Thong Vang interview
Item
Title
Thong Vang interview
Creator
Vang, Thong
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00017
extracted text
>> Hello. Welcome. Welcome to our Fresno State new archive on Southeast Asian Successful Voices. I'd like to thank
you so much for participating. If you can say your name and spell it.
>> OK. So hi. My name is Thong Vang. Thong as in T-H-O-N-G. Vang as in V-A-N-G.
>> Thank you. Thong, if you can give me verbal permission to deposit your interview today in our Successful Southeast
Asian Voices archive as well as give me verbal permission to cite you in any article or book on successful southeast
Asians.
>> Yes, I give you consent.
>> Great! Thank you. Alright. Can you tell me your gender?
>> I am male.
>> Can you tell me your birth year?
>> Sorry. Can you repeat that?
>> The year that you're born only.
>> Oh, the year. OK. 1991.
>> Can you tell me your undergraduate major and the college you went to?
>> I did my undergraduate in psychology and I went to UC Merced.
>> Can you tell me your generation in the United States?
>> I'll be first generation. Technically generation 1.5.
>> Excellent. How old were you when you were -- you were born in, you said, Thailand? How old were you when you
came to the US?
>> I was one.
>> Oh! Yeah, you would be 1.5. Some people would actually define you as second generation, I guess. But it depends
on who defines you [laughing]. What's your mother and father's highest education?
>> My father's education is high school and my mom's, some middle school.
>> Great. What is your GPA?
>> Currently? Or? Right now I'm currently out of school.
>> Oh, whatever.
>> So when I graduated from undergrad, I was 3.2. And then my graduate was 3.9.
>> Oh goodness gracious, that's quite high. Excellent. What is your ultimate degree? I mean, so you have a BA at UC
Merced. What is your MA in?
>> In organizational behavior.
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>> Oh wow!
>> And I would like to get a doctorate within the concentration of organizational study but I'm not exactly sure where
and what field yet.
>> So do you think it will be at Stanford or ->> I'm hoping to -- I don't know where exactly, but I would like to apply to Stanford hopefully one day. That's in the
plan and it's in the works.
>> OK.
>> Yeah.
>> OK after this, I have someone to direct you to talk to. OK? About that.
>> OK.
>> OK, great. Growing up, what was the social economics of your family? Was it working class? Middle class?
Affluent?
>> My parents have always worked. My dad had two jobs for a while. And then my mom was a stay-at-home mom.
Yeah.
>> And what high school did you go to? And was it private or public?
>> I went to a public high school in [inaudible] Clovis High School.
>> Clovis High School. Where is Clovis High School? Is that Clovis west, east, or north?
>> So it's not a part of the [inaudible] directions. It's actually just Clovis High School. It's located on Barstow and
Fowler, I believe. Yeah.
>> OK. And what was the racial demographics of your high school?
>> I think at the time I was there, it was predominantly Caucasian, some Hispanic. I don't know the number, but there
was very little black. And there was a good number of Asian but then mainly southeast Asian Hmong.
>> Interesting. So my question is this. Why do Hmong, why do Hmongs go to college? And why do they do not go to
college?
>> Sorry. You got cut off for a little. Could you repeat the question?
>> I'm sorry. Why do southeast Asians, or particularly Hmong, why do they go to college? And why do they do not go
to college?
>> I think, although I can only speak for myself, I went to college because in my family I had a lot of [inaudible] who
went to college. And they were sort of wanting to motivate me to go because they were going. In a way, in retrospect,
looking back now, I see that it was -- I guess it was a college-going culture in my family because the older folks are
going. So I decided that I needed to go. And then I looked up ways or asked for help on ways to get to where I wanted to
go. And in ninth grade I had a work project, an assignment where I interview my cousin who got his masters at that
time.
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>> Wow.
>> In guidance counseling from Fresno State. And so I -- originally I thought I wanted to be a counselor until I asked
some questions about what did he do [inaudible]. Also, my first cousins, many of them were girls and they were the
older ones in the family. And so they helped me a lot.
>> Oh!
>> I think that throughout my academic career, many women have helped me to get to where I'm at. So I just want to
mention that.
>> Wow. That's a -- thank you for mentioning that. How did they help you specifically?
>> They helped me by editing my personal statements.
>> Oh.
>> They motivate me by just having conversations about all of the things that we're doing. And they also showed me
how to do things for [inaudible] workwise or [inaudible] volunteers, joining clubs. And they also provided, I would say,
I don't want to say financially but while I visited with them in college, they took me out to see all these cool things in
college.
>> Ooh. So then who helped them? I mean, so they helped you. Who helped them to kind of do those things?
>> I think for them they had to sort of figure it out themselves. I'm sure it wasn't someone within their families because
my family came to the United States early on and so many of the folks at that time did not go to college. So I'm
assuming it was probably someone like teachers or personal educators that they knew when they were going to school.
And many of them we're very high-performing young ladies, and so ->> Did they go to your same high school?
>> No. They actually did not. My first cousin went to Fresno. And it was three of them that were all visiting me who
were in college. One went to Fresno State. The other one went to Toronto State, did her bachelors in, I think it was
graphic design. The other one went to UC Berkeley, did her bachelors in anthropology and the other one went to UC
Davis where she did hers in child development. And then the -- oh there's four. The fourth one ->> Oh wow!
>> Went to Davis and did hers in economic development, I believe.
>> So it seems your family is very highly educated, very unique. Why? Does your family as a general theme -- your
family and their family? Was educated pushed by your family? And your extended family?
>> I think in my -- yeah, like from my first cousins, my dad's aunt, like brothers, it was. It was a high push for
[inaudible] because I think within my whole bigger clan family, we had like the youngest families. Every [inaudible]
leader we came up [inaudible] was the youngest.
>> OK.
>> And we came later in the years so whereby we're like second to the last group that came. And so ->> Oh wow.
>> there was the 2005 group and then we came in the 90s which was like the group before the last group.
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>> So are you speaking about the Vangs?
>> Excuse me?
>> When you say clan, are you speaking about the Vangs?
>> Right. Not Vang specifically, the broader umbrella of Vangs but then the subclans of the Vangs. There are subclans.
>> Oh! OK.
>> And so specifically to the grandpa. The way that I understand it is that I'm related to the other Vangs in Fresno and
San Diego and Minnesota.
>> Oh wow.
>> We share my great-grandpa, five generations back.
>> How interesting!
>> And then were they helping you at all in education? Or, so are you saying that some of the Vangs went to college
before you and they were helping you? Or? How did that ->> Yeah, yeah.
>> Trickle down to you [laughing].
>> Yeah. So my uncle, his son was the only one that went to college. The one that I interviewed for, who graduated
from Princeton with his masters. He is related to me. I think three generations back we share like a great-grandpa.
>> Oh wow!
>> And then so I interviewed his, my uncle's son. His son. Him, specifically, he didn't really give me a lot of like -other than give me the insights on, you know, what he did and stuff like that, there wasn't much to the engagement. I
think it was more engagement between me and my first cousins, especially the [inaudible] woman and my first cousin
circle. But he was definitely a motivation because there weren't that many Hmong male in my circle.
>> Interesting.
>> In the Vang family clan. [inaudible] and then my sub Vang family clan, not the bigger ->> OK.
>> Who went to school. And in general, even now I think I'm the only son who went to college, or within the Vang
family that went to college.
>> Why do you think that's so?
>> Aside from the ones who I interviewed. There are a few from San Diego that went to college. I think two or three of
them that got their bachelors in engineering.
>> Oh wow!
>> But I met them later on in my life, like recently like about three years.
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>> OK. Interesting.
>> Because when I was younger, I had seen them. I had met them but I didn't know what they do or what they were
involved with. But I don't know. I don't know why many of my brothers, cousins did not go. My brother, my immediate
family, we are going to school. So my younger brother is at Fresno State.
>> Great!
>> He's going for computer science.
>> OK.
>> And then my youngest brother is at [inaudible] studying cognitive science.
>> Interesting. So is it you have kind of like trail blazed it for your direct family? Or did someone in your direct family
went for your -- not your cousins, but in your direct family, did anyone go to college before you?
>> No, I'm the oldest son so I went to college.
>> Oh wow! So how are you helping them out [laughing]?
>> Right. So I think for my youngest brother, since he's going to UC Merced, we, because my two younger sisters -- so
I have in my family five total. I'm the oldest. I have two younger sisters who are, like, chronologically like eight after
me. And then the two sons or brothers are the two younger ones. And so me, my sisters went to UC Merced together.
>> Oh OK.
>> We all kind of went to UC Merced. And so we sort of had an idea of what, how UC Merced is, like, the institution
and how it's organized and being involved, being actively involved with the university, we were aware of so many
resources that were available for students. And then because Merced is a small university, a lot small university, the
resources are more apparent and it's more visible. Aside from, you know, it's because being not a big university you
have so many resources whereas it gets overwhelming. And I can attest to that being here at Stanford. There's so much
resources but it's like there's many research to look at.
>> Right.
>> Like, where do you start?
>> Correct.
>> And so Merced was, it was simple. There weren't that many resources but there were enough resources where you
can tell this is what I need and I can go get help.
>> Thinking back, Thong, thinking back of when you were in high school, were you part of any outward bound trio or
Avid program at all?
>> No. I was not in the Avid bound or Trio. I heard about it.
>> What about when you went to UC Merced? Were you part of any summer bridge program at all at UC Merced?
>> No. I was not. I was aware of the summer bridge program, but I think it was because of financial, like money. I
didn't know how that was going to go down in terms of who should pay for what and so I didn't have money for a
[inaudible] or summer bridge.
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>> Those are all free, but [laughing] ->> What?
>> Those are all free, so it's interesting you didn't know that they were free, kind of helping things. Maybe too much
information [laughing]. OK. Go on.
>> No, like, I wasn't sure because I looked at the number and then I clicked on all the financial aid stuff and there was a
discrepancy between the amount that was going to be provided and there was, you know, a [inaudible] or the amount for
the program. And so I was like, no, I can't afford that.
>> OK.
>> But if I could go back, yes I would do that.
>> Oh! I didn't know at UC Merced they make you pay because at Fresno State, it's free.
>> I think at UC Merced they still have to pay.
>> [Gasp] My goodness!
>> I don't know.
>> OK.
>> I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know if [inaudible] that would subsidize the expense.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> But if they were, it would be great to know as an incoming student. That would have been great if I could have done
the summer bridge program, yeah.
>> OK. Great. So thinking back at your high school, were you, did the teachers have a high expectation of you as a
person? As a student?
>> Right. So looking back, I don't know how exactly, how I made it out of high school, and how I got into college
[laughing] because I wasn't the EL student. And for some reason, the way my, I don't know. The way that [inaudible]
trying to get more students who needed a lot of support working out with, like, English. They would put you in the EL
class where you or you're categorized as an EL student and then put you in the EL classroom.
>> What is that? What is that? What is EL? What's that?
>> English Learner.
>> Oh, OK.
>> Yes. And so, for -- yeah, English as a second language learner. Because I don't know how that went down in terms
of like, OK, you take this EL course and then you will take another English class, you know, to make sure that you have
the full year, you meet the full year requirements for a university. Or you just take the EL class only and you don't get to
take an English class because, you know, your major, you have a packed schedule. I don't know how all that worked.
But fortunately I was not placed in the EL class. So I was put into regular English courses.
>> Do you think that was a good thing or a bad thing?
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>> I think it was good.
>> OK.
>> Because then I didn't just speak Hmong because for a long time I didn't speak English.
>> OK.
>> Growing up I spoke a lot of Hmong. I was very quiet [laughing]. And I think being in a regular English class, I
mean, it definitely put me out of my comfort zone because I didn't know anything. But at the same time, it exposed me
to different groups of people. And it sort of pushed me to work with people who are not like myself. I don't know what
it would have been like if I was in the EL class because I wasn't, so I can't tell you the difference between the two.
>> OK. Thinking back, what was your high school's teachers' expectations of Hmong students? Was it high, medium,
low?
