Tchay Herr interview
Item
Title
Tchay Herr interview
Creator
Herr, Tchay
Banh, Jenny
Relation
Central Valley Southeast Asian Successful Voices
Coverage
Fresno, California
Date
2017
Rights
Copyright has been transferred to Fresno State
Identifier
SCMS_casv_00004
extracted text
>> Okay, hello, welcome. I'd like to thank you so much for consenting to be interviewed for the Festival Southeast
Asian Archive at Fresno State. If you could tell me your name, and can you spell it, and give me verbal permission to
interview you to be deposited into a successful Southeast Asian Archive.
>> Okay. My name is Tchay Her, and that is spelled T-C-H-A-Y, last name is H-E-R. So it's T-H-A -- okay, excellent.
And can you give me verbal permission to interview you?
>> Yes; I give you permission to interview me.
>> Great. What is your gender?
>> Female.
>> What is -- don't tell me the date, actually, but just the year; what is your year of birth?
>> The year?
>> Yes; or you can pass. [Laughs]
>> Oh, '87.
>> Okay. What is your ethnic group, and the place that you were born?
>> My ethnic group is Hmong, and I was born in Fresno, California.
>> Excellent. What was your undergraduate major?
>> Psychology.
>> What was your generation in the United States? For example, if you were born in a different country and you came
here, you would be first generation. But if you were born here and you would be second generation.
>> I was born here, but I am first generation.
>> Oh, okay. Was your family also born in other places, or ->> My older siblings were actually born in Highland, but my parents they didn't get any schooling. My older siblings,
just a few of them finished college, not all.
>> Okay. I think if you were born here, you would be considered second generation.
>> Oh.
>> That's how they do it; I don't know why. [Laughs]
>> Okay.
>> So what is your mother and father's highest education?
>> My dad did not get any schooling, so no education.
>> Yes.
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>> My mom had some schooling, but I want to say it was probably only up to elementary level.
>> Okay.
>> Maybe middle school, but for sure not high school.
>> What is your family composition; such as, what is your brother -- I mean, do you have brothers and sisters?
>> I do. So like how many siblings I have?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So there is -- I have five brothers and six sisters, so there's a total of 12 kids in my family.
>> Wow. What high school -- was it a private high school or was it a public high school, what high school was it that
you went to?
>> I went to Clovis High School.
>> Oh, was it Clovis, West, East, North?
>> Just Clovis High.
>> Oh, wow, okay. What was the racial and ethnic demographics of that school? > Majority was white. [Laughs]
>> Oh, interesting. Why do Hmongs go to college; why do they not?
>> Do the Hmong people, or ->> Yes; why do they go to college, like what is the reasoning? And why do they not go?
>> Well, for me, what my parents taught is, you know, you go to college to have a future, get a better job, to be
successful or have money, well, to provide for your children and the future.
>> Excellent. Why do they not go to college?
>> Family responsibilities, such as, you know, taking -- if they're married, they have to take care of their family, provide
for their kids, or maybe they have to take care of their mom and dads, their grandmas and grandpas.
>> Okay.
>> Most of time if -- Well back in my days, I mean, a lot of the Hmong families they had farmland, like they would go
farm land, so if they had land they had to take care of that.
>> Yes. Do Hmong students have strong relationships with administrators and faculty?
>> I have to say no. [Laughs]
>> Okay. What is your least favorite subject, and what's your favorite subject?
>> I would have to say my favorite would probably be -- I don't have one, but if I have to choose probably English ->> English, ah.
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>> Just because I love to write. [Laughs] But ->> Oh, interesting.
>> My least probably -- will of course be math. [Laughs]
>> Okay. [Laughs] What makes a good professor, what makes a bad professor for you to pass a class?
>> I think a good professor would be someone who can commence well with students [inaudible], you know, a rapport
with them, and they're always willing to help. They -- you know, they're doing like their office hours or lunch hours, just
availability, I guess.
>> Okay.
>> Bad, hmm. I guess everything the opposite of what I said to that. [Laughs]
>> Okay. [Laughs] Have you ever been mentored?
>> Yes, I guess I have.
>> Yes. In what way?
>> It wasn't like consistent, like I would have one maybe like -- I would have one one year and then I wouldn't have one
anymore, and then probably the next two years or something like that.
>> Okay, great. You said you're one of the few Asian students in -- you said Fresno High?
>> Clovis High.
>> Clovis High; for the very few Asian students at Clovis High, what was the ethnic expectation for your group by the
teacher, or was there any expectations for your group?
>> Well, I think, you know, at Clovis High, the expectation is probably, you know, where we're just good students,
we're not the troublemaker, that we're the quiet ones, that we're the ones who turn in homework. Academically, I don't
know, I mean, some of us did well, but some of us didn't. So I think, I don't know, we were probably in-between. But
behavior wise we were the ones who were seen as the good students, I guess.
