in the alley close to what is now the old Aki store. That Aki’s
used to house West Fresno Garage and also forerunner to the Tokiwa Restaurant. So
what’s his name but he started a Chinese restaurant there. But way back when, before I
knew much about it, in the twenties, the whole block was owned by the Kamikawa
family and they even had their own bank at one time is what I understand. The Japanese
Association had a space, I believe, above the old Bank of America building which is on
Tulare and F Street and the building still exists today ,and it housed the dentist in that
building, Japanese dentist and the first dentist that I remember—now I forgot his name
and he, along with Fuzzy Inada, took over that practice and were one of the pillars of the
community and also a good JACL pioneer with Dr. Yatabe, who practiced in the building
right above the Aki Hardware Store, I believe, or close to there and what we knew at one
time as the Hotel Asia or Asia Hotel or was it Western Hotel? I forget, we are going
back more than fifty years, so my memory is not what it used to be.
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KUSAKAI
After leaving camp I got to go to college, and like I said, we had to find a place to
stay so the farmer was good enough to find us work on that ranch, and I went to college
and finally graduated and got married and started my career and I rented a place in
downtown Fresno for fifty dollars a month and it was a one bedroom and in order to wash
your face, you sat on the bathtub because there wasn’t enough room to move around.
As part of resettling, the only help I had was the discharge. I forgot how much I
got, a hundred or two hundred dollars from discharge, but most of that I can’t remember.
The hardship was in trying to figure out how to save enough money to go to college but
because of the military, that made it much easier and I forget what they called it but we
used to got so much a week from the military or it was unemployment insurance, I don’t
know which it was, but somehow managed to scrap enough to get by. I saved some
money. Most of us at that veterans, worked and went to college at the same time so I was
able to save some money, just enough to get by. And I think my story is no different
from anybody else’s that were taught that don’t buy anything until you have enough
money to pay for it. And borrowing money was a no-no and that was impressed upon
my brother and I, and the reason my father said that he had to come home because people
borrowed from the family and they couldn’t pay it back so he said it is a good thing the
family went broke, otherwise I would be in Japan and probably in the Japanese army and
I would be dead by now. So things worked out.
My father’s parents were ship’s chandler and that village of Tanji is a whaling and
fishing village, and the boat owners would borrow from my grandparents and I guess
they didn’t pay their debts so I guess that is why I was able to be born in America, and
I’m happy about that because one misfortune turned out to be my good fortune.
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KUSAKAI
[new tape]
I’d like to think about what happened after camp was through and what happened
recently, going backwards was, I was lucky enough to—I thought I was always fortunate
in my career because I only had about three different jobs, and the most important part
appears to be when I became fifty-five and changed careers and went to governmental
work. I didn’t think anybody would be hired at that age but fortunately I was hired and I
retired—I was able to retire after working for Fresno County but I went into accounting
because at least that way I had a technical skill. I discussed my career with a Mr. Forrest
Brown who was my advisor at Fresno State College and I wanted to go into teaching.
And I liked history and social sciences but he said, you know at this time it is pretty hard
after you get your credentials to be hired by a school district because of your race. He
was from Ohio. And he didn’t look at it from the California point of view. He said
maybe you should discuss this with one of your other advisors so I decided to finish up in
accounting because that way they measured you on your technical abilities, so I did
finish, you know, like I described how I was able to get a job. I did that for ten years but
it became a chore because tax season was always a long, and one thing, March, people
don’t realize but March 15th was a deadline at one time and when they extended to April
15th, that just made more overtime without overtime pay. Once you get into supervisory
and higher earnings, well the earnings were not that high, you get no overtime. So
sometimes your junior workers had more pay at the end of the year than you did. And
those kinds of redundant and type of work that you did, so people thought I was crazy but
I have my CPA certificate and I worked a few years and then I decided somebody
recruited me to go into selling life insurance.
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KUSAKAI
And when I was a youngster in grammar school and junior high school and high
school, think about different professions and it seems like they had big cars and drove
around and wore suits and so it seemed like a good profession as a kid. But it always
stuck in the back of my mind. So I did go into insurance and did that for about seventeen
years and then I got my CIU which is not quite—it’s a designation but not a license. But
it was recognized in the profession but then I got a position with the County of Fresno
and interesting enough, what happened was that child support enforcement, which meant
collecting child support from absent fathers and divorced parents, was transferred into the
District Attorney’s Office where they had more teeth, and that happened in 1976 and they
were looking for an accountant to head the collection unit. And it was a new position and
I was able to get that position and interestingly enough, I don’t know what happened. It
is a difficult situation collecting money and they had just signed a bill now that taking it
away and setting up a state bureaucracy to do this collection so I’m a little bit familiar of
what goes on in child support collection. That was my career in Fresno County for about
five years, then after that, there was a death in the Auditor’s Controller’s Office, then
they appointed a new controller and he asked me if I was interested in becoming his
assistance and there was an opening and it would be competitive and he said for me to
try. And fortunately, I was picked to be his assistant and that was one of the most
important things that happened to me, because this is just the end of my career, and I was
thinking of opening up my own practice of financial consulting and doing tax work but
more important than that, the mutual fund business and security business was phasing in
where life insurance and security sales and financial counseling was changing and it was
beginning to become a one-stop shop, and I either had to go into that or be self-employed
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KUSAKAI
or take this job with Fresno County. It was important that we all know the government
has a nice retirement plan and it is very difficult in private industry to accumulate enough
to have a nice retirement plan.
