Shai Chang interview
Item
Title
Shai Chang interview
Creator
Chang, Shai
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00036
extracted text
>> Hello, welcome Shai, thank you so much for consenting to be interviewed. Can you give me verbal permission to
interview you and to be deposited into Fresno State archives successful Southeast Asian voices?
>> Sure, I, Shai Chang, go ahead and give Doctor Jenny Banh permission to go ahead and interview me. Is that all I
need to say, or--?
>> Yes, if you could spell your name, that'd be ideal.
>> Sure. So my name is spelled first name S-H-A-I, last name Cheng: C-H-A-N-G.
>> Excellent. What is your birth year, don't tell me the date, just the year.
>> 1995.
>> What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> I was born in Fresno, my ethnic group is Hmong.
>> What generation are you in the United States? First, second, third?
>> I consider myself the first like one and a half.
>> Okay, excellent. What is your mother and father's highest education?
>> No formal education whatsoever.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> What is your GPA?
>> My GPA is, I think it's about 2.75 now.
>> Okay, what is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> I would like in my future to be able to go ahead and receive a PHD in sociology, but that's also really based on kind
of like my support and also based on income a lot, my finance.
>> Okay.
>> So->> What is your social economic status of your family growing up? Is it working class, middle class, rich, affluent?
>> Definitely working class.
>> What was the high school that you went to, was it public or private?
>> It was a public high school.
>> What high school was it?
>> It was Duncan Polytechnical High School.
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>> And what's the demographics of the high school, was it mostly Asian?
>> Yes, so the demographic of the high school was mostly Asians, there was mostly Southeast Asians and then most of
them were Hmong and there's Hispanics, Latinos, Latinas, and then it was Hispanics and then Latinos and then Hmongs.
Roughly about the same amount, and stuff. Most of the teachers there were white.
>> Why do Hmong students go to college, why or why not?
>> I think a lot of the reason why Hmong students would go to college is because they want to provide a lot of support
for their family. Either financial support or they try to find some kind of support for their family to kind of uplift them to
a better class.
>> Do Hmong students have strong relationships with administrators and faculty?
>> I wouldn't say so. I feel like it's really dependent on person to person but think generally overall I wouldn't say so
that the Hmong population does not have a very strong tie with the faculty and staff.
>> Why do you think that's so?
>> I think that's kind of coming in to the whole like I don't really know but I feel like it revolves around like not asking
for help or not even knowing it's there. But definitely I feel like it's because they don't know that that's important.
>> Okay.
>> Or that that's something that they need, it's you're more reliant on, it's a lot of like layers I feel like it could possibly
be that they're more reliant on family, they don't really, but also on top of that I also feel like they're not trained nor are
they educated about that and which they have to go ahead and talk to their professors or the faculties and staff and really
try to form some kind of relationship early on. Until, growing up for me growing up I was never really taught to like hey
you should make relationships you should do networking. But even that, I was never really taught what networking
looks like, people would say work with people but never really taught you what networking is or why you need it, and
so-- I'm sorry what was that?
>> I just said excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Great. What is your favorite subject, what is your least favorite subject?
>> My favorite subject would probably have to be sociology for sure. Along with [inaudible], too. My least favorite
subject I would say it would be history.
>> History? Okay. What makes a good professor to you and what makes a bad professor to you?
>> I think a good professor for me is someone who really is willing to be engaged with you, someone who takes the
time to go ahead and talk to you and also someone who cares for you and also is forgiving. But definitely they believe in
you. I think that that's really important that a professor needs to have the ability to believe in you. And also the ability to
kind of see that you are struggling as a student and for them to make that approach instead of you making the approach.
I think a bad professor is someone who is just-- I don't know how to explain it it's just that like a bad professor has just
been really frustrating, they to me a bad professor is someone who has these kind of expectations of you to fulfill and
you don't fulfill them. And then it's just kind of like they're not working with you, they're working against you.
>> Okay.
>> Like they aren't helping you to, like for instance they will set an unrealistic expectation that everyone has to meet.
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And then when everyone fails it's kind of like well you should have studied harder. But it's like we can't, it's working
with that group of students and kind of figure out what can I do, what can I do to make sure that you all pass but still
learn. And so I feel like, so for instance like doing unrealistic tests and making, like being able to work with students to
being able to like you're working with the students and you change your test so that you make sure that your students are
learning and growing right versus making a test in which it's just really difficult for them to kind of meet. And setting
unrealistic expectations for writing a twenty page essay and making a due date the next day, something like that. I feel
like that's something like what some professors do. Yeah and I feel like, that's a very exaggerated example but,
sometimes I feel like that's what some of the professors do. Some of the great professors that I had in which I learned a
lot was the professors that just really pushed you, believes in you, and was able to go ahead and accommodate to you
with your life.
>> Have you ever been mentored?
>> I have not, not until just recently this past academic like year.
>> Okay, thinking back on your high school years what were the teacher expectations of you as a person, Shai?
>> Yeah, I feel like I had this expectation of me to be successful. To be->> Well what were the teacher expectations of you?
>> Right.
>> Like what did your college teachers think of you?
>> My teacher thought of me like that I was-- because I was very actively involved within my high school and so->> Oh.
>> Yeah and so that way, it's kind of like funny in a way where, it's kind of weird because like I'm so involved within
the whole community thing that like I feel like it [inaudible] in my academic life it's not as strong and sometimes some
people don't understand like that's like my teacher would kind of like it feels like it's like it doesn't relate. And so it's
kind of like you're doing so well with your clubs and stuff like that well I should be doing well academically and so
sometimes they feel like those two are supposed to relate and correlate, if you're doing well in life you shouldn't be
doing well in academics, so they have an expectation of me to be successful. And my academics have always been
struggling. A struggle for me, and so they have that expectation of me to be successful that I never ever could really
reach that point of what they want. And so they always used the term like it feels like you're shooting yourself in the
feet.
>> Ooh, okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Thinking back of your high school that you've talked about because it kind of relates, did you think your high school
prepared you well enough for college?
>> No.
>> In what way? Did they lack?
>> I feel like it has and it hasn't. For instance I think like essays and stuff like that I think it has prepared me to write
essays and you know but at the same time it hasn't prepared me to kind of get me to understand what studying is. Get me
to form the kind of academic habits that you would need to survive at a college level. Right and so I feel like it hasn't
prepared me like fully to go ahead and kind of study habits or academic habits that I need. But also I feel like it's not just
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high school that did not prepare me but I feel like my whole K through 12 did not prepare me just because like I feel like
elementary school has been so deprived of funds that we, I went to like Ewing and it cut me out of Ewing Elementary
School I didn't realize it was actually one of the lowest fund and the lowest scored school elementary school.
>> Oh.
>> And so, right, and so it was one of the lowest scoring and lowest funding elementary school and so it was hard for
me to like my whole like K to six was kind of like a also there was a lot of bullying so it was kind of like a blackout for
me. And so there was too much of like kind of like and so I kind of lack a lot of like basic skills I feel that was necessary
for me to be able to stack upon when I reached to the high school level. And so when I went to the high school level it
became a struggle for me because I needed the basic, like we haven't brushed up on basic, I was thankful because in
high school we brushed up on basics. We brushed up on basic kind of like English. So where do you put the commas,
when to use the S and apostrophes and stuff like that so those kind of things really helped and really kind of
like[inaudible] but those are things you should have learned when you were in like elementary.
