Anonymous Laotian female interview
Item
Title
Anonymous Laotian female interview
Creator
Anonymous Laotian female
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00027
extracted text
>> Okay, so today I'm doing Central Valley Southeast Asians barriers and bridges for four-year graduation. Voices of
the Successful. And now, if you could give me verbal permission to interview you?
>> Yes, you have my permission to interview me.
>> Great. Okay. And you can [inaudible]. It doesn't matter.
>> Okay.
>> Alright, what is your ethnic group?
>> My ethnic group is Lao.
>> What is your undergraduate major?
>> My undergraduate major was English.
>> English? Okay. What is your generation in America?
>> One and a half.
>> One point five. Where were you born?
>> Laos.
>> Laos. What is your father and mother's [inaudible] highest education?
>> Well, it's not the same as it would be in America. In the way that elementary, high school, and college works. My
mom I believe graduated or finished about a third-grade level of education back in Laos. And then my dad was able to
go to college. I don't know if he finished, but he was able to be a teacher. So he, he had enough to be a teacher in Laos.
>> Great! What was your family composition?
>> Can you expand on that, compositions?
>> Mom, Dad, how many brothers and sisters?
>> Oh, okay. Well, so my mom and dad, and then they had four kids, and I'm the youngest of four.
>> Youngest, interesting.
>> Yeah. But I, my grandma, my dad's mom, my grandma lived with us all of our lives.
>> Okay.
>> So we, when I look, think of my family, it's really Mom, Dad, us four, and Grandma.
>> Graduate? Okay so with Grandma. For sure, that's what I mean.
>> Paternal grandma, yeah.
>> Paternal grandma.
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>> She just was always with us, you know. And just took care of us, and until -- I think about family, that's who I see.
>> Okay, excellent. What is your GPA?
>> Currently, I think it's really good and admirable, I believe. It's about a 3.8.
>> Oh gosh, that's excellent. What is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> I would like to complete my doctoral in education.
>> Okay, excellent. Okay. What is your social-economic background? Is it working class, middle, affluent? If you want
to look at the questions, they're ->> Oh, sure. Oh, no. I just wanted to, to make sure I was engaged with your question. I would say it's been a moving
scale as far as socio-economic label. I remember, growing up in Hawaii, and my parents farmed.
>> Oh, you grew up in Hawaii?
>> Well, we came to Illinois. The first stop was in Illinois for about three years. And it was the winters and the jobs. My
mom and dad, they went to adult school but they just couldn't break, you know, the factory work opportunities. So in
Hawaii, my mom had sisters who when they came from Laos moved, lived in Hawaii first. And they farmed. And so
farming was something that my parents knew and were comfortable doing. So we moved to Hawaii. Not just for
farming but for family. And my dad was able to get a job as a school janitor at a, at a private Hawaiian school. And my
mom was able to get two jobs, one was at a hula factory making hula skirts and instruments. And the other was her night
job. Food, food prep for the airlines. So my mom had two jobs, and my dad was the janitor at Hawaii Baptist Academy.
And -- and we farmed. So we, it just was more money-based opportunities in Hawaii. So at that time, we must have
been lower class. No, no, I take it back. In, when we came to Illinois, we were definitely on welfare. But my dad was
really determined to get off this system. I don't know why he felt that way. I don't know what made him think it wasn't
good enough. Except that he knew it wasn't where he wanted to be. So we, we were in Hawaii, I know that we weren't
on welfare anymore. Because my parents had so many jobs, and in Hawaii, definitely working class.
>> Okay, and then the high school, was it a public high school that you went or a private high school?
>> In Hawaii?
>> Did you go to high school in Hawaii or here?
>> Here.
>> Oh wow. Okay. How did you move here?
>> Okay, so then after Hawaii, my dad who was a janitor at this beautiful private school, he didn't see the public school
that we were going to as, as any way to get in, as any way to move forward. And he decided he was going to move to
California to the mainland because he had a cousin here in Fresno. Who was an adopted son to my grandma. So a
cousin/brother, almost. And in California my uncle said, "You should farm here. In fact, you can get more land for what
you get in Hawaii." Because of, you know, Hawaii, standard of living is really high. And in Fresno, it's really low. And
he says, "You could farm here and get a house."
>> Oh wow.
>> You can own your own house which is the ultimate American dream for my dad and mom. And do we moved from
Hawaii to California, Fresno. But before we did, my dad was able to get us enrolled in the private school for one
summer. Just to bridge that, he thought, gap. And it was the first time I had ever been exposed to real wealth. And I
didn't know it because those kids were just like any other kids. You know? And it was different. It was a different
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environment for me.
>> In Hawaii?
>> In Hawaii for one summer. Yeah, he enrolled all the kids into some sort of class just to be in a school. And we, that
was our first, I think, taste of ->> So sort of like parent activism? Excellent.
>> My dad was just, he, he was a teacher back at home. And you know he spoke French, he spoke [inaudible], he spoke
Thai, he spoke Hmong. And when he came to America, he learned English faster, I think, than maybe some of the ones
that came. And my mom was also really a good student. And she was also able to speak English faster. And I, so he, he
moved us to California just for -- they had more opportunities.
>> And then the high school you went to? What high school was it?
>> I graduated high school in '95 from Clovis High School.
>> Clovis? What, what is that?
>> So, yeah, yeah, no. So Clovis is a smaller town next to Fresno. And in 1988, when my sister started her senior year
in high school, I believe the only other Lao person that she knew was her brother.
>> Oh, okay.
>> There was a huge Hmong population.
>> Clovis High?
>> In Clovis High in '88.
>> Are there many Clovis Highs?
>> There is one Clovis High School which is the original high school in Clovis. Then there's Clovis West and Clovis
East and Buchanan, and Clovis North. And they're building Clovis South.
>> Oh, goodness! So there's five Clovis-es?
>> Yeah. So between 1988 when my sister entered high school to now, this, this town exploded and they had to create
more high schools.
>> Oh, who knew? And is that a private high school?
>> No, it's a public high school.
>> Interesting, okay. And so you, are -- you told me that the school was predominantly, you said, you didn't -- many
Lao?
>> Not Lao.
>> But you saw Hmong? Mostly Anglo?
>> Mostly Anglo. Maybe -- at '88, yeah, most Anglo.
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>> Okay.
>> A few others, whatever "others" are.
>> So why do Laos go to college? Why and why not?
>> Okay. I can't speak for the entire population. I can only speak for what happened in my family and maybe the people
around. Growing up for us college was just what [inaudible] want to do after high school. The culture was you're going
to go to school. The expectations weren't that you had to get straight A's or that you had to be any kind of profession for
my dad, my mom and dad. All they wanted, and I remember growing up, is go to school so that you can take care of
yourself. So that you can be productive. Really, be productive.
>> And did your siblings go to college?
>> Yes, so my sister was the first to go to college, and the first to complete college.
>> Was she -- she went here?
>> Yeah, to Fresno State. She was a psychology major, I believe, and now she's a elementary school teacher. And she
enjoys it, and she teaches in Fresno. My brother, my second one, he did go to college. I think he finished. I think he has
his Bachelor's degree in theater. My other brother didn't finish a four-year college. He did finish city college or
community college. And then I am working on my doctorate, so I was able to finish my Bachelor's and all that.
>> So your undergraduate in English?
>> Bachelor's is English. And Master's in education. And then hopefully a doctorate. It'll be in education.
>> Oh, for sure.
>> Why do we go to college? It's a prestige.
>> Prestige, okay.
>> Well, that's part of it. My parents were, "Be productive." That was number one. Number one was go to school so you
can be productive. You know? Whether it's the ->> To be productive.
>> To be productive, and that could be producing money. It could be producing just a meaningful life. But just be
productive. Don't be lazy. You know?
>> Okay. If you were to contrast, let's say, Laotians with -- should look at contrast to Southeast Asians, they have 12%,
but if you look at South Asians from India, they have a 70% graduation rate, the highest in the nation. Why do you think
there's a, why do you think the difference between the different Asian groups?
>> Well, when I think about Asians, I don't include South Asians at all in it.
>> Oh wow.
>> Although they make the dominant number of all those successes, they don't look like me. They don't eat my food.
They don't follow my religion. They are other. They don't at all, I don't feel connected to them at all.
>> Oh wow, interesting.
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>> And I don't know that they feel connected to me either. It's so different. They have a systematic education that's more
available, I think, to their people. I know that back in the old country, school is just a privilege. You know, to finish, to
even go to school was a privilege.
>> Can you speak of that?
>> Sure. What, from what I learned from my parents when I asked them about what their schooling was like, you know.
>> What is the schooling like there?
>> The entrance requirement for school isn't based on academics or acuity. It's, it's things like can you reach, with your
right arm, can you reach over your head and touch your ear?
>> Why would, why would that matter?
>> I don't know. Maybe motor schools, maybe. I don't think there's any science behind it. I think it's just something they
did. No idea, I don't know. And then the schools weren't divided by age. It, it was really just one room. And everyone
was taught sort of the same things. My dad was a teacher, and he was one of the first to have an electric fan in his house
which was a big deal, electricity. After the third grade, it, it follows the French school system a little bit, but it's so poor.
You know, to go to school means you have to go away from the farm.
>> Right.
>> So if you're away from the farm, who's going to farm it? Who's going to eat? Yeah, it's-- and that's what I know from
it, from my parents' background. I'm -- I don't know if it's changed. Maybe it's changed a lot. I don't know.
>> Interesting. What were, do Laos students have strong relationships with administration or faculty?
>> From what I know, I think ->> Lao-Americans.
>> Yeah, yeah. From what I know from my sister's sort of generation, you know, she's the first generation. It was, it was
relationships with professors that really helped them, motivate them, encourage them to complete college. My sister
speaks very highly of Dr. [inaudible] Howard, who was one of the first professors who really was able to bring
Southeast Asian students together. And she was their person. You know, she was their comfort. She was their advisor.
She was their teacher. And, and that ability for her to be genuinely empathetic to students really helped her, my sister
and her friends, finish school.
>> Interesting, and that was in the eighties?
>> Eighties.
