Tony Chontong interview
Item
Title
Tony Chontong interview
Creator
Chontong, Tony
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00006
extracted text
>> Hello, Mr. Tony. I'd like to thank you so much for being part of the successful Southeast Asian archive. Your story
will help out may students, but also future generations. You understand, you know, the stories they've gone through. If
you can tell me your name, spell your name, and give me verbal permission to interview for the new Southeast Asian
Successful Voices.
>> Yeah. Hi, thanks for having me. My name is Tony Chontong. That's spelled t o n y c h o n t o n g. And I give my
permission for this interview.
>> Great, thank you so much. What is your gender?
>> Male.
>> What is your birth year and the place you were born? Don't tell me the date.
>> Oh, no date? Okay. My birthplace is in Chicago, Illinois.
>> Okay. What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> Half Lao and half Thai, and I was born in -- oh, sorry.
>> You were -- okay, you were born in Chicago.
>> Chicago, Illinois, yeah.
>> Oh interesting, okay. So what your undergraduate major? What college did you go to? And what is your generation?
>> My major was in biological sciences, and that was at the University of California, Davis.
>> Great, okay. And what generation are you in the United States?
>> I'm second generation.
>> Excellent. What is mother and father's highest education?
>> My mother was basically somewhere around middle school. My father, that was a Masters.
>> Wow.
>> I believe, yeah.
>> So what does he -- what is your breakdown in your -- what's the Thai side and what's the Lao side? What is?
>> So my mom is Lao and my dad's Thai.
>> How do they -- they just met in America?
>> I'm pretty sure they did.
>> Okay.
>> But I will need to double check that.
>> Interesting. What is the family composition that you grew up with? Like what's your brothers and sisters? Do you
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have brothers and sisters?
>> I have one older sister. She's about eight years older than me.
>> Did she go to college?
>> She just graduated. She did not go to college first. Yeah, so.
>> That's great, she graduated?
>> Yeah she just graduated this year. Super proud of her.
>> Was it a four year college?
>> Yeah, at San Francisco State University.
>> That's great.
>> She got a -- yeah, anthropology ->> My God.
>> Degree, yeah.
>> That's amazing. Okay. So you actually come from a very educated family actually?
>> Yeah.
>> You can answer or not. What was your GPA?
>> My GPA, I can't remember but it's somewhere in average of all the colleges. Probably somewhere around like 3.3.
>> Wow, that's really high.
>> Oh.
>> That's the first one I found over three.
>> Oh wow.
>> It's all been 2.7, so that's impressive. What is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> For a while I was trying to go to medical school, but now I'm looking more for a Master's or a Ph.D. program.
>> Okay, great. Now growing up Fresno, what was your social economic background? Was it low working, middle, or
were you wealthy rich?
>> I would say -- so we started off low when I was younger, but by the time I was around like four or five it was
straddling the middle low income. So we were starting to hit the middle around.
>> Okay. What high school did you go to and was it a public or private?
>> I went to a public high school.
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>> What high school was it?
>> Edison High School.
>> Where is this Edison?
>> Oh, it's on the southwest part of Fresno, California.
>> Oh, it's in Fresno?
>> Yeah, it's in Fresno, yeah.
>> Oh okay. Okay, interesting. What was the racial and ethnic composition of your high school?
>> It -- I haven't looked at the numbers but from my point of view it looked the school was roughly 1/4 white, 1/4 black,
1/4 Asian, 1/4 Mexican.
>> Okay.
>> So it seemed like it was a pretty good mix.
>> Excellent. Why do Lao and Thai people go to college, or why not?
>> Why do they go to college?
>> Yeah, why wouldn't they go? Like why do they go and why would they not go?
>> Okay, so why would they go? Our parents obviously are a big influence in our lives. So I hear a lot about parents
pushing for college since day one.
>> Did your parents push you?
>> Basically. I don't know if push is the right word, but there was a lot of subliminal messages, I guess, a lot of -- it was
never a question I was going to go to college. Like basically it was, you know, I remember being young and my dad
would introduce me to friends and say, oh, this is my son, Tony. He wants to go to Stanford someday. So things like
that, you know, little ->> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> That's a lot of -- that your father put in your mind. What about your mom?
>> My mom, she -- again, this is, you know, coming from, so I was young at the time, but from my recollection it was
basically she would just support basically what my dad said.
>> Okay great.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And then that's really rare for two BA's in family.
>> Yeah, yeah.
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>> So that's wonderful that your sister also got a BA as well.
>> Right, and also if I can also add on, my cousins also went to school -- to college and they got their ->> You're kidding.
>> So I have ->> Okay.
>> Off of the top of my head four that also graduated from universities, and one just finished law school last year and
now he's a lawyer, a practicing lawyer.
>> So that is actually an extremely rare ->> Yeah.
>> Family composition. Why is your family that rare? I mean, it's ->> I don't know. It ->> It's actually amazing.
>> Yeah. We just I think the family just always kind of encourages us.
>> Is this the Lao side or the Thai?
>> The Lao side. There's -- sorry, yeah, so this is all from my mom's side. My dad's side I'm not too familiar with
because they all live in Thailand basically.
>> Okay.
>> Or other parts of ->> Okay, so what -- do you -- did -- were you cousins told similar things to you to go to college?
>> Yes, but I'm sure in different ways. But it seemed like -- it never really seemed forced.
>> Did any of your cousins not go to college?
>> Did any cousins not go to college? Yes, I can think of two off the top of my head.
>> And what -- were they first generation?
>> They were -- yeah, but they were one point fivers.
>> Okay.
>> They came here at a younger age.
>> And then do -- was -- do you think language was an issue? Why do you think ->> No.
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>> If you were thinking like why?
>> Oh yeah, so ->> [inaudible] also, some are making [inaudible].
>> Right, right, right. Yeah, that's a good question. So, I mean, again, it's just my opinion. It seemed like with their
families, so there were three sons in that family, and so two of them didn't go to college.
>> They were both males?
>> They were both males. So they're all -- they're all males, yeah. And it seemed -- it just seemed like the parents didn't
really, I guess, try to influence them to go to college so much. They didn't really try to push it. They just kind of, you
know, as long as, you know, you make a living for yourself.
>> Right.
>> Everything is okay and, you know. I know -- I know the youngest one, he hung out with the wrong crowd
unfortunately, so he got, you know, sucked into gang activities and so forth. So to me he's a success story because he got
out of it and now is doing really well, you know.
>> Great.
>> Has a good career and family [inaudible].
>> Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> So here, what is your -- do Lao and Thai students, do they have good relationships with administrators and faculty?
[inaudible] back at UC Davis?
>> Do they have good relationships with administrators? Well, first of all, at UC Davis, it's kind of -- not a lot of Lao
students there, a lot of ->> Well, Asian I guess?
>> Asians, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess it's -- I'm not really sure because it's not something that like we -nobody has really talked about. Like, oh, I have such a great relationship with my counsellor or.
>> Okay.
>> I know for me personally, I saw my counsellor the first day. It was like an orientation day for transfer students,
because I was a transfer student. And then the only time I saw her after that was when I needed to graduate and get some
things in order for my transcript and so forth.
>> So what is your least favorite subject? What's your favorite subject?
>> Favorite, I'll start with favorite. That's a little easier right now. I'm a science person so I love maybe like
neuroscience is my favorite subject.
>> That's interesting, interesting. What's your least favorite?
>> Least favorite. Maybe I'll say English just because it was -- it's writing, English writing just because it's the one that I
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struggled with the most I would say. Yeah.
>> Interesting. We're trying to make, you know, it warmer for students. So what is a -- what do you think is a good
professor? What do you think are a bad professor?
>> I'll start with the bad professor. That professor is one that -- just doesn't seem to care about their students. I guess it's
the ones that -- there's like a cookie cutter way of teaching and they just kind of stick to that. And they do it just to -they kind of do the bare minimum to get paid. And at places like UC Davis and other research institutions, that's kind of
acceptable because they have to do the research and teaching ->> Or they get fired.
>> Yeah, right, exactly. And so teaching becomes second fiddle to them. But the better professors that I've had are the
ones who care. They -- you know, they -- for me they're welcoming. They offer to go the -- you know, like do the extra
hours.
>> Such as -- such as what?
>> Office hours. Communicate, just to be able -- especially like at a place like UC Davis where you may have like 400
students in one class and they respond to your e-mail. You know, it's nice to be heard from a professor and they offer to
help you. And also, for me personally, I really enjoy the challenging professors. The ones that -- you know, a lot of
times in college, you know, you're -- when you talk to your peers and you're selecting classes, people are looking for the
easier classes. And a lot of times I find that it's the more challenging ones that I feel more fulfilled from, because they
push you and you learn more, and they actually care about the subject matter that they're teaching.
>> Great. What were the teacher, back at Edison, and also UC Davis, what were the teacher expectations of you as a
person?
>> Teachers from Edison and Davis.
>> I mean, well let's say high school, just high school level.
>> Okay.
>> What were the teacher expectations of you, Mr. Tony?
>> Good question. So I remember -- so I came from -- a long story short. By the time I got to Edison I was taking like
honors.
>> Oh wow.
>> AP [inaudible] classes and so forth. So I was taking challenging classes. And so ->> So you were exceptional at such a young age, but did your father make you take the class or did you yourself selfselect these classes?