>> See that's the ->> Or neutral?
>> I think yeah. I can't remember a time back that -- I can say that within the classes I had [inaudible] they were
expecting, yeah, high performance and you perform on par with the peers.
>> OK. Thinking back also from now to back then, do you remember any notable media depictions of your ethnic group
in the media at all?
>> Right. There was, I think when I was in high school. So media depiction ->> Hmong, yeah.
>> Right. 2000 -- when was high school? 2013-14? 13? 14? 15? No, 15, 16, 17. No. 16. Sorry. I'm not [inaudible]. I
mean 2006, 7, 8, and 9. Right. So that was during the time when [inaudible] and the group were arrested. So no, I don't
think there was any positive depiction of the Hmong community because I think we're such a small community that if
you say Hmong, it's almost like, [inaudible].
>> Uh-huh. So ->> Yeah.
>> So, what? So you heard about [inaudible]? What did you hear? I mean, that was the only media depiction?
>> Right. I think then, that time, that was the biggest that I can remember or recall. [inaudible] ->> What was he arrested for?
>> I believe for trying to overthrow the Laos government.
>> Oh OK!
>> I don't know what the actual plans were or the actual accusations of what they did, but I think that's the general idea
of why they're being arrested or why he even got arrested to start off with.
>> Was it in the United States or they were arrested in Laos?
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>> In the United States.
>> Oh, Ok. Hmm. Interesting. Secret history. I've never heard of this.
>> So it wasn't just him but it was a group of other folks who were arrested with him. I think there were 10 or 11, one of
those numbers. Yes, it was a lot of media in regards to that, a lot of commotion. And in the community I remember I
actually went to Sacramento to see, you know, the rally. Or participate in the rally.
>> Was it a rally to support him? Or what was the rally about?
>> Yeah, to support him and for him to be released.
>> OK. And eventually he was released, right?
>> Yes.
>> OK. Great. Interesting. So was there any other media depictions of the Hmong community? I mean, social media?
NBC? [laughing]
>> Yeah, so I don't think -- I wasn't on social media at that time [laughing].
>> OK [laughing].
>> I think it was, but I wasn't. It wasn't Facebook. It wasn't news feed and, you know, information. It was more like, oh
here's your page.
>> OK [laughing].
>> But yeah. I would say at that time I didn't watch that many news as well.
>> OK.
>> And probably because I didn't understand a lot of things that were going on. I didn't understand really what they
were talking about. I can't -- yeah.
>> And this is when you were in high school, right?
>> Yes.
>> So thinking back through your high school, you said you went to Clovis High School. Do you think they
academically prepared you well enough for UC Merced?
>> I would say yes and no because I did Cart.
>> What is Cart? What is that?
>> Cart is, I think it's part of their program similar to RRP -- it's not similar to RRP. It's like a technical training
program. And it's for Center -- I think it's Center for Advanced Research and Technology. That's what it stands for.
CART.
>> OK.
>> CART is where I kind of got some of my, oh you know, you should do some research on this. And you present it and
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stuff like that. And I would say that was my experience of what I did that sort of prepared me for UC Merced. It's just
like like, research, you know, writing papers, and stuff like that. I didn't take traditional English. The English we had to
do with CART was more focused on research.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. We didn't get the literature beast reading and writing, I would say. Yeah, so ->> What about math?
>> Math? I took math at Clovis. I think it did in a way. I took stats and probability as my senior year math course. It
gave me some idea of how to do math and then stats in college but I think, I think I'm still kind of fuzzy on that. I could
do many of the, like, basic math stuff, but it wasn't like calculus or trig. Yeah.
>> So you said in this way this did prepare you? In what ways did it not prepare you for college?
>> I think the writing. But I mean, I don't know if that's because I'm a [inaudible] and my growth, my learning curve for
English is just different. And yeah, I don't know if that's the reason why. I think they did what they could to support me
and teach me. I think they did a decent job. But I think the difficult part was junior and senior year.
>> Oh junior and senior year. OK.
>> Yeah. And so my freshman and sophomore year was, I think it was good but I don't know if I can say what helped,
what didn't help. But what really stood out to me was CART.
>> So you graduated UC Merced and went on to grad school with a quite, very high GPA. Do you, I mean, do you
remember any barriers you had? You second you are in a second English, second language learner. Did you think that
you had any other barriers in college? For instance, do you think your life would be easier if you were a female? Like a
gender barrier?
>> I don't know. I wouldn't say there's a gender barrier. I would say probably resource.
>> Resource.
>> And knowing that the resource exists, like is there, and why it's important to take advantage of the resource.
>> Yes. That's great advice.
>> Right. So yeah. I think one of the questions you had was if I can go back or what I've done, the barriers. I mean,
what I did mainly in undergrad was I was really involved in clubs and organizations and campus life and also the
community of Merced.
>> Great!
>> Which was great for me too. It's a different route. But if I wanted to be, I think, you know, in a PhD program and
doing research and -- I think it would've been helpful if I would have been more invlvld on the research end with
professors.
>> OK.
>> And I think one other barrier is me not going to the professor and saying, hey, and tell them I can do research. What
can I do?
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>> And I think to start off before even that, you even get there, before you even get me to go there, I think it was the
fact that I was not confident with my language. Yeah. And so I was afraid that if I approached a professor and I didn't
know what I was talking about, I would have been, like, ignored or, you know, think of that I'm stupid.
>> Whereas probably they would be overjoyed that anyone would ask to help them [laughing].
>> Right, right.
>> Right.
>> So I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And so ->> And then ->> Sorry, what?
>> Oh, no. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
>> Oh yeah, yeah. And so I would say confidence [laughing]. That's the other part. Confidence in your ability. You just
perform. And I think a lot of times we don't get that. Especially when you're going through this by yourself, especially if
you're a first generation going through college and you can but you don't know that you can. Like, everyone one else is
just like you. I mean, there's definitely some students who are definitely performing higher and cognitively they're more
developed and because of the exposure they had, they are now more aware of things. And when you talk to them, you're
definitely talking to, like, probably the 1% of the [inaudible] population right? But there are a lot of students who don't
know as well. And going to college as a first generation goer, you don't know that.
>> And in this case, when you didn't know things, did you text your cousins for advice? Or did they? For instance, you
said you were involved in clubs? What clubs? And you said you were involved in the community. What community and
what did you do? Can you speak more about that?
>> Yes. So my cousins are there and they continue to support me with writing. And so they edit my papers sometimes.
And they were involved in clubs, so that's the direction I took into clubs and organizations and campus life. And then,
well it was an organization first. So an organization that kind of led me to campus involvement, led me to the decision
of Merced. I was involved in the Hmong Student Association there. Originally going there, I wanted to start a club but
then there was already one so I didn't want to start another one. And then I was with the club for about four years.
>> Oh!
>> With the time, I kind of went from member from being a member to being an officer and then went on to being
president of the club, but ->> That's excellent! Go on.
>> I think of being a member opened my eyes to the possibility of controlling things. You know, what I want, because
Merced's a small university and it's a [inaudible] university. There's so much, there's so many directions that we could
take. And so I, that was where I became a representative for Decision. It's not a club, but it's a [inaudible] under the
university student government which is called ICC Interclub Council.
>> OK.
>> It was a budgetary committee that kind of gives away money to clubs for when they come to propose for funding.
Aside from the big ticket funding which is from the student government, you go to this other club, this other committee
that is a representation of all clubs. So all clubs get a chance to send a representative to go on bill. And so I was the
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active rep as a member for the Hmong Student Association. I was involved with that and as second year sophomore I
became president -- not president. I became [inaudible] for the club, for the Hmong Student Association to become vice
chair for the Interclub Council.
>> What did you do as a public -- what did you do for public relations? What skills did you learn?
>> So, public relations mainly worked with people outside of the university and the club, mainly reaching out to the
Hmong community and the other communities that are not the institution. So other clubs on campus or organizations
outside of the university. Or just directly to the Hmong community itself. And so as public relations, I got a chance to
work with a commercial with Hmong TV Network.
>> Oh!
>> And so we had a commercial in collaboration with the Video Club. At UC Merced we created a short bit of Hmong
advertisement. It was really -- at the time I thought it was really neat because they didn't have that type of
advertisements. Like, 30 second, to the point, and I would say more elegant. Like, not -- no flashy language. More like
quick, informational video. And it ran for about a month before our Hmong Culture Show.
>> Wow!
>> Where we had charged the door and we had a pretty good turnout. With that we were able to fundraise $300 of
scholarship for our educational conference the year [inaudible] the next year.
>> Wow! Can you speak more of your educational conference?
>> Alright. The conference itself started when the club started in 2006 or 7. 2006 is when the club started. I don't know
when the educational conference started exactly, but I would say probably 2006 or 7. And it's mainly a one day
conference focused on providing information for the Merced, Mercedian area, Merced County area high school students
to get more information on going to college. I think at that time it was a Yield program where we were trying to get
more students to go to UC Merced. Right. But the budget was definitely a lot lower at that time. But over time we were
able to get funding and support from the university, not only from the student government but I think a few years ago
we got funding from, I want to say the Dean of the Social Sciences.
>> Great!
>> I don't know how. I mean, I believe it was probably through, like, a discretionary funds. But she or he -- I don't know
who it was because I didn't get the funding -- but that person helped us with doing bus. So we bussed students from
Merced to UC Merced because Merced itself it's a great location [inaudible] located in the middle of nowhere.
>> OK.
>> Not really but it's like five minutes and transportation is definitely a problem for some families. So we get
transportation where we went to [inaudible] High School in Merced and bussed students to the campus. But again,
mainly the conferences consist of workshop that are focused on college and how to apply to college financial aid.
>> That's great.
>> And, I believe, when you're in college what you can do.
>> In looking at those students that you bussed in -- and it seems like you are very giving. You've done, as president of
the Hmong Club, you've done a lot. Looking at those students that you have this conference, did you see any barriers
that they had?
>> So my problem, always the one I look at -- well, not my problem but the problem that I think is [inaudible] that
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they're [inaudible] here. They came because those are the folks who kind of saw that they needed stuff or needed help.
And so they came. But what happened to the folks who did not? Like, why did they not come? And it's always, I think
it's always the problem when you look at the events and programs. There are people here. Great. But the people here
don't necessarily need this service as much as the people who did not show up.
>> That's a great point. So how -- I mean, that's. Yes!
>> And so, I know that many of our students that came to the conference ended up going to college.
>> Oh great.
>> And there's also folks who came for the conference who came to the university. So they ended up coming or were
accepted. They came to the university. They joined the club. They went through the club. They became president as
well. And that's big. Right? Those are the students who sort of have an idea of what they want and so that's why they're
at where they're at. I did the same thing. So I was a high school student in college [inaudible]. I went to the educational
conference for Fresno State, which was a three-day event. And then after being a part of the conference, I became a club
member as a high school student for the [inaudible]. And then I went on to college and did the same thing in the club
there and did what I did as an undergrad. But you realize that the students who show up are the students who already
kind of have an idea of what they want to do and they just needed a little bit more nudge which is great. You know, that
push may have made a difference.
>> Right.
>> But there are still so many folks who don't know what's out there. And I see that. And again, to answer your question
about why some of the students or some of my brothers who didn't go to college, why didn't they go? It's maybe because
they didn't see it as often. They we're exposed to it enough. And maybe like you mentioned, when they were in school,
maybe their teacher, whoever it was, they the expectation may have been different. And a lot of it has to do with
probably, like, home as well. That's not just the -- you know, the school district has their hand. But yeah. My big thing is
I, you know. Great. People are here, but what about the folks who are not? And how do you get to the mass? And so that
led me to actually end up [inaudible] at UC Merced and getting involved with the Hmong TV Network.
>> Oh wow! OK.
>> To better understand media, I guess ethnic media and its influence on not only the older generation because we know
that the older generation, they watch Hmong TV and they listen to Hmong radio. I know that part. I wanted to know
how can we influence the middle working class and also the younger folks.
