Debbie Xiong interview
Item
Title
Debbie Xiong interview
Creator
Xiong, Debbie
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00005
extracted text
>> Hello, welcome Debbie. Thank you so much for consenting to be interviewed for the new successful Southeast
Asian archive that we will deposit at Fresno State so future generations can hear your story.
>> Okay.
>> Can you say your name and give me verbal permission to record you.
>> Yes. I'm Debbie Xiong. Allow.
>> Okay, thank you. Okay. What is your gender?
>> Female.
>> What is your date -- your birth year?
>> 1985.
>> What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> I'm Hmong American. I was born in Minnesota St. Paul.
>> What was your undergraduate major?
>> Public health and the health administration.
>> What is your generation [inaudible]?
>> I am the first generation. Yeah.
>> What is your mother and father's highest education?
>> My father received his, actually, certification in electronics. Yeah.
>> Okay. What about your mother?
>> No. No, high -- no degree at -- no education at all.
>> What was your family composition? Brothers and sisters, I mean.
>> I have five brothers and four sisters.
>> Okay, and mom and dad. And what was your GPA?
>> At Fresno State it was a 2.8. Yeah.
>> What's your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> Well, I would love to continue going on with my Masters. You know.
>> Okay. In what?
>> At this point right now, I am still undecided. But I would like to continue higher education.
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>> Oh.
>> Yeah.
>> We do have a new EDD now at Fresno State online with Channel Islands and EDD actually; Education doctorate.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Just tell you.
>> Okay yeah.
>> Growing up in your family background -- not now. But your family background. When you were growing up, do
you come from a working-class, middle, or affluent background? Which environment?
>> Working.
>> Working? Okay. Was your high school public or private?
>> It's public.
>> And what high school was that?
>> Fresno High School but I graduated at a continuation school. J.E. Young high school.
>> Okay. In your either school what was the ratio in ethnic demographics? Like what is it Hispanic? Is it --?
>> It's Hispanic and Asian.
>> Was it -- What percentage? If you could guess?
>> I would say Hispanic it was the most in Fresno.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Why do Hmong go to college? Why do they go? And why do they not go?
>> I think because parents in the Asian -- especially in the Hmong community -- parents make it very known to have
their kids pursue higher education.
>> In what ways?
>> They're constantly talking about it because you know they talk about their struggles. The fact that they didn't have an
education. So that we're here in the United States, we need to take advantage of that.
>> So, you were kind of push to, from a ->> Yes, every single -- every time. Yeah.
>> Oh, interesting. Do Hmong students have strong relationships with faculty and administrators?
>> I think some. It really depends because I have sisters who were very, very shy. And then me on the other hand, I was
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extremely outspoken. So, I mean, it just really depends.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> What is your favorite subject? What's your least favorite subject?
>> Math is my -- I can't deal with math.
>> Okay.
>> But I love science.
>> That's a stereotype.
>> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. But I love science.
>> Oh. Great. Okay. Have you ever been mentored? Has anyone given you advice?
>> Yeah, I guess I have. Yeah.
>> In college or high school?
>> I would say high school, middle school.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Has any teacher given you -- what is actually the teacher expectations of you in high school and in college? Were
they neutral? Were they high? Were they low?
>> Yeah. You'll see every teacher's different. And so, I've experienced both good and bad.
>> Okay.
>> So, yeah, both, yeah.
>> How did your teachers treat your other -- let's say in this case, Southeast Asian co-ethnics in college also in high
school? Was it -- or was it just neutral treatment? High, low, neutral?
>> You do notice some favoritism; you know? You do notice it. But ->> Was it towards Southeast Asians or not towards Southeast Asians?
>> Most likely not.
>> And then were your teachers Asian at all?
>> I had probably quite a -- probably two Asian Hmong teachers.
>> Oh, okay.
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>> I think maybe. Yeah. Well, in the Hmong club I had -- I took Hmong class ->> Oh, great! Okay.
>> Yeah. So ->> Okay. Awesome.
>> Yeah. At high school.
>> Did you take -- do you have the Hmong minor?
>> The what?
>> The Hmong minor?
>> What do you mean?
>> There's a -- she -- Dr. Yang created a Hmong minor now.
>> No.
>> You take like -- you get the minor.
>> Oh, no. I never took that. No.
>> So, do you remember any notable media depictions of your ethnic group? Hmong movies? A Hmong in the movie?
>> No, yeah. I've always watched Hmong movies growing up too. My dad and them we always had Hmong movies. But
not like -- it's just Hmong movies. It's not like, you know, big time -- I don't know. I don't think there's any Hmong
superstar that I really know.
>> Singers, dancers?
>> Well, I -- my sister-in-law she's into it a little bit. She's in a couple of Hmong movies and she sings and she knows
quite a few ->> Oh, wow!
>> People that does that stuff.
>> So, is it set in Fresno or --?
>> Well, I don't even know how to explain it. Well, you know, because you know the Hmong community, there's not
that many -- we don't have that type of like -- you know how they have the Spanish channel? They even have a Laos and
Thai channel. Stuff like that.
>> Really?
>> Yeah, they do. But it's kind of like in these different channels.
>> Oh, okay.
>> I mean, my cousin -- I have cousins personally that were in the Hmong channel -- in Channel 18 here in Fresno but
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then they had a little show. But, yeah. I mean.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Yeah, at my blood cousin. My dad's brother's son. So, yeah.
>> Okay. All right. So, this is an optional section. And so, you can skip it. You don't have to answer any of this. So
then, did you have any barriers to your education success such as like working or children?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> I don't know. Culture, gender, blah, blah.
>> No, I had.
>> Any barriers?
>> Yes, children. I had -- I was pregnant at 17. And so, I gave birth at 18. So that's one of the reasons. I was at Fresno
High School and I got pregnant at 17, so I had to go to a continuation school. And I didn't even think I was going to go
to college. College was out of my mind. My main focus was on my daughter. And as I mentioned to you before, I
struggled in grade school and, you know, high school. I never did well in school. It was always a challenge for me. So, I
didn't think I could even succeed in college because I had such a hard time in high school. So, yeah.
>> But what made you go to college? That's incredible.
>> No, yeah. When I was working for Fresno Unified and I just a teacher's aide. And so, one of the teachers there, she
inspired me. She said that: you know, you should go to college and just go to the community college and just take a
couple classes and, you know, you'll get paid more. And she's like: you know, you have a daughter now. You need to
think about her future and, you know. With me -- with my parents; they tell you all the time "go to college, go to
college," but they never really ->> They told you that?
>> Yeah. My parents always told -- like my dad always wanted me to be a nurse. You know how the parents, they
always want you to be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, something like that. And so, the thing is that they never really showed me
how. They just talked. And that -- there was no support there. My older sister she was very smart in ways of the "how"
to do, "what" to do; you know? So, everything came easily for her to go to college. But for me, it was really hard. I
didn't, you know -- I didn't have -- you know, even though I joined in all these clubs. I volunteered a lot in high school. I
really didn't understand what college was really about. I never understood at all.