>> Right.
>> Right, and so that's why it was kind of like hard for me.
>> That's a great point, that you had a big educational barrier and that you weren't prepared well enough through your K
through 12.
>> Right.
>> Thinking back from your kind of undergrad years as well as including your high school or K to 12 years, do you
think that you had any cultural barriers or financial or health or structural, any type of barrier that you can think about?
>> For sure, I think that if my parents had some kind of formal education I think they would have been able to help me
out a lot more. And talking with some of my other friends who were not talked to Asian, who were not Hmong or
whatever, they identify like more like white or they're parents have some kind of educational background, they were
able to help them out more and so I feel like that would have been helpful because I didn't have that, and so it was kind
of hard for me to do my work. But even then my parents didn't any formal education and so that way they didn't really
understand, they understand the education is important but they can't fully grasp it. And so that's why they like when I
didn't do some of my homework stuff like that, it wouldn't be, they understood it was important for me to do it but it
wasn't like they stressed very hard into it making sure that I was doing it, or like ways in which they could help me. So a
lot of the times I would cry a lot because my homework was really hard for me because I couldn't understand
homework.
>> That's a good point. In terms of cultural background do you think that your life would be easier or harder had you
been a female? Is it gender a possible barrier or no?
>> I want to say yes and I also want to say like no. Just because my family we grew up like, actually yeah I don't know.
I mean so like my parents, okay so for me, my parents gave up a lot on the Hmong culture just so that we could go
ahead and be able to focus onto our education, for instance playing a Hmong instrument, giving up on that part so we
could go ahead and focus on education. Having us learn about the culture so that we can go ahead and focus onto our
education. But even though my parents were so very traditional Shaman, they practice Shamanism.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Yeah so I feel like they still practice Shamanism but they also give up a little of some of the traditions so that way
we can go ahead and be able to focus onto our education. But I feel like that was for the boys, because the boys have to
learn the culture, the boys have to learn to play the instrument, and just kind of like and taking care of the family. So
really like those were kind of the things that my parents they wanted. And so it was kind of like those things were put on
us, on the boys and I feel like that was a lot of pressure for me. Even now my after my, just this year my grandpa passed
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away, there has been a lot of pressure on me specifically because my brothers they don't know the Hmong culture like I
do, how I am much more involved within the Hmong community.
>> Oh.
>> Yeah, and so me being president for the Hmong Student Association, me being involved so much with the Hmong
Student Association within the culture learning more and being interesting in all of the Hmong aspects of Shamanism
and stuff like that. Asking my dad like what tool this is, can you teach me? Say, some of the Shamanism like things,
some of the rituals, seeing some of the rituals and him teaching that to me instead of my brothers makes me feel like it
was a lot of pressure on me. But not only that, it's harder because I also identify as gay. My parents are conservative so
they don't accept that so it's kind of like they're putting this expectation onto me and hoping that I will be able to take
care of them when they're older. Only then to have, but I will tell them that I am gay, only for them to go ahead and
realize that oh I'm gay so they can't, even my mom mentioned it one time that everything that she has hoped for me and
have taken care of me was always good.
>> Oh, okay.
>> So yeah.
>> In a way do you think that there are positive aspects of Shamanism or your religion that kind of helps you in college
at all? I know there's a lot of expectation on you to take over for your family, is there any resilience at all having a
Shaman background in education or there's no correlation? It's kind of tricky because for one it has in some ways
because they do celebrate your big achievements like they will call the ancestors, so whenever you graduate from high
school it'll be up to you whether you want to or not and then like it would be up to your family. They would go ahead
and do a big celebration and they'll call the ancestors to go ahead and join us, so your ancestors would join you and your
family will join you->> Wow.
>> Yeah, right, and would celebrate you. A type of celebration to go ahead announce that you have graduated high
school or you have gained a bachelor or a PHD and so those are kind of like milestones that usually they do it for. They
do it for a high school graduation or they would do it for, and depending on how far you'll go in the education system,
like PHD for sure. So those are like the milestones. Usually they make a big party and then they do a big party and they
do a ceremony in which people would come over and they will a tie string for luck and blessing you into your future.
>> Wow. So you got that from when you graduated high school?
>> I did.
>> Wow. That's very amazing. Do you think that there's anything that I could ask you that hampers or any other barriers
that you might have had?
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>> Alright. This is part two of Shai Chang's interview. This is the last four questions of your inspiring story at
Fresno State. Many students actually don't graduate and you are a successful student in many ways because
you're the president of the Hmong Association, but also very active in the community. Looking back at your
personality you've gone through a lot of barriers because you indicated that your parents didn't' go or have
formal education. How come you made it? What is the personal thing about Shai; can you speak about Shai?
Why did-- Why are you so persistent?
>> So I feel like I have been very persistent and just because I have such a great support system from my
friends and from my family. Especially my family has been very educational focused so they have sacrificed a
lot for-- for me. I feel like that's kind of a great motivation for me to continue. And so they sacrifice a lot of
their time and also money just really to just go ahead and give me some kind of celebration whether it's like
small or big. And so->> Are you--?
>> On top of that I just feel like my friends have been great support of me, especially-- especially because
of Hmong Student Association I feel that that really helps me move forward and I'm really able to go ahead
and just really being able to progress into a more healthy environment for me. So I was just really
surrounded by more positive people and just really [inaudible] people who have really just really wanted to
see me succeed.
>> Great.
>> And so-- right, and so they have been really wanting to really give me resources that they think would
help [inaudible]. It's just kind of like-- so being at the Hmong Center Association was a really big help for me
and being a successful student.
>> Can you--?
>> Sometimes we'll coordinate study sessions together.
>> Oh.
>> Or like sometimes, you know, I will-- I will know someone from the Hmong Student Association is also
taking the same class as me.
>> Oh.
>> And so we'll take the same classes together and then we'll study together or like, you know, we'll find-or like they'll go ahead and give me like resources like oh hey Shai you should go to this conference, and so
that really helped me, right, and so that really helped me in kind of like understanding like where my future
is going because it's just kind of like I never really thought about my future until I joined HMSA. So, or I just
was interacting with people at a-- at an academic level.
>> Can you kind of give us the story how you became president?
>> Yes. So really like-- and being the president, like, it wasn't-- and so it was kind of by default just because
like nobody else ran against me so really I was the only one running, like I was really the only one running.
But like, kind of I was really the only one running and so I kind of won it by default, but it was also because
people were-- was encouraging me a lot. So like, you know, like they really saw me as being the president.
And it was also because I was the only-- I was the only-- because a lot of the members will have activated
by the time I came into my-- until my-- until my fourth year. And so-- and so into my fourth year no one else
with that experience or has been at the Hmong Student Association as long as I have.
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>> Oh wow.
>> And so-- mm-hmm.