>> Eighties, okay. First sort of wave.
>> First wave.
>> Okay.
>> And my sister, I just remember being in high school and her just talking about Dr. Howard. Dr. Howard this and Dr.
Howard that. And [inaudible] I met Dr. Howard through many functions as a kid going to their, her house for some
event for college or Fresno State. And I remember seeing a group full of my sister's friends. And thinking, "This is so
nice that they get to go over to a professor's house," you know? A big deal. Okay, so for my generation, the one-and-ahalf types, we didn't have that person.
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>> So she was the first generation?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> We didn't have that person. And I don't know that -- I can't say that I missed it because we were, we spoke English a
little better. We saw a group finish, so we were able to see that it could happen. I didn't make connections with the
Asian-American professors at Fresno State. I never took a class from Dr. Eng [assumed spelling]. Yeah, never. Not one.
I, it wasn't a choice. I don't think it was a conscious choice to stay away from him or anything. But I didn't see, I didn't
see my interest there.
>> So you didn't have the need?
>> I didn't have the need.
>> Okay.
[ Inaudible ]
I mean, did you need to be mentored? Did you want to be mentored?
>> My mentor came in the form of, of Victor Hansen. Who was a classics professor here when I was in college. So
when I started college, my goal was not math. Because I didn't enjoy math in high school.
>> It goes against the Asian stereotype.
>> Yeah, it just wasn't math, and not, not medicine either. I worked at a doctor's office, and I saw the medicine side. I
went, "Oh, no, this is not for me either." I worked in a surgeon's office as a file clerk. And I said, "No, no gallstones, no
telling a patient they have cancer," just doesn't, it is not where I want to spend my profession. I wanted to be an English
major because I liked reading. I liked stories and, and literature, and words and poetry. So I went into college to be an
English major. When I was almost done, I took a class from Victor Hansen, and it was a classics class, Roman history.
And the, the philosophy and the belief and the logical thinking, that appealed to me. And the, and that -- he was my
mentor. He was the one who said, "You know what? You should take Latin," you know? "You should challenge
yourself more." You know what? Have you considered this? Have you talked about that? And it just, it was a point of
view that I had not experienced until then.
>> Interesting. That's fascinating. Was he [inaudible] at all, or no?
>> No.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> He's Swede. [Laughter] I mean third generation farmer from Selma.
>> Interesting. In general, so would you say that the teacher expectations of you were pretty high? Because it seems like
someone's pushing you hard.
>> Oh, he definitely, he definitely said to me, "You are so much smarter than what you're performing."
>> But what about [inaudible] ethnics though? Or you don't know?
>> I don't remember. I don't. Well, let me take that back. I have one English professor named Dr. Chua [assumed
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spelling] and I believe he was Indonesian. I liked him because he was an English professor, but he talked about
literature. He was just, like a creative artist type. He spoke French, and so he had this point of view that just was
different and unique. And he, when he taught, he had a lot of joy in teaching. So I enjoyed his class for that. Yeah, those
are, those are the professors that I really liked. Dr. Bernthal [assumed spelling], he was an English professor also in
Shakespeare. The way he talked about Shakespeare was so relatable. So really the professors that I connected with were
ones that were joyful in their teaching. They, they were excited to share this information. And they, that's who I
connected with.
>> Interesting. Were there any notable media depictions of Lao Americans or Laotians in the media that you remember?
>> Specifically Lao Americans?
>> Um-hm, or Lao.
>> Or Lao? It-- growing up, or just now?
>> All the time, growing up.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Until now.
>> I ->> You can say no.
>> No, no. I, I remember one movie that had a, a spelling bee girl. But ->> I know. I can't know [inaudible].
>> That movie, what was that movie?
>> That was a huge movie!
>> Yes. And she wasn't Lao. I think she was Vietnamese.
>> I think she was, yes.
>> Okay. There's a spelling bee movie. Yeah, and that movie as a kid, it really resonated with me. The idea that she
came from another country. And her family lived in one room, and they were hiding food, like scenes that I remember.
Yeah, and yes, and like the idea that they were hiding food because they were scared that it would go away. And the
American host, hostess mom, host mom, sponsor mom, was like, "No, you don't have to. You can eat this food. You
don't have to save it." And then she becomes like a spelling bee champion. And I thought that that was so cool because
it just, it reminded me of my family. So I did do a spelling bee contest in Hawaii. I remember it very specifically. I
believe I was in the third grade. And my dad, a teacher said to me, "You should do the spelling bee contest." And I told
my dad, and he was like, okay. So I [inaudible] went to a swap meet, my mom bought me a new dress. It was pink.
>> Okay.
>> And my dad said, "If you win the spelling bee contest, I'll buy you an entire encyclopedia set."
>> Wow!
>> Yeah, it was a big deal.
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>> That is a big deal. They were very expensive
>> Yes. And I said, "Okay." I went three rounds. I lost on the word "envelope."
>> Envelope.
>> Because I spelled it with e-n-v-a-l instead of "v-e-l". And I lost in the third round, envelope. I have one picture. It's
cloudy, but I remember that day. My dad was so proud of me even though I didn't win. And he -- and it was a good day.
It was my first taste of competition.
>> Wow, academic and in English.
>> Academic and in English. And I remember standing in front of the microphone and putting my hands behind my
back like you're supposed to. And then spelling the word. I don't know, that's the spelling bee pose, I guess. Like, it's
like this. It's like this.
>> I do want to watch that movie.
>> I think it's so that you're not writing on your hands, so your hands are behind your back. So like nothing. So anyway,
that was a really cute movie. That movie really resonated with me, and I remember it as a, as an adult. But as far as
specifically Lao Americans. I don't. Except that horrible, horrible Gran Torino movie. I hated that movie.
>> I think it was on [inaudible].
>> Yeah, it was on [inaudible] and I hated that movie, hated. I felt it was stupid, just stupid. Which is really hurtful
because the advisors to the movie were people I knew.
>> Really?
>> Yeah, and I just thought exploitation and just it was, it -- I didn't like it. It just, I didn't like it.
>> I've never seen it but ->> Violent. It was violent. And I love Clint Eastwood! I love him as a, as a western-type role. I think the movie just
tried to put too much into in one movie, you know.
>> Okay. That's actually one-third of the interview's over. So now we're into barriers. But before that, asking the second
third which is barriers, [inaudible]. Do you think you were academically prepared by Clovis High School for college?
Were you academically ready?
>> No, because I remember specifically math was a, was a weak point. And I believe I took Math 1A at least three times
before I passed it to move onto like the next math.
>> Okay.
>> Every other area was fine, like English, science and history and all that was fine.
>> So you thought Clovis was fine.
>> Yeah, no, they did, they did a really good job teaching me how to be a student.
>> Be a student.
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>> Dress as a student. Be prepared. You know, have a notebook and pen. The culture, the student culture, Clovis High
did a fantastic job.
>> It's still [inaudible] right now?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Where is it located?
>> Like if this is Fresno State, literally like a minute away.
>> Wow, really close! Okay, so now did you have any barriers to your higher education success? And do you believe
other ethnics, co-ethnics had barriers to higher education success?
>> Educational success, barriers for me personally. No.
>> No. And did you graduate in four years or five or six years?
>> I started in '95. I went to [inaudible] for a year as I got into the honors program there. And then I transferred in '96.
So my thinking was well if I'm going to be at Fresno State, I might as well just transfer to Fresno State. The, the money,
I didn't think about. I think I had financial aid.
>> Okay, so you didn't have a financial barrier?
>> I didn't have a financial barrier. And then I graduated in 2000, so four years.
>> Okay, wow! Can you speak on how did you graduate in four years?
>> I took a lot -- thanks. I did, I didn't have a lot of AP units at all. It's expensive at the time to take an AP course. And
if you don't pass, you'd lose out on the money. I did take enough classes to have a few credits. I didn't enter as anything
but a freshman coming to Fresno State. I took a lot of units, and I remember specifically taking 22 units one semester
just to get done because I just wanted to get done.
>> Wow, that's a lot of classes.
>> That's a lot of classes.
>> But wasn't it a barrier to do so many classes?
>> No, and I worked part time.
>> Okay, and did you live at home?
>> I lived at home, I lived at home.
>> So your rent was covered.
>> Rent was covered.
>> Food?
>> Yeah, and I had a car. My mom gave me her car. After my sister finished with it, I got like the third passed down car.
>> Okay, [inaudible].
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>> It had three different -- It was free. It had three different shades of red. Only one door worked, you know. A crank.
>> Okay.
>> And, I was [inaudible], in that 22 unit semester, that was when I took the class with Dr. Hansen. And he said, "Why
are you taking all these units and you're just passing them? You should be excelling in them and not taking so much.
What is the point of education if all you're doing is collecting units? Did you learn anything?" And I just, I was stunned.
Because I thought, "I -- you're right. I don't learn anything. I just pass."
>> Okay.
>> And he said, "You need to rethink what education is."
>> Okay.
>> You know, you should look at education as an ability to assess things not just a collection of classes. And I just
thought, "Oh, my gosh, no one's ever talked to me."
>> Wow, that's amazing that you had such a very involved mentor.
>> Yeah, no, he just, he called me out on it. He really just called me out on it. And he would ask me things like, "What
did you learn? What do you think about this philosophy? What did you think about that author?" And I honestly, I
looked at him and thought, "I'm supposed to remember that stuff?" You know, I thought you just take the class and then
you just file it away. I didn't think you were supposed to remember anything that you were taught. Yeah, it was a
[inaudible]. It was a good, it was a good wake-up call. Barriers for other people. Motivation's a huge one, you know.
Why, why, why spend six years, four years in a college when you can just get a job?
>> Right, so do you think, if you're looking at gender, is that one, do you think that there's [inaudible]?
>> Oh, so huge, so huge. For men, it's so important to just earn money however it is. Hopefully it's a respectable job.
But you know college is so long and so expensive. How? Why? Why spend this much time.
>> Right, so the alternative [inaudible]?
>> Vocational schools you know or just something else.
>> Do you think there's any cultural barriers for Southeast Asian men? Why they don't graduate? So much more that
[inaudible] it's a very obvious --.