>> So I kind of had -- by the time I got to high school, I mean, I made those choices. But it was kind of something, I
guess, a mentality that was instilled since I was young. It kind of carried on forward. And then, you know, by that point
the peers that you surrounded yourself with were also pushing themselves, too.
>> Interesting.
>> So it was almost a no brainer. If your friends are all taking AP classes, I'm going to take an AP class, too.
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>> Interesting.
>> So for those classes, very challenging. I was overwhelmed. I struggled a lot in high school. And, but I remember, I
think it was my senior year because I failed in U.S. history the year prior so I had to take a -- they call them like the
regular p classes, and so I took that. And it was like a U.S. history government class. And it was just -- and like you're in
there with like the athletes and, you know, just like -- and it was just -- it was so interesting because it was just like you
didn't have to do anything really in there. It was almost -- it felt like a daycare environment. It was just like they had no
respect for the teacher. And the teacher would just go in there and she'd just rambled about her day and, you know, like,
oh, I'm having a hard time because of menopause. I'm going through menopause right now, or whatever. And it's a ->> Yeah, interesting.
>> Yeah, so that was -- so it was -- I'm happy I took that class.
>> Really?
>> Because I get a, you know -[ Inaudible ]
Yeah, because my other classes are pretty tough, you know.
>> So like kind of like failing got you in that class actually, it was a positive?
>> Yeah, yeah, I was able to get a pretty ->> Get a good perspective.
>> Good perspective, absolutely.
>> Right.
>> You know.
>> Thinking back to Edison High School, what was the ethnic -- like the teachers?
>> Yeah.
>> Did they think Asians would go to college? Did they think Asians would not go to college? What was their like
expectations of you guys? Was it neutral, low, high?
>> I feel that Edison, they were supportive.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, so, yeah, they were very supportive. So I never heard them say, you know, Asians won't make it or anything
like that.
>> You heard the opposite, or you heard -- did you hear that all Asians go to college [inaudible]?
>> No, didn't hear that either. But it just -- it just felt like in high school they were just -- they were -- they were
supportive. I had very good teachers that were ->> Oh great.
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>> You know, open arms and wanted to help.
>> You took the honors track?
>> Yeah.
>> But you took the honors track?
>> Yeah.
>> So that would have been [inaudible]?
>> Right, right, right. Yeah, because a lot of the students that they were dealing with were geared towards going to
college.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Were there any kind of Lao Thai notable media depictions that you saw -- remember from, I guess?
>> When I was young or in general?
>> In America -- in America?
>> In America, in American media?
>> Yes. Like Asian males, for instance, and the male ->> That's non-existent, right, [inaudible].
>> Okay.
>> I guess the -- really, the only things I can remember as a kid, just like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan, kind of like Asian
like action stars. But in terms of Lao and Thai, not at all in American media. I think to this day there still isn't.
>> And then speaking of your academic preparation, you said you saw both sides of your, you know, different classes.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you feel that when you went to college that Edison High School academically prepared you for college?
>> It did prepare me. I would say that the AP classes definitely prepared me because they were very challenging classes.
They're supposed to be college level courses.
>> What [inaudible] did you take?
>> I took AP stats.
>> Wow.
>> Environmental science.
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>> Okay.
>> U.S. history, European history, calculus, AB, and I think that's all.
>> That's very impressive, yeah. Okay, so, and again, you don't have to answer these questions, but do you think that -going through college as a second gen, not first, did you encounter any barriers do you feel? For instance, did you work
while you were in college?
>> Yes, I worked -- I worked. So any barriers [inaudible]?
>> Yeah, any barrier you can think of.
>> Absolutely financial.
>> Financial, okay.
>> Financial was difficult. And, yeah, I worked when I was at -- so I would -- went to Fresno City College for three
years before I went Davis for two years. Yeah, so I worked. And luckily by the time I got to Davis there were -- there
was more grant -- or at least at that time there was more grant money. So that helped out a lot.
>> Okay, and what about, let's see, do you feel -- do you have any barriers education, you said your high school
prepared you. Do you think there was any cultural or you talked about financial barrier and educational barrier, health,
or gender or structural barriers at all?
>> So did you say cultural barriers?
>> Yeah.
>> Is that what you're talking about?
>> Any barriers at all, like cultural, educational, financial, structural, any barriers you can think of?
>> Yeah, well, so just to add on to the high school barriers -- or preparation, I mean, those classes in terms of difficulty,
they helped me kind of get ready for that. But high school in general I feel is -- it's just so hard to prepare you for
college. College is its own animal. I think the most important being that you do everything yourself now. There's no
hand holding. You make your own schedule. Nobody forces you to do your homework or anything like that so.
>> If you were a woman, a Lao woman, do you think you would have more barriers or less barriers?
>> As a Lao woman [inaudible]. In terms of higher education, if you live at home, yes, I would say because ->> They don't let you leave home or?
>> Yeah, it's ->> [inaudible] who actually could leave.
>> Yeah, it's very -- yeah, absolutely.
>> [inaudible] really close.
>> Yeah, yeah, for funerals I feel for them. They're just -- they can't -- I know like [inaudible] and females who can't
have sleepovers, or they can't go out to see friends, or they're almost restricted to just stay home. It's almost like they're
kind of, I don't know, maybe like quietly told, you know, throughout that they're -- that they're kind of less than. That,
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you know, they're kind of subjected to staying in the kitchen and being a housewife, you know, which, you know, I
guess that's kind of -- culturally that's kind of what we've been for a very long time in Lao, in Southeast Asia. Yeah, so
for them I feel it's a lot -- it's harder in that regard but -- yeah, [inaudible].
>> So I assume you didn't have to take care of children or ->> No, no.
>> Or take care of others? Okay.
>> Yeah, yeah, so I was very lucky in that regard, you know. I -- so I came from a smaller family, just me and my sister.
So, yeah, I didn't have to take care of any kids. And then my parents, at the time, were in good health so I didn't need to
worry about them and their financials either.
>> Okay.
>> So I was just able to take care of myself. Did I ask you, were there any kind of -- I don't know, did you ever
experience racism, macroaggressions or microaggressions? Did that impede you at all?
>> You know, honestly I feel like it's a weird thing to say, but I never really felt like racial -- nothing racially every
really affected me too much in terms of school. Maybe it's because I grew up in Fresno, grew up in California where it
seems like -- I feel that diversity is welcomed and accepted.
>> Okay.
>> So, you know, wherever I went there was always a good mix of, you know, like I said, there's all kinds of ethnicities.
>> And then, was there any barriers that I didn't ask you, that you think that impeded you?
>> I would say in terms of barriers I feel like mentors were -- there's not a lot of mentors in ->> Yes, go on.
>> In our community.
>> For Lao men or males or Lao's in general?
>> Lao in general, but males, too. But I think just -- just to find a Lao female, you know, that makes me thrilled, you
know.
>> That's why they're [inaudible] that's why they're googling you [laughter]. [inaudible] class.
>> Yeah.
>> [inaudible] you are the mentor.
>> Because you were talking about the cultural aspect, I feel like, and I don't know if it's -- if it just pertains to me or
not, but growing up I always felt like it was very intimidating to talk to a lawyer or a doctor, someone who's successful,
you know, or whatever, like a broker who's making good money, anyone. And so it never really felt like the -- you
know, for me to become a doctor or a lawyer, it never felt like it was something attainable or achievable. And also just
the process of going through college, I mean, my dad had a Master's. It's a -- it's a ->> That's like --
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>> It's a longer story with my dad because he wasn't able to -- long story short, he wasn't really able to help me out with
that because of like health issues.
>> He did his Master's in Lao or was here?
>> It was -- it was actually in Chicago. It was in Divinity.
>> Wow.
>> Because he was on his way -- he was on his way to becoming a priest.
>> Oh wow.
>> He was a seminarian and then ->> Okay.
>> Until, you know, he had me and priests can't do that.
>> Okay [laughter].
>> So yeah, but ->> That is quite rare, because he's a first gen, right?
>> Yeah, yeah, he's first generation for Tao men, yeah.
>> He -- is he a [inaudible] or is he a first gen?
>> First gen. He came here in I think like his 20's.
>> Oh no, he's a first gen.
>> He's a first gen through and through, yeah.
>> So he moved to a different country and he got a degree here?
>> Yeah, I think he spent some years ->> Amazing.
>> In the Philip -- so he went from Thailand and then he went to a boarding school, then he went to the Philippines, and
then Philippines to Chicago.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. And I think he actually he started in New York and then moved to Chicago so.
>> Wow.
>> But then -- so the twist to that story is that when I was nine years old he got in a severe car accident.
>> Oh dear.
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>> And so he wasn't able to -- luckily he was able to recover physically well, but mentally he had to kind of -- he wasn't
-- he wasn't really able to kind of draw back on his education much.
>> Okay. So that's the -- now this is the last part.
>> Okay.
>> Let's talk about Mr. Tony and only Mr. Tony.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. So, Mr. Tony, you know, you are a rare bird. You are a Southeast Asian male that has a BA, who went to one
of the best college -- universities on the planet. Why is it that you succeeded? What is your personality trait that made
you succeed? Like why? Is this your [inaudible] personality?
>> Right, right.
>> Is this -- have you changed?
>> Okay.
>> Like what about you?
>> Nothing about the environment.
>> Well, I mean ->> Just me personally.
>> Did you -- they have the [inaudible] but two people in the same environment have two different outcomes.
>> Right, right. So ->> What is your personality?