And then also the experience of setting up—I knew nothing about computers.
My son is well-versed in that. So I told the employer when he did the interviews that I
always got a free consultant, my son, if I cannot handle any of your computer moves. So
that is what—that was the later part of my career.
And then the wartime experience that really helped was knowing there was a
bigger world out there. When you live in a small community, and at one time Fresno was
the extent of your geography, and then going into the relocation center and seeing how
immense this country is. When you live as a Japanese-American in a Japanese-American
community, your horizons are limited. People didn’t own cars unless you were wealthy.
Very few people went to San Francisco or Los Angeles unless it was on business. And
just, it just expanded your horizon going into service and going into Japan and so it’s
quite an impact on your life. And now the different people you meet in the service and
also after service, traveling around the country. So the wartime experience is
something—the service you may not like but you didn’t mind doing it but you wouldn’t
want to repeat it.
Then settling after the war, coming back to Fresno, many of the old Fresno
people—my friends all did come back. So some of the childhood friends that I had, we
ended up playing golf or meet at different social functions, and going back to church, we
had new church members because we do have people moving in from other areas. And
so it was a—interesting to see the makeup. One of the organizations I was active in was
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KUSAKAI
the JACL. And it seemed that it was networking among ourselves. You became an
officer and then you picked on your friends to follow in your footsteps. Or you asked
them to help at the different organizational things that went on, like picnics. You would
pick on them and it was expanding the organization but now with the intermarriages and
the different needs that arises, it is getting very difficult to be a racial organization
because one of these days, how are you going to define who a Japanese is because some
of them may only have one-eighth Japanese blood in them.
My activity was limited during my self-employment here because it was much
easier to adjust your time budget and serve. And most of my—I didn’t join service clubs
because I felt that it was self-serving in a way and most of the people I did see were using
it more for business purposes than they did for the betterment of the community. That
was my idea about it. But I did join the CPA Society and the Life Underwriters and
because that was a write-off, and then the church took up some of that time because my
kids were growing up in the community. And we were dispersed at that time because
when I bought my house and this is a Cal-Vet and they asked me, you know, you are
going into an area where there aren’t too many Japanese or Chinese because they had a
restriction which was not constitutional. It would be declared unconstitutional at that
time but they did ask me at that time, well, there aren’t too many people of your race
there. But I said, hey, the neighbor is a Mexican next door I went to college with, yeah,
you are right there. So if you are going to be comfortable, we are going to approve the
loan. I thought then and that was in 1980s and 1990s and some of those things would be
a problem. If it is, they would have a problem with the lawsuits.
20
KUSAKAI
Anyway, my activity as far as organizations, were with the church and the JACL.
Because of JACL, changing my job, my emphasis changed, and I was not too active after
I served the year but I was proud to be able to be recognized to receive the Sapphire Pin
Award. Other than that and the fact that I was (inaudible) for that. I didn’t do too much
in the redress and reparations. I did feel like I did contribute.
As far as the future, it is very difficult for our children and grandchildren.
Unfortunately, I don’t—it doesn’t appear that I will have a grandchild unless I adopt one.
They—she must be like many of the others, they don’t think of themselves as Japanese as
we did. They are of—they have a problem with identity and all they want to do is have a
good time, hobbies, own a home, and go on vacations. But I’m glad that among the
Sanseis and Niseis, we have so many outstanding young people. They are in large
Fortune 500 companies and we have people in research and every time I just shake my
head and wonder, they tell me about all the scholarship applicants and the grades that
they have and I always wonder what happened to my children. I guess the parents
weren’t smart enough to have ours have grades. But I am very proud to see that every
time men of our, men and women of Japanese ancestry doing to well in all fields, not just
in business but in arts and other areas where a lot of Nisei didn’t think they had a chance
to expose their ability in the fields of arts and theater but then that is coming so I am very
happy to see that. As far as, well—that’s about all I have to say.
IT:
Well, this about concludes the interview. Do you have anything else you want to add to
it?
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HK:
KUSAKAI
No, there is so much. When you get this old, you forget so much but there is not much I
want to add to this because my story is no different, I’m sure, than many of my fellow
friends that were born in the year that I was.
IT:
Well, thank you for sharing your story. It will be available for researchers and historians.
END OF INTERVIEW