>> Did you sister go to college before you?
>> My older sister; yeah.
>> Did she go to Fresno State?
>> Yeah. She graduated -- I have four sisters. I mean, four other sisters. Three of them all graduated from State.
>> What's the order? I mean [inaudible]
>> My older sister, first. And then my younger sister. The one after me and then the one after her. And so, then I'm the
fourth one that graduated.
>> That's an incredible family!
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>> Yeah.
>> That's a very rare family. Four?
>> And it's only the daughters that graduate. None of the brothers have.
>> You're kidding me?
>> Yeah. So, that's, you know, my dad always says, "You know, my daughters are always the successful ones. My sons
are, you know, I always had problems with them." My dad always stress about that.
>> Why? Can you speak about that? Why? I mean you had a lot of barriers. But why did daughters go through ->> I think it's because ->> [Inaudible] with typically in the statistics.
>> Yeah. That's -- you're right. I mean, my brothers: all of them, just discouraged. Mainly lazy. My little brother right
now, he's going to college. But he's very lazy. All the -- you know, what my dad would say, "All they do is they're into
games." Video games, internet, just computer. And so, my other brother, he was in the Army. So you know, he's just
focused on that family. So yeah. I mean, the brothers. I don't' understand why. It's just ->> Do you think you would have a bigger barrier if you're a male? Or do you think that you have more support you're a
woman or?
>> I think for us, we just strive for that. Just because, you know, growing up you see the men being always the powerful
one. You know? Make -- being the breadwinner. And we here, the female, I think we just wanted -- we wanted that
respect. And so, we're thinking, we go to college ->> Interesting.
>> And having that type of education, higher education, will make us smarter and make us, you know, be I guess more
respected. Because for my dad, you know, in the Hmong community, all they think about: "Did you child graduate?
What did they graduate?" The parents -- the old ->> There's a lot of community pressure.
>> Yeah. Yes, yes. All the parents. Like all the parents say, "Oh, so how may daughters do you have? Are they married?
Are they -- do they go to school? What kind of job?" They just want to know, you know, what level your child's success
stories. That's all they care about.
>> Wow!
>> And so, yeah. My ->> Did you feel this pressure to go to college?
>> Of course. I mean it was. It was because every time, every year we'll have a reunion. And during the reunion, all they
talk about is college, college, college. And they pressure even my child. And that's my mistake -- my fault too because
right now, I'm leading that same example. I'm pressuring my kids all the time; college, college, college.
>> Is it -- It's the pressure from the men or the elders?
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>> Elders.
>> Is it elder men and elder women or both genders?
>> It's the majority of the men whose always talking about -- the elder men who are always saying -- and the mothers
and the elder women too. So, it's both I see.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. They're always -- especially in the Hmong community that's so big. Because in the Laotian -- my husband's
side -- they don't really talk about it that much. I don't see that being such an issue because I don't see a lot of them.
>> They're not as successful ->> No.
>> Educationally.
>> Yeah.
>> Then the Hmong [Inaudible] right now.
>> Yeah. So, in the Hmong. Yeah, yeah. Sure is. I guess. So that's what I've seen so far. Yeah.
>> Okay, interesting. So, you had kind of cultural, family pressure.
>> Yeah.
>> And then community pressure and then your sisters going.
>> Yeah.
>> Did that inspire you to go to college?
>> Yeah, definitely. Because, you know, my older sister got it first and then my younger sister got and then my other
younger sister got it. And so, I was still -- for me, I had four kids. And so, struggling to go to school, work part-time,
watch my kids, even watch my sister's kids. I mean, we were just -- it was.
>> So, tell us how you did it? Because other moms would be listening to this.
>> Yeah. I know.
>> And they'll say the same thing.
>> Yeah.
>> I have two kids.
>> It's discouraging. Yeah.
>> How -- I mean, what can you say to the moms to inspire them to kind of ->> For me, I mean, it was really hard because like, you know, the thing about it is like, you know, they -- you know,
you -- I never found excuses to not go to school, college even if it was taking online classes, night classes. I always
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found some way to take classes every semester. There's only one semester -- I've been going to college for 10 years;
Fresno City College of Fresno State. And out of that 10 years, I only took one semester off ->> Wow, that's great.
>> Out of those 10 years. And I was either part-time, full-time. You know, but I was always focused on going to
college.
>> How did you -- I mean, I guess any tips to organization of how to? Because how did you do it?
>> I know. No, I was very active in the community actually.
>> Okay.
>> While going to college, I was into -- I always joined clubs. Even the community. I was -- I'm also an
environmentalist. And so ->> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah. I do a lot of -- just a lot of things. Even with church too, I'm the sabbath school director for my church. And
so, I'm just ->> Oh, wow!
>> I was out there just doing things. Keeping myself busy. So, I think when you keep yourself busy, you -- I don't know.
For me, I guess ->> How did you do homework and all the other stuff?
>> You know the thing -- that's why I -- that's what I said too. I don't remember.
>> It's amazing.
>> I don't even really know how I graduated. You know, four kids. I never really got to study that much. I was just -- I
think you could say I was fortunate enough that the teachers were -- I guess you could say some of the them were very
lenient. And so, I think that's probably one of the mistakes that teachers do. They become too lenient. And that made me
slide with how I got a good grade sometimes. The majority of the time I'll get Cs and Bs and I'll have to work sometime
to get that A. But, yeah, I don't even know either.
>> That's incredible actually.
>> Yeah.
>> And this is -- actually this might not apply to you. But this might apply to more -- this is originally for AfricanAmerican [inaudible]. But did you feel like there was any kind of assumption of inferiority based on race or class or
gender? I mean, is there -- do you think that there's a perception that, oh -- this is originally for African-Americans -like: oh, African-Americans ->> Yeah
>> Are not good at school. Or do you think there is ->> No.
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>> Is there a stereotype helping you?
>> No.
>> Or detracting you or ->> Well, because in class I'm very verbal. And people think that I'm smart. And so, they'll try to, you know -- No. I
mean, if anything, more people would ask me more questions. And so, thinking that Asians ->> Do you ask a lot of questions?
>> No. Yeah. I ask a lot of questions too. But I was also the student who the teacher would know because I was always
talking. When the teacher would ask a question, I would raise my hand and answer. I was always verbal. And so -- in
class. And so other students, you know, would notice that and would, like, ask me questions and so. I was never -- I'm
not a good test taker. I'm just very visual. I guess you can say I'm a visual person. I don't know.
>> So, that's actually excellent that you ask questions because we are behind that ->> Yeah. No, not a lot.
>> Not asking questions and ->> Yeah. In class, you notice. Yeah.
>> And that's not good.
>> Yeah. When I'm in class, I noticed a lot of other Asians do not talk at all.
>> That is correct.
>> They don't even associate. Don't even eye contact or anything while I'm over here raising my hand talking and ->> Wow!
>> Just being very verbal. So, they notice me too. Because in class, I don't notice them because they're so quiet. But
outside, they're like: "Hey" -- they'll come ask me a question. I'm like, "I don't even know who you are." She's like, "Oh,
you're in my class." I'm like, "Oh." You know, so. I wouldn't even know -- because they notice me because I talk a lot in
class.