>> What--?
>> So I was in it like all my-- ever since my freshman year.
>> Wow.
>> And so, yeah. So->> What is--?
>> Now my freshman year-- I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> Thinking back to your freshman year, what is the most-- what is the thing that you're most proud of in
terms of Hmong Student Association programming as president?
>> I think we definitely have come a long way and so I feel like it-- it was a really big change. I think when
I came in as a freshman it wasn't like we-- I was in a transition period with the Hmong Student Association
just because the people that was in there before they were a bit more, I wouldn't say conservative, but I
wouldn't say that they were open minded. But I would definitely say that they weren't very under-- they
definitely-- it was a different environment in which it was harder for younger, I would say especially for
myself to express myself within that environment, especially my own identities and kind of like rocking the
boat and trying to change things, like-- like especially trying to find solidarity, especially in the Hmong
community that increases solidarity with-- with other ethnic minorities and other->> Right.
>> Yeah, right. And so there wasn't a lot of kind of like understanding about the [inaudible] or even a lot of
like civic engagement. And so as the year went by my year I really wanted to focus on to having everyone
understand that civic engagement is really important, having solidarity with other people and supporting
other people besides just Hmong community is a really strong thing in making sure that everyone is-- only
the Hmong community is thriving and surviving and so-- and so it's becoming a very-- has become a very big
change and so the-- I would say the Hmong Student Association now has been really much more physically
engaged and much more willing to interact and so we want-- we went-- we went to the diversity dinner.
>> Okay.
>> Which-- in which the club that the most-- the club that has the most attendees will receive a pizza party
and so the Hmong Student Association won that.
>> Oh.
>> And so-- right, and it was at the end of the-- it was the year-- it was the end of the academic year,
which-- which everybody was really pushing for more-- more solidarity and everyone and so I really wanted
everyone to be supportive and so everyone showed up for that; everyone showed up for [inaudible] jam. It
was a lot of everyone showing like support and it has been a very-- it has been like a very big struggle but
definitely have come a long way, so.
>> Great.
>> Yeah.
>> As a student, student leader, tell me if you-- if these things matter to you, if you want them at all. Do
you want-- so I'm going to list these things. Do you want smaller classes?
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>> I'm sorry can you repeat that?
>> Do-- would you like smaller classes as a student or does it make any difference, this class size?
>> I don't think class size matters too much but I feel like the professor matters a lot.
>> Okay.
>> I have classes in which it was small classes but the professor wasn't-- wasn't really there for you and so
it just kind of gave me that disconnect in which like the professor was just really there for his own research,
their own research, and their-- their own interests and just came in-- like you know that they were hired just
to do research and hired to go ahead and teach, because you know, you can just tell how interested they
were or how much time they wanted to put in to you. And so that just was a very big turnoff for me.
>> Okay.
>> But I have been in classes in which it was-- it was a big lecture hall; it was like-- I think it was like 200
classes.
>> Oh wow.
>> In which-- yeah it was 200; it was a big lecture one and the professor was just-- it felt like the professor
was talking to you every time the professor talked.
>> Oh.
>> And the professor has just been very just like really wanting to see us succeed, and so like it was just a
math class too and so he would talk about like so you do this math so that way you can go ahead and be
able-- so he was relating math to kind of like just our real life.
>> Oh.
>> And so he would-- and so-- right, and so it was just like how this math is important for you to learn so
that you can learn how to do tax. I was like oh okay, I see.
>> Yeah.
>> And so-- right. It really felt like, you know, he was doing a lot to making sure that we were fixating past
the class. So, mm-hmm, and so see I have like been in both areas and I don't think it matters too much
about the class size but it matters a lot by the -- by the quality of the professor.
>> Good point. And then really you said to relate it to real life issues. What about co-ethnic professor, does
that make any difference?
>> Co-ethnic professors?
>> Well Asian professors; did you-- have you-- would you want more Asian professors or it makes no
difference?
>> Yeah. Okay for sure yes I want more Hmong professors here at Fresno State, like for reals, like I-- I'm a
sociology professor and I want to be-- I mean I'm not a sociology professor, I am a sociology student; I
want more sociology-- I want to be able-- I go-- I want to be able to the sociology department and ask
someone, hey I'm very interested in doing research within the Hmong community; does anyone here-- are
the Hmong or have they done research into the Hmong community and yes there have been people there
that have done research in the Hmong community but I just feel like it's another story when they have done
research or them also being Hmong. And so it's just-- I just feel like I want that person who I can connect
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with ethnically in understanding, like they understand like-- like immediately because not to just-- not to
[inaudible] anything, like they're really great, they're really understanding, but they're also-- but they're
white. And so I just feel like they don't really truly understand the struggles and conflict of racism and the
kind of oppressions that a Hmong person grows up with, that Hmong persons are faced with, and I feel like I
want someone who understands that, and the then go ahead and from there go ahead and support me and
saying like I see where you're going and I want to [inaudible] you and encourage and empower you to do
better.
>> And what about gender, does the gender matter; do you want Hmong male professor or does it not
matter?
>> Like if I get to choose I want someone who's like-- I want someone who's queer and Hmong because
I'm queer and Hmong and I just don't have anyone like that. But if anything I would want, I don't know,
that's kind of a bit tricky just because like the Hmong is kind of like patriarchal and so my experiences with
like Hmong professors that have been males have not been too well, but like individuals like Hmong
individuals who have been Hmong-- Hmong and females, like they have been more positive than-- they have
been more positive, just like they were much more encouraging and empowering of me, especially with my
own identities. And so I would say someone who is-- if I had to choose someone who is definitely for like-first Hmong and like non-binary or transgender like, you know, just really like being able to-- so like-- so
Hmong, being queer; if not then Hmong and female.
>> Okay. What about co-ethnics? Would you want more Hmong students or even more Hmong clubs?
>> I-- yes. I just feel like here like since I went over to UC Berkley and they had queer and Asian, a club
and it was like-- and it was very-- they also had like Hmong and they also had a big Southeast Asian club
and they also had like->> Oh wow.
>> And they also had like Cambodian. It was just like all the like-- so like it was like one big one and then it
broke up to different ones and it was like-- they all coexisted together. It wasn't like oh-- it wasn't like oh we
already have that kind of club here on campus, but it's totally-- it was like saying like if there was a
Southeast Asian club and you wanted to have a Hmong club and then it just feels like here at Fresno State it
feels like they would deny you of the Hmong club because there's a Southeast Asian club.
>> Interesting.
>> And right. It feels that way but it's very much that way and it just feels like-- like here at Fresno State I
just feel like because there is a Hmong club we can't make any other Hmong clubs because there's already
one already.
>> Oh okay.
>> Yeah. And so->> Yeah so you want more.
>> Mm-hmm. But what about the-- like why can't we make more Hmong clubs like why can't we make a
Hmong and queer club.
>> Yes.
>> We can only make a-- right, or like there has been even like right now me and my friend, you know,
we're going to be making a Hmong and research club.
>> Oh right.