>> Yeah, yeah, it is. For, you know, for girls now, they, they have a lot more options. They're able, they're allowed to go
to school. They're able to go to school. And the pressure for girls to succeed is different than for men to succeed. The ->> In the Southeast Asian community?
>> Yeah, in, in the family that I, that I observe.
>> Okay. In your family there was more pressure for you, a Lao woman?
>> It was not for me because I was the youngest of four. By the time they got to me, they just figured I'd take care of
myself. For my sister it was a lot of pressure because she was the first. It wasn't because she was a girl or a boy. It was
because she was the first. And so everything she did was just an example to the rest of us.
>> So did your mom and dad pressure her or--?
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>> I remember her, yeah, I think my mom and dad were just wondering when she'd be finished. Now when are you
going to be finished? When are you going to be finished?
>> Did she do it in four?
>> I don't remember exactly how many years she had, but I remember her having heated debates and conversations
about, "You don't know what I'm doing. You don't know what I'm going through." And my mom and dad were like, "It
can't be that hard. It can't be that tough."
>> That cultural conflict with parents? Okay. Yeah. It must have been the hardest for her. First.
>> And she was the first, THE first. And so for us, it was like, that's college? All that fighting? All that? That's college?
That doesn't sound like a fun place to be. You know, because you're not getting along with your parents. It's taking so
long. My brothers' journey were different. They had, my dad died when I was 15.
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
>> Yeah so their, they were young adults, you know. And so I don't, I know it affected them. It affected me. But I don't
know, I don't know. You'd have to ask them.
>> Okay.
>> I'll give you their names. [Laughter]
>> Okay, for your sister, does she ever comment about it now at all?
>> She is amazing. She's amazing.
>> All the interviews I'm doing are not first gen. Everyone's at least [inaudible]. That's the minimum, but some are
second, even third. So I, I don't have any first gen. That would probably change my ->> Absolutely. [Inaudible]
>> Yeah, and they'd also have to be in their fifties. They're, like, kind of older.
>> She's amazing, and she remembered college being very difficult because of all the forms, you know. The financial
aid forms, the entrance forms. The forms.
>> That's like a barrier.
>> Ten page forms of nine-font things. You know?
>> But for you guys, the second, I mean not second. But the [inaudible] you already saw her do it. And so it's you're like
the fourth person to do it.
>> Yes, but you would think she'd help me. She didn't. She said, "I did it myself. You need to learn how to do it
yourself."
>> Oh, interesting.
>> And that was it. And I, I remember being in, I think high school or something. And I said to her, "I'm going to
remember this, that you didn't help me with, with this application. Because when you need help in your English class, I
am not going to help you." And I remember her coming to me, asking me to write her college essay, and I said no.
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>> Oh, interesting.
>> I know.
>> So actually, we don't have to talk about your sister, but you know, you can mention it. But you mentioned there's a
cultural kind of barrier, educational barrier, financial barrier, structural. Do you actually think that there's a -- and you
talk about gender barrier. Did you actually, were there any like, did you ever take care of any, like parents or kids at
home? Or children or grandparents?
>> I didn't, I didn't have ->> As the youngest, no?
>> Youngest, not so much. My grandma was still alive when I was in high school and college. And she didn't really
need a lot of taking care of. Because my mom worked part time at this point. And she was remarried so she had, you
know, support. And I didn't have the --. Well, we lived on a farm, so there was like animals to take care of. But I also
was able to have a job.
>> Did you farm?
>> I did not farm personally.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Yeah, my job as the youngest was to answer the phone if it rang.
>> Okay, oh, interesting.
>> I forgot about it.
>> You avoided the -[ Inaudible ]
Okay, so what there's actually like macroaggressions where like, you know, there's like the Clan like will burn kind of a
cross on your lawn. But so I'm not going to ask, I'm not going to ask about those things. But did you think that going
through college, do you ever expect a microaggressions defined as, you know, someone would see you. "Hey, where are
you from?"
>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Did that impact your education or no?
>> Sure. You know, my mom remarried when I was in college. I think, I think I was 18 or 19. And she married a
Caucasian man. As a, you know, 40, 50-year-old woman marrying, re-marrying a Caucasian man was a big deal just
culturally. So when I graduated high school, my stepdad attended my graduation. And my friend knew I wasn't half
white or white or any of those things. But they, the ones that didn't know would say something to my stepdad like, you
look like, your dad looks like you. And it was like, she can't, but thank you.
[ Laughter ]
It was kind of, it was funny, and George was a, was a wonderful man, wonderful stepdad. And he passed away a week
after my wedding. But I loved George. George was a fantastic man. He was a teacher, art teacher at Hoover. Okay, so
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the thing is in college, when I would talk about family, I would talk about my stepdad and my dad. You know, I would
say, "Oh, my dad, my real dad and my stepdad." Well, my stepdad was my dad in my young adulthood. So when friends
and family would see pictures, they're like, "Who's that white man?" I'm like, "That's my stepdad." So I, I did go
through microaggression with people and, you know, things like, "You're so whitewashed." Or "Oh, and you trying to
be Lao?" As if I'm not Lao, I'm trying to be Lao. People would say to me things like, "Oh, you speak Lao more now
because you're around more Lao people." And I just thought, "No, I've always spoken Lao."
>> How's your proficiency? Is it?
>> I'm fluent in it. I understand, I can speak it. I can't write it. I can't read it or write it. I would have lots of people
asking me things like, "No, where are you from, Laos? Is that like Hmong?" "No, we're different people." You know,
just trying to educate people in the differences. Although, now as an adult I'll say, well some are the same country, we're
just different ethnic groups, you know.
>> Okay, and then did you, so this is a question I ask for South Asians. What is your-- did you ask a lot of questions in
class? What is your kind of like feeling towards questions?
>> Oh, I asked so many questions in class. Asking questions of professors wasn't something that was scary for me.
However, I, I didn't ask questions just to show off. You know? Or ask questions just to, to take up time. I, I remember
listening to a professor and then it would come, whenever they said something that I thought, "I don't understand that,"
or "that's interesting." I would just jot it down and then think about it for a little bit for myself. See if I could find the
answers first or some sort of understanding. And if not, I would ask the professors really after class. Or if there's time in
class. If there's discussion time, you know? So yeah, asking questions wasn't really frightening.
>> Interesting, okay. What makes Fresno State a warm or chilly environment for you?
>> I love Fresno State. I, it's warm for me because of the fantastic professors that I've had here. You know, real
relationships that have lasted beyond the degree completion. And not because it's a forced or a policy-driven
relationship. In like you have to maintain contact with these people or else. It was a genuine shared philosophy or
authentic common, you know, commonality. I think Fresno State has one of the just an inviting, I think it's an inviting
environment. It just feels good to be here. You know? It's a, it's a beautiful campus. It's, it's getting there, you know.
There's always.
>> It's really nice.
>> Yeah! There's always, there's always maintenance happening to Fresno State. There's not a lot of neglect, you know?
And I think, I think it's a wonderful place to be. And every corner of this campus has some history or something
beautiful to look at. I believe that.
>> So the last part of the interview, I'm going to ask you [inaudible] questions.
>> Oh, can we talk about the chill part about Fresno State? Yeah, yeah, the one thing I do find sort of chilling or maybe
uninviting. And maybe this is because of my own-- the dorms. The dorms. Yeah, the dorms are on, you see them on
Shaw and Cedar. They're apart from the campus. And you look at the, the dorms, you know, that are sponsored by
Fresno State, that are on Fresno State campus. Whatever, that house them here. And then you look at across the way
towards the Save Mart Center with the beautiful modern apartments. I mean, if I were a college student needing to live
somewhere, I would choose those apartments over the dorms. The dorms are small and dark and, and they, they just
look very, they look dark. They're red brick and they're -- they don't look inviting. And to see that on Shaw and Cedar, I
don't know. They, they may want to convert that to something else.
>> So the dorms?
>> Yeah. Just check out the dorms. And you can go see them, they're just --.
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>> Dorms? Uninviting.
>> Yeah, just, they, they don't look good. And I've been in them. I had a friend who lived in the dorms.
>> Good to know.
>> Yeah. And they just, they're very military. It's like military feeling: functional
>> So now, and so you did so well in school, I guess we'll go into the last part, success. What were personal enablers to
your success? You talked about your dad. You talked about your stepdad. Also we, we could have answered it, or your
familial. But what about [inaudible]? Just your personal idea. What is it like [inaudible] because the [inaudible] small
[inaudible] graduation rate. What about your personality that made you graduate?
>> Absolutely. For right now, I married. I have two children, a 12 year old and an eight year old. And I had a fulltime
job, a high-demand fulltime job that I loved. And what stopped me from completing the doctoral degree within the three
years is all of the responsibilities, you know, outside of just being a student. Now, having said that. What really stopped
me from completing it is just I wanted to take time with my research dissertation. And I wanted to put care into it. And I
didn't want it to be the last thing on my priority list. I want it to be at least the top two. And something had to give, and it
had to be the, the fulltime job career that I was in for 16 years. Because I wanted to do something else. So what
motivates me is that something else.
>> Something else.
>> Yeah, I didn't, I've had so many deaths in my life. You know, my dad died when I was 15, and my stepdad died a
week after my wedding. It was horrible.
>> Yeah, sounds terrible. I'm sorry.
>> Oh, thank you. Yeah, no it was terrible. I loved them both very much and I remember them both very much. I just
thought life is so short, and it's so quick when it's over. I don't want to spend the next two minutes in, in a, in a just
robotic existence. Of if I just stop, if I stop and not finish my degree, it would be okay. It would be disappointing, but I
still have a job, I still have a family. I could continue on. However, if I give up this really safe and beautiful and really
secure job, career and pursue this doctorate degree, I could open. I am able to open up more. And then live a life that's
more meaningful. More meaningful, you know? To, to pursue this study that is so personal to me. And important. And
having the support.
>> And just be so helpful to so many people.