>> Oh; and did you feel that Clovis High prepared you for college?
>> I think -- well do you mean [inaudible] the classes or -- like classes and counselors, or just ->> Everything.
>> Everything, okay. When I think back during my high school years, I would say yes just because I see my counselor a
lot, and she was really helpful. She tutors me [inaudible] the programs about the college that I wanted to go to. I actually
went to Clovis East a year and a half -- I kind of went to Clovis High my first year and a half, and then my second and
my last school that I was Clovis East. And of course, I went back to Clovis High. So it was kind of weird, but then I did
spend most of my time at Clovis High. But even at Clovis East, I was really fortunate to have a good counselor. And he
was the same way, he was always very helpful, and he [inaudible] programs I actually applied for, and he helped out
with my financial aid and everything. So ->> Excellent.
>> I was really fortunate to have two good counselors at two high schools.
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>> And then Clovis East, is that predominantly Asian?
>> Yes; that one is predominantly Asian, but I only went there for like a year. Like I said, the majority of my time was
at Clovis High, and that's where I graduated from.
>> Did you move away from that school because it was too Asian, or you thought that the schooling was good enough,
or ->> Well, we actually had to -- I actually to go to Clovis East because we moved to an apartment that was the boundary - you know, the school boundary with Clovis East, so we had to go there. It was just a school boundary thing; it wasn't
because -- if I had to choose I would have stayed at Clovis High because, you ,now, all my friends were there already.
But we couldn't get in because, you know, the school district lines -- boundaries, yes. So eventually my senior year, my
parents they -- we moved again because we moved out the apartment. They bought a house and so we went back to
Clovis High.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> So that's what happened.
>> So the first part of the interview is done, and now I'm going to ask you about the barriers. Looking back, did you -you are very successful in that you graduated. Did you graduate in four years, or six years, or 20 years?
>> Let's see. My journey was kind of different because I didn't go to college right away.
>> Yes.
>> I moved away to babysit, so I had kind of -- [inaudible] to Fresno State, and then moved to Stocking, and I didn't
start school there until maybe the spring semester, so I took the semester off. But if I was to count the years, I'd probably
-- let's see. I would say maybe four and a half.
>> Oh, my God, that's really fast. [Laughs] Goodness gracious. Okay. That's very fast. Okay. Thinking back at your
higher education success, do you think there were any barriers such as structural, gender, health, jobs, financial, cultural,
siblings? Do you encounter any barriers?
>> Oh, yes, of course. I think the biggest barriers for me was, of course, money, cultural, and family responsibilities.
Those were probably the main three things for me. You know, money because, I mean, of course, my parents they didn't
have money to give me, so I had to work and go to school to, you know, buy my books or my school supplies, or, you
know, gas [inaudible] to go to school. Culturally, you know, it was hard because I had to learn how to balance out, you
know -- because I was babysitting; of course I was babysitting and just taking care of [inaudible] -- taking, you know,
like m mom and dad to appointments or taking care of siblings, and yes. So those are the three main ones for me.
>> Did you have to take care of grandparents?
>> Let's see. So my grandma moved around a lot. I didn't actually get to take care of her mainly like in my grad school,
but my undergrad, no.
>> Okay.
>> She came later on.
>> What about the actual college itself, did you find Fresno state to be a warm environment, chilly, or neutral
environment?
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>> For me personally I actually enjoyed the community college better because I started off at a community college. I
actually liked that a lot better than Fresno State, just because I felt more welcome, and I felt there was more support
there than Fresno State. I mean, other than that ->> Sorry.
>> I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> No; I was going to say what support did you get at the community college that you didn't get at Fresno?
>> So I think it just falls back to the availability or, you know, the counselors just making time for me because I had -you know, I saw a regular general counselor and I was in EOP, so they always made time for me. When I was at Fresno
State, it was really hard to see like just a counselor. And I have an EOP counselor, but, you know, I just felt like I
always had to -- I don't know if it's because, I don't know, maybe my counselor [inaudible], or maybe I went in like bad
timing, but it was hard for me to see my counselor, I guess, at EOP for Fresno State than at that community level.
>> What does "EOP" stand for?
>> "Educational Opportunity Programs."
>> Okay. Did you take any -- I think we have our summer bridge program, did you ever take that?
>> I did not. I did work for them, but I did not because, again, I ended up moving my -- you know, my senior -- after I
graduated, I moved, so I missed out on all like the Dog Days of Summer Bridge. And I didn't go to school that whole
first semester. I missed out on all that; [laughs] I didn't do any of that.
>> In your high school, did you do the AVID [phonetic] Program and did you go [overlapping]?
>> No, I did not.
>> Hmm, interesting. Okay, great. Well, is there anything else, do you think, I didn't ask you about your barriers?
>> I think that's it.