>> Right.
>> So some of the things that I did with them kind of opened my eyes to, I guess, the life cycle of ethnic media within
the Hmong community. And so that was fun. But going back to college, I started getting invlvvd with the Hmong Club
there, getting involved with the Student Government. I ended up actually interning at the State Capitol as well one
summer.
>> Oh wow!
>> Through the UC Sacramento program.
>> Do you recommend that? Do you recommend that to students?
>> Yes.
>> How did --
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>> Yes, I recommend that and there's also another program called PAPA.
>> What's that?
>> PAPA is -- I don't know the full name, but it's a Pacific Island organization nonprofit mainly focused on getting
Asian students engaged with the politic process and also civic engagement.
>> OK.
>> And so in my, what I went through is I did courses. So I took [inaudible] policy courses, mainly focused on K12
education and funding through the state of California. So learning that and how the process works for that part. And
then I interned for Richard [inaudible] who was at that time assembly member for the 5th district which is northern
Sacramento. So with [inaudible] were to be a part of the district office and the capital office. So I got to move around
between the two areas which was great. I got a chance to live in Sacramento with my uncle because my mom's side of
the family lived in Sacramento.
>> Oh!
>> [Inaudible] Sacramento and so I got a chance to kind of hang out with them and got to know them as well. So within
my own family, I'm very close with my mom and my dad's side of the family. And so being there was great. I got a
chance to engage with my and my family there. There aren't that many folks within my mom's side of the family who
are going to school as well. So it's just that. I don't know why. Maybe it wasn't really advertised on my mom's side of
the family. The greater Yang clan within their own family clan -- because my mom is a Yang.
>> OK.
>> They don't -- not too many of them went to college. And many of the ones that went were, you know, were women.
>> Interesting. Why do you -- like, you mentioned a lot about the gender. Why do you think there is that gender
discrepancy?
>> I [sighs] -- my observations is that maybe in the time in the Asian culture -- specifically I can speak about the
Hmong because that's all I know and have been -- is the Hmong women don't have as much leisure time as the Hmong
men. Or boys.
>> OK.
>> So growing up being a boy, you had more chance to go out there and explore. The contradiction is probably you're
exploring within your own community. And so you're hanging out with your friends who are also Hmong as well. And
it kind of builds this inter, kind of small bubble of Hmong men hanging out. And there's a lot of drinking involved
growing up. And so, even underaged drinking. And so it's -- I don't know. I don't know if that has anything to do with
like Hmong men going to college.
>> Huh.
>> But Hmong men just have a lot of leisure time.
>> OK.
>> That's what I understand. Yeah. And that's the family structure that we carry over from Laos.
>> You would think that it would be the opposite, the one that has more leisure time would go to college because you
have more time free versus --
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>> Right.
>> Hmm. Interesting.
>> But because of that, I think the Hmong women had, like, they had to stay home more and they can't go out as often.
And I think because of the time that they have, that they end up doing more school related stuff. [Inaudible] homework
is due.
>> Interesting.
>> And they actually do that homework because they can't go anywhere else.
>> Wow. That's a good observation. That's a very insightful observation. Great. Do you think that there's anything else I
didn't ask you about a possible barrier that hampers Hmong males or women from graduating college? Or even
attending college? You said a lot of different reasons.
>> Right. Yeah, you can ask. Did you say you have more questions?
>> No, I'm saying do you think I didn't ask any other -- I mean, do you think I covered all the questions for barriers?
Because I asked you about cultural barriers, financial bearers, educational barriers, gender, health, structural barriers, or
like taking care of children. I mean, you gave a lot of answers. Do you think I didn't ask -- was there anything I missed
for barriers at all or do you think you kind of, you answered it all?
>> I think that should be it. Other than the exposure and material.
>> OK. So now let's talk about you. Let's talk about [inaudible] because you are very unique in that you are very
successful. You have a bachelors and a graduate degree. Later on a PhD probably. Why do you have this drive? And
you talked about how you were an English second language learner and you've done so much. You've been president of
the Hmong Club. You've done commercials. You've been inside the community. Why are you so personally successful?
Like, what is it about your personality that drove this in you?
>> I would say curiosity. And also a lack of -- I will say lack of awareness at that moment. I mean, I often retrospect
and reflect but because I don't know and I ask. And also being OK with that. So I've learned over time to just be OK
with not knowing.
>> OK.
>> What's going on. And to just show up.
>> OK.
>> And then figure it out [laughing]. Yeah. And if I don't know, then it's OK to not know and not feel bad about it.
>> How did you get to that state?
>> I think it's a lot of reflecting. Yeah.
>> OK.
>> Yeah, it's a lot of reflecting. Looking back, just, like now I don't know. My example would be because I don't know
that I don't know, I just do it. And then by doing it, I learn something. And then that led to additional things, for example
like opportunities or just me [inaudible] if I didn't show up to the [inaudible] Fresno events, I would never have met you
and I wouldn't ever have had this conversation.
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>> Right. And you're mentoring untold numbers of southeast Asians [laughing] with your story.
>> Right. So I mean, it's just a [inaudible], I guess. Like when I'm in my [inaudible] I'm looking up YouTube videos and
they're talking about [inaudible] and 80% of the time all that matters is that you showed up.
>> Right.
>> Which -- and 20 is doing it [laughing].
>> Is this -- I mean, is this your personality you've had since third grade or is this a new personality? Is it innate or
developed? Or both?
>> I think it's developed.
>> OK.
>> Yeah. I didn't realize it until realizing that this is -- it's natural that people don't know. And then it's natural that you
feel like you don't know.
>> OK.
>> And you have to be OK with that. And again, by showing up, not everyone wants to just go do random things
because one you feel uncomfortable. You don't know anyone.
>> Right.
>> And yeah. You don't -- but again, learning to be comfortable while not knowing anyone. Develop habits by actually
getting up and doing things, going to random places, and be comfortable meeting people. Be open about things that
you're doing. Share your ideas. There are other things I'm practicing now to better build networks and meet people. Put
yourself in an environment where you will actually meet people because being in your room wouldn't help.
>> Right [laughing].
>> With meeting people. And so, yeah. There's so many advantages to being behind a computer and doing work
because whatever you're working on needs to be done. But there's also times when you need to put aside to meet people
randomly or purposefully. And so yeah. Developing those habits are important. And I don't know. Like, I'm still
working on it. I don't know if there's a formula. For me, I wake up in the morning and go for a run. It's just you run. And
to develop that habit, it took me three years.
>> Wow.
>> So as an undergrad -- four years now. As an undergrad, I loved college and I was a little bit overweight. And so I
worked towards losing weight. But in that process of losing weight, I learned that I feel more -- if I think about, I should
get up, then I just get up. Whereas back then I would say, oh I should get up, I'd never get up because I don't, I guess -you know energized? The energy. And so having, developing ways to just act on command. Yeah. I don't know how to
[inaudible].
>> No, you're very articulate. I mean, these are just great advice [laughing].
>> Yeah, what was the other question?
>> Well, actually, do you -- you know, you're very motivated. You seem to have a personality that helps a lot of people.
You got into so many programs. Like, to intern at the state, the Hmong community, actually at UC Merced as well.
Thinking back, what helped you do it? And you talked about your cousins that helped you, right? And the subclan. Can
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you think of any other community ablers that helped you go to college and graduate? And I'm thinking specifically of
religion. Do you think your religion helped you? Or no effect?
>> Right. So I would say that just the general [inaudible] practice can encompass a bit of religious practice and belief.
The Hmong community has a weird religion, cultural, spiritual intertwining thing. I don't think -- also, I think it's that
way because we don't have enough studies to better understand it and so the way we look at it is kind of like a ball. Like
everything is just kind of together. I would say events, the way you do things. I would say there is some sort of
relationship between the way you [inaudible] and their religious factors, how it influences you as a person.
>> Do you think that -- are you shaman? Are you Christian? Are you Mormon? Catholic? Do you think that had any
effect on you at all?
>> [Sighs] In Arizona, there was always that question of, like, shamanism and belief in spirits. In going through, I don't
think it is going to influence me directly both indirectly would be the answer.
>> OK.
>> And I guess my question throughout my study [inaudible] as well. How did it influence me? Or not just me, but
other people. Because I can't see myself. But I try to look at other people and see how their religion and their culture
influence their decisions on things. And also, the biggest thing isn't the decisions, but the perspective of those decisions.
Not necessarily one is right, I would say. It's more of like, oh it's right to them so it's right.
>> OK, yes [laughing]. So you can't see yourself so you don't know the answer of if it influenced you [laughing]?
>> Right. I wouldn't -- I would say if there was any, it was probably minimal.
>> OK.
>> Because I know that my sister -- I can't remember a time. Because I believe [inaudible] you believe in the [inaudible]
or the religious practice of the Hmong people, you would actually pray for help if you need help.
>> Right.
>> I never actually remember a time when I was scared or afraid [inaudible].
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. For me to pray for help from my grandparents. Although my parents did. They have their Hmong, you know,
stuff and I participate in them. I couldn't remember a time when I initiated a prayer.
>> Ah, interesting. So thinking back about any cultural things that you grew up with in Fresno, were you part of any -- I
know this sounds strange, but were you part of any breakdancing crew or kind of cultural? Growing up from K through
12, were you part of any, like, I don't know, some community event that happened? That, do you think that might've
helped you go to college at all or influenced you at all? A bridge, in a way?
>> Yeah, so I think -- I mean, I tried but I was not that good a dancer [laughing]. So I know of the groups. The answer is
my cousin [inaudible] but I wasn't a part of it.
>> OK.
>> I went to those events, but I wouldn't say I was a breakdancer.
>> OK [laughing].
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>> I would say of the -- I was an eighth grader. Was I an eighth grader? Or somewhere around that time. I volunteered. I
volunteered a lot when I was -- I still volunteer now. But I volunteered as a Young Christian -- [inaudible] at the Water
Festival at that time. I don't know if you know the Water Festival.
>> What is that?
>> So the Water Festival was held by the, I think, Laos family at that time to celebrate pretty much the Water Festival
which happens in, I think, in the Thai culture and Laos culture. But the Hmong too have it as well. It's kind of like the J4
-- July 4th. It happens -- yeah. And so about that time -- it happens, I think, in May. And then so it's a coincidence but
when July 4th -- no, not July 4th. But when Water Fest stopped happening, the Hmong Music Festival took over that
weekend. So the Memorial Weekend used to be the Water Festival. But I volunteered as the booth manager. So I was
managing [inaudible].
>> OK [laughing].
>> But yeah, that was it. That's all I can remember as growing up as a young person. I was really involved with my
immediate family, though, for weekend events.
>> OK.
>> For example, when there are celebrations, ceremonial stuff, funerals, weddings, all that stuff. So I was involved with
those, the cultural aspect. But I was not very much involved with the young people culture. And I think even now I'm
still not really involved with those, with that community.
>> OK. So the last part -- thank you so much. These are like such well-thought answers and I thank you so much for
these introspective deep answers. So now we're trying to make the university warm, like a non-chilly environment for
Hmong students. How do you think we can make it more warm for Hmong students? For example, would you want to
have smaller classes?
>> Yes. I think that would work.
>> OK.
>> But it would be integrative, not just Hmong students in the classroom.
>> OK. What ->> [Inaudible] would be good. And how to develop that whole class culture is ->> OK.
>> I wouldn't know how to do that. I think. Yeah. I would say because when I went to grad school, it was different from
undergraduate. It was more interactive. And I spoke -- you know, I was often afraid to speak because me and my
colleagues were a lot more experienced and much older than I am. But over time I learned that it's OK for me to say
anything. It doesn't matter. And [inaudible] is the only one who knew about it because I was talking about Hmong
people.
>> Oh! OK.
>> Yeah. And so no one knew about it [laughing]. So I was like, yeah, I was very confident talking about Hmong
people.
>> OK. What about co-ethnic professors? I don't know about UC Merced, but we do have quite a few Hmong
professors. Would you want more Hmong professors?