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>> Right. Right and just because like we want to be [inaudible] and connect with each other at different
levels and I just feel like the Hmong-- the Hmong-- nothing to [inaudible] the Hmong Student Association
but it just feels like everyone always turns to that club for everything, everything that's Hmong related and
that's a lot of work and that's a-- so like I always feel like we were a student organization running at a
organization mode like at local organizational level.
>> Mm-hmm, definitely.
>> Right.
>> I also thought that as well.
>> Right.
>> You're doing big time work actually. Usually it's a whole job.
>> We're doing-- we're doing a conference, we're doing like-- we're doing like the whole thing like an
organization does, it's just like we don't get-- it's all volunteer work and it just feels like->> Yeah.
>> Yeah it's overwhelming sometimes, a lot. It's very overwhelming for a lot of our members, especially
officers, and so like yes why can't there be more like clubs here at Fresno State that are-- yes there are
more wonderful and like more Southeast Asian and because here at Fresno State there's such a big
Southeast Asian community and it just, yes I want that.
>> Great. Thank you. So now I'm going to ask you, before I ask you the very last question, is there
anything that you feel that Fresno State needs to have, like workshops or classes or anything? I mean so
right now this is the wants; what do you want at Fresno State to encourage the Southeast Asians to be
successful like yourself and to graduate, like what do you want, like--?
>> I don't really know where to go with this but I do know that I want to be able to say that Fresno-- this is
the goal of what I want to say; I want to have been able to say that Fresno State has helped me in being a
successful student.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And I feel like I can't really say that.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> You know, I feel like->> So do you want a successful student workshop? What do you mean; what do you want?
>> Right. I feel like I want a not only successful student workshop but being able to-- I don't know exactly
but I do want to be able to say that-- I want to be able to say that Fresno State specifically has helped me
and really wanting to be-- and believing in me being and wanting me to be successful. But I can't really say
that because I just feel like whenever I'm asking for funding I feel like it's something I have to fight for.
Whenever I-- whenever I feel like I want something to-- I want something, I want something to change, I
want something to happen I just feel like there is no support for me to make that change, there is no
support of me to wanting to-- for something like that to happen. I just feel like our campus is apathetic,
which is not very interested in any civic engagement duties or not really interested in wanting to do more
[inaudible] climate, or just kind of like not very interested in wanting to be more supportive or showing
stronger solidarity or just being very interested in just showing up to the events. And I feel like even if we
were to say yes I want this workshop, I just feel like no one's going to show up to it. So I-- and that has
always been my experience, especially working on campus, and once we make events it's just kind of like
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this is a really good workshop for you to show up. No one-- and then like you're expecting-- I want
[inaudible] people there and only [inaudible] shows up, what does that show; what does that mean; what
does that say about Fresno State; what does that say about our student population here?
>> Is it that they're working and they can't make it; is that an issue?
>> I definitely think so for sure. There is, I don't know, I forgot where, but there has been research that
show that Fresno State is one of the schools in which like students work and also be a student at the same
time.
>> Right right.
>> So, and so I don't know exactly what we do need but I do know that there needs to be more support for
students.
>> Okay.
>> I think especially->> Should we bring the workshop to classes? I mean if you brought it to a class that's at least 45 people, so
is that a way to do it, or--?
>> Yeah. Yeah I think that would be a good way to do it.
>> Take it to a class. Okay, because they have to go to class.
>> Yeah. Right. Like yeah I agree. So like we should take it to the students.
>> Okay.
>> Maybe we should-- yes, I agree with that. I like that idea, yes. I think we should take it to the students
and we shouldn't wait for the students to come to us because I feel like yes we shouldn't let the students
come to us; I feel like we should go to the students.
>> Okay.
>> [inaudible], we should go to the students. I feel like we should- I think there was a discussion of kind of
like training students about like how to run an organization. Yes let's do that. Let's go ahead and bring them
like what to do to get more funding; why can't we do that? I think that there should be classes like that. I
think there should be workshops like that, like yeah.
>> If you-- definitely you can bring it to my class any time. Come to my entire class, 45 students will listen
to you, you know, with interest. Anything else; like is there any classes that you want to see, like just actual
classes, the name of classes, like as a soc-- as a soc major? Do you want any sociology of Southeast Asians
in Fresno class? What-- what do you-- what classes do you want?
>> Yes. More ethnic studies for sure, like I think [inaudible] like how important ethnic studies is into really
just being involved into like the whole ethnic community; it's just kind of like-- it's like-- I feel like because I
just feel like there's no-- there's not a lot of studies within the ethnic community and I just feel like there
should be a class about that. So yes there should be a sociology of African Americans or yes there should be
a sociology of Southeast Asians, you know, there should be a sociology of like all these-- of the [inaudible]
minority and talking about that, expanding on that, and not just bring it up and how does that effect you for
like one workshop, but like expanding upon that with research, expanding more about that with the whole
class like just like doing that for a whole week or so, you know. That's so much more different if we just get
up for one workshop for like an hour or for like 30 minutes, you know. So like talking about how like modern
minority myth within the Southeast Asian and how that affects Southeast Asians, kind of like bringing that up
and making that-- changing that, and really-- yeah and really just-- really empowering everyone and I feel
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like yes there should be a Southeast Asian sociology or Southeast Asian [inaudible] should be sociology of
like all the different-- because you know they will, a sociology for-- there was a sociology class for-- it was
oppression and race, you know, and stereotypes and stuff like that, but like that's-- and I just feel like that
doesn't go into depth of each area. Like it would-- each area was brought up, it wasn't very in depth and I
feel like each-- each one is so important that they should go in depth.
>> Right. That's a great point. Did I leave out anything to ask you for anything else that you want at Fresno
State; if not I'm going to move to the last question?
>> No I-- yeah, go ahead.
>> Okay, so as a student leader, as someone really important at Fresno State and in the Hmong community,
can you give any advice to the third or fourth generation who have the same struggles as you who will be
coming in who might want to, you know, drop out or, you know, not continue? Can you give them any
advice to why they should stay and graduate and why education is important?
>> I would say that-- hmm. Get involved.
>> Get involved. Definitely.
>> [inaudible] Yes. Like I would say->> Get involved, yes.
>> I would-- I would say challenge your own belief, I feel like that's something, or challenge everything, be
a critical thinker. Like be-- yeah I would say be a critical thinker. I would say that whenever you're struggling
ask for help.
>> Excellent.
>> Or if someone asks you for help don't judge. I know that a lot of times that they may be feeling like they
would be judged if they are asking for help, ask for help; it's so important. Know the resources on campus
that are there for you and don't be afraid to go in and asking for what specifically what you want. And I
would say that self-care is so important.
>> Go on.
>> Yeah I would say self-care is so important. I just feel like as a person who has gone through depression
and suicide and a lot of that because of school, because of how stressful it is I think it's so important for us
to go ahead and take a step back and reassess ourselves and really just think about what ways can I do
better; what ways can I go in and ask for help. But if-- yeah.
>> That is tremendously wonderful advice. Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay great. You know I love how you-- that was-- if every student did what you told them to do I think
they'd be very successful, so, and I loved-- I loved how you said pers-- taking care of yourself, that's-- that's
also very important. So all around great advice. So thank you Shai. I'm going to turn off the recorder now for
your interview.
