Takashi Tsutsui interview
Item
Title
eng
Takashi Tsutsui interview
Description
eng
Discusses his father coming to the United States from Japan, to be adopted by an uncle. He recounts the story of a man on horseback with a shotgun who whipped his father's cousin's face with a rope. Talks about his father opening a fish market in Hanford that catered largely to Portuguese customers. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, he and his family were sent to the Poston War Relocation Center. He explains the materials the buildings at Poston were constructed from, as well as life in the camp, and cousin volunteering for military service. After the war his family moved to Selma, California. States that his father, who worked as a ranch foreman for 30 years, did not take a vacation between 1945 and 1985.
Creator
eng
Tsustui, Takashi
eng
Kumano, Ralph
Relation
eng
JACL-CCDC Japanese American Oral History Collection
Coverage
eng
Kingsburg, California
Date
eng
7/28/2005
Format
eng
Microsoft Word 2003 document, 36 pages
Rights
eng
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
eng
SCMS_jacl_00006
extracted text
NARRATOR:
TAKASHI TSUTSUI
INTERVIEWER:
RALPH KUMANO
DATE:
July 28, 2005
RK:
We are in Kingsburg, Californi,a on July 28, 2005, at the home of Takashi Tsutsui, a
Nisei man who is seventy-three years of age. This interview will be part of the Izumi
Taniguchi Oral History Program housed in the Special Collection unit of the Henry
Madden Library at California State University of Fresno. My name is Ralph Kumano of
the Central California District Council, which is part of the Japanese-American Citizens
League. Okay, Takashi, we are going to start with life before WWII and one of the
questions will be of the family and the home life. Where were you born?
TT:
Fresno.
RK:
Okay, and on what date?
TT:
January 21, 1932.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And at that time there was midwives so I was born in a house on Chestnut Avenue.
RK:
Okay, and what was your father’s—family’s line of work at that time in Fresno?
TT:
At that time, he was a farmer.
RK:
Okay, and your father was he an Issei?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
And he came over from Japan?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
Roughly what was the date if you can recall?
TT:
It was in 1916, I think.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, and then, was he married to your mother or did that happen after?
TT:
No, he came over to be adopted by his uncle.
RK:
Oh, okay. And then later he met your mother?
TT:
Well, he went back again to Japan and married her.
RK:
And then came back, okay. And then you were born, okay. How many brothers and
sisters did you have?
TT:
Two brothers and two sisters.
RK:
And where did you fall in the family line?
TT:
Middle.
RK:
Okay, you are right in the middle, okay. And what were the orders of the brothers and
sisters?
TT:
The oldest one was a sister named Toshiye.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Then a brother named Marvin.
RK:
Okay, and then you.
TT:
And then a sister named Tadaho and a brother named Hideo.
RK:
Okay, what do you remember of early family life when you were living in Fresno?
TT:
Well, living in Fresno, I don’t remember a thing.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
I was too young. But my father rented a farm above the Lane’s Bridge. It is not there
anymore. The Lane Bridge isn’t there. And I remember one night he was gone. His
cousin was checking a ditch for irrigation and his cousin came running to the house and
told my mother to lock the doors. There is a drunk guy on a horse. And he was dragging
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TSUTSUI
a rope and he told my father’s cousin to peer up that rope, and he had a double barrel
shotgun across his saddle so my father’s cousin got the rope for him and he whipped it
across my father’s cousin’s face.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
And made one side bloodshot and he told my mother that he was going to go over to a
family named Torri for help. While he was gone, my dad came home and asked my mom
who threw everything out of the pump house. And my mom told him that this drunk man
on a horse did it. And my dad was real hot-tempered so he grabbed the shovel and put it
on the fender of the car and went looking for that guy. And my father’s cousin got to
Torri’s and it just so happened that there were young guys there, Johnson Shimizu, I
think the Ikedas, Mike Torr,i and anyway ,they all came over and they were going to beat
the heck out of that guy. And my mom told them that my dad went looking for him so
they waited. My dad came back and he said the boss won’t bring him out. So he came
home. My dad knew where this guy worked but the boss wouldn’t let him come out.
Now that I remember. I was about five years old. From there we moved to Hanford. My
father started a fish market. And every morning he would load up two boxes of fish in an
insulated box in the back of his pickup. And he’d make the routes and 99% of his
customers were Portuguese. And my mother, not knowing English, she took care of the
store and on Saturdays, my dad would take that fish box off the pickup, wash everything
and many times we would go to my grandmother’s farm in Clovis. When the war broke
out, he tried to get his mother to come to Hanford or we’d go to her farm and the
relocation said the authorities wouldn’t allow it. And my father knew a lawyer in Fresno
named John Phillips. He came over and got mad at my dad for letting his mother go to a
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TSUTSUI
different camp. And he said he tried. And Mr. Phillips said you wait here ,and the WRA
office was only about a half block away. He came back and he said tomorrow you wave
good-bye to your friends and get on the bus and you drive to your mother’s place. And
my dad had that pickup and he had a car so my older brother must have drove one of
them and I think he was only fourteen.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
And no driver’s license.
RK:
Right.
TT:
From there my younger sister and I went to Polaski’s School and I think that building is
still standing. It was a one-room school with eight grades in there.
RK:
Okay, K-eight, eighth grade.
TT:
And there was a kid riding a horse to school wearing Levi’s and western shirt and
cowboy hat and one day that kid said something to me and I guess from my younger days
I was always hot tempered so I beat him up. The others came up to me and said, “Why
did you fight a girl?” I said, “That was no girl.” So you watch and see what restroom she
goes to. She went to the girls’ restroom and she was riding a horse and dressed like a boy
and hair cut like a boy.
RK:
Real short, yeah.
TT:
So I had to go and apologize to her. And then after school, my sister and I had to walk a
couple of miles to my grandmother’s farm. And there was two Caucasian boys and a girl.
They were brother and sister and they would tease us, throw rocks at us so we would
throw rocks back at them and we were more accurate so they were running away from us.
And then we went to camp.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Now before you went to camp, was this school outside of Hanford or in the city?
TT:
No, Clovis.
RK:
Oh, this is in Clovis, okay. And then so you didn’t go to all eighth grade, you went to
camp during what grade?
TT:
Fifth grade.
RK:
Okay, fifth grade and which camp did you go to?
TT:
Poston, Poston Two. All the other Hanford went to Fresno Assembly Center.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And we went direct to Poston.
RK:
Now do you remember what the exact time when Pearl Harbor was bombed, December 7,
1941?
TT:
Well, I was told that Pearl Harbor was bombed.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I never knew there was a Pearl Harbor.
RK:
Okay, and were you at school when this happened or were you at home?
TT:
I think I was at home. My older brother had a radio and he heard it on the radio.
RK:
Oh okay, a lot of people (chimes ringing), okay, so now you had the news of Pearl
Harbor but you still continued to go to school, right?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
And were there any animosities or feelings from the rest of the people?
TT:
The school I went to was on the other side of the tracks.
RK:
Okay.
6
TT:
TSUTSUI
So most of the kids were Mexicans or African-Americans. Very few Japanese and very
few Caucasians so we had no problems.
RK:
Okay, now before you went to Poston, did you have to go to assembly center?
TT:
No. We went to my mother—my grandmother’s farm.
RK:
Okay, and then they drove the cars over?
TT:
Well, we had to get on a train.
RK:
Train, okay.
TT:
In Clovis that took us to Parker, Arizona, and from Parker, busses took us into camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
We go off the bus and they handed us a pill and told us to drink it, and so with water we
drank it and I asked my father what that was and he said salt pill. I said, “Why salt pill?”
Well, yesterday, people from Salinas came in and Salinas’ temperature is around sixty
degrees.
RK:
Right, because it’s on the coast there.
TT:
And Parker and Poston was about a hundred and fifteen. So a lot of them collapsed.
RK:
Yeah, they fainted because it was so hot.
TT:
And being from San Joaquin Valley we are around a hundred so that heat didn’t bother
us. We didn’t need the salt pills.
RK:
Now when you were going on the train, I know most Japanese, they just had only a few
items they could carry and then they had to wear a tag. Is that the same situation as
yours?
TT:
I don’t know about the tag but it was what we could carry.
RK:
Carry, okay. And which camp in Poston there were three camps.
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TSUTSUI
TT:
Two.
RK:
Oh, Camp Two, and then when you got there, do you recall any of the buildings, how the
buildings were made and constructed and were they hot inside and cold during the
winter?
TT:
Well, it was 1x12” redwood siding and they had a double roof and black, what do you
call that?
RK:
Tar, tar paper?
TT:
Yeah, black on the sides and on top and it was hot, and then the floor, the cracks were
half- inch or three-quarters of an inch, when the wind blew, you couldn’t see the next
barracks but you ran into your own barracks and went inside but you couldn’t see in there
because the dust was from the floor.
RK:
Yeah, there was cracks in the floor, yeah.
TT:
Later, the government gave linoleum and everybody had the same color so they tacked
those down and the government gave heavy paper that they put on the inside walls so
inside the dust wasn’t too bad and they had gardeners for the blocks. My uncle and my
father’s uncle, they were the gardeners for our block. They would plant vegetables
between the barracks and that kept the dust down.
RK:
The dust down, yeah.
TT:
Then later, the older people would go out in the woods and first there was a slough and
they would cut cottonwood limbs or willow and bring them back and plant them around
the barracks so we got shade. And they had big piles of scrap lumber so with that scrap
lumber, they gave us canvas cot beds that tore within six months. Then they gave us
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TSUTSUI
mattress but I heard they were GI mattress so the men made bed frames out of scrap
lumber and put the mattress on there, which is a lot better than cots.
RK:
Exactly.
TT:
And then the men went out and cut poles out of trees and brought them back and put
those along one side and up the other and back and then put some poles on top and then
with the scrap lumber they made shade so under there, was a gathering place and we had
shade there.
RK:
Yeah, because you are basically right along the Colorado River and inland a little ways
and there was probably not many big trees, right? (sneeze)
TT:
Well, they built our camp in a mesquite forest.
RK:
Oh, okay. Now can you describe the room now? Was it a single room with the entire
family in one room?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And so you had your two brothers and sister and plus your parents in that?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
What about grandparents?
TT:
My grandmother and my cousin and my uncle were in the next apartment.
RK:
Oh, okay, so they did have a separate room, okay. Now in that room, did you put up
partitions for privacy? Any walls or anything or kept it a single room?
TT:
My dad bought cloth and my mom sewed it together and they strung it up from the
ceiling and made rooms out of that.
RK:
Okay, yeah, I understood a lot of Japanese did that. Now the restrooms and showers,
were they in a different building and how far did you have to go?