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>> Right. So that's the other part. Having faculties that are of the ethnic group is great because then it actually leads to
additional research and research opportunities for students who are a certain ethnic group because what I realized is
when you're trying to go to a PhD program and you understand research about Hmong people, most times you'll be
researching with them as a Hmong professor because no one else care about Hmong people. Not that they don't care but
[laughing] again, it's very limited in terms of the way that you do your research.
>> Right.
>> The professors are more interested in certain things because funding is kind of heading that direction.
>> Right. It's by the population, so yeah [laughing].
>> Right. And so it's tough. It's tough to have students who want to go into doctoral programs specifically focused on
probably a subethnic group.
>> Right.
>> At the research I'll be still medical, but on the Hmong community or on a certain other ethnic group, it's hard because
then you don't have enough exposure if you have mainly professors who are focused on only medical and, you know,
general medical stuff. So it's kind of hard to find that fit because each time a professor will want a student who fits into
their research interests.
>> Correct. What about more co-ethnic classmates and also more co-ethnic clubs? Would you want that?
>> So, yes. But instead of clubs, because when I was at UC Merced, I actually got into this interesting part in student
organization life. I realized clubs can become programs.
>> Right.
>> Through a certain process. And at Merced there wasn't one yet because we didn't have that question from [inaudible]
before. But I think my sophomore year, no junior year, a club proposed to convert from a club to program. And at that
time they didn't have any answers for the club because they weren't [inaudible] and so no one was prepared for it. But I
think instead of having clubs, having an actual program that focused on [inaudible] retention I think will be much more
effective. And also there still should be clubs because then you have that relationship where students are actually
running certain things and then it's also support for the students. I met with Cindy, I think, Newing, and also Jared -- it's
[inaudible] -- but they run the Asian American Center [inaudible] Center. And it's very sad to hear that -- well, it's sad to
hear. But they're supposedly the model for each Asian American center in the world. I guess [inaudible] the nation.
>> Really?
>> And they're only funded through person. And this is Stanford.
>> Oh!
>> This is Stanford.
>> You know, unfortunately, yeah. We have zero people at Fresno state, actually.
>> Yeah. Right, right, right. So that's what I'm saying. It's sad because the demographic here for Asian Americans is
huge.
>> It is?
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>> [inaudible] and Asian in general.
>> OK.
>> There's a lot of Asians here at Stanford [laughing].
>> Really?
>> And there's only two [inaudible]. Yes.
>> Wow!
>> There's a lot of Asians here [laughing]. And there's only two staff that kind of run the center.
>> Wow.
>> And for a long time it wasn't even funded by the institution. It was funded by private donors and whatever until
recently they got funding. I actually, there's actually a first generation diversity office here as well. And recently they
just got funding as well. So, when you're looking at like these bigger institutions that have been around for, like, much
longer and it's obviously privately funded, they still have such low budget programing for retention. Maybe because
Stanford and a lot of them [inaudible] you now, poor low income.
>> Right.
>> Or needed help for [inaudible] but that might be the case.
>> Hmm.
>> But the case there for Fresno State is different because we know the existing demographic. We know the actual
problem that exists within the certain demographical group. And so it would be important to have some sort of program
that would support this and facilitate this so that we can [inaudible].
>> Right.
>> And we can probably or possibly define what is needed to support the [inaudible] and I'm sure it started many of
these -- many of the solutions cannot be solved just through Fresno State. There's probably other things that need to be
in place to support the students and also their family and that may be at the lower level, like K12. But I would say I'm
surprised that they're [inaudible] I'm surprised they have no office that could support retention and also [inaudible] and
diversity at Fresno State.
>> We actually do not have anyone [laughing]. Zero. But ->> Yeah. So I'm like, but hearing that here at Stanford, I'm like wow that's crazy. How you guys are the model for other
people and you guys only have two people?
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> That sounds amazing to me, actually. Like, wow, you have two?
>> Yeah, right? [inaudible] OK, that's great [laughing] but then when you have something it's just like, OK, well why
don't you have more? Because maybe -- and then obviously they're taking a lot of programming from that [inaudible]
getting connected with students and such. And so my curiosity [inaudible] basically the same thing where, you know,
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where students don't come because they don't know about that. Or maybe the ones who are coming are performing high
and they don't really need the support. So that's what I realized when I came here to the workshop back in April. That
was the workshop called Institutional Change. And the vice provost here at Stanford held it. She's the new vice provost
and she wanted to get, you know, input from the community. And I went and I realized, this room is really small. I was
expecting more students to show up. Being there, I was the only visiting graduate student who was unofficially enrolled.
I got emails from them because I had an email. But I'm not -- I wasn't even going to be a student until the summer
[laughing].
>> Wow.
>> And he was probably like, what are you doing here? But I showed up because I wanted to find out more. But many
of the folks there, many of them were probably higher performing, really active students who knew what was going on
on campus and they were there kind of just speaking on the behalf of probably those students who they think they know
the answer to [inaudible] have the solutions for. I wouldn't know just because I wouldn't be able to like give you the
100% of this is how you solve, you know, this graduation rate. Because I'm the one who did it -- a graduate. It's the one
who didn't -- like why didn't you graduate? Probably if there's a way to measure it, why they didn't graduate ->> We know by looking at it that there is some correlation within the class. So they're not [inaudible] ->> Is there an exit interview?
>> Not that I know of. I'm going to ask that. I know the UCs have -- all the UCs have an exit interview but I don't know
about the Cal States. That's something I'll ask for. But for sure the UCs have exit interview. So that day at the UCs, for
sure Merced will have it. But I don't know about Fresno. I'll have to enquire because that would be great if they had an
exit interview.
>> Right.
>> So my last question is advice to third generation. So a lot of the Hmong now are like 12 or 13 or somewhere around
high school so they're coming up close. Third generation.
>> Yeah.
>> What advice for that -- if you, in the ideal world, what advice can you tell them? What advice do you have to the
third and fourth generation about higher education to kind of graduate?
>> So one would be reflection.
>> Reflection.
>> Find a way -- right. Find a way to document or just set up [inaudible] times to just reflect on what you're doing.
Because I think a lot of times students go through undergrad going through undergrad and not really realizing [laughing]
what they're doing in undergrad because I think a lot of times life just kind of passes you. You know, the next day
comes, you continue, and you keep going. And eventually people don't know why they're doing it. And I think in
undergrad it gets difficult. Reflection is important, reflecting on things that you've done and why it's important.
Understanding why they're an undergrad and the purpose. [inaudible] keep developing purpose and also sustaining or
changing purpose.
>> OK.
>> So that it fits what they're doing. It's important. Exposure -- and the other part. Exposure is important because if you
don't expose yourself to certain materials or contents or people then you don't know what's really out there. The other
part would be read your books [laughing].
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>> Read your books? [laughing]
>> Yeah, read your books. And the reading part, it's not so much a, you're not doing it for the professor. You're reading
it for you.
>> OK.
>> I think a lot of the time -- in undergrad, I can attest to this -- because a lot of the times you do things because you
think the professor will give you a better grade because you tested well probably. But more of the material that the
professor provides is more for you to learn as a person.
>> OK.
>> And to develop your way of thinking and understanding why things are the way they are in the field that you're
studying. So reading material is important. Research is also important.
>> Research.
>> Getting involved. Yes. Getting involved with professors. And again, it could just be entering data. It could be
reading articles, literature review. And the other part is asking questions.
>> Oh thank you.
>> Yes.
>> You can say that again. Asking questions [laughing].
>> Yeah. Asking questions is important as well. Questions during class, outside of class, and also probably [inaudible]
it's not because you don't understand. And then feel free to go when you don't understand.
>> How about asking for help?
>> Yes. So asking for help as well. Getting connected with not only the professor, but peers in your classroom, being
open to just introducing yourself to people in your classroom is important. It's a learning process that you learn. It's part
of a learning process that you learn with your peers and also your professors and people outside of your classroom. So
also the application of the material you learn is important as well.
>> OK.
>> So that's also positive feedback. So one thing I'm currently doing now is -- one thing I'm doing is not being afraid to
mass email people or professors for help.
>> [Laughing] OK.
>> Yeah and so being here at Stanford I wanted to get involved with [inaudible] research and it was tough because
[inaudible] super late already. But I ended up emailing about 60 professors.
>> Oh my goodness!
>> And I got one response back. I didn't ask them all in one email but I individually sent emails.
>> Right. That's what I was going to say. Don't mass email. Individually send each person [laughing].
>> Yeah. So yeah, I put their name on there and everything. And yeah. And so I got one response. I'm currently working
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with a professor on math learning in mid-level education, so like fifth and ninth grade. So teaching math so that students
will want to learn math more.
>> Great.
>> So we're doing some of that.
>> Yeah. And also being here, asking questions, meeting people, going to random seminars that I have no idea what it's
about. It's been great. Yeah, I went to one that was on engineering, microgrids. They were talking about things that I
kind of understood -- like, you know, [inaudible] and stuff like that and then it got to very detailed, like, engineering
stuff. And I didn't know what they were talking about. But sitting there and just kind of thinking about things they were
talking about. And relating them back to the field I'm interested in was good.
>> Wow. This is a behemoth amount of advice. That's excellent. So thank you! [Laughing] Is there anything about, any
last advice on self-care at all that you might want to give the students? Self-care if they're stressed out? Like, any advice
for that [laughing]?
>> Self-care. I would say don't beat yourself up.
>> OK.
>> For doing, like, making mistakes.
>> Or even getting a bad grade or, you know, flunking a class. Who cares [laughing]?
>> Getting a bad grade. If you're trying to be on a diet, don't beat yourself up for eating a doughnut. The thing is maybe
you [inaudible] up next time you're now less likely to even continue because you're already so bad. You're like, oh well,
I'm already doing bad so I'm just going to [inaudible] do bad. Whereas you can say, it's OK. One doughnut's alright.
Next time, I'm going to do something else.
>> OK.
>> It's different. And so I guess just the way you think about yourself. Positive environment. So meet people and get to
know people who are in the same vibe, positive vibes.
>> Great.
>> Self-care. Yeah, the self-care would be treat yourself to new places. So do some traveling here and there.
>> Oh!
>> Because undergraduate is great, so it's great to travel.
>> Travel.
>> It's always great to travel, expose yourself to different places.
>> OK.
>> So that's also one. The other would be take advantage of free food on campus.
>> Free food [laughing]. Yes! Free food, yes [laughing].
>> There's always free food. Free food equals new information.
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>> OK.
>> So and also there's free food.
>> OK, yes. I love that advice! [laughing]
>> Yeah. The other self-care would be take time to do nothing. Yeah. Take some time if you're already doing so much
already to do nothing and sit there and just be OK with not doing anything.
>> Great. OK. So just do nothing. That means like no internet, no -- does that mean no Instagram? [laughing]
>> Yeah, like, it's just staring at something.
>> OK.
>> It could be a, yeah, as simple as that. I think there's a lot of stuff that you do and those who are really busy they are
always planning things and it gets kind of overwhelming. So it's OK to just sit there and look outside the window
[inaudible].
>> Yeah, just clear your brain.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, awesome!
>> I did that with running, but whoever, like whatever way you need to do it, just clear your brain.
>> Yeah. Physical exercise is by far the greatest. So I assume you run in nature or do you run at the gym?
>> I run outside.
>> Oh great!
>> So yeah.
>> In nature.
>> It's been great so far here at Stanford. In the morning there's a lot of people running here as well.
>> Oh!
>> They're here, like, running with their peers. Because I'm living on campus.
>> Oh wow. OK. So that is a very long list of advice. And I think if the students had half of your list, they would be like
super successful. So thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to add? If not, I'll close out the interview
because this has been phenomenal [laughing]. So I can't thank you enough.
>> Nope. That's pretty much it for now. If there's anything in the future, I could probably just shoot you an email. Or if
there's any other questions that you have, like, I'm more than open to share it because I think it's important to share
information. It's better than just leaving it randomly somewhere.