>> So poss -- so possibly -- should I just talk about both maybe?
>> It's up to you. It's up to you.
>> I will just say environment wise, because I'm a big believer in ->> Because there's like nature and nurture.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> So which ->> Right, right. And I don't know which one it was but, nurture wise just -- so when I was younger -- so my parents
always encouraged me to go to college. So we already know that. And then they enrolled me into like a gate school in
elementary school.
>> Okay.
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>> Is this the same school that you went to -- they enrolled you in gate class but -- at the same school?
>> No, no, a different school.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, at a different school. So it's called Manchester Gate. So it's a gate elementary school. And so ->> The whole school is for elem -- for gate?
>> Yeah, yeah, exactly.
>> Oh my gosh, okay.
>> So it was -- it was -- so it was a lot more challenging. I remember -- because before that I went to another school and
like I feel like all you had to do was just show up and like you're getting A's or, you know, they give you G's for good,
right, back like when you're that young. And I remember like just being in the school yard people were like, I don't
know, playing marbles and stuff like that, like maybe they were gambling, too, I don't know. But, yeah, like -- and then
going to Manchester then -- I didn't even know what the word due meant. So I remember like one of the first -- you
know, first week of class you had an assignment due and I didn't know how to finish it by Thursday, and so I got in
trouble for that.
>> Wow.
>> So it was just a very ->> A bit different.
>> Different learning process.
>> You had to ->> Yeah, yeah.
>> They didn't tell you due date? You didn't know what it meant?
>> Apparently not.
>> Wow, okay.
>> Yeah, so I just remember because it was embarrassing because like everyone who didn't finish their assignment had
to stay standing. And I was like, oh, I didn't know I did something wrong.
>> Oh wow, okay. And you were first grade?
>> Oh, so by that point I was third grade.
>> Oh okay.
>> Yeah, so I don't know how I didn't know what due meant until third grade but ->> So your nature environment was quite good.
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>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just ->> From your nurture environment.
>> Nurture, nurture, yeah, right. So that -- so like I said, it was kind of a domino effect, because those classes were
harder. And then also, you know, your peers, too, and they challenge you. You're more -- in a more supportive
environment sort of academics, I would say. Or competitive, encouraging environment. And so that kind of set the way
for, you know, going to, you know, like taking harder classes, like I said, AP classes and so forth. So it was always an
environment that I was exposed to throughout. And so that was my nurture side.
>> So nature, if nature [inaudible] identifies gate. Not everyone gets into gate.
>> Right, right, right.
>> So you must have tested in.
>> Yeah, yeah, so I had to take a test. I failed it the first time, but then second grade I took it again. And, you know, that
also goes to show, too, that my parents had to -- wanted me to go to this school, so, you know, to take the twice, right.
>> Interesting.
>> They must have pushed for that, too. So, you know, I don't -- I don't think any six or seven year old says, hey, I want
to take a gate test to get into Manchester.
>> That is true, yes. So if you were looking at your personality, you've had, you know, barriers and you've overcome
them.
>> Yeah.
>> What -- why do you overcome things? Like is it your personality to -- like why don't you just give up? Like what is
it about your personality that makes you keep -- right? Like what is this ->> I feel ->> Trait you have? Separate from your parents, like the nature, I guess?
>> What makes me overcome? Maybe it's because I'm competitive in nature. So I'm always, you know, always try my
best to win. Always -- I don't know.
>> Were you competing against your cousins? Like what was ->> No, I mean -- I mean just to -- just to do well. I mean, I don't know. It never -- I never look at -- I don't accept failure,
you know, so it's not -- I don't -- I mean, I try not to fail. You know, that's just -- I don't know. I don't think anybody
really does, right?
>> But a lot of people sometimes they'll fail and they'll drop out. But why did you keep going?
>> I see, I see. I don't know.
>> We all fail.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> But our actions to it are different.
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>> Right, right, right. Good question. I guess, so maybe like outside of just your inner desire, I guess it can just be
things like social perceptions, I guess, or it can encourage you to ->> [inaudible] Asian model [inaudible], like you're Asian, you're smarter, is that what you're saying or?
>> No, I don't know. Maybe like you don't want to like disappoint your family or your community or your peers.
>> Interesting.
>> You know, but I mean, like I said, that's all secondary. That's just, I guess fuel to the fire. We're like really just a
personal want to do -- to do better for yourself and to succeed and whatever goals you set.
>> So moving away from you, you talked a lot about your family enablers. Can you think back of any cultural
institutions, like cultural, educational, financial, like the opposite of barrier, but what are these positive things that
helped you, right?
>> Right, right.
>> What are some [inaudible] boy club?
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, I hear you.
>> [inaudible], were you part of any Lao community?
>> So you're just talking about the cultural ones?
>> Yeah, anything.
>> Anything, anything.
>> Were you part of some dance troop or some -- just like Saturday Lao classes? I don't know.
>> No, no.
>> Thai classes? I don't know.
>> No, I didn't do any of those particular activities. I mean, I was -- I was part of a chess club when I was in sixth grade.
And like for me I guess that was -- that filled the competitive part of me. And also it's a -- it's a team aspect because
you're traveling with a team and so forth. But I would say what really affected me was joining like a volunteer -- like a
volunteer club at ->> Oh great.
>> In high school.
>> What was the volunteer club?
>> It was called Inner Serve.
>> Okay.
>> And I was also part of a club called The Lao Viet Club.
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>> Oh really? Where was this?
>> That was also at Edison.
>> Oh wow.
>> So these are -- these are school clubs.
>> Okay.
>> And so The Lao Viet Club was more so just to identify with your peers.
>> So it was for Lao and Vietnamese?
>> Yeah, yeah, because there was not enough to do just a Lao one, so they ->> Okay [laughter].
>> I know, right, it's funny.
>> But there was a [inaudible] club.
>> And I can't remember if there was a [inaudible] club, but there was an Asian club.
>> Okay.
>> And that one was predominantly [inaudible].
>> Okay.
>> So, but there might have been a [inaudible] club. I think there is a [inaudible] and Asian club, but I'm -- I can't
remember.
>> So we call that high impact activities when you volunteer. It has a lifetime affect.
>> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
>> Can you tell me, like what did you do in this Lao club? What did you do in this volunteer club?
>> Yeah, so for Inter Serve we did everything. We volunteered at like a Civil War re-enactment.
>> In Fresno?
>> Yeah, in Fresno. At a leukemia walk. It was called Light the Night, or I think it's leukemia but -- leukemia
lymphoma but ->> You did the books -- you did the tables, right?
>> Yeah, the tables, right. And I think like we helped out wherever we could, like balloons, or giving out shirts, and so
on and so forth. Just cleaning projects and so forth. It was a long time ago. I can't remember all of it.
>> How did that affect you? Because you still remember it now so ->> Yeah, and also I want to add on, too. The Lao Viet one, we didn't do too many community service events, but one
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that really stood out for me was we went to a retirement home.
>> Okay.
>> And I met this lady who had Alzheimer's. And she was like -- have you ever met -- did you ever meet an Alzheimer's
-- a person with Alzheimer's, it's a very interesting experience. Because it was like she was like a cassette on repeat. You
know, you -- she kept repeating herself. So that, you know, that was very interesting for me. And I think like
cumulatively all these activities, they help you realize, I highly encourage anyone to volunteer, there are people who
need help, you know. And so it helps you put things into perspective, such as like, you know, you might be complaining
about a ketchup stain in your shirt when, you know, can't even get food for the day. Or -- and also it gives you selfworth -- excuse me, self-worth, too. You know, that you, just one person, can make an impact in your community and
help others. So those were -- you know, those are just some of the lessons that I got from volunteering in high school.
>> Awesome, okay. So you gave us so much great -- so many great kind of innervation. So now can you tell me, yes or
no, okay?
>> Yeah.
>> Smaller classes, do you want smaller classes?
>> Does it have to be yes or no?
>> Oh, I mean ->> It depends, but ->> It's up to you, to help you graduate?
>> To help me -- to help -- to help you graduate?
>> Smaller classes in general are better, so that you can inner -- there's -- that way the teachers and the students can
have more one on one.
>> You had both.
>> Right.
>> You had the -- when you said you were small and then Davis was big.
>> Oh yeah.
>> So you prefer smaller classes?
>> Smaller is nice because you're basically talking to your teacher every day.
>> How many -- 45 or how -- where would you say a number?
>> In terms of the ideal amount?
>> Uh-huh, for you.
>> For me, 30 to 40. But then again, you know, when -- it all depends. I mean, like I said, and like I was in a 100
student class and, you know, sometimes there's no reason to have -- to break that up you would probably need like 12
classes of chemistry instead of one class -- one lecture hall for 100. So I understand obviously to the logistics of it all.
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But personally I -- you know, I think it's a no brainer when -- in terms of teacher student ration. That way it's easier for
the students and teachers to have more one on one time.
>> Co-ethnic professors, do you want all Thai or Asian professors, Thai Lao professors, or all Asian professors?
Difference or no? Do you want that?
>> No, I ->> More Asian professors or?
>> Yes, more, more would be nice, but I would like some diversity. It's ->> Okay.
>> But not all.
>> What about your co-ethnics, you see in Irvine [assumed spelling] 70% Asian.
>> Uh-huh.
>> Do you want that or?
>> In terms of students?
>> Yes.
>> At a -- at a campus?
>> Is that [inaudible] in Irvine.