>> So you're kind of like -- kind of a leader already during classes. Because [inaudible] for the Asians who don't talk.
>> Yeah. I guess you can say that.
>> Amazing. Okay. Do you think there's anything I didn't ask you about barriers? If not, we're going to go to the
success.
>> No, I think I explained. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, Ms. Debbie, you know, you are -- as I tell everyone, a rare bird; right? Like a unicorn. Why -what about your personality that, you know, you said you had a child [inaudible] four kids. Why did you make it, when
the majority -- the vast majority, do not make it? What is it -- is this your personality you had since fourth grade? Why?
>> No. As I mentioned, it was all for my kids. I wanted something better [inaudible].
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>> Okay.
>> I think every mother story -- success story is also about trying to better themselves for their kids could see it.
Because if you fail in college, then your kid is going to. You know, might fail and say, "Well, you didn't go to college."
I didn't want to be that parent where, you know: go to college, go to college. And the kid's going, "Well, you didn't go to
college. Why do I have to go to college?"
>> Good point.
>> Yeah. So, I wanted to be that example. So that's why I ->> And they saw you study.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean ->> They see me struggle.
>> You've already showed them.
>> Yeah. I've always tried to, you know, set examples for them like that. So that was one of the ones. Yeah, one of
them.
>> That's great. Before your kids, we're you like this in third grade, fifth grade? High school?
>> In high school I was already -- I volunteered a lot. I was already since middle school and elementary. I had great
teachers actually in elementary who kind of opened my eyes to volunteering and opened my eyes to science -- the love
for science and education. So, you'll get one teacher; hopefully. Because I think going to school, hopefully, you'll meet a
teacher that's going to inspire you. I think that's the only way -- the only reason why I got inspired. Because, as I said,
my parents they'll tell you: go to college, go to college. But they don't show you. And so, the teachers here, they actually
show you. They give you. They inspire you. And so, I had people who inspired me. And so, I think that's, you know -- I
still think back about them, you know, the reason why I'm where I'm at because, you know, I've learned from them.
>> And it's like by people listening to your story, you also will inspire the next generation.
>> Yeah. Hopefully.
>> Great, okay. Thinking back, you said you're not a Hmong B-boy.
>> No.
>> Or girl. Did you have any cultural bridges that helped you? I mean you weren't a B-boy, but was there any like -- is
there a cultural club that you were part of that helped you? I mean, what kept you going when of course, you know,
there are many instances that you could've quit. Like did you have financial help ->> I think ->> Structural help, gender help, educational-cultural help? I mean, bridges; I guess.
>> No. I mean. I guess. The only things that you see other people success stories
>> Really?
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>> And you want to you -- you don't want to feel alone.
>> How did you see them?
>> Well, just the fact that you know growing up you'll see your cousins and, you know, a nice house, a nice car. And
you're like, "Oh, you know, how do I get there?" And then you'll notice that: well they've gone to college. You know,
you hear that all the time too: college, college, college. And so that, kind of, stick in your head. And it's like: okay, you
know, I'm going to have to go to try to ->> Right.
>> But you don't understand. Like I didn't understand the amount of knowledge I was going to gain from it. I didn't -the experience of college. It wasn't just going to college. I gained much more than that. The respect of, you know,
diversity and all that stuff. You learn so much about just the education and getting a job. Because for me now, it's not -it's not about that getting the job. It's just -- it's all about, you know, being happy, being content, just having more
knowledge, making you aware -- self-awareness and all of that.
>> Definitely.
>> And so, you know.
>> So, speaking for your sisters, do you think that it changed them too; college?
>> Well ->> What push them? Was it the same cultural, family that pushed them?
>> I think that everyone's different. But for my older sister, she was -- I would say she was a success story. She also had
a child but she was already going to college when she got pregnant. But she's the type that she finished her college
degree, she got a job, bought a house, bought cars, and building a family. So, she was that success story; however, my
younger sister she did the right things. However, she's still stuck at the bottom where right now she's not even working.
She has a -- she graduated. She tried to get a job, random job here and there. And she got pregnant and then moved out
of state. Tried to open a business. A restaurant business. And now has just fallen in between. The college degree she got
wasn't meant for her -- social work. She can't deal with pressure and the stress of being a social worker. And so, right
now, she's shifting gears trying to be a yoga instructor. Just shifting gear. But still right now she's jobless and so, that's
the hard part for her. So, she didn't -- she wasn't the success story.
>> But still getting her degree is ->> Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
>> Very rare.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Is very rare.
>> Definitely, yeah, yeah.
>> But then my younger sister right now was -- you know she got her degree. And then just working random job here
and there. And then luckily, she just got accepted to get her Masters in nursing. And she'll become a PA, physician
assistant.
>> You're kidding?
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>> Yes. And so, she's in the process. That why I was in LA. I was in LA. We were looking for her apartment.
>> That's great. That's great.
>> She one of the -- she'll be the first one to get her Masters in our family and the first generation.
>> [Inaudible] It's hard to get a PA.
>> Yeah, yeah. A PA.
>> So hard.
>> So that's why we're so proud of her. She's going to be the. Yeah. I know. She's going to be the success story in our
family. Where my dad -- because you know in Hmong community family they're always about, you know: do you have
a doctor in family? Do you have a lawyer in the family? That's all they talk about.
>> A PA is better than a doctor.
>> Yeah. I know. No.
>> There's no [inaudible].
>> Yeah, yeah. It's hard. So yeah, that's why my sister will be this -- you know, the success story in our family. So,
that's -- I don't know how I got to this [inaudible].
>> Yeah, but no, no. But thank you. Also, that's very inspiring.
>> Yeah.
>> So, so actually this part I just asked you: what do you want? Smaller class makes a difference or no difference?
>> It's just more personal a smaller class. But, yeah. I mean. I think, yeah. Just taking both classes. A big class and a
smaller class ->> No difference?
>> I don't think there's difference. Yeah.
>> Okay. What about co-ethnic professors. Do you want all Hmong professors?
>> No. I just want a good professor because you get so many professors who don't care; you know? Who you could tell
they just do their job and that's it. They don't even. Not inspiring, not trying to push you to get, you know, to -- I don't
know. It's just different difference on the ->> What about co-ethnic classmates? [Inaudible] 70% Asian college ->> For me, I really didn't -- it didn't matter to me at all.
>> Okay. What about ethnic clubs? Hmong sorority?
>> Yeah. I did -- I unfortunately didn't join that in college. I was in the breast-feeding college and club up in State. I was
in the Sustainability Project --
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>> You can paint?
>> Yeah, at State. And those two clubs I kind of were in the beginning of that start of the club.
>> [Inaudible] breastfeeding club at Fresno State?
>> Yeah.
>> What is that club? [inaudible]
>> It's allowing parents, breastfeeding mothers, students to have the support system. Because when I went to Fresno
State in 2012, I had to look all around to see if there's a breast pumping station. There was none. And so that was one of
my barriers too. Where am I going to breast pump? You know?