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interview you and to be deposited into Fresno State archives successful Southeast Asian voices?
>> Sure, I, Shai Chang, go ahead and give Doctor Jenny Banh permission to go ahead and interview me. Is that all I
need to say, or--?
>> Yes, if you could spell your name, that'd be ideal.
>> Sure. So my name is spelled first name S-H-A-I, last name Cheng: C-H-A-N-G.
>> Excellent. What is your birth year, don't tell me the date, just the year.
>> 1995.
>> What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> I was born in Fresno, my ethnic group is Hmong.
>> What generation are you in the United States? First, second, third?
>> I consider myself the first like one and a half.
>> Okay, excellent. What is your mother and father's highest education?
>> No formal education whatsoever.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> What is your GPA?
>> My GPA is, I think it's about 2.75 now.
>> Okay, what is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> I would like in my future to be able to go ahead and receive a PHD in sociology, but that's also really based on kind
of like my support and also based on income a lot, my finance.
>> Okay.
>> So->> What is your social economic status of your family growing up? Is it working class, middle class, rich, affluent?
>> Definitely working class.
>> What was the high school that you went to, was it public or private?
>> It was a public high school.
>> What high school was it?
>> It was Duncan Polytechnical High School.
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>> And what's the demographics of the high school, was it mostly Asian?
>> Yes, so the demographic of the high school was mostly Asians, there was mostly Southeast Asians and then most of
them were Hmong and there's Hispanics, Latinos, Latinas, and then it was Hispanics and then Latinos and then Hmongs.
Roughly about the same amount, and stuff. Most of the teachers there were white.
>> Why do Hmong students go to college, why or why not?
>> I think a lot of the reason why Hmong students would go to college is because they want to provide a lot of support
for their family. Either financial support or they try to find some kind of support for their family to kind of uplift them to
a better class.
>> Do Hmong students have strong relationships with administrators and faculty?
>> I wouldn't say so. I feel like it's really dependent on person to person but think generally overall I wouldn't say so
that the Hmong population does not have a very strong tie with the faculty and staff.
>> Why do you think that's so?
>> I think that's kind of coming in to the whole like I don't really know but I feel like it revolves around like not asking
for help or not even knowing it's there. But definitely I feel like it's because they don't know that that's important.
>> Okay.
>> Or that that's something that they need, it's you're more reliant on, it's a lot of like layers I feel like it could possibly
be that they're more reliant on family, they don't really, but also on top of that I also feel like they're not trained nor are
they educated about that and which they have to go ahead and talk to their professors or the faculties and staff and really
try to form some kind of relationship early on. Until, growing up for me growing up I was never really taught to like hey
you should make relationships you should do networking. But even that, I was never really taught what networking
looks like, people would say work with people but never really taught you what networking is or why you need it, and
so-- I'm sorry what was that?
>> I just said excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Great. What is your favorite subject, what is your least favorite subject?
>> My favorite subject would probably have to be sociology for sure. Along with [inaudible], too. My least favorite
subject I would say it would be history.
>> History? Okay. What makes a good professor to you and what makes a bad professor to you?
>> I think a good professor for me is someone who really is willing to be engaged with you, someone who takes the
time to go ahead and talk to you and also someone who cares for you and also is forgiving. But definitely they believe in
you. I think that that's really important that a professor needs to have the ability to believe in you. And also the ability to
kind of see that you are struggling as a student and for them to make that approach instead of you making the approach.
I think a bad professor is someone who is just-- I don't know how to explain it it's just that like a bad professor has just
been really frustrating, they to me a bad professor is someone who has these kind of expectations of you to fulfill and
you don't fulfill them. And then it's just kind of like they're not working with you, they're working against you.
>> Okay.
>> Like they aren't helping you to, like for instance they will set an unrealistic expectation that everyone has to meet.
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And then when everyone fails it's kind of like well you should have studied harder. But it's like we can't, it's working
with that group of students and kind of figure out what can I do, what can I do to make sure that you all pass but still
learn. And so I feel like, so for instance like doing unrealistic tests and making, like being able to work with students to
being able to like you're working with the students and you change your test so that you make sure that your students are
learning and growing right versus making a test in which it's just really difficult for them to kind of meet. And setting
unrealistic expectations for writing a twenty page essay and making a due date the next day, something like that. I feel
like that's something like what some professors do. Yeah and I feel like, that's a very exaggerated example but,
sometimes I feel like that's what some of the professors do. Some of the great professors that I had in which I learned a
lot was the professors that just really pushed you, believes in you, and was able to go ahead and accommodate to you
with your life.
>> Have you ever been mentored?
>> I have not, not until just recently this past academic like year.
>> Okay, thinking back on your high school years what were the teacher expectations of you as a person, Shai?
>> Yeah, I feel like I had this expectation of me to be successful. To be->> Well what were the teacher expectations of you?
>> Right.
>> Like what did your college teachers think of you?
>> My teacher thought of me like that I was-- because I was very actively involved within my high school and so->> Oh.
>> Yeah and so that way, it's kind of like funny in a way where, it's kind of weird because like I'm so involved within
the whole community thing that like I feel like it [inaudible] in my academic life it's not as strong and sometimes some
people don't understand like that's like my teacher would kind of like it feels like it's like it doesn't relate. And so it's
kind of like you're doing so well with your clubs and stuff like that well I should be doing well academically and so
sometimes they feel like those two are supposed to relate and correlate, if you're doing well in life you shouldn't be
doing well in academics, so they have an expectation of me to be successful. And my academics have always been
struggling. A struggle for me, and so they have that expectation of me to be successful that I never ever could really
reach that point of what they want. And so they always used the term like it feels like you're shooting yourself in the
feet.
>> Ooh, okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Thinking back of your high school that you've talked about because it kind of relates, did you think your high school
prepared you well enough for college?
>> No.
>> In what way? Did they lack?
>> I feel like it has and it hasn't. For instance I think like essays and stuff like that I think it has prepared me to write
essays and you know but at the same time it hasn't prepared me to kind of get me to understand what studying is. Get me
to form the kind of academic habits that you would need to survive at a college level. Right and so I feel like it hasn't
prepared me like fully to go ahead and kind of study habits or academic habits that I need. But also I feel like it's not just
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high school that did not prepare me but I feel like my whole K through 12 did not prepare me just because like I feel like
elementary school has been so deprived of funds that we, I went to like Ewing and it cut me out of Ewing Elementary
School I didn't realize it was actually one of the lowest fund and the lowest scored school elementary school.
>> Oh.
>> And so, right, and so it was one of the lowest scoring and lowest funding elementary school and so it was hard for
me to like my whole like K to six was kind of like a also there was a lot of bullying so it was kind of like a blackout for
me. And so there was too much of like kind of like and so I kind of lack a lot of like basic skills I feel that was necessary
for me to be able to stack upon when I reached to the high school level. And so when I went to the high school level it
became a struggle for me because I needed the basic, like we haven't brushed up on basic, I was thankful because in
high school we brushed up on basics. We brushed up on basic kind of like English. So where do you put the commas,
when to use the S and apostrophes and stuff like that so those kind of things really helped and really kind of
like[inaudible] but those are things you should have learned when you were in like elementary.