>> Wow, that's a lot, 70%.
>> Yeah.
>> That still blows me away [laughter]. Would I want that?
>> It's a norm for them.
>> Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say I wouldn't want it, but I guess maybe I prefer just some more diverse group just so,
because I think one of the joys of living in America is the -- our diversity.
>> Okay. What about ethnic clubs? Do you want Lao clubs, more Lao clubs? More Thai clubs? More?
>> Yeah, sure, why not.
>> Okay.
>> It's always fun to learn Lao more.
>> Do you do any college success workshops? And if you wanted some, I don't know if you want or not, but what
would it be on?
>> Yeah, I think -- I think it would be nice to have more workshops. So this is just to be successful in college or just
anything in general?
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>> After college.
>> Oh, after college and during college I'm 100% for workshops that pertain finding employment. In terms, for
example, interview skills, maybe skills on how to find jobs, on how to write your cover letter, CV's, resumes.
>> Okay. This is something we could do.
>> Yeah.
>> This is great advice. Thank you. And then what about Asians, because Asians are always taught to look down and
not be assertive. That will really hurt them in the college, would you want a college success program -- workshop
typically geared toward Asian cultural norms to kind of like break them in order to -- because for them to be successful
they'll have to break their cultural norm.
>> No, definitely.
>> Because a weak handshake is not going to make it.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> You have to have like, but that would go against ->> I think -- I think what -- I agree with what you said. I think it really needs to be -- it needs exposure. I don't -because for me I think it's just something that -- it's something culturally instilled and I -- you don't really realize it until
somebody points it out that, you know, you -- why are you -- why you're so soft spoken or ->> Right.
>> Why do you tend to keep your head down or you know ->> So would you want a workshop on that, because ->> Yes.
>> Asians are always [inaudible] by yourself, be, you know ->> Humble, yeah.
>> Humble. But in the American job market you have to toot your own horn.
>> Yeah.
>> And if you don't toot your horn you won't get the job, because everyone is like I'm great at this, I'm great at this so.
>> Absolutely. I know, it's so -- it's really out of your comfort zone. And, yeah, that's -- so I am a proponent of that.
>> Okay.
>> It -- I think like maybe like simulated workshops or, you know, maybe examples. You know, like just ->> Do you need -- do you want podcasts? Do you want webinars? Do you want [inaudible].
>> Yeah, yeah.
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>> Asians are often don't go to things but they like in the privacy of their internet.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> They're internet warriors.
>> Yeah, yeah. Webinars are good, yeah. I like that.
>> Podcasts or no?
>> Podcasts would be nice, too. I think what really helps is to have examples. So, yeah, so as long as you can like ->> Like a mentor?
>> Like a -- like maybe like a simulation, I guess maybe like a -- like a -- like a -- like just to like watch. Like for med
school we had these mock interviews for med school, right. And so you can go in yourself and do these interviews,
right, as if you're interviewing for med school. And then like you said, it's hard to bring people in. So if you can like
broadcast that or put it on a webinar where they can see somebody do that.
>> Okay, excellent.
>> Those are ->> Those are great tips.
>> I think those are -- those are helpful.
>> Do you [inaudible] any other questions about bridges? If not, I'll go to the last question.
>> Bridges?
>> Anything else that helped you be so successful thinking back? You got the nurture, you got the nature, but ->> Yeah.
>> You had all that childhood stuff, anything at all?
>> Just in case it doesn't come up later, so I was lucky enough to, when I was around 18, 19, to meet a doctor, a Lao
doctor. And so ->> Interesting.
>> And so that right there just ->> Okay.
>> That, I mean, she was -- she was being very helpful to me so, and it helped that she was, you know, very open arms
and ->> Is this Dr. Cappa [assumed spelling]?
>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
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>> Okay. She's amazing.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And so it's nice, because at the time I was -- I was considering med school, too. Or, well not med
school but just going into the sciences. And, you know, so just to see someone like that, because I already knew at that
time how hard it was to get into medical school and to finish medical school and become a doctor. So it was just -- it
was nice to someone in your community who have done all those things. Because prior to that, I mean, I don't think I
would have known anyone that was a doctor and had a personal relationship and ->> Okay.
>> You know, she's become a really good friend of mine so.
>> Great. You [inaudible] ask her for help.
>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that ->> So, Mr. Tony, the last questions is the third generation, fourth generation. The second generation they're all here
struggling [inaudible]. The third generation is going to come up [inaudible].
>> Yeah.
>> [inaudible], some of them will come up at 18. They'll go to [inaudible] first here.
>> Right, right.
>> What can you tell these little 12 -- well, they're not going to listen to this for some six years but ->> Yeah.
>> What can you tell the third -- maybe the second generation, what can you tell the third and fourth generation to keep
going, to graduate?
>> Right, right.
>> What advice can you give them to just [inaudible] Mr. Tony and why? Can you give them any advice?
>> There's help out there. Man, it -- you know, like there is help out there. So you just -- you just got to keep -- you just
got to keep pushing yourself to find help that you can get. People want to, at least from my experience, yeah, you will
encounter people who want to put you down or -- maybe not put you down, but more so you might run into a counselor
that will say based off your grades you probably won't get into Stanford or whatever. But just don't give up. Don't give
up. You know, reach out for help because, you know, to that one counselor there will probably be maybe 10 others who
will encourage you and try to help you out. So just -- if you really want something just keep working for it. In particular
to our community, it's hard. It's hard to find a mentor.
>> Yes.
>> And I get that, but everyone that I've seen in our community who's done well and is successful, they want to help. So
->> So reach out?
>> Just reach out, just reach out. Tell people that -- oh, that's what I was going to say earlier. You know like, I was in a
club at Fresno City College called The Pre-Health Society. And the president at that time of the club, he kept putting
everything in a social media and everything he did, like any kind of event that we did or any achievement, he always
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talked about it. I remember the newspaper would come. And interesting, too, because he's Vietnamese, right. So, you
know, so he'd bring, you know, the Fresno City College Newspaper and, hey, you know, we, the Pre-Health Society did
this and we got this many numbers. And I remember having a conversation with him about that. And he said -- he said,
you know what, like I do this because that way people will hear about us and know what we're doing. And this, you
know, opens up doors to other opportunities and so forth. And, you know, like you were saying, we're kind of -- we're
brought up to be humble, to do things, to not talk about it. And so that was -- that was a pretty interesting eye-opening
experience for me just because ->> Going against the Asian norm.
>> Yeah, because now we're just talking about everything, and it helped out. You know, it brought exposure and so on
and so forth. So, you know, so I guess kind of in light of with what I was saying earlier, just -- it's okay to tell people
you need help. You know, I think for -- I'm not sure if it's still like this, but in my time like when you ask for tutoring it
was almost kind of looked down upon because it means like you're stupid and you need help with something, right? But,
you know, you get to college and you learn quickly, like there's a lot of tutoring support for classes you're going to
struggle with. And, or tutoring for a paper that you need to turn in and so you get it revised. And so there's just so much
help out there. Just, you know, if you need help, tell people you need help and look for it, because it's out there.
>> And you graduated seven years ago, right?
>> Yes.
>> So now looking back, what are the positive things that college gave you had you not gone to college?
>> College, yeah, yeah.
>> Like what if Mr. Tony did not go to college?
>> Right, right.
>> But you did go to college, what are the positive things that you have seen that helped to transform your life in a way?
>> That's a -- there's a -- there's a mindset to college that you have to have -- and I didn't -- I didn't really notice this
until maybe like three, five years later after I graduated. You kind -- you have to become -- I guess if you wanted to sum
it up, critical thinking from college. You really have to become a critical thinker and learn, for example, probably
regardless of what field you go into in college, you have to learn how to research. And so research may involve reading
numerous articles or journals and then learning how to read them from a critical point of view and not just believing,
you know, your first article that you read. But beside that, I mean, just learning how to get things done. You know, in
college you -- there's so many obstacles in the way, you know, in terms of it could be food, money for food, or
transportation to school, and you just got to find a way to persevere and find ways to accomplish it.
>> And my very, very last question is, do you have any specific advice to Asian males?
>> Asian males [laughter]. Man, Asian males. I don't know if it would be any different for Asian females. Boy, Asian
males. I could see why -- I could see why Asian males have a tougher time than Asian females. My thinking goes that
it's the environment of maybe like Asian males they kind of tend to, I don't know, not be so serious about school when
they're in their younger years and they're focused more maybe on partying or getting like nice cars and nice clothes. I'm
not sure what it is. So for -- I would say this is my life if I were to [inaudible]. Find -- let's say you take a class, like a
biology class or something, and you start to find people that like are doing well in the class and you -- and you connect
with them and -- on a personal level, but maybe they might be different in ethnicity, right, and I think, you know, for
Southeast Asians we tend to stick together, right. We tend to just have Southeast Asian friends and so forth. You know,
just encourage yourself to just get yourself out of that comfort zone, make that connection.
>> Group studying.
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>> Group study, you know. Get ->> [inaudible] ask some questions, okay.
>> Yeah, and put yourself in those uncomfortable situations where you meet -- you meet people that -- and you become
friends with people that you normally don't associate with.
>> Okay.
>> Because it can open up doors and perspectives to other things that you may not have been aware of.
>> Excellent, thank you. If that's all, thank you so much for your time. I'm going to turn off the interview. I ->> Okay.
>> Thank you so much.