>> Okay. So the last part of the interview, I ask about personal enablers, because you actually are quite rare in that, you
know, there's not that many Southeast Asian graduates in general, but it's rising every year, which is great. So what
about you that made you -- like what is it -- why did you make it when some other people didn't make it? Like how did - you must have had difficulties which you talked about, but why did you make it?
>> Well, I think because, you know, growing up for me, I always felt that my family were like very poor. I mean, like to
me like dirt poor, [laughs] because we grew up, you know, government assistance, like welfare and food stamps. And I
mean, we have a lot of kids in the family. And so it was a struggle for my parents to get by, I mean, to buy us school
supplies, or new clothes, or new shoes, or [inaudible]. So I realized, "You know, when I grow up, I don't want to be in
living kind of lifestyle. You know, I want to make sure that I can feed myself, or if I have kids or a family to feed them."
And so and not only that but my parents, they did instill in me and said, you know, "You need to go to school." And so I
-- you know, I was really determined to finish school. And I think it took a lot of -- I would say persistence. Like that's
why I never gave up too. I was really committed, determined, dedicated.
>> Wow.
>> Yes; I mean, I felt like I had to, you know, because if I didn't try then, you know, I wouldn't be around today.
>> Did --
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>> I mean, I was -- oh go ahead.
>> Oh, no; sorry, go ahead.
>> Well, I mean, I was like -- I don't know, I think in the beginning, it was really hard for me, but I am not someone
who quits easily so I think it kind of [inaudible] the person. You know, it really depends on who they are as a person,
how much confidence they have, or their self-esteem. I think that plays a big role to -- so I mean, yes I guess that's what
kind of, you know, motivated me was just my parents, their lifestyle, and I guess just who I am as a person, because I'm
just not the type to give up.
>> Looking back, we have a mom -- a B boy, our type as well [phonetic]; that's where -- that actually has just gone up at
Fresno State as well. And those mom B boys were saying that, you know, because they're a B boy, a break dancer, you
know, that's enabled them to get to college and get through college, these like cultural I guess dancing events. Do you
see anything in your personal life that growing up do you do any like cultural things or activities by your community
that like you think helped you in graduating?
>> I didn't do much of that, well, because my -- you know, me and my mom we actually go to church. I mean ->> Oh, okay.
>> So that's our religion. That's been -- I mean we all practice the cultural Shaman traditions ->> Oh, interesting.
>> And we go to church.
>> Yes.
>> So I feel like church actually played a big role in helping me get through school too. Not all of like the -- I guess the
cultural stuff, I don't know if the B boys -- because, I mean, I didn't Hmong dance. I mean, I wasn't [inaudible] in my
Hmong community; I did a lot of volunteer stuff. But ->> Oh.
>> I think Church had more to do with it ->> Okay.
>> Than my -- I guess my cultural background. I don't if that makes sense.
>> How did -- yes, can you elaborate? How did church kind of help you in education, I guess, or graduate? [Laughs]
>> Well, because I mean, we -- you know, at a young age from a time you're like -- when we were growing up in my
church, they'd tell us community service. You know, they'd teach us, you know, the -- not like career, but, you know,
they'd take us on little field trips. Because we would have like [inaudible] to be like Sunday School, and then Tuesdays
would be like activity days. And then the weekends would be volunteer. They would take us just to go see like -- kind of
girls [phonetic] field trips to expose us, you know, to like, "Oh, look, this is what you can do to grow up," just little
things like that. So I think, you know, church is -- probably that's one of the reasons why, you know, I guess, you know,
I wanted to keep trying, too.
>> And then at Fresno State, were you in the Hmong Club?
>> I was not. I was -- I did volunteer in my undergraduate when I transferred over to Fresno State for the Women's
Resource Center, but I think they changed it now; I think it's called something else.
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>> Cross Cultural Center?
>> Is that the Thomas Building [phonetic]?
>> Yes; I know what you're talking about. [Laughs]
>> Yes; so I was in that. And then -- I mean, I did a lot of stuff too. I was volunteering for the Big Sisters Club. I think a
lot of -- I think being involved in the community and at school also helped me to keep going. I think it's all about
exposure, you know, the more you get yourself out there, the more you have like more support, you know, positive
vibes. And so I think a lot of that helped out a lot.
>> Okay, great. And so the last part is I'm just going to ask you is this something you're interested and if this would -do you think, in your opinion, it would help more people graduate. Do you think if we had smaller classes, that will
helpful for people to graduate?
>> I would say yes and no ->> Yes. Because -- well -- well yes guess because, you know, maybe it's more intimate, and they might feel more
comfortable. No; because I feel like well, if, you know, they -- if they have a smaller classroom, students may not have
like the full potential to grow because, you know, they're still comfortable, and maybe they need to be exposed to, you
know, bigger classrooms, more people, I don't know. So I mean, I would -- I'm in-between. It might work, it might not,
so yes.
>> What about co-ethnic professors, did you want more Asian professors or specifically Hmong professors?