>> Right.
>> Right, and so that's why it was kind of like hard for me.
>> That's a great point, that you had a big educational barrier and that you weren't prepared well enough through your K
through 12.
>> Right.
>> Thinking back from your kind of undergrad years as well as including your high school or K to 12 years, do you
think that you had any cultural barriers or financial or health or structural, any type of barrier that you can think about?
>> For sure, I think that if my parents had some kind of formal education I think they would have been able to help me
out a lot more. And talking with some of my other friends who were not talked to Asian, who were not Hmong or
whatever, they identify like more like white or they're parents have some kind of educational background, they were
able to help them out more and so I feel like that would have been helpful because I didn't have that, and so it was kind
of hard for me to do my work. But even then my parents didn't any formal education and so that way they didn't really
understand, they understand the education is important but they can't fully grasp it. And so that's why they like when I
didn't do some of my homework stuff like that, it wouldn't be, they understood it was important for me to do it but it
wasn't like they stressed very hard into it making sure that I was doing it, or like ways in which they could help me. So a
lot of the times I would cry a lot because my homework was really hard for me because I couldn't understand
homework.
>> That's a good point. In terms of cultural background do you think that your life would be easier or harder had you
been a female? Is it gender a possible barrier or no?
>> I want to say yes and I also want to say like no. Just because my family we grew up like, actually yeah I don't know.
I mean so like my parents, okay so for me, my parents gave up a lot on the Hmong culture just so that we could go
ahead and be able to focus onto our education, for instance playing a Hmong instrument, giving up on that part so we
could go ahead and focus on education. Having us learn about the culture so that we can go ahead and focus onto our
education. But even though my parents were so very traditional Shaman, they practice Shamanism.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Yeah so I feel like they still practice Shamanism but they also give up a little of some of the traditions so that way
we can go ahead and be able to focus onto our education. But I feel like that was for the boys, because the boys have to
learn the culture, the boys have to learn to play the instrument, and just kind of like and taking care of the family. So
really like those were kind of the things that my parents they wanted. And so it was kind of like those things were put on
us, on the boys and I feel like that was a lot of pressure for me. Even now my after my, just this year my grandpa passed
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away, there has been a lot of pressure on me specifically because my brothers they don't know the Hmong culture like I
do, how I am much more involved within the Hmong community.
>> Oh.
>> Yeah, and so me being president for the Hmong Student Association, me being involved so much with the Hmong
Student Association within the culture learning more and being interesting in all of the Hmong aspects of Shamanism
and stuff like that. Asking my dad like what tool this is, can you teach me? Say, some of the Shamanism like things,
some of the rituals, seeing some of the rituals and him teaching that to me instead of my brothers makes me feel like it
was a lot of pressure on me. But not only that, it's harder because I also identify as gay. My parents are conservative so
they don't accept that so it's kind of like they're putting this expectation onto me and hoping that I will be able to take
care of them when they're older. Only then to have, but I will tell them that I am gay, only for them to go ahead and
realize that oh I'm gay so they can't, even my mom mentioned it one time that everything that she has hoped for me and
have taken care of me was always good.
>> Oh, okay.
>> So yeah.
>> In a way do you think that there are positive aspects of Shamanism or your religion that kind of helps you in college
at all? I know there's a lot of expectation on you to take over for your family, is there any resilience at all having a
Shaman background in education or there's no correlation? It's kind of tricky because for one it has in some ways
because they do celebrate your big achievements like they will call the ancestors, so whenever you graduate from high
school it'll be up to you whether you want to or not and then like it would be up to your family. They would go ahead
and do a big celebration and they'll call the ancestors to go ahead and join us, so your ancestors would join you and your
family will join you->> Wow.
>> Yeah, right, and would celebrate you. A type of celebration to go ahead announce that you have graduated high
school or you have gained a bachelor or a PHD and so those are kind of like milestones that usually they do it for. They
do it for a high school graduation or they would do it for, and depending on how far you'll go in the education system,
like PHD for sure. So those are like the milestones. Usually they make a big party and then they do a big party and they
do a ceremony in which people would come over and they will a tie string for luck and blessing you into your future.
>> Wow. So you got that from when you graduated high school?
>> I did.
>> Wow. That's very amazing. Do you think that there's anything that I could ask you that hampers or any other barriers
that you might have had?
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>> Alright. This is part two of Shai Chang's interview. This is the last four questions of your inspiring story at
Fresno State. Many students actually don't graduate and you are a successful student in many ways because
you're the president of the Hmong Association, but also very active in the community. Looking back at your
personality you've gone through a lot of barriers because you indicated that your parents didn't' go or have
formal education. How come you made it? What is the personal thing about Shai; can you speak about Shai?
Why did-- Why are you so persistent?
>> So I feel like I have been very persistent and just because I have such a great support system from my
friends and from my family. Especially my family has been very educational focused so they have sacrificed a
lot for-- for me. I feel like that's kind of a great motivation for me to continue. And so they sacrifice a lot of
their time and also money just really to just go ahead and give me some kind of celebration whether it's like
small or big. And so->> Are you--?
>> On top of that I just feel like my friends have been great support of me, especially-- especially because
of Hmong Student Association I feel that that really helps me move forward and I'm really able to go ahead
and just really being able to progress into a more healthy environment for me. So I was just really
surrounded by more positive people and just really [inaudible] people who have really just really wanted to
see me succeed.
>> Great.
>> And so-- right, and so they have been really wanting to really give me resources that they think would
help [inaudible]. It's just kind of like-- so being at the Hmong Center Association was a really big help for me
and being a successful student.
>> Can you--?
>> Sometimes we'll coordinate study sessions together.
>> Oh.
>> Or like sometimes, you know, I will-- I will know someone from the Hmong Student Association is also
taking the same class as me.
>> Oh.
>> And so we'll take the same classes together and then we'll study together or like, you know, we'll find-or like they'll go ahead and give me like resources like oh hey Shai you should go to this conference, and so
that really helped me, right, and so that really helped me in kind of like understanding like where my future
is going because it's just kind of like I never really thought about my future until I joined HMSA. So, or I just
was interacting with people at a-- at an academic level.
>> Can you kind of give us the story how you became president?
>> Yes. So really like-- and being the president, like, it wasn't-- and so it was kind of by default just because
like nobody else ran against me so really I was the only one running, like I was really the only one running.
But like, kind of I was really the only one running and so I kind of won it by default, but it was also because
people were-- was encouraging me a lot. So like, you know, like they really saw me as being the president.
And it was also because I was the only-- I was the only-- because a lot of the members will have activated
by the time I came into my-- until my-- until my fourth year. And so-- and so into my fourth year no one else
with that experience or has been at the Hmong Student Association as long as I have.
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>> Oh wow.
>> And so-- mm-hmm.
>> What--?
>> So I was in it like all my-- ever since my freshman year.
>> Wow.
>> And so, yeah. So->> What is--?