>> Yeah, and just, that impact, you know? That impact. I wanted to take my time, and I wanted to be careful with it
because I didn't want to do anyone any disservices. I didn't want to malign the people even, there's so much negative
press. There's so much negative perceptions out there about the Southeast Asian people. I didn't want to do a sloppy job
and add to that image. I wanted to study it logically and rationally and just present the information without maligning it.
Or pushing it into any way.
>> And then what is pushing you? Because it seems like you are a big advocate for South Asians. What is it about your- like why, why Southeast Asians? Why not Mexicans?
>> Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Why Southeast Asians. I think, I think what I see in the Southeast Asian
population, I speak very specifically about Lao-Americans.
[ Inaudible ]
It's that we are in this, this perfect existence where we're not the newest group in America anymore. However, we're at
this point in our existence in this country where we can influence this generation to be so much more successful. You
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know, the opportunity for education has never existed before. And to be here and to have that choice of going to college,
completing8 college, and then opening up your career into realms you've never even considered. Like this is the time to
make that impact. If we lose the one-and-a-half, or the second generation, you know, the population that's growing the
fastest. If we don't appeal to them to go to college, I'm afraid that it'd be so much harder to appeal to the third generation
or the fourth generation. And I, I want to see this population successful. I want all people to be successful, but this is the
one that, the newest one that we can push, and push forward.
>> That's great. If you think about kind of like bridges to higher education or your -- so I asked you earlier what the
barriers were, like cultural, educational, financial, structural, health. Why, why are there so many successful LaoAmericans like yourself who made it? Like what, what do you think that, what happened for them structurally,
culturally, financially? Why did they make it?
>> Oh man, why did they make it? Right? It's, it's that, it's that drive to -- I think to be the first is exciting.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, to be the first, to cross that finish line first and to say, "Oh, I was the first doctor, I was the first teacher, well I
was the first." And it would be true because it would be the first. Yeah, and then, in a, in a smaller, to be the first in the
family. So let's say someone else was already a doctor. That's okay, but I'll be the first in my family to do it.
>> Right.
>> That, that, the first -[ Inaudible ]
No, I wouldn't be the first. I would be the first in my family, yeah. So there's still that shiny star to grab to be the first.
Now the sec-- when I think about successful people, I think about those in careers and they are making a difference in
the community. It was also, I think it was just to help out a family, also. You know, if I get to this, then I can help my
family. I can be more appealing to the people outside of my community.
>> Actually, could you speak, I know you went to a Lao education. I would love to know the Lao education. If you
could tell us what, what was that thing about? And what, how, how did that impact you, and what was your opinion?
>> Gosh, it was, it was the first Lao-American conference, educational conference for students in high school and
middle school. It was the first, the first in 2017 for it to be the first. It was so beautiful to see a roomful of, of students,
you know, who were of -[ Inaudible ]
And of Lao-American students.
>> Yes, I was, I would love to know [inaudible].
>> It was, it was almost as if I couldn't believe it was real. We talk about getting together. We talk about educational
advocacy. But for it to actually happen with other people supporting it was -[ Inaudible ]
And he wasn't just there. But he was helping set up which is. He wasn't just a like a, like a shiny, shiny celebrity
spokesperson that came and went. He was there from the beginning to end. And he led the workshops. I don't know him.
I had never taken a class with him. I've met him a couple times. But I mean, people in the Lao community came and
supported it, you know. It was powerful. I was speechless. It was beautiful.
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>> I was getting, I was getting emotional.
>> Yeah. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. It was beautiful.
>> And what do you think the effect it will have on those little kids? They're babies.
>> Well, I, you know, one of them was a nephew of mine. A distant relative-type nephew, and I saw him last week. And
I said, "What did you think of the conference?" He goes, "Yeah it was good." Mind you, he's an eight, he's a seventh
grader. So you know they're not actually for [inaudible], but he was, "No, it was good." I said, "Would you go again
next year?" He goes, "Yeah," so it was ->> You have them ever year?
>> Yeah, I hope so. I hope so.
>> Every year? Oh my god.
>> Every year would be great. Every other year would be great. Every year would be great, too. It was beautiful. It was
beautiful.
>> I agree. Alright, okay, so do you think there's any community enablers that help Lao-Americans graduate such as
church or dance groups or cultural groups or friends? You got through. Has -- your story's very familial. Activist dad,
you know. But are there anything in the community? I mean, now, 2017, that we both went to the Lao, I mean. When
you're growing up from one to 18, did you do any community events that helped? Pushed?
>> No, one to 18 community events? I don't, I don't want to insult anyone by forgetting, you know. Maybe something
did happen and I forgot about it. But if I forgot about it, then it didn't really impact me. So I cannot recall any church,
church or temple or community events that encouraged me or motivated me to move on. It was all, it was more of
family push. And professor push. And friends, environment. You know, that sort of thing, yeah.
>> So this is the last part. I'm just going to ask you what do you want at Fresno State?
>> What do I want Fresno State?
>> To help graduation, [inaudible] four-year graduation. Which you did four-year which is amazing. So what are, what
are the things? Just name it down the line.
>> I would love, would love for the Southeast Asian students to have a building or an office or a classroom dedicated
purely for Southeast Asian students.
>> Building, some office?
>> Just a physical space that's more permanent, you know? A permanent physical space.
>> Okay. Space. We [inaudible] have a cultural center. It's like a little room, but.
>> Where?
>> I think they just opened a cross-cultural center. But it's a little room it's not, it's shared with other people.
>> Yeah, no.
>> You want a [inaudible]?
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>> Yes. Because what we're asking for are students that come in to ask for help and it's got to be an environment they
feel welcomed. And if it says, "Cultural Awareness," that sounds to me like, like, am I going to learn who I am?
Cultural Awareness, I'm going to be aware of my culture. You know? It just, clearly labeled that, you know Southeast
Asians. This is where you can come in for academic help or financial aid help.
>> So clearly labeled?
>> Yeah, make it obvious and.
>> Southeast Asians.
>> Visible, you know, not tucked into, I don't know, a portable somewhere.
>> Anything else? Classes? Workshops?
>> I don't know about classes and workshops. It might be more -- because all the studies say you know the first year
support is great. But what about that second year or third year or fourth year?
>> So you, do you want second year support?
>> It's, it should, I wouldn't even -- how about continual support? Instead of just first or second year, you know, it could
be something like undergraduate services here, or graduate services here. Career networking here.
>> Networking, okay. So you want career networking?
>> Yeah, internships. As soon as, when a student identifies a major of interest, connect that kid, student. Hey! You're
interested in becoming a doctor? How about these volunteer opportunities at hospitals. Here is some internships in a
dentist office. Here shadow some lawyer somewhere. Shadow a teacher somewhere. Shadow an entrepreneur
somewhere.
>> Okay, and then what about if, let's say, for yourself, you go onto teaching. Will you mentor? Did they push you into?
What did you do --?
>> The teaching was because my dad was a teacher, my, my stepdad was a teacher.
>> Your sister is a teacher.
>> My sister is a teacher.
>> But will you, anything at Fresno State that helped you being a teacher? Like did you?
>> Yeah, I did the credentialing program but that was after the degree. But. And that was just, not that it, it was just
what you were supposed to do. You know, if you want to become a teacher, go to the credentialing program.
>> Okay, but then how did you get the job?
>> At University High School? My professor, Victor Hansen, was on the hiring committee.
>> Oh, okay. So that's great.
>> Yeah, no. That's what I mean when I say professors with, who invest in you. You know, he wasn't just my classroom
teacher. He really cared about what I was going to do with this degree. He really, like, he really was like, "Okay, so
great. Now you have a shiny degree. What are you going to do with it?" And he helped. He said, "Alright, hey, here's a
job opening. You know, come apply. I can't guarantee you the job. There's other applicants, but apply." You know, it's
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that.
>> He pushed you to apply [inaudible].
>> Yeah, it's that sort of connection. It's that sort of interest, you know.
>> Okay, anything else you want at Fresno State?
>> Okay, so I want a physical space.
>> Physical space for sure.
>> Sort of a, not just first year and second year help, support, but through. Continual. Continual support. Career
networking, that internships. Or volunteer opportunities. Anything to connect the student to their actual career choice.
>> Volunteer opportunities.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Before they finish their degree.
>> Before.
>> Absolutely.
>> What about after?
>> Well, afterwards, it, it could be, you know, reaching out to places that hire. Let's say a person wants to become a
psychologist.
[ Inaudible ]
Yeah, after they graduate. I mean, by that time I'm hoping students are networking and connecting as they go. You
know who goes a great job historically about that are fraternities and sororities. They do an excellent job networking. I
don't know how that works. I was never in a sorority or fraternity. But there's something to be said about alumni, you
know, alumni. There are no contact.
>> Okay, so alumni.
>> Relationships.
>> Okay, is there a Lao-American alumni [inaudible]?
>> I don't think so.
>> You should create it. You should get on Facebook, and you'll get interviews. There's a big, long alumni actually. It's
pretty big, and they, they, they communicate. They're having a, a wine tasting this week. [Laughter]
>> I don't drink wine. But yeah, I'm sure a lot of people do. All these things that take time. And see, I, I don't know that
I'm good at that stuff. Does that make sense? Like I, to -- I don't know if I'm good at that stuff. I don't know.
>> Okay, that is it. Is there any questions that you, that you'd -- or any comments that you'd like to add. Do you think I
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should have asked you anything else? Or do you want to comment on anything else that wasn't mentioned as a, a barrier
or a bridge to four-year graduation?
>> Gosh, I, when I look at the students entering college now. You know, my nephews, and my nieces, they are, they're
definitely disconnected. I would like for them to feel more connected. To not, the college necessarily, but to what they're
doing. It's, a lot of them have graduated which I'm really proud of. And I hope they're able to find their careers, but
maybe not see college as a rush. You know, like I know you mentioned that four year? But in those four years for them
to, to remember what they're learning. You know, like my wake up was maybe six year or four years too late. But the
idea of that don't just go through it for four years. That shouldn't be the prize, but to really be educated. Take classes that
educate you, not just to get to a degree. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah, it totally makes sense.
>> Okay. It, it's -- I know in four years is very important, but they need to learn. They need to educate themselves.
Think rational, you know, problem solving, real-life application. Not just rush through it to get to it.