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will help out may students, but also future generations. You understand, you know, the stories they've gone through. If
you can tell me your name, spell your name, and give me verbal permission to interview for the new Southeast Asian
Successful Voices.
>> Yeah. Hi, thanks for having me. My name is Tony Chontong. That's spelled t o n y c h o n t o n g. And I give my
permission for this interview.
>> Great, thank you so much. What is your gender?
>> Male.
>> What is your birth year and the place you were born? Don't tell me the date.
>> Oh, no date? Okay. My birthplace is in Chicago, Illinois.
>> Okay. What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> Half Lao and half Thai, and I was born in -- oh, sorry.
>> You were -- okay, you were born in Chicago.
>> Chicago, Illinois, yeah.
>> Oh interesting, okay. So what your undergraduate major? What college did you go to? And what is your generation?
>> My major was in biological sciences, and that was at the University of California, Davis.
>> Great, okay. And what generation are you in the United States?
>> I'm second generation.
>> Excellent. What is mother and father's highest education?
>> My mother was basically somewhere around middle school. My father, that was a Masters.
>> Wow.
>> I believe, yeah.
>> So what does he -- what is your breakdown in your -- what's the Thai side and what's the Lao side? What is?
>> So my mom is Lao and my dad's Thai.
>> How do they -- they just met in America?
>> I'm pretty sure they did.
>> Okay.
>> But I will need to double check that.
>> Interesting. What is the family composition that you grew up with? Like what's your brothers and sisters? Do you
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have brothers and sisters?
>> I have one older sister. She's about eight years older than me.
>> Did she go to college?
>> She just graduated. She did not go to college first. Yeah, so.
>> That's great, she graduated?
>> Yeah she just graduated this year. Super proud of her.
>> Was it a four year college?
>> Yeah, at San Francisco State University.
>> That's great.
>> She got a -- yeah, anthropology ->> My God.
>> Degree, yeah.
>> That's amazing. Okay. So you actually come from a very educated family actually?
>> Yeah.
>> You can answer or not. What was your GPA?
>> My GPA, I can't remember but it's somewhere in average of all the colleges. Probably somewhere around like 3.3.
>> Wow, that's really high.
>> Oh.
>> That's the first one I found over three.
>> Oh wow.
>> It's all been 2.7, so that's impressive. What is your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> For a while I was trying to go to medical school, but now I'm looking more for a Master's or a Ph.D. program.
>> Okay, great. Now growing up Fresno, what was your social economic background? Was it low working, middle, or
were you wealthy rich?
>> I would say -- so we started off low when I was younger, but by the time I was around like four or five it was
straddling the middle low income. So we were starting to hit the middle around.
>> Okay. What high school did you go to and was it a public or private?
>> I went to a public high school.
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>> What high school was it?
>> Edison High School.
>> Where is this Edison?
>> Oh, it's on the southwest part of Fresno, California.
>> Oh, it's in Fresno?
>> Yeah, it's in Fresno, yeah.
>> Oh okay. Okay, interesting. What was the racial and ethnic composition of your high school?
>> It -- I haven't looked at the numbers but from my point of view it looked the school was roughly 1/4 white, 1/4 black,
1/4 Asian, 1/4 Mexican.
>> Okay.
>> So it seemed like it was a pretty good mix.
>> Excellent. Why do Lao and Thai people go to college, or why not?
>> Why do they go to college?
>> Yeah, why wouldn't they go? Like why do they go and why would they not go?
>> Okay, so why would they go? Our parents obviously are a big influence in our lives. So I hear a lot about parents
pushing for college since day one.
>> Did your parents push you?
>> Basically. I don't know if push is the right word, but there was a lot of subliminal messages, I guess, a lot of -- it was
never a question I was going to go to college. Like basically it was, you know, I remember being young and my dad
would introduce me to friends and say, oh, this is my son, Tony. He wants to go to Stanford someday. So things like
that, you know, little ->> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> That's a lot of -- that your father put in your mind. What about your mom?
>> My mom, she -- again, this is, you know, coming from, so I was young at the time, but from my recollection it was
basically she would just support basically what my dad said.
>> Okay great.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And then that's really rare for two BA's in family.
>> Yeah, yeah.
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>> So that's wonderful that your sister also got a BA as well.
>> Right, and also if I can also add on, my cousins also went to school -- to college and they got their ->> You're kidding.
>> So I have ->> Okay.
>> Off of the top of my head four that also graduated from universities, and one just finished law school last year and
now he's a lawyer, a practicing lawyer.
>> So that is actually an extremely rare ->> Yeah.
>> Family composition. Why is your family that rare? I mean, it's ->> I don't know. It ->> It's actually amazing.
>> Yeah. We just I think the family just always kind of encourages us.
>> Is this the Lao side or the Thai?
>> The Lao side. There's -- sorry, yeah, so this is all from my mom's side. My dad's side I'm not too familiar with
because they all live in Thailand basically.
>> Okay.
>> Or other parts of ->> Okay, so what -- do you -- did -- were you cousins told similar things to you to go to college?
>> Yes, but I'm sure in different ways. But it seemed like -- it never really seemed forced.
>> Did any of your cousins not go to college?
>> Did any cousins not go to college? Yes, I can think of two off the top of my head.
>> And what -- were they first generation?
>> They were -- yeah, but they were one point fivers.
>> Okay.
>> They came here at a younger age.
>> And then do -- was -- do you think language was an issue? Why do you think ->> No.
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>> If you were thinking like why?
>> Oh yeah, so ->> [inaudible] also, some are making [inaudible].
>> Right, right, right. Yeah, that's a good question. So, I mean, again, it's just my opinion. It seemed like with their
families, so there were three sons in that family, and so two of them didn't go to college.
>> They were both males?
>> They were both males. So they're all -- they're all males, yeah. And it seemed -- it just seemed like the parents didn't
really, I guess, try to influence them to go to college so much. They didn't really try to push it. They just kind of, you
know, as long as, you know, you make a living for yourself.
>> Right.
>> Everything is okay and, you know. I know -- I know the youngest one, he hung out with the wrong crowd
unfortunately, so he got, you know, sucked into gang activities and so forth. So to me he's a success story because he got
out of it and now is doing really well, you know.
>> Great.
>> Has a good career and family [inaudible].
>> Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> So here, what is your -- do Lao and Thai students, do they have good relationships with administrators and faculty?
[inaudible] back at UC Davis?
>> Do they have good relationships with administrators? Well, first of all, at UC Davis, it's kind of -- not a lot of Lao
students there, a lot of ->> Well, Asian I guess?
>> Asians, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess it's -- I'm not really sure because it's not something that like we -nobody has really talked about. Like, oh, I have such a great relationship with my counsellor or.
>> Okay.
>> I know for me personally, I saw my counsellor the first day. It was like an orientation day for transfer students,
because I was a transfer student. And then the only time I saw her after that was when I needed to graduate and get some
things in order for my transcript and so forth.
>> So what is your least favorite subject? What's your favorite subject?
>> Favorite, I'll start with favorite. That's a little easier right now. I'm a science person so I love maybe like
neuroscience is my favorite subject.
>> That's interesting, interesting. What's your least favorite?
>> Least favorite. Maybe I'll say English just because it was -- it's writing, English writing just because it's the one that I
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struggled with the most I would say. Yeah.
>> Interesting. We're trying to make, you know, it warmer for students. So what is a -- what do you think is a good
professor? What do you think are a bad professor?
>> I'll start with the bad professor. That professor is one that -- just doesn't seem to care about their students. I guess it's
the ones that -- there's like a cookie cutter way of teaching and they just kind of stick to that. And they do it just to -they kind of do the bare minimum to get paid. And at places like UC Davis and other research institutions, that's kind of
acceptable because they have to do the research and teaching ->> Or they get fired.
>> Yeah, right, exactly. And so teaching becomes second fiddle to them. But the better professors that I've had are the
ones who care. They -- you know, they -- for me they're welcoming. They offer to go the -- you know, like do the extra
hours.
>> Such as -- such as what?
>> Office hours. Communicate, just to be able -- especially like at a place like UC Davis where you may have like 400
students in one class and they respond to your e-mail. You know, it's nice to be heard from a professor and they offer to
help you. And also, for me personally, I really enjoy the challenging professors. The ones that -- you know, a lot of
times in college, you know, you're -- when you talk to your peers and you're selecting classes, people are looking for the
easier classes. And a lot of times I find that it's the more challenging ones that I feel more fulfilled from, because they
push you and you learn more, and they actually care about the subject matter that they're teaching.
>> Great. What were the teacher, back at Edison, and also UC Davis, what were the teacher expectations of you as a
person?
>> Teachers from Edison and Davis.
>> I mean, well let's say high school, just high school level.
>> Okay.
>> What were the teacher expectations of you, Mr. Tony?
>> Good question. So I remember -- so I came from -- a long story short. By the time I got to Edison I was taking like
honors.
>> Oh wow.
>> AP [inaudible] classes and so forth. So I was taking challenging classes. And so ->> So you were exceptional at such a young age, but did your father make you take the class or did you yourself selfselect these classes?
>> So I kind of had -- by the time I got to high school, I mean, I made those choices. But it was kind of something, I
guess, a mentality that was instilled since I was young. It kind of carried on forward. And then, you know, by that point
the peers that you surrounded yourself with were also pushing themselves, too.
>> Interesting.
>> So it was almost a no brainer. If your friends are all taking AP classes, I'm going to take an AP class, too.