>> Right.
>> And while searching for the it, we finally built this club up. And so, it's been going on -- now we have breast
pumping stations at Fresno State.
>> That's great!
>> Because -- yeah. And so, I was kind of a part of. You know? A part of that the club when it started because in 2012
there was none. Now they have it.
>> So, tell me more. What can we do to make Fresno State warmer for mothers?
>> Warmer for mothers?
>> What can we do?
>> We -- with the club, we actually go out there with fake boobs. And you know see what students' reaction were. A lot
of students still -- you know, you still see that -- what's that word for it? Still grossed out by it. Like, "Eww, why are you
guys having, you know, boobs out in public?" And so, people are still not letting us breast-feeding mothers -- I guess, I
don't know -- express that. I don't know.
>> Okay
>> So it's still out there. It's still -- I guess you could say, it's still not wanted. It's still not ->> Would you want a mothers' club on campus or?
>> Well, we have a breastfeeding club so ->> Okay. Is there a fathers' club? Because what about the men?
>> Oh, I don't know.
>> The fathers.
>> Yeah, we support men to be in it too. We had a male in there.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know if he's still in there. But, yeah. We encourage even -- we've encouraged fathers to join the club and to be
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open to this. Because, you know, there's quite a few, you know, breast-feeding mothers that -- it's either staff or is a
student there.
>> Great.
>> So, yeah.
>> You made a huge impact -- You changed Fresno State [inaudible].
>> We did. The club did. Yeah, the club. I'm proud of the club. Yeah.
>> Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you think I didn't ask you any questions about bridges I could have asked you? Any other bridges?
>> I think that's [inaudible] Yeah, that's good.
>> So, in probably six years, seven years the third-generation will be coming in.
>> Yeah.
>> And they'll have struggles similar to yours; dissimilar but similar. Do you have any advice for the third and fourth
generation that are coming through to Fresno State? But not just Fresno State, but in college in general in the globe?
>> Yeah. I think ->> What advice do you have to them that's, keep staying and finish. Why is in college, in good?
>> Yeah. I mean, I think a lot for some students it might be intimidating because they don't have their support group. I
know that for me coming in, I was always afraid of -- like for me, I mentioned many times I struggled in school. And so,
I felt that: I'm going to struggle in college even more. Because, you know, just filling out the application, having all the
necessary paperwork. I've always -- even with my financial aid, I've always struggled: I'm missing a paper or I'm
missing -- and that would just like: if you're missing a paper and they make it -- Put it this way; they kind of make it
hard for you to get. Even though it's not hard. You just need to provide all the information. People like just be tired of it.
You know what? I don't want to find the paper for what's needed.
>> Is it financially aid or ->> Financially aid too was hard for me. Like I kept missing a paper, you know, just having to ->> Do you want a workshop on that? Do you -- I mean ->> They provide all of that. I guess for me, I just -- you know the videos. They do a lot of help resource -- there's a lot
of resources out there. It's just overwhelming because there's so much information and so much resources that you kind
of don't know where to start. It's really, really stressful I think. But I mean, you know I -- me myself go to these types of
training classes to be aware of it. But I think some students are just -- they just -- they don't try. They just going to give
up. And say: you know, that's just too much stuff. Too much information. That's one thing I noticed about some of my
friends who didn't want to pursue college anymore. Because it's just too much work. They find excuses. There's excuses
for everything. For the not to succeed. And so, they did not want to go that extra mile. They never tried to go the extra
mile. And for me; even though I don't think I give it my all, I try at least. That's how I -- yeah.
>> You are the rare [inaudible].
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>> Yeah, yeah. So, I was actually 10 years it took me. Over 10 years to finally get.
>> But it's worth it because you the [inaudible].
>> Yeah. Definitely worth it. Yeah, yeah. I'm proud of it.
>> You should be.
>> Yeah.
>> So is there the positive -- if you could end with: what are the positive things you've gotten from graduating? Like,
you talk -- [inaudible].
>> As I mentioned ->> It's not in the school, but it seems like ->> No, yeah. Like I said, like, when I -- my own first impression was just going to college and getting that degree and
hopefully working. But, you know like I said, I gained so much knowledge, so much perspective in life. Because you
learn about -- like I mentioned, diversity. You learn about other culture. You learn so much because of the classes they
make you take. You know. Just classes you take too. The general classes that you have to take. It opens your eyes to not
be so, I guess, judgmental. I don't know. Like it just makes you more self-aware of life in general. Because if I didn't
take any of these classes, I wouldn't have known. I would still be, you know -- I don't know, probably disrespecting
another. I don't know. I never did. But I'm just saying, you know. If I never understood a different culture, you know, I
would've like -- I don't know had no good say in it. I don't know.
>> Right.
>> I'm just trying to think of, yeah.
>> So, you are -- there's only 6% of the world that has a BA; right.
>> Oh, wow!
>> In the entire world there's only 6% ->> Wow! Yeah.
>> Globally. So, you are rare [inaudible] around the globe.
>> That's amazing.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I keep thinking like -- because I know so many people who graduate and so. So many who doesn't either, so.
>> 94% don't graduate.
>> Yeah, wow! Yeah.
>> So, you're the [inaudible] of the globe.
>> That's amazing.
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>> But within the Hmong community, you are also very rare. So, is there anything specifically that you can say to
women and also males in the ethic community to stay in school and to graduate? Who maybe have cultural issues or -- I
know, whatever [inaudible]?
>> Yeah, like you said ->> [Inaudible] questions.
>> Yeah. No, that's one thing I see too. A lot of them are not. And you can't just force them, you know, like if they're
not verbal. They're shy. They're quiet. But just, you know, for me it's just, I saw like education is power. You know,
they think money is power. But I thought that just having more knowledge, more education, more perspective in life in
general was powerful to me. And that's why I took that outlet and I serve the community. I gave back to the community.
I use that to not just for myself, not to be selfish, but to be more giving and just using education to spread that word to -I don't know.
>> You're a rare BA. Does that automatically make a leader in the community? Because so majority don't have -- does
the community members just see you in a higher level because you have a degree? I mean that ->> Well, in my community that I know, the people that I know, the people that I know -- I know a lot of people who
have degrees. And so, I'm one of the -- I guess you could say I fit in with all my friends and family and all that. And so,
it's also pursuing higher education because I notice that a lot of my friends and people who have their BA already they
want to go higher. And they're always asking my sister. They see that my older sister lived in a nice house. They're like:
you know what, I want to do what you want to do, because they see that she's successful. And so, they just want to have
that success story. And for me, I just want to be content. I just, you know, I want higher education because I just want to
learn more. For me, I love learning. It's just I never did well in test taking and all of that. But I just love learning. I think
it's powerful just to know more information.
>> Definitely.
>> Yeah. That was just my take. I just always wanted to learn. But, yeah. Other people they use that as: oh, I just want
to have more money. So maybe I have this type of degree, I'll get more money. That's what I saw in the community I
grew up with. Just seeing. Yeah.