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TT:
TSUTSUI
Oh, I would say to the men’s restroom and shower from our barrack, it couldn’t have
been a little over a hundred feet. And then some men made partitions between the
commodes.
RK:
Right, because it was all open, I understand.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
The—
TT:
And then they made a bench and some hooks where you could put your clothes while you
take a shower. And in the winter when it rained, that dirt would stick to your shoes real
bad. It was kind of—
RK:
Clay, right, wasn’t it?
TT:
Clay.
RK:
Clay, oh, it was pretty muddy, I bet.
TT:
So the men all got together and went to that scrap pile and they made wooden walks from
each barracks to the latrines, the laundry room and to the kitchen so we didn’t have to
walk through the mud. (cough) When we first got there, my dad was the head sumo
instructor. And government said something about them so he got on a crew making
charcoal and from there he worked in the slaughterhouse and they had their own hog
farm. And one morning somebody had parked a caterpillar in there and they had to move
it and my father being the only farmer, went to move it, and you had to crank it and he
knew that when you crank a tractor, you hold a crank this way. But he held it this way
and when it backfired, the crank came back and broke his arm.
RK:
Oh, wow, yeah.
TT:
And so while he was in a cast, our block manager left so they made him block manager.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Now was there a hospital nearby so he could get his arm fixed easily.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay, now was there any communications between Camp Two and Camp One and Camp
Three?
TT:
I think so.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
There was, we called it a bus, but it was a flatbed truck with a side railings on it.
RK:
And go between the camps.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Oh, so you could see some people in the other camps. So do you remember any of the
barbed wire or guard towers or you are in fifth grade right at this time?
TT:
There was no guard towers, and the only barbed wire fence I saw was in the woods to
keep the wild horses away from camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And one time, P-38 landed or belly flopped and landed outside our camp and there was I
think three or four strands of barbed wire on that side but we are out in the desert, if you
went east there were foothills and mountains and if you went west, there was the
Colorado River.
RK:
River, right.
TT:
So, some of the older men used to hike to the mountains to go get greasewood to make
canes and ironwood and they would make canes, cigarette holders and chopsticks, and us
young people, we would go hike up there, too. And then when got to know how to get to
the Colorado River, I’d go to the mess hall and tell them how many days I would be gone
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TSUTSUI
and my friends would go there and they would tell them how many days they’d be gone
and they’d give us food. And we’d hike to the river. At first we all carried a gallon of
water. Well later, we just carried one gallon of water among us because we drank the
river water later.
RK:
Right.
TT:
And I was about eleven and cooked our rice in an open one-gallon can and a wire handle
on it and fire going up the sides but we never burned the rice.
RK:
That’s pretty good.
TT:
And I forget what we got to cook but one day back at the barracks (cuckoo clock chirps)
they had those electric hot plates and I decided I was going to cook rice and about that
much on the bottom was black.
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
I did better with open flame.
RK:
Open flame, yeah. Now they had a mess hall. How was the food there? Was it prepared
by the internees?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And was it sufficient, do you think? Can you recall the food situation?
TT:
I, on the whole, I think it was all right.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And they had two shifts of cooks and cook’s helpers so my mom was a cook’s helper and
she would work every other day and you had to go there early in the morning. One
morning when she was just about to open the door, she heard a scream outside so she
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TSUTSUI
peeked outside and the neighbor was one of the cooks and he was on the ground holding
his head. A mountain lion had clawed him.
RK:
Oh gee. Did he survive?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Yeah, okay. Now with the schools, did you go straight into a fifth grade school in
Poston?
TT:
Into sixth grade.
RK:
Into sixth grade, okay.
TT:
And our classrooms were one block of empty barracks so but they were building a
school, my father’s cousin worked on it. They made adobe block and built the school
with adobe.
RK:
Oh, yeah, that is a better material.
TT:
Yeah, so it didn’t get as hot in the summer or get as cold in the winter.
RK:
Yeah, exactly, that was smart. (chimes ringing)
TT:
They built a high school and a grammar school there. And my brother was a senior the
last year we were there. And he had a government pickup with him twenty-four hours a
day. He was the head refrigeration man. When they had trouble, he had to go to the
block and fix the refrigerator. He was working with another man learning it and the other
man left camp. So my brother had to take over.
RK:
Now do you recall the year that you actually went to the camp? Was it in 1942 or?
TT:
‘42.
RK:
And so how long were you at the camp?
TT:
We came out in ‘45.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, so three years.
TT:
Two or three years.
RK:
So you never got to the high school. You were in eighth grade when you came out?
TT:
I graduated in eighth grade in camp.
RK:
Okay. (cough) Your older brother and sister, they went to part of the high school, I
guess?
TT:
My older brother did. My older sister had a health problem. She couldn’t speak so she
never went to school.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So whatever we said in English or Japanese, she understood.
RK:
Now how was the education? The teachers at the camp, were they Japanese or some of
the Japanese?
TT:
Some were Japanese and some were Caucasian.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And being twelve and thirteen years old, we thought the Caucasians were dumb for
coming out into the hot desert.
RK:
Right.
TT:
But actually they were dedicated people. They cared about us.
RK:
That’s good. Now also what was the interaction between you and the military at the
camp? Were they friendly?
TT:
I was too young but my cousin lived in the next apartment to ours. He was one of the
first five or six that volunteered out of our camp.
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RK:
TSUTSUI
Oh, for military service? Okay. Now when they had that choosing of the loyalty oath,
you were too young to?
TT:
I didn’t even see it.
RK:
I think that was for anyone over eighteen, eighteen and older, I think. Now, what other
activities especially a person when you were like you said in middle school, did you do
during the day when school was out? Were there things to do?
TT:
Well, we used to go fishing. A friend and I used to go golfing. Some people made a
nine-hole golf out in the mesquite—
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
For us and we did a lot of fishing. My friend’s folks used to dry that fish.
RK:
What kinds of fish did you catch out of the river?
TT:
Crappy, sunfish.
RK:
Any bass in there?
TT:
Black bass.
RK:
Black bass, yeah.
TT:
Catfish, Mr. Masuda that used to own Yosemite Nursery.
RK:
Uh-huh.
TT:
He was in our block. And he made a block pond.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And my uncle caught the second largest catfish of the three camps and that catfish was in
that pond.
RK:
Okay, good.
TT:
And they had carps in there.
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RK:
TSUTSUI
Right. Yeah, a lot of the camps, they made fish ponds and different things for decoration.
So you stocked it with the fish you caught so that was pretty good. Now as you were, it
was nearing 1945 and people started leaving camp. Were you among the first to leave or
among the last to leave the camp?
TT:
I guess we were in the middle somewhere.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
My dad was block manager so out of our block, I guess we were one of the later ones.
He was supposed to inspect the crates that they crated their belongings out in and make
sure they weren’t taking any government things. If everything was okay, then he signed
it off.
RK:
Okay. Now did they have busses to pick them up?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And the reverse process, they went to Parker and they caught the train back?
TT:
Uh-huh.
RK:
Okay, now a lot of people didn’t have places to go I guess.
TT:
Well, my father, his best friend who later married my cousin and a man named Kenny
Taniguchi from Fowler, they came back to California—
RK:
Okay.
TT:
For a seven-day visit and my dad told him to bring my cousin’s car back, the ‘38 Ford.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So my dad told him to check the fish market building to make sure that everything was
okay. The landlord came there and told him to get out of town. If I see you here again, I
am going to shoot you with the shotgun.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
So they told that to my dad and then we came out on short term, seven days. And my dad
and my older brother and a man named Jack Yagura, and when we got to the—we left
Jack Yagura off in Fresno. And went to the fish store, this landlord came out and my dad
says, “Where is your shotgun? Go get the shotgun and I’ll wait for you.” I had my
fish- cutting knife in there and the guy never did bring the shotgun. And there was this
Kenny Taniguchi’s father was already back in Fowler, the other farm.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And he had a truck so helped us haul everybody’s belongings out and ship it to him
where they were and then my dad had this fish market business. He had a safe and it
must have been about thirty-six-inch high and about that square. And I remember my
dad, Mr. Taniguchi, my brother and myself, they told me to get on top. They tied a rope
around that safe and put planks and they were pushing it and they got almost to the top
when it got away from them. And I slide all the way across that truck bed and because I
only weighed about a hundred and fifteen pounds. But we got it over to Mr. Taniguchi’s
place and my dad gave it to him. Then when we came out of camp for good, this Joe
Tsutsui and my dad worked for Foster Viera and we shared a home. Joe’s older brother
Kay worked for Joe Viera, a brother, and then Mr. Sakaguchi, he worked for mother
Viera. They were all Vieras and the Japanese worked for them and he had a truck and a
trailer that they used to haul prisoners of war. Well later, my dad was driving and
Japanese would get on there and go from field to field.
RK:
Now this was in Hanford, right?
TT:
Hanford.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Then people started coming out of camp so my dad would let them use his car so they can
find some transportation. I guess most of the time he was helping them financially. And
then a man named Ida found a job with Peloian in Reedley and he told my dad why don’t
you come and work for Peloian? He has a thousand-acre vineyard in Selma. So my dad
got the job and then all these Japanese people that he stored their furniture and
everything, one by one they came to work for him over there.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And they gradually, they went back to San Pedro, Long Beach. That is where they were
originally from. When the war broke out, they were living in Terminal Island and they
had to get out of there because the Navy made a navy base there.
RK:
Right, right.
TT:
My dad’s best friend had a Dodge ten-wheeler and a Ford Bobtail and he had two Italian
brothers driving it and my dad paid them the wages to go get their belongings. And there
was a Japanese family named Yoshida I think, or Ishida, had a boarding house and it was
empty and my dad rented that for all those people and he bought their groceries until they
went to camp.
RK:
That’s amazing. Now when you left the camp, did you dad have a car to drive back or
did he take the train?
TT:
He drove back.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
My mom, my grandmother, my younger sister, my older sister, and my younger brother.
My father’s cousin and my cousin’s wife, we rode the train back.
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RK:
TSUTSUI
Okay, how long was that trip, do you recall? It was pretty hot probably on the train
because you had to go through the desert.
TT:
Well, we left in the morning and about six o’clock we were in Hanford.
RK:
Yeah.
TT:
It was faster coming out than going in.
RK:
Oh.
TT:
When we went into camp, our train had to stop many times and pull the blind down
because military—
RK:
Oh, military bases you went by, I bet.
TT:
No military train would come by.