>> Right. Like, don't hoarde it. Just, yeah. So OK. Let me turn off my recorder here.
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you so much for participating. If you can say your name and spell it.
>> OK. So hi. My name is Thong Vang. Thong as in T-H-O-N-G. Vang as in V-A-N-G.
>> Thank you. Thong, if you can give me verbal permission to deposit your interview today in our Successful Southeast
Asian Voices archive as well as give me verbal permission to cite you in any article or book on successful southeast
Asians.
>> Yes, I give you consent.
>> Great! Thank you. Alright. Can you tell me your gender?
>> I am male.
>> Can you tell me your birth year?
>> Sorry. Can you repeat that?
>> The year that you're born only.
>> Oh, the year. OK. 1991.
>> Can you tell me your undergraduate major and the college you went to?
>> I did my undergraduate in psychology and I went to UC Merced.
>> Can you tell me your generation in the United States?
>> I'll be first generation. Technically generation 1.5.
>> Excellent. How old were you when you were -- you were born in, you said, Thailand? How old were you when you
came to the US?
>> I was one.
>> Oh! Yeah, you would be 1.5. Some people would actually define you as second generation, I guess. But it depends
on who defines you [laughing]. What's your mother and father's highest education?
>> My father's education is high school and my mom's, some middle school.
>> Great. What is your GPA?
>> Currently? Or? Right now I'm currently out of school.
>> Oh, whatever.
>> So when I graduated from undergrad, I was 3.2. And then my graduate was 3.9.
>> Oh goodness gracious, that's quite high. Excellent. What is your ultimate degree? I mean, so you have a BA at UC
Merced. What is your MA in?
>> In organizational behavior.
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>> Oh wow!
>> And I would like to get a doctorate within the concentration of organizational study but I'm not exactly sure where
and what field yet.
>> So do you think it will be at Stanford or ->> I'm hoping to -- I don't know where exactly, but I would like to apply to Stanford hopefully one day. That's in the
plan and it's in the works.
>> OK.
>> Yeah.
>> OK after this, I have someone to direct you to talk to. OK? About that.
>> OK.
>> OK, great. Growing up, what was the social economics of your family? Was it working class? Middle class?
Affluent?
>> My parents have always worked. My dad had two jobs for a while. And then my mom was a stay-at-home mom.
Yeah.
>> And what high school did you go to? And was it private or public?
>> I went to a public high school in [inaudible] Clovis High School.
>> Clovis High School. Where is Clovis High School? Is that Clovis west, east, or north?
>> So it's not a part of the [inaudible] directions. It's actually just Clovis High School. It's located on Barstow and
Fowler, I believe. Yeah.
>> OK. And what was the racial demographics of your high school?
>> I think at the time I was there, it was predominantly Caucasian, some Hispanic. I don't know the number, but there
was very little black. And there was a good number of Asian but then mainly southeast Asian Hmong.
>> Interesting. So my question is this. Why do Hmong, why do Hmongs go to college? And why do they do not go to
college?
>> Sorry. You got cut off for a little. Could you repeat the question?
>> I'm sorry. Why do southeast Asians, or particularly Hmong, why do they go to college? And why do they do not go
to college?
>> I think, although I can only speak for myself, I went to college because in my family I had a lot of [inaudible] who
went to college. And they were sort of wanting to motivate me to go because they were going. In a way, in retrospect,
looking back now, I see that it was -- I guess it was a college-going culture in my family because the older folks are
going. So I decided that I needed to go. And then I looked up ways or asked for help on ways to get to where I wanted to
go. And in ninth grade I had a work project, an assignment where I interview my cousin who got his masters at that
time.
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>> Wow.
>> In guidance counseling from Fresno State. And so I -- originally I thought I wanted to be a counselor until I asked
some questions about what did he do [inaudible]. Also, my first cousins, many of them were girls and they were the
older ones in the family. And so they helped me a lot.
>> Oh!
>> I think that throughout my academic career, many women have helped me to get to where I'm at. So I just want to
mention that.
>> Wow. That's a -- thank you for mentioning that. How did they help you specifically?
>> They helped me by editing my personal statements.
>> Oh.
>> They motivate me by just having conversations about all of the things that we're doing. And they also showed me
how to do things for [inaudible] workwise or [inaudible] volunteers, joining clubs. And they also provided, I would say,
I don't want to say financially but while I visited with them in college, they took me out to see all these cool things in
college.
>> Ooh. So then who helped them? I mean, so they helped you. Who helped them to kind of do those things?
>> I think for them they had to sort of figure it out themselves. I'm sure it wasn't someone within their families because
my family came to the United States early on and so many of the folks at that time did not go to college. So I'm
assuming it was probably someone like teachers or personal educators that they knew when they were going to school.
And many of them we're very high-performing young ladies, and so ->> Did they go to your same high school?
>> No. They actually did not. My first cousin went to Fresno. And it was three of them that were all visiting me who
were in college. One went to Fresno State. The other one went to Toronto State, did her bachelors in, I think it was
graphic design. The other one went to UC Berkeley, did her bachelors in anthropology and the other one went to UC
Davis where she did hers in child development. And then the -- oh there's four. The fourth one ->> Oh wow!
>> Went to Davis and did hers in economic development, I believe.
>> So it seems your family is very highly educated, very unique. Why? Does your family as a general theme -- your
family and their family? Was educated pushed by your family? And your extended family?
>> I think in my -- yeah, like from my first cousins, my dad's aunt, like brothers, it was. It was a high push for
[inaudible] because I think within my whole bigger clan family, we had like the youngest families. Every [inaudible]
leader we came up [inaudible] was the youngest.
>> OK.
>> And we came later in the years so whereby we're like second to the last group that came. And so ->> Oh wow.
>> there was the 2005 group and then we came in the 90s which was like the group before the last group.
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>> So are you speaking about the Vangs?
>> Excuse me?
>> When you say clan, are you speaking about the Vangs?
>> Right. Not Vang specifically, the broader umbrella of Vangs but then the subclans of the Vangs. There are subclans.
>> Oh! OK.
>> And so specifically to the grandpa. The way that I understand it is that I'm related to the other Vangs in Fresno and
San Diego and Minnesota.
>> Oh wow.
>> We share my great-grandpa, five generations back.
>> How interesting!
>> And then were they helping you at all in education? Or, so are you saying that some of the Vangs went to college
before you and they were helping you? Or? How did that ->> Yeah, yeah.
>> Trickle down to you [laughing].
>> Yeah. So my uncle, his son was the only one that went to college. The one that I interviewed for, who graduated
from Princeton with his masters. He is related to me. I think three generations back we share like a great-grandpa.
>> Oh wow!
>> And then so I interviewed his, my uncle's son. His son. Him, specifically, he didn't really give me a lot of like -other than give me the insights on, you know, what he did and stuff like that, there wasn't much to the engagement. I
think it was more engagement between me and my first cousins, especially the [inaudible] woman and my first cousin
circle. But he was definitely a motivation because there weren't that many Hmong male in my circle.
>> Interesting.
>> In the Vang family clan. [inaudible] and then my sub Vang family clan, not the bigger ->> OK.
>> Who went to school. And in general, even now I think I'm the only son who went to college, or within the Vang
family that went to college.
>> Why do you think that's so?
>> Aside from the ones who I interviewed. There are a few from San Diego that went to college. I think two or three of
them that got their bachelors in engineering.
>> Oh wow!
>> But I met them later on in my life, like recently like about three years.
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>> OK. Interesting.
>> Because when I was younger, I had seen them. I had met them but I didn't know what they do or what they were
involved with. But I don't know. I don't know why many of my brothers, cousins did not go. My brother, my immediate
family, we are going to school. So my younger brother is at Fresno State.
>> Great!
>> He's going for computer science.
>> OK.
>> And then my youngest brother is at [inaudible] studying cognitive science.
>> Interesting. So is it you have kind of like trail blazed it for your direct family? Or did someone in your direct family
went for your -- not your cousins, but in your direct family, did anyone go to college before you?
>> No, I'm the oldest son so I went to college.
>> Oh wow! So how are you helping them out [laughing]?
>> Right. So I think for my youngest brother, since he's going to UC Merced, we, because my two younger sisters -- so
I have in my family five total. I'm the oldest. I have two younger sisters who are, like, chronologically like eight after
me. And then the two sons or brothers are the two younger ones. And so me, my sisters went to UC Merced together.
>> Oh OK.
>> We all kind of went to UC Merced. And so we sort of had an idea of what, how UC Merced is, like, the institution
and how it's organized and being involved, being actively involved with the university, we were aware of so many
resources that were available for students. And then because Merced is a small university, a lot small university, the
resources are more apparent and it's more visible. Aside from, you know, it's because being not a big university you
have so many resources whereas it gets overwhelming. And I can attest to that being here at Stanford. There's so much
resources but it's like there's many research to look at.
>> Right.
>> Like, where do you start?
>> Correct.
>> And so Merced was, it was simple. There weren't that many resources but there were enough resources where you
can tell this is what I need and I can go get help.
>> Thinking back, Thong, thinking back of when you were in high school, were you part of any outward bound trio or
Avid program at all?
>> No. I was not in the Avid bound or Trio. I heard about it.
>> What about when you went to UC Merced? Were you part of any summer bridge program at all at UC Merced?
>> No. I was not. I was aware of the summer bridge program, but I think it was because of financial, like money. I
didn't know how that was going to go down in terms of who should pay for what and so I didn't have money for a
[inaudible] or summer bridge.
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>> Those are all free, but [laughing] ->> What?
>> Those are all free, so it's interesting you didn't know that they were free, kind of helping things. Maybe too much
information [laughing]. OK. Go on.
>> No, like, I wasn't sure because I looked at the number and then I clicked on all the financial aid stuff and there was a
discrepancy between the amount that was going to be provided and there was, you know, a [inaudible] or the amount for
the program. And so I was like, no, I can't afford that.
>> OK.
>> But if I could go back, yes I would do that.
>> Oh! I didn't know at UC Merced they make you pay because at Fresno State, it's free.
>> I think at UC Merced they still have to pay.
>> [Gasp] My goodness!
>> I don't know.
>> OK.
>> I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know if [inaudible] that would subsidize the expense.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> But if they were, it would be great to know as an incoming student. That would have been great if I could have done
the summer bridge program, yeah.
>> OK. Great. So thinking back at your high school, were you, did the teachers have a high expectation of you as a
person? As a student?
>> Right. So looking back, I don't know how exactly, how I made it out of high school, and how I got into college
[laughing] because I wasn't the EL student. And for some reason, the way my, I don't know. The way that [inaudible]
trying to get more students who needed a lot of support working out with, like, English. They would put you in the EL
class where you or you're categorized as an EL student and then put you in the EL classroom.
>> What is that? What is that? What is EL? What's that?
>> English Learner.
>> Oh, OK.
>> Yes. And so, for -- yeah, English as a second language learner. Because I don't know how that went down in terms
of like, OK, you take this EL course and then you will take another English class, you know, to make sure that you have
the full year, you meet the full year requirements for a university. Or you just take the EL class only and you don't get to
take an English class because, you know, your major, you have a packed schedule. I don't know how all that worked.
But fortunately I was not placed in the EL class. So I was put into regular English courses.
>> Do you think that was a good thing or a bad thing?
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>> I think it was good.
>> OK.
>> Because then I didn't just speak Hmong because for a long time I didn't speak English.
>> OK.
>> Growing up I spoke a lot of Hmong. I was very quiet [laughing]. And I think being in a regular English class, I
mean, it definitely put me out of my comfort zone because I didn't know anything. But at the same time, it exposed me
to different groups of people. And it sort of pushed me to work with people who are not like myself. I don't know what
it would have been like if I was in the EL class because I wasn't, so I can't tell you the difference between the two.
>> OK. Thinking back, what was your high school's teachers' expectations of Hmong students? Was it high, medium,
low?
>> See that's the ->> Or neutral?