>> Okay. I guess that's it. Let me turn this off. And thank you.
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Asian archive that we will deposit at Fresno State so future generations can hear your story.
>> Okay.
>> Can you say your name and give me verbal permission to record you.
>> Yes. I'm Debbie Xiong. Allow.
>> Okay, thank you. Okay. What is your gender?
>> Female.
>> What is your date -- your birth year?
>> 1985.
>> What is your ethnic group and where were you born?
>> I'm Hmong American. I was born in Minnesota St. Paul.
>> What was your undergraduate major?
>> Public health and the health administration.
>> What is your generation [inaudible]?
>> I am the first generation. Yeah.
>> What is your mother and father's highest education?
>> My father received his, actually, certification in electronics. Yeah.
>> Okay. What about your mother?
>> No. No, high -- no degree at -- no education at all.
>> What was your family composition? Brothers and sisters, I mean.
>> I have five brothers and four sisters.
>> Okay, and mom and dad. And what was your GPA?
>> At Fresno State it was a 2.8. Yeah.
>> What's your ultimate degree aspiration?
>> Well, I would love to continue going on with my Masters. You know.
>> Okay. In what?
>> At this point right now, I am still undecided. But I would like to continue higher education.
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>> Oh.
>> Yeah.
>> We do have a new EDD now at Fresno State online with Channel Islands and EDD actually; Education doctorate.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Just tell you.
>> Okay yeah.
>> Growing up in your family background -- not now. But your family background. When you were growing up, do
you come from a working-class, middle, or affluent background? Which environment?
>> Working.
>> Working? Okay. Was your high school public or private?
>> It's public.
>> And what high school was that?
>> Fresno High School but I graduated at a continuation school. J.E. Young high school.
>> Okay. In your either school what was the ratio in ethnic demographics? Like what is it Hispanic? Is it --?
>> It's Hispanic and Asian.
>> Was it -- What percentage? If you could guess?
>> I would say Hispanic it was the most in Fresno.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Why do Hmong go to college? Why do they go? And why do they not go?
>> I think because parents in the Asian -- especially in the Hmong community -- parents make it very known to have
their kids pursue higher education.
>> In what ways?
>> They're constantly talking about it because you know they talk about their struggles. The fact that they didn't have an
education. So that we're here in the United States, we need to take advantage of that.
>> So, you were kind of push to, from a ->> Yes, every single -- every time. Yeah.
>> Oh, interesting. Do Hmong students have strong relationships with faculty and administrators?
>> I think some. It really depends because I have sisters who were very, very shy. And then me on the other hand, I was
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extremely outspoken. So, I mean, it just really depends.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> What is your favorite subject? What's your least favorite subject?
>> Math is my -- I can't deal with math.
>> Okay.
>> But I love science.
>> That's a stereotype.
>> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. But I love science.
>> Oh. Great. Okay. Have you ever been mentored? Has anyone given you advice?
>> Yeah, I guess I have. Yeah.
>> In college or high school?
>> I would say high school, middle school.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Has any teacher given you -- what is actually the teacher expectations of you in high school and in college? Were
they neutral? Were they high? Were they low?
>> Yeah. You'll see every teacher's different. And so, I've experienced both good and bad.
>> Okay.
>> So, yeah, both, yeah.
>> How did your teachers treat your other -- let's say in this case, Southeast Asian co-ethnics in college also in high
school? Was it -- or was it just neutral treatment? High, low, neutral?
>> You do notice some favoritism; you know? You do notice it. But ->> Was it towards Southeast Asians or not towards Southeast Asians?
>> Most likely not.
>> And then were your teachers Asian at all?
>> I had probably quite a -- probably two Asian Hmong teachers.
>> Oh, okay.
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>> I think maybe. Yeah. Well, in the Hmong club I had -- I took Hmong class ->> Oh, great! Okay.
>> Yeah. So ->> Okay. Awesome.
>> Yeah. At high school.
>> Did you take -- do you have the Hmong minor?
>> The what?
>> The Hmong minor?
>> What do you mean?
>> There's a -- she -- Dr. Yang created a Hmong minor now.
>> No.
>> You take like -- you get the minor.
>> Oh, no. I never took that. No.
>> So, do you remember any notable media depictions of your ethnic group? Hmong movies? A Hmong in the movie?
>> No, yeah. I've always watched Hmong movies growing up too. My dad and them we always had Hmong movies. But
not like -- it's just Hmong movies. It's not like, you know, big time -- I don't know. I don't think there's any Hmong
superstar that I really know.
>> Singers, dancers?
>> Well, I -- my sister-in-law she's into it a little bit. She's in a couple of Hmong movies and she sings and she knows
quite a few ->> Oh, wow!
>> People that does that stuff.
>> So, is it set in Fresno or --?
>> Well, I don't even know how to explain it. Well, you know, because you know the Hmong community, there's not
that many -- we don't have that type of like -- you know how they have the Spanish channel? They even have a Laos and
Thai channel. Stuff like that.
>> Really?
>> Yeah, they do. But it's kind of like in these different channels.
>> Oh, okay.
>> I mean, my cousin -- I have cousins personally that were in the Hmong channel -- in Channel 18 here in Fresno but
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then they had a little show. But, yeah. I mean.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> Yeah, at my blood cousin. My dad's brother's son. So, yeah.
>> Okay. All right. So, this is an optional section. And so, you can skip it. You don't have to answer any of this. So
then, did you have any barriers to your education success such as like working or children?
>> Oh, yeah.
>> I don't know. Culture, gender, blah, blah.
>> No, I had.
>> Any barriers?
>> Yes, children. I had -- I was pregnant at 17. And so, I gave birth at 18. So that's one of the reasons. I was at Fresno
High School and I got pregnant at 17, so I had to go to a continuation school. And I didn't even think I was going to go
to college. College was out of my mind. My main focus was on my daughter. And as I mentioned to you before, I
struggled in grade school and, you know, high school. I never did well in school. It was always a challenge for me. So, I
didn't think I could even succeed in college because I had such a hard time in high school. So, yeah.
>> But what made you go to college? That's incredible.
>> No, yeah. When I was working for Fresno Unified and I just a teacher's aide. And so, one of the teachers there, she
inspired me. She said that: you know, you should go to college and just go to the community college and just take a
couple classes and, you know, you'll get paid more. And she's like: you know, you have a daughter now. You need to
think about her future and, you know. With me -- with my parents; they tell you all the time "go to college, go to
college," but they never really ->> They told you that?
>> Yeah. My parents always told -- like my dad always wanted me to be a nurse. You know how the parents, they
always want you to be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, something like that. And so, the thing is that they never really showed me
how. They just talked. And that -- there was no support there. My older sister she was very smart in ways of the "how"
to do, "what" to do; you know? So, everything came easily for her to go to college. But for me, it was really hard. I
didn't, you know -- I didn't have -- you know, even though I joined in all these clubs. I volunteered a lot in high school. I
really didn't understand what college was really about. I never understood at all.
>> Did you sister go to college before you?
>> My older sister; yeah.
>> Did she go to Fresno State?