RK:
Oh, okay. They didn’t want you to see certain things. Yeah, I know on the way to
Parker, you cross a couple of military bases going to that area so that is probably another
reason they had you close the blind. Now when you came back you were—went to
school now in the high school, right? The Hanford High School, was it?
TT:
My freshman year.
RK:
Okay, and did you have any problems with the other students there? Name calling or any
prejudice?
TT:
Only one.
RK:
Only one, that is amazing.
TT:
And that was in the metal shop and that metal shop was divided into two rooms. And the
one room had the forges that used coke to fire and we were fighting in there and Ken
Devaney seen us so he poured water on that coke and cranked it up so the teacher didn’t
know what was going on in there.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
But later we became pretty good friends.
RK:
Now how were the teachers? Were they all pretty good in the—
TT:
Just one. I guess he was a good teacher but he would always say Jap.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So I dropped out of his class.
RK:
Now did you go out for sports or any activities at Hanford?
TT:
No.
RK:
Now, did they have any clubs or things that you did or did you just go straight home after
school?
TT:
Went straight home, rode the bus.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then after one year, we moved to Selma. (chimes ringing)
RK:
Oh, okay, so you were only one year at Hanford?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
I’m going to pause. Wel,l it’s too late. I was going to pause it because of the bell but—
Okay, so when you moved to Selma now, did you go to Selma High School?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
Okay, and then how was the situation there at Selma?
TT:
Well—
RK:
Were there a lot more Japanese at Selma than—?
TT:
A lot more Japanese at Selma and no problem as far as race went.
RK:
Okay, and did you participate in any activities at Selma High School?
20
TT:
TSUTSUI
Well, everything was Buddhist kids or Christian kids. So I went around talking to
different people and I said, “Let’s start a club that race is not a barrier.” So they all
agreed. So first, we started what was called the Selma Youth Club—no, Selma Sports
Club. And it was all boys and then we decided we wanted to have some girls join us. So
we put on a talent show right here at the Kingsburg Buddhist Church and invited all the
girls to watch us and they joined.
RK:
Oh, that’s great. So how many people were in the club, do you estimate?
TT:
Between twenty and thirty.
RK:
Oh, that’s good. That’s a good-sized club back then.
TT:
And we used to hold dances and the Junior YBA from Fresno would come, Reedley,
Kingsburg and Sanger I think, and whenever we held a dance, it was good size.
RK:
Now did your parents—were them members of the Buddhist Church in Kingsburg?
TT:
No, they were Christians.
RK:
Oh, Christians. Okay.
TT:
And they belonged to the Harlan Memorial Chapter in Hanford.
RK:
Oh, okay. So when they moved to Selma, they still went to church in Hanford?
TT:
And I went to Sunday school Sunday mornings and the minister had two sons and three
daughters. One Sunday, we came out and there was a man named Mac Hasei and he was
about ten years older than us and the younger son of the minister used to lift barbells.
And the barbells were sitting on the side there and Mac said, “Let’s see you lift that?”
And he said, “I know you could do it because they used to call you toughie.” So he
struggled to bring it up to here and he really struggled to get it up over his head. And
then he said, “Let’s see you do it, Tak?” I said, “I don’t feel like doing it.” He said,
21
TSUTSUI
“You can’t do it?” I said, “I know I could do it but I don’t feel like doing it.” “You can’t
do it?” I said, “I know I could do it.” “You are chicken.” So I walked up to it, bent
down and grabbed it with my right arm from the ground and I brought it all the way up, a
hundred and five pounds.
RK:
Yeah.
TT:
They didn’t know I was that strong. So I used to lift weights before.
RK:
Okay, now did you do any judo or any activities like that outside of the school?
TT:
My wife taught sewing in 4H and after one year she said Tak why don’t you sign up for
something and that way you can get involved with your own kids. So I signed up to be a
tractor safety teacher. But before I had my first meeting, I had a stroke.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And most of the people thought I would drop out but I had my first meeting in my
pajamas and slippers.
RK:
Oh, great at least you showed up, yeah.
TT:
And everyone went along. My oldest daughter said, “Dad, we want to do a community
service.” I said, “Fine.” And she said, “We don’t want to go to the city park and rake
their leaves. We don’t want to go to the city park and pull weeds out of the flower beds.
We don’t want to go to homes and sing songs for the older people.” I said, “Well what
do you want to do?” She said, “You pick something.” And I remembered that there was
a place on Belmont and Brawley. I forget the name of it. But it was an old grammar
school so I drove over there and the husband and wife were taking care of the place. I
asked the wife, I said, “Can I take all these children from my place and give them a
hayride and a barbequed hamburger sandwich dinner?” And she said, “Oh, that would be
22
TSUTSUI
fine, but can you do it in May?” She said, “Now during the holidays, the Boy Scouts and
everyone wants to do something but later, they forget.” So I said, “Okay.” I went home
and called the parents of the students in my class, with myself, there were seven families,
and I told them what I wanted to do and asked them if they would help transportation and
financially and they all agreed. And then I told them to bring your whole family and we
will all eat together. That went over real good. After they left, I said to my wife, I bit off
more than I could chew. And she said, “What do you mean?” I said, “There is going to
be about seventy people here and all we have is a little barbeque grill.” She said, “Oh,
you will figure something.” After I thought for a couple days I had my younger brother
take me to a scrap iron place in Hanford. I would point to the iron and he would load it.
I came home and when my father was over, I’d have him help me measure it and then I’d
cut it with a torch and he would hold it into place by spot welding.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I could only weld about ten minutes, I’d get tired and go in and rest for two hours. It
took me six weeks to make.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
I still have that barbeque.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
It’s in the back. It is six feet two inches long and nineteen inches wide.
RK:
So you are able to get everyone and all the meat cooked, yeah. That worked out fine.
Now I’m going to go back a little ways in time here. In high school did you ever go to
like a Japanese language school, nihongakko?
TT:
No.
23
TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay. So you didn’t do any much activity outside of the school? Did you work?
TT:
I worked.
RK:
On the farm?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay. And what happened after high school? After you graduated, what did you do?
TT:
Worked on the farm.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
My dad was a foreman on that ranch. I was going to school every day I had to feed six
horses.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And then work on weekends. So in my sophomore year, I had my own car and I was
probably the only one that had his own car.
RK:
That’s good. Yeah, now what were the horses used for?
TT:
On the farm.
RK:
They were to pull the plows?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
That was before they had a lot of tractors, I guess?
TT:
They had some tractors there, but they used the horses and mules.
RK:
Now how long after you graduated did you meet your wife?
TT:
I think.
RK:
Because you graduated what?
TT:
‘49.
RK:
’49, yeah.
24
TSUTSUI
TT:
In 1950 my brother and I bought a 1950 Ford.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Brand new one. In 1951, five of my friends wanted me to go to the Sequoia retreat at
Lake Sequoia.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
The young Japanese Christians would have a one-week retreat up there.
RK:
Right. They have a YMCA Camp up there.
TT:
Yeah, and they didn’t have a car to go up so they asked me if I would take them. And I
asked my dad and he said if you get all the furrows in the cotton, then you can go because
that would be the last furrows of the year.
RK:
Right.
TT:
And I carried five gallon extra gas with me and started earlier than normal so the gas
would last until noon and go back carrying extra five gallons so I could work later and I
finished it so my dad said, “Okay.” So five of my friends and myself, we went to the
Sequoia retreat. And that’s where I met my wife.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I tell people that she thought all the boys that went to a Christian camp were nice
boys, and after we were married, she found out that wasn’t true, but I tell her I was
fooled, too. (laughs)
RK:
So after you met her, how much longer before you decided to get married?
TT:
That was ‘51 and we got married in ‘53.
RK:
Oh, okay. Now was she from the local area?
TT:
Central High School area.
25
TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, and what was her maiden name?
TT:
Tanaka.
RK:
Tanaka, okay. And once you got married, how long was it before you started having
children?
TT:
First year.
RK:
Okay, and so that was a daughter?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay and so, total how many children do you have?
TT:
Three daughters and one son.
RK:
Okay, and how are they doing currently? (cuckoo clock chirping) First of all, they all
went to Selma High School?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And graduated and did they all go on to college?
TT:
They went to Reedley.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then to Fresno State, except my son. He went to chiropractic school.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And my oldest daughter married a boy of German descent. And when he said he wanted
to marry my daughter, I asked him what happened the last time the Germans and
Japanese got together?
RK:
Right.
TT:
He said, yeah, we lost the war. But he said look at West Germany and Japan financially
today. This is thirty years ago.
26
TSUTSUI
RK:
Right.
TT:
He was going to school to be a history teacher and my daughter was going to school to be
a home economics teacher. So they, my daughter is Vice-President and Senior Auditor
for Kings River Independent Bank. And he’s a finance manager of something for Federal
Land Bank. They gave me a new car the other day but they won’t lend me a dime.
RK:
Now what about your other kids?
TT:
My second daughter married a boy of German descent and they are going to get married
in ‘78. So November of ‘78 I went and bought a new four-door Oldsmobile 88 and they
got married that summer so they could take that car on their honeymoon.
RK:
Oh, that was good.
TT:
My third daughter got married right here. She didn’t want a church wedding so they got
married here and we had the reception out in back. And I had this cup. (chimes ringing)
RK:
Okay, as you were saying before we were interrupted? She got married right here.
TT:
And she wanted the reception in the back. And my wife’s boss was invited, and earlier
my second daughter and her husband had given me a cup and it said, “The Greatest
Grandpa.” And all kinds of stuff like that on there, so I was drinking coffee and going
around talking to people and my wife’s boss is a grandpa and he said, “You think you are
the best grandpa?” I said, “No, someone else does.” So he couldn’t say anything.
RK:
Right, that was a good answer.
TT:
And then my son got married in a church in Hanford. The second daughter has my oldest
grandchild.
RK:
Oh, okay.
27
TT:
TSUTSUI
And when my granddaughter was born, my daughter lost quite a bit of blood. They
wanted to give her a transfusion and she asked the doctor if she would make it without it.
And he said yeah. So they came here from the hospital and lived here about three weeks
until my daughter gained enough strength. So that picture up there is of myself giving a
bottle to my granddaughter. And the unique thing about that, they gave me this picture
last year. One side, neither my granddaughter or myself are smiling, the other side, we
were both smiling. So last month I asked my granddaughter, when it’s time to put me in
that casket, make sure you put that picture in with me.
RK:
Okay, we’ll go over to the picture there and get a shot of it. There you are holding your
granddaughter. All right. That is amazing. That is quite a story. And then your other
kids? Are they all married?
TT:
All married.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And my son had eight and my second daughter, the other two don’t have any children so
my immediate family is nineteen.