>> That one's another -- yes so maybe like for some classes, yes, they should have them, just because it's good for
students, you know, being Hmong to -- for me if I was a Hmong instructor like, "Hey, you know, they need it, or you
know, "I want to be like them," or you know, "If they can do it, I can do it," right?
>> Right
>> They may be able to -- you know, I've love to see students be like, "Yes, you know, if they can do it, I can do it."
And then no just because sometimes it's good to have different professors that are a different race.
>> Okay.
>> You know, so they can be more comfortable in speaking up, not just to a Hmong professor, right, they need to be
able to speak up to the professor whether they're white, or Mexican, or Black. So I'm in-between; but I think I'm
probably more towards yes just because just for that exposure they can see that, you know, "Hey, they look like me and
they made it."
>> What about classmates, would you want -- and for instance, UC Irvine is 70% Asian, and actually at Fresno State,
50% of the Asians are Hmong. So would you want more co-ethnic classmates, like all-Asian or -- [laughs]
>> Yes; see I don't know [inaudible] so I'm kind of in the middle again I guess in there. So yes just because, you know,
they see someone who looks like them or they can connect with someone who understands them, or comes from the
same background from them. So it would be easier for them to make friends with. And it's good to have friends in
college to kind of help support you along the way, right ->> Right.
>> During your academic journey, and then --
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>> Definitely.
>> Not just because, again, you know, that means they won't be exposed to other students, other cultures, and so I don't
know, [inaudible], so I'm kind of in the middle again.
>> Okay. You know, specifically, you talked about how you felt you had more access in your general college versus
Fresno State. If you had a million dollars, what college success workshops would you want at Fresno State that we can
provide you?
>> Let's see.
>> I mean, do you want a 24-hour -- I mean, or do you want like an always open counselor or something, or do you
want to -- like what do you think ->> Well, now that -- you know, [inaudible] I'm trying to think back, you know, another thing that -- sorry -- that kind of
-- you know, probably more support was support because I think at Delta City College, they had a computer lab. And
back when I went to Fresno State, they didn't have that many computers, and they didn't really have a lot of opportunity
to check out, versus at a community college, they have a huge like computer lab, and ->> Really.
>> Lots of computers desktops, yes, for students. And I think that was one thing that helped me too because I didn't
have a computer at that time and, you know. So that really helped out. And then when I came to Fresno State, they didn't
have a lot of that, so [inaudible] -- because I know community college, they do get funded more. But then -- I mean,
now at Fresno State they're starting to have computers and laptops, so I mean, I guess that's okay now. But so I'm trying
to think -- well, let's see. I feel like when I was a student, I felt like so many things, but now that, you know, I'm really
not there now it's kind of hard to think of what I would ->> Oh, no, that's -- you've given so much information; thank you. [Laughs]
>> Like I can't remember.
>> The last question is -- so we -- you I guess would be considered the second generation, and if we are telling like little
12-year-olds now, we have around six more years until third generation coming into Fresno State, and, you know, they
might listen to your story -- your success story, what advice can you give them to keep them in school and like kind of
show them the value of education to keep going and not drop out? [Laughs]
>> You know, I would tell them, you know, to not give up or to find a mentor. I mean, for me, I mean, like I said, I had
some [inaudible], but I feel like if they had a mentor that would provide additional support to help them keep going,
because sometimes, you know, they need an extra boost. Find a mentor, connect, network.
>> Network?
>> You know, get to know your professors.
>> Okay.
>> Be involved at school and in the community.
>> Be involved, okay.
>> And just, you know, about why you -- I guess, you know, why you even started to even go to college. You know,
there had to be a reason, and there's probably a goal, and just don't forget about it, you know, and -
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>> Yes. Great.
>> I feel like there's so much to say but I can't think of them now. [Laughter]
>> No; you've given so much, thank you. Do you have any advice to males who might be struggling to finish? Or
females who are struggling to finish in terms of like a gender?
>> Let's see. Well, I mean, [inaudible] there is a -- you know, there's more women than, you know, males going to
college.
>> Correct.
>> And I think for those males, I would say, you know, that we're here, you know, they don't have to be, you know, the
breadwinners all the time. You know, they can be something for themselves; because I kind of feel like a lot of times and then, you know, saying this in regards to the Hmong community, because they have so much responsibility that they
just have to work and bring in money.
>> Yes.
>> So I feel like, you know, it's a case for them to, you know, go to school and it's okay to have their wives, you know,
[inaudible]. I kind of feel like sometimes there's a stigma that, you know, if -- for in the Hmong culture, of course, you
know, that if women go and get their degrees that their wives are going to leave them, or that they're going to feel
ashamed or embarrassed. And I just want them to know that, you know, it's okay, that they get help, and I think they
should go to school and, you know, they can provide so much more then instead of just dropping out or just working.
And I feel like, you know, the men have as much potential as we women, we do. And so I just feel like, you know,
they're -- they just need I guess support, and from their families and friends, or whoever it may be. And I was thinking -or I would tell them to just keep going, I guess.