>> Okay, great. Okay, so thank you so much for your time.
>> Oh, you're welcome.
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the Successful. And now, if you could give me verbal permission to interview you?
>> Yes, you have my permission to interview me.
>> Great. Okay. And you can [inaudible]. It doesn't matter.
>> Okay.
>> Alright, what is your ethnic group?
>> My ethnic group is Lao.
>> What is your undergraduate major?
>> My undergraduate major was English.
>> English? Okay. What is your generation in America?
>> One and a half.
>> One point five. Where were you born?
>> Laos.
>> Laos. What is your father and mother's [inaudible] highest education?
>> Well, it's not the same as it would be in America. In the way that elementary, high school, and college works. My
mom I believe graduated or finished about a third-grade level of education back in Laos. And then my dad was able to
go to college. I don't know if he finished, but he was able to be a teacher. So he, he had enough to be a teacher in Laos.
>> Great! What was your family composition?
>> Can you expand on that, compositions?
>> Mom, Dad, how many brothers and sisters?
>> Oh, okay. Well, so my mom and dad, and then they had four kids, and I'm the youngest of four.
>> Youngest, interesting.
>> Yeah. But I, my grandma, my dad's mom, my grandma lived with us all of our lives.
>> Okay.
>> So we, when I look, think of my family, it's really Mom, Dad, us four, and Grandma.
>> Graduate? Okay so with Grandma. For sure, that's what I mean.
>> Paternal grandma, yeah.
>> Paternal grandma.
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>> She just was always with us, you know. And just took care of us, and until -- I think about family, that's who I see.
>> Okay, excellent. What is your GPA?
>> Currently, I think it's really good and admirable, I believe. It's about a 3.8.
>> Oh gosh, that's excellent. What is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> I would like to complete my doctoral in education.
>> Okay, excellent. Okay. What is your social-economic background? Is it working class, middle, affluent? If you want
to look at the questions, they're ->> Oh, sure. Oh, no. I just wanted to, to make sure I was engaged with your question. I would say it's been a moving
scale as far as socio-economic label. I remember, growing up in Hawaii, and my parents farmed.
>> Oh, you grew up in Hawaii?
>> Well, we came to Illinois. The first stop was in Illinois for about three years. And it was the winters and the jobs. My
mom and dad, they went to adult school but they just couldn't break, you know, the factory work opportunities. So in
Hawaii, my mom had sisters who when they came from Laos moved, lived in Hawaii first. And they farmed. And so
farming was something that my parents knew and were comfortable doing. So we moved to Hawaii. Not just for
farming but for family. And my dad was able to get a job as a school janitor at a, at a private Hawaiian school. And my
mom was able to get two jobs, one was at a hula factory making hula skirts and instruments. And the other was her night
job. Food, food prep for the airlines. So my mom had two jobs, and my dad was the janitor at Hawaii Baptist Academy.
And -- and we farmed. So we, it just was more money-based opportunities in Hawaii. So at that time, we must have
been lower class. No, no, I take it back. In, when we came to Illinois, we were definitely on welfare. But my dad was
really determined to get off this system. I don't know why he felt that way. I don't know what made him think it wasn't
good enough. Except that he knew it wasn't where he wanted to be. So we, we were in Hawaii, I know that we weren't
on welfare anymore. Because my parents had so many jobs, and in Hawaii, definitely working class.
>> Okay, and then the high school, was it a public high school that you went or a private high school?
>> In Hawaii?
>> Did you go to high school in Hawaii or here?
>> Here.
>> Oh wow. Okay. How did you move here?
>> Okay, so then after Hawaii, my dad who was a janitor at this beautiful private school, he didn't see the public school
that we were going to as, as any way to get in, as any way to move forward. And he decided he was going to move to
California to the mainland because he had a cousin here in Fresno. Who was an adopted son to my grandma. So a
cousin/brother, almost. And in California my uncle said, "You should farm here. In fact, you can get more land for what
you get in Hawaii." Because of, you know, Hawaii, standard of living is really high. And in Fresno, it's really low. And
he says, "You could farm here and get a house."
>> Oh wow.
>> You can own your own house which is the ultimate American dream for my dad and mom. And do we moved from
Hawaii to California, Fresno. But before we did, my dad was able to get us enrolled in the private school for one
summer. Just to bridge that, he thought, gap. And it was the first time I had ever been exposed to real wealth. And I
didn't know it because those kids were just like any other kids. You know? And it was different. It was a different
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environment for me.
>> In Hawaii?
>> In Hawaii for one summer. Yeah, he enrolled all the kids into some sort of class just to be in a school. And we, that
was our first, I think, taste of ->> So sort of like parent activism? Excellent.
>> My dad was just, he, he was a teacher back at home. And you know he spoke French, he spoke [inaudible], he spoke
Thai, he spoke Hmong. And when he came to America, he learned English faster, I think, than maybe some of the ones
that came. And my mom was also really a good student. And she was also able to speak English faster. And I, so he, he
moved us to California just for -- they had more opportunities.
>> And then the high school you went to? What high school was it?
>> I graduated high school in '95 from Clovis High School.
>> Clovis? What, what is that?
>> So, yeah, yeah, no. So Clovis is a smaller town next to Fresno. And in 1988, when my sister started her senior year
in high school, I believe the only other Lao person that she knew was her brother.
>> Oh, okay.
>> There was a huge Hmong population.
>> Clovis High?
>> In Clovis High in '88.
>> Are there many Clovis Highs?
>> There is one Clovis High School which is the original high school in Clovis. Then there's Clovis West and Clovis
East and Buchanan, and Clovis North. And they're building Clovis South.
>> Oh, goodness! So there's five Clovis-es?
>> Yeah. So between 1988 when my sister entered high school to now, this, this town exploded and they had to create
more high schools.
>> Oh, who knew? And is that a private high school?
>> No, it's a public high school.
>> Interesting, okay. And so you, are -- you told me that the school was predominantly, you said, you didn't -- many
Lao?
>> Not Lao.
>> But you saw Hmong? Mostly Anglo?
>> Mostly Anglo. Maybe -- at '88, yeah, most Anglo.
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>> Okay.
>> A few others, whatever "others" are.
>> So why do Laos go to college? Why and why not?
>> Okay. I can't speak for the entire population. I can only speak for what happened in my family and maybe the people
around. Growing up for us college was just what [inaudible] want to do after high school. The culture was you're going
to go to school. The expectations weren't that you had to get straight A's or that you had to be any kind of profession for
my dad, my mom and dad. All they wanted, and I remember growing up, is go to school so that you can take care of
yourself. So that you can be productive. Really, be productive.
>> And did your siblings go to college?
>> Yes, so my sister was the first to go to college, and the first to complete college.
>> Was she -- she went here?
>> Yeah, to Fresno State. She was a psychology major, I believe, and now she's a elementary school teacher. And she
enjoys it, and she teaches in Fresno. My brother, my second one, he did go to college. I think he finished. I think he has
his Bachelor's degree in theater. My other brother didn't finish a four-year college. He did finish city college or
community college. And then I am working on my doctorate, so I was able to finish my Bachelor's and all that.
>> So your undergraduate in English?
>> Bachelor's is English. And Master's in education. And then hopefully a doctorate. It'll be in education.
>> Oh, for sure.
>> Why do we go to college? It's a prestige.
>> Prestige, okay.
>> Well, that's part of it. My parents were, "Be productive." That was number one. Number one was go to school so you
can be productive. You know? Whether it's the ->> To be productive.
>> To be productive, and that could be producing money. It could be producing just a meaningful life. But just be
productive. Don't be lazy. You know?
>> Okay. If you were to contrast, let's say, Laotians with -- should look at contrast to Southeast Asians, they have 12%,
but if you look at South Asians from India, they have a 70% graduation rate, the highest in the nation. Why do you think
there's a, why do you think the difference between the different Asian groups?
>> Well, when I think about Asians, I don't include South Asians at all in it.
>> Oh wow.
>> Although they make the dominant number of all those successes, they don't look like me. They don't eat my food.
They don't follow my religion. They are other. They don't at all, I don't feel connected to them at all.
>> Oh wow, interesting.
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>> And I don't know that they feel connected to me either. It's so different. They have a systematic education that's more
available, I think, to their people. I know that back in the old country, school is just a privilege. You know, to finish, to
even go to school was a privilege.
>> Can you speak of that?
>> Sure. What, from what I learned from my parents when I asked them about what their schooling was like, you know.
>> What is the schooling like there?
>> The entrance requirement for school isn't based on academics or acuity. It's, it's things like can you reach, with your
right arm, can you reach over your head and touch your ear?
>> Why would, why would that matter?
>> I don't know. Maybe motor schools, maybe. I don't think there's any science behind it. I think it's just something they
did. No idea, I don't know. And then the schools weren't divided by age. It, it was really just one room. And everyone
was taught sort of the same things. My dad was a teacher, and he was one of the first to have an electric fan in his house
which was a big deal, electricity. After the third grade, it, it follows the French school system a little bit, but it's so poor.
You know, to go to school means you have to go away from the farm.
>> Right.
>> So if you're away from the farm, who's going to farm it? Who's going to eat? Yeah, it's-- and that's what I know from
it, from my parents' background. I'm -- I don't know if it's changed. Maybe it's changed a lot. I don't know.
>> Interesting. What were, do Laos students have strong relationships with administration or faculty?
>> From what I know, I think ->> Lao-Americans.
>> Yeah, yeah. From what I know from my sister's sort of generation, you know, she's the first generation. It was, it was
relationships with professors that really helped them, motivate them, encourage them to complete college. My sister
speaks very highly of Dr. [inaudible] Howard, who was one of the first professors who really was able to bring
Southeast Asian students together. And she was their person. You know, she was their comfort. She was their advisor.
She was their teacher. And, and that ability for her to be genuinely empathetic to students really helped her, my sister
and her friends, finish school.
>> Interesting, and that was in the eighties?
>> Eighties.
>> Eighties, okay. First sort of wave.
>> First wave.
>> Okay.
>> And my sister, I just remember being in high school and her just talking about Dr. Howard. Dr. Howard this and Dr.