RK:
Wow, that’s good.
TT:
Counting my wife and I.
RK:
So when you get together there is quite a few people at the house.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Now when 1988 came around and they had the redress with the letter of apology from the
President, what was your reaction when it finally came through?
TT:
I don’t remember. I don’t think I had much of a reaction.
28
RK:
TSUTSUI
Because it took years to go through the process of trying to get it so you already knew
that people were working on it. But I guess at the moment it passed, there’s a law, the
Civil Liberties Act, you probably didn’t have much emotion to it at the time.
TT:
No, because both my wife and I put our $20,000 into paying for this house.
RK:
Oh, okay. So at least it went to good use, yeah. Because a lot of the Japanese lost quite a
bit more than what that amount was.
TT:
Wel,l my father lost eighty acres of vineyards.
RK:
Exactly. Now when you were farming, what were the main crops? Was it just grapes
or—
TT:
Grapes.
RK:
Or were there other crops?
TT:
No, grapes.
RK:
Okay. And they were mainly, for raisins?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay. Because this Kingsburg area is one of the main raisin-growing areas, Kingsburg
and Selma, in the nation so most of the farmers had, Thompsons, a, grew Thompson
grapes for raisins. And a, what’s your present situation now? Are you retired or do you
still farm a little bit?
TT:
I had a stroke in 1996.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And that’s why it took me so long to build that barbeque, I was paralyzed on one side.
And at that time, I was a foreman for some Hindu people, 200 acres—
RK:
Okay.
29
TT:
TSUTSUI
And I told them I would leave so they could hire someone else. They wouldn’t let me
leave.
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
So I was there till 1980.
RK:
Now where this house is sitting, do you own any farmland around this house?
TT:
Yeah. The younger brother and I, we own twenty acres.
RK:
Okay. And so, he still farms the—
TT:
Twenty acres.
RK:
The twenty acres, okay.
TT:
He took over being foreman at Peloian’s after my dad died, then he retired from that and
takes care of this place.
RK:
Okay, looking back at having to go in camp and those 3-4 years that you lost and having
to come back, do you see any changes that it did to your life? I know that being away
from this area had to be a dramatic effect on everyone’s lives. How did you cope with
having to go through that and then coming back and restarting your life, basically is what
everyone did?
TT:
Well, we had fun in camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
When we first came out of camp, I asked my dad what he thought of the government
putting us into camp.
RK:
Uh-huh.
TT:
He said, “The best vacation I ever had.”
RK:
(laughs) Okay.
30
TT:
TSUTSUI
And I thought that was an odd answer. He was a foreman for Peloian Ranches from 1945
till 1985 when he died. He was never away from that farm for more than three days at
one time.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
So he never had—
RK:
Vacation. Exactly. Yeah.
TT:
But when I first started working, he said to me no matter who you work for, work like
you own it.
RK:
Uh-huh. Yeah, I think that’s part of the Japanese culture is, you always try to do your
best and always work hard and things will be okay. A, you know, you don’t slack off and
give, you know, a second-rate effort, you are going to work hard and do the best you can
and a, and that hard work always comes out to help you out. I’m sure that happens in
school, in work, and in everyday life and so I think that’s the story of the Japanese. I
think they all pulled through out of the hardships of the camp, coming back and then
redoing their whole life and they were able to succeed. ‘Cause most of the Japanese
today are fairly successful and they had to do it, otherwise they couldn’t survive.
TT:
When my son was in grammar school, he started taking judo at age ten, and at first he
was losing all his tournaments, and he said “Mr. Kawano say to perfect my technique,
don’t worry about the wins, the wins will come later.” And later, he starts winning. And
this, he applied this to his school work. Do your studies and your grades are going to
come. He’s a lifetime membership with the, what do you call it?
RK:
Oh. The California Scholarship Federation.
TT:
Yeah.
31
RK:
TSUTSUI
Yeah, having that work ethic was good because yeah, you work at it and work and
everyone will come.
TT:
Uh-huh.
RK:
So it takes a lot of discipline and I think that’s also very important. If you have that
discipline to stick with it and work hard, things will come out, usually for the better. So,
a, you were mentioning he was pretty good in judo, what rank did he end up?
TT:
He was 4th degree.
RK:
4th degree black belt. Yeah. So now he could be an instructor if he wanted to.
TT:
Well, he head instructor for Fresno and he helps out in Fowler on Wednesdays and
Sundays. Fresno is Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sunday mornings. So he spends a lot of
time with judo. His oldest daughter just got back Saturday from Japan. She said she had
three wins and two losses. And that’s pretty good, going to Japan and—
RK:
Oh, exactly, and so she’s also into judo?
TT:
Uh-huh. Two years ago, she took—or three years ago she took second in the state
tournament and last year and this year, she took third in the state tournament. That’s still
pretty good.
RK:
Yeah. That’s real good. Now in your later years here, have you joined any JapaneseAmerican organizations in the community?
TT:
JACL. In fact last year the Selma JACL honored me at the dinner.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then I got a plaque up there from Central California Judo Black Belt Association, a
plaque from East Fresno Kiwanis.
RK:
Uh-huh. So you also took judo when you were—?
32
TSUTSUI
TT:
No. I just help out.
RK:
Oh helping out. Oh good, community work, yeah.
TT:
So I have a third degree honorary.
RK:
Honorary, that’s excellent!
TT:
And I was given a certificate of appreciation from California VFW and I’m not even in
the VFW. I got a letter—they wanted me to go to Lemoore Air Base but I couldn’t go
because that’s the day my daughter got married.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And my older brother couldn’t go either, he was going to be here so another man went.
And he said how did you get this? I said I don’t know. He said none of us in the VFW
ever got something like this. And I said I don’t know.
RK:
Well, it’s your help to the community and they appreciate it so that’s good.
TT:
I got a five-year certificate from the Fresno County 4H.
RK:
Uh-huh. Now if you could imagine that there were, there was no World War II—you
think your life—it’s kind of hard to imagine what your life would’ve been like, but a, you
have any ideas you ever thought that if this interruption never happened, that your life
would’ve been a little bit better or would’ve been the same?
TT:
Well, I don’t know. I would probably be selling fish.
RK:
Oh, okay. (laughs)
TT:
I was in the fifth grade. Every morning before I went to school, I had to call the
telegraph office (chimes ringing) and make a fish order for the next morning. My brother
was in the eighth grade but my dad had me do it. All my life, when he wanted
something, he asked me. So I think I would have taken over his business.
33
TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, okay. And that sounded like a very successful business, the fish business.
TT:
It was for him.
RK:
Yeah, was there a lot of competition at that time or was he the only one in the—
TT:
There was one other Japanese fish market in Hanford.
RK:
Oh, so that’s good. Yeah. That would have been very successful. (laughs)
TT:
When my father first came from Japan, he ran around with American Indians so he
knows how to speak American Indian, he knows how to speak quite a bit of Spanish.
99% of his customers were Portuguese (cough) so he could speak Portuguese plus
English and Japanese.
RK:
Now, just thinking back with what the Niseis went through—Nisei, the second generation
Japanese-Americans—what do you think were their greatest contribution to the
community and future generations—going through the internment camp and some of
them going into the military service and a, coming through that and being successful
today, what did they show us?
TT:
I think they showed that no matter how tough things get, you flow with the side. Don’t
fight it. And you’ll come out on dry ground. I think that’s one of the biggest thing that
the Japanese did. They didn’t fight it. They just went along with what they were told.
RK:
Okay. What do you feel was some of your greatest accomplishments with your life that
you thought was very successful?
TT:
Probably being married to my wife for fifty-two years, having children and
grandchildren.
RK:
Now that’s very good. If you can stay married that long, I know a lot of marriages don’t
even last but a few years nowadays. But that’s, over fifty years is an accomplishment.
34
TSUTSUI
And then all your children are very successful and so, having kids that are successful—
that’s also a very good accomplishment. And anything else?
TT:
A friend asked me how we managed to stay together so long. And I said my wife says
she’ll never leave me. He says why. She says she doesn’t want to see me happy.
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
But a couple of years ago she says maybe she’ll leave me so she could be happy.
RK:
(laughing) Yeah, I think she was just kidding. That’s amazing. If you were giving
advice to young people today, what would you tell them? The, you know, the new
generation of people.
TT:
I would tell them to respect their elders, to respect the law, to respect their teachers—and
whatever they do, do it the best they can.
RK:
Exactly. Yep. Okay, we are nearing the end of this interview. A, do you have anything
else you want to say?
TT:
Umm, not really.
RK:
I think we covered quite a few, quite a bit of the history here and a, I want to thank you
for doing this interview because your information and those of others who we interview
will be very important to researchers in the future generations who want to look back at
the way the Japanese-Americans went through this hardship of the 1940s and turned it
around and today in the year, the century of 2000 we’re, for the most part, pretty
successful people. And a, the important thing is how were the Japanese-Americans able
to persevere all through this trials and tribulations and some of your stories is important
to letting us know how you were able to accomplish that and get through the hardships
because it’s (ahem) almost seems amazing that a group of people here, 120,000 people
35
TSUTSUI
that were in the camps were able to come through that and make it through and a, most of
them came out of the camp and a, were able to basically come above all that, and become
successful. And a, so I appreciate you agreeing to do an oral interview with us.
TT:
I told my wife the reason why I agreed it said something about to be put into the Fresno
State library?
RK:
Right. This is going to be in the Asian Studies, Special Collections.
TT:
Well, I hope my grandchildren will benefit from this.
RK:
Oh, sure. All the future generations will benefit.
TT:
My oldest one works at the library in Fresno State.
RK:
Oh, okay that’s good.
TT:
She goes to Fresno State. And I don’t know how many hours a week she works there, but
even through the summers, she’s working there. (partly overlap)
RK:
Okay, yeah. It’s going to be housed, the library right now is being renovated and so
they’re doing a remodeling but a, it’s going to look real nice and the Special
Collections—It’s the Sanoian Special Collections and Historical Archives there is housed
on the 4th floor, and the head of the unit is Tammy Lau, and so we been doing this oral
history program in cooperation with her and the Asian Studies program there, so it’s
going to be a fine collection with all these different people that we interviewed so the
people in the future will get all this information which would have been lost if you didn’t
do it because the stories of the people that actually experienced this are very important
and sometimes they get passed on to their grandkids, but a lot of them never make it out
of the family and so people on the outside never hear of all the hardships that the people
36
TSUTSUI
had to endure—some people had fun in the camps, other people didn’t like the camps and
so we’re getting all the different stories of how it was and that’s very important.