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>> Interesting.
>> So for those classes, very challenging. I was overwhelmed. I struggled a lot in high school. And, but I remember, I
think it was my senior year because I failed in U.S. history the year prior so I had to take a -- they call them like the
regular p classes, and so I took that. And it was like a U.S. history government class. And it was just -- and like you're in
there with like the athletes and, you know, just like -- and it was just -- it was so interesting because it was just like you
didn't have to do anything really in there. It was almost -- it felt like a daycare environment. It was just like they had no
respect for the teacher. And the teacher would just go in there and she'd just rambled about her day and, you know, like,
oh, I'm having a hard time because of menopause. I'm going through menopause right now, or whatever. And it's a ->> Yeah, interesting.
>> Yeah, so that was -- so it was -- I'm happy I took that class.
>> Really?
>> Because I get a, you know -[ Inaudible ]
Yeah, because my other classes are pretty tough, you know.
>> So like kind of like failing got you in that class actually, it was a positive?
>> Yeah, yeah, I was able to get a pretty ->> Get a good perspective.
>> Good perspective, absolutely.
>> Right.
>> You know.
>> Thinking back to Edison High School, what was the ethnic -- like the teachers?
>> Yeah.
>> Did they think Asians would go to college? Did they think Asians would not go to college? What was their like
expectations of you guys? Was it neutral, low, high?
>> I feel that Edison, they were supportive.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, so, yeah, they were very supportive. So I never heard them say, you know, Asians won't make it or anything
like that.
>> You heard the opposite, or you heard -- did you hear that all Asians go to college [inaudible]?
>> No, didn't hear that either. But it just -- it just felt like in high school they were just -- they were -- they were
supportive. I had very good teachers that were ->> Oh great.
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>> You know, open arms and wanted to help.
>> You took the honors track?
>> Yeah.
>> But you took the honors track?
>> Yeah.
>> So that would have been [inaudible]?
>> Right, right, right. Yeah, because a lot of the students that they were dealing with were geared towards going to
college.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Were there any kind of Lao Thai notable media depictions that you saw -- remember from, I guess?
>> When I was young or in general?
>> In America -- in America?
>> In America, in American media?
>> Yes. Like Asian males, for instance, and the male ->> That's non-existent, right, [inaudible].
>> Okay.
>> I guess the -- really, the only things I can remember as a kid, just like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan, kind of like Asian
like action stars. But in terms of Lao and Thai, not at all in American media. I think to this day there still isn't.
>> And then speaking of your academic preparation, you said you saw both sides of your, you know, different classes.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you feel that when you went to college that Edison High School academically prepared you for college?
>> It did prepare me. I would say that the AP classes definitely prepared me because they were very challenging classes.
They're supposed to be college level courses.
>> What [inaudible] did you take?
>> I took AP stats.
>> Wow.
>> Environmental science.
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>> Okay.
>> U.S. history, European history, calculus, AB, and I think that's all.
>> That's very impressive, yeah. Okay, so, and again, you don't have to answer these questions, but do you think that -going through college as a second gen, not first, did you encounter any barriers do you feel? For instance, did you work
while you were in college?
>> Yes, I worked -- I worked. So any barriers [inaudible]?
>> Yeah, any barrier you can think of.
>> Absolutely financial.
>> Financial, okay.
>> Financial was difficult. And, yeah, I worked when I was at -- so I would -- went to Fresno City College for three
years before I went Davis for two years. Yeah, so I worked. And luckily by the time I got to Davis there were -- there
was more grant -- or at least at that time there was more grant money. So that helped out a lot.
>> Okay, and what about, let's see, do you feel -- do you have any barriers education, you said your high school
prepared you. Do you think there was any cultural or you talked about financial barrier and educational barrier, health,
or gender or structural barriers at all?
>> So did you say cultural barriers?
>> Yeah.
>> Is that what you're talking about?
>> Any barriers at all, like cultural, educational, financial, structural, any barriers you can think of?
>> Yeah, well, so just to add on to the high school barriers -- or preparation, I mean, those classes in terms of difficulty,
they helped me kind of get ready for that. But high school in general I feel is -- it's just so hard to prepare you for
college. College is its own animal. I think the most important being that you do everything yourself now. There's no
hand holding. You make your own schedule. Nobody forces you to do your homework or anything like that so.
>> If you were a woman, a Lao woman, do you think you would have more barriers or less barriers?
>> As a Lao woman [inaudible]. In terms of higher education, if you live at home, yes, I would say because ->> They don't let you leave home or?
>> Yeah, it's ->> [inaudible] who actually could leave.
>> Yeah, it's very -- yeah, absolutely.
>> [inaudible] really close.
>> Yeah, yeah, for funerals I feel for them. They're just -- they can't -- I know like [inaudible] and females who can't
have sleepovers, or they can't go out to see friends, or they're almost restricted to just stay home. It's almost like they're
kind of, I don't know, maybe like quietly told, you know, throughout that they're -- that they're kind of less than. That,
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you know, they're kind of subjected to staying in the kitchen and being a housewife, you know, which, you know, I
guess that's kind of -- culturally that's kind of what we've been for a very long time in Lao, in Southeast Asia. Yeah, so
for them I feel it's a lot -- it's harder in that regard but -- yeah, [inaudible].
>> So I assume you didn't have to take care of children or ->> No, no.
>> Or take care of others? Okay.
>> Yeah, yeah, so I was very lucky in that regard, you know. I -- so I came from a smaller family, just me and my sister.
So, yeah, I didn't have to take care of any kids. And then my parents, at the time, were in good health so I didn't need to
worry about them and their financials either.
>> Okay.
>> So I was just able to take care of myself. Did I ask you, were there any kind of -- I don't know, did you ever
experience racism, macroaggressions or microaggressions? Did that impede you at all?
>> You know, honestly I feel like it's a weird thing to say, but I never really felt like racial -- nothing racially every
really affected me too much in terms of school. Maybe it's because I grew up in Fresno, grew up in California where it
seems like -- I feel that diversity is welcomed and accepted.
>> Okay.
>> So, you know, wherever I went there was always a good mix of, you know, like I said, there's all kinds of ethnicities.
>> And then, was there any barriers that I didn't ask you, that you think that impeded you?
>> I would say in terms of barriers I feel like mentors were -- there's not a lot of mentors in ->> Yes, go on.
>> In our community.
>> For Lao men or males or Lao's in general?
>> Lao in general, but males, too. But I think just -- just to find a Lao female, you know, that makes me thrilled, you
know.
>> That's why they're [inaudible] that's why they're googling you [laughter]. [inaudible] class.
>> Yeah.
>> [inaudible] you are the mentor.
>> Because you were talking about the cultural aspect, I feel like, and I don't know if it's -- if it just pertains to me or
not, but growing up I always felt like it was very intimidating to talk to a lawyer or a doctor, someone who's successful,
you know, or whatever, like a broker who's making good money, anyone. And so it never really felt like the -- you
know, for me to become a doctor or a lawyer, it never felt like it was something attainable or achievable. And also just
the process of going through college, I mean, my dad had a Master's. It's a -- it's a ->> That's like --
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>> It's a longer story with my dad because he wasn't able to -- long story short, he wasn't really able to help me out with
that because of like health issues.
>> He did his Master's in Lao or was here?
>> It was -- it was actually in Chicago. It was in Divinity.
>> Wow.
>> Because he was on his way -- he was on his way to becoming a priest.
>> Oh wow.
>> He was a seminarian and then ->> Okay.
>> Until, you know, he had me and priests can't do that.
>> Okay [laughter].
>> So yeah, but ->> That is quite rare, because he's a first gen, right?
>> Yeah, yeah, he's first generation for Tao men, yeah.
>> He -- is he a [inaudible] or is he a first gen?
>> First gen. He came here in I think like his 20's.
>> Oh no, he's a first gen.
>> He's a first gen through and through, yeah.
>> So he moved to a different country and he got a degree here?
>> Yeah, I think he spent some years ->> Amazing.
>> In the Philip -- so he went from Thailand and then he went to a boarding school, then he went to the Philippines, and
then Philippines to Chicago.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. And I think he actually he started in New York and then moved to Chicago so.
>> Wow.
>> But then -- so the twist to that story is that when I was nine years old he got in a severe car accident.
>> Oh dear.
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>> And so he wasn't able to -- luckily he was able to recover physically well, but mentally he had to kind of -- he wasn't
-- he wasn't really able to kind of draw back on his education much.
>> Okay. So that's the -- now this is the last part.
>> Okay.
>> Let's talk about Mr. Tony and only Mr. Tony.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. So, Mr. Tony, you know, you are a rare bird. You are a Southeast Asian male that has a BA, who went to one
of the best college -- universities on the planet. Why is it that you succeeded? What is your personality trait that made
you succeed? Like why? Is this your [inaudible] personality?
>> Right, right.
>> Is this -- have you changed?
>> Okay.
>> Like what about you?
>> Nothing about the environment.
>> Well, I mean ->> Just me personally.
>> Did you -- they have the [inaudible] but two people in the same environment have two different outcomes.
>> Right, right. So ->> What is your personality?
>> So poss -- so possibly -- should I just talk about both maybe?
>> It's up to you. It's up to you.
>> I will just say environment wise, because I'm a big believer in ->> Because there's like nature and nurture.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> So which ->> Right, right. And I don't know which one it was but, nurture wise just -- so when I was younger -- so my parents
always encouraged me to go to college. So we already know that. And then they enrolled me into like a gate school in
elementary school.