>> I think yeah. I can't remember a time back that -- I can say that within the classes I had [inaudible] they were
expecting, yeah, high performance and you perform on par with the peers.
>> OK. Thinking back also from now to back then, do you remember any notable media depictions of your ethnic group
in the media at all?
>> Right. There was, I think when I was in high school. So media depiction ->> Hmong, yeah.
>> Right. 2000 -- when was high school? 2013-14? 13? 14? 15? No, 15, 16, 17. No. 16. Sorry. I'm not [inaudible]. I
mean 2006, 7, 8, and 9. Right. So that was during the time when [inaudible] and the group were arrested. So no, I don't
think there was any positive depiction of the Hmong community because I think we're such a small community that if
you say Hmong, it's almost like, [inaudible].
>> Uh-huh. So ->> Yeah.
>> So, what? So you heard about [inaudible]? What did you hear? I mean, that was the only media depiction?
>> Right. I think then, that time, that was the biggest that I can remember or recall. [inaudible] ->> What was he arrested for?
>> I believe for trying to overthrow the Laos government.
>> Oh OK!
>> I don't know what the actual plans were or the actual accusations of what they did, but I think that's the general idea
of why they're being arrested or why he even got arrested to start off with.
>> Was it in the United States or they were arrested in Laos?
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>> In the United States.
>> Oh, Ok. Hmm. Interesting. Secret history. I've never heard of this.
>> So it wasn't just him but it was a group of other folks who were arrested with him. I think there were 10 or 11, one of
those numbers. Yes, it was a lot of media in regards to that, a lot of commotion. And in the community I remember I
actually went to Sacramento to see, you know, the rally. Or participate in the rally.
>> Was it a rally to support him? Or what was the rally about?
>> Yeah, to support him and for him to be released.
>> OK. And eventually he was released, right?
>> Yes.
>> OK. Great. Interesting. So was there any other media depictions of the Hmong community? I mean, social media?
NBC? [laughing]
>> Yeah, so I don't think -- I wasn't on social media at that time [laughing].
>> OK [laughing].
>> I think it was, but I wasn't. It wasn't Facebook. It wasn't news feed and, you know, information. It was more like, oh
here's your page.
>> OK [laughing].
>> But yeah. I would say at that time I didn't watch that many news as well.
>> OK.
>> And probably because I didn't understand a lot of things that were going on. I didn't understand really what they
were talking about. I can't -- yeah.
>> And this is when you were in high school, right?
>> Yes.
>> So thinking back through your high school, you said you went to Clovis High School. Do you think they
academically prepared you well enough for UC Merced?
>> I would say yes and no because I did Cart.
>> What is Cart? What is that?
>> Cart is, I think it's part of their program similar to RRP -- it's not similar to RRP. It's like a technical training
program. And it's for Center -- I think it's Center for Advanced Research and Technology. That's what it stands for.
CART.
>> OK.
>> CART is where I kind of got some of my, oh you know, you should do some research on this. And you present it and
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stuff like that. And I would say that was my experience of what I did that sort of prepared me for UC Merced. It's just
like like, research, you know, writing papers, and stuff like that. I didn't take traditional English. The English we had to
do with CART was more focused on research.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. We didn't get the literature beast reading and writing, I would say. Yeah, so ->> What about math?
>> Math? I took math at Clovis. I think it did in a way. I took stats and probability as my senior year math course. It
gave me some idea of how to do math and then stats in college but I think, I think I'm still kind of fuzzy on that. I could
do many of the, like, basic math stuff, but it wasn't like calculus or trig. Yeah.
>> So you said in this way this did prepare you? In what ways did it not prepare you for college?
>> I think the writing. But I mean, I don't know if that's because I'm a [inaudible] and my growth, my learning curve for
English is just different. And yeah, I don't know if that's the reason why. I think they did what they could to support me
and teach me. I think they did a decent job. But I think the difficult part was junior and senior year.
>> Oh junior and senior year. OK.
>> Yeah. And so my freshman and sophomore year was, I think it was good but I don't know if I can say what helped,
what didn't help. But what really stood out to me was CART.
>> So you graduated UC Merced and went on to grad school with a quite, very high GPA. Do you, I mean, do you
remember any barriers you had? You second you are in a second English, second language learner. Did you think that
you had any other barriers in college? For instance, do you think your life would be easier if you were a female? Like a
gender barrier?
>> I don't know. I wouldn't say there's a gender barrier. I would say probably resource.
>> Resource.
>> And knowing that the resource exists, like is there, and why it's important to take advantage of the resource.
>> Yes. That's great advice.
>> Right. So yeah. I think one of the questions you had was if I can go back or what I've done, the barriers. I mean,
what I did mainly in undergrad was I was really involved in clubs and organizations and campus life and also the
community of Merced.
>> Great!
>> Which was great for me too. It's a different route. But if I wanted to be, I think, you know, in a PhD program and
doing research and -- I think it would've been helpful if I would have been more invlvld on the research end with
professors.
>> OK.
>> And I think one other barrier is me not going to the professor and saying, hey, and tell them I can do research. What
can I do?
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>> And I think to start off before even that, you even get there, before you even get me to go there, I think it was the
fact that I was not confident with my language. Yeah. And so I was afraid that if I approached a professor and I didn't
know what I was talking about, I would have been, like, ignored or, you know, think of that I'm stupid.
>> Whereas probably they would be overjoyed that anyone would ask to help them [laughing].
>> Right, right.
>> Right.
>> So I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And so ->> And then ->> Sorry, what?
>> Oh, no. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
>> Oh yeah, yeah. And so I would say confidence [laughing]. That's the other part. Confidence in your ability. You just
perform. And I think a lot of times we don't get that. Especially when you're going through this by yourself, especially if
you're a first generation going through college and you can but you don't know that you can. Like, everyone one else is
just like you. I mean, there's definitely some students who are definitely performing higher and cognitively they're more
developed and because of the exposure they had, they are now more aware of things. And when you talk to them, you're
definitely talking to, like, probably the 1% of the [inaudible] population right? But there are a lot of students who don't
know as well. And going to college as a first generation goer, you don't know that.
>> And in this case, when you didn't know things, did you text your cousins for advice? Or did they? For instance, you
said you were involved in clubs? What clubs? And you said you were involved in the community. What community and
what did you do? Can you speak more about that?
>> Yes. So my cousins are there and they continue to support me with writing. And so they edit my papers sometimes.
And they were involved in clubs, so that's the direction I took into clubs and organizations and campus life. And then,
well it was an organization first. So an organization that kind of led me to campus involvement, led me to the decision
of Merced. I was involved in the Hmong Student Association there. Originally going there, I wanted to start a club but
then there was already one so I didn't want to start another one. And then I was with the club for about four years.
>> Oh!
>> With the time, I kind of went from member from being a member to being an officer and then went on to being
president of the club, but ->> That's excellent! Go on.
>> I think of being a member opened my eyes to the possibility of controlling things. You know, what I want, because
Merced's a small university and it's a [inaudible] university. There's so much, there's so many directions that we could
take. And so I, that was where I became a representative for Decision. It's not a club, but it's a [inaudible] under the
university student government which is called ICC Interclub Council.
>> OK.
>> It was a budgetary committee that kind of gives away money to clubs for when they come to propose for funding.
Aside from the big ticket funding which is from the student government, you go to this other club, this other committee
that is a representation of all clubs. So all clubs get a chance to send a representative to go on bill. And so I was the
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active rep as a member for the Hmong Student Association. I was involved with that and as second year sophomore I
became president -- not president. I became [inaudible] for the club, for the Hmong Student Association to become vice
chair for the Interclub Council.
>> What did you do as a public -- what did you do for public relations? What skills did you learn?
>> So, public relations mainly worked with people outside of the university and the club, mainly reaching out to the
Hmong community and the other communities that are not the institution. So other clubs on campus or organizations
outside of the university. Or just directly to the Hmong community itself. And so as public relations, I got a chance to
work with a commercial with Hmong TV Network.
>> Oh!
>> And so we had a commercial in collaboration with the Video Club. At UC Merced we created a short bit of Hmong
advertisement. It was really -- at the time I thought it was really neat because they didn't have that type of
advertisements. Like, 30 second, to the point, and I would say more elegant. Like, not -- no flashy language. More like
quick, informational video. And it ran for about a month before our Hmong Culture Show.
>> Wow!
>> Where we had charged the door and we had a pretty good turnout. With that we were able to fundraise $300 of
scholarship for our educational conference the year [inaudible] the next year.
>> Wow! Can you speak more of your educational conference?
>> Alright. The conference itself started when the club started in 2006 or 7. 2006 is when the club started. I don't know
when the educational conference started exactly, but I would say probably 2006 or 7. And it's mainly a one day
conference focused on providing information for the Merced, Mercedian area, Merced County area high school students
to get more information on going to college. I think at that time it was a Yield program where we were trying to get
more students to go to UC Merced. Right. But the budget was definitely a lot lower at that time. But over time we were
able to get funding and support from the university, not only from the student government but I think a few years ago
we got funding from, I want to say the Dean of the Social Sciences.
>> Great!
>> I don't know how. I mean, I believe it was probably through, like, a discretionary funds. But she or he -- I don't know
who it was because I didn't get the funding -- but that person helped us with doing bus. So we bussed students from
Merced to UC Merced because Merced itself it's a great location [inaudible] located in the middle of nowhere.
>> OK.
>> Not really but it's like five minutes and transportation is definitely a problem for some families. So we get
transportation where we went to [inaudible] High School in Merced and bussed students to the campus. But again,
mainly the conferences consist of workshop that are focused on college and how to apply to college financial aid.
>> That's great.
>> And, I believe, when you're in college what you can do.
>> In looking at those students that you bussed in -- and it seems like you are very giving. You've done, as president of
the Hmong Club, you've done a lot. Looking at those students that you have this conference, did you see any barriers
that they had?
>> So my problem, always the one I look at -- well, not my problem but the problem that I think is [inaudible] that
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they're [inaudible] here. They came because those are the folks who kind of saw that they needed stuff or needed help.
And so they came. But what happened to the folks who did not? Like, why did they not come? And it's always, I think
it's always the problem when you look at the events and programs. There are people here. Great. But the people here
don't necessarily need this service as much as the people who did not show up.
>> That's a great point. So how -- I mean, that's. Yes!
>> And so, I know that many of our students that came to the conference ended up going to college.
>> Oh great.
>> And there's also folks who came for the conference who came to the university. So they ended up coming or were
accepted. They came to the university. They joined the club. They went through the club. They became president as
well. And that's big. Right? Those are the students who sort of have an idea of what they want and so that's why they're
at where they're at. I did the same thing. So I was a high school student in college [inaudible]. I went to the educational
conference for Fresno State, which was a three-day event. And then after being a part of the conference, I became a club
member as a high school student for the [inaudible]. And then I went on to college and did the same thing in the club
there and did what I did as an undergrad. But you realize that the students who show up are the students who already
kind of have an idea of what they want to do and they just needed a little bit more nudge which is great. You know, that
push may have made a difference.
>> Right.
>> But there are still so many folks who don't know what's out there. And I see that. And again, to answer your question
about why some of the students or some of my brothers who didn't go to college, why didn't they go? It's maybe because
they didn't see it as often. They we're exposed to it enough. And maybe like you mentioned, when they were in school,
maybe their teacher, whoever it was, they the expectation may have been different. And a lot of it has to do with
probably, like, home as well. That's not just the -- you know, the school district has their hand. But yeah. My big thing is
I, you know. Great. People are here, but what about the folks who are not? And how do you get to the mass? And so that
led me to actually end up [inaudible] at UC Merced and getting involved with the Hmong TV Network.
>> Oh wow! OK.
>> To better understand media, I guess ethnic media and its influence on not only the older generation because we know
that the older generation, they watch Hmong TV and they listen to Hmong radio. I know that part. I wanted to know
how can we influence the middle working class and also the younger folks.
>> Right.