TT:
This granddaughter that’s going to Fresno State, one day she says to me, “I’m more
Japanese than I am German.” I said, “How do you know?” She says, “I’d rather eat
mochi than eat chocolate.”
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
Her father is of German descent.
RK:
Right. Okay, so Takashi Tsutsui, I thank you very much.
TT:
You’re welcome.
END OF INTERVIEW
TAKASHI TSUTSUI
INTERVIEWER:
RALPH KUMANO
DATE:
July 28, 2005
RK:
We are in Kingsburg, Californi,a on July 28, 2005, at the home of Takashi Tsutsui, a
Nisei man who is seventy-three years of age. This interview will be part of the Izumi
Taniguchi Oral History Program housed in the Special Collection unit of the Henry
Madden Library at California State University of Fresno. My name is Ralph Kumano of
the Central California District Council, which is part of the Japanese-American Citizens
League. Okay, Takashi, we are going to start with life before WWII and one of the
questions will be of the family and the home life. Where were you born?
TT:
Fresno.
RK:
Okay, and on what date?
TT:
January 21, 1932.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And at that time there was midwives so I was born in a house on Chestnut Avenue.
RK:
Okay, and what was your father’s—family’s line of work at that time in Fresno?
TT:
At that time, he was a farmer.
RK:
Okay, and your father was he an Issei?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
And he came over from Japan?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
Roughly what was the date if you can recall?
TT:
It was in 1916, I think.
2
TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, and then, was he married to your mother or did that happen after?
TT:
No, he came over to be adopted by his uncle.
RK:
Oh, okay. And then later he met your mother?
TT:
Well, he went back again to Japan and married her.
RK:
And then came back, okay. And then you were born, okay. How many brothers and
sisters did you have?
TT:
Two brothers and two sisters.
RK:
And where did you fall in the family line?
TT:
Middle.
RK:
Okay, you are right in the middle, okay. And what were the orders of the brothers and
sisters?
TT:
The oldest one was a sister named Toshiye.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Then a brother named Marvin.
RK:
Okay, and then you.
TT:
And then a sister named Tadaho and a brother named Hideo.
RK:
Okay, what do you remember of early family life when you were living in Fresno?
TT:
Well, living in Fresno, I don’t remember a thing.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
I was too young. But my father rented a farm above the Lane’s Bridge. It is not there
anymore. The Lane Bridge isn’t there. And I remember one night he was gone. His
cousin was checking a ditch for irrigation and his cousin came running to the house and
told my mother to lock the doors. There is a drunk guy on a horse. And he was dragging
3
TSUTSUI
a rope and he told my father’s cousin to peer up that rope, and he had a double barrel
shotgun across his saddle so my father’s cousin got the rope for him and he whipped it
across my father’s cousin’s face.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
And made one side bloodshot and he told my mother that he was going to go over to a
family named Torri for help. While he was gone, my dad came home and asked my mom
who threw everything out of the pump house. And my mom told him that this drunk man
on a horse did it. And my dad was real hot-tempered so he grabbed the shovel and put it
on the fender of the car and went looking for that guy. And my father’s cousin got to
Torri’s and it just so happened that there were young guys there, Johnson Shimizu, I
think the Ikedas, Mike Torr,i and anyway ,they all came over and they were going to beat
the heck out of that guy. And my mom told them that my dad went looking for him so
they waited. My dad came back and he said the boss won’t bring him out. So he came
home. My dad knew where this guy worked but the boss wouldn’t let him come out.
Now that I remember. I was about five years old. From there we moved to Hanford. My
father started a fish market. And every morning he would load up two boxes of fish in an
insulated box in the back of his pickup. And he’d make the routes and 99% of his
customers were Portuguese. And my mother, not knowing English, she took care of the
store and on Saturdays, my dad would take that fish box off the pickup, wash everything
and many times we would go to my grandmother’s farm in Clovis. When the war broke
out, he tried to get his mother to come to Hanford or we’d go to her farm and the
relocation said the authorities wouldn’t allow it. And my father knew a lawyer in Fresno
named John Phillips. He came over and got mad at my dad for letting his mother go to a
4
TSUTSUI
different camp. And he said he tried. And Mr. Phillips said you wait here ,and the WRA
office was only about a half block away. He came back and he said tomorrow you wave
good-bye to your friends and get on the bus and you drive to your mother’s place. And
my dad had that pickup and he had a car so my older brother must have drove one of
them and I think he was only fourteen.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
And no driver’s license.
RK:
Right.
TT:
From there my younger sister and I went to Polaski’s School and I think that building is
still standing. It was a one-room school with eight grades in there.
RK:
Okay, K-eight, eighth grade.
TT:
And there was a kid riding a horse to school wearing Levi’s and western shirt and
cowboy hat and one day that kid said something to me and I guess from my younger days
I was always hot tempered so I beat him up. The others came up to me and said, “Why
did you fight a girl?” I said, “That was no girl.” So you watch and see what restroom she
goes to. She went to the girls’ restroom and she was riding a horse and dressed like a boy
and hair cut like a boy.
RK:
Real short, yeah.
TT:
So I had to go and apologize to her. And then after school, my sister and I had to walk a
couple of miles to my grandmother’s farm. And there was two Caucasian boys and a girl.
They were brother and sister and they would tease us, throw rocks at us so we would
throw rocks back at them and we were more accurate so they were running away from us.
And then we went to camp.
5
TSUTSUI
RK:
Now before you went to camp, was this school outside of Hanford or in the city?
TT:
No, Clovis.
RK:
Oh, this is in Clovis, okay. And then so you didn’t go to all eighth grade, you went to
camp during what grade?
TT:
Fifth grade.
RK:
Okay, fifth grade and which camp did you go to?
TT:
Poston, Poston Two. All the other Hanford went to Fresno Assembly Center.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And we went direct to Poston.
RK:
Now do you remember what the exact time when Pearl Harbor was bombed, December 7,
1941?
TT:
Well, I was told that Pearl Harbor was bombed.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I never knew there was a Pearl Harbor.
RK:
Okay, and were you at school when this happened or were you at home?
TT:
I think I was at home. My older brother had a radio and he heard it on the radio.
RK:
Oh okay, a lot of people (chimes ringing), okay, so now you had the news of Pearl
Harbor but you still continued to go to school, right?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
And were there any animosities or feelings from the rest of the people?
TT:
The school I went to was on the other side of the tracks.
RK:
Okay.
6
TT:
TSUTSUI
So most of the kids were Mexicans or African-Americans. Very few Japanese and very
few Caucasians so we had no problems.
RK:
Okay, now before you went to Poston, did you have to go to assembly center?
TT:
No. We went to my mother—my grandmother’s farm.
RK:
Okay, and then they drove the cars over?
TT:
Well, we had to get on a train.
RK:
Train, okay.
TT:
In Clovis that took us to Parker, Arizona, and from Parker, busses took us into camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
We go off the bus and they handed us a pill and told us to drink it, and so with water we
drank it and I asked my father what that was and he said salt pill. I said, “Why salt pill?”
Well, yesterday, people from Salinas came in and Salinas’ temperature is around sixty
degrees.
RK:
Right, because it’s on the coast there.
TT:
And Parker and Poston was about a hundred and fifteen. So a lot of them collapsed.
RK:
Yeah, they fainted because it was so hot.
TT:
And being from San Joaquin Valley we are around a hundred so that heat didn’t bother
us. We didn’t need the salt pills.
RK:
Now when you were going on the train, I know most Japanese, they just had only a few
items they could carry and then they had to wear a tag. Is that the same situation as
yours?
TT:
I don’t know about the tag but it was what we could carry.
RK:
Carry, okay. And which camp in Poston there were three camps.
7
TSUTSUI
TT:
Two.
RK:
Oh, Camp Two, and then when you got there, do you recall any of the buildings, how the
buildings were made and constructed and were they hot inside and cold during the
winter?
TT:
Well, it was 1x12” redwood siding and they had a double roof and black, what do you
call that?
RK:
Tar, tar paper?
TT:
Yeah, black on the sides and on top and it was hot, and then the floor, the cracks were
half- inch or three-quarters of an inch, when the wind blew, you couldn’t see the next
barracks but you ran into your own barracks and went inside but you couldn’t see in there
because the dust was from the floor.
RK:
Yeah, there was cracks in the floor, yeah.
TT:
Later, the government gave linoleum and everybody had the same color so they tacked
those down and the government gave heavy paper that they put on the inside walls so
inside the dust wasn’t too bad and they had gardeners for the blocks. My uncle and my
father’s uncle, they were the gardeners for our block. They would plant vegetables
between the barracks and that kept the dust down.
RK:
The dust down, yeah.
TT:
Then later, the older people would go out in the woods and first there was a slough and
they would cut cottonwood limbs or willow and bring them back and plant them around
the barracks so we got shade. And they had big piles of scrap lumber so with that scrap
lumber, they gave us canvas cot beds that tore within six months. Then they gave us
8
TSUTSUI
mattress but I heard they were GI mattress so the men made bed frames out of scrap
lumber and put the mattress on there, which is a lot better than cots.
RK:
Exactly.
TT:
And then the men went out and cut poles out of trees and brought them back and put
those along one side and up the other and back and then put some poles on top and then
with the scrap lumber they made shade so under there, was a gathering place and we had
shade there.
RK:
Yeah, because you are basically right along the Colorado River and inland a little ways
and there was probably not many big trees, right? (sneeze)
TT:
Well, they built our camp in a mesquite forest.
RK:
Oh, okay. Now can you describe the room now? Was it a single room with the entire
family in one room?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And so you had your two brothers and sister and plus your parents in that?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
What about grandparents?
TT:
My grandmother and my cousin and my uncle were in the next apartment.
RK:
Oh, okay, so they did have a separate room, okay. Now in that room, did you put up
partitions for privacy? Any walls or anything or kept it a single room?
TT:
My dad bought cloth and my mom sewed it together and they strung it up from the
ceiling and made rooms out of that.
RK:
Okay, yeah, I understood a lot of Japanese did that. Now the restrooms and showers,
were they in a different building and how far did you have to go?
9
TT:
TSUTSUI
Oh, I would say to the men’s restroom and shower from our barrack, it couldn’t have
been a little over a hundred feet. And then some men made partitions between the
commodes.
RK:
Right, because it was all open, I understand.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
The—
TT:
And then they made a bench and some hooks where you could put your clothes while you
take a shower. And in the winter when it rained, that dirt would stick to your shoes real
bad. It was kind of—
RK:
Clay, right, wasn’t it?
TT:
Clay.
RK:
Clay, oh, it was pretty muddy, I bet.