>> Now my freshman year-- I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> Thinking back to your freshman year, what is the most-- what is the thing that you're most proud of in
terms of Hmong Student Association programming as president?
>> I think we definitely have come a long way and so I feel like it-- it was a really big change. I think when
I came in as a freshman it wasn't like we-- I was in a transition period with the Hmong Student Association
just because the people that was in there before they were a bit more, I wouldn't say conservative, but I
wouldn't say that they were open minded. But I would definitely say that they weren't very under-- they
definitely-- it was a different environment in which it was harder for younger, I would say especially for
myself to express myself within that environment, especially my own identities and kind of like rocking the
boat and trying to change things, like-- like especially trying to find solidarity, especially in the Hmong
community that increases solidarity with-- with other ethnic minorities and other->> Right.
>> Yeah, right. And so there wasn't a lot of kind of like understanding about the [inaudible] or even a lot of
like civic engagement. And so as the year went by my year I really wanted to focus on to having everyone
understand that civic engagement is really important, having solidarity with other people and supporting
other people besides just Hmong community is a really strong thing in making sure that everyone is-- only
the Hmong community is thriving and surviving and so-- and so it's becoming a very-- has become a very big
change and so the-- I would say the Hmong Student Association now has been really much more physically
engaged and much more willing to interact and so we want-- we went-- we went to the diversity dinner.
>> Okay.
>> Which-- in which the club that the most-- the club that has the most attendees will receive a pizza party
and so the Hmong Student Association won that.
>> Oh.
>> And so-- right, and it was at the end of the-- it was the year-- it was the end of the academic year,
which-- which everybody was really pushing for more-- more solidarity and everyone and so I really wanted
everyone to be supportive and so everyone showed up for that; everyone showed up for [inaudible] jam. It
was a lot of everyone showing like support and it has been a very-- it has been like a very big struggle but
definitely have come a long way, so.
>> Great.
>> Yeah.
>> As a student, student leader, tell me if you-- if these things matter to you, if you want them at all. Do
you want-- so I'm going to list these things. Do you want smaller classes?
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>> I'm sorry can you repeat that?
>> Do-- would you like smaller classes as a student or does it make any difference, this class size?
>> I don't think class size matters too much but I feel like the professor matters a lot.
>> Okay.
>> I have classes in which it was small classes but the professor wasn't-- wasn't really there for you and so
it just kind of gave me that disconnect in which like the professor was just really there for his own research,
their own research, and their-- their own interests and just came in-- like you know that they were hired just
to do research and hired to go ahead and teach, because you know, you can just tell how interested they
were or how much time they wanted to put in to you. And so that just was a very big turnoff for me.
>> Okay.
>> But I have been in classes in which it was-- it was a big lecture hall; it was like-- I think it was like 200
classes.
>> Oh wow.
>> In which-- yeah it was 200; it was a big lecture one and the professor was just-- it felt like the professor
was talking to you every time the professor talked.
>> Oh.
>> And the professor has just been very just like really wanting to see us succeed, and so like it was just a
math class too and so he would talk about like so you do this math so that way you can go ahead and be
able-- so he was relating math to kind of like just our real life.
>> Oh.
>> And so he would-- and so-- right, and so it was just like how this math is important for you to learn so
that you can learn how to do tax. I was like oh okay, I see.
>> Yeah.
>> And so-- right. It really felt like, you know, he was doing a lot to making sure that we were fixating past
the class. So, mm-hmm, and so see I have like been in both areas and I don't think it matters too much
about the class size but it matters a lot by the -- by the quality of the professor.
>> Good point. And then really you said to relate it to real life issues. What about co-ethnic professor, does
that make any difference?
>> Co-ethnic professors?
>> Well Asian professors; did you-- have you-- would you want more Asian professors or it makes no
difference?
>> Yeah. Okay for sure yes I want more Hmong professors here at Fresno State, like for reals, like I-- I'm a
sociology professor and I want to be-- I mean I'm not a sociology professor, I am a sociology student; I
want more sociology-- I want to be able-- I go-- I want to be able to the sociology department and ask
someone, hey I'm very interested in doing research within the Hmong community; does anyone here-- are
the Hmong or have they done research into the Hmong community and yes there have been people there
that have done research in the Hmong community but I just feel like it's another story when they have done
research or them also being Hmong. And so it's just-- I just feel like I want that person who I can connect
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with ethnically in understanding, like they understand like-- like immediately because not to just-- not to
[inaudible] anything, like they're really great, they're really understanding, but they're also-- but they're
white. And so I just feel like they don't really truly understand the struggles and conflict of racism and the
kind of oppressions that a Hmong person grows up with, that Hmong persons are faced with, and I feel like I
want someone who understands that, and the then go ahead and from there go ahead and support me and
saying like I see where you're going and I want to [inaudible] you and encourage and empower you to do
better.
>> And what about gender, does the gender matter; do you want Hmong male professor or does it not
matter?
>> Like if I get to choose I want someone who's like-- I want someone who's queer and Hmong because
I'm queer and Hmong and I just don't have anyone like that. But if anything I would want, I don't know,
that's kind of a bit tricky just because like the Hmong is kind of like patriarchal and so my experiences with
like Hmong professors that have been males have not been too well, but like individuals like Hmong
individuals who have been Hmong-- Hmong and females, like they have been more positive than-- they have
been more positive, just like they were much more encouraging and empowering of me, especially with my
own identities. And so I would say someone who is-- if I had to choose someone who is definitely for like-first Hmong and like non-binary or transgender like, you know, just really like being able to-- so like-- so
Hmong, being queer; if not then Hmong and female.
>> Okay. What about co-ethnics? Would you want more Hmong students or even more Hmong clubs?
>> I-- yes. I just feel like here like since I went over to UC Berkley and they had queer and Asian, a club
and it was like-- and it was very-- they also had like Hmong and they also had a big Southeast Asian club
and they also had like->> Oh wow.
>> And they also had like Cambodian. It was just like all the like-- so like it was like one big one and then it
broke up to different ones and it was like-- they all coexisted together. It wasn't like oh-- it wasn't like oh we
already have that kind of club here on campus, but it's totally-- it was like saying like if there was a
Southeast Asian club and you wanted to have a Hmong club and then it just feels like here at Fresno State it
feels like they would deny you of the Hmong club because there's a Southeast Asian club.
>> Interesting.
>> And right. It feels that way but it's very much that way and it just feels like-- like here at Fresno State I
just feel like because there is a Hmong club we can't make any other Hmong clubs because there's already
one already.
>> Oh okay.
>> Yeah. And so->> Yeah so you want more.
>> Mm-hmm. But what about the-- like why can't we make more Hmong clubs like why can't we make a
Hmong and queer club.
>> Yes.
>> We can only make a-- right, or like there has been even like right now me and my friend, you know,
we're going to be making a Hmong and research club.
>> Oh right.
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>> Right. Right and just because like we want to be [inaudible] and connect with each other at different
levels and I just feel like the Hmong-- the Hmong-- nothing to [inaudible] the Hmong Student Association
but it just feels like everyone always turns to that club for everything, everything that's Hmong related and
that's a lot of work and that's a-- so like I always feel like we were a student organization running at a
organization mode like at local organizational level.