Howard that. And [inaudible] I met Dr. Howard through many functions as a kid going to their, her house for some
event for college or Fresno State. And I remember seeing a group full of my sister's friends. And thinking, "This is so
nice that they get to go over to a professor's house," you know? A big deal. Okay, so for my generation, the one-and-ahalf types, we didn't have that person.
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>> So she was the first generation?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> We didn't have that person. And I don't know that -- I can't say that I missed it because we were, we spoke English a
little better. We saw a group finish, so we were able to see that it could happen. I didn't make connections with the
Asian-American professors at Fresno State. I never took a class from Dr. Eng [assumed spelling]. Yeah, never. Not one.
I, it wasn't a choice. I don't think it was a conscious choice to stay away from him or anything. But I didn't see, I didn't
see my interest there.
>> So you didn't have the need?
>> I didn't have the need.
>> Okay.
[ Inaudible ]
I mean, did you need to be mentored? Did you want to be mentored?
>> My mentor came in the form of, of Victor Hansen. Who was a classics professor here when I was in college. So
when I started college, my goal was not math. Because I didn't enjoy math in high school.
>> It goes against the Asian stereotype.
>> Yeah, it just wasn't math, and not, not medicine either. I worked at a doctor's office, and I saw the medicine side. I
went, "Oh, no, this is not for me either." I worked in a surgeon's office as a file clerk. And I said, "No, no gallstones, no
telling a patient they have cancer," just doesn't, it is not where I want to spend my profession. I wanted to be an English
major because I liked reading. I liked stories and, and literature, and words and poetry. So I went into college to be an
English major. When I was almost done, I took a class from Victor Hansen, and it was a classics class, Roman history.
And the, the philosophy and the belief and the logical thinking, that appealed to me. And the, and that -- he was my
mentor. He was the one who said, "You know what? You should take Latin," you know? "You should challenge
yourself more." You know what? Have you considered this? Have you talked about that? And it just, it was a point of
view that I had not experienced until then.
>> Interesting. That's fascinating. Was he [inaudible] at all, or no?
>> No.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> He's Swede. [Laughter] I mean third generation farmer from Selma.
>> Interesting. In general, so would you say that the teacher expectations of you were pretty high? Because it seems like
someone's pushing you hard.
>> Oh, he definitely, he definitely said to me, "You are so much smarter than what you're performing."
>> But what about [inaudible] ethnics though? Or you don't know?
>> I don't remember. I don't. Well, let me take that back. I have one English professor named Dr. Chua [assumed
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spelling] and I believe he was Indonesian. I liked him because he was an English professor, but he talked about
literature. He was just, like a creative artist type. He spoke French, and so he had this point of view that just was
different and unique. And he, when he taught, he had a lot of joy in teaching. So I enjoyed his class for that. Yeah, those
are, those are the professors that I really liked. Dr. Bernthal [assumed spelling], he was an English professor also in
Shakespeare. The way he talked about Shakespeare was so relatable. So really the professors that I connected with were
ones that were joyful in their teaching. They, they were excited to share this information. And they, that's who I
connected with.
>> Interesting. Were there any notable media depictions of Lao Americans or Laotians in the media that you remember?
>> Specifically Lao Americans?
>> Um-hm, or Lao.
>> Or Lao? It-- growing up, or just now?
>> All the time, growing up.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> Until now.
>> I ->> You can say no.
>> No, no. I, I remember one movie that had a, a spelling bee girl. But ->> I know. I can't know [inaudible].
>> That movie, what was that movie?
>> That was a huge movie!
>> Yes. And she wasn't Lao. I think she was Vietnamese.
>> I think she was, yes.
>> Okay. There's a spelling bee movie. Yeah, and that movie as a kid, it really resonated with me. The idea that she
came from another country. And her family lived in one room, and they were hiding food, like scenes that I remember.
Yeah, and yes, and like the idea that they were hiding food because they were scared that it would go away. And the
American host, hostess mom, host mom, sponsor mom, was like, "No, you don't have to. You can eat this food. You
don't have to save it." And then she becomes like a spelling bee champion. And I thought that that was so cool because
it just, it reminded me of my family. So I did do a spelling bee contest in Hawaii. I remember it very specifically. I
believe I was in the third grade. And my dad, a teacher said to me, "You should do the spelling bee contest." And I told
my dad, and he was like, okay. So I [inaudible] went to a swap meet, my mom bought me a new dress. It was pink.
>> Okay.
>> And my dad said, "If you win the spelling bee contest, I'll buy you an entire encyclopedia set."
>> Wow!
>> Yeah, it was a big deal.
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>> That is a big deal. They were very expensive
>> Yes. And I said, "Okay." I went three rounds. I lost on the word "envelope."
>> Envelope.
>> Because I spelled it with e-n-v-a-l instead of "v-e-l". And I lost in the third round, envelope. I have one picture. It's
cloudy, but I remember that day. My dad was so proud of me even though I didn't win. And he -- and it was a good day.
It was my first taste of competition.
>> Wow, academic and in English.
>> Academic and in English. And I remember standing in front of the microphone and putting my hands behind my
back like you're supposed to. And then spelling the word. I don't know, that's the spelling bee pose, I guess. Like, it's
like this. It's like this.
>> I do want to watch that movie.
>> I think it's so that you're not writing on your hands, so your hands are behind your back. So like nothing. So anyway,
that was a really cute movie. That movie really resonated with me, and I remember it as a, as an adult. But as far as
specifically Lao Americans. I don't. Except that horrible, horrible Gran Torino movie. I hated that movie.
>> I think it was on [inaudible].
>> Yeah, it was on [inaudible] and I hated that movie, hated. I felt it was stupid, just stupid. Which is really hurtful
because the advisors to the movie were people I knew.
>> Really?
>> Yeah, and I just thought exploitation and just it was, it -- I didn't like it. It just, I didn't like it.
>> I've never seen it but ->> Violent. It was violent. And I love Clint Eastwood! I love him as a, as a western-type role. I think the movie just
tried to put too much into in one movie, you know.
>> Okay. That's actually one-third of the interview's over. So now we're into barriers. But before that, asking the second
third which is barriers, [inaudible]. Do you think you were academically prepared by Clovis High School for college?
Were you academically ready?
>> No, because I remember specifically math was a, was a weak point. And I believe I took Math 1A at least three times
before I passed it to move onto like the next math.
>> Okay.
>> Every other area was fine, like English, science and history and all that was fine.
>> So you thought Clovis was fine.
>> Yeah, no, they did, they did a really good job teaching me how to be a student.
>> Be a student.
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>> Dress as a student. Be prepared. You know, have a notebook and pen. The culture, the student culture, Clovis High
did a fantastic job.
>> It's still [inaudible] right now?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Where is it located?
>> Like if this is Fresno State, literally like a minute away.
>> Wow, really close! Okay, so now did you have any barriers to your higher education success? And do you believe
other ethnics, co-ethnics had barriers to higher education success?
>> Educational success, barriers for me personally. No.
>> No. And did you graduate in four years or five or six years?
>> I started in '95. I went to [inaudible] for a year as I got into the honors program there. And then I transferred in '96.
So my thinking was well if I'm going to be at Fresno State, I might as well just transfer to Fresno State. The, the money,
I didn't think about. I think I had financial aid.
>> Okay, so you didn't have a financial barrier?
>> I didn't have a financial barrier. And then I graduated in 2000, so four years.
>> Okay, wow! Can you speak on how did you graduate in four years?
>> I took a lot -- thanks. I did, I didn't have a lot of AP units at all. It's expensive at the time to take an AP course. And
if you don't pass, you'd lose out on the money. I did take enough classes to have a few credits. I didn't enter as anything
but a freshman coming to Fresno State. I took a lot of units, and I remember specifically taking 22 units one semester
just to get done because I just wanted to get done.
>> Wow, that's a lot of classes.
>> That's a lot of classes.
>> But wasn't it a barrier to do so many classes?
>> No, and I worked part time.
>> Okay, and did you live at home?
>> I lived at home, I lived at home.
>> So your rent was covered.
>> Rent was covered.
>> Food?
>> Yeah, and I had a car. My mom gave me her car. After my sister finished with it, I got like the third passed down car.
>> Okay, [inaudible].
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>> It had three different -- It was free. It had three different shades of red. Only one door worked, you know. A crank.
>> Okay.
>> And, I was [inaudible], in that 22 unit semester, that was when I took the class with Dr. Hansen. And he said, "Why
are you taking all these units and you're just passing them? You should be excelling in them and not taking so much.
What is the point of education if all you're doing is collecting units? Did you learn anything?" And I just, I was stunned.
Because I thought, "I -- you're right. I don't learn anything. I just pass."
>> Okay.
>> And he said, "You need to rethink what education is."
>> Okay.
>> You know, you should look at education as an ability to assess things not just a collection of classes. And I just
thought, "Oh, my gosh, no one's ever talked to me."
>> Wow, that's amazing that you had such a very involved mentor.
>> Yeah, no, he just, he called me out on it. He really just called me out on it. And he would ask me things like, "What
did you learn? What do you think about this philosophy? What did you think about that author?" And I honestly, I
looked at him and thought, "I'm supposed to remember that stuff?" You know, I thought you just take the class and then
you just file it away. I didn't think you were supposed to remember anything that you were taught. Yeah, it was a
[inaudible]. It was a good, it was a good wake-up call. Barriers for other people. Motivation's a huge one, you know.
Why, why, why spend six years, four years in a college when you can just get a job?
>> Right, so do you think, if you're looking at gender, is that one, do you think that there's [inaudible]?
>> Oh, so huge, so huge. For men, it's so important to just earn money however it is. Hopefully it's a respectable job.
But you know college is so long and so expensive. How? Why? Why spend this much time.
>> Right, so the alternative [inaudible]?
>> Vocational schools you know or just something else.
>> Do you think there's any cultural barriers for Southeast Asian men? Why they don't graduate? So much more that
[inaudible] it's a very obvious --.