TT:
So the men all got together and went to that scrap pile and they made wooden walks from
each barracks to the latrines, the laundry room and to the kitchen so we didn’t have to
walk through the mud. (cough) When we first got there, my dad was the head sumo
instructor. And government said something about them so he got on a crew making
charcoal and from there he worked in the slaughterhouse and they had their own hog
farm. And one morning somebody had parked a caterpillar in there and they had to move
it and my father being the only farmer, went to move it, and you had to crank it and he
knew that when you crank a tractor, you hold a crank this way. But he held it this way
and when it backfired, the crank came back and broke his arm.
RK:
Oh, wow, yeah.
TT:
And so while he was in a cast, our block manager left so they made him block manager.
10
TSUTSUI
RK:
Now was there a hospital nearby so he could get his arm fixed easily.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay, now was there any communications between Camp Two and Camp One and Camp
Three?
TT:
I think so.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
There was, we called it a bus, but it was a flatbed truck with a side railings on it.
RK:
And go between the camps.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Oh, so you could see some people in the other camps. So do you remember any of the
barbed wire or guard towers or you are in fifth grade right at this time?
TT:
There was no guard towers, and the only barbed wire fence I saw was in the woods to
keep the wild horses away from camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And one time, P-38 landed or belly flopped and landed outside our camp and there was I
think three or four strands of barbed wire on that side but we are out in the desert, if you
went east there were foothills and mountains and if you went west, there was the
Colorado River.
RK:
River, right.
TT:
So, some of the older men used to hike to the mountains to go get greasewood to make
canes and ironwood and they would make canes, cigarette holders and chopsticks, and us
young people, we would go hike up there, too. And then when got to know how to get to
the Colorado River, I’d go to the mess hall and tell them how many days I would be gone
11
TSUTSUI
and my friends would go there and they would tell them how many days they’d be gone
and they’d give us food. And we’d hike to the river. At first we all carried a gallon of
water. Well later, we just carried one gallon of water among us because we drank the
river water later.
RK:
Right.
TT:
And I was about eleven and cooked our rice in an open one-gallon can and a wire handle
on it and fire going up the sides but we never burned the rice.
RK:
That’s pretty good.
TT:
And I forget what we got to cook but one day back at the barracks (cuckoo clock chirps)
they had those electric hot plates and I decided I was going to cook rice and about that
much on the bottom was black.
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
I did better with open flame.
RK:
Open flame, yeah. Now they had a mess hall. How was the food there? Was it prepared
by the internees?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And was it sufficient, do you think? Can you recall the food situation?
TT:
I, on the whole, I think it was all right.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And they had two shifts of cooks and cook’s helpers so my mom was a cook’s helper and
she would work every other day and you had to go there early in the morning. One
morning when she was just about to open the door, she heard a scream outside so she
12
TSUTSUI
peeked outside and the neighbor was one of the cooks and he was on the ground holding
his head. A mountain lion had clawed him.
RK:
Oh gee. Did he survive?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Yeah, okay. Now with the schools, did you go straight into a fifth grade school in
Poston?
TT:
Into sixth grade.
RK:
Into sixth grade, okay.
TT:
And our classrooms were one block of empty barracks so but they were building a
school, my father’s cousin worked on it. They made adobe block and built the school
with adobe.
RK:
Oh, yeah, that is a better material.
TT:
Yeah, so it didn’t get as hot in the summer or get as cold in the winter.
RK:
Yeah, exactly, that was smart. (chimes ringing)
TT:
They built a high school and a grammar school there. And my brother was a senior the
last year we were there. And he had a government pickup with him twenty-four hours a
day. He was the head refrigeration man. When they had trouble, he had to go to the
block and fix the refrigerator. He was working with another man learning it and the other
man left camp. So my brother had to take over.
RK:
Now do you recall the year that you actually went to the camp? Was it in 1942 or?
TT:
‘42.
RK:
And so how long were you at the camp?
TT:
We came out in ‘45.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, so three years.
TT:
Two or three years.
RK:
So you never got to the high school. You were in eighth grade when you came out?
TT:
I graduated in eighth grade in camp.
RK:
Okay. (cough) Your older brother and sister, they went to part of the high school, I
guess?
TT:
My older brother did. My older sister had a health problem. She couldn’t speak so she
never went to school.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So whatever we said in English or Japanese, she understood.
RK:
Now how was the education? The teachers at the camp, were they Japanese or some of
the Japanese?
TT:
Some were Japanese and some were Caucasian.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And being twelve and thirteen years old, we thought the Caucasians were dumb for
coming out into the hot desert.
RK:
Right.
TT:
But actually they were dedicated people. They cared about us.
RK:
That’s good. Now also what was the interaction between you and the military at the
camp? Were they friendly?
TT:
I was too young but my cousin lived in the next apartment to ours. He was one of the
first five or six that volunteered out of our camp.
14
RK:
TSUTSUI
Oh, for military service? Okay. Now when they had that choosing of the loyalty oath,
you were too young to?
TT:
I didn’t even see it.
RK:
I think that was for anyone over eighteen, eighteen and older, I think. Now, what other
activities especially a person when you were like you said in middle school, did you do
during the day when school was out? Were there things to do?
TT:
Well, we used to go fishing. A friend and I used to go golfing. Some people made a
nine-hole golf out in the mesquite—
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
For us and we did a lot of fishing. My friend’s folks used to dry that fish.
RK:
What kinds of fish did you catch out of the river?
TT:
Crappy, sunfish.
RK:
Any bass in there?
TT:
Black bass.
RK:
Black bass, yeah.
TT:
Catfish, Mr. Masuda that used to own Yosemite Nursery.
RK:
Uh-huh.
TT:
He was in our block. And he made a block pond.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And my uncle caught the second largest catfish of the three camps and that catfish was in
that pond.
RK:
Okay, good.
TT:
And they had carps in there.
15
RK:
TSUTSUI
Right. Yeah, a lot of the camps, they made fish ponds and different things for decoration.
So you stocked it with the fish you caught so that was pretty good. Now as you were, it
was nearing 1945 and people started leaving camp. Were you among the first to leave or
among the last to leave the camp?
TT:
I guess we were in the middle somewhere.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
My dad was block manager so out of our block, I guess we were one of the later ones.
He was supposed to inspect the crates that they crated their belongings out in and make
sure they weren’t taking any government things. If everything was okay, then he signed
it off.
RK:
Okay. Now did they have busses to pick them up?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And the reverse process, they went to Parker and they caught the train back?
TT:
Uh-huh.
RK:
Okay, now a lot of people didn’t have places to go I guess.
TT:
Well, my father, his best friend who later married my cousin and a man named Kenny
Taniguchi from Fowler, they came back to California—
RK:
Okay.
TT:
For a seven-day visit and my dad told him to bring my cousin’s car back, the ‘38 Ford.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So my dad told him to check the fish market building to make sure that everything was
okay. The landlord came there and told him to get out of town. If I see you here again, I
am going to shoot you with the shotgun.
16
TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
So they told that to my dad and then we came out on short term, seven days. And my dad
and my older brother and a man named Jack Yagura, and when we got to the—we left
Jack Yagura off in Fresno. And went to the fish store, this landlord came out and my dad
says, “Where is your shotgun? Go get the shotgun and I’ll wait for you.” I had my
fish- cutting knife in there and the guy never did bring the shotgun. And there was this
Kenny Taniguchi’s father was already back in Fowler, the other farm.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And he had a truck so helped us haul everybody’s belongings out and ship it to him
where they were and then my dad had this fish market business. He had a safe and it
must have been about thirty-six-inch high and about that square. And I remember my
dad, Mr. Taniguchi, my brother and myself, they told me to get on top. They tied a rope
around that safe and put planks and they were pushing it and they got almost to the top
when it got away from them. And I slide all the way across that truck bed and because I
only weighed about a hundred and fifteen pounds. But we got it over to Mr. Taniguchi’s
place and my dad gave it to him. Then when we came out of camp for good, this Joe
Tsutsui and my dad worked for Foster Viera and we shared a home. Joe’s older brother
Kay worked for Joe Viera, a brother, and then Mr. Sakaguchi, he worked for mother
Viera. They were all Vieras and the Japanese worked for them and he had a truck and a
trailer that they used to haul prisoners of war. Well later, my dad was driving and
Japanese would get on there and go from field to field.
RK:
Now this was in Hanford, right?
TT:
Hanford.
17
TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Then people started coming out of camp so my dad would let them use his car so they can
find some transportation. I guess most of the time he was helping them financially. And
then a man named Ida found a job with Peloian in Reedley and he told my dad why don’t
you come and work for Peloian? He has a thousand-acre vineyard in Selma. So my dad
got the job and then all these Japanese people that he stored their furniture and
everything, one by one they came to work for him over there.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And they gradually, they went back to San Pedro, Long Beach. That is where they were
originally from. When the war broke out, they were living in Terminal Island and they
had to get out of there because the Navy made a navy base there.
RK:
Right, right.
TT:
My dad’s best friend had a Dodge ten-wheeler and a Ford Bobtail and he had two Italian
brothers driving it and my dad paid them the wages to go get their belongings. And there
was a Japanese family named Yoshida I think, or Ishida, had a boarding house and it was
empty and my dad rented that for all those people and he bought their groceries until they
went to camp.
RK:
That’s amazing. Now when you left the camp, did you dad have a car to drive back or
did he take the train?
TT:
He drove back.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
My mom, my grandmother, my younger sister, my older sister, and my younger brother.
My father’s cousin and my cousin’s wife, we rode the train back.
18
RK:
TSUTSUI
Okay, how long was that trip, do you recall? It was pretty hot probably on the train
because you had to go through the desert.
TT:
Well, we left in the morning and about six o’clock we were in Hanford.
RK:
Yeah.
TT:
It was faster coming out than going in.
RK:
Oh.
TT:
When we went into camp, our train had to stop many times and pull the blind down
because military—
RK:
Oh, military bases you went by, I bet.
TT:
No military train would come by.
RK:
Oh, okay. They didn’t want you to see certain things. Yeah, I know on the way to
Parker, you cross a couple of military bases going to that area so that is probably another
reason they had you close the blind. Now when you came back you were—went to
school now in the high school, right? The Hanford High School, was it?
TT:
My freshman year.
RK:
Okay, and did you have any problems with the other students there? Name calling or any
prejudice?
TT:
Only one.
RK:
Only one, that is amazing.
TT:
And that was in the metal shop and that metal shop was divided into two rooms. And the
one room had the forges that used coke to fire and we were fighting in there and Ken
Devaney seen us so he poured water on that coke and cranked it up so the teacher didn’t
know what was going on in there.
19
TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
But later we became pretty good friends.