>> Yeah. She graduated -- I have four sisters. I mean, four other sisters. Three of them all graduated from State.
>> What's the order? I mean [inaudible]
>> My older sister, first. And then my younger sister. The one after me and then the one after her. And so, then I'm the
fourth one that graduated.
>> That's an incredible family!
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>> Yeah.
>> That's a very rare family. Four?
>> And it's only the daughters that graduate. None of the brothers have.
>> You're kidding me?
>> Yeah. So, that's, you know, my dad always says, "You know, my daughters are always the successful ones. My sons
are, you know, I always had problems with them." My dad always stress about that.
>> Why? Can you speak about that? Why? I mean you had a lot of barriers. But why did daughters go through ->> I think it's because ->> [Inaudible] with typically in the statistics.
>> Yeah. That's -- you're right. I mean, my brothers: all of them, just discouraged. Mainly lazy. My little brother right
now, he's going to college. But he's very lazy. All the -- you know, what my dad would say, "All they do is they're into
games." Video games, internet, just computer. And so, my other brother, he was in the Army. So you know, he's just
focused on that family. So yeah. I mean, the brothers. I don't' understand why. It's just ->> Do you think you would have a bigger barrier if you're a male? Or do you think that you have more support you're a
woman or?
>> I think for us, we just strive for that. Just because, you know, growing up you see the men being always the powerful
one. You know? Make -- being the breadwinner. And we here, the female, I think we just wanted -- we wanted that
respect. And so, we're thinking, we go to college ->> Interesting.
>> And having that type of education, higher education, will make us smarter and make us, you know, be I guess more
respected. Because for my dad, you know, in the Hmong community, all they think about: "Did you child graduate?
What did they graduate?" The parents -- the old ->> There's a lot of community pressure.
>> Yeah. Yes, yes. All the parents. Like all the parents say, "Oh, so how may daughters do you have? Are they married?
Are they -- do they go to school? What kind of job?" They just want to know, you know, what level your child's success
stories. That's all they care about.
>> Wow!
>> And so, yeah. My ->> Did you feel this pressure to go to college?
>> Of course. I mean it was. It was because every time, every year we'll have a reunion. And during the reunion, all they
talk about is college, college, college. And they pressure even my child. And that's my mistake -- my fault too because
right now, I'm leading that same example. I'm pressuring my kids all the time; college, college, college.
>> Is it -- It's the pressure from the men or the elders?
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>> Elders.
>> Is it elder men and elder women or both genders?
>> It's the majority of the men whose always talking about -- the elder men who are always saying -- and the mothers
and the elder women too. So, it's both I see.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. They're always -- especially in the Hmong community that's so big. Because in the Laotian -- my husband's
side -- they don't really talk about it that much. I don't see that being such an issue because I don't see a lot of them.
>> They're not as successful ->> No.
>> Educationally.
>> Yeah.
>> Then the Hmong [Inaudible] right now.
>> Yeah. So, in the Hmong. Yeah, yeah. Sure is. I guess. So that's what I've seen so far. Yeah.
>> Okay, interesting. So, you had kind of cultural, family pressure.
>> Yeah.
>> And then community pressure and then your sisters going.
>> Yeah.
>> Did that inspire you to go to college?
>> Yeah, definitely. Because, you know, my older sister got it first and then my younger sister got and then my other
younger sister got it. And so, I was still -- for me, I had four kids. And so, struggling to go to school, work part-time,
watch my kids, even watch my sister's kids. I mean, we were just -- it was.
>> So, tell us how you did it? Because other moms would be listening to this.
>> Yeah. I know.
>> And they'll say the same thing.
>> Yeah.
>> I have two kids.
>> It's discouraging. Yeah.
>> How -- I mean, what can you say to the moms to inspire them to kind of ->> For me, I mean, it was really hard because like, you know, the thing about it is like, you know, they -- you know,
you -- I never found excuses to not go to school, college even if it was taking online classes, night classes. I always
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found some way to take classes every semester. There's only one semester -- I've been going to college for 10 years;
Fresno City College of Fresno State. And out of that 10 years, I only took one semester off ->> Wow, that's great.
>> Out of those 10 years. And I was either part-time, full-time. You know, but I was always focused on going to
college.
>> How did you -- I mean, I guess any tips to organization of how to? Because how did you do it?
>> I know. No, I was very active in the community actually.
>> Okay.
>> While going to college, I was into -- I always joined clubs. Even the community. I was -- I'm also an
environmentalist. And so ->> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah. I do a lot of -- just a lot of things. Even with church too, I'm the sabbath school director for my church. And
so, I'm just ->> Oh, wow!
>> I was out there just doing things. Keeping myself busy. So, I think when you keep yourself busy, you -- I don't know.
For me, I guess ->> How did you do homework and all the other stuff?
>> You know the thing -- that's why I -- that's what I said too. I don't remember.
>> It's amazing.
>> I don't even really know how I graduated. You know, four kids. I never really got to study that much. I was just -- I
think you could say I was fortunate enough that the teachers were -- I guess you could say some of the them were very
lenient. And so, I think that's probably one of the mistakes that teachers do. They become too lenient. And that made me
slide with how I got a good grade sometimes. The majority of the time I'll get Cs and Bs and I'll have to work sometime
to get that A. But, yeah, I don't even know either.
>> That's incredible actually.
>> Yeah.
>> And this is -- actually this might not apply to you. But this might apply to more -- this is originally for AfricanAmerican [inaudible]. But did you feel like there was any kind of assumption of inferiority based on race or class or
gender? I mean, is there -- do you think that there's a perception that, oh -- this is originally for African-Americans -like: oh, African-Americans ->> Yeah
>> Are not good at school. Or do you think there is ->> No.
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>> Is there a stereotype helping you?
>> No.
>> Or detracting you or ->> Well, because in class I'm very verbal. And people think that I'm smart. And so, they'll try to, you know -- No. I
mean, if anything, more people would ask me more questions. And so, thinking that Asians ->> Do you ask a lot of questions?
>> No. Yeah. I ask a lot of questions too. But I was also the student who the teacher would know because I was always
talking. When the teacher would ask a question, I would raise my hand and answer. I was always verbal. And so -- in
class. And so other students, you know, would notice that and would, like, ask me questions and so. I was never -- I'm
not a good test taker. I'm just very visual. I guess you can say I'm a visual person. I don't know.
>> So, that's actually excellent that you ask questions because we are behind that ->> Yeah. No, not a lot.
>> Not asking questions and ->> Yeah. In class, you notice. Yeah.
>> And that's not good.
>> Yeah. When I'm in class, I noticed a lot of other Asians do not talk at all.
>> That is correct.
>> They don't even associate. Don't even eye contact or anything while I'm over here raising my hand talking and ->> Wow!
>> Just being very verbal. So, they notice me too. Because in class, I don't notice them because they're so quiet. But
outside, they're like: "Hey" -- they'll come ask me a question. I'm like, "I don't even know who you are." She's like, "Oh,
you're in my class." I'm like, "Oh." You know, so. I wouldn't even know -- because they notice me because I talk a lot in
class.