>> Great advice; that's excellent advice. Okay, great. And actually that concludes the interview. So I'm going to turn off
this recorder.
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Asian Archive at Fresno State. If you could tell me your name, and can you spell it, and give me verbal permission to
interview you to be deposited into a successful Southeast Asian Archive.
>> Okay. My name is Tchay Her, and that is spelled T-C-H-A-Y, last name is H-E-R. So it's T-H-A -- okay, excellent.
And can you give me verbal permission to interview you?
>> Yes; I give you permission to interview me.
>> Great. What is your gender?
>> Female.
>> What is -- don't tell me the date, actually, but just the year; what is your year of birth?
>> The year?
>> Yes; or you can pass. [Laughs]
>> Oh, '87.
>> Okay. What is your ethnic group, and the place that you were born?
>> My ethnic group is Hmong, and I was born in Fresno, California.
>> Excellent. What was your undergraduate major?
>> Psychology.
>> What was your generation in the United States? For example, if you were born in a different country and you came
here, you would be first generation. But if you were born here and you would be second generation.
>> I was born here, but I am first generation.
>> Oh, okay. Was your family also born in other places, or ->> My older siblings were actually born in Highland, but my parents they didn't get any schooling. My older siblings,
just a few of them finished college, not all.
>> Okay. I think if you were born here, you would be considered second generation.
>> Oh.
>> That's how they do it; I don't know why. [Laughs]
>> Okay.
>> So what is your mother and father's highest education?
>> My dad did not get any schooling, so no education.
>> Yes.
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>> My mom had some schooling, but I want to say it was probably only up to elementary level.
>> Okay.
>> Maybe middle school, but for sure not high school.
>> What is your family composition; such as, what is your brother -- I mean, do you have brothers and sisters?
>> I do. So like how many siblings I have?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So there is -- I have five brothers and six sisters, so there's a total of 12 kids in my family.
>> Wow. What high school -- was it a private high school or was it a public high school, what high school was it that
you went to?
>> I went to Clovis High School.
>> Oh, was it Clovis, West, East, North?
>> Just Clovis High.
>> Oh, wow, okay. What was the racial and ethnic demographics of that school? > Majority was white. [Laughs]
>> Oh, interesting. Why do Hmongs go to college; why do they not?
>> Do the Hmong people, or ->> Yes; why do they go to college, like what is the reasoning? And why do they not go?
>> Well, for me, what my parents taught is, you know, you go to college to have a future, get a better job, to be
successful or have money, well, to provide for your children and the future.
>> Excellent. Why do they not go to college?
>> Family responsibilities, such as, you know, taking -- if they're married, they have to take care of their family, provide
for their kids, or maybe they have to take care of their mom and dads, their grandmas and grandpas.
>> Okay.
>> Most of time if -- Well back in my days, I mean, a lot of the Hmong families they had farmland, like they would go
farm land, so if they had land they had to take care of that.
>> Yes. Do Hmong students have strong relationships with administrators and faculty?
>> I have to say no. [Laughs]
>> Okay. What is your least favorite subject, and what's your favorite subject?
>> I would have to say my favorite would probably be -- I don't have one, but if I have to choose probably English ->> English, ah.
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>> Just because I love to write. [Laughs] But ->> Oh, interesting.
>> My least probably -- will of course be math. [Laughs]
>> Okay. [Laughs] What makes a good professor, what makes a bad professor for you to pass a class?
>> I think a good professor would be someone who can commence well with students [inaudible], you know, a rapport
with them, and they're always willing to help. They -- you know, they're doing like their office hours or lunch hours, just
availability, I guess.
>> Okay.
>> Bad, hmm. I guess everything the opposite of what I said to that. [Laughs]
>> Okay. [Laughs] Have you ever been mentored?
>> Yes, I guess I have.
>> Yes. In what way?
>> It wasn't like consistent, like I would have one maybe like -- I would have one one year and then I wouldn't have one
anymore, and then probably the next two years or something like that.
>> Okay, great. You said you're one of the few Asian students in -- you said Fresno High?
>> Clovis High.
>> Clovis High; for the very few Asian students at Clovis High, what was the ethnic expectation for your group by the
teacher, or was there any expectations for your group?
>> Well, I think, you know, at Clovis High, the expectation is probably, you know, where we're just good students,
we're not the troublemaker, that we're the quiet ones, that we're the ones who turn in homework. Academically, I don't
know, I mean, some of us did well, but some of us didn't. So I think, I don't know, we were probably in-between. But
behavior wise we were the ones who were seen as the good students, I guess.
>> Oh; and did you feel that Clovis High prepared you for college?
>> I think -- well do you mean [inaudible] the classes or -- like classes and counselors, or just ->> Everything.