RK:
Now how were the teachers? Were they all pretty good in the—
TT:
Just one. I guess he was a good teacher but he would always say Jap.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
So I dropped out of his class.
RK:
Now did you go out for sports or any activities at Hanford?
TT:
No.
RK:
Now, did they have any clubs or things that you did or did you just go straight home after
school?
TT:
Went straight home, rode the bus.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then after one year, we moved to Selma. (chimes ringing)
RK:
Oh, okay, so you were only one year at Hanford?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
I’m going to pause. Wel,l it’s too late. I was going to pause it because of the bell but—
Okay, so when you moved to Selma now, did you go to Selma High School?
TT:
Yes.
RK:
Okay, and then how was the situation there at Selma?
TT:
Well—
RK:
Were there a lot more Japanese at Selma than—?
TT:
A lot more Japanese at Selma and no problem as far as race went.
RK:
Okay, and did you participate in any activities at Selma High School?
20
TT:
TSUTSUI
Well, everything was Buddhist kids or Christian kids. So I went around talking to
different people and I said, “Let’s start a club that race is not a barrier.” So they all
agreed. So first, we started what was called the Selma Youth Club—no, Selma Sports
Club. And it was all boys and then we decided we wanted to have some girls join us. So
we put on a talent show right here at the Kingsburg Buddhist Church and invited all the
girls to watch us and they joined.
RK:
Oh, that’s great. So how many people were in the club, do you estimate?
TT:
Between twenty and thirty.
RK:
Oh, that’s good. That’s a good-sized club back then.
TT:
And we used to hold dances and the Junior YBA from Fresno would come, Reedley,
Kingsburg and Sanger I think, and whenever we held a dance, it was good size.
RK:
Now did your parents—were them members of the Buddhist Church in Kingsburg?
TT:
No, they were Christians.
RK:
Oh, Christians. Okay.
TT:
And they belonged to the Harlan Memorial Chapter in Hanford.
RK:
Oh, okay. So when they moved to Selma, they still went to church in Hanford?
TT:
And I went to Sunday school Sunday mornings and the minister had two sons and three
daughters. One Sunday, we came out and there was a man named Mac Hasei and he was
about ten years older than us and the younger son of the minister used to lift barbells.
And the barbells were sitting on the side there and Mac said, “Let’s see you lift that?”
And he said, “I know you could do it because they used to call you toughie.” So he
struggled to bring it up to here and he really struggled to get it up over his head. And
then he said, “Let’s see you do it, Tak?” I said, “I don’t feel like doing it.” He said,
21
TSUTSUI
“You can’t do it?” I said, “I know I could do it but I don’t feel like doing it.” “You can’t
do it?” I said, “I know I could do it.” “You are chicken.” So I walked up to it, bent
down and grabbed it with my right arm from the ground and I brought it all the way up, a
hundred and five pounds.
RK:
Yeah.
TT:
They didn’t know I was that strong. So I used to lift weights before.
RK:
Okay, now did you do any judo or any activities like that outside of the school?
TT:
My wife taught sewing in 4H and after one year she said Tak why don’t you sign up for
something and that way you can get involved with your own kids. So I signed up to be a
tractor safety teacher. But before I had my first meeting, I had a stroke.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And most of the people thought I would drop out but I had my first meeting in my
pajamas and slippers.
RK:
Oh, great at least you showed up, yeah.
TT:
And everyone went along. My oldest daughter said, “Dad, we want to do a community
service.” I said, “Fine.” And she said, “We don’t want to go to the city park and rake
their leaves. We don’t want to go to the city park and pull weeds out of the flower beds.
We don’t want to go to homes and sing songs for the older people.” I said, “Well what
do you want to do?” She said, “You pick something.” And I remembered that there was
a place on Belmont and Brawley. I forget the name of it. But it was an old grammar
school so I drove over there and the husband and wife were taking care of the place. I
asked the wife, I said, “Can I take all these children from my place and give them a
hayride and a barbequed hamburger sandwich dinner?” And she said, “Oh, that would be
22
TSUTSUI
fine, but can you do it in May?” She said, “Now during the holidays, the Boy Scouts and
everyone wants to do something but later, they forget.” So I said, “Okay.” I went home
and called the parents of the students in my class, with myself, there were seven families,
and I told them what I wanted to do and asked them if they would help transportation and
financially and they all agreed. And then I told them to bring your whole family and we
will all eat together. That went over real good. After they left, I said to my wife, I bit off
more than I could chew. And she said, “What do you mean?” I said, “There is going to
be about seventy people here and all we have is a little barbeque grill.” She said, “Oh,
you will figure something.” After I thought for a couple days I had my younger brother
take me to a scrap iron place in Hanford. I would point to the iron and he would load it.
I came home and when my father was over, I’d have him help me measure it and then I’d
cut it with a torch and he would hold it into place by spot welding.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I could only weld about ten minutes, I’d get tired and go in and rest for two hours. It
took me six weeks to make.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
I still have that barbeque.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
It’s in the back. It is six feet two inches long and nineteen inches wide.
RK:
So you are able to get everyone and all the meat cooked, yeah. That worked out fine.
Now I’m going to go back a little ways in time here. In high school did you ever go to
like a Japanese language school, nihongakko?
TT:
No.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay. So you didn’t do any much activity outside of the school? Did you work?
TT:
I worked.
RK:
On the farm?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay. And what happened after high school? After you graduated, what did you do?
TT:
Worked on the farm.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
My dad was a foreman on that ranch. I was going to school every day I had to feed six
horses.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And then work on weekends. So in my sophomore year, I had my own car and I was
probably the only one that had his own car.
RK:
That’s good. Yeah, now what were the horses used for?
TT:
On the farm.
RK:
They were to pull the plows?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
That was before they had a lot of tractors, I guess?
TT:
They had some tractors there, but they used the horses and mules.
RK:
Now how long after you graduated did you meet your wife?
TT:
I think.
RK:
Because you graduated what?
TT:
‘49.
RK:
’49, yeah.
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TSUTSUI
TT:
In 1950 my brother and I bought a 1950 Ford.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
Brand new one. In 1951, five of my friends wanted me to go to the Sequoia retreat at
Lake Sequoia.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
The young Japanese Christians would have a one-week retreat up there.
RK:
Right. They have a YMCA Camp up there.
TT:
Yeah, and they didn’t have a car to go up so they asked me if I would take them. And I
asked my dad and he said if you get all the furrows in the cotton, then you can go because
that would be the last furrows of the year.
RK:
Right.
TT:
And I carried five gallon extra gas with me and started earlier than normal so the gas
would last until noon and go back carrying extra five gallons so I could work later and I
finished it so my dad said, “Okay.” So five of my friends and myself, we went to the
Sequoia retreat. And that’s where I met my wife.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And I tell people that she thought all the boys that went to a Christian camp were nice
boys, and after we were married, she found out that wasn’t true, but I tell her I was
fooled, too. (laughs)
RK:
So after you met her, how much longer before you decided to get married?
TT:
That was ‘51 and we got married in ‘53.
RK:
Oh, okay. Now was she from the local area?
TT:
Central High School area.
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TSUTSUI
RK:
Okay, and what was her maiden name?
TT:
Tanaka.
RK:
Tanaka, okay. And once you got married, how long was it before you started having
children?
TT:
First year.
RK:
Okay, and so that was a daughter?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay and so, total how many children do you have?
TT:
Three daughters and one son.
RK:
Okay, and how are they doing currently? (cuckoo clock chirping) First of all, they all
went to Selma High School?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
And graduated and did they all go on to college?
TT:
They went to Reedley.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then to Fresno State, except my son. He went to chiropractic school.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And my oldest daughter married a boy of German descent. And when he said he wanted
to marry my daughter, I asked him what happened the last time the Germans and
Japanese got together?
RK:
Right.
TT:
He said, yeah, we lost the war. But he said look at West Germany and Japan financially
today. This is thirty years ago.
26
TSUTSUI
RK:
Right.
TT:
He was going to school to be a history teacher and my daughter was going to school to be
a home economics teacher. So they, my daughter is Vice-President and Senior Auditor
for Kings River Independent Bank. And he’s a finance manager of something for Federal
Land Bank. They gave me a new car the other day but they won’t lend me a dime.
RK:
Now what about your other kids?
TT:
My second daughter married a boy of German descent and they are going to get married
in ‘78. So November of ‘78 I went and bought a new four-door Oldsmobile 88 and they
got married that summer so they could take that car on their honeymoon.
RK:
Oh, that was good.
TT:
My third daughter got married right here. She didn’t want a church wedding so they got
married here and we had the reception out in back. And I had this cup. (chimes ringing)
RK:
Okay, as you were saying before we were interrupted? She got married right here.
TT:
And she wanted the reception in the back. And my wife’s boss was invited, and earlier
my second daughter and her husband had given me a cup and it said, “The Greatest
Grandpa.” And all kinds of stuff like that on there, so I was drinking coffee and going
around talking to people and my wife’s boss is a grandpa and he said, “You think you are
the best grandpa?” I said, “No, someone else does.” So he couldn’t say anything.
RK:
Right, that was a good answer.
TT:
And then my son got married in a church in Hanford. The second daughter has my oldest
grandchild.
RK:
Oh, okay.
27
TT:
TSUTSUI
And when my granddaughter was born, my daughter lost quite a bit of blood. They
wanted to give her a transfusion and she asked the doctor if she would make it without it.
And he said yeah. So they came here from the hospital and lived here about three weeks
until my daughter gained enough strength. So that picture up there is of myself giving a
bottle to my granddaughter. And the unique thing about that, they gave me this picture
last year. One side, neither my granddaughter or myself are smiling, the other side, we
were both smiling. So last month I asked my granddaughter, when it’s time to put me in
that casket, make sure you put that picture in with me.
RK:
Okay, we’ll go over to the picture there and get a shot of it. There you are holding your
granddaughter. All right. That is amazing. That is quite a story. And then your other
kids? Are they all married?
TT:
All married.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And my son had eight and my second daughter, the other two don’t have any children so
my immediate family is nineteen.
RK:
Wow, that’s good.
TT:
Counting my wife and I.
RK:
So when you get together there is quite a few people at the house.
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Now when 1988 came around and they had the redress with the letter of apology from the
President, what was your reaction when it finally came through?
TT:
I don’t remember. I don’t think I had much of a reaction.
28
RK:
TSUTSUI
Because it took years to go through the process of trying to get it so you already knew
that people were working on it. But I guess at the moment it passed, there’s a law, the
Civil Liberties Act, you probably didn’t have much emotion to it at the time.