>> Okay.
>> And that put me around -- so the classes were tougher and the -- my peers were more academically -file:///C/...0Southeast%20Asian%20Successful%20Voices/Files%20for%20upload/22_Tony_Tonychontong_Thai-Lao_M_UCDavis.clean.txt[3/10/2022 9:08:30 AM]
>> Is this the same school that you went to -- they enrolled you in gate class but -- at the same school?
>> No, no, a different school.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, at a different school. So it's called Manchester Gate. So it's a gate elementary school. And so ->> The whole school is for elem -- for gate?
>> Yeah, yeah, exactly.
>> Oh my gosh, okay.
>> So it was -- it was -- so it was a lot more challenging. I remember -- because before that I went to another school and
like I feel like all you had to do was just show up and like you're getting A's or, you know, they give you G's for good,
right, back like when you're that young. And I remember like just being in the school yard people were like, I don't
know, playing marbles and stuff like that, like maybe they were gambling, too, I don't know. But, yeah, like -- and then
going to Manchester then -- I didn't even know what the word due meant. So I remember like one of the first -- you
know, first week of class you had an assignment due and I didn't know how to finish it by Thursday, and so I got in
trouble for that.
>> Wow.
>> So it was just a very ->> A bit different.
>> Different learning process.
>> You had to ->> Yeah, yeah.
>> They didn't tell you due date? You didn't know what it meant?
>> Apparently not.
>> Wow, okay.
>> Yeah, so I just remember because it was embarrassing because like everyone who didn't finish their assignment had
to stay standing. And I was like, oh, I didn't know I did something wrong.
>> Oh wow, okay. And you were first grade?
>> Oh, so by that point I was third grade.
>> Oh okay.
>> Yeah, so I don't know how I didn't know what due meant until third grade but ->> So your nature environment was quite good.
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>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just ->> From your nurture environment.
>> Nurture, nurture, yeah, right. So that -- so like I said, it was kind of a domino effect, because those classes were
harder. And then also, you know, your peers, too, and they challenge you. You're more -- in a more supportive
environment sort of academics, I would say. Or competitive, encouraging environment. And so that kind of set the way
for, you know, going to, you know, like taking harder classes, like I said, AP classes and so forth. So it was always an
environment that I was exposed to throughout. And so that was my nurture side.
>> So nature, if nature [inaudible] identifies gate. Not everyone gets into gate.
>> Right, right, right.
>> So you must have tested in.
>> Yeah, yeah, so I had to take a test. I failed it the first time, but then second grade I took it again. And, you know, that
also goes to show, too, that my parents had to -- wanted me to go to this school, so, you know, to take the twice, right.
>> Interesting.
>> They must have pushed for that, too. So, you know, I don't -- I don't think any six or seven year old says, hey, I want
to take a gate test to get into Manchester.
>> That is true, yes. So if you were looking at your personality, you've had, you know, barriers and you've overcome
them.
>> Yeah.
>> What -- why do you overcome things? Like is it your personality to -- like why don't you just give up? Like what is
it about your personality that makes you keep -- right? Like what is this ->> I feel ->> Trait you have? Separate from your parents, like the nature, I guess?
>> What makes me overcome? Maybe it's because I'm competitive in nature. So I'm always, you know, always try my
best to win. Always -- I don't know.
>> Were you competing against your cousins? Like what was ->> No, I mean -- I mean just to -- just to do well. I mean, I don't know. It never -- I never look at -- I don't accept failure,
you know, so it's not -- I don't -- I mean, I try not to fail. You know, that's just -- I don't know. I don't think anybody
really does, right?
>> But a lot of people sometimes they'll fail and they'll drop out. But why did you keep going?
>> I see, I see. I don't know.
>> We all fail.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> But our actions to it are different.
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>> Right, right, right. Good question. I guess, so maybe like outside of just your inner desire, I guess it can just be
things like social perceptions, I guess, or it can encourage you to ->> [inaudible] Asian model [inaudible], like you're Asian, you're smarter, is that what you're saying or?
>> No, I don't know. Maybe like you don't want to like disappoint your family or your community or your peers.
>> Interesting.
>> You know, but I mean, like I said, that's all secondary. That's just, I guess fuel to the fire. We're like really just a
personal want to do -- to do better for yourself and to succeed and whatever goals you set.
>> So moving away from you, you talked a lot about your family enablers. Can you think back of any cultural
institutions, like cultural, educational, financial, like the opposite of barrier, but what are these positive things that
helped you, right?
>> Right, right.
>> What are some [inaudible] boy club?
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, I hear you.
>> [inaudible], were you part of any Lao community?
>> So you're just talking about the cultural ones?
>> Yeah, anything.
>> Anything, anything.
>> Were you part of some dance troop or some -- just like Saturday Lao classes? I don't know.
>> No, no.
>> Thai classes? I don't know.
>> No, I didn't do any of those particular activities. I mean, I was -- I was part of a chess club when I was in sixth grade.
And like for me I guess that was -- that filled the competitive part of me. And also it's a -- it's a team aspect because
you're traveling with a team and so forth. But I would say what really affected me was joining like a volunteer -- like a
volunteer club at ->> Oh great.
>> In high school.
>> What was the volunteer club?
>> It was called Inner Serve.
>> Okay.
>> And I was also part of a club called The Lao Viet Club.
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>> Oh really? Where was this?
>> That was also at Edison.
>> Oh wow.
>> So these are -- these are school clubs.
>> Okay.
>> And so The Lao Viet Club was more so just to identify with your peers.
>> So it was for Lao and Vietnamese?
>> Yeah, yeah, because there was not enough to do just a Lao one, so they ->> Okay [laughter].
>> I know, right, it's funny.
>> But there was a [inaudible] club.
>> And I can't remember if there was a [inaudible] club, but there was an Asian club.
>> Okay.
>> And that one was predominantly [inaudible].
>> Okay.
>> So, but there might have been a [inaudible] club. I think there is a [inaudible] and Asian club, but I'm -- I can't
remember.
>> So we call that high impact activities when you volunteer. It has a lifetime affect.
>> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
>> Can you tell me, like what did you do in this Lao club? What did you do in this volunteer club?
>> Yeah, so for Inter Serve we did everything. We volunteered at like a Civil War re-enactment.
>> In Fresno?
>> Yeah, in Fresno. At a leukemia walk. It was called Light the Night, or I think it's leukemia but -- leukemia
lymphoma but ->> You did the books -- you did the tables, right?
>> Yeah, the tables, right. And I think like we helped out wherever we could, like balloons, or giving out shirts, and so
on and so forth. Just cleaning projects and so forth. It was a long time ago. I can't remember all of it.
>> How did that affect you? Because you still remember it now so ->> Yeah, and also I want to add on, too. The Lao Viet one, we didn't do too many community service events, but one
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that really stood out for me was we went to a retirement home.
>> Okay.
>> And I met this lady who had Alzheimer's. And she was like -- have you ever met -- did you ever meet an Alzheimer's
-- a person with Alzheimer's, it's a very interesting experience. Because it was like she was like a cassette on repeat. You
know, you -- she kept repeating herself. So that, you know, that was very interesting for me. And I think like
cumulatively all these activities, they help you realize, I highly encourage anyone to volunteer, there are people who
need help, you know. And so it helps you put things into perspective, such as like, you know, you might be complaining
about a ketchup stain in your shirt when, you know, can't even get food for the day. Or -- and also it gives you selfworth -- excuse me, self-worth, too. You know, that you, just one person, can make an impact in your community and
help others. So those were -- you know, those are just some of the lessons that I got from volunteering in high school.
>> Awesome, okay. So you gave us so much great -- so many great kind of innervation. So now can you tell me, yes or
no, okay?
>> Yeah.
>> Smaller classes, do you want smaller classes?
>> Does it have to be yes or no?
>> Oh, I mean ->> It depends, but ->> It's up to you, to help you graduate?
>> To help me -- to help -- to help you graduate?
>> Smaller classes in general are better, so that you can inner -- there's -- that way the teachers and the students can
have more one on one.
>> You had both.
>> Right.
>> You had the -- when you said you were small and then Davis was big.
>> Oh yeah.
>> So you prefer smaller classes?
>> Smaller is nice because you're basically talking to your teacher every day.
>> How many -- 45 or how -- where would you say a number?
>> In terms of the ideal amount?
>> Uh-huh, for you.
>> For me, 30 to 40. But then again, you know, when -- it all depends. I mean, like I said, and like I was in a 100
student class and, you know, sometimes there's no reason to have -- to break that up you would probably need like 12
classes of chemistry instead of one class -- one lecture hall for 100. So I understand obviously to the logistics of it all.
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But personally I -- you know, I think it's a no brainer when -- in terms of teacher student ration. That way it's easier for
the students and teachers to have more one on one time.
>> Co-ethnic professors, do you want all Thai or Asian professors, Thai Lao professors, or all Asian professors?
Difference or no? Do you want that?
>> No, I ->> More Asian professors or?
>> Yes, more, more would be nice, but I would like some diversity. It's ->> Okay.
>> But not all.
>> What about your co-ethnics, you see in Irvine [assumed spelling] 70% Asian.
>> Uh-huh.
>> Do you want that or?
>> In terms of students?
>> Yes.
>> At a -- at a campus?