>> Yeah, yeah, it is. For, you know, for girls now, they, they have a lot more options. They're able, they're allowed to go
to school. They're able to go to school. And the pressure for girls to succeed is different than for men to succeed. The ->> In the Southeast Asian community?
>> Yeah, in, in the family that I, that I observe.
>> Okay. In your family there was more pressure for you, a Lao woman?
>> It was not for me because I was the youngest of four. By the time they got to me, they just figured I'd take care of
myself. For my sister it was a lot of pressure because she was the first. It wasn't because she was a girl or a boy. It was
because she was the first. And so everything she did was just an example to the rest of us.
>> So did your mom and dad pressure her or--?
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>> I remember her, yeah, I think my mom and dad were just wondering when she'd be finished. Now when are you
going to be finished? When are you going to be finished?
>> Did she do it in four?
>> I don't remember exactly how many years she had, but I remember her having heated debates and conversations
about, "You don't know what I'm doing. You don't know what I'm going through." And my mom and dad were like, "It
can't be that hard. It can't be that tough."
>> That cultural conflict with parents? Okay. Yeah. It must have been the hardest for her. First.
>> And she was the first, THE first. And so for us, it was like, that's college? All that fighting? All that? That's college?
That doesn't sound like a fun place to be. You know, because you're not getting along with your parents. It's taking so
long. My brothers' journey were different. They had, my dad died when I was 15.
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
>> Yeah so their, they were young adults, you know. And so I don't, I know it affected them. It affected me. But I don't
know, I don't know. You'd have to ask them.
>> Okay.
>> I'll give you their names. [Laughter]
>> Okay, for your sister, does she ever comment about it now at all?
>> She is amazing. She's amazing.
>> All the interviews I'm doing are not first gen. Everyone's at least [inaudible]. That's the minimum, but some are
second, even third. So I, I don't have any first gen. That would probably change my ->> Absolutely. [Inaudible]
>> Yeah, and they'd also have to be in their fifties. They're, like, kind of older.
>> She's amazing, and she remembered college being very difficult because of all the forms, you know. The financial
aid forms, the entrance forms. The forms.
>> That's like a barrier.
>> Ten page forms of nine-font things. You know?
>> But for you guys, the second, I mean not second. But the [inaudible] you already saw her do it. And so it's you're like
the fourth person to do it.
>> Yes, but you would think she'd help me. She didn't. She said, "I did it myself. You need to learn how to do it
yourself."
>> Oh, interesting.
>> And that was it. And I, I remember being in, I think high school or something. And I said to her, "I'm going to
remember this, that you didn't help me with, with this application. Because when you need help in your English class, I
am not going to help you." And I remember her coming to me, asking me to write her college essay, and I said no.
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>> Oh, interesting.
>> I know.
>> So actually, we don't have to talk about your sister, but you know, you can mention it. But you mentioned there's a
cultural kind of barrier, educational barrier, financial barrier, structural. Do you actually think that there's a -- and you
talk about gender barrier. Did you actually, were there any like, did you ever take care of any, like parents or kids at
home? Or children or grandparents?
>> I didn't, I didn't have ->> As the youngest, no?
>> Youngest, not so much. My grandma was still alive when I was in high school and college. And she didn't really
need a lot of taking care of. Because my mom worked part time at this point. And she was remarried so she had, you
know, support. And I didn't have the --. Well, we lived on a farm, so there was like animals to take care of. But I also
was able to have a job.
>> Did you farm?
>> I did not farm personally.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Yeah, my job as the youngest was to answer the phone if it rang.
>> Okay, oh, interesting.
>> I forgot about it.
>> You avoided the -[ Inaudible ]
Okay, so what there's actually like macroaggressions where like, you know, there's like the Clan like will burn kind of a
cross on your lawn. But so I'm not going to ask, I'm not going to ask about those things. But did you think that going
through college, do you ever expect a microaggressions defined as, you know, someone would see you. "Hey, where are
you from?"
>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Did that impact your education or no?
>> Sure. You know, my mom remarried when I was in college. I think, I think I was 18 or 19. And she married a
Caucasian man. As a, you know, 40, 50-year-old woman marrying, re-marrying a Caucasian man was a big deal just
culturally. So when I graduated high school, my stepdad attended my graduation. And my friend knew I wasn't half
white or white or any of those things. But they, the ones that didn't know would say something to my stepdad like, you
look like, your dad looks like you. And it was like, she can't, but thank you.
[ Laughter ]
It was kind of, it was funny, and George was a, was a wonderful man, wonderful stepdad. And he passed away a week
after my wedding. But I loved George. George was a fantastic man. He was a teacher, art teacher at Hoover. Okay, so
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the thing is in college, when I would talk about family, I would talk about my stepdad and my dad. You know, I would
say, "Oh, my dad, my real dad and my stepdad." Well, my stepdad was my dad in my young adulthood. So when friends
and family would see pictures, they're like, "Who's that white man?" I'm like, "That's my stepdad." So I, I did go
through microaggression with people and, you know, things like, "You're so whitewashed." Or "Oh, and you trying to
be Lao?" As if I'm not Lao, I'm trying to be Lao. People would say to me things like, "Oh, you speak Lao more now
because you're around more Lao people." And I just thought, "No, I've always spoken Lao."
>> How's your proficiency? Is it?
>> I'm fluent in it. I understand, I can speak it. I can't write it. I can't read it or write it. I would have lots of people
asking me things like, "No, where are you from, Laos? Is that like Hmong?" "No, we're different people." You know,
just trying to educate people in the differences. Although, now as an adult I'll say, well some are the same country, we're
just different ethnic groups, you know.
>> Okay, and then did you, so this is a question I ask for South Asians. What is your-- did you ask a lot of questions in
class? What is your kind of like feeling towards questions?
>> Oh, I asked so many questions in class. Asking questions of professors wasn't something that was scary for me.
However, I, I didn't ask questions just to show off. You know? Or ask questions just to, to take up time. I, I remember
listening to a professor and then it would come, whenever they said something that I thought, "I don't understand that,"
or "that's interesting." I would just jot it down and then think about it for a little bit for myself. See if I could find the
answers first or some sort of understanding. And if not, I would ask the professors really after class. Or if there's time in
class. If there's discussion time, you know? So yeah, asking questions wasn't really frightening.
>> Interesting, okay. What makes Fresno State a warm or chilly environment for you?
>> I love Fresno State. I, it's warm for me because of the fantastic professors that I've had here. You know, real
relationships that have lasted beyond the degree completion. And not because it's a forced or a policy-driven
relationship. In like you have to maintain contact with these people or else. It was a genuine shared philosophy or
authentic common, you know, commonality. I think Fresno State has one of the just an inviting, I think it's an inviting
environment. It just feels good to be here. You know? It's a, it's a beautiful campus. It's, it's getting there, you know.
There's always.
>> It's really nice.
>> Yeah! There's always, there's always maintenance happening to Fresno State. There's not a lot of neglect, you know?
And I think, I think it's a wonderful place to be. And every corner of this campus has some history or something
beautiful to look at. I believe that.
>> So the last part of the interview, I'm going to ask you [inaudible] questions.
>> Oh, can we talk about the chill part about Fresno State? Yeah, yeah, the one thing I do find sort of chilling or maybe
uninviting. And maybe this is because of my own-- the dorms. The dorms. Yeah, the dorms are on, you see them on
Shaw and Cedar. They're apart from the campus. And you look at the, the dorms, you know, that are sponsored by
Fresno State, that are on Fresno State campus. Whatever, that house them here. And then you look at across the way
towards the Save Mart Center with the beautiful modern apartments. I mean, if I were a college student needing to live
somewhere, I would choose those apartments over the dorms. The dorms are small and dark and, and they, they just
look very, they look dark. They're red brick and they're -- they don't look inviting. And to see that on Shaw and Cedar, I
don't know. They, they may want to convert that to something else.
>> So the dorms?
>> Yeah. Just check out the dorms. And you can go see them, they're just --.
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>> Dorms? Uninviting.
>> Yeah, just, they, they don't look good. And I've been in them. I had a friend who lived in the dorms.
>> Good to know.
>> Yeah. And they just, they're very military. It's like military feeling: functional
>> So now, and so you did so well in school, I guess we'll go into the last part, success. What were personal enablers to
your success? You talked about your dad. You talked about your stepdad. Also we, we could have answered it, or your
familial. But what about [inaudible]? Just your personal idea. What is it like [inaudible] because the [inaudible] small
[inaudible] graduation rate. What about your personality that made you graduate?
>> Absolutely. For right now, I married. I have two children, a 12 year old and an eight year old. And I had a fulltime
job, a high-demand fulltime job that I loved. And what stopped me from completing the doctoral degree within the three
years is all of the responsibilities, you know, outside of just being a student. Now, having said that. What really stopped
me from completing it is just I wanted to take time with my research dissertation. And I wanted to put care into it. And I
didn't want it to be the last thing on my priority list. I want it to be at least the top two. And something had to give, and it
had to be the, the fulltime job career that I was in for 16 years. Because I wanted to do something else. So what
motivates me is that something else.
>> Something else.
>> Yeah, I didn't, I've had so many deaths in my life. You know, my dad died when I was 15, and my stepdad died a
week after my wedding. It was horrible.
>> Yeah, sounds terrible. I'm sorry.
>> Oh, thank you. Yeah, no it was terrible. I loved them both very much and I remember them both very much. I just
thought life is so short, and it's so quick when it's over. I don't want to spend the next two minutes in, in a, in a just
robotic existence. Of if I just stop, if I stop and not finish my degree, it would be okay. It would be disappointing, but I
still have a job, I still have a family. I could continue on. However, if I give up this really safe and beautiful and really
secure job, career and pursue this doctorate degree, I could open. I am able to open up more. And then live a life that's
more meaningful. More meaningful, you know? To, to pursue this study that is so personal to me. And important. And
having the support.
>> And just be so helpful to so many people.
>> Yeah, and just, that impact, you know? That impact. I wanted to take my time, and I wanted to be careful with it
because I didn't want to do anyone any disservices. I didn't want to malign the people even, there's so much negative
press. There's so much negative perceptions out there about the Southeast Asian people. I didn't want to do a sloppy job
and add to that image. I wanted to study it logically and rationally and just present the information without maligning it.