TT:
No, because both my wife and I put our $20,000 into paying for this house.
RK:
Oh, okay. So at least it went to good use, yeah. Because a lot of the Japanese lost quite a
bit more than what that amount was.
TT:
Wel,l my father lost eighty acres of vineyards.
RK:
Exactly. Now when you were farming, what were the main crops? Was it just grapes
or—
TT:
Grapes.
RK:
Or were there other crops?
TT:
No, grapes.
RK:
Okay. And they were mainly, for raisins?
TT:
Yeah.
RK:
Okay. Because this Kingsburg area is one of the main raisin-growing areas, Kingsburg
and Selma, in the nation so most of the farmers had, Thompsons, a, grew Thompson
grapes for raisins. And a, what’s your present situation now? Are you retired or do you
still farm a little bit?
TT:
I had a stroke in 1996.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And that’s why it took me so long to build that barbeque, I was paralyzed on one side.
And at that time, I was a foreman for some Hindu people, 200 acres—
RK:
Okay.
29
TT:
TSUTSUI
And I told them I would leave so they could hire someone else. They wouldn’t let me
leave.
RK:
Oh, wow.
TT:
So I was there till 1980.
RK:
Now where this house is sitting, do you own any farmland around this house?
TT:
Yeah. The younger brother and I, we own twenty acres.
RK:
Okay. And so, he still farms the—
TT:
Twenty acres.
RK:
The twenty acres, okay.
TT:
He took over being foreman at Peloian’s after my dad died, then he retired from that and
takes care of this place.
RK:
Okay, looking back at having to go in camp and those 3-4 years that you lost and having
to come back, do you see any changes that it did to your life? I know that being away
from this area had to be a dramatic effect on everyone’s lives. How did you cope with
having to go through that and then coming back and restarting your life, basically is what
everyone did?
TT:
Well, we had fun in camp.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
When we first came out of camp, I asked my dad what he thought of the government
putting us into camp.
RK:
Uh-huh.
TT:
He said, “The best vacation I ever had.”
RK:
(laughs) Okay.
30
TT:
TSUTSUI
And I thought that was an odd answer. He was a foreman for Peloian Ranches from 1945
till 1985 when he died. He was never away from that farm for more than three days at
one time.
RK:
Wow.
TT:
So he never had—
RK:
Vacation. Exactly. Yeah.
TT:
But when I first started working, he said to me no matter who you work for, work like
you own it.
RK:
Uh-huh. Yeah, I think that’s part of the Japanese culture is, you always try to do your
best and always work hard and things will be okay. A, you know, you don’t slack off and
give, you know, a second-rate effort, you are going to work hard and do the best you can
and a, and that hard work always comes out to help you out. I’m sure that happens in
school, in work, and in everyday life and so I think that’s the story of the Japanese. I
think they all pulled through out of the hardships of the camp, coming back and then
redoing their whole life and they were able to succeed. ‘Cause most of the Japanese
today are fairly successful and they had to do it, otherwise they couldn’t survive.
TT:
When my son was in grammar school, he started taking judo at age ten, and at first he
was losing all his tournaments, and he said “Mr. Kawano say to perfect my technique,
don’t worry about the wins, the wins will come later.” And later, he starts winning. And
this, he applied this to his school work. Do your studies and your grades are going to
come. He’s a lifetime membership with the, what do you call it?
RK:
Oh. The California Scholarship Federation.
TT:
Yeah.
31
RK:
TSUTSUI
Yeah, having that work ethic was good because yeah, you work at it and work and
everyone will come.
TT:
Uh-huh.
RK:
So it takes a lot of discipline and I think that’s also very important. If you have that
discipline to stick with it and work hard, things will come out, usually for the better. So,
a, you were mentioning he was pretty good in judo, what rank did he end up?
TT:
He was 4th degree.
RK:
4th degree black belt. Yeah. So now he could be an instructor if he wanted to.
TT:
Well, he head instructor for Fresno and he helps out in Fowler on Wednesdays and
Sundays. Fresno is Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sunday mornings. So he spends a lot of
time with judo. His oldest daughter just got back Saturday from Japan. She said she had
three wins and two losses. And that’s pretty good, going to Japan and—
RK:
Oh, exactly, and so she’s also into judo?
TT:
Uh-huh. Two years ago, she took—or three years ago she took second in the state
tournament and last year and this year, she took third in the state tournament. That’s still
pretty good.
RK:
Yeah. That’s real good. Now in your later years here, have you joined any JapaneseAmerican organizations in the community?
TT:
JACL. In fact last year the Selma JACL honored me at the dinner.
RK:
Okay.
TT:
And then I got a plaque up there from Central California Judo Black Belt Association, a
plaque from East Fresno Kiwanis.
RK:
Uh-huh. So you also took judo when you were—?
32
TSUTSUI
TT:
No. I just help out.
RK:
Oh helping out. Oh good, community work, yeah.
TT:
So I have a third degree honorary.
RK:
Honorary, that’s excellent!
TT:
And I was given a certificate of appreciation from California VFW and I’m not even in
the VFW. I got a letter—they wanted me to go to Lemoore Air Base but I couldn’t go
because that’s the day my daughter got married.
RK:
Oh, okay.
TT:
And my older brother couldn’t go either, he was going to be here so another man went.
And he said how did you get this? I said I don’t know. He said none of us in the VFW
ever got something like this. And I said I don’t know.
RK:
Well, it’s your help to the community and they appreciate it so that’s good.
TT:
I got a five-year certificate from the Fresno County 4H.
RK:
Uh-huh. Now if you could imagine that there were, there was no World War II—you
think your life—it’s kind of hard to imagine what your life would’ve been like, but a, you
have any ideas you ever thought that if this interruption never happened, that your life
would’ve been a little bit better or would’ve been the same?
TT:
Well, I don’t know. I would probably be selling fish.
RK:
Oh, okay. (laughs)
TT:
I was in the fifth grade. Every morning before I went to school, I had to call the
telegraph office (chimes ringing) and make a fish order for the next morning. My brother
was in the eighth grade but my dad had me do it. All my life, when he wanted
something, he asked me. So I think I would have taken over his business.
33
TSUTSUI
RK:
Oh, okay. And that sounded like a very successful business, the fish business.
TT:
It was for him.
RK:
Yeah, was there a lot of competition at that time or was he the only one in the—
TT:
There was one other Japanese fish market in Hanford.
RK:
Oh, so that’s good. Yeah. That would have been very successful. (laughs)
TT:
When my father first came from Japan, he ran around with American Indians so he
knows how to speak American Indian, he knows how to speak quite a bit of Spanish.
99% of his customers were Portuguese (cough) so he could speak Portuguese plus
English and Japanese.
RK:
Now, just thinking back with what the Niseis went through—Nisei, the second generation
Japanese-Americans—what do you think were their greatest contribution to the
community and future generations—going through the internment camp and some of
them going into the military service and a, coming through that and being successful
today, what did they show us?
TT:
I think they showed that no matter how tough things get, you flow with the side. Don’t
fight it. And you’ll come out on dry ground. I think that’s one of the biggest thing that
the Japanese did. They didn’t fight it. They just went along with what they were told.
RK:
Okay. What do you feel was some of your greatest accomplishments with your life that
you thought was very successful?
TT:
Probably being married to my wife for fifty-two years, having children and
grandchildren.
RK:
Now that’s very good. If you can stay married that long, I know a lot of marriages don’t
even last but a few years nowadays. But that’s, over fifty years is an accomplishment.
34
TSUTSUI
And then all your children are very successful and so, having kids that are successful—
that’s also a very good accomplishment. And anything else?
TT:
A friend asked me how we managed to stay together so long. And I said my wife says
she’ll never leave me. He says why. She says she doesn’t want to see me happy.
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
But a couple of years ago she says maybe she’ll leave me so she could be happy.
RK:
(laughing) Yeah, I think she was just kidding. That’s amazing. If you were giving
advice to young people today, what would you tell them? The, you know, the new
generation of people.
TT:
I would tell them to respect their elders, to respect the law, to respect their teachers—and
whatever they do, do it the best they can.
RK:
Exactly. Yep. Okay, we are nearing the end of this interview. A, do you have anything
else you want to say?
TT:
Umm, not really.
RK:
I think we covered quite a few, quite a bit of the history here and a, I want to thank you
for doing this interview because your information and those of others who we interview
will be very important to researchers in the future generations who want to look back at
the way the Japanese-Americans went through this hardship of the 1940s and turned it
around and today in the year, the century of 2000 we’re, for the most part, pretty
successful people. And a, the important thing is how were the Japanese-Americans able
to persevere all through this trials and tribulations and some of your stories is important
to letting us know how you were able to accomplish that and get through the hardships
because it’s (ahem) almost seems amazing that a group of people here, 120,000 people
35
TSUTSUI
that were in the camps were able to come through that and make it through and a, most of
them came out of the camp and a, were able to basically come above all that, and become
successful. And a, so I appreciate you agreeing to do an oral interview with us.
TT:
I told my wife the reason why I agreed it said something about to be put into the Fresno
State library?
RK:
Right. This is going to be in the Asian Studies, Special Collections.
TT:
Well, I hope my grandchildren will benefit from this.
RK:
Oh, sure. All the future generations will benefit.
TT:
My oldest one works at the library in Fresno State.
RK:
Oh, okay that’s good.
TT:
She goes to Fresno State. And I don’t know how many hours a week she works there, but
even through the summers, she’s working there. (partly overlap)
RK:
Okay, yeah. It’s going to be housed, the library right now is being renovated and so
they’re doing a remodeling but a, it’s going to look real nice and the Special
Collections—It’s the Sanoian Special Collections and Historical Archives there is housed
on the 4th floor, and the head of the unit is Tammy Lau, and so we been doing this oral
history program in cooperation with her and the Asian Studies program there, so it’s
going to be a fine collection with all these different people that we interviewed so the
people in the future will get all this information which would have been lost if you didn’t
do it because the stories of the people that actually experienced this are very important
and sometimes they get passed on to their grandkids, but a lot of them never make it out
of the family and so people on the outside never hear of all the hardships that the people
36
TSUTSUI
had to endure—some people had fun in the camps, other people didn’t like the camps and
so we’re getting all the different stories of how it was and that’s very important.
TT:
This granddaughter that’s going to Fresno State, one day she says to me, “I’m more
Japanese than I am German.” I said, “How do you know?” She says, “I’d rather eat
mochi than eat chocolate.”
RK:
(laughing)
TT:
Her father is of German descent.
RK:
Right. Okay, so Takashi Tsutsui, I thank you very much.
TT:
You’re welcome.
END OF INTERVIEW