>> Everything, okay. When I think back during my high school years, I would say yes just because I see my counselor a
lot, and she was really helpful. She tutors me [inaudible] the programs about the college that I wanted to go to. I actually
went to Clovis East a year and a half -- I kind of went to Clovis High my first year and a half, and then my second and
my last school that I was Clovis East. And of course, I went back to Clovis High. So it was kind of weird, but then I did
spend most of my time at Clovis High. But even at Clovis East, I was really fortunate to have a good counselor. And he
was the same way, he was always very helpful, and he [inaudible] programs I actually applied for, and he helped out
with my financial aid and everything. So ->> Excellent.
>> I was really fortunate to have two good counselors at two high schools.
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>> And then Clovis East, is that predominantly Asian?
>> Yes; that one is predominantly Asian, but I only went there for like a year. Like I said, the majority of my time was
at Clovis High, and that's where I graduated from.
>> Did you move away from that school because it was too Asian, or you thought that the schooling was good enough,
or ->> Well, we actually had to -- I actually to go to Clovis East because we moved to an apartment that was the boundary - you know, the school boundary with Clovis East, so we had to go there. It was just a school boundary thing; it wasn't
because -- if I had to choose I would have stayed at Clovis High because, you ,now, all my friends were there already.
But we couldn't get in because, you know, the school district lines -- boundaries, yes. So eventually my senior year, my
parents they -- we moved again because we moved out the apartment. They bought a house and so we went back to
Clovis High.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> So that's what happened.
>> So the first part of the interview is done, and now I'm going to ask you about the barriers. Looking back, did you -you are very successful in that you graduated. Did you graduate in four years, or six years, or 20 years?
>> Let's see. My journey was kind of different because I didn't go to college right away.
>> Yes.
>> I moved away to babysit, so I had kind of -- [inaudible] to Fresno State, and then moved to Stocking, and I didn't
start school there until maybe the spring semester, so I took the semester off. But if I was to count the years, I'd probably
-- let's see. I would say maybe four and a half.
>> Oh, my God, that's really fast. [Laughs] Goodness gracious. Okay. That's very fast. Okay. Thinking back at your
higher education success, do you think there were any barriers such as structural, gender, health, jobs, financial, cultural,
siblings? Do you encounter any barriers?
>> Oh, yes, of course. I think the biggest barriers for me was, of course, money, cultural, and family responsibilities.
Those were probably the main three things for me. You know, money because, I mean, of course, my parents they didn't
have money to give me, so I had to work and go to school to, you know, buy my books or my school supplies, or, you
know, gas [inaudible] to go to school. Culturally, you know, it was hard because I had to learn how to balance out, you
know -- because I was babysitting; of course I was babysitting and just taking care of [inaudible] -- taking, you know,
like m mom and dad to appointments or taking care of siblings, and yes. So those are the three main ones for me.
>> Did you have to take care of grandparents?
>> Let's see. So my grandma moved around a lot. I didn't actually get to take care of her mainly like in my grad school,
but my undergrad, no.
>> Okay.
>> She came later on.
>> What about the actual college itself, did you find Fresno state to be a warm environment, chilly, or neutral
environment?
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>> For me personally I actually enjoyed the community college better because I started off at a community college. I
actually liked that a lot better than Fresno State, just because I felt more welcome, and I felt there was more support
there than Fresno State. I mean, other than that ->> Sorry.
>> I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> No; I was going to say what support did you get at the community college that you didn't get at Fresno?
>> So I think it just falls back to the availability or, you know, the counselors just making time for me because I had -you know, I saw a regular general counselor and I was in EOP, so they always made time for me. When I was at Fresno
State, it was really hard to see like just a counselor. And I have an EOP counselor, but, you know, I just felt like I
always had to -- I don't know if it's because, I don't know, maybe my counselor [inaudible], or maybe I went in like bad
timing, but it was hard for me to see my counselor, I guess, at EOP for Fresno State than at that community level.
>> What does "EOP" stand for?
>> "Educational Opportunity Programs."
>> Okay. Did you take any -- I think we have our summer bridge program, did you ever take that?
>> I did not. I did work for them, but I did not because, again, I ended up moving my -- you know, my senior -- after I
graduated, I moved, so I missed out on all like the Dog Days of Summer Bridge. And I didn't go to school that whole
first semester. I missed out on all that; [laughs] I didn't do any of that.
>> In your high school, did you do the AVID [phonetic] Program and did you go [overlapping]?
>> No, I did not.
>> Hmm, interesting. Okay, great. Well, is there anything else, do you think, I didn't ask you about your barriers?
>> I think that's it.
>> Okay. So the last part of the interview, I ask about personal enablers, because you actually are quite rare in that, you
know, there's not that many Southeast Asian graduates in general, but it's rising every year, which is great. So what
about you that made you -- like what is it -- why did you make it when some other people didn't make it? Like how did - you must have had difficulties which you talked about, but why did you make it?