>> So some of the things that I did with them kind of opened my eyes to, I guess, the life cycle of ethnic media within
the Hmong community. And so that was fun. But going back to college, I started getting invlvvd with the Hmong Club
there, getting involved with the Student Government. I ended up actually interning at the State Capitol as well one
summer.
>> Oh wow!
>> Through the UC Sacramento program.
>> Do you recommend that? Do you recommend that to students?
>> Yes.
>> How did --
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>> Yes, I recommend that and there's also another program called PAPA.
>> What's that?
>> PAPA is -- I don't know the full name, but it's a Pacific Island organization nonprofit mainly focused on getting
Asian students engaged with the politic process and also civic engagement.
>> OK.
>> And so in my, what I went through is I did courses. So I took [inaudible] policy courses, mainly focused on K12
education and funding through the state of California. So learning that and how the process works for that part. And
then I interned for Richard [inaudible] who was at that time assembly member for the 5th district which is northern
Sacramento. So with [inaudible] were to be a part of the district office and the capital office. So I got to move around
between the two areas which was great. I got a chance to live in Sacramento with my uncle because my mom's side of
the family lived in Sacramento.
>> Oh!
>> [Inaudible] Sacramento and so I got a chance to kind of hang out with them and got to know them as well. So within
my own family, I'm very close with my mom and my dad's side of the family. And so being there was great. I got a
chance to engage with my and my family there. There aren't that many folks within my mom's side of the family who
are going to school as well. So it's just that. I don't know why. Maybe it wasn't really advertised on my mom's side of
the family. The greater Yang clan within their own family clan -- because my mom is a Yang.
>> OK.
>> They don't -- not too many of them went to college. And many of the ones that went were, you know, were women.
>> Interesting. Why do you -- like, you mentioned a lot about the gender. Why do you think there is that gender
discrepancy?
>> I [sighs] -- my observations is that maybe in the time in the Asian culture -- specifically I can speak about the
Hmong because that's all I know and have been -- is the Hmong women don't have as much leisure time as the Hmong
men. Or boys.
>> OK.
>> So growing up being a boy, you had more chance to go out there and explore. The contradiction is probably you're
exploring within your own community. And so you're hanging out with your friends who are also Hmong as well. And
it kind of builds this inter, kind of small bubble of Hmong men hanging out. And there's a lot of drinking involved
growing up. And so, even underaged drinking. And so it's -- I don't know. I don't know if that has anything to do with
like Hmong men going to college.
>> Huh.
>> But Hmong men just have a lot of leisure time.
>> OK.
>> That's what I understand. Yeah. And that's the family structure that we carry over from Laos.
>> You would think that it would be the opposite, the one that has more leisure time would go to college because you
have more time free versus --
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>> Right.
>> Hmm. Interesting.
>> But because of that, I think the Hmong women had, like, they had to stay home more and they can't go out as often.
And I think because of the time that they have, that they end up doing more school related stuff. [Inaudible] homework
is due.
>> Interesting.
>> And they actually do that homework because they can't go anywhere else.
>> Wow. That's a good observation. That's a very insightful observation. Great. Do you think that there's anything else I
didn't ask you about a possible barrier that hampers Hmong males or women from graduating college? Or even
attending college? You said a lot of different reasons.
>> Right. Yeah, you can ask. Did you say you have more questions?
>> No, I'm saying do you think I didn't ask any other -- I mean, do you think I covered all the questions for barriers?
Because I asked you about cultural barriers, financial bearers, educational barriers, gender, health, structural barriers, or
like taking care of children. I mean, you gave a lot of answers. Do you think I didn't ask -- was there anything I missed
for barriers at all or do you think you kind of, you answered it all?
>> I think that should be it. Other than the exposure and material.
>> OK. So now let's talk about you. Let's talk about [inaudible] because you are very unique in that you are very
successful. You have a bachelors and a graduate degree. Later on a PhD probably. Why do you have this drive? And
you talked about how you were an English second language learner and you've done so much. You've been president of
the Hmong Club. You've done commercials. You've been inside the community. Why are you so personally successful?
Like, what is it about your personality that drove this in you?
>> I would say curiosity. And also a lack of -- I will say lack of awareness at that moment. I mean, I often retrospect
and reflect but because I don't know and I ask. And also being OK with that. So I've learned over time to just be OK
with not knowing.
>> OK.
>> What's going on. And to just show up.
>> OK.
>> And then figure it out [laughing]. Yeah. And if I don't know, then it's OK to not know and not feel bad about it.
>> How did you get to that state?
>> I think it's a lot of reflecting. Yeah.
>> OK.
>> Yeah, it's a lot of reflecting. Looking back, just, like now I don't know. My example would be because I don't know
that I don't know, I just do it. And then by doing it, I learn something. And then that led to additional things, for example
like opportunities or just me [inaudible] if I didn't show up to the [inaudible] Fresno events, I would never have met you
and I wouldn't ever have had this conversation.
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>> Right. And you're mentoring untold numbers of southeast Asians [laughing] with your story.
>> Right. So I mean, it's just a [inaudible], I guess. Like when I'm in my [inaudible] I'm looking up YouTube videos and
they're talking about [inaudible] and 80% of the time all that matters is that you showed up.
>> Right.
>> Which -- and 20 is doing it [laughing].
>> Is this -- I mean, is this your personality you've had since third grade or is this a new personality? Is it innate or
developed? Or both?
>> I think it's developed.
>> OK.
>> Yeah. I didn't realize it until realizing that this is -- it's natural that people don't know. And then it's natural that you
feel like you don't know.
>> OK.
>> And you have to be OK with that. And again, by showing up, not everyone wants to just go do random things
because one you feel uncomfortable. You don't know anyone.
>> Right.
>> And yeah. You don't -- but again, learning to be comfortable while not knowing anyone. Develop habits by actually
getting up and doing things, going to random places, and be comfortable meeting people. Be open about things that
you're doing. Share your ideas. There are other things I'm practicing now to better build networks and meet people. Put
yourself in an environment where you will actually meet people because being in your room wouldn't help.
>> Right [laughing].
>> With meeting people. And so, yeah. There's so many advantages to being behind a computer and doing work
because whatever you're working on needs to be done. But there's also times when you need to put aside to meet people
randomly or purposefully. And so yeah. Developing those habits are important. And I don't know. Like, I'm still
working on it. I don't know if there's a formula. For me, I wake up in the morning and go for a run. It's just you run. And
to develop that habit, it took me three years.
>> Wow.
>> So as an undergrad -- four years now. As an undergrad, I loved college and I was a little bit overweight. And so I
worked towards losing weight. But in that process of losing weight, I learned that I feel more -- if I think about, I should
get up, then I just get up. Whereas back then I would say, oh I should get up, I'd never get up because I don't, I guess -you know energized? The energy. And so having, developing ways to just act on command. Yeah. I don't know how to
[inaudible].
>> No, you're very articulate. I mean, these are just great advice [laughing].
>> Yeah, what was the other question?
>> Well, actually, do you -- you know, you're very motivated. You seem to have a personality that helps a lot of people.
You got into so many programs. Like, to intern at the state, the Hmong community, actually at UC Merced as well.
Thinking back, what helped you do it? And you talked about your cousins that helped you, right? And the subclan. Can
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you think of any other community ablers that helped you go to college and graduate? And I'm thinking specifically of
religion. Do you think your religion helped you? Or no effect?
>> Right. So I would say that just the general [inaudible] practice can encompass a bit of religious practice and belief.
The Hmong community has a weird religion, cultural, spiritual intertwining thing. I don't think -- also, I think it's that
way because we don't have enough studies to better understand it and so the way we look at it is kind of like a ball. Like
everything is just kind of together. I would say events, the way you do things. I would say there is some sort of
relationship between the way you [inaudible] and their religious factors, how it influences you as a person.
>> Do you think that -- are you shaman? Are you Christian? Are you Mormon? Catholic? Do you think that had any
effect on you at all?
>> [Sighs] In Arizona, there was always that question of, like, shamanism and belief in spirits. In going through, I don't
think it is going to influence me directly both indirectly would be the answer.
>> OK.
>> And I guess my question throughout my study [inaudible] as well. How did it influence me? Or not just me, but
other people. Because I can't see myself. But I try to look at other people and see how their religion and their culture
influence their decisions on things. And also, the biggest thing isn't the decisions, but the perspective of those decisions.
Not necessarily one is right, I would say. It's more of like, oh it's right to them so it's right.
>> OK, yes [laughing]. So you can't see yourself so you don't know the answer of if it influenced you [laughing]?
>> Right. I wouldn't -- I would say if there was any, it was probably minimal.
>> OK.
>> Because I know that my sister -- I can't remember a time. Because I believe [inaudible] you believe in the [inaudible]
or the religious practice of the Hmong people, you would actually pray for help if you need help.
>> Right.
>> I never actually remember a time when I was scared or afraid [inaudible].
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. For me to pray for help from my grandparents. Although my parents did. They have their Hmong, you know,
stuff and I participate in them. I couldn't remember a time when I initiated a prayer.
>> Ah, interesting. So thinking back about any cultural things that you grew up with in Fresno, were you part of any -- I
know this sounds strange, but were you part of any breakdancing crew or kind of cultural? Growing up from K through
12, were you part of any, like, I don't know, some community event that happened? That, do you think that might've
helped you go to college at all or influenced you at all? A bridge, in a way?
>> Yeah, so I think -- I mean, I tried but I was not that good a dancer [laughing]. So I know of the groups. The answer is
my cousin [inaudible] but I wasn't a part of it.
>> OK.
>> I went to those events, but I wouldn't say I was a breakdancer.
>> OK [laughing].
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>> I would say of the -- I was an eighth grader. Was I an eighth grader? Or somewhere around that time. I volunteered. I
volunteered a lot when I was -- I still volunteer now. But I volunteered as a Young Christian -- [inaudible] at the Water
Festival at that time. I don't know if you know the Water Festival.
>> What is that?
>> So the Water Festival was held by the, I think, Laos family at that time to celebrate pretty much the Water Festival
which happens in, I think, in the Thai culture and Laos culture. But the Hmong too have it as well. It's kind of like the J4
-- July 4th. It happens -- yeah. And so about that time -- it happens, I think, in May. And then so it's a coincidence but
when July 4th -- no, not July 4th. But when Water Fest stopped happening, the Hmong Music Festival took over that
weekend. So the Memorial Weekend used to be the Water Festival. But I volunteered as the booth manager. So I was
managing [inaudible].
>> OK [laughing].
>> But yeah, that was it. That's all I can remember as growing up as a young person. I was really involved with my
immediate family, though, for weekend events.
>> OK.
>> For example, when there are celebrations, ceremonial stuff, funerals, weddings, all that stuff. So I was involved with
those, the cultural aspect. But I was not very much involved with the young people culture. And I think even now I'm
still not really involved with those, with that community.
>> OK. So the last part -- thank you so much. These are like such well-thought answers and I thank you so much for
these introspective deep answers. So now we're trying to make the university warm, like a non-chilly environment for
Hmong students. How do you think we can make it more warm for Hmong students? For example, would you want to
have smaller classes?
>> Yes. I think that would work.
>> OK.
>> But it would be integrative, not just Hmong students in the classroom.
>> OK. What ->> [Inaudible] would be good. And how to develop that whole class culture is ->> OK.
>> I wouldn't know how to do that. I think. Yeah. I would say because when I went to grad school, it was different from
undergraduate. It was more interactive. And I spoke -- you know, I was often afraid to speak because me and my
colleagues were a lot more experienced and much older than I am. But over time I learned that it's OK for me to say
anything. It doesn't matter. And [inaudible] is the only one who knew about it because I was talking about Hmong
people.
>> Oh! OK.
>> Yeah. And so no one knew about it [laughing]. So I was like, yeah, I was very confident talking about Hmong
people.
>> OK. What about co-ethnic professors? I don't know about UC Merced, but we do have quite a few Hmong
professors. Would you want more Hmong professors?