>> Mm-hmm, definitely.
>> Right.
>> I also thought that as well.
>> Right.
>> You're doing big time work actually. Usually it's a whole job.
>> We're doing-- we're doing a conference, we're doing like-- we're doing like the whole thing like an
organization does, it's just like we don't get-- it's all volunteer work and it just feels like->> Yeah.
>> Yeah it's overwhelming sometimes, a lot. It's very overwhelming for a lot of our members, especially
officers, and so like yes why can't there be more like clubs here at Fresno State that are-- yes there are
more wonderful and like more Southeast Asian and because here at Fresno State there's such a big
Southeast Asian community and it just, yes I want that.
>> Great. Thank you. So now I'm going to ask you, before I ask you the very last question, is there
anything that you feel that Fresno State needs to have, like workshops or classes or anything? I mean so
right now this is the wants; what do you want at Fresno State to encourage the Southeast Asians to be
successful like yourself and to graduate, like what do you want, like--?
>> I don't really know where to go with this but I do know that I want to be able to say that Fresno-- this is
the goal of what I want to say; I want to have been able to say that Fresno State has helped me in being a
successful student.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> And I feel like I can't really say that.
>> Mm-hmm.
>> You know, I feel like->> So do you want a successful student workshop? What do you mean; what do you want?
>> Right. I feel like I want a not only successful student workshop but being able to-- I don't know exactly
but I do want to be able to say that-- I want to be able to say that Fresno State specifically has helped me
and really wanting to be-- and believing in me being and wanting me to be successful. But I can't really say
that because I just feel like whenever I'm asking for funding I feel like it's something I have to fight for.
Whenever I-- whenever I feel like I want something to-- I want something, I want something to change, I
want something to happen I just feel like there is no support for me to make that change, there is no
support of me to wanting to-- for something like that to happen. I just feel like our campus is apathetic,
which is not very interested in any civic engagement duties or not really interested in wanting to do more
[inaudible] climate, or just kind of like not very interested in wanting to be more supportive or showing
stronger solidarity or just being very interested in just showing up to the events. And I feel like even if we
were to say yes I want this workshop, I just feel like no one's going to show up to it. So I-- and that has
always been my experience, especially working on campus, and once we make events it's just kind of like
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this is a really good workshop for you to show up. No one-- and then like you're expecting-- I want
[inaudible] people there and only [inaudible] shows up, what does that show; what does that mean; what
does that say about Fresno State; what does that say about our student population here?
>> Is it that they're working and they can't make it; is that an issue?
>> I definitely think so for sure. There is, I don't know, I forgot where, but there has been research that
show that Fresno State is one of the schools in which like students work and also be a student at the same
time.
>> Right right.
>> So, and so I don't know exactly what we do need but I do know that there needs to be more support for
students.
>> Okay.
>> I think especially->> Should we bring the workshop to classes? I mean if you brought it to a class that's at least 45 people, so
is that a way to do it, or--?
>> Yeah. Yeah I think that would be a good way to do it.
>> Take it to a class. Okay, because they have to go to class.
>> Yeah. Right. Like yeah I agree. So like we should take it to the students.
>> Okay.
>> Maybe we should-- yes, I agree with that. I like that idea, yes. I think we should take it to the students
and we shouldn't wait for the students to come to us because I feel like yes we shouldn't let the students
come to us; I feel like we should go to the students.
>> Okay.
>> [inaudible], we should go to the students. I feel like we should- I think there was a discussion of kind of
like training students about like how to run an organization. Yes let's do that. Let's go ahead and bring them
like what to do to get more funding; why can't we do that? I think that there should be classes like that. I
think there should be workshops like that, like yeah.
>> If you-- definitely you can bring it to my class any time. Come to my entire class, 45 students will listen
to you, you know, with interest. Anything else; like is there any classes that you want to see, like just actual
classes, the name of classes, like as a soc-- as a soc major? Do you want any sociology of Southeast Asians
in Fresno class? What-- what do you-- what classes do you want?
>> Yes. More ethnic studies for sure, like I think [inaudible] like how important ethnic studies is into really
just being involved into like the whole ethnic community; it's just kind of like-- it's like-- I feel like because I
just feel like there's no-- there's not a lot of studies within the ethnic community and I just feel like there
should be a class about that. So yes there should be a sociology of African Americans or yes there should be
a sociology of Southeast Asians, you know, there should be a sociology of like all these-- of the [inaudible]
minority and talking about that, expanding on that, and not just bring it up and how does that effect you for
like one workshop, but like expanding upon that with research, expanding more about that with the whole
class like just like doing that for a whole week or so, you know. That's so much more different if we just get
up for one workshop for like an hour or for like 30 minutes, you know. So like talking about how like modern
minority myth within the Southeast Asian and how that affects Southeast Asians, kind of like bringing that up
and making that-- changing that, and really-- yeah and really just-- really empowering everyone and I feel
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like yes there should be a Southeast Asian sociology or Southeast Asian [inaudible] should be sociology of
like all the different-- because you know they will, a sociology for-- there was a sociology class for-- it was
oppression and race, you know, and stereotypes and stuff like that, but like that's-- and I just feel like that
doesn't go into depth of each area. Like it would-- each area was brought up, it wasn't very in depth and I
feel like each-- each one is so important that they should go in depth.
>> Right. That's a great point. Did I leave out anything to ask you for anything else that you want at Fresno
State; if not I'm going to move to the last question?
>> No I-- yeah, go ahead.
>> Okay, so as a student leader, as someone really important at Fresno State and in the Hmong community,
can you give any advice to the third or fourth generation who have the same struggles as you who will be
coming in who might want to, you know, drop out or, you know, not continue? Can you give them any
advice to why they should stay and graduate and why education is important?
>> I would say that-- hmm. Get involved.
>> Get involved. Definitely.
>> [inaudible] Yes. Like I would say->> Get involved, yes.
>> I would-- I would say challenge your own belief, I feel like that's something, or challenge everything, be
a critical thinker. Like be-- yeah I would say be a critical thinker. I would say that whenever you're struggling
ask for help.
>> Excellent.
>> Or if someone asks you for help don't judge. I know that a lot of times that they may be feeling like they
would be judged if they are asking for help, ask for help; it's so important. Know the resources on campus
that are there for you and don't be afraid to go in and asking for what specifically what you want. And I
would say that self-care is so important.
>> Go on.
>> Yeah I would say self-care is so important. I just feel like as a person who has gone through depression
and suicide and a lot of that because of school, because of how stressful it is I think it's so important for us
to go ahead and take a step back and reassess ourselves and really just think about what ways can I do
better; what ways can I go in and ask for help. But if-- yeah.
>> That is tremendously wonderful advice. Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay great. You know I love how you-- that was-- if every student did what you told them to do I think
they'd be very successful, so, and I loved-- I loved how you said pers-- taking care of yourself, that's-- that's
also very important. So all around great advice. So thank you Shai. I'm going to turn off the recorder now for
your interview.
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