>> Well, I think because, you know, growing up for me, I always felt that my family were like very poor. I mean, like to
me like dirt poor, [laughs] because we grew up, you know, government assistance, like welfare and food stamps. And I
mean, we have a lot of kids in the family. And so it was a struggle for my parents to get by, I mean, to buy us school
supplies, or new clothes, or new shoes, or [inaudible]. So I realized, "You know, when I grow up, I don't want to be in
living kind of lifestyle. You know, I want to make sure that I can feed myself, or if I have kids or a family to feed them."
And so and not only that but my parents, they did instill in me and said, you know, "You need to go to school." And so I
-- you know, I was really determined to finish school. And I think it took a lot of -- I would say persistence. Like that's
why I never gave up too. I was really committed, determined, dedicated.
>> Wow.
>> Yes; I mean, I felt like I had to, you know, because if I didn't try then, you know, I wouldn't be around today.
>> Did --
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>> I mean, I was -- oh go ahead.
>> Oh, no; sorry, go ahead.
>> Well, I mean, I was like -- I don't know, I think in the beginning, it was really hard for me, but I am not someone
who quits easily so I think it kind of [inaudible] the person. You know, it really depends on who they are as a person,
how much confidence they have, or their self-esteem. I think that plays a big role to -- so I mean, yes I guess that's what
kind of, you know, motivated me was just my parents, their lifestyle, and I guess just who I am as a person, because I'm
just not the type to give up.
>> Looking back, we have a mom -- a B boy, our type as well [phonetic]; that's where -- that actually has just gone up at
Fresno State as well. And those mom B boys were saying that, you know, because they're a B boy, a break dancer, you
know, that's enabled them to get to college and get through college, these like cultural I guess dancing events. Do you
see anything in your personal life that growing up do you do any like cultural things or activities by your community
that like you think helped you in graduating?
>> I didn't do much of that, well, because my -- you know, me and my mom we actually go to church. I mean ->> Oh, okay.
>> So that's our religion. That's been -- I mean we all practice the cultural Shaman traditions ->> Oh, interesting.
>> And we go to church.
>> Yes.
>> So I feel like church actually played a big role in helping me get through school too. Not all of like the -- I guess the
cultural stuff, I don't know if the B boys -- because, I mean, I didn't Hmong dance. I mean, I wasn't [inaudible] in my
Hmong community; I did a lot of volunteer stuff. But ->> Oh.
>> I think Church had more to do with it ->> Okay.
>> Than my -- I guess my cultural background. I don't if that makes sense.
>> How did -- yes, can you elaborate? How did church kind of help you in education, I guess, or graduate? [Laughs]
>> Well, because I mean, we -- you know, at a young age from a time you're like -- when we were growing up in my
church, they'd tell us community service. You know, they'd teach us, you know, the -- not like career, but, you know,
they'd take us on little field trips. Because we would have like [inaudible] to be like Sunday School, and then Tuesdays
would be like activity days. And then the weekends would be volunteer. They would take us just to go see like -- kind of
girls [phonetic] field trips to expose us, you know, to like, "Oh, look, this is what you can do to grow up," just little
things like that. So I think, you know, church is -- probably that's one of the reasons why, you know, I guess, you know,
I wanted to keep trying, too.
>> And then at Fresno State, were you in the Hmong Club?
>> I was not. I was -- I did volunteer in my undergraduate when I transferred over to Fresno State for the Women's
Resource Center, but I think they changed it now; I think it's called something else.
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>> Cross Cultural Center?
>> Is that the Thomas Building [phonetic]?
>> Yes; I know what you're talking about. [Laughs]
>> Yes; so I was in that. And then -- I mean, I did a lot of stuff too. I was volunteering for the Big Sisters Club. I think a
lot of -- I think being involved in the community and at school also helped me to keep going. I think it's all about
exposure, you know, the more you get yourself out there, the more you have like more support, you know, positive
vibes. And so I think a lot of that helped out a lot.
>> Okay, great. And so the last part is I'm just going to ask you is this something you're interested and if this would -do you think, in your opinion, it would help more people graduate. Do you think if we had smaller classes, that will
helpful for people to graduate?
>> I would say yes and no ->> Yes. Because -- well -- well yes guess because, you know, maybe it's more intimate, and they might feel more
comfortable. No; because I feel like well, if, you know, they -- if they have a smaller classroom, students may not have
like the full potential to grow because, you know, they're still comfortable, and maybe they need to be exposed to, you
know, bigger classrooms, more people, I don't know. So I mean, I would -- I'm in-between. It might work, it might not,
so yes.
>> What about co-ethnic professors, did you want more Asian professors or specifically Hmong professors?
>> That one's another -- yes so maybe like for some classes, yes, they should have them, just because it's good for
students, you know, being Hmong to -- for me if I was a Hmong instructor like, "Hey, you know, they need it, or you
know, "I want to be like them," or you know, "If they can do it, I can do it," right?