>> So you're kind of like -- kind of a leader already during classes. Because [inaudible] for the Asians who don't talk.
>> Yeah. I guess you can say that.
>> Amazing. Okay. Do you think there's anything I didn't ask you about barriers? If not, we're going to go to the
success.
>> No, I think I explained. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, Ms. Debbie, you know, you are -- as I tell everyone, a rare bird; right? Like a unicorn. Why -what about your personality that, you know, you said you had a child [inaudible] four kids. Why did you make it, when
the majority -- the vast majority, do not make it? What is it -- is this your personality you had since fourth grade? Why?
>> No. As I mentioned, it was all for my kids. I wanted something better [inaudible].
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>> Okay.
>> I think every mother story -- success story is also about trying to better themselves for their kids could see it.
Because if you fail in college, then your kid is going to. You know, might fail and say, "Well, you didn't go to college."
I didn't want to be that parent where, you know: go to college, go to college. And the kid's going, "Well, you didn't go to
college. Why do I have to go to college?"
>> Good point.
>> Yeah. So, I wanted to be that example. So that's why I ->> And they saw you study.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean ->> They see me struggle.
>> You've already showed them.
>> Yeah. I've always tried to, you know, set examples for them like that. So that was one of the ones. Yeah, one of
them.
>> That's great. Before your kids, we're you like this in third grade, fifth grade? High school?
>> In high school I was already -- I volunteered a lot. I was already since middle school and elementary. I had great
teachers actually in elementary who kind of opened my eyes to volunteering and opened my eyes to science -- the love
for science and education. So, you'll get one teacher; hopefully. Because I think going to school, hopefully, you'll meet a
teacher that's going to inspire you. I think that's the only way -- the only reason why I got inspired. Because, as I said,
my parents they'll tell you: go to college, go to college. But they don't show you. And so, the teachers here, they actually
show you. They give you. They inspire you. And so, I had people who inspired me. And so, I think that's, you know -- I
still think back about them, you know, the reason why I'm where I'm at because, you know, I've learned from them.
>> And it's like by people listening to your story, you also will inspire the next generation.
>> Yeah. Hopefully.
>> Great, okay. Thinking back, you said you're not a Hmong B-boy.
>> No.
>> Or girl. Did you have any cultural bridges that helped you? I mean you weren't a B-boy, but was there any like -- is
there a cultural club that you were part of that helped you? I mean, what kept you going when of course, you know,
there are many instances that you could've quit. Like did you have financial help ->> I think ->> Structural help, gender help, educational-cultural help? I mean, bridges; I guess.
>> No. I mean. I guess. The only things that you see other people success stories
>> Really?
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>> And you want to you -- you don't want to feel alone.
>> How did you see them?
>> Well, just the fact that you know growing up you'll see your cousins and, you know, a nice house, a nice car. And
you're like, "Oh, you know, how do I get there?" And then you'll notice that: well they've gone to college. You know,
you hear that all the time too: college, college, college. And so that, kind of, stick in your head. And it's like: okay, you
know, I'm going to have to go to try to ->> Right.
>> But you don't understand. Like I didn't understand the amount of knowledge I was going to gain from it. I didn't -the experience of college. It wasn't just going to college. I gained much more than that. The respect of, you know,
diversity and all that stuff. You learn so much about just the education and getting a job. Because for me now, it's not -it's not about that getting the job. It's just -- it's all about, you know, being happy, being content, just having more
knowledge, making you aware -- self-awareness and all of that.
>> Definitely.
>> And so, you know.
>> So, speaking for your sisters, do you think that it changed them too; college?
>> Well ->> What push them? Was it the same cultural, family that pushed them?
>> I think that everyone's different. But for my older sister, she was -- I would say she was a success story. She also had
a child but she was already going to college when she got pregnant. But she's the type that she finished her college
degree, she got a job, bought a house, bought cars, and building a family. So, she was that success story; however, my
younger sister she did the right things. However, she's still stuck at the bottom where right now she's not even working.
She has a -- she graduated. She tried to get a job, random job here and there. And she got pregnant and then moved out
of state. Tried to open a business. A restaurant business. And now has just fallen in between. The college degree she got
wasn't meant for her -- social work. She can't deal with pressure and the stress of being a social worker. And so, right
now, she's shifting gears trying to be a yoga instructor. Just shifting gear. But still right now she's jobless and so, that's
the hard part for her. So, she didn't -- she wasn't the success story.
>> But still getting her degree is ->> Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
>> Very rare.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Is very rare.
>> Definitely, yeah, yeah.
>> But then my younger sister right now was -- you know she got her degree. And then just working random job here
and there. And then luckily, she just got accepted to get her Masters in nursing. And she'll become a PA, physician
assistant.
>> You're kidding?
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>> Yes. And so, she's in the process. That why I was in LA. I was in LA. We were looking for her apartment.
>> That's great. That's great.
>> She one of the -- she'll be the first one to get her Masters in our family and the first generation.
>> [Inaudible] It's hard to get a PA.
>> Yeah, yeah. A PA.
>> So hard.
>> So that's why we're so proud of her. She's going to be the. Yeah. I know. She's going to be the success story in our
family. Where my dad -- because you know in Hmong community family they're always about, you know: do you have
a doctor in family? Do you have a lawyer in the family? That's all they talk about.
>> A PA is better than a doctor.
>> Yeah. I know. No.
>> There's no [inaudible].
>> Yeah, yeah. It's hard. So yeah, that's why my sister will be this -- you know, the success story in our family. So,
that's -- I don't know how I got to this [inaudible].
>> Yeah, but no, no. But thank you. Also, that's very inspiring.
>> Yeah.
>> So, so actually this part I just asked you: what do you want? Smaller class makes a difference or no difference?
>> It's just more personal a smaller class. But, yeah. I mean. I think, yeah. Just taking both classes. A big class and a
smaller class ->> No difference?
>> I don't think there's difference. Yeah.
>> Okay. What about co-ethnic professors. Do you want all Hmong professors?
>> No. I just want a good professor because you get so many professors who don't care; you know? Who you could tell
they just do their job and that's it. They don't even. Not inspiring, not trying to push you to get, you know, to -- I don't
know. It's just different difference on the ->> What about co-ethnic classmates? [Inaudible] 70% Asian college ->> For me, I really didn't -- it didn't matter to me at all.
>> Okay. What about ethnic clubs? Hmong sorority?
>> Yeah. I did -- I unfortunately didn't join that in college. I was in the breast-feeding college and club up in State. I was
in the Sustainability Project --
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>> You can paint?
>> Yeah, at State. And those two clubs I kind of were in the beginning of that start of the club.
>> [Inaudible] breastfeeding club at Fresno State?
>> Yeah.
>> What is that club? [inaudible]
>> It's allowing parents, breastfeeding mothers, students to have the support system. Because when I went to Fresno
State in 2012, I had to look all around to see if there's a breast pumping station. There was none. And so that was one of
my barriers too. Where am I going to breast pump? You know?
>> Right.
>> And while searching for the it, we finally built this club up. And so, it's been going on -- now we have breast
pumping stations at Fresno State.
>> That's great!
>> Because -- yeah. And so, I was kind of a part of. You know? A part of that the club when it started because in 2012
there was none. Now they have it.
>> So, tell me more. What can we do to make Fresno State warmer for mothers?
>> Warmer for mothers?
>> What can we do?
>> We -- with the club, we actually go out there with fake boobs. And you know see what students' reaction were. A lot
of students still -- you know, you still see that -- what's that word for it? Still grossed out by it. Like, "Eww, why are you
guys having, you know, boobs out in public?" And so, people are still not letting us breast-feeding mothers -- I guess, I
don't know -- express that. I don't know.
>> Okay
>> So it's still out there. It's still -- I guess you could say, it's still not wanted. It's still not ->> Would you want a mothers' club on campus or?
>> Well, we have a breastfeeding club so ->> Okay. Is there a fathers' club? Because what about the men?
>> Oh, I don't know.
>> The fathers.
>> Yeah, we support men to be in it too. We had a male in there.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know if he's still in there. But, yeah. We encourage even -- we've encouraged fathers to join the club and to be
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open to this. Because, you know, there's quite a few, you know, breast-feeding mothers that -- it's either staff or is a
student there.
>> Great.
>> So, yeah.
>> You made a huge impact -- You changed Fresno State [inaudible].
>> We did. The club did. Yeah, the club. I'm proud of the club. Yeah.
>> Excellent.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you think I didn't ask you any questions about bridges I could have asked you? Any other bridges?
>> I think that's [inaudible] Yeah, that's good.
>> So, in probably six years, seven years the third-generation will be coming in.
>> Yeah.
>> And they'll have struggles similar to yours; dissimilar but similar. Do you have any advice for the third and fourth
generation that are coming through to Fresno State? But not just Fresno State, but in college in general in the globe?
>> Yeah. I think ->> What advice do you have to them that's, keep staying and finish. Why is in college, in good?
>> Yeah. I mean, I think a lot for some students it might be intimidating because they don't have their support group. I
know that for me coming in, I was always afraid of -- like for me, I mentioned many times I struggled in school. And so,
I felt that: I'm going to struggle in college even more. Because, you know, just filling out the application, having all the
necessary paperwork. I've always -- even with my financial aid, I've always struggled: I'm missing a paper or I'm
missing -- and that would just like: if you're missing a paper and they make it -- Put it this way; they kind of make it
hard for you to get. Even though it's not hard. You just need to provide all the information. People like just be tired of it.
You know what? I don't want to find the paper for what's needed.
>> Is it financially aid or ->> Financially aid too was hard for me. Like I kept missing a paper, you know, just having to ->> Do you want a workshop on that? Do you -- I mean ->> They provide all of that. I guess for me, I just -- you know the videos. They do a lot of help resource -- there's a lot
of resources out there. It's just overwhelming because there's so much information and so much resources that you kind
of don't know where to start. It's really, really stressful I think. But I mean, you know I -- me myself go to these types of
training classes to be aware of it. But I think some students are just -- they just -- they don't try. They just going to give
up. And say: you know, that's just too much stuff. Too much information. That's one thing I noticed about some of my
friends who didn't want to pursue college anymore. Because it's just too much work. They find excuses. There's excuses
for everything. For the not to succeed. And so, they did not want to go that extra mile. They never tried to go the extra
mile. And for me; even though I don't think I give it my all, I try at least. That's how I -- yeah.
>> You are the rare [inaudible].
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>> Yeah, yeah. So, I was actually 10 years it took me. Over 10 years to finally get.
>> But it's worth it because you the [inaudible].
>> Yeah. Definitely worth it. Yeah, yeah. I'm proud of it.
>> You should be.
>> Yeah.
>> So is there the positive -- if you could end with: what are the positive things you've gotten from graduating? Like,
you talk -- [inaudible].
>> As I mentioned ->> It's not in the school, but it seems like ->> No, yeah. Like I said, like, when I -- my own first impression was just going to college and getting that degree and
hopefully working. But, you know like I said, I gained so much knowledge, so much perspective in life. Because you
learn about -- like I mentioned, diversity. You learn about other culture. You learn so much because of the classes they
make you take. You know. Just classes you take too. The general classes that you have to take. It opens your eyes to not
be so, I guess, judgmental. I don't know. Like it just makes you more self-aware of life in general. Because if I didn't
take any of these classes, I wouldn't have known. I would still be, you know -- I don't know, probably disrespecting
another. I don't know. I never did. But I'm just saying, you know. If I never understood a different culture, you know, I
would've like -- I don't know had no good say in it. I don't know.
>> Right.
>> I'm just trying to think of, yeah.
>> So, you are -- there's only 6% of the world that has a BA; right.
>> Oh, wow!
>> In the entire world there's only 6% ->> Wow! Yeah.
>> Globally. So, you are rare [inaudible] around the globe.
>> That's amazing.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I keep thinking like -- because I know so many people who graduate and so. So many who doesn't either, so.
>> 94% don't graduate.
>> Yeah, wow! Yeah.
>> So, you're the [inaudible] of the globe.
>> That's amazing.
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>> But within the Hmong community, you are also very rare. So, is there anything specifically that you can say to
women and also males in the ethic community to stay in school and to graduate? Who maybe have cultural issues or -- I
know, whatever [inaudible]?
>> Yeah, like you said ->> [Inaudible] questions.
>> Yeah. No, that's one thing I see too. A lot of them are not. And you can't just force them, you know, like if they're
not verbal. They're shy. They're quiet. But just, you know, for me it's just, I saw like education is power. You know,
they think money is power. But I thought that just having more knowledge, more education, more perspective in life in
general was powerful to me. And that's why I took that outlet and I serve the community. I gave back to the community.
I use that to not just for myself, not to be selfish, but to be more giving and just using education to spread that word to -I don't know.
>> You're a rare BA. Does that automatically make a leader in the community? Because so majority don't have -- does
the community members just see you in a higher level because you have a degree? I mean that ->> Well, in my community that I know, the people that I know, the people that I know -- I know a lot of people who
have degrees. And so, I'm one of the -- I guess you could say I fit in with all my friends and family and all that. And so,
it's also pursuing higher education because I notice that a lot of my friends and people who have their BA already they
want to go higher. And they're always asking my sister. They see that my older sister lived in a nice house. They're like:
you know what, I want to do what you want to do, because they see that she's successful. And so, they just want to have
that success story. And for me, I just want to be content. I just, you know, I want higher education because I just want to
learn more. For me, I love learning. It's just I never did well in test taking and all of that. But I just love learning. I think
it's powerful just to know more information.
>> Definitely.
>> Yeah. That was just my take. I just always wanted to learn. But, yeah. Other people they use that as: oh, I just want
to have more money. So maybe I have this type of degree, I'll get more money. That's what I saw in the community I
grew up with. Just seeing. Yeah.
>> Okay. I guess that's it. Let me turn this off. And thank you.
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