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>> Right. So that's the other part. Having faculties that are of the ethnic group is great because then it actually leads to
additional research and research opportunities for students who are a certain ethnic group because what I realized is
when you're trying to go to a PhD program and you understand research about Hmong people, most times you'll be
researching with them as a Hmong professor because no one else care about Hmong people. Not that they don't care but
[laughing] again, it's very limited in terms of the way that you do your research.
>> Right.
>> The professors are more interested in certain things because funding is kind of heading that direction.
>> Right. It's by the population, so yeah [laughing].
>> Right. And so it's tough. It's tough to have students who want to go into doctoral programs specifically focused on
probably a subethnic group.
>> Right.
>> At the research I'll be still medical, but on the Hmong community or on a certain other ethnic group, it's hard because
then you don't have enough exposure if you have mainly professors who are focused on only medical and, you know,
general medical stuff. So it's kind of hard to find that fit because each time a professor will want a student who fits into
their research interests.
>> Correct. What about more co-ethnic classmates and also more co-ethnic clubs? Would you want that?
>> So, yes. But instead of clubs, because when I was at UC Merced, I actually got into this interesting part in student
organization life. I realized clubs can become programs.
>> Right.
>> Through a certain process. And at Merced there wasn't one yet because we didn't have that question from [inaudible]
before. But I think my sophomore year, no junior year, a club proposed to convert from a club to program. And at that
time they didn't have any answers for the club because they weren't [inaudible] and so no one was prepared for it. But I
think instead of having clubs, having an actual program that focused on [inaudible] retention I think will be much more
effective. And also there still should be clubs because then you have that relationship where students are actually
running certain things and then it's also support for the students. I met with Cindy, I think, Newing, and also Jared -- it's
[inaudible] -- but they run the Asian American Center [inaudible] Center. And it's very sad to hear that -- well, it's sad to
hear. But they're supposedly the model for each Asian American center in the world. I guess [inaudible] the nation.
>> Really?
>> And they're only funded through person. And this is Stanford.
>> Oh!
>> This is Stanford.
>> You know, unfortunately, yeah. We have zero people at Fresno state, actually.
>> Yeah. Right, right, right. So that's what I'm saying. It's sad because the demographic here for Asian Americans is
huge.
>> It is?
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>> [inaudible] and Asian in general.
>> OK.
>> There's a lot of Asians here at Stanford [laughing].
>> Really?
>> And there's only two [inaudible]. Yes.
>> Wow!
>> There's a lot of Asians here [laughing]. And there's only two staff that kind of run the center.
>> Wow.
>> And for a long time it wasn't even funded by the institution. It was funded by private donors and whatever until
recently they got funding. I actually, there's actually a first generation diversity office here as well. And recently they
just got funding as well. So, when you're looking at like these bigger institutions that have been around for, like, much
longer and it's obviously privately funded, they still have such low budget programing for retention. Maybe because
Stanford and a lot of them [inaudible] you now, poor low income.
>> Right.
>> Or needed help for [inaudible] but that might be the case.
>> Hmm.
>> But the case there for Fresno State is different because we know the existing demographic. We know the actual
problem that exists within the certain demographical group. And so it would be important to have some sort of program
that would support this and facilitate this so that we can [inaudible].
>> Right.
>> And we can probably or possibly define what is needed to support the [inaudible] and I'm sure it started many of
these -- many of the solutions cannot be solved just through Fresno State. There's probably other things that need to be
in place to support the students and also their family and that may be at the lower level, like K12. But I would say I'm
surprised that they're [inaudible] I'm surprised they have no office that could support retention and also [inaudible] and
diversity at Fresno State.
>> We actually do not have anyone [laughing]. Zero. But ->> Yeah. So I'm like, but hearing that here at Stanford, I'm like wow that's crazy. How you guys are the model for other
people and you guys only have two people?
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> That sounds amazing to me, actually. Like, wow, you have two?
>> Yeah, right? [inaudible] OK, that's great [laughing] but then when you have something it's just like, OK, well why
don't you have more? Because maybe -- and then obviously they're taking a lot of programming from that [inaudible]
getting connected with students and such. And so my curiosity [inaudible] basically the same thing where, you know,
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where students don't come because they don't know about that. Or maybe the ones who are coming are performing high
and they don't really need the support. So that's what I realized when I came here to the workshop back in April. That
was the workshop called Institutional Change. And the vice provost here at Stanford held it. She's the new vice provost
and she wanted to get, you know, input from the community. And I went and I realized, this room is really small. I was
expecting more students to show up. Being there, I was the only visiting graduate student who was unofficially enrolled.
I got emails from them because I had an email. But I'm not -- I wasn't even going to be a student until the summer
[laughing].
>> Wow.
>> And he was probably like, what are you doing here? But I showed up because I wanted to find out more. But many
of the folks there, many of them were probably higher performing, really active students who knew what was going on
on campus and they were there kind of just speaking on the behalf of probably those students who they think they know
the answer to [inaudible] have the solutions for. I wouldn't know just because I wouldn't be able to like give you the
100% of this is how you solve, you know, this graduation rate. Because I'm the one who did it -- a graduate. It's the one
who didn't -- like why didn't you graduate? Probably if there's a way to measure it, why they didn't graduate ->> We know by looking at it that there is some correlation within the class. So they're not [inaudible] ->> Is there an exit interview?
>> Not that I know of. I'm going to ask that. I know the UCs have -- all the UCs have an exit interview but I don't know
about the Cal States. That's something I'll ask for. But for sure the UCs have exit interview. So that day at the UCs, for
sure Merced will have it. But I don't know about Fresno. I'll have to enquire because that would be great if they had an
exit interview.
>> Right.
>> So my last question is advice to third generation. So a lot of the Hmong now are like 12 or 13 or somewhere around
high school so they're coming up close. Third generation.
>> Yeah.
>> What advice for that -- if you, in the ideal world, what advice can you tell them? What advice do you have to the
third and fourth generation about higher education to kind of graduate?
>> So one would be reflection.
>> Reflection.
>> Find a way -- right. Find a way to document or just set up [inaudible] times to just reflect on what you're doing.
Because I think a lot of times students go through undergrad going through undergrad and not really realizing [laughing]
what they're doing in undergrad because I think a lot of times life just kind of passes you. You know, the next day
comes, you continue, and you keep going. And eventually people don't know why they're doing it. And I think in
undergrad it gets difficult. Reflection is important, reflecting on things that you've done and why it's important.
Understanding why they're an undergrad and the purpose. [inaudible] keep developing purpose and also sustaining or
changing purpose.
>> OK.
>> So that it fits what they're doing. It's important. Exposure -- and the other part. Exposure is important because if you
don't expose yourself to certain materials or contents or people then you don't know what's really out there. The other
part would be read your books [laughing].
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>> Read your books? [laughing]
>> Yeah, read your books. And the reading part, it's not so much a, you're not doing it for the professor. You're reading
it for you.
>> OK.
>> I think a lot of the time -- in undergrad, I can attest to this -- because a lot of the times you do things because you
think the professor will give you a better grade because you tested well probably. But more of the material that the
professor provides is more for you to learn as a person.
>> OK.
>> And to develop your way of thinking and understanding why things are the way they are in the field that you're
studying. So reading material is important. Research is also important.
>> Research.
>> Getting involved. Yes. Getting involved with professors. And again, it could just be entering data. It could be
reading articles, literature review. And the other part is asking questions.
>> Oh thank you.
>> Yes.
>> You can say that again. Asking questions [laughing].
>> Yeah. Asking questions is important as well. Questions during class, outside of class, and also probably [inaudible]
it's not because you don't understand. And then feel free to go when you don't understand.
>> How about asking for help?
>> Yes. So asking for help as well. Getting connected with not only the professor, but peers in your classroom, being
open to just introducing yourself to people in your classroom is important. It's a learning process that you learn. It's part
of a learning process that you learn with your peers and also your professors and people outside of your classroom. So
also the application of the material you learn is important as well.
>> OK.
>> So that's also positive feedback. So one thing I'm currently doing now is -- one thing I'm doing is not being afraid to
mass email people or professors for help.
>> [Laughing] OK.
>> Yeah and so being here at Stanford I wanted to get involved with [inaudible] research and it was tough because
[inaudible] super late already. But I ended up emailing about 60 professors.
>> Oh my goodness!
>> And I got one response back. I didn't ask them all in one email but I individually sent emails.
>> Right. That's what I was going to say. Don't mass email. Individually send each person [laughing].
>> Yeah. So yeah, I put their name on there and everything. And yeah. And so I got one response. I'm currently working
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with a professor on math learning in mid-level education, so like fifth and ninth grade. So teaching math so that students
will want to learn math more.
>> Great.
>> So we're doing some of that.
>> Yeah. And also being here, asking questions, meeting people, going to random seminars that I have no idea what it's
about. It's been great. Yeah, I went to one that was on engineering, microgrids. They were talking about things that I
kind of understood -- like, you know, [inaudible] and stuff like that and then it got to very detailed, like, engineering
stuff. And I didn't know what they were talking about. But sitting there and just kind of thinking about things they were
talking about. And relating them back to the field I'm interested in was good.
>> Wow. This is a behemoth amount of advice. That's excellent. So thank you! [Laughing] Is there anything about, any
last advice on self-care at all that you might want to give the students? Self-care if they're stressed out? Like, any advice
for that [laughing]?
>> Self-care. I would say don't beat yourself up.
>> OK.
>> For doing, like, making mistakes.
>> Or even getting a bad grade or, you know, flunking a class. Who cares [laughing]?
>> Getting a bad grade. If you're trying to be on a diet, don't beat yourself up for eating a doughnut. The thing is maybe
you [inaudible] up next time you're now less likely to even continue because you're already so bad. You're like, oh well,
I'm already doing bad so I'm just going to [inaudible] do bad. Whereas you can say, it's OK. One doughnut's alright.
Next time, I'm going to do something else.
>> OK.
>> It's different. And so I guess just the way you think about yourself. Positive environment. So meet people and get to
know people who are in the same vibe, positive vibes.
>> Great.
>> Self-care. Yeah, the self-care would be treat yourself to new places. So do some traveling here and there.
>> Oh!
>> Because undergraduate is great, so it's great to travel.
>> Travel.
>> It's always great to travel, expose yourself to different places.
>> OK.
>> So that's also one. The other would be take advantage of free food on campus.
>> Free food [laughing]. Yes! Free food, yes [laughing].
>> There's always free food. Free food equals new information.
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>> OK.
>> So and also there's free food.
>> OK, yes. I love that advice! [laughing]
>> Yeah. The other self-care would be take time to do nothing. Yeah. Take some time if you're already doing so much
already to do nothing and sit there and just be OK with not doing anything.
>> Great. OK. So just do nothing. That means like no internet, no -- does that mean no Instagram? [laughing]
>> Yeah, like, it's just staring at something.
>> OK.
>> It could be a, yeah, as simple as that. I think there's a lot of stuff that you do and those who are really busy they are
always planning things and it gets kind of overwhelming. So it's OK to just sit there and look outside the window
[inaudible].
>> Yeah, just clear your brain.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, awesome!
>> I did that with running, but whoever, like whatever way you need to do it, just clear your brain.
>> Yeah. Physical exercise is by far the greatest. So I assume you run in nature or do you run at the gym?
>> I run outside.
>> Oh great!
>> So yeah.
>> In nature.
>> It's been great so far here at Stanford. In the morning there's a lot of people running here as well.
>> Oh!
>> They're here, like, running with their peers. Because I'm living on campus.
>> Oh wow. OK. So that is a very long list of advice. And I think if the students had half of your list, they would be like
super successful. So thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to add? If not, I'll close out the interview
because this has been phenomenal [laughing]. So I can't thank you enough.
>> Nope. That's pretty much it for now. If there's anything in the future, I could probably just shoot you an email. Or if
there's any other questions that you have, like, I'm more than open to share it because I think it's important to share
information. It's better than just leaving it randomly somewhere.
>> Right. Like, don't hoarde it. Just, yeah. So OK. Let me turn off my recorder here.
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