>> Is that [inaudible] in Irvine.
>> Wow, that's a lot, 70%.
>> Yeah.
>> That still blows me away [laughter]. Would I want that?
>> It's a norm for them.
>> Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say I wouldn't want it, but I guess maybe I prefer just some more diverse group just so,
because I think one of the joys of living in America is the -- our diversity.
>> Okay. What about ethnic clubs? Do you want Lao clubs, more Lao clubs? More Thai clubs? More?
>> Yeah, sure, why not.
>> Okay.
>> It's always fun to learn Lao more.
>> Do you do any college success workshops? And if you wanted some, I don't know if you want or not, but what
would it be on?
>> Yeah, I think -- I think it would be nice to have more workshops. So this is just to be successful in college or just
anything in general?
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>> After college.
>> Oh, after college and during college I'm 100% for workshops that pertain finding employment. In terms, for
example, interview skills, maybe skills on how to find jobs, on how to write your cover letter, CV's, resumes.
>> Okay. This is something we could do.
>> Yeah.
>> This is great advice. Thank you. And then what about Asians, because Asians are always taught to look down and
not be assertive. That will really hurt them in the college, would you want a college success program -- workshop
typically geared toward Asian cultural norms to kind of like break them in order to -- because for them to be successful
they'll have to break their cultural norm.
>> No, definitely.
>> Because a weak handshake is not going to make it.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> You have to have like, but that would go against ->> I think -- I think what -- I agree with what you said. I think it really needs to be -- it needs exposure. I don't -because for me I think it's just something that -- it's something culturally instilled and I -- you don't really realize it until
somebody points it out that, you know, you -- why are you -- why you're so soft spoken or ->> Right.
>> Why do you tend to keep your head down or you know ->> So would you want a workshop on that, because ->> Yes.
>> Asians are always [inaudible] by yourself, be, you know ->> Humble, yeah.
>> Humble. But in the American job market you have to toot your own horn.
>> Yeah.
>> And if you don't toot your horn you won't get the job, because everyone is like I'm great at this, I'm great at this so.
>> Absolutely. I know, it's so -- it's really out of your comfort zone. And, yeah, that's -- so I am a proponent of that.
>> Okay.
>> It -- I think like maybe like simulated workshops or, you know, maybe examples. You know, like just ->> Do you need -- do you want podcasts? Do you want webinars? Do you want [inaudible].
>> Yeah, yeah.
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>> Asians are often don't go to things but they like in the privacy of their internet.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> They're internet warriors.
>> Yeah, yeah. Webinars are good, yeah. I like that.
>> Podcasts or no?
>> Podcasts would be nice, too. I think what really helps is to have examples. So, yeah, so as long as you can like ->> Like a mentor?
>> Like a -- like maybe like a simulation, I guess maybe like a -- like a -- like a -- like just to like watch. Like for med
school we had these mock interviews for med school, right. And so you can go in yourself and do these interviews,
right, as if you're interviewing for med school. And then like you said, it's hard to bring people in. So if you can like
broadcast that or put it on a webinar where they can see somebody do that.
>> Okay, excellent.
>> Those are ->> Those are great tips.
>> I think those are -- those are helpful.
>> Do you [inaudible] any other questions about bridges? If not, I'll go to the last question.
>> Bridges?
>> Anything else that helped you be so successful thinking back? You got the nurture, you got the nature, but ->> Yeah.
>> You had all that childhood stuff, anything at all?
>> Just in case it doesn't come up later, so I was lucky enough to, when I was around 18, 19, to meet a doctor, a Lao
doctor. And so ->> Interesting.
>> And so that right there just ->> Okay.
>> That, I mean, she was -- she was being very helpful to me so, and it helped that she was, you know, very open arms
and ->> Is this Dr. Cappa [assumed spelling]?
>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
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>> Okay. She's amazing.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And so it's nice, because at the time I was -- I was considering med school, too. Or, well not med
school but just going into the sciences. And, you know, so just to see someone like that, because I already knew at that
time how hard it was to get into medical school and to finish medical school and become a doctor. So it was just -- it
was nice to someone in your community who have done all those things. Because prior to that, I mean, I don't think I
would have known anyone that was a doctor and had a personal relationship and ->> Okay.
>> You know, she's become a really good friend of mine so.
>> Great. You [inaudible] ask her for help.
>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that ->> So, Mr. Tony, the last questions is the third generation, fourth generation. The second generation they're all here
struggling [inaudible]. The third generation is going to come up [inaudible].
>> Yeah.
>> [inaudible], some of them will come up at 18. They'll go to [inaudible] first here.
>> Right, right.
>> What can you tell these little 12 -- well, they're not going to listen to this for some six years but ->> Yeah.
>> What can you tell the third -- maybe the second generation, what can you tell the third and fourth generation to keep
going, to graduate?
>> Right, right.
>> What advice can you give them to just [inaudible] Mr. Tony and why? Can you give them any advice?
>> There's help out there. Man, it -- you know, like there is help out there. So you just -- you just got to keep -- you just
got to keep pushing yourself to find help that you can get. People want to, at least from my experience, yeah, you will
encounter people who want to put you down or -- maybe not put you down, but more so you might run into a counselor
that will say based off your grades you probably won't get into Stanford or whatever. But just don't give up. Don't give
up. You know, reach out for help because, you know, to that one counselor there will probably be maybe 10 others who
will encourage you and try to help you out. So just -- if you really want something just keep working for it. In particular
to our community, it's hard. It's hard to find a mentor.
>> Yes.
>> And I get that, but everyone that I've seen in our community who's done well and is successful, they want to help. So
->> So reach out?
>> Just reach out, just reach out. Tell people that -- oh, that's what I was going to say earlier. You know like, I was in a
club at Fresno City College called The Pre-Health Society. And the president at that time of the club, he kept putting
everything in a social media and everything he did, like any kind of event that we did or any achievement, he always
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talked about it. I remember the newspaper would come. And interesting, too, because he's Vietnamese, right. So, you
know, so he'd bring, you know, the Fresno City College Newspaper and, hey, you know, we, the Pre-Health Society did
this and we got this many numbers. And I remember having a conversation with him about that. And he said -- he said,
you know what, like I do this because that way people will hear about us and know what we're doing. And this, you
know, opens up doors to other opportunities and so forth. And, you know, like you were saying, we're kind of -- we're
brought up to be humble, to do things, to not talk about it. And so that was -- that was a pretty interesting eye-opening
experience for me just because ->> Going against the Asian norm.
>> Yeah, because now we're just talking about everything, and it helped out. You know, it brought exposure and so on
and so forth. So, you know, so I guess kind of in light of with what I was saying earlier, just -- it's okay to tell people
you need help. You know, I think for -- I'm not sure if it's still like this, but in my time like when you ask for tutoring it
was almost kind of looked down upon because it means like you're stupid and you need help with something, right? But,
you know, you get to college and you learn quickly, like there's a lot of tutoring support for classes you're going to
struggle with. And, or tutoring for a paper that you need to turn in and so you get it revised. And so there's just so much
help out there. Just, you know, if you need help, tell people you need help and look for it, because it's out there.
>> And you graduated seven years ago, right?
>> Yes.
>> So now looking back, what are the positive things that college gave you had you not gone to college?
>> College, yeah, yeah.
>> Like what if Mr. Tony did not go to college?
>> Right, right.
>> But you did go to college, what are the positive things that you have seen that helped to transform your life in a way?
>> That's a -- there's a -- there's a mindset to college that you have to have -- and I didn't -- I didn't really notice this
until maybe like three, five years later after I graduated. You kind -- you have to become -- I guess if you wanted to sum
it up, critical thinking from college. You really have to become a critical thinker and learn, for example, probably
regardless of what field you go into in college, you have to learn how to research. And so research may involve reading
numerous articles or journals and then learning how to read them from a critical point of view and not just believing,
you know, your first article that you read. But beside that, I mean, just learning how to get things done. You know, in
college you -- there's so many obstacles in the way, you know, in terms of it could be food, money for food, or
transportation to school, and you just got to find a way to persevere and find ways to accomplish it.
>> And my very, very last question is, do you have any specific advice to Asian males?
>> Asian males [laughter]. Man, Asian males. I don't know if it would be any different for Asian females. Boy, Asian
males. I could see why -- I could see why Asian males have a tougher time than Asian females. My thinking goes that
it's the environment of maybe like Asian males they kind of tend to, I don't know, not be so serious about school when
they're in their younger years and they're focused more maybe on partying or getting like nice cars and nice clothes. I'm
not sure what it is. So for -- I would say this is my life if I were to [inaudible]. Find -- let's say you take a class, like a
biology class or something, and you start to find people that like are doing well in the class and you -- and you connect
with them and -- on a personal level, but maybe they might be different in ethnicity, right, and I think, you know, for
Southeast Asians we tend to stick together, right. We tend to just have Southeast Asian friends and so forth. You know,
just encourage yourself to just get yourself out of that comfort zone, make that connection.
>> Group studying.
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>> Group study, you know. Get ->> [inaudible] ask some questions, okay.
>> Yeah, and put yourself in those uncomfortable situations where you meet -- you meet people that -- and you become
friends with people that you normally don't associate with.
>> Okay.
>> Because it can open up doors and perspectives to other things that you may not have been aware of.
>> Excellent, thank you. If that's all, thank you so much for your time. I'm going to turn off the interview. I ->> Okay.
>> Thank you so much.
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