Or pushing it into any way.
>> And then what is pushing you? Because it seems like you are a big advocate for South Asians. What is it about your- like why, why Southeast Asians? Why not Mexicans?
>> Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Why Southeast Asians. I think, I think what I see in the Southeast Asian
population, I speak very specifically about Lao-Americans.
[ Inaudible ]
It's that we are in this, this perfect existence where we're not the newest group in America anymore. However, we're at
this point in our existence in this country where we can influence this generation to be so much more successful. You
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know, the opportunity for education has never existed before. And to be here and to have that choice of going to college,
completing8 college, and then opening up your career into realms you've never even considered. Like this is the time to
make that impact. If we lose the one-and-a-half, or the second generation, you know, the population that's growing the
fastest. If we don't appeal to them to go to college, I'm afraid that it'd be so much harder to appeal to the third generation
or the fourth generation. And I, I want to see this population successful. I want all people to be successful, but this is the
one that, the newest one that we can push, and push forward.
>> That's great. If you think about kind of like bridges to higher education or your -- so I asked you earlier what the
barriers were, like cultural, educational, financial, structural, health. Why, why are there so many successful LaoAmericans like yourself who made it? Like what, what do you think that, what happened for them structurally,
culturally, financially? Why did they make it?
>> Oh man, why did they make it? Right? It's, it's that, it's that drive to -- I think to be the first is exciting.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, to be the first, to cross that finish line first and to say, "Oh, I was the first doctor, I was the first teacher, well I
was the first." And it would be true because it would be the first. Yeah, and then, in a, in a smaller, to be the first in the
family. So let's say someone else was already a doctor. That's okay, but I'll be the first in my family to do it.
>> Right.
>> That, that, the first -[ Inaudible ]
No, I wouldn't be the first. I would be the first in my family, yeah. So there's still that shiny star to grab to be the first.
Now the sec-- when I think about successful people, I think about those in careers and they are making a difference in
the community. It was also, I think it was just to help out a family, also. You know, if I get to this, then I can help my
family. I can be more appealing to the people outside of my community.
>> Actually, could you speak, I know you went to a Lao education. I would love to know the Lao education. If you
could tell us what, what was that thing about? And what, how, how did that impact you, and what was your opinion?
>> Gosh, it was, it was the first Lao-American conference, educational conference for students in high school and
middle school. It was the first, the first in 2017 for it to be the first. It was so beautiful to see a roomful of, of students,
you know, who were of -[ Inaudible ]
And of Lao-American students.
>> Yes, I was, I would love to know [inaudible].
>> It was, it was almost as if I couldn't believe it was real. We talk about getting together. We talk about educational
advocacy. But for it to actually happen with other people supporting it was -[ Inaudible ]
And he wasn't just there. But he was helping set up which is. He wasn't just a like a, like a shiny, shiny celebrity
spokesperson that came and went. He was there from the beginning to end. And he led the workshops. I don't know him.
I had never taken a class with him. I've met him a couple times. But I mean, people in the Lao community came and
supported it, you know. It was powerful. I was speechless. It was beautiful.
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>> I was getting, I was getting emotional.
>> Yeah. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. It was beautiful.
>> And what do you think the effect it will have on those little kids? They're babies.
>> Well, I, you know, one of them was a nephew of mine. A distant relative-type nephew, and I saw him last week. And
I said, "What did you think of the conference?" He goes, "Yeah it was good." Mind you, he's an eight, he's a seventh
grader. So you know they're not actually for [inaudible], but he was, "No, it was good." I said, "Would you go again
next year?" He goes, "Yeah," so it was ->> You have them ever year?
>> Yeah, I hope so. I hope so.
>> Every year? Oh my god.
>> Every year would be great. Every other year would be great. Every year would be great, too. It was beautiful. It was
beautiful.
>> I agree. Alright, okay, so do you think there's any community enablers that help Lao-Americans graduate such as
church or dance groups or cultural groups or friends? You got through. Has -- your story's very familial. Activist dad,
you know. But are there anything in the community? I mean, now, 2017, that we both went to the Lao, I mean. When
you're growing up from one to 18, did you do any community events that helped? Pushed?
>> No, one to 18 community events? I don't, I don't want to insult anyone by forgetting, you know. Maybe something
did happen and I forgot about it. But if I forgot about it, then it didn't really impact me. So I cannot recall any church,
church or temple or community events that encouraged me or motivated me to move on. It was all, it was more of
family push. And professor push. And friends, environment. You know, that sort of thing, yeah.
>> So this is the last part. I'm just going to ask you what do you want at Fresno State?
>> What do I want Fresno State?
>> To help graduation, [inaudible] four-year graduation. Which you did four-year which is amazing. So what are, what
are the things? Just name it down the line.
>> I would love, would love for the Southeast Asian students to have a building or an office or a classroom dedicated
purely for Southeast Asian students.
>> Building, some office?
>> Just a physical space that's more permanent, you know? A permanent physical space.
>> Okay. Space. We [inaudible] have a cultural center. It's like a little room, but.
>> Where?
>> I think they just opened a cross-cultural center. But it's a little room it's not, it's shared with other people.
>> Yeah, no.
>> You want a [inaudible]?
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>> Yes. Because what we're asking for are students that come in to ask for help and it's got to be an environment they
feel welcomed. And if it says, "Cultural Awareness," that sounds to me like, like, am I going to learn who I am?
Cultural Awareness, I'm going to be aware of my culture. You know? It just, clearly labeled that, you know Southeast
Asians. This is where you can come in for academic help or financial aid help.
>> So clearly labeled?
>> Yeah, make it obvious and.
>> Southeast Asians.
>> Visible, you know, not tucked into, I don't know, a portable somewhere.
>> Anything else? Classes? Workshops?
>> I don't know about classes and workshops. It might be more -- because all the studies say you know the first year
support is great. But what about that second year or third year or fourth year?
>> So you, do you want second year support?
>> It's, it should, I wouldn't even -- how about continual support? Instead of just first or second year, you know, it could
be something like undergraduate services here, or graduate services here. Career networking here.
>> Networking, okay. So you want career networking?
>> Yeah, internships. As soon as, when a student identifies a major of interest, connect that kid, student. Hey! You're
interested in becoming a doctor? How about these volunteer opportunities at hospitals. Here is some internships in a
dentist office. Here shadow some lawyer somewhere. Shadow a teacher somewhere. Shadow an entrepreneur
somewhere.
>> Okay, and then what about if, let's say, for yourself, you go onto teaching. Will you mentor? Did they push you into?
What did you do --?
>> The teaching was because my dad was a teacher, my, my stepdad was a teacher.
>> Your sister is a teacher.
>> My sister is a teacher.
>> But will you, anything at Fresno State that helped you being a teacher? Like did you?
>> Yeah, I did the credentialing program but that was after the degree. But. And that was just, not that it, it was just
what you were supposed to do. You know, if you want to become a teacher, go to the credentialing program.
>> Okay, but then how did you get the job?
>> At University High School? My professor, Victor Hansen, was on the hiring committee.
>> Oh, okay. So that's great.
>> Yeah, no. That's what I mean when I say professors with, who invest in you. You know, he wasn't just my classroom
teacher. He really cared about what I was going to do with this degree. He really, like, he really was like, "Okay, so
great. Now you have a shiny degree. What are you going to do with it?" And he helped. He said, "Alright, hey, here's a
job opening. You know, come apply. I can't guarantee you the job. There's other applicants, but apply." You know, it's
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that.
>> He pushed you to apply [inaudible].
>> Yeah, it's that sort of connection. It's that sort of interest, you know.
>> Okay, anything else you want at Fresno State?
>> Okay, so I want a physical space.
>> Physical space for sure.
>> Sort of a, not just first year and second year help, support, but through. Continual. Continual support. Career
networking, that internships. Or volunteer opportunities. Anything to connect the student to their actual career choice.
>> Volunteer opportunities.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Before they finish their degree.
>> Before.
>> Absolutely.
>> What about after?
>> Well, afterwards, it, it could be, you know, reaching out to places that hire. Let's say a person wants to become a
psychologist.
[ Inaudible ]
Yeah, after they graduate. I mean, by that time I'm hoping students are networking and connecting as they go. You
know who goes a great job historically about that are fraternities and sororities. They do an excellent job networking. I
don't know how that works. I was never in a sorority or fraternity. But there's something to be said about alumni, you
know, alumni. There are no contact.
>> Okay, so alumni.
>> Relationships.
>> Okay, is there a Lao-American alumni [inaudible]?
>> I don't think so.
>> You should create it. You should get on Facebook, and you'll get interviews. There's a big, long alumni actually. It's
pretty big, and they, they, they communicate. They're having a, a wine tasting this week. [Laughter]
>> I don't drink wine. But yeah, I'm sure a lot of people do. All these things that take time. And see, I, I don't know that
I'm good at that stuff. Does that make sense? Like I, to -- I don't know if I'm good at that stuff. I don't know.
>> Okay, that is it. Is there any questions that you, that you'd -- or any comments that you'd like to add. Do you think I
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should have asked you anything else? Or do you want to comment on anything else that wasn't mentioned as a, a barrier
or a bridge to four-year graduation?
>> Gosh, I, when I look at the students entering college now. You know, my nephews, and my nieces, they are, they're
definitely disconnected. I would like for them to feel more connected. To not, the college necessarily, but to what they're
doing. It's, a lot of them have graduated which I'm really proud of. And I hope they're able to find their careers, but
maybe not see college as a rush. You know, like I know you mentioned that four year? But in those four years for them
to, to remember what they're learning. You know, like my wake up was maybe six year or four years too late. But the
idea of that don't just go through it for four years. That shouldn't be the prize, but to really be educated. Take classes that
educate you, not just to get to a degree. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah, it totally makes sense.
>> Okay. It, it's -- I know in four years is very important, but they need to learn. They need to educate themselves.
Think rational, you know, problem solving, real-life application. Not just rush through it to get to it.
>> Okay, great. Okay, so thank you so much for your time.
>> Oh, you're welcome.
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