>> Right
>> They may be able to -- you know, I've love to see students be like, "Yes, you know, if they can do it, I can do it."
And then no just because sometimes it's good to have different professors that are a different race.
>> Okay.
>> You know, so they can be more comfortable in speaking up, not just to a Hmong professor, right, they need to be
able to speak up to the professor whether they're white, or Mexican, or Black. So I'm in-between; but I think I'm
probably more towards yes just because just for that exposure they can see that, you know, "Hey, they look like me and
they made it."
>> What about classmates, would you want -- and for instance, UC Irvine is 70% Asian, and actually at Fresno State,
50% of the Asians are Hmong. So would you want more co-ethnic classmates, like all-Asian or -- [laughs]
>> Yes; see I don't know [inaudible] so I'm kind of in the middle again I guess in there. So yes just because, you know,
they see someone who looks like them or they can connect with someone who understands them, or comes from the
same background from them. So it would be easier for them to make friends with. And it's good to have friends in
college to kind of help support you along the way, right ->> Right.
>> During your academic journey, and then --
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>> Definitely.
>> Not just because, again, you know, that means they won't be exposed to other students, other cultures, and so I don't
know, [inaudible], so I'm kind of in the middle again.
>> Okay. You know, specifically, you talked about how you felt you had more access in your general college versus
Fresno State. If you had a million dollars, what college success workshops would you want at Fresno State that we can
provide you?
>> Let's see.
>> I mean, do you want a 24-hour -- I mean, or do you want like an always open counselor or something, or do you
want to -- like what do you think ->> Well, now that -- you know, [inaudible] I'm trying to think back, you know, another thing that -- sorry -- that kind of
-- you know, probably more support was support because I think at Delta City College, they had a computer lab. And
back when I went to Fresno State, they didn't have that many computers, and they didn't really have a lot of opportunity
to check out, versus at a community college, they have a huge like computer lab, and ->> Really.
>> Lots of computers desktops, yes, for students. And I think that was one thing that helped me too because I didn't
have a computer at that time and, you know. So that really helped out. And then when I came to Fresno State, they didn't
have a lot of that, so [inaudible] -- because I know community college, they do get funded more. But then -- I mean,
now at Fresno State they're starting to have computers and laptops, so I mean, I guess that's okay now. But so I'm trying
to think -- well, let's see. I feel like when I was a student, I felt like so many things, but now that, you know, I'm really
not there now it's kind of hard to think of what I would ->> Oh, no, that's -- you've given so much information; thank you. [Laughs]
>> Like I can't remember.
>> The last question is -- so we -- you I guess would be considered the second generation, and if we are telling like little
12-year-olds now, we have around six more years until third generation coming into Fresno State, and, you know, they
might listen to your story -- your success story, what advice can you give them to keep them in school and like kind of
show them the value of education to keep going and not drop out? [Laughs]
>> You know, I would tell them, you know, to not give up or to find a mentor. I mean, for me, I mean, like I said, I had
some [inaudible], but I feel like if they had a mentor that would provide additional support to help them keep going,
because sometimes, you know, they need an extra boost. Find a mentor, connect, network.
>> Network?
>> You know, get to know your professors.
>> Okay.
>> Be involved at school and in the community.
>> Be involved, okay.
>> And just, you know, about why you -- I guess, you know, why you even started to even go to college. You know,
there had to be a reason, and there's probably a goal, and just don't forget about it, you know, and -
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>> Yes. Great.
>> I feel like there's so much to say but I can't think of them now. [Laughter]
>> No; you've given so much, thank you. Do you have any advice to males who might be struggling to finish? Or
females who are struggling to finish in terms of like a gender?
>> Let's see. Well, I mean, [inaudible] there is a -- you know, there's more women than, you know, males going to
college.
>> Correct.
>> And I think for those males, I would say, you know, that we're here, you know, they don't have to be, you know, the
breadwinners all the time. You know, they can be something for themselves; because I kind of feel like a lot of times and then, you know, saying this in regards to the Hmong community, because they have so much responsibility that they
just have to work and bring in money.
>> Yes.
>> So I feel like, you know, it's a case for them to, you know, go to school and it's okay to have their wives, you know,
[inaudible]. I kind of feel like sometimes there's a stigma that, you know, if -- for in the Hmong culture, of course, you
know, that if women go and get their degrees that their wives are going to leave them, or that they're going to feel
ashamed or embarrassed. And I just want them to know that, you know, it's okay, that they get help, and I think they
should go to school and, you know, they can provide so much more then instead of just dropping out or just working.
And I feel like, you know, the men have as much potential as we women, we do. And so I just feel like, you know,
they're -- they just need I guess support, and from their families and friends, or whoever it may be. And I was thinking -or I would tell them to just keep going, I guess.
>> Great advice; that's excellent advice. Okay, great. And actually that concludes the interview. So I'm going to turn off
